vB Easy Archive - 8525: Does this phone suck or is it just me?

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8525: Does this phone suck or is it just me?
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Posted by: GSMspot

First of all, let me say that I'm not trying to pick a fight by calling anyone's baby "ugly." Let me make it up to anyone who might be offended by saying how much I like the total *capabilities* of this phone -- it's the *usability* that seems to be the problem.

I'm really just wanting to find out if I'm the only one who is underwhelmed by the 8525 and to have an informed discussion about the product. I'd also like to know if there is a problem with my phone, although that seems unlikely. So no flames, just feedback, please.

My last phone was an imate Jam running WM2003 (I had the Pocket PC Techs memory upgrade, which made a huge difference). That was my first Pocket PC phone and my first convergent device. Before that, I had several non-phone Palm Pilots. I'm not patriotic about any particular operating system or brands, I just want a convenient convergence device.

My first complaint is that the 8525 is unbelievably SLOW. I thought my iMate Jam took a little long too long to get stuff done, but it was bearable. I can't believe how much waiting around I get to do with the 8525. For example, it takes a full 10 seconds (sometimes 15) to open my Tasks list. The problem seems to be compounded by an aparent shortcoming in WM5 in that every time you open up Tasks, it gives you the full list of all Tasks in all Categories, not just the Category you were last looking at (like WM2003 did). That's a bigger amount of data to bring up, so it takes longer. It also means that once Tasks are open, you have to click Menu->Filter->Category and then wait another 5 seconds for the Task list to rewrite, so you have to plan on spending about 20 seconds just to see what you need to get done for work today.

I use Tasks a lot, so it's the most annoying example of slow device speed to me, but the problem is pervasive. The 8525 is slow to wake up, slow to switch between programs, slow to move into landscape mode when I slide the keyboard out. It also takes longer to reboot than my old phone, and that's a problem because I'm now finding that I have to reboot once or twice a day just to keep it running (especially vis a vis ActiverSync). All this adds up, and it just takes a long time to do anything on this phone based on brute speed. Is the 8525 simply equipped with too little memory?

Secondly, usability on this device seems pretty damn poor, and that slows me down, too. I am new to WM5, so let me confess that. The additional hard buttons on the outside are really nice, and I'm not talking about the slider keyboard, which is just a choice. The thumb wheel is an improvement overall, as well. But in the end, usability -- the ease of navigation and operation -- of this device has taken a step backward. It seems mostly like it's a Microsoft WM5 problem.

There is a lack of standardization across programs about what effect the thumb wheel and 4-way thumb pad will do. Sometimes you have to use the thumbwheel; other times you can't and have to use the pad. The thumbwheel really helps in a lot of areas, but sometimes it's a liability. And, you can't count on the pad doing what you think it should do for you, either. On at least some applications (Calendar comes to mind) when you slide the keyboard open and the screen goes into landscape mode the thumb pad stays in portrait mode. With the exception of the Connections Manager (nice), everything seems to take more clicks to accomplish than ever before.

I was very excited about the advent of this phone, but I'm feeling really let down at this point. Am I the only one?

Posted by: berdinkerdickle

I like the 8525.
But it's my first WM.
So I have only POS Treo 650 to compare it with.
So unlike some who seem to dislike moving from palm,
I'm content.

Posted by: bubbameat

Wow, I must be coming from the depths of hell if the 8525 is slow. I had the 8125 and it was slow. The 8525 is much faster. I love everything about it over the 8125. I'm thinking it is very good you never had the 8125. I guess everything is relative.

I have had no issue thus far with speed on the 8525.

Posted by: kamikazichaser

It's just you. Yes, I agree about the difference between the "speed", as you call it, difference between the 8525 and the Super Jam (I have one, too). I really wish the 8525 had 128MB RAM, but to say that the phone sucks because you need to learn how to use it to its fullest is a bit premature.

You'll learn the shortcomings and the advantages soon enough. I too use tasks a bunch (and email, and calender, and ...) and I'm not experiencing the problem you're describing, so you might dig around for what the real problem is. Perhaps you really do have too much in your tasks list and it's slow, but I really, really doubt it. Open up tasks and check your memory usage. Is it completely used up? If not, then the problem likely lay elsewhere.

Posted by: TheFuzz

I came from the 8125 and I can tell you unequivocally, this phone is fast. It is far faster even when I overclocked my 8125 to 240mhz. Usability on this phone as compared to the 8125 is much improved. It does take some adjusting to the fact you can actually use it one-handed. I find myself grabbing for the stylus out of habit, forgetting I really don't need it for most tasks.

As a pure phone, the 8525 is superb. The call clarity, and voice dialing with MS VC is excellent. Just take some time, get used to it, it is a great device.

Posted by: txschafers

I have used a variety of phones with one of them being the 8125 and I can tell you the 8525 is MUCH faster and more stable. I love WM5 and am very content with this new phone.

Posted by: Wrangler3383

Sounds like theres something wrong with your phone;. Tasks shouldnt take that long to open. Mine takes maybe a second. Do a warranty exchange through XBM.

Posted by: ASimpleFarmer

Quote:

Originally Posted by kamikazichaser

It's just you. Yes, I agree about the difference between the "speed", as you call it, difference between the 8525 and the Super Jam (I have one, too). I really wish the 8525 had 128MB RAM, but to say that the phone sucks because you need to learn how to use it to its fullest is a bit premature.

You'll learn the shortcomings and the advantages soon enough. I too use tasks a bunch (and email, and calender, and ...) and I'm not experiencing the problem you're describing, so you might dig around for what the real problem is. Perhaps you really do have too much in your tasks list and it's slow, but I really, really doubt it. Open up tasks and check your memory usage. Is it completely used up? If not, then the problem likely lay elsewhere.

i too say check out your memory usage. maybe you have too many things open!

Posted by: conqoror

I love this phone. My menu's open instantly and i have a few today screen apps running. Try a clear storage(will wipe everything). If it's still slow it's something with that phone, swap it out for a new one.

Posted by: gravejoker

It could be the usual "CLOSE/X" problem ...

Posted by: jscro

I've purchased and returned two Windows Mobile devices in less than 24 hours because I hated them so much. I've had this device for about a week and I'm in love. I've found it very fast, even with alot of things running at once and the best part is the phone is actually good.

Posted by: berdinkerdickle

Quote:

Originally Posted by jscro

...clip...
and the best part is the phone is actually good.

Yea,
I feel the phone is the best part.
Great Reception, and clarity.

Posted by: pkazmier

I'm considering purchasing an 8525 as I'm looking for an integrated PDA and phone; however, I'm now concerned regarding the issue with a large task list. I use my outlook tasks extensively (I'm a following of "Getting Things Done") and its not at all uncommon to have 200 or so tasks. These are all categorized but if the delay in viewing and filtering is approximately 15 secs, this would be a major problem for me. Can anyone else confirm the slowness reported here? Is the 8525 not going to be sufficient for my needs? Would really appreciate feedback from someone that actually uses a large number of tasks on a regular basis.

Posted by: eagle1

It seems as though it may be your phone or the software on your phone. I have maybe 50 or so tasks and mine opens in a second or two. Switching to landscape a second or less.

What software do you have loaded and what versions? Are they the most current versions? Do you have an app that actually closes the apps or do you leave many open?

Sorry you are disappointed with your Hermes device.

Posted by: DaveTreo300600

Quote:

Originally Posted by berdinkerdickle

Great Reception, and clarity.

This is a good thread. But as I point of information for me (or anyone) to compare to the Blackjack, does anyone have any comments on how the 8525's reception compares to the BJ?

Posted by: FutureXec

I can tell you why your tasks are taking that long to load.

Is there any reason you need to have completed tasks on hand? Atleast for me, once I complete a task Im done looking at it so I dont mind not being able to reference it in the future...so in your outlook sync settings delete your completed tasks and choose not to sync those cause listing hundreds and hundreds of completed tasks will really slow down your tasks app (and exhibit the behavior you described)

Posted by: sunil23

Agreed...I had about 800 completed tasks and 20 active and it would on the order of 10 secs to load tasks. After deleting the completed tasks, the application starts up instantly. Time to load is definitely a function of how many total tasks it has to process...

Quote:

Originally Posted by FutureXec

I can tell you why your tasks are taking that long to load.

Is there any reason you need to have completed tasks on hand? Atleast for me, once I complete a task Im done looking at it so I dont mind not being able to reference it in the future...so in your outlook sync settings delete your completed tasks and choose not to sync those cause listing hundreds and hundreds of completed tasks will really slow down your tasks app (and exhibit the behavior you described)

Posted by: conqoror

I don't know if deleting completed tasks would do much, but it's worth a try. I have 3000+ emails in my outlook box and it opens up messages quick, probably less than 1 sec

Posted by: strikeIII

make sure all apps. are closed in the back ground and use some memory managing tool to free up RAM and temp space...this will speed up your device...if not then you may have some issues with the device itself because even switching to landscape when opening the keypad has 0 delay for me and i am a power user and use lots of memory hog apps....everything opens up with very little delay the only application that seems to take some time to open is the camera app which i don't use that often....i've had a lot of HTC products in the past and this is by far one of the best "all-in-one" devices HTC has made thats meets all needs...i like to think of this phone as an updated PDA2K(SX66)...

Posted by: Playstation3

I also like my 8525. Outlook Mobile automatically configures your email accounts based on your email address, which is also a feature in Office 2007. Needless to say, that's VERY convenient. Sliding the keyboard out instantaneously gives me the portrait view. It takes one second. And I agree with everyone who says the phone is great. RF is excellent and so is call quality and clarity. One-hand operation is also possible if you want to just dial a number using the touchscreen. The keys are very well placed, both on the touchscreen and on the keyboard. There is also a certain logic that Windows Mobile 5 follows, although I found Outlook Mobile to be in an odd place. I haven't even touched the manual yet and I'm already doing a lot with it. I still need an IM client and a call/voice recorder. The camera is also stunning, by the way.

Posted by: sampy111

My 8525 has been responding slow lately. It takes like 10 -15 seconds to do anything. Just to view my text messages takes about 20 seconds. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to fix this????

I made sure all other programs aren't running.
The only app that I've installed is PhotoContacts Pro.

Someone mentioned the usual "CLOSE/X" problem ... What is that?

Posted by: That70sGAdawg

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveTreo300600

This is a good thread. But as I point of information for me (or anyone) to compare to the Blackjack, does anyone have any comments on how the 8525's reception compares to the BJ?

3G Reception is better on the Blackjack, as I have both a 8525 and Blackjack.
It comes down to a form factor vs OS features choice between the two.

Posted by: Omega2008

I will tell you a trick or two to speed up the device. Your problem is with WM5 handling the memory. It is programed to keep in memory the programs you use the most, and close the ones you don't faster than the ones you do. Sometimes this is not needed and you rather close each and every program after using it. I suggest you use smartskey...I use it on the 8125, however I don't know if it will work with the 8525..from a hardware and software stance it should but I haven't tried it yet, my 8525 is on its way. Another thing you can do is perform a registry edit that will make the phone close background apps more quickly...some programs themselves have a registry entry to control how long they stay active in the background, you can change those as well. You will have to research to find out what programs can do this and if you can actually change it (it depends on the developer of the program). Like I said there is a registry edit to control how the OS handles the memory. I had this problem alot on Smartphones and PPC, though its more a problem on Smartphones IMHO. Also be aware that you may think all running programs are closed but they may not be, I have leared that just because they don't show up in Task Manager on the phone doesn't mean they are not running in the background because I can look at the total memory being used and it still shows memory allocated for the program I thought was closed being used...Task Manager is great but its kinda buggy and doesn't always work all the time especially if you let the memory get to low.

So now for some tweaks, you may have tried these and if you have then a program you are using is defenalty a memory hog, uninstall that program and your OS speed problem will go away...at least it should lol.

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Shell\LowMem \ProgramMem

Change this value to somewhere between 64 and 96, 96 is the default on my 8125. This key has been in every WM device I have used from WM 2003 to WM5 so it should be on the 8525. You have to play around with it. Now make sure you back up your device, you could cause it to become unstable so prepare for the worse (which would be a hard reset).

I have mine set at 76 and I have no problems except for the normal hangups that I usually get because of how my available RAM the device has.

You can also try these, I am not sure if these keys exsist on the 8525:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\StorageManager\FATFS\

* CacheSize from 0 to 4096
* EnableCache = 1

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\StorageManager\Filters\f sreplxfilt\
* ReplStoreCacheSize from 0 to 4096

Give those a try and see if they help, you may have to adjust the values to get it to your liking.

Posted by: smokeyb111

Quote:

Originally Posted by sampy111

My 8525 has been responding slow lately. It takes like 10 -15 seconds to do anything. Just to view my text messages takes about 20 seconds. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to fix this????

I made sure all other programs aren't running.
The only app that I've installed is PhotoContacts Pro.

Someone mentioned the usual "CLOSE/X" problem ... What is that?

Do a search for Magic Button for WM5. It can actually "close" the programs or hide them as you see fit. With the stock version, if you hit the X in the top right corner, all you're really doing is hiding/minimizing the program, so it's still running.

With the 8125, Magic Button was ESSENTIAL, I have'nt downloaded it for my 8525 yet, but I intend to. Granted though, my device is running FINE, and lately, I've been closing the programs manually with the Memory Manager that comes installed.

Posted by: rosullivan04

When I got the device, it was relatively peppy... definitely better than the 8125. However, I've SuperCID'd it and stuck the new African TyTN ROM on it... it is definitely faster now! However, BE CAREFUL... this installs the 1.09 Bootloader and if your device isn't CID unlocked, you'll be stuck on that ROM for the time being. Also worth noting... on the Cingular ROM, I did notice a slowdown after a few days worth of usage, even after a reboot.

Posted by: jb40967

Go to Programs and try out the Event viewer. There might be something going on in the background that you don't see.

Posted by: Omega2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by rosullivan04

When I got the device, it was relatively peppy... definitely better than the 8125. However, I've SuperCID'd it and stuck the new African TyTN ROM on it... it is definitely faster now! However, BE CAREFUL... this installs the 1.09 Bootloader and if your device isn't CID unlocked, you'll be stuck on that ROM for the time being. Also worth noting... on the Cingular ROM, I did notice a slowdown after a few days worth of usage, even after a reboot.

Yes do be careful, you can still upgrade your ROM just make sure you CID and SuperCID (if you want to use your extROM as storage) before upgrading to a ROM with bootloader 1.09. You can downgrade your 1.06 bootloader to 1.04 but not from 1.09. Your bootloader must be version 1.04 to CID your device with pof's tool on XDA Developers. You can find out how to that here.

Posted by: b0stonirishguy

Quote:

Originally Posted by That70sGAdawg

3G Reception is better on the Blackjack, as I have both a 8525 and Blackjack.
It comes down to a form factor vs OS features choice between the two.

Agreed. I find the BJ better, too. No knock on the 8525, though.

Posted by: GSMspot

Quote:

Originally Posted by strikeIII

make sure all apps. are closed in the back ground and use some memory managing tool to free up RAM and temp space...this will speed up your device...if not then you may have some issues with the device itself because even switching to landscape when opening the keypad has 0 delay for me and i am a power user and use lots of memory hog apps....everything opens up with very little delay the only application that seems to take some time to open is the camera app which i don't use that often....i've had a lot of HTC products in the past and this is by far one of the best "all-in-one" devices HTC has made thats meets all needs...i like to think of this phone as an updated PDA2K(SX66)...

First, thanks very much for the advice everyone.

Some more data: First, I just got this phone, and the ONLY thing I installed into onboard memory was eWallet. Everything else I have installed onto the memory card. So, there is no shortage of main memory. But, could the access speed to/from the memory card be slowing up the whole machine? The Tasks function is built into the ROM, not on the card -- it's not like I've noticed (yet) any speed issues particular to card-stored applications.

I do have a lot of Tasks. I counted (estimated) 750 tasks on file, including both active and completed. I did a soft reset, let the boot cycle complete fully and then opened Tasks. That took 17.5 seconds. Then, I quit out of the Tasks program (but it was still running in memory), let the machine settle, and then I started Tasks again. This time it took 16.5 seconds. I did the same text on my iMate Jam. Is has a memory upgrade, yes, but a slower processor. It also runs WM2003. The Jam took only 5 seconds to pull up my Task lists.

Something like pulling up a list of text items ought to be one of the quickest things I could ask it to do. I have noticed that when the 8525 is having an especially hard time of it that the Task list opens for moment showing briefly what I think is a list of both Active and Completed Tasks before re-writing the display to show only Active Tasks. Even when my Jam was running low on memory, I never saw this behavior. I'll speculate that there has been an architectural change from WM2003 to WM5 which causes the device to have to access the full Tasks file rather than just pieces of it and then display only the parts desired. This would be consistent with another problem I noticed, namely that the Task list comes up Active or Completed, based on how you viewed it last time, but you have to apply the Filter every time you start Tasks in order to see only the category you are interested in.

I use my completed tasks as a historical reference, but if I have to delete some in order to speed this device up, I will. I do like the *capabilities* of this device just not the *usability.* There are a lot of "quirks." I really do want this phone to work.

Thanks again for any thoughts/advice.

Posted by: Cobra75007

Quote:

Originally Posted by pkazmier

I'm considering purchasing an 8525 as I'm looking for an integrated PDA and phone; however, I'm now concerned regarding the issue with a large task list. I use my outlook tasks extensively (I'm a following of "Getting Things Done") and its not at all uncommon to have 200 or so tasks. These are all categorized but if the delay in viewing and filtering is approximately 15 secs, this would be a major problem for me. Can anyone else confirm the slowness reported here? Is the 8525 not going to be sufficient for my needs? Would really appreciate feedback from someone that actually uses a large number of tasks on a regular basis.

200 or so tasks? Sounds like your processor is slow! Just teasing... sorry.. Had to take that one :-)

Posted by: Cobra75007

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveTreo300600

This is a good thread. But as I point of information for me (or anyone) to compare to the Blackjack, does anyone have any comments on how the 8525's reception compares to the BJ?

I have both !! The Blackjack is a clear winner when it comes to reception. In my office my BJ pulls the 3G network, where my 8525 pulls only a few bars from the U (Whichever one that is.)

When I connect them to use them as a modem, the BJ connects at 230kbps, whereas the 8525 only connects at 115Kbps.

Now allow me to caveat... When I use them as a modem I use the BJ via USB cable and the 8525 via Bluetooth because I cant figure out how to USB my 8525 as a modem. (strange. I know. Any help on this would be appreciated.)

So... dumb a$$ me... I use the BJ to connect as a modem for HighSpeed Internet at my home and I use the 8525 for everyday operations. I dont really like anything about the BJ except the speed and reception.

But in summary... Like momma always says "a good BJ is better than a good Hermes."

Posted by: Cobra75007

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega2008

What does it mean to: CID or SuperCID?

Posted by: Cobra75007

When I connect my 8525 to use it as a modem, it disables my phone. (An inbound call will knock me off my connection and I have to kill the modem to make a call from the phone.)

I have a Blackjack, which allows me to make phone calls from it and even take calls while keeping my laptop connected to the internet the entire time.

Any ideas on how to fix that???

Posted by: aaronmarks

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveTreo300600

This is a good thread. But as I point of information for me (or anyone) to compare to the Blackjack, does anyone have any comments on how the 8525's reception compares to the BJ?

The 8525 has absolutely amazing reception. I was in the 2nd level, below ground in a basement parking garage and still was talking on my phone today even after telling the persont that I thought I would surely drop the call

. My brother and father just picked up the blackjack yesterday, but I haven't got a chance to see them; I just walked them through connecting them to my exchange server over the phone. One of them was coming from a 2125 and the other an 8125, and they both say that they like the Blackjack a lot more. The 8525 IMO is the king of mobile phones right now.

Posted by: Playstation3

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaronmarks

I agree!!! RF is excellent. And my friends tell me I sound clearer and better overall on the 8525. 3G is also BLAZINGLY fast! What a device! I'm so impressed with this thing and I haven't even installed any software on it.

Posted by: smokeyb111

Quote:

Originally Posted by GSMspot

Honestly, that sounds weird! Have you considere'd XBM'ing your device? If you bought it from a store and you're within your 30 days, maybe take it back and ask for a replacement. My 8525 is blazing fast, and I have a couple of Programs on it. Granted I don't use Tasks that often neither. Unless I have a lot of Errands to run on a particular day or week and I don't wanna forget anything. but still,

Exchange it. That don't sound right. At least to me anyway.

Posted by: jzinckgra

Regarding the call quality- I see most if not all you guys are saying your CQ is excellent, clear, etc., but mine is horrible. I am planning on returing it for this reason only. Sounds like people on the other end are talking through a pilow. I have the sound all the way up. Very dissappointed. I am not in a 3G area. Is it possible that CQ will be better in 3G vs. non-3G areas? I can only receive GPRS where I am, so just curious if this would affect CQ. Reception seems fine though.

Posted by: Omega2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cobra75007

What does it mean to: CID or SuperCID?

CID allows you to install any ROM made for your device onto the device, SuperCID wipes the carrier from your phone, meaning its like having a unbranded device which means its SIM unlocked and you can use any GSM SIM from any carrier you wish.