vB Easy Archive - Help with plans/phones.

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Help with plans/phones.
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Posted by: RivaCom

I had a few up in the air questions, I'm thinking about getting my first pda phone though cingular.

First, I have been looking around at the different phones, Cingular 8125 first caught my eye, and with being able to get it for 79.99 AR would be steal(from amazon). I understand this is with the 40 dollars a month though. But recently I have seen everyone eyeing the 8525 as well as it's brother tytn. Now I looked at both of them and they do look great. My biggest problem is price, I'm really not suited to spend up to 600 for tytn and its camera(although I would love this for skype.) or even 400 with 2 year contract for the 8525. I guess im wondering if theres anyway to break these down even lower? or if they will drop anytime soon? Or will I feel left out if I settle for the 8125? I understand it is about double the process power, but coming from a motorola rokr, will I even notice?

Second question, The plans are another thing that bug me, 40 a month for data? I have seen some people say upgrade to media max for 20 a month to get unlimited internet and it worked fine on their pda. Although this would be great my concern is, what are the downsides to this compared to the full pda 40 a month internet plan? One thing that kinda concerns me is that they count messenger programs as text messages, if you get the media max, is there a way change it to use the internet for the messengers instead of eating up text messages? I don't mind going to the 40 buck plan if need be, I am little tight on cash so cheaper is better for me.

Also kinda a quick question for anyone who uses skype on these phones. Can the front camera be used in video conferencing?

Posted by: RivaCom

Noone? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Posted by: RF9

I can't answer all of your questions, but there is no down side to using Media Max instead of the PDA plan. Media Max is a better value since it comes with 200 text/MMS messages. Messenger programs aren't treated differently between PDA plan and media max. The PDA plan just doesn't include any text/MMS messages, so you'd have to buy "Messaging starter" for $5 and add it to your $40 PDA data plan ($45) vs Media Max 200 which is essentially the same thing for only $20.

Messaging is only counted toward your SMS/MMS messages if you use the feature that way. If you use Yahoo messenger or AOL IM forwarding through the phone's text message application, you'll be burning those 200 messages.
if you use an application such as Verichat or comparable program that claims to do all of it's work over data (GPRS/EDGE) then you won't use ANY of those SMS/MMS unless you use the features those programs include ot forward messages this way when you lose your data connection.

Those 200 "Messages" are part of the SMS (short messge system) or MMS "Multimedia message system" that's built in to the phone network. Ti was basically a text pager replacement system put in years ago (kind of a dated system) that allows for text of 160 characters in a single instant message to the phone.

IM programs like Verichat work just like an IM program on your PC where they establish a data Internet connection and do it all that way. Since you have unlimited data you're better off this way.

I personally do not use verichat. i use the Text messaging ( see http://mobile.yahoo.com/ ) because I do VERY LITTLE text messaging (about 200/month.) and I don't mind paying if I go over a little. But if I did a lot, then I'd certainly keep Verichat or similar logged in for IMing.

The difference in the data plan portion of Media Max vs. PDA plan is 1 thing.
The PDA plan includes a data connection over one of the two Cingular "access points" called wap.cingular and isp.cingular. Details you otherwise wouldn't normally need to know.
The Media Max plan includes data over ONLY wap.cingular.

So what's the difference? Well as far as internet connectivity, speed, etc.... NOTHING. They both perform the same.
wap.cingular is a "private ip address" like the 192.168.0.x IP address that your linksys or netgear router at home gives you.
isp.cingular is a real "Public IP address" like the IP address your cable/dsl ISP assigns to your router's "WAN" or uplink port to the Internet.
These routers are a way to share 1 IP address with many computers, that's one reason you have a router at home like this (the other for a firewall.)
wap.cingular is like being inside or behind that router where it access the internet through the router.
isp.cingular is like being the router (or outside the router) and being directly on the internet.

As you know, you can do and access all of the same things from inside your router as you can from outside, so there's no downside to being on wap.cingular.

The one other difference is DNS servers. Search for other threads that discuss using "OpenDNS" as a configuration to speed up DSN resolution on wap.cingular. But that's an easy thing to overcome. the DNS servers on wap.cingular are just overloaded.
Also, disable the "Proxy" setting that's set by default as it slows things down. But you'll have to enable the proxy to get to Cingular's MediaNet home site (http://home ) Otherwise leave it disabled.

The only reason you need isp.cingular is if you VPN in to windows machines using Windows PPTP VPN client. Port translated routers often don't support this which is the case of wap.cingular.
That's it, that's the difference.

By the way an 8125 comes pre-configured to use wap.cingular anyhow. You'd only use isp.cingular if you manually entered the settings. So even if you got the PDA plan, you'd be connecting to the Internet through the identical means as media Max.
I hope this is all clear as MUD.

So get the Media Max plan and save yourself $300/year. Then go put that money toward and 8525.
Is the 8525 worth the wait? I think so.
The 8525 has "3G" data which is 400-700kbps vs. EDGE only on the 8125 which is 80-150kbs. That's a huge difference in speed.
And the 3G data speed comes at no additional cost. The Media Max plan will get you that. I've tested 3G speeds on wap.cingular as well as isp.cingular and I see IDENTICAL speeds. I can't garuntee it'll always be that way, but you're better off taking a slight hit on speed for the savings if that was to ever be the case.
**This assumes 3G is available where you live. Otherwise it may be some time before you can enjoy this feature.

The catch is that you can't get a mail in rebate with MEdia Max. The Mail in rebate requires the $40 PDA plan. But your savings over the long run outweighs the $50 rebate. But if you buy through amazon, the Cingular mail in rebate doesn't apply. Make sure the $75 amazon price doesnt' require you to have the $40 PDA plan.
If it does, get the PDA plan for the required period, then switch to Media max once you've fulfilled the requirement.

Other reasons for the 8525:
1) 8525 has "Start" and "OK" buttons, the 8125 does not. You have to install a hack called "smartskey" to SORT OF get this functionality.
2) 8525 keyboard is laid out better.
And as you know: 8525 is much faster, PTT, bluetooth 2.0
Bluetooth 2.0 only makes a difference if you're using a laptop to connect through the phone as a modem. Bluetooth 2.0 is faster, if your laptop supports 2.0 even. So it probably makes no difference.

but I have an 8125 and it's by no means shabby. If you're on a budget, then it's a great value and I wouldn't by any means discourage it.
If you do, however, install Smartskey (with OmapClock) as one of your first orders of business.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=256525 (Smartskey)
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=255887 (OmapClock)

I have an 8125. I decided I'm getting the Treo 750 when it comes out. I had a Treo 650 and 600 before and I prefer it's form factor to the 8125/8525/TyTn. But that's just a matter of preference.
I also hear the Treo will be $300 after mail in rebates (again will require $40 PDA) but I personally can't believe it'll be that cheap. I think it'll be AT LEAST $400 after rebates with 2-year commitment. But I have no data to support this except experience.

Posted by: cshehan

I guess the big question is are you in a 3G area? If not, you might as well get the 8125 for now. Once the 8525 has been out for a while you will see the price on them drop, and I would guess that in about 6 months there will be a new toy that everybody wants anyway. At that point you could probably pick up a TyTN or 8525 on Ebay for a song. I have the 8125, and if it had 3G I wouldn't even bother looking at the 8525 or the TyTN. Unfortunately I am not happy with Edge speeds, and 3G is available in my area so I am patiently waiting for the 8525.