vB Easy Archive - Store says, "I won't sell you an 8525"

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Store says, "I won't sell you an 8525"
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Posted by: rhysiez

Ok so my Cingular store says at first "we don't have any in stock" then says "I won't sell you one till i sell all of my 8125's" then says "we won't be sent any till I sell all of my 8125s"

Every time I questioned his response, he changed his answer. Does cingular do this to sell out there stock, or was this guy just being a ****, he wasn't my usual rep who hooks me up, so I was thinking maybe I should just go back another time. I guess I understand the reasoning, but I would think it would be smarter for them to just be allowed to blow them out through eBay and sell the new hot phone. Otherwise you are forcing customers who want to buy from you to go elsewhere, soon eBay will get my money and not a corporate store.

Any input from employees current or former?

Posted by: FallN

Your experience doesn't shock me. They have a nasty habit of "holding" stock for people signing new contracts only because THEY MAKE MORE COMMISSION off of it. Even a current Cingular customer that wants to REUP their contract gets turned away becaue they want to hold stock for the customer that make the REP the most money. That's shady and needs to stop!

I suggest you report the rep to the manager and report the store to Cingular's district office then buy the phone at another store that doesn't blow smoke up your a$$, order it online or over the phone.

Good luck.

Posted by: asdrew

Ask a different rep or try a different store.
That's the problem with lying, it's too hard to remember what you said! The truth doesn't change, lies do.

Posted by: jsmcguir

Quote:

Originally Posted by FallN

Your experience doesn't shock me. They have a nasty habit of "holding" stock for people signing new contracts only because THEY MAKE MORE COMMISSION off of it. Even a current Cingular customer that wants to REUP their contract gets turned away becaue they want to hold stock for the customer that make the REP the most money. That's shady and needs to stop!

cant speak for the authorized dealers, but at corp stores, not anymore. payout is the same for new customers or upgrades.

Posted by: Mesto

Report that Associate to a supervisor!

Posted by: mindflayer

I was told by the guy who sold me mine that they are being told not to sell unless upgrade or new customer due to availability.

Posted by: mentalcase

Btw i make as much on an upgrade as i do a new. If your upgrading or new ill sell you an 8525. If you just want it for full retail no way jose.

Posted by: tkdlove

yeah and that is our choice not the customers. we are looking out for the company too! Cingular does not profit on selling devices at retail.

Posted by: zreon

Well that is total BS. So people who have been with cingular for 5+ years or whatever amount of time are no allowed to buy a phone because the REPS don't make a commission?

It sounds like ebay from now on for me.

BTW...I work for UPS so what if you came in to ship something out and I said all I can do is send it the most expensive way? Does that sound correct to you? Of course it doesn't, but its my choice not the customers right?

Posted by: wesmills

Quote:

Originally Posted by mentalcase

Btw i make as much on an upgrade as i do a new. If your upgrading or new ill sell you an 8525. If you just want it for full retail no way jose.

Then, for your sake (depending on state), I sincerely hope you have blacked out or otherwise do not display a retail price for the device. Failure to sell a product at an advertised price if it is in stock and the customer otherwise meets the requirements of purchase (for "full retail price," the requirements, at least in Texas, consist of alive and present) is false advertising. (Texas Business & Commerce Code, Ch. 17, Secs. 12 and 46, as amended)

I guess I've never really had a problem getting what I'm after from Cingular, but it drives me up a wall to read statements like this by alleged employees. Granted, Cingular doesn't go out of their way to make it easy on the employees or the customers, but why even put a phone on display with the idea that "any ol' person" can pay full price and walk out with one?

Posted by: mbranscum

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhysiez

Ok so my Cingular store says at first "we don't have any in stock" then says "I won't sell you one till i sell all of my 8125's" then says "we won't be sent any till I sell all of my 8125s"

Every time I questioned his response, he changed his answer. Does cingular do this to sell out there stock, or was this guy just being a ****, he wasn't my usual rep who hooks me up, so I was thinking maybe I should just go back another time. I guess I understand the reasoning, but I would think it would be smarter for them to just be allowed to blow them out through eBay and sell the new hot phone. Otherwise you are forcing customers who want to buy from you to go elsewhere, soon eBay will get my money and not a corporate store.

Any input from employees current or former?

Big question: Is this a corporate store?

Posted by: Sh0t

Seems like it's smart on their behalf.

They're trying to get their paper. Good for them.

Pay full price overseas.

Posted by: Leland915

It it is anything like some of the corporate store were i am it is not the rep that has made the decision, my manager has told us that there are 2 8525's in the back but they are only for new lines. I think its a bad policy, we get paid the same on both however a new line is more important to them than an upgrade. The rep what probably just trying to do what his manager had told him to.

Posted by: ilvla2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leland915

however a new line is more important to them than an upgrade.

What's wrong with business (ESPECIALLY Cellular companies) today, current customers and loyalty mean little

Posted by: FallN

If Cingular reps make the same amount on upgrades as they do with new customers then why are they not willing to sell the phone to a current customer?!?

I agree with Wesmills that it is indeed false advertising. They clearly list the phone as "No contract price" right there in plain sight! A Cingular customer should be able to walk in, ask to buy the phone, if in stock, pay for it and walk out with it! That's it. Why the bullshazbutt and lying to the customer? Obviously there is a "tier system" internally in Cingular that says "new customers are more valuable than renewing ones so let's screw the renewing ones out of the phones and horde the phones for the new customers".

Scenario: You just got mugged. The hoods stole your wallet, your cell phone and everything else on your person. You, as a current Cingular customer rush down to the store after filing a police report to buy a new phone and get a new SIM... Oh, but they refuse to sell you any phones because you're not a new customer! They don't care what reason you need to buy the phone or which phone you want to buy. You're not a new customer? Hell, then you walk out with an activated SIM card and NO PHONE! Tough cookies. But they were "nice enough" to point you in the direction of eBay or Walmart to buy a prepaid kit! Now, I dare you to tell me that's okay. "Oh, but they don't make money off of selling you a new phone at retail", you said, right? So it's okay for them to turn you away empty handed even in a situation like that, right?

My point simply is, if they start picking and choosing which Cingular customers they sell phones to, there's nothing stopping them from not selling you a phone even in a situation like the above. Reps aren't the Phone Gods. (Sounding more like Phone Nazis to me.) They are there to SERVE THE CUSTOMER! Or lest you forget who pays both your and Cingular's bills.

Posted by: importluva

in my experience, cell phone sales reps are usually the dumbest people in the world that don't have an inkling of an idea about the product they sell. Not all, but the majority.

Posted by: zonderF

Nobody makes any money from selling the phone at retail price, the reps, the store, Cingular, nobody makes anything.

I dont know what everybody else is selling it for outright, but by looking at some of the prices that are on ebay, I seriously doubt any store is going to come close to it. Most of the auctions beat our price by about $150-200.

Posted by: kernel843

well, I call BS to the, they don't make money by selling the phone @ retail. My friend told me the prices on some of their phones and the price retail and it was usually around $200 over cost for retail than w/ new line activation on a 2 year, so if they buy a blackjack for 400, retail is $600, and I'm no expert, but on a basic two year activation, do reps make $200 in comission?

Posted by: princeasi

i would understand the agency stores doing this but the corps, is unacceptable! they also gave me a hard time when trying to purchase the 8525 and ive been with cingy for almost 10 yrs now! im tellin you, when you think about how the 8525 has been marketed and launched, it seems that they purposely lauched this phone in limited stock just so they can drive the demand up knowing that there would be people who would add lines and upgrade unnecessarily just to get their hands on this phone. Honestly i think the managers and supervisors are also puppets on a string, complaing to corp will not solve anything because cingular are the ones giving managers and supervisors the directives to only sell the phone to new lines as a priorty, then next upgrades, then very lastly on the agenda "retail". What cingular want customers to do is order online if they're purchasing at retail, which is really unfair to customers like me, honestly i hope soon that cingy falls into a slump with there subscribers to someone like alltel or helio lol, then maybe cingy will then notice the importance of keeping there loyal customers happy and fair business practices!

Posted by: cuidinsider

thats some pretty good ******** i say u give me the contact info for the store and i will call them and take care of them for you...

Posted by: Naveen

i have an easy solution to this problem for everyone---buy the phone online via the cingular web site---dont want a pda plan, no problem, want the phone and dont want a new plan, no problem. i went straight to the web when the phone came out and there was no need to haggle with anyone

Posted by: asdrew

Quote:

Originally Posted by tkdlove

yeah and that is our choice not the customers. we are looking out for the company too! Cingular does not profit on selling devices at retail.

Yeah... If a company can't make a profit on selling an item at full retail, they're idiots.

As a former corporate manager (not Cingular or even phone-related), I know that most managers get part of their bonus based on different parts of the sales of the store, among other things.

It sounds to me like the manager gets a much better bonus on contract committments than regular sales. So, the managers that only care about the size of their bonus institute practices like this, and make up stuff for their employess to believe. The managers that realize they are there to serve customers on behalf of Cingular, take care of what the customer wants, especially any time they are willing to give the comany any amount of money for any thing. Dollars in the cash drawer are a good thing.

The manager may not profit well or at all by selling retail stuff, But I guarantee Cingular does, or they need to get out of the retail end of the business.

I also agree that it is illegal in most states to refuse to sell an advertised item in stock at the advertised terms. OK, lets see some State's attorneys go after them.

Oh, and Naveen is right, screw the store and get it online. Then Cingular will keep cutting back on their stores staffing like they have, and the moron who wouldn't sell the phone will eventually lose his job.

Posted by: juiceppc

On one hand I do understand this. Although as a customer it does sound absurd. How many of these 8525's do stores get anyway? Like 3 at a time or something no? With that low of stock I don't blame them for wanting to wait to sell it with a new line. Otherwise anyone who comes in and actually wants to start a new contract will not have a good selection for phones if the store just sells them willy nilly. What Cing needs to do is take orders from their customers if they want a phone put in a order, put down a deposit and 2 days later come pick it up. That way they'll always have their good phones in stock to get their precious commission. What is the commish on a new account w/ a 8525 anyway. 25 bucks?

Or just stop paying them commission so they stop acting like they own the company... I don't know why they feel so loyal to Cing anyway when they probably pay them what?, 7 bucks an hour?

Posted by: importluva

Quote:

Originally Posted by juiceppc

On one hand I do understand this. Although as a customer it does sound absurd. How many of these 8525's do stores get anyway? Like 3 at a time or something no? With that low of stock I don't blame them for wanting to wait to sell it with a new line. Otherwise anyone who comes in and actually wants to start a new contract will not have a good selection for phones if the store just sells them willy nilly. What Cing needs to do is take orders from their customers if they want a phone put in a order, put down a deposit and 2 days later come pick it up. That way they'll always have their good phones in stock to get their precious commission. What is the commish on a new account w/ a 8525 anyway. 25 bucks?

Or just stop paying them commission so they stop acting like they own the company... I don't know why they feel so loyal to Cing anyway when they probably pay them what?, 7 bucks an hour?

I don't know many people that buy phones at full retail cost. In fact, almost everyone I know buys their phones on contract to get the subsidized pricing unless an incident occurs (lost, broken, stolen).

Posted by: Naveen

Quote:

Originally Posted by importluva

agreed. i think that is why people were all crazy for the 8525, including myself. why buy a tytn for 850 when i can get a 8525 for 400. even if in the future i need to get another 8525, i will still have not paid the price of the tytn.

Posted by: ieee1394

The equipment pricing policies set forth by Cingular are not unique to the industry. They save the best stuff for new customers. The satellite tv operators do this too: look at the sweet deals you get if you sign up as a new Dish or Directv customer; conversely, if you've been with a sat. network for 6 years you get the privilege of paying "full price" to upgrade equipment.

None of this really makes sense to me. It is typically cheaper to work hard to retain current customers than to go out and find new ones. So you'd think they would encourage people to upgrade their equipment. Not only that, but new equipment that can support new services (like HSPDA, or video) provide the opportunity to gain more recurring revenue from current subscribers. I have a crappy v551 right now that I'd like to upgrade to an 8525. My v551 can't do anything worthwhile so I don't bother subscribing to any premium services. I have premier so at least I don't have to wait for my contract to come up for renewal to get a decent price on a new phone. My wife? She's not on premier, and yet she would be a power user for an 8525.

Yeah, you can go to eBay for a new phone, but you're not going to get a deal with it. If you do go eBay, I'd say pay the price to get an unlocked phone at least.

The long and the short of it is that if you're a current customer you're always doomed when it comes to upgrades. But that's only because we're not used to paying "full retail" for cell phones anyway.

Oh, and for those dealers that are holding back stock for new customers and yet advertising the product at a non-contract price...well, I believe that's actually illegal. Lookup the Sherman Act and price fixing.

Posted by: literfizzer

I had the same experience a few weeks ago when the SYNC came out. The manager of the Mountain View, CA store said he couldn't sell one to me at retail, that they were reserved for new customers. I asked how he could do that. He then stammered out a "correction" that they were already on hold for people who had called.

This is just the latest bad experience with a COR store. So when the Blackjack came out, I waited until it showed up on Amazon.com and bought for $125 on a two-year contract renewal with a $50 rebate. That's been a pretty good experience, though they still sent me a new SIM even though I had a new 3G SIM I got in July (they ask for your SIM serial number as part of the ordering process). I called and told them my old SIM was working fine, please don't change anything, but two days later my phone went dead when they activated the new SIM anyway.

Amazon's at least been pleasant to deal with. Many of the COR employees are arrogant, surly and ignorant. The store manager I previously mentioned swore up and down that HSDPA wasn't rolled out yet, that 900kbps was UMTS speed. I tried to correct him nicely so he wouldn't keep spreading misinformation, but he wasn't hearing it. ("Maybe we should fire the network tech who told me that," is what he said.) I told him not to believe me, but to do some research online.

Posted by: graphiteRT

Quote:

Originally Posted by zonderF

Nobody makes any money from selling the phone at retail price, the reps, the store, Cingular, nobody makes anything.

This argument is a total non-starter.

Use some common sense people. You can go online right now and buy a Dell laptop complete with CD burner and a 15" LCD screen for $599. Are you seriously going to argue the BOM and build costs of a sub 2" screen cellphone result in "no profit" at a $499 retail price point??? Sure, there is some R&D money to account for in any sleek design, but much of the tech inside these things it cookie cutter and certainly doesn't require those kind of price points for ROI on the hardware.

Posted by: zreon

I couldn't agree more graphieRT. There is absolutly NO WAY that the cingular stores aren't making a penny off of the cell phones at retail price. If you believe that cingular stores pay $550 for each 8525 or $449 for each blackjack then you need to do a little research on current business models and production.

Posted by: rhysiez

thanks for all the replies. Update: I went in today and talked with one of the guys in there today that knows I buy a lot of phones, he walks right in the back and pulls one out for me. I actually decided to give the blackjack a try. I'm hoping I can return it for a 750, or try the 8525 next then the 750 if it's out and see which of the three I like. Thanks again for everyone's info

Posted by: asdrew

rhysiez-

We've entertained ourselves while we were waiting for you to complete your quest!

So, did they make any money on you, or not?

Posted by: rhysiez

i paid retail, no contract lol i'll return it anyway in 30 days i don't really like this black jack very much, def. want that 750

Posted by: tkdlove

ok so far we have:
people not working for Cingular but know everything about the company and it's P&L margins. (yea right) bonus structures are not based around selling at retail price, as a matter of fact, new acts are the focus and that is where the money is made... if i want my commission my store has goals to meet and none of those goals say anything about selling phones at retail.

people who seem to think that Cingular makes its own phones and seriously marks them up... we are not Dell. yes there is a slight mark up but it is not enough to be profitable. i.e: overhead, salaries etc...

people who think that buying online is the best practice... haha keep it up and we can simply refuse to give you customer service in store without a receipt... just kidding

and as a reminder... upgrades get the same pricing as a new customer, as a matter of fact... sign a 2 year and you are golden

retail pricing on the other hand burns inventory and as one poster pointed out we only receive limited quantity... tough noogies if you want a phone at retail when it launches.

lastly,
Rhysiez: i hope you make a wise choice before you return your blackjack as Cingular's return policy only allows you 1 exchange... it is written and posted in every store... if you want the 750 i would wait till it laiunches....
best of luck!

once again, everyone can fuss and complain about Cingular's policies and what the employees do but at the end of the day put yourself in our shoes and see how long you survive.
i started out in this industry trying to fight the good fight but i have a family to feed and i will make my $$, so sorry about that (not really)

Posted by: princeasi

Quote:

Originally Posted by tkdlove

ok so far we have:
people not working for Cingular but know everything about the company and it's P&L margins. (yea right) bonus structures are not based around selling at retail price, as a matter of fact, new acts are the focus and that is where the money is made... if i want my commission my store has goals to meet and none of those goals say anything about selling phones at retail.

people who seem to think that Cingular makes its own phones and seriously marks them up... we are not Dell. yes there is a slight mark up but it is not enough to be profitable. i.e: overhead, salaries etc...

people who think that buying online is the best practice... haha keep it up and we can simply refuse to give you customer service in store without a receipt... just kidding

and as a reminder... upgrades get the same pricing as a new customer, as a matter of fact... sign a 2 year and you are golden

Then cingular needs to stop advertising retail prices on their tickets inside these corp stores, whats the point? They should only state the cost for either 2yr or 1yr contracts to acquire a particular phone. Once they do that, then it would be understandable, but till then, they're only false advertising and misleading customers, and its funny when i hear people saying that cingular cant survive from selling phones retail lolllll, trust me cingular is not surviving, it's Thriving! i read all time about how the top ceo's of att and cingular are recieving millions of dollars in their bonus checks alone every year. I've also read alot about customers experience with this issue and the managers sh!%%y attitude towards them. They're only like that because the top dogs at cingular gives them permission to lie about not having the phones in stock and to only sale to upgrading and new lines only. Its all marketing schemes! But its only so long before a class action law suit surface up behind this if cingular keeps this type of business up! oh yeah and who cares about the 1 time return policies, thats bs, ive bought the same phone(8125) and returned it 3 times maybe 4 or 5 times just so i can get a couple of free batteries for all the hassel i went thru with getting it at launch lol. All i did was goto to different stores and run the same bs excuse for switching the phone!

Posted by: ivwshane

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhysiez

thanks for all the replies. Update: I went in today and talked with one of the guys in there today that knows I buy a lot of phones, he walks right in the back and pulls one out for me. I actually decided to give the blackjack a try. I'm hoping I can return it for a 750, or try the 8525 next then the 750 if it's out and see which of the three I like. Thanks again for everyone's info

So wasting three phones to find the right one for you makes sense but cingular wanting to hold phones for new customers and existing customers that want to renew their contract doesn't? You are the exact same type of person that causes companies like costco to change their policies, you abuse the system and ruin it for everyone.

Quote:

Use some common sense people. You can go online right now and buy a Dell laptop complete with CD burner and a 15" LCD screen for $599. Are you seriously going to argue the BOM and build costs of a sub 2" screen cellphone result in "no profit" at a $499 retail price point??? Sure, there is some R&D money to account for in any sleek design, but much of the tech inside these things it cookie cutter and certainly doesn't require those kind of price points for ROI on the hardware.

The difference being cingular doesn't make the phones and I'm pretty sure phone manufactures want their profit as well and charge cingular accordingly. Sure they make profit on full retail priced phones but do you think its anywhere near what they would make if they got someone tied into a contract paying a monthly service?

Posted by: ivwshane

Quote:

Originally Posted by princeasi

They are required by law to have the no commitment price on the tag. I'm not sure of the exact reasoning but in my state tax is paid on the no commitment price.

Posted by: zreon

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivwshane

They are required by law to have the no commitment price on the tag. I'm not sure of the exact reasoning but in my state tax is paid on the no commitment price.

Exactly, and if they advertise it for sale at retail price, then they are required BY LAW to sell it.

For all of you who work at corporate stores answer me this question. What if I lost my 8125 when it was first released and I needed another phone. Would you tell tough luck, we won't sell you this because we will make more money off of the guy behind you.

I can say for sure that if I was told this, I would contact my lawyer and cancel my contract immediately and switch to a different provider.

Posted by: Scotes

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivwshane

They are required by law to have the no commitment price on the tag. I'm not sure of the exact reasoning but in my state tax is paid on the no commitment price.

And by law if they have a no commitment price posted they MUST honor it. Same principle applies if you walk into <insert whatever store here> and they have the wrong price posted on something - they MUST honor it. They can fix it after they sell it to you but if you find it posted then that's what you pay. End of story.

Posted by: graphiteRT

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivwshane

Dell doesn't make LCD screens or the chipsets used in their laptops either. What's your point? I didn't say Cingular made phones anywhere in the post.

Best guess, the phone is "landed" in a Cingular distribution warehouse for $40-$50 cost for Samsung. Even if they sell it to Cingular at 100% markup, is anyone going to say Cingular isn't making money at $499 ea or even at the $199 advertised price for new activation or upgrade on the Blackjack I bought?

Obviously a zero cost phone upon activation is a subsidized phone, but the long held idea that ALL of their phones are subsidized is pure BS.

Posted by: princeasi

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivwshane

They are required by law to have the no commitment price on the tag. I'm not sure of the exact reasoning but in my state tax is paid on the no commitment price.

I mean that they need to change their policies to reflect their actions with selling these phones, "PUT IT ON PAPER CINGY" but cingular dont want to do that because they know for sure once they announce they no longer sell phones at retail, they would turn away future subscribers as well lose alot of the current subscribers! So what does cingy do? Cingular says "YES we also have phones for sale with no commitement" but then train their employees to reject selling the phone without a contract!

Posted by: ivwshane

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scotes

Who said they wouldn't honor the no commitment price? They simply don't have to sell it and its been shown that that is a legal practice, just look at companies like bestbuy or gamestop that will only sell newly released systems to people that buy complete bundles as opposed to naked systems.

Posted by: princeasi

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivwshane

but a complete bundle is not a 2 or 1 year contract, in that aspect, bestbuys and gamestop are not offering a service, they are offering products! your mixing apples and oranges, and they've displayed proof of not honoring what they advertise by lying and discriminating!

Posted by: ivwshane

Quote:

Originally Posted by graphiteRT

And if you re-read my post you will see that I say that cingular does indeed make money off of full retail priced phones. Again though, its not anywhere near the amount of money they would get if they sold the phone with service and had a customer locked in for two years. As a business what would you choose to do? Sell a phone at full retail to make $50 and upset a potential or existing customer who wants to renew their contract because the phone may not be in stock when they want to buy it or upset a customer that wants to buy a phone that will yield cingular $50 in favor of making a minimum of $480 ($40monthly x12months) for a new or existing customer who is willing to sign up for service with cingular?

Posted by: ivwshane

Quote:

Originally Posted by princeasi

but a complete bundle is not a 2 or 1 year contract, in that aspect, bestbuys and gamestop are not offering a service, they are offering products! your mixing apples and oranges!

Yeah it is a bundle! You are buying a phone AND service, no service no phone, no games and accessories, no system. Its the same principal.

Believe me, I think it sucks too, in either situation but it still makes business sense.

Posted by: princeasi

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivwshane

well in that case it 1st come and 1st serve, those are qwerks that comes with running this type of business, but cingular is purposely offering limited supplies of certain phones just to get new subscribers and upgrades, they can easily purchase the correct amount of phones to meet the demands but cingy choose not to do that!

Posted by: princeasi

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivwshane

but cingular policy doesnt state that! they clearly state No Commentment prices and commentment prices! they have to honor both if they clearly state that in writing!

Posted by: ivwshane

Quote:

Originally Posted by princeasi

Really? You think its cingular thats limiting the amount of phones it has? You think it has nothing to do with HTC manufacturing the product and not being able to supply the demand?

Why would cingular purposely do that? If they limit supply then potential new and existing customers would be affected as well.

The point is, the 8525 is in short supply and while it is, cingular will reserve the phones for those signing up with service, once supply is increased cingular will be able to sell it to anyone willing to pay the full retail price (just like they do with a number of their current phones).

Posted by: ivwshane

Quote:

Originally Posted by princeasi

but cingular policy doesnt state that! they clearly state No Commentment prices and commentment prices! they have to honor both if they clearly state that in writing!

Gamestop and bestbuy both show a "base" price for game systems yet they still reserve the right to sell it to only those that buy the "bundle".

There is a difference between not selling something and not selling something at the advertised price. If cingular had plenty of phones in stock, I guarantee you they would sell it to you for the no commitment price.

Posted by: princeasi

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivwshane

Of course they're doing this on purpose, they did it with the 8125's and they see that it was effective then, now they're doing it again! just watch, after the holidays i say around mid january is when they'll start pouring in the 8525's, after cingular has acquired there desired subscribers! at least bestbuys and gamestop honor what they advertise, if they advertise bundle then its a bundle instore, if they advertise bundle plus extra then thats what you have to get, but you definitely wont see them saying well "A"customer is buying 3 more games then "B" customer so i gotta sell the last playstation 3 bundle to "A" customer! No! in that case its 1st come 1st serve

Posted by: ivwshane

Quote:

Originally Posted by princeasi

I'm sorry but you are delusional! The reason they will be in stock after the holidays is because the demand will go down.

And just to prove my point, the blackjack and the a707 are all new phones and when they first came out there was a limited supply, that is no longer the case and they are readily available now.

Posted by: princeasi

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivwshane

Delusional??? Open your eyes look at the physical proof. Is delusional is noticing that each store only carries 2 3 or at the most 4 units a shipment?? is delusional when cingular is a billion dollar company fully thriving for at least 10 years and all of a sudden they dont know how to launch a product??? This is not the only time cingular has launched an highly anticipated product! Look at the mpx220, highly anticipated, and guess what? when lauched, fully stocked and available, the only down fall when they lauched that phone was it suffered some hardware and software glitches which caused a recall of the units. Look at the Razr, highly anticipated, fully stocked at launch, more than 2,3,4 units in each corp store! Of course they have blackjacks availble now, because it not as a demand like the 8525's, so guess what? cingular continues to use the 8525's as bait to lure people into upgrades and signups. Lets see sometimes in mid jan or after the hype dies down for the 8525's, will the corps stores still continue to only carry 2,3,4 units or will they now have 7,8,10 or more at a time! Just FYI, i paid a cingy rep a visit yesterday to swap my defective 8525 unit for another one. I asked him for the hell of it, "whats the deal with the shortages of 8525's?" to sum up his answer in a short, he acknowledged that it was all marketing schemes to lure subscribers and upgrades, but I knew this already, it doesnt take a rocket scientist to see this! Do you see any signs posted or hanging up on there walls stating "Due to limited supplies of the Cingular 8525's we will only sell to new custormers or those adding a line and those who are upgrading"? of course not, and you will not see that because cingular knows its unfair business practices, and its nowhere stated in their policies! All im saying is that if cingular wants to do business that way, more power to them but, put it in writing! make it a policy, make it official! Or stand behind what you advertise! plain and simple!

Posted by: ivwshane

You have no idea what you are talking about. How many 8525 commercials/ads have you seen? How many blackjack commercials/ads and a707 commercials/ads by cingular have you seen? Cingular is heavily advertising those two phones and you know what, the demand for those phones is a lot higher than the demand for the 8525.

My guess is that you also believe that when MS and sony released their new systems they only released a limited supply on purpose and it had nothing to do with manufacturing.

Quote:

I asked him for the hell of it, "whats the deal with the shortages of 8525's?" to sum up his answer in a short, he acknowledged that it was all marketing schemes to lure subscribers and upgrades, but I knew this already, it doesnt take a rocket scientist to see this!

Then the rep you delt with is an idiot. Ask him where he got that info from because I know for a fact its not a marketing ploy.

Posted by: princeasi

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivwshane

You have no idea what you are talking about. How many 8525 commercials/ads have you seen? How many blackjack commercials/ads and a707 commercials/ads by cingular have you seen? Cingular is heavily advertising those two phones and you know what, the demand for those phones is a lot higher than the demand for the 8525.

My guess is that you also believe that when MS and sony released their new systems they only released a limited supply on purpose and it had nothing to do with manufacturing.

Then the rep you delt with is an idiot. Ask him where he got that info from because I know for a fact its not a marketing ploy.

No need to ask, he's the 2nd rep that told me this! Basically every bestbuys, gamestop, walmart, eb games, and stores alike that ive gone to definitely had more than 2,3,4 stocks of xboxs, playstations, nintendos, highly anticipated games, during there launch. It just doesnt settle well with me that cingular all of a sudden has a problem with launching highly anticipated phones now! Lastly I dont put anything past cingular. Read the forums, look at the complaints which hundreds, or maybe thousands of people if not more are expriencing: Reps tampering with and changing customers plans without the customers permission, Misleading and misinforming customers with GF plans that they have to change to a higher data plan if you own a pda or smartphone because old media net plans are not compatible with those type of phones lol(I have a GF media works with my 8525, and works flawlessly!), cingular turning away loyal customers, intentionally lying about in-stock products to lure upgrades, new lines, and added lines, and cingular continues to turn a blind eye! These are all legitimate complaints by many members on here, not counting those that we dont see on here! and you dont think cingular would pull such a marketing scheme?

Posted by: ivwshane

Quote:

Basically every bestbuys, gamestop, walmart, eb games, and stores alike that ive gone to definitely had more than 2,3,4 stocks of xboxs, playstations, nintendos, highly anticipated games, during there launch

Really? So I can go into any of those stores right now and pick up a ps3? When the xbox 360 came out it took two weeks to get them in stock again.

Quote:

Lastly I dont put anything past cingular. Read the forums, look at the complaints which hundreds, or maybe thousands of people if not more are expriencing: Reps tampering with and changing customers plans without the customers permission, Misleading and misinforming customers with GF plans that they have to change to a higher data plan if you own a pda or smartphone because old media net plans are not compatible with those type of phones lol(I have a GF media works with my 8525, and works flawlessly!), cingular turning away loyal customers, intentionally lying about in-stock products to lure upgrades, new lines, and added lines, and cingular continues to turn a blind eye! These are all legitimate complaints by many members on here, not counting those that we dont see on here! and you dont think cingular would pull such a marketing scheme?

Ah, so your true colors come out. I'm not going to deny the other stuff but you obviously have a bias against cingular and are blinded by that, that it just has to be true that cingular is just intentionaly holding back phones because of some marketing scheme.

You read and hear what you want to hear but not whats actually told to you, good luck with that

Posted by: princeasi

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivwshane

Really? So I can go into any of those stores right now and pick up a ps3? When the xbox 360 came out it took two weeks to get them in stock again.

Sure! and if they have'em in stock they will sell it to you as advertised, whatever they have in writing they will honor it. Its a 1st come 1st serve basis, None of that other bs!

Ah, so your true colors come out. I'm not going to deny the other stuff but you obviously have a bias against cingular and are blinded by that, that it just has to be true that cingular is just intentionaly holding back phones because of some marketing scheme.

You read and hear what you want to hear but not whats actually told to you, good luck with that

Hey it came from the horses(cingy) mouth 1st, not mine. The information just ensured my thoughts about the whole issue! I see a pattern occurring with cingular thats all! It looks mighty strange! Honestly i do hope that im wrong about cingular, because i really do like the sevices thats offered but cingular has really changed since i've first contracted with them, and ive been with'em since 97, 98 and cingular customer service has changed for the worse so far! The only reason why i havent switched over because i get 20% off my bill and 30% off of phones and equipment

otherwise i wouldve been gone about a year ago!

Posted by: asdrew

Here's a solution if Cingular wants to play their game:
Package one for straight retail, and package the other as a "contract bundle" with a SIM card or something. Now they are 2 different products, with different value-added. I would not have a problem with that.

Posted by: mbranscum

How about going into the store and doing an upgrade. If you're not eligible, then add a new line. before the 30 day trial is up, cancel the contract and say you just want to keep the phone and pay retail.

Posted by: princeasi

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbranscum

How about going into the store and doing an upgrade. If you're not eligible, then add a new line. before the 30 day trial is up, cancel the contract and say you just want to keep the phone and pay retail.

what an idea! kudos!

Posted by: b0stonirishguy

Quote:

Originally Posted by importluva

I always buy at full retail.

Posted by: r111

Trying to get one by opening a new a business premier account on the web site. 8525 is the only PDA phone out of stock.

Posted by: juiceppc

^ I also know a lot of people buy at full retail. I'm not eligible to upgrade or renew my contract so I have 2 choices. Buy a Tytn from online retailer or buy a full retail 8525(which is cheaper and I can return it to a store without shipping if something goes wrong).

Posted by: princeasi

Quote:

Originally Posted by asdrew

Here's a solution if Cingular wants to play their game:
Package one for straight retail, and package the other as a "contract bundle" with a SIM card or something. Now they are 2 different products, with different value-added. I would not have a problem with that.

They've pretty much done that:
8525
Price $549.99
2-yr Contract Price $449.99

Posted by: Scotes

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivwshane

When BestBuy or Gamestop are doing this I believe they are almost always only advertising and posting the bundle price - not posting/advertising the unit alone. In this case it is legit and how they can get away with it. If BestBuy or Gamestop were to have a price tag noting a bundle price and a unit price for a PS3/PSP/Wii/Whatever they would be required to honor that and could not force you to buy the bundle. That is what is happening here. If it's posted then they have to honor it. If they don't want to sell the unit at the retail price then don't post the price of the unit alone. Mind, they can still have a retail no commitment price (or no bundle) for the unit if they want to sell it on it's own but if it is not posted then they are under no obligation to sell it to you.

Posted by: ivwshane

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scotes

No I've seen places where the unbundled system is out of stock but the bundled systems were in stock.

So it looks like all cingular has to do is say, "I'm sorry the no commitment phone is out of stock but we have the 2yr contract bundle in stock"

They wouldn't be NOT selling the phone for the no commitment price, they just wouldn't have any non bundles in stock.

Posted by: Scotes

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivwshane

Did they have the unbundled system price prominently displayed and were the bundled systems packaged differently? Also, when I say packaged differently I mean it can be as simple as saran wrap holding the bits together. If the price wasn't displayed and they were already packaged then it's fine. If not then it is of questionable legality - it's just a matter of getting a governmental authority to deal with it.

Posted by: ieee1394

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivwshane

Really? You think its cingular thats limiting the amount of phones it has? You think it has nothing to do with HTC manufacturing the product and not being able to supply the demand?

We will never know the answer to that. Only the people involved with forecasting and ordering, and senior management will know for sure. Cingular probably had to commit to an order for this equipment many months ago. It's quite likely that something changed in the intervening months which led to an unanticipated shortage. It could have just been poor forecasting.

The reason you will see the BJ promoted more heavily is probably because they have an excess of stock they need to move, or maybe they were more prepared to promote and sell the BJ.

Obviously, these supply problems are temporary. They are compounded nonetheless by the fact that a lot (A LOT) of cargo is moving around right now because of the holidays. It is quite possible that they can't get the 8525s here soon enough to meet demand.

I doubt it's a conspiracy. Whether or not Cingular has a verbal policy of reserving stock for new customers is an entirely separate issue. If it does exist, or if it exists only at the Agent level, I'm highly doubt you will see it written down anywhere.

Look on the bright side, maybe a delay might (just might) result in the next shipment being bumped up a minor revision. Then you'd see a bunch of people whining that they have the previous revision because they bought theirs too soon.

Posted by: dr.RW

This thread is getting redundant. The bottom line is that if a price is advertised and the product is in stock then it is illegal to not sell the item to a customer. There is no argument on this. If the store says they have a waiting list or that people have put down deposits for the items in stock then you have a right to demand proof, ie the list with the deposits. Failure to produce such a list is tantamount to admitting deception.

To be absolutely clear, the store can not say "I make more money selling to a new customer so I will not sell to you." No matter how much the company or employee may benefit from such practice, if it is not explicitly stated that a phone is for sale to new customers only, the practice is illegal. You can not follow the law only when it is convenient for you and disregard the law when you stand to benefit. There are a multitude of real and tangible benefits from illegal conduct but they are still illegal, period, full stop, end of story.

Posted by: r111

It is also moot, 8525 is sold out at Cingular web store and brick and morter stores. They told me it would be another month until they get more in.

Posted by: princeasi

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivwshane

its funny that you totally miss the point that cingular has the 8525 in stock alot of the times but they lie after finding out that the customer wants to purchase at retail! ive made numerous calls when i was searching for mines and most of them would ask 1st "are u adding or upgrading a line?" at 1 time i said no and the rep stated there were none! the following min i had someone else call for me and had them to state that they were adding a line and guess what? that same rep said oh yeah we have 1 more left! wow its amazing how that unit magically appeared there within 1min, and this is not the 1st time this happened! its happened at other locations!, wow thers that pattern again! but ur right dr this is stuck in a loop. Im finished loll

Posted by: B-Money

Here comes a novel:
As a rep, the shortage of 8525s is the most annoying part of the holiday season. We got 3 in on the initial shipment over 3 weeks ago and have not seen a single one come in since. That's not a "lie" we tell our customers, that's the absolute truth. None of our stores in the whole tri-state market have any.

When we have enough of a phone in stock, I have absolutely no problem selling out phones at a no commitment price. I'm not sure how much Cingular makes off the retail, but the cost of the phone to the store itself is lower. However, with stores, there's also overhead, employee salaries, price of the lease, and other store expenses that are being overlooked. So I'm very sure Cingy doesn't make THAT much off retail. If they did, I'm sure they would push us reps to sell more of them! That's a no-brainer.

Sales reps in the retail stores have a quota. We have specific numbers of new activations and renewals we're supposed to do. Full retail doesn't get us closer to that number. When we don't hit our quota, we risk losing our job.

When we don't have enough of a phone in stock, the first priority does go to those who have requested a new contract or renewal. There isn't a rep in the business that would disagree with me. When someone is looking at getting a new phone at retail, I simply tell them that there are places online that would sell it to them for a lower price. I have no problem being honest with people and leading them to a place that would save them money. However, I have a family to support. So when I am faced with a choice between selling a highly desired phone for commission or to sell it without commission, the choice is obvious. It's common sense. Trust me, reps do not make as much as you may think.

Another thing. More than half the time I sell a PDA at full retail price, it's because the customer just wants to "try it out" and plans on returning it for a full refund. So now I have the choice between selling a PDA to someone who will actually use it for 2 years (while helping my quota and commission), or someone who will probably just bring it back, take up more of my time to return it, and cost Cingular money (returned phones cost the company around $50). Those of you who have commented in this thread on buying a PDA, then returning it back, and repeating the process 3 times before settling on a 750, you have just made my point. We have no incentive whatsoever to sell phones at full retail, especially when we have a limited quantity. You may feel that's unfair. But that's how it is. We are not going to risk our jobs for it.

Posted by: Seltzer

It's all about supply and demand. Cingular wants units sold with a contract. If you don't like it, go to EBay.com or another 3rd party. It's like everything else in the world, there are priorities. If there's an auto dealership and one customer is willing to pay $5k over MSRP and another $6k over MSRP over the last car in stock? Who should get the auto? The first customer to walk into the dealership or the one to offer the most money? In simple wireless economics, the one with the contract is worth more.

If you don't like capitalism, move to Cuba.

Posted by: gees69

I still have the AT&T plan under cingular 7 am - 7 pm peak and still hanging on to it. I want to upgrade to the 8525, how much would it cost me. Will this be unlocked, since I want to be able to use it in the Asia.

Thank you for your response

Posted by: dr.RW

Quote:

Originally Posted by B-Money

Here comes a novel:
As a rep, the shortage of 8525s is the most annoying part of the holiday season. We got 3 in on the initial shipment over 3 weeks ago and have not seen a single one come in since. That's not a "lie" we tell our customers, that's the absolute truth. None of our stores in the whole tri-state market have any.

When we have enough of a phone in stock, I have absolutely no problem selling out phones at a no commitment price. I'm not sure how much Cingular makes off the retail, but the cost of the phone to the store itself is lower. However, with stores, there's also overhead, employee salaries, price of the lease, and other store expenses that are being overlooked. So I'm very sure Cingy doesn't make THAT much off retail. If they did, I'm sure they would push us reps to sell more of them! That's a no-brainer.

Sales reps in the retail stores have a quota. We have specific numbers of new activations and renewals we're supposed to do. Full retail doesn't get us closer to that number. When we don't hit our quota, we risk losing our job.

When we don't have enough of a phone in stock, the first priority does go to those who have requested a new contract or renewal. There isn't a rep in the business that would disagree with me. When someone is looking at getting a new phone at retail, I simply tell them that there are places online that would sell it to them for a lower price. I have no problem being honest with people and leading them to a place that would save them money. However, I have a family to support. So when I am faced with a choice between selling a highly desired phone for commission or to sell it without commission, the choice is obvious. It's common sense. Trust me, reps do not make as much as you may think.

Another thing. More than half the time I sell a PDA at full retail price, it's because the customer just wants to "try it out" and plans on returning it for a full refund. So now I have the choice between selling a PDA to someone who will actually use it for 2 years (while helping my quota and commission), or someone who will probably just bring it back, take up more of my time to return it, and cost Cingular money (returned phones cost the company around $50). Those of you who have commented in this thread on buying a PDA, then returning it back, and repeating the process 3 times before settling on a 750, you have just made my point. We have no incentive whatsoever to sell phones at full retail, especially when we have a limited quantity. You may feel that's unfair. But that's how it is. We are not going to risk our jobs for it.

I'm sorry, no matter how you choose to spin it, what you are doing is illegal. If a customer walks in and wants to buy one of those three phones you have without a contract and you do not sell one to him you are breaking the law. How hard is it to understand that. You can not ignore the law when it is inconvenient for you. I can not believe you will post here and admit to this and still try to rationalize your position.

I am not unsympathetic to the needs of someone who has to support his family, but you should be complaining to Cingular and not beaking the law by punishing the customer who just wants to buy a phone that your company has promised (via there published pricing scheme) to sell to him.

If you did this to me I would be on the phone to Cingular and then the Attorney General's office before I left the store. Its not about hurting Cingular or your commission, or even about getting my way. It is simply following the law. Tell me, would you lie to me and say you didn't have any in stock, or would you look me in the eyes and say I won't sell one to you because you are not a priority for me or for Cingular?

If you have a problem with this, imagine going to a car rental agency because your car is in the shop. They have two cars left on the lot but will not rent to you because you did not go through their web site or get the airport shuttle service they like to sell with their cars. Would you stand for that?

Posted by: dr.RW

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seltzer

It's all about supply and demand. Cingular wants units sold with a contract. If you don't like it, go to EBay.com or another 3rd party. It's like everything else in the world, there are priorities. If there's an auto dealership and one customer is willing to pay $5k over MSRP and another $6k over MSRP over the last car in stock? Who should get the auto? The first customer to walk into the dealership or the one to offer the most money? In simple wireless economics, the one with the contract is worth more.

If you don't like capitalism, move to Cuba.

This is not capitalism it is illegal. If there is a customer in the store at the same time as me who announces that he wants the phone and a new contract that is one thing. If the rep refuses to sell to someone simply out of the hope that someone else will walk in soon to buy the phone with a contract that is when the practice ceases to be based on fair market principles and becomes fraud.

It is not supply and demand. We have consumer protection laws in this country, if a price is posted and no qualifying disclaimers accompany it, then it must be sold for the listed price. To change this policy with no notice is illegal. No Econ 101 simple little analogies can change that. We don't operate in a totally free market system where anyone can buy or sell anything for whatever price he can get. We have laws, and to ignore them, for whatever seemingly logical reasons you may conceive is illegal.

I am so sick of making this argument. There is no way around it. If you have a problem with the laws of this country then maybe you should move someplace else.

Posted by: princeasi

Quote:

Originally Posted by dr.RW

This is basically what ive been trying to explain, but explaining to some of these people on here is like talking to a 16 year old, they just dont get it!
if cingular wants to do business this way then they need to make it a policy thats written in there contracts!

Posted by: Neutron1998

I don't see how this is legal either.

If it's somehow legal its very unethical. I understand the whole commission thing, but seriously, why cherry-pick who you sell equipment to??

Posted by: AximMarkSD

i don't mean to beat a dead horse or anything and i'm certainly no legal scholar but how do i have a "right" to demand a private business to sell me something? it might be a scumbag thing to do and/or bad for business but i just don't get how it's illegal. you can't *demand* that someone does business with you.

i don't know. like i said, i'm many things but a lawyer is not one of them.

Posted by: Perceptions

Cingular, actually wireless carriers in general, do not realize that cell phones have become as important to consumers as buying a PS3 or any other high demand gadget. What they should do is set a premium on no commitment prices when high in demand phones are launched (one month or two). It reallocates supplies to contract customers (which is Cingular's revenue source) and for those who want one now then Cingular still make a profit. Not great but it is a better solution. The best solution is to increase supplies to improve customer satisfaction but it looks like that will not happen anytime soon.

For those who want one now here is a few words of advice. Its not so much the contract but the feature attachment reps get from selling a PDA. So tell them you want the $40 PDA Connect or $80 Laptop Connect so you can buy the phone. Once you walk out of the store call customer service and change it to the plan you want.

Posted by: asdrew

Quote:

Originally Posted by AximMarkSD

i don't mean to beat a dead horse or anything and i'm certainly no legal scholar but how do i have a "right" to demand a private business to sell me something? it might be a scumbag thing to do and/or bad for business but i just don't get how it's illegal. you can't *demand* that someone does business with you.

i don't know. like i said, i'm many things but a lawyer is not one of them.

You don't have to be a lawyer to understand very basic business legalities. Do yourself a favor and take a beginning business law course at the local community college. I learned this concept even in my HS business law class.

Good suggestion on inflating no-contract pricing perceptions. I realize Cingular is not strictly in the retail business, but more in the business of providing phone service.

Interesting through all this discussion no where has it come up that this is Cingular's policy, just made up by ignorant reps and managers looking out for the highest bonus they can get with what they have on the shelves.

Posted by: B-Money

So you're telling someone to be dishonest about putting on a PDA plan just to get the phone? Real smooth. So basically everybody on this thread, myself included, is using deceit to get exactly what they want! This is what i'm learning, anyways. It's all a game that everyone plays.

If you can't buy a PS3 in the store, you go online to buy it, or you wait until more are available in the store. When customers call our store to buy a highly desired phone at full retail, we simply say the phones are not available. You want a Blackjack? I'll sell you one at full retail. We have enough. But not 8525s or Pearls. Even if I tried, my manager and my co-workers would hang me at dawn.

If you can show me where it's illegal, then i'll recognize that you have a valid point. Until then, I don't see any place where it says it's illegal. If it were, then we would be forbidden from our company to do what we do. We certainly aren't discouraged from doing it. Quite the contrary. There are still plenty of avenues that can be taken to buy yourself a new phone at no commitment, many of which are cheaper than offered in the store. Customer care. Internet. Many companies have Cingular "order-takers" that can specially order you a phone at full retail. Cingular stores, however, have no method of taking orders or requesting additional phones. They just get sent to us.

Cingular stores are made with the purpose of selling phones and generating numbers for the corporation, first and foremost. If you think it's illegal, you bring it up with my company. You said that low pay is something that I should complain to the company; Every rep has complained about pay, but no matter how much us reps complain, We're the bottom of the totem pole. They don't listen. So we do what we can to survive.

I do what i do to give our new customers a good taste in their mouth, a good first impression. If we have a family come in that wants to get new service, and they want a phone that we don't have because we gave all of them out to existing customers who paid full price, they will leave and go somewhere else. Chances are they'll go to a different wireless carrier. But one thing for sure: our store loses that customer forever. Please explain in "Econ 101" how this helps us.

Perhaps buying phones at full price benefits the corporation, but it sure hurts the stores much more than it benefits. So don't lecture me your Econ 101 trash. I'm not buying it.

Posted by: Neutron1998

B-Money, it's reps like that that make me hate going into a Cingular store. Basically reps like you put existing customers second. Why would we want to continue our service if we get treated that way?

When I had a question regarding transferring contacts from my old MPx220 to my 8525 I was told one thing on the phone, and when I got to the store I was treated like I shouldn't have had the 8525.

Posted by: mk112002

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivwshane

That maybe the practice in electronic retailing, but it is a totally different story for a regulated cell operator to engage in deceptive advertising.

Posted by: Perceptions

Quote:

Originally Posted by B-Money

So you're telling someone to be dishonest about putting on a PDA plan just to get the phone? Real smooth. So basically everybody on this thread, myself included, is using deceit to get exactly what they want! This is what i'm learning, anyways. It's all a game that everyone plays.

I admit that my suggestion from the previous post is no better than reps saying phones are not available but it levels the playing field. For the record, the majority of reps are more incline to lie and say the phone is not avaliable rather than say they are holding the phone for more desirable customers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by B-Money

If you can't buy a PS3 in the store, you go online to buy it, or you wait until more are available in the store.

Correct, because you have so many points of purchase. Brick and Mortar Retail Stores (Best Buy, Target, etc...), Online Retailers (Amazon, buy.com, etc...), or Ebay. You can only buy Cingular phones from Cingular (store or phone) or Ebay/Craigslist. Also note that in the PS3 example retailers charge a premium while Cingular does not for its phones. Simple Economics says you can charge more when demand is higher.

Quote:

Originally Posted by B-Money

When customers call our store to buy a highly desired phone at full retail, we simply say the phones are not available. You want a Blackjack? I'll sell you one at full retail. We have enough. But not 8525s or Pearls. Even if I tried, my manager and my co-workers would hang me at dawn.

Yea I know exactly how it occurs. Customer calls and ask for availability, rep asks if its for contract or outright purchase, put the customer on hold, then come back 'sorry, not in stock." Customers should always say "for contract purchase with data plan" in order to get an honest answer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by B-Money

Cingular stores, however, have no method of taking orders or requesting additional phones. They just get sent to us.

Cingular should really improve its inventory management.

Quote:

Originally Posted by B-Money

Cingular stores are made with the purpose of selling phones and generating numbers for the corporation, first and foremost. If you think it's illegal, you bring it up with my company.

Quote:

Originally Posted by B-Money

You said that low pay is something that I should complain to the company; Every rep has complained about pay, but no matter how much us reps complain, We're the bottom of the totem pole. They don't listen. So we do what we can to survive.

So which one is it B-Money? Are you looking out for the company's interest or your own needs? This is why there is a problem. Reps blame the Cingular but they perpetuate the problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by B-Money

If we have a family come in that wants to get new service, and they want a phone that we don't have because we gave all of them out to existing customers who paid full price, they will leave and go somewhere else. Chances are they'll go to a different wireless carrier. But one thing for sure: our store loses that customer forever.

Again, Cingular should really improve its inventory management.

Quote:

Originally Posted by B-Money

Please explain in "Econ 101" how this helps us.

It doesn't. The reality is that store reps are no longer that important to the company which is why they get the shaft. Let me explain this: Reps in the store are important, the quality of rep is no longer important. Since the introduction of the Sales Process they have pushed to make the process the same whether you enter a store in California or Atlanta. While the company says that this is to imporve customer satisfaction the reality is that they have made selling phones as easy as possible. This allows for Cingular to deal with the high employee turnover as well as being able to bring in less qualified people to do the same job.

Posted by: IQMGT

Quote:

Originally Posted by B-Money

If you can't buy a PS3 in the store, you go online to buy it, or you wait until more are available in the store. When customers call our store to buy a highly desired phone at full retail, we simply say the phones are not available. You want a Blackjack? I'll sell you one at full retail. We have enough. But not 8525s or Pearls. Even if I tried, my manager and my co-workers would hang me at dawn.

If the store has PS3s in stock though, they have to sell them. They can't refuse to sell them if you won't buy their bundle unless the bundle was the only way it was advertised to the public. For example, someone mentioned Bestbuy. When the Xbox 360 came out, a few store in Washington would only sell to the people who waited in line at launch who bought the bundle package. The advertised price in Bestbuy's ad was the regular retail price. People started blogging about it. When corporate found out about this a few days later, the store was forced to refund all of bundled accessories a customer purchased if the customer wanted to, as the stores actions violated the law. Had they not of done so, they would have faced fines from the Federal Trade Commission.

Quote:

If you can show me where it's illegal, then i'll recognize that you have a valid point. Until then, I don't see any place where it says it's illegal. If it were, then we would be forbidden from our company to do what we do. We certainly aren't discouraged from doing it. Quite the contrary. There are still plenty of avenues that can be taken to buy yourself a new phone at no commitment, many of which are cheaper than offered in the store. Customer care. Internet. Many companies have Cingular "order-takers" that can specially order you a phone at full retail. Cingular stores, however, have no method of taking orders or requesting additional phones. They just get sent to us.

Just because something is illegal doesn't mean a corporation won't do it. If that was the case, the FTC would never have to fine companies. It's certainly possible your legal department has no idea that this is taking place. For if they did, they would put an end to it As for proof, check out this link. http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/guides/baitads-gd.htm

Note how for the sake of federal law, advertising includes any form of public notice however disseminated or utilized. That includes your in store price tags. Also of relevance.

"The refusal to show, demonstrate, or sell the product offered in accordance with the terms of the offer."

"The failure to have available at all outlets listed in the advertisement a sufficient quantity of the advertised product to meet reasonably anticipated demands, unless the advertisement clearly and adequately discloses that supply is limited and/or the merchandise is available only at designated outlets,"

"Use of a sales plan or method of compensation for salesmen or penalizing salesmen, designed to prevent or discourage them from selling the advertised product."

Quote:

Cingular stores are made with the purpose of selling phones and generating numbers for the corporation, first and foremost. If you think it's illegal, you bring it up with my company. You said that low pay is something that I should complain to the company; Every rep has complained about pay, but no matter how much us reps complain, We're the bottom of the totem pole. They don't listen. So we do what we can to survive.

I sympathize that the company puts a lot of pressure on the sales people to meet quotas. But unfortunately, that does not give the stores the ability to break the law. If this edict is coming from corporate, than the company needs to change their policy accordingly. Once federal regulators get involved, Cingular will be paying a lot more in fines than the profit they get from selling these limited quantity phones with contracts only.

Posted by: asdrew

"we simply say the phones are not available"

So B-Money admits he out and out LIES to customers. nice. That'll get him far.

Hope he sleeps well at night. I sure hate liars, I'm pretty sure most people do.

Liar, liar pants on fire! lol

Posted by: ieee1394

Quote:

Originally Posted by B-Money

.

If you can show me where it's illegal, then i'll recognize that you have a valid point. Until then, I don't see any place where it says it's illegal.

Clayton Antitrust Act of 1914, an extension of the Sherman Antitrust Act of 1890.

Title 15, Chapter 1, Section 13a) Price; selection of customers...

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/h...13----000-.html

As someone else pointed out, just because an activity may be illegal, it doesn't mean that a corporation (or its agents) are going to avoid engaging in the activity. Happens all the time: "Until we get caught..."

I guess Cingular could argue that the phones are available elsewhere, but a reasonable person would expect to be able to buy a phone from their carrier whenever they want if the phone is (in fact) available and the price is acceptable to both parties in the transaction. I think it could be argued that Cingular agents that deny current subscribers from purchasing new phones are engaging in favoritism and price discrimination by, in effect, saying that a current customer can only get a new phone (an 8525 in this case) if they agree to ADD A NEW SUBSCRIPTION. Which then results in an undue hardship for the customer...which is also illegal.

Posted by: B-Money

I appreciate the research put into this matter. I will definitely look into it.

"Until they get caught..." so catch them already! If that's really the case, then it will be really easy for you to win a lawsuit.

So let me play you a "damned if i do, damned if i don't" scenario that typically occurs when a new PDA comes out. Let's say I have one 8525 left in stock. I have 2 people who want it: 1 new customer looking to get a new contract, and 1 existing customer who already has a phone. And they're both waiting for me to make a decision, who to give the phone to? The new customer, if he doesn't get the phone he wants, will leave the store swearing and cursing at me, never come back, and I lost myself another customer, another sale. The existing customer, if he doesn't get the phone he wants, still has a phone and service, and may need to wait an extra couple of weeks to get the phone, but until then, that customer is still okay (though they'll still probably swear and curse at me anyway. Such is the life of a salesman). If i give it to the existing customer, I lose the new customer. If i give it to the new customer, the existing customer still exists. What do i want to do (and what would Cingular want me to do)? Give it to the new customer. Plain and simple. This is the mind of a salesman. If I'm a bad person for this, I'm sorry. Either way, I'm going to have someone mad at me! So, since I'm put into the position of having someone hate me, at least I can work to achieve my quota and make a little $$. Just put yourself in my shoes.

Like I've been quoted, I will GLADLY sell out a phone at full retail when we have enough in inventory. I've done so many many times, and there's even been times my co-workers have chastised me for it. But when a brand new phone comes out and the nearest store only has 5 or less in stock, all you really need to do is wait for another 3-4 weeks and, voila, any rep in any store will be happy to sell it to you.

Like any salesman, how you word things is very important. That's why I don't say "we're out of stock". I say they're "not available". Perhaps you think that's the same thing. But sales reps learn how to word things just the right way. If we don't even have enough phones to support our new customers walking through the door, then how can we have enough to support existing customers just looking to upgrade their phones? Thus, they are not available.

"Reps blame Cingular but they perpetuate the problem." Not really. We help our company make profit, then get treated like bologna. I was simply showing that the stores care about numbers and so do the reps---the motive for both is to make money. When neither store nor rep makes anything off of just "throwing away" a hot commodity, you will find it very difficult for them to do it. And it doesn't help that most wireless carriers give out less and less commission as time goes by, thus causing us reps to do more to make the same exact amount. (And to answer the question i know is coming next, yes I am looking for another job.)

Now that I've gone through the gauntlet, let me explain my purpose in contributing to this thread. You won't believe it, but I'm actually very upfront and honest about how things are. I'm just telling you how it is. Whether or not you like it, that's how every sales rep is. This is the way we look at things, and I'm just trying to help you see our side, whether you agree with it or not. At least try to put yourself in our shoes. You can hate me. Salesmen are used to being hated! It happens every day, even when I am being truly honest. It takes a lot out of a person. But I at least can sleep at night because i'm doing everything I possibly can to support my family.

PS. "Cingular should really improve its inventory management." AMEN! That's what I keep trying to tell them. That's what it all comes down to...since we don't receive enough quantity, then we're up a creek; a creek where we are then forced into this situation y'all are chewing me out about.

Thank you for your time and energy. I will read responses but I've already said everything I've needed to. I can't think of any other way to say it.

Posted by: princeasi

Quote:

Originally Posted by B-Money

I appreciate the research put into this matter. I will definitely look into it.

"Until they get caught..." so catch them already! If that's really the case, then it will be really easy for you to win a lawsuit.

So let me play you a "damned if i do, damned if i don't" scenario that typically occurs when a new PDA comes out. Let's say I have one 8525 left in stock. I have 2 people who want it: 1 new customer looking to get a new contract, and 1 existing customer who already has a phone. And they're both waiting for me to make a decision, who to give the phone to? The new customer, if he doesn't get the phone he wants, will leave the store swearing and cursing at me, never come back, and I lost myself another customer, another sale. The existing customer, if he doesn't get the phone he wants, still has a phone and service, and may need to wait an extra couple of weeks to get the phone, but until then, that customer is still okay (though they'll still probably swear and curse at me anyway. Such is the life of a salesman). If i give it to the existing customer, I lose the new customer. If i give it to the new customer, the existing customer still exists. What do i want to do (and what would Cingular want me to do)? Give it to the new customer. Plain and simple. This is the mind of a salesman. If I'm a bad person for this, I'm sorry. Either way, I'm going to have someone mad at me! So, since I'm put into the position of having someone hate me, at least I can work to achieve my quota and make a little $$. Just put yourself in my shoes.

Like I've been quoted, I will GLADLY sell out a phone at full retail when we have enough in inventory. I've done so many many times, and there's even been times my co-workers have chastised me for it. But when a brand new phone comes out and the nearest store only has 5 or less in stock, all you really need to do is wait for another 3-4 weeks and, voila, any rep in any store will be happy to sell it to you.

Between the 2 customers, its who acquired 1st. 1st come, 1st served! How can 1 be mad if the early bird caught the worm! Also, a new customer is not guaranteed, they're under the 30 day trial period just like others when purchasing new service or a phone! whos to say that customer wouldnt cancel service on the 29th day and return the phone, and start service with alltel lol. Now you got an angry loyal customer who actually kept service with cingular for 5+ years thinking of canceling service, not caring about the $175 earlier termination fee! Now in this situation cingular lost out greater! A bird in a hand is sometimes better than 2 in bush! But cingular really dont care about customer service, its all about the numbers!

Posted by: FallN

Agreed! 1st come, 1st served! None of this "reserving stock" for specific people. Remember, we are ALL customers! Regardless of tenure! If the renewing/current customer comes in first, he/she shoudl get the device. If the new customer came in first, then the new customer gets the device. Early bird gets the worm!

Posted by: B-Money

True enough, perhaps. It is never guaranteed the new customer sticks around. But that's just how a sales rep thinks. Any wireless carrier loves longevity, but try convincing the sales rep the same thing.

It's kind of like when you go to a restaurant and your waiter is serving more than one table at the same time. Which table will get the better service? The one with the bigger check---because the thinking process for that waiter, is chances are the table with the bigger check will tip better. It may not be fair, and it's never guaranteed that they will even tip better, but that's how a waiter thinks.

Posted by: patricksm

I've been reading on several forums now, including Cingular's own user forum, that people are having a very hard time trying to purchase the 8525, due to either low inventory or Cingular only selling to new or upgrade customers. Granted, my service was due for an upgrade, but all I did was call the downtown Cingular store in Seattle (the one in Pacific Place), ask if they had it stock, they held it for me and I went to the store to purchase, all within a couple of hours. I guess I'll attribute it to pure luck, sorry to hear so many others are having problems. Keep trying, the 8525 is worth it!

Posted by: y2jdmbfan

PM me if someone needs one, I have one that I used for about a week till I decided the device isn't for me.

Thanks,

Y2J

Posted by: Mesto

^ I need one.. how much you selling it for?

Posted by: chrisjf

get over it.. as if that's the only place you can buy one.

you're just pissy because you had to go out of your way. suck it up. that's life.

that's sales. let them do what they got to do.

Posted by: VeeralS05

well....i work @ cingular... and they wouldnt ship us any 8525's until we had a certain amount of our 8125's sold out of inventory...

Posted by: Cennatra

Buncha rocket scientists on here.

Posted by: dr.RW

Quote:

Originally Posted by chrisjf

get over it.. as if that's the only place you can buy one.

you're just pissy because you had to go out of your way. suck it up. that's life.

that's sales. let them do what they got to do.

That is one of the stupidest posts I have ever read. You have not only missed the point, you have insulted someone who you do not know without having any idea of what the law is or for that matter what the real world is about.

I shouldn't waste my time lecturing someone as clueless as you, but I am feeling charitable today, so here goes.

You can not just "let them do what they got to do". While this sounds simple and reasonable to a teenager, in the real world there are laws that govern business practices and consequences to breaking those laws. If you are fine with someone breaking the law because it will help them out financially, then leave your doors and windows unlocked and let people steal all your things, because, hey, they're just doing what they got to do, right?

Posted by: princeasi

Quote:

Originally Posted by dr.RW

yeah i saw it too! With only 2 post and such a silly statement, its a waste to even explain anymore! I think there's enough information and role play examples in this thread for both cingular customers and employees to learn from! Evidently he didnt read thru the entire thread, or have problems with reading comprehension, otherwise he wouldnt have made such a stupid comment! This thread needs to be locked, so that we dont get anymore stupid posts!

Posted by: thinlyveiled

Quote:

Originally Posted by dr.RW

You have not only missed the point, you have insulted someone who you do not know without having any idea of what the law is

Are you an attorney?

Posted by: dr.RW

Quote:

Originally Posted by thinlyveiled

Are you an attorney?

Are you being sarcastic or are you just inquiring out of curiosity?

Posted by: thinlyveiled

Quote:

Originally Posted by dr.RW

Are you being sarcastic or are you just inquiring out of curiosity?

No, I'm not being sarcastic. You keep talking about the law, so I was wondering whether you are an attorney.

Posted by: Cennatra

So at th