vB Easy Archive - Did policy change regarding PDA's?

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Did policy change regarding PDA's?
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Posted by: johnmsteiner

A long time customer of mine purchased a blackjack from a COR store nearby (we ran out) on an upgrade. He did NOT sign up for the PDA connect Unlimited plan, but rather they sold him on the MEdia Max 200 Plan with 200 messages, Unlimited Data and Unlimited Cingular Video. Is this allowed? We would sell a heck of a lot more PDA's if that were the case! I'm not talking about SmartPhones either, I'm talking PDA's like the BlackJack or Treo 650. Something tells me this rep did something he shouldn't have done... I did advise the customer to monitor his account closely, because I've seen customers get PPU charges when using a PDA on an Unlimited Data plan that wasn't PDA Connect Unlimited.

I just wanted everyone's thoughts on this, and I wanted to know if the policy has been a bit loosened in an effort to sell more PDA's and to get ARPU through the roof. I couild definately see it happening, but at the same time I know Cingy likes those 39.99 PDA plans. Isn't that also why they gave the option to add Messaging to the PDA plan? Anyway I'd love to have your thoughts on the subject. Thanks.

Posted by: SoCal91302

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnmsteiner

A long time customer of mine purchased a blackjack from a COR store nearby (we ran out) on an upgrade. He did NOT sign up for the PDA connect Unlimited plan, but rather they sold him on the MEdia Max 200 Plan with 200 messages, Unlimited Data and Unlimited Cingular Video. Is this allowed? We would sell a heck of a lot more PDA's if that were the case! I'm not talking about SmartPhones either, I'm talking PDA's like the BlackJack or Treo 650. Something tells me this rep did something he shouldn't have done... I did advise the customer to monitor his account closely, because I've seen customers get PPU charges when using a PDA on an Unlimited Data plan that wasn't PDA Connect Unlimited.

I just wanted everyone's thoughts on this, and I wanted to know if the policy has been a bit loosened in an effort to sell more PDA's and to get ARPU through the roof. I couild definately see it happening, but at the same time I know Cingy likes those 39.99 PDA plans. Isn't that also why they gave the option to add Messaging to the PDA plan? Anyway I'd love to have your thoughts on the subject. Thanks.

You will get mixed responses on this subject as always. There will be those that have seen the overages charged to a customer firsthand, and those that have ued something other than PDA connect and go away with it for some reason. You did the right thing by warning the customer.

Posted by: Infornography

lol the BlackJack is technically supposed to be sold on the SmartPhone data plan anyway, but you CAN pass it off as a PDA because of it's looks. lol and if anyone disagree's with me, just read the manual or look in the phone itself. It's Windows Mobile Smartphone Edition.

Posted by: Superpimp

Also a media net plan really doesn't have the richness of an HTML page. I had a customer with an 8125 and she had a media package on her account and when I used to trouble shoot her phone I couldn't see any pictures on any website I tried to pull up

Posted by: johnmsteiner

I got this e-mail today from my RAE that clarifies things a bit... infact makes it 100% obvious what plan they need.

How to get the $100 rebate on the Blackjack:
- Sell a qualified Unlimited Data plan: (Reminder a customer will not be able to access CV w/o a data plan)

PDA Max

• Provides unlimited web & email

• Includes 1000 messages (IM, SMS & MMS)

• Free Xpress Mail

PDA Connect Unlimited

• Provides unlimited web & email

• Free Xpress Mail

Data Connect Unlimited

• Provides the ability to use the device as a modem

• Provides unlimited web & email

OR

- Sell the $19.99 Messaging Extreme feature

DO NOT SELL MEDIA NET OR SMARTPHONE PLANS ON THIS DEVICE

Blackjack Equipment Brief posted to CSP
Learning Edge class on Blackjack device: PRD107
Learning Edge class on Windows Mobile operating system: PRD 071

Posted by: ivwshane

Yeah it was covered on csp as well as in the blackjack thread in the cingular pda forum.

PDA connect plans or message extreme plans ONLY!

Posted by: audiovoxx

i think thats stupid, its a smart phone!!
im just waiting for someone to sue cingy for this

Posted by: Mattb2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infornography

lol the BlackJack is technically supposed to be sold on the SmartPhone data plan anyway, but you CAN pass it off as a PDA because of it's looks. lol and if anyone disagree's with me, just read the manual or look in the phone itself. It's Windows Mobile Smartphone Edition.

I would like to disagree with you, althought it is windows smartphone, if you look at cingulars internal information (training guides, Device spec sheets, and internal memos) you will see that it is a pda, i can only hope that you account gets audited next....

Posted by: Jayden0606

I have come to a conclusion. Cingular calls almost every phone a PDA that is in the PDA/Smartphone section, except the Cingular 2125/3125, Treo 650, and Nokia 6682/9300. You can find this right on their web page online. For the Treos, you can also go on palm and it says smartphone, which I don't know why as it does everything a PDA can do and a lot more than most. The only device that there seems to be a discrepancy with is the Samsung "Blackjack" i607 as on the website it says PDA and on phonescoop it says smartphone. I originally felt is was a smart phone myself.

What is the difference between the Blackjack and 2125? They both do the same don't they. So why wouldnt the Blackjack be called a smartphone?

Posted by: holaDude

Quote:

Originally Posted by audiovoxx

i think thats stupid, its a smart phone!!
im just waiting for someone to sue cingy for this

Pray tell how they will get sued for calling it a pd and not a smartphone? Is there confusion here and there with employees? Yes, but not a sue able offense.

Posted by: oneaznriceboi

Quote:

Originally Posted by holaDude

Pray tell how they will get sued for calling it a pd and not a smartphone? Is there confusion here and there with employees? Yes, but not a sue able offense.

Trump sued a tabloid for $5billion for calling him a millionare...
similar concept

Posted by: cingtd

Does that mean that every phone that is not a "Smartphone" is actually a "Stupid phone"???

Posted by: Superpimp

Quote:

Originally Posted by cingtd

Does that mean that every phone that is not a "Smartphone" is actually a "Stupid phone"???

Stupid is un PC it's an educationaly challenged device

Posted by: SoCal91302

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jayden0606

I have come to a conclusion. Cingular calls almost every phone a PDA that is in the PDA/Smartphone section, except the Cingular 2125/3125, Treo 650, and Nokia 6682/9300. You can find this right on their web page online. For the Treos, you can also go on palm and it says smartphone, which I don't know why as it does everything a PDA can do and a lot more than most. The only device that there seems to be a discrepancy with is the Samsung "Blackjack" i607 as on the website it says PDA and on phonescoop it says smartphone. I originally felt is was a smart phone myself.

What is the difference between the Blackjack and 2125? They both do the same don't they. So why wouldnt the Blackjack be called a smartphone?

The blackberry does even less than a 2125.. so does that mean it's data service should be cheaper?

It was my understanding that smartphones do not have full qwerty keyboards, which is why the blackjack does not qualify. For what it's worth, Palm refers to the treo as a smartphone as well.

Posted by: MWPhoneGuy

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoCal91302

It was my understanding that smartphones do not have full qwerty keyboards, which is why the blackjack does not qualify. For what it's worth, Palm refers to the treo as a smartphone as well.

We came to that conclusion also. Smartphones don't have full Qwerty keyboards. Not sure about the Palm though. I've always sold that on PDA plans.

Posted by: CingularWRX

Only phones that can go on smartphone connect are the 3125 and the 2125 (current phones anyway)

You all were correct in saying its due to the qwerty keyboard.
Pretty dumb, considering it actually uses the Smartphone version of windows mobile, but that doesn't seem to matter.

Posted by: rblover69

yea, its a smartphone appartantly cingular is trying to market it as a pda. But anyone who uses a pda can ultimetly see the limitations .And even the software version is a smartphone version. Im confused to as why, they chose to put pda plans as the feature codes.

Posted by: spiritofseth

Yes it is terrible, Who does Cingular think they are, it is obviously a smartphone, period. it is also a PDA! they both mean the same thing.

its foolish how they can play their customers as suckers, its the same internet and either of the 3 plans provide the same speed. my RAE told me that revenue assurace will remove all blackjacks found without PDA connect plans and inform the customer that they will be switched to PDA connect. also they will NOT recieve a rebate if they are not found on PDA connect.

remember cingular is always trying to fit the customer best.

for the idiots we have PDA connect for 39.99 a month after an amazing 5 dollar voice plan discount!
it provides access to the internet freely! (unless u want directpush gotta pay for that)

For those who go by what the box says we have smartphone connect for 19.99 after an amazing 5 dollar voice plan discount!

and for those sneaky folks we have the Media Max bundle with unlimited internet and text messaging for 19.99 !
(to be fair their is some (very little) diff between the media max plans n the others)

well lets see if you want ur 100 dollar rebate you can pay and additional 480 dollars over the course of your 2 year agreement with the PDA connect plan!

dont forget to get insurance cause,,, oh wait our 5 dollar a month insurance doesnt cover the blackjack,,, shoot I hope it doesnt break on day 366 cause ur outta warranty and not fully qualified for an upgrade yet. but well we can make an exception, but dont tell my Manager cause were not supposed to do that but I was just looking at ur ARPU and it looks like u chose the Raped in the,,, I mean PDA connect plan. thats great now I can get yah another 2 year agreement and you can pay the one year price
hooorah !!!

go cingular, go team!

Posted by: cingtd

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiritofseth

dont forget to get insurance cause,,, oh wait our 5 dollar a month insurance doesnt cover the blackjack,,, shoot I hope it doesnt break on day 366 cause ur outta warranty and not fully qualified for an upgrade yet. but well we can make an exception, but dont tell my Manager cause were not supposed to do that but I was just looking at ur ARPU and it looks like u chose the Raped in the,,, I mean PDA connect plan. thats great now I can get yah another 2 year agreement and you can pay the one year price
hooorah !!!

And there are no other ways to insure a cell phone other than Cingular?? PLEASE SPARE US. Please grow up and quit whining.

Posted by: spiritofseth

Buddy the deductible on other insurance plans is usually too high to justify its purchase.

also other carriers are able to offer insurance for their PDA devices. an example would be the MDA at tmobile. I know our insurance company is supposed to be changing the way they do business soon. hopefully they will start carrying insurance on PDAs. I have to cringe when I see a wet 8125, and I tear up a little when I see a 3125 with a cracked screen. I know the customer feels worse than I do though.

and I'm not whining, its true that 2 year contracts which exist to subsidies phones are very unfair when the manufacturer wont have faith that they are free of defects for more than 1 year.
2 years is stretching it way to far for the consumer.

Posted by: Jayden0606

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiritofseth

Buddy the deductible on other insurance plans is usually too high to justify its purchase.

also other carriers are able to offer insurance for their PDA devices. an example would be the MDA at tmobile. I know our insurance company is supposed to be changing the way they do business soon. hopefully they will start carrying insurance on PDAs. I have to cringe when I see a wet 8125, and I tear up a little when I see a 3125 with a cracked screen. I know the customer feels worse than I do though.

and I'm not whining, its true that 2 year contracts which exist to subsidies phones are very unfair when the manufacturer wont have faith that they are free of defects for more than 1 year.
2 years is stretching it way to far for the consumer.

I had made a post a while back before we switched to 4.99/mo. I emailed a rep and he informed me that they are working out a deal. The reason why t-mobile and others cover PDA is because their PDA subscribers all put together (minus verizon) probably total if that the amount of subscribers Cingular has. If 30% of all phone users will either full under the broken, lost or stolen category, the insurance company will be losing out a lot. They plan on having it like pink T where they have a higher deductible.

Posted by: ivwshane

I had a customer who insured her pda phone through here home insurance and the deductible was around $5.

Manufactures could easily equip their phones with two year warranties, the problem is most issues are related to how the phone is cared for. How hard would it be to differentiate between normal wear and tear and true manufacture defects?

Posted by: cingtd

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiritofseth

Check out www.mobileprotech.com for an alternate method to insure a PDA or any other phone.

Posted by: spiritofseth

Yes This is good, if anybody knows where to find insurance for PDAs at a resonable price please post the information. its a serious injustice to not have anything to recommend to my customers.

EDIT

Actually post over here

Alternate Insurance Thread

Posted by: spiritofseth

Most home insyrance policies have a 500 dollar or higher Deductable.
5 dollars sounds almost to good to be true, or high in the annual premiums

Posted by: SoCal91302

Quote:

Originally Posted by rblover69

yea, its a smartphone appartantly cingular is trying to market it as a pda. But anyone who uses a pda can ultimetly see the limitations .And even the software version is a smartphone version. Im confused to as why, they chose to put pda plans as the feature codes.

So they can change it in 5 1/2 months and reps can change it to the lower plan, thus charging the original rep back and avoiding paying them commision. Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

Posted by: spiritofseth

So they can change it in 5 1/2 months and reps can change it to the lower plan, thus charging the original rep back and avoiding paying them commision. Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

This is a huge part of the problem.

Posted by: rblover69

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiritofseth

Yes it is terrible, Who does Cingular think they are, it is obviously a smartphone, period. it is also a PDA! they both mean the same thing.

its foolish how they can play their customers as suckers, its the same internet and either of the 3 plans provide the same speed. my RAE told me that revenue assurace will remove all blackjacks found without PDA connect plans and inform the customer that they will be switched to PDA connect. also they will NOT recieve a rebate if they are not found on PDA connect.

remember cingular is always trying to fit the customer best.

for the idiots we have PDA connect for 39.99 a month after an amazing 5 dollar voice plan discount!
it provides access to the internet freely! (unless u want directpush gotta pay for that)

For those who go by what the box says we have smartphone connect for 19.99 after an amazing 5 dollar voice plan discount!

and for those sneaky folks we have the Media Max bundle with unlimited internet and text messaging for 19.99 !
(to be fair their is some (very little) diff between the media max plans n the others)

well lets see if you want ur 100 dollar rebate you can pay and additional 480 dollars over the course of your 2 year agreement with the PDA connect plan!

dont forget to get insurance cause,,, oh wait our 5 dollar a month insurance doesnt cover the blackjack,,, shoot I hope it doesnt break on day 366 cause ur outta warranty and not fully qualified for an upgrade yet. but well we can make an exception, but dont tell my Manager cause were not supposed to do that but I was just looking at ur ARPU and it looks like u chose the Raped in the,,, I mean PDA connect plan. thats great now I can get yah another 2 year agreement and you can pay the one year price
hooorah !!!

go cingular, go team!

Correction the black jack is a Smartphone not a pocket PC. Yes the word pda can be used to descirbe both devices

Posted by: johnmsteiner

The BlackJack is a PDA. It's a Smartphone. It's whatever they want to call it. Either way, they choose to charge $39.99 for it and that is just how it is going to be.

I know it's been argued before, but a phone with a Full QWERTY keyboard is considered to be in the PDA connect plan, not the smart phone. Also the fact that it has a much larger screen than a standard smartphone, allowing it to view FULL webpages (meaning it loads MORE DATA) is another reason to throw it into the PDA catagory. Do I personally like the Windows Mobile 5 they have on the BJ? Not at all. It is crap compared to the 8125 I'm used to using. Either way, they will charge what they charge and everyone just needs to get over it. This might seem hard to believe, but Cingular actually DOES have logical reasoning behind the choices they make, even though they aren't always apparent to the untrained eye.

Posted by: Superpimp

^^^^ Exactly

Posted by: gregsmith59

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnmsteiner

.... Also the fact that it has a much larger screen than a standard smartphone, allowing it to view FULL webpages (meaning it loads MORE DATA) is another reason to throw it into the PDA catagory. ...

It's probably more accurate to say the larger screen lets the user view more data at once. If the full page is downloaded by another phone with a smaller screen the user may need to scroll around to see the whole page, but the data could already be downloaded into memory.

Of course, for your logic to make sense they would have to start categorizing phones by their screen size - which seems highly unlikely.

Posted by: rblover69

im not arguing to what the pricing is im stating what the device is vrs the termonolgy i work for cingular, the pda connect to me means squat i have 3 lines free of charge and the 39.99 to me means more money in my pocket. So theres no bickering from me , im just here to clarify the smartphone idendity, ..clearly everything that has a pim function with a keyboard can be labeled a pda.