vB Easy Archive - Have I been busted

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Have I been busted
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Posted by: jsclifton

Got a 8125 w/unlimited media net when it first came out. Used it very happily until I was running to my car in the rain and the 8125 flung form the hip holster and landed in a puddle. No more 8125. That wasn’t so bad though the 8525 came out two weeks latter. Activated the 8525 on a new 3G sim and presto magic my world was good again. Yesterday my Media Max connection stopped working. Went through the KB article checked the settings but no joy. No biggie did a hard reset but no luck. Chatted with tech support and they couldn’t help. Plugged in my buddies sim and presto data works so there isn’t a problem with the phone. Go to a corp store activate a new sim but still no joy. Finally stick my new sim in my old v551 and I can get to media net.

So has it come to this. Has Cingular finally started blocking Unlimited Media Net plan holders from using PDAs? Has anyone else had this experience????????

I only use around 40MB a month and just can’t stomach a $40 bill for that access. I wish there was some middle ground on data plans. While a business can justify the payback on that expense I have to convince my wife of its value. So far I’ve lost.

Posted by: blessd24

I hope so. I'm tired of people cheating the system. Its freaking stealing, why does no one else see that?

See sig.

Posted by: Omega2008

Its not steeling. Its only steeling when you use way more data than you should on the plan you have. If you don't use that much data then whats the point? I have a Cingular Sync with MEdia Net Unlimited....I neted over 100 mb of data use....my 8525 with the same plan 20 mb....so why should I pay for a PDA connect plan when I can use the same amount of data on any other phone??? I shouldn't. PDA Connect is for people with PDAs who want to tether. Media Net Unlimited was not ment for tethering but you can get away with it. I have talked with a reperesentive from the office of the president about this, me and her are good friends I have known her for years and that is what she told me. However she says that this is all hard to understand because it hasn't been marketed correctly. Take what I say with a grain of salt.

Posted by: jsclifton

Like with all things, in time, I do think a better balance of service and price will emerge. Competition has the constant effect of driving value into the equation. I just wish the process was faster.

As far as your holier than thou, self righteous condemnation of my theft it belays the smallness of your existence. To spend ones time passing judgment on members of a community rather then helping is sad.

Happy Holidays,

Jason

Posted by: blessd24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega2008

Its not steeling. Its only steeling when you use way more data than you should on the plan you have. If you don't use that much data then whats the point? I have a Cingular Sync with MEdia Net Unlimited....I neted over 100 mb of data use....my 8525 with the same plan 20 mb....so why should I pay for a PDA connect plan when I can use the same amount of data on any other phone??? I shouldn't. PDA Connect is for people with PDAs who want to tether. Media Net Unlimited was not ment for tethering but you can get away with it. I have talked with a reperesentive from the office of the president about this, me and her are good friends I have known her for years and that is what she told me. However she says that this is all hard to understand because it hasn't been marketed correctly. Take what I say with a grain of salt.

Wrong. To tether you need the 59.99 laptop connect plan. PDA connect is for people who want to use their PDA's to access the interent and get emails. See my sig.

Point taken on the amount of data you use. That makes sense to me.

Posted by: blessd24

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsclifton

Like with all things, in time, I do think a better balance of service and price will emerge. Competition has the constant effect of driving value into the equation. I just wish the process was faster.

As far as your holier than thou, self righteous condemnation of my theft it belays the smallness of your existence. To spend ones time passing judgment on members of a community rather then helping is sad.

Happy Holidays,

Jason

Not trying to give a holier than thou additude. I call it theft and if that offends you then sorry. I don't make the rules I am just telling you the rules Cingular has laid down.

What would you like me to do to help? I do help with peoples problems all the time. I try to answer questions more often than I ask them. I'm glad you have followed me around enough to know that I spend all my time passing judgements on others. (Oh and I can judge you if its clear actions of wrong doing, although I wouldnt put it past some uninformed Cingular rep to tell you wrongly)

Merry Christmas to you to. Classy with the Byte me thing also.

Posted by: iJITSU

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsclifton

By labeling him holier than thou, self-righteous, and suggesting that he has a small existence, haven't you in essence done the very thing (passing judgement) you are criticizing him for?

Posted by: jsclifton

Yes I have indeed given in to a distracting rant. I have effectively hijacked my own thread and managed to guarantee I would not get a answer for the problem at hand.

This thread also has a similar feel of unexplained dysfunction.

http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=1072323

Posted by: iJITSU

I would answer your question if I could but I don't have a PDA to test the theory and I haven't read anything about someone having a similar issue. If I see anything I'll post back here.

Posted by: Omega2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by blessd24

Sorry I am not wrong. But to each there own. I have been doing this for years and there is nothing wrong with it. If I ever start to tether I will play it safe and get the PDA connect plan which DOES alow tethering.

Posted by: Bob34

Quote:

Originally Posted by blessd24

Well, because Cingular lacks the foresight, the expertise, the greed, or the will to have a multitude of plans to deal with differing phones and happily decides to levy a exorbitant price tag for a phone because it has Qwerty Keyboard as somehow thats a key indication that their data usage would differ largely from one without it or they decide arbitrarily that the extras found in others plans aren't needed when the phones are being used in similiar fashions is all rather rediculous. If people don't feel the need to bend over and grab their ankles and do not share the opinion that the consumer is somehow being blessed with whatever Cingular in its infinite wisdom decides to bestow on them, then so be it.

The OP was inquiring if it could be user misconfiguration or if his plan is really no longer valid, not asking for a lecture from someone maintaining a overly simplistic moral and ethical code, where its central, circular edict is "it's the rules, so you have to follow it, because it's the rules". So, it comes to no surprise that one would lash out with righteous indignation against someone offering up a judgment on their morality when they weren't requesting one.

To the OP, I do find it odd that it works in your v551 but not your 8525. Does the GSM/3G specifications provide an ability for the carrier to know what phone the SIM is in?

Posted by: Omega2008

Yes they will know what phones your SIM card has been in.

To the OP:

Make sure your data settings are correct, I will post mine:

This for the My ISP GPRS Setting:

This is what I have for the following fields:

Name: My ISP GPRS
Select a Modem: Cellular Line (GPRS, 3G)
Access point: wap.cingular
User Name:WAP@CINGULARGPRS.COM
Password: CINGULAR1
Domain: empty

Now also make sure you do the hack to enable the bands tab in Start, Settings, Phone and set your bands and service accordingly.

Posted by: TriAxis

So what does everyone think a fair amount of data use with the 19.99 MediaMax plan. I'm currently at 90 MB for 18 days of use. I figure I might use 150 MB for the month. Is that excessive, normal, or below normal? Should I upgrade to the PDA Connect plan or just not worry about it?

Posted by: Omega2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by TriAxis

So what does everyone think a fair amount of data use with the 19.99 MediaMax plan. I'm currently at 90 MB for 18 days of use. I figure I might use 150 MB for the month. Is that excessive, normal, or below normal? Should I upgrade to the PDA Connect plan or just not worry about it?

Don't worry about it...I think the PDA plans and the Smartphone plans are garbage if you use more data. Like I said I bused over 100megs of data on a Cingular SYNC which is just a regular old UMTS phone yet I only use 18megs on my 8525 in one month. Whats the point of having data plans for each device because they are a PDA or a Smartphone they all use data and each has the potential to use just as much as the other. I think you should get a PDA or Smarpthone Connect plan if you plan on tethering. If you plan on using your phone as a primary internet connection then get the Laptop Connect Plan. Other than that I don't see whats the big friggin difference. When I had my 8125 in one month I used 200megs of data with NO tethering. Cingular didn't do anything.....why because any other phone could of done the same and they knew that all the data was comming from my device not a tethered connection. Thats my 2 cents on the subject. I think your fine TriAxis personally I wouldn't change anything unless you tether alot.

Posted by: jsclifton

My average over for most of the year is around 40MB. This month I could hit 45MB if it worked. I think $20 is fair and $40 for me is out of line for the benefit.

Posted by: rosullivan04

I share Omega's POV on this whole situation after talking with many higher-ups in the company. It is entirely unreasonable to expect people to pay $40/Mo. for reasonable usage on their PDAs for internet. You can use just as much on a regular phone nowadays. With that being said, I use on average 200MB/Mo on my phone with my MEW1 plan - IMHO this is reasonable usage.

Posted by: Cowboyshootist

Quote:

Originally Posted by blessd24

I hope so. I'm tired of people cheating the system. Its freaking stealing, why does no one else see that?

See sig.

The question is who is doing the stealing? In my opinion it's Cingular. The billing options for wireless data at Cingular are just nonsense.

Posted by: torifile

So we can have "unlimited" data as long as we don't really use it? That's a load of crap. Does Cingular give you fanboys special deals or do you just spout the party line for free?

Posted by: jsclifton

Thanks to Omega2008 for the help. The settings have always been correct in the phone. I did enable the bands tab. Forced it to the GPRS network and it connected. Stopped the connection and set the bands back to auto and viola now it connects and all is well on 3G.

So the settings in the phone were always correct. New sim didn’t help. Cingular tech support didn’t figure it out. But a user here came up with a helpful answer. Get that person a Budweiser.

Posted by: Omega2008

Glad that solved your problem. *drinks beer* Thank you sir!

Posted by: importluva

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cowboyshootist

The question is who is doing the stealing? In my opinion it's Cingular. The billing options for wireless data at Cingular are just nonsense.

Yes, Cingular is stealing because it offers data at a price that individuals and businesses are willing to pay. Cable in my area is more expensive than DSL in my area for the same speed, guess the cable company is also a thief. BMWs are also more expensive than Chevys, guess BMW is also a thief.

Posted by: importluva

Quote:

Originally Posted by rosullivan04

I share Omega's POV on this whole situation after talking with many higher-ups in the company. It is entirely unreasonable to expect people to pay $40/Mo. for reasonable usage on their PDAs for internet. You can use just as much on a regular phone nowadays. With that being said, I use on average 200MB/Mo on my phone with my MEW1 plan - IMHO this is reasonable usage.

I would say you're borderline, but ok. But once you breach 400-500mb/month, then you really need to get yourself on PDAconnect. Its the RIGHT thing to do not just for cingular, but other users that DO pay for it.

And your financial situation (or wife) doesn't give you a valid excuse to stay off of the correct plan (once again, 40-50mb a month is fine with MEdiamax IMO; 10x that is not). If you need cheap data because you can't afford it, then there's T-Mobile, Sprint, or wifi hotspots.

Posted by: Omega2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by importluva

LOL......I hope you guys see that none are a thief....Cingular is a company, companies exist to make a profit, hence why the have these data plans that are not necessary but bring more profits. Is is right, well thats one prespective but who am I to argue.

Posted by: importluva

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega2008

I wouldn't really call anyone a thief either. Cingular is out to make a profit, and the company is NOT a monopoly, so it can charge what the market is willing to pay. VZW can also do this. Why? Because they both have the large networks to be able to do that where people find extra VALUE that they don't see with T-Mobile or Sprint/Nextel.

Posted by: rosullivan04

Did I ever list a financial situation as my reason for sticking with MEW1? Obviously I don't care about that aspect since my other line is a aircard with laptop connect unlimited. I have no problem paying for the appropriate plan... like I stated earlier I believe MEW1 and Media Net Unlimited are appropriate plans for usage such as mine and the others in this thread. In theory, the RIGHT thing to do would be for Cingular to list the maximum amount of data they want you to use on their plans. Instead, they have invisible limits that you discover once your service is terminated... who is doing the RIGHT thing here? It is dishonest to list unlimited and then complain when people make use of it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by importluva

Posted by: importluva

Quote:

Originally Posted by rosullivan04

Did I ever list a financial situation as my reason for sticking with MEW1? Obviously I don't care about that aspect since my other line is a aircard with laptop connect unlimited. I have no problem paying for the appropriate plan... like I stated earlier I believe MEW1 and Media Net Unlimited are appropriate plans for usage such as mine and the others in this thread. In theory, the RIGHT thing to do would be for Cingular to list the maximum amount of data they want you to use on their plans. Instead, they have invisible limits that you discover once your service is terminated... who is doing the RIGHT thing here? It is dishonest to list unlimited and then complain when people make use of it.

well, I wasn't directing the second paragraph at anyone in particular, that's why I made a break in the post (but I should have clarified and dismissed the use of "AND"). Anyways, I haven't heard of anyone getting terminated by Cingular for useage, but it has happened on VZW. You have to realize that in legalese, unlimited really means reasonably unlimited (we are a country run by lawyers in that sense). 5gb on a PDA data plan isn't really reasonable, I'm not even sure how one would do that without downloading torrents and other P2P groups. Obviously, there are legitimate business uses where one could incur 5GB, but realistically, I would consider it abuse via the company's TOS.
And I agree about having actual quantitative limits. MEdiaMax should have something like a 200mb limit. PDAconnect should be limited to 3GB or so. Tethering should be limited to 5GB. Something like that. But before companies can start doing that, they would need a more accurate data useage that you can view on your phone (like checking minutes left).

Posted by: strikeIII

i don't care what the print says, but when cingular tells me i'm fine then i why would i fight it...i've asked number of cingular reps if having my MediaMax 200 is fine and they say, YES...so if the people who work for the company say it's okay then i'm DEFINITELY not stealing and if those cingular reps are wrong then cingular can't penalize the customer for being misled...besides like others have stated i don't tether so as a customer for cingular i don't see why i have to pay for a PDA plan when i use an average of 40-50Mbs per month and i can do the same amount of data on a regualar phone and on my 8525...so why pay more for the samething and if cingular gives me the green light then who is someone in here to tell me whats wrong or right...don't hate because you decide to pay more than others...cheers...

Posted by: holaDude

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega2008

No it doesn't. PDA connect is for only using it for surfing the net from the device or checking email. No where does it state that you can use it to tether to a laptop.

Quote:

With PDA Connect you can browse the Internet and access e-mail from your PDA device.

Choose PDA Connect Unlimited and you'll also receive the Xpress Mail feature. Xpress Mail allows you to access your corporate email and calendar. It also provides the ability to view attachments, lookup employees in a global address directory, and view email from a PC browser on a variety of handsets.

In order to tether to a laptop, you are required to add a data connect plan to your account.

Posted by: importluva

Quote:

Originally Posted by strikeIII

i don't care what the print says, but when cingular tells me i'm fine then i why would i fight it...i've asked number of cingular reps if having my MediaMax 200 is fine and they say, YES...so if the people who work for the company say it's okay then i'm DEFINITELY not stealing and if those cingular reps are wrong then cingular can't penalize the customer for being misled...besides like others have stated i don't tether so as a customer for cingular i don't see why i have to pay for a PDA plan when i use an average of 40-50Mbs per month and i can do the same amount of data on a regualar phone and on my 8525...so why pay more for the samething and if cingular gives me the green light then who is someone in here to tell me whats wrong or right...don't hate because you decide to pay more than others...cheers...

you're not being misled if you know of Cingular's TOS. You're just choosing to ignore what you know is Cingular's official policy in favor of what you want to hear from these reps. Its all up to the individual to do what they want.

Posted by: iJITSU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob34

.

The OP was inquiring if it could be user misconfiguration or if his plan is really no longer valid, not asking for a lecture from someone maintaining a overly simplistic moral and ethical code, where its central, circular edict is "it's the rules, so you have to follow it, because it's the rules". So, it comes to no surprise that one would lash out with righteous indignation against someone offering up a judgment on their morality when they weren't requesting one.

And the second poster didn't ask for someone to pass judgement on his views labeling his moral and ethical code "overly simplistic" based on information drawn from a couple of posts. Should he respond with "righteous indignation" at your offering up a judgement on his morals or ethics as well?

Posted by: jeslevine

Quote:

Originally Posted by blessd24

I hope so. I'm tired of people cheating the system. Its freaking stealing, why does no one else see that?

See sig.

1. I had a 8125, and now an 8525, in both cases. I never had a PDA plan, and when I ordered MediaNet for my phones, there was Never a question that this was NOT allowed for either the 8125 OR the 8525. In fact if you order MediaNet online there ALSO isn't a problem with your PDA phone ordering it.

What you are implying is that Cingular has no idea what is on their web site, or that there sales people are all idiots when they allow people with PDAs to buy MediaNet. I think not. Please provide the link where it says people who have PDAs cannot add MediaNet to there service.

In fact when you sign-up for Media Net, they tell you that may not be able to access some sites with Media Net, which you could with a PDA plan

People are NOT cheating by ordering Media Net for their PDAs through Cingular IF CINGULAR ALLOWS THEM TO DO IT.

Posted by: jeslevine

Quote:

Originally Posted by blessd24

Incidently, I don't tether, but if I did, THAT WOULD BE CHEATING because that is specifically against the Media Net agreement which I AGREED TO

Posted by: RF9

Interesting:
"MEdia Net packages are not intended for tethering. Cingular reserves the right to remove customers from MEdia Net packages for the use of a wireless device as an interface to other devices or networks, as determined by Cingular, including but not limited to device tethering."
So it's not intended for tethering, but doesn't say it's forbidden or not allowed.
It merely says they reserve the right remove it if you do.

This type of soft language implies that it's merely not intended for tethering, but it is allowed and they will only kick you off if you abuse it.
I think that if it were actually forbidden, they'd have no problem saying that. I don't think it's a mistake that they used the words "not intended".

Or maybe I'm just smoking crack.

Sorry, tethering is not the subject of this thread, but since so many arguments are being thrown around about TOS and whatnot, I decided to look in to the media net language.

It does specifically say that "MEdia bundles are not available on PDAs, RIM devices, or Laptop Modem Cards"
Again, says nothing about it being forbidden (or similar wording) for use on a PDA, just that it's not 'available.'

What does one do when they want something that's not available? You find it another way (like buy it elsewhere.)
Or what if it IS available on the web site and you buy it? Where's the language that say's you're not allowed to keep using it?

All of this talk about tethering not being allowed, and PDA's aren't allowed, I just don't see any language that actually says this.
Or is there another TOS elsewhere that reads different?

Posted by: ancker

Quote:

Originally Posted by importluva

I think you're wrong here. Its the JOB of the Cingular rep to know the rules and enforce them when selling plans.

When I bought my 680, from a Cingular Corp store, I asked what plans I could get, I was told flat out: "You have to buy the 44.95 plan if you want the $100 rebate, or you can get the Unlimited Smartphone connect plan for 19.99, which will do pretty much everything you want to do"

I said I'd take the cheaper one. No questions asked, they added it to my plan activated my 680, and said have a good day. Someone off the street isn't going to read the TOS of plans before they walk in the door and ask for help in picking out a plan. If Cingular thinks its stealing, they'd have a list of plans that are allowed for each phone and simply NOT let you use one that isn't.

Let me ask you this. If you walked into a Car Dealership and the dealer offered you a car for $4000 less than MSRP and 2%APR lower than what they're advertising, would you say "No sir, your sign says its $4000 more and 2%APR more, if I took your offer, I'd be stealing." And then offer to pay the higher price? OF COURSE NOT.

Many of you will immediately say this "isn't the same thing" But it is. Cingular is a company, which sells a service and/or goods. If they chose to sell you something cheaper than listed, you are under no obligation to correct them and pay the correct price. This isn't being dishonest, its called being a consumer.

I do believe that if you use services that aren't supported on the plan that you DO pay for, that that is dishonest. If you need to tether, buy the plan that allows it. As far as data, buy whatever plan works with your phone. If Cingular wants to sell you a cheaper plan, go for it.

/ancker

Posted by: importluva

When you go through to buy/upgrade a PDA, MEdiaNet/Max usually isn't an available choice. The act of Adding PDAconnect, then calling CS, NOT mentioning your phone (or just saying you have a RAZR) is going through a loophole. That's really not a debate, there are multiple threads/posts advising people to do this.

Anyways, the website lists the compatible phones as well, and leaves out any PDAphone. That's another indication. Regardless, adding MEdia Bundles to your account if you have a PDA is just getting around the system. But just like anything else, if you're using 50mb a month, then I say go for the cheaper MEdia Bundle. But once you use the internet on your PDA often, streaming videos from ORB/Slingbox, going to graphic intensive websites meant for the desktop, tethering, and just burning hundreds of MB/month, its time to move up.

Posted by: importluva

Quote:

Originally Posted by ancker

all I said is that no one is misleading you. However, in terms of the car example - yea, that's normal industry practice to have discounts on cars, its called a sale. That discount doesn't last into perpetuity because its a limited time offer.

Now, as the principal, Cingular is responsible for its agents' actions, so yea, you wouldn't be in violation. But I do know that many reps (phone or store) will tell you MEdia Bundles are not allowed on your PDAphone and won't sell you the device with it on there. Then what if you go home, call cingular, tell the rep you have a RAZR and want MEdiaMax, and they give it to you? Is THAT cingular's fault?

Posted by: Omega2008

Quote:

No it doesn't. PDA connect is for only using it for surfing the net from the device or checking email. No where does it state that you can use it to tether to a laptop.

That is what I have been told by upper level officals at Cingular. I know alot of them some are even personal friends and that is what they told me. So I believe them, however like you said it doesn't say you can or you can't in the TOS so its up in the air. So take what I say with a grain of salt. If you tether and use like 800mbs of data then yeah it would be right to get the Laptop Connect Plan.

Posted by: importluva

I find it funny that half of HoFo knows "upper level" officials at Cingular.

Posted by: Omega2008

LOL....well of course we do.

Posted by: lmychajluk

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega2008

"No it doesn't. PDA connect is for only using it for surfing the net from the device or checking email. No where does it state that you can use it to tether to a laptop."

That is what I have been told by upper level officals at Cingular. I know alot of them some are even personal friends and that is what they told me. So I believe them, however like you said it doesn't say you can or you can't in the TOS so its up in the air. So take what I say with a grain of salt. If you tether and use like 800mbs of data then yeah it would be right to get the Laptop Connect Plan.

From here:
Data Connect Plans
Access your e-mail, corporate intranet, and the Internet while on the go by wirelessly connecting your PDA to the Internet. Requires usage with a Cingular Wireless PDA.

From the Plan Terms link at the bottom of that link:
"...Furthermore, unlimited plans (except for DataConnect and Blackberry Tethered) cannot be used for any applications that tether the device (through use of, including without limitation, connection kits, other phone/PDA-to-computer accessories, Bluetooth® or any other wireless technology) to laptops, PCs, or other equipment for any purpose."

So, in reading that, if I have an Unlimited DataConnect plan, I am allowed to tether via a Cingular Wireless PDA, right?

Edit - Is PDA Connect an 'old' data plan? I saw it references here and there, but it's not listed under current data plans.

Posted by: Bob34

Quote:

Originally Posted by iJITSU

Do you actually think you're being clever? You are aware that the one of the fundamental requirements for morality and ethics (unless you're a personal relativist...

) is public discourse? The OP wasn't introducing, at the very least wasn't asking for an evaluative judgment, ethics into the mix, the other poster was, and thus opened up for his ethics to be refuted. You'll also notice I didn't close the door for him to rebuke me or further insult him by offering up the demeaning phrase "I'm sorry if that offends you". But nice try, and thanks for playing "Attempting to find a hypocrite".

To RF9, yeah you're correct in noticing the ambiguity of the language. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't assume a corporation with I'm sure a number of lawyers on retainer allowed that level of ambuiguity into their ToS by accident. That ambiguous language also reminds me of the language used to describe the Blackjack, one that has led many in this forum and Cingular's forum to believe it came with Office Mobile

Oh, but it was the infallible Cingular that created both texts so I'm sure it was done for a wholly justifiable and righteous reason

Then again, I thought deceptive advertising was suppose to go the way of Jim Crow laws and the denial of suffrage but I guess the mobile phone carriers are trying to bring back the good ol' days of "Caveat Emptor"

Posted by: Omega2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by lmychajluk

According to that yes you can. I guess I was told wrong if that is what is in the TOS. No matter I don't tether and when I do its for a very short amount of time. My father tethers and I got him the Laptop Connect Plan aka the DataConnect for 49.99 or whatever it is lol.

EDIT: I guess Data Connect is now PDA Connect hell I don't know lol Its all confusing. By the way would you please post the direct link to the TOS you got that info from? Thanks.

Posted by: princeasi

I have a GF plan(1500 txt, 200mms, unlmtd internt) with an 8525, mine still works flawlessly! Its funny that i read so much of this "its cheating to use media works with a pda" bs from some of these posters! Dont be mad at those who decided to not fall for those gimick data plans lolll! I probably use well over 1gig a month now since 3g kicked in! and it feels good! I pity the poor souls who switched from GF To PDA! lolllllllllllll

Posted by: importluva

Quote:

Originally Posted by princeasi

I have a GF plan(1500 txt, 200mms, unlmtd internt) with an 8525, mine still works flawlessly! Its funny that i read so much of this "its cheating to use media works with a pda" bs from some of these posters! Dont be mad at those who decided to not fall for those gimick data plans lolll! I probably use well over 1gig a month now since 3g kicked in! and it feels good! I pity the poor souls who switched from GF To PDA! lolllllllllllll

are you graduating high school in the spring? I'm sure mcdonalds is hiring.

Posted by: lmychajluk

Well, Data Connect is different than Laptop Connect as well. According to this link, the Laptop Connect plan is only for laptops using a PC Card modem.

Someone mentioned earlier in this thread that the average person doesn't read the ToS. Maybe I'm not the average person, but I'm considering switching to Cingular from VZW (who also has a convoluted data policy with ridiculous restrictions), and I'm scouring these pages for what I can and can't do with the data connection. For instance, I learned this morning that I'm technically not allowed to use Skype w/ the Data Connect (Prohibited uses include, but are not limited to, using Services: ... (iii) for Voice over IP). RSS may also be included in that ("automated data feeds" & "automated functions"), as well as pretty much any internet access ("machine-to-machine applications"). I'm wondering if the same laweyrs write these for VZW as Cingular, because it sounds very similar...

The bottom line is that all these various data services use the same network, so I can't see why the providers can't just provide a 1MB plan, a 5MB plan, 10MB, 25MB, 100MB and an Unlimited Plan that can be used across all devices and be done with it. That way the guy with the RAZR who streams Cingular Video all day and night and the guy that only uses his laptop data card to check email when he's out of the office can have the same options.

Edit -
Here's the direct link to the ToS.

Posted by: dwlace01

if they didn't want anyone with a PDA connect unlimited plan to use their phone to tether as a modem then they would not have the option to use your phone as a modem built into the OS of the phone.

Posted by: Omega2008

Well its right there in the TOS no thethering with any other plan accept for DataConnect and Blackberry Connect Tethered can be used to tether. They give you the option so if you get a DataConnect plan or a Blackberry Connect Tethered plan you can use it as a modem, you have to have the right plan. So thats solves it, either those two plans or your breaking the TOS. Cingular has finally made it clear.

Posted by: blessd24

I'm not really understanding this idea of using a limited amount on an unlimited plan. Why else would Cingular make different plans?

It would be easier for sure if they just gave an amount of data you could use. Oh and they do have a way to check the amount of data coming up. Its something like #Data. I'm not sure if its active yet.

Posted by: rosullivan04

Personal attacks are neither requested nor required in a response, no matter how badly written it is. Please keep your responses civilized and respectable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by importluva

are you graduating high school in the spring? I'm sure mcdonalds is hiring.

Posted by: importluva

Quote:

Originally Posted by rosullivan04

Personal attacks are neither requested nor required in a response, no matter how badly written it is. Please keep your responses civilized and respectable.

school's in session and I just got a detention.

Ugh.

Posted by: blessd24

Quote:

Originally Posted by dwlace01

if they didn't want anyone with a PDA connect unlimited plan to use their phone to tether as a modem then they would not have the option to use your phone as a modem built into the OS of the phone.

You can use the phone to tether. You just have to have the Laptop connect plan to use it as a modem.

Posted by: lmychajluk

No, we just went through this:

http://www.cingular.com/cell-phone-...phone-plans.jsp

Laptop Connect Plans (Unlimited w/ Voice Plan for $59)
Access your e-mail, corporate intranet, and the Internet while on the go by wirelessly connecting your laptop to the Internet using a PC card as your modem.

Data Connect Plans (Unlimited for $45 (-$5 w/ Voice Plan))
Access your e-mail, corporate intranet, and the Internet while on the go by wirelessly connecting your PDA to the Internet.
Along w/ the ToS:
"...Furthermore, unlimited plans (except for DataConnect and Blackberry Tethered) cannot be used for any applications that tether the device (through use of, including without limitation, connection kits, other phone/PDA-to-computer accessories, Bluetooth® or any other wireless technology) to laptops, PCs, or other equipment for any purpose."

Therefore, tethering is allowed with the Unlimited Data Connect plan. The Laptop Connect plan should not be used / associated with any phone or device other than a data card.

BTW - I found the PDA Connect Plan. If you go to the Cingular site and add the BJ to your cart, the PDA Connect Unlimited is listed as an available plan. (PDA Plan does not appear if you go to Shop/Plans/Data Plans.) However, it also lists the Data Connect 5/10/20 MB plans with the BJ, so I'm lead to believe that the PDA Connect Unlimited is actually the Data Connect Unlimited.

Posted by: KikoKazuma

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega2008

You are wrong, in a sense.

Let's make it clear what plan Cingular "wants you to have" as far as data is concerned:

- Data on a regular phone or smartphone = Media Net (Smartphone) plan

- Data on a PDA = PDA Connect plan (dataconnect for pda's)

- Data on a Blackberry = Blackberry plan

- Tethering with *any* phone/card = Dataconnect plan (laptop connect)

Whether you can tether with a plan other than the data connect plan is a different story. Will it work? Yes it can. Should you be using it? According to Cingular's terms....NO. Doing so doesn't fly.

Posted by: Omega2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by KikoKazuma

LOL if you read a few posts above I admited that I was wrong since I was going by what I was told and not buy the TOS, when one of the posters gave a direct link to the TOS I saw that I was wrong. In any case its nice to clear it up and get a perspecitive on it now. We all know that if you have to have a DataConnect Unlimited Plan or a Blackberry Connect Tethered Plan to tether your device to your computer to use it as a modem without violating the TOS.

Posted by: lmychajluk

KikoKazuma,
" Data on a regular phone or smartphone = Media Net (Smartphone) plan"

MediaNet is not the same as the Smartphone plan.

"- Tethering with *any* phone/card = Dataconnect plan (laptop connect)"

The Data Connect Plan is not the same as the Laptop Connect plan.

The data plans are described on this page:
http://www.cingular.com/cell-phone-...phone-plans.jsp

The way I read it is this:

All phones have MediaNet:
MediaNet allows you "Check email, send/receive instant messages, get ringtones, games, graphics, and cool tools, plus keep on top of news, sports, weather, travel, entertainment, and more."
From the ToS
"Messaging, Downloads & MEdia Net: Text /Instant Messaging and MEdia Net are automatically included at no monthly charge. Just pay as you use. You may remove these services at any time by contacting customer service. " (From the ToS, near the bottom)
You can get Media Bundle packages for Media Net access if you use it frequently and want to save money.

If you want to use any data-based service on a Blackberry device (wouldn't make sense to not...), you need a Blackberry plan. If you want to tether via the Blackberry, you need the Blackberry tethering plan.

If you want to access any data-based service via a Smartphone, you need a Smartphone Connect plan. Note the capital 'S' in Smartphone. That's a MS trademark/copyright, so the Smartphone Connect plan should only apply to MS Windows Mobile Smartphone Edition devices (if you add a Palm-based Treo to your cart on the Website, your options are the Data Connect Plans, not the 'Smartphone' plans, though I don't know why the 'Smartphone' plans aren't available for the Blackjack - maybe becasue you can get it w/o a voice plan?).
From the TOS:
"SMARTPHONE CONNECT: Not available on PDAs/Pocket PCs, RIM® devices and LaptopConnect cards. May only be used with eligible Cingular-certified Smartphones (Motorola MPX 220, Cingular 2125, Audiovox SMT 5600 or such other Smartphones as Cingular may certify for use with these plans). Eligible voice plan required."

If you want to access any data-based service via any PDA other than a Smartphone, you need the Data Connect Plan. If you want to tether, you need to sign up for the Unlimited Data Connect plan to be within the ToS.

If you have a PC Card modem and want your laptop to connect to data, you need a Laptop Connect plan. This is the only reason to have a Laptop connect plan.

Now, I'm not saying this is what any of you have, or what you were told by a CSR, or whether or not you can get the data services working with some other combination, but if it ever comes down to a dispute w/ Cingular, these are the current offerings and the ToS that they will refer to (and probably hold you to). These are current (I'm assuming, since they came from the website), but your ToS may be different if you signed up in the past. I would check any piece of paper that you signed when obtaining your phone/device, but the ToS also state that the ToS can change, and therefore you're agreeing to always abide by the current ToS.

Whew... it took some digging, but it looks like all the data plan options are spelled out by Cingular in one place or another.

Posted by: maevro

When I purchased my Blackjack I had the e62 and 8125 as my previous phones, both with
the MediaMax 200. The woman at the Cingular store told me that to get the rebate, I would have to upgrade my plan to the $40 so I did. A week later I went online and switched it back to the MediaMax 1000. When I got my bill, they pro-rated my bill and charged me $18 for the upgrade, so I called up Cingular and spoke to a rep. She told me that there was no reason for me to ever of had the $40 plan for the Blackjack and she has been told to let BJ users have the Media Max plans. She even credited me the pro-rate difference and the $18 upgrade fee.

Remember, the call was monitored for quality assurance, so I don't think she was doing anything that would get her fired. I have had no problems with connection, service, email, etc. since I have had the phone the day it came out.

Posted by: blessd24

Quote:

Originally Posted by maevro

When I purchased my Blackjack I had the e62 and 8125 as my previous phones, both with
the MediaMax 200. The woman at the Cingular store told me that to get the rebate, I would have to upgrade my plan to the $40 so I did. A week later I went online and switched it back to the MediaMax 1000. When I got my bill, they pro-rated my bill and charged me $18 for the upgrade, so I called up Cingular and spoke to a rep. She told me that there was no reason for me to ever of had the $40 plan for the Blackjack and she has been told to let BJ users have the Media Max plans. She even credited me the pro-rate difference and the $18 upgrade fee.

Remember, the call was monitored for quality assurance, so I don't think she was doing anything that would get her fired. I have had no problems with connection, service, email, etc. since I have had the phone the day it came out.

The CSR's are one of the main culprites of this mess. They don't seem to know the rules on this at all. I have been screwed by them many a time.

Posted by: blessd24

Oh and the title of this thread means to me that he was doing something wrong. It is in fact "Have I been Busted"

Posted by: blessd24

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeslevine

And youre right, I am more upset at Cingular than you guys. They need to get their crap together and start monitoring these accounts better. I'm starting to think the Revenue Assurance group is non existant.

Posted by: lmychajluk

How do you sign up for MediaNet?

Again, from the ToS:
"Messaging, Downloads & MEdia Net: Text /Instant Messaging and MEdia Net are automatically included at no monthly charge. Just pay as you use."

It sounds to me that you have to specifically opt OUT of Media Net if you don't want it?

Posted by: jetfxr

Quote:

Originally Posted by blessd24

I hope so. I'm tired of people cheating the system. Its freaking stealing, why does no one else see that?

See sig.

is that really your sig?

Posted by: blessd24

Quote:

Originally Posted by jetfxr

is that really your sig?

Yeah, I'm constantly fighting this battle hear. I thought that would be best way to get the word out.

Posted by: jetfxr

Who are you fighting for?

Posted by: Omega2008

There is no need to fight for anything. Read the TOS everything is explained pretty clearly. Except for what plan for what device, again I will pay for what I use. I don't use 100's of mbs of data on my 8525 so I will stick with my grandfathered MediaWorks package. If I ever need to start tethering or use more data I will get a Data Connect Plan. I do believe in paying for what you use, yes you can get away with not doing so but karma is a ***** and she does bite.

Posted by: jetfxr

Who is Karma?

Posted by: ajpprc

I have a GF media works plan with unlimited data, 1500 sms and 200 mms as well. I've used this plan with several different phones, including pda's, regular cell phones and smartphones. I don't feel like I am stealing for a very simple reason, every time I purchase a new phone I lay it out like this "I don't want to change my data plan", if Cingular wanted to force me to change their data plan they could require it and lose my business, but because I've been such a valuable customer they allow me to continue using it. I don't feel bad about it at all, Cingular's made a ton of money off of me and I don't feel the need to pay ridiculous data prices just because there's some promotional materials that say that's the way it's "supposed" to be.

There's this idiotic notion in American society that consumers aren't allowed to negotiate for better terms except in certain specific circumstances (ie, buying a car) and this is just stupid. If I think I an get a better deal I'll ask for it and if the business gives it to me there's nothing wrong with that.

Posted by: maevro

If Cingular was ethical they would keep WiFi on their branded phones. Since they spent all of this money on their networks, they hate the fact that people could get data for free.

I understand where some of you are coming from but if I don't use tons of data, I don't see anything wrong with having a MediaMax plan on my BJ, especially since the Cingular rep signed me up for it - even if most of the reps don't know what they are doing.

Posted by: iJITSU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob34

Do you actually think you're being clever? You are aware that the one of the fundamental requirements for morality and ethics (unless you're a personal relativist...

I'm tempted to comment on the quality of your critical thinking skills, but in the spirit of the season I'll pass and just note that I'm not interested in looking for hypocrites. They usually present themselves with no effort on my part. And your "Nice try, thanks for playing" response is much more illuminating than any banter that came from me.

Posted by: blessd24

Quote:

Who are you fighting for?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega2008

There is no need to fight for anything. Read the TOS everything is explained pretty clearly. Except for what plan for what device, again I will pay for what I use. I don't use 100's of mbs of data on my 8525 so I will stick with my grandfathered MediaWorks package. If I ever need to start tethering or use more data I will get a Data Connect Plan. I do believe in paying for what you use, yes you can get away with not doing so but karma is a ***** and she does bite.

Explain to me why exactly it matters exactly how much data you use on your PDA. In principal I get what you are saying. But these aren't limited "unlimited" plans. That doesnt really make sense does it? If we are gonna do it like that then Cingular should just bring out a 20 MB plan and a 100 MB plan. But they arent, they are: unlimited Media net for basic phones, PDA connect for PDAs. Like I said, I get your logic in principal but I don't believe thats the way its set up now.

Posted by: blessd24

Quote:

Originally Posted by maevro

If Cingular was ethical they would keep WiFi on their branded phones. Since they spent all of this money on their networks, they hate the fact that people could get data for free.

I understand where some of you are coming from but if I don't use tons of data, I don't see anything wrong with having a MediaMax plan on my BJ, especially since the Cingular rep signed me up for it - even if most of the reps don't know what they are doing.

How is that not ethical? They are pushing out the device so they can put whatever they want on it, if you want then go buy the unbranded version. (not to say I didnt wish we had wifi on more phones, thats why I carry the 8125)

Posted by: importluva

Quote:

Originally Posted by maevro

wait wait wait, the inclusion of wifi makes a cellular company ethical?

Posted by: maevro

Quote:

Originally Posted by importluva

wait wait wait, the inclusion of wifi makes a cellular company ethical?

Not at all. I make that comment because for one second you will never be able to convince me that Cingular has my best interest as a satisfied customer, just as a monetary pawn. Because of that, I don't think using plans like MM200/1000 on PDA's is unethical.

They offer it to me as a choice on the website. If they wanted to prevent someone from going onto Cingular.com and changing their own plan, they would.
Since they do not, I will continue to go about my business. Anyway, they don't switch your plan right away, they email you conformation that the switch has been approved.

Posted by: importluva

Quote:

Originally Posted by maevro

well that's just a can of worms I'm not going to touch. Everyone has their own code of ethics that they abide by. Do as you will, the only time I'll care is if Cingular raises its prices on data because people are abusing the network. But I would assume service would be terminated to those top-tier abusers first.

BTW, implementing a computer system that can recognize the device you use by the network and doing an analysis of how much data each user uses would be too cost-prohibitive.

Posted by: jsclifton

First let me say that the title of the post does imply that I am breaking the rules. It doesn’t say that I agree with the rules. My personnel opinion is given the speeds of the devices and networks and the providers insistence on charging more for data on one device over another is ludicrous. The only rational explanation for this pricing structure is luring the unsuspecting in to overage charges.

I do want the providers to make money. The constant investment in new technologies and networks have both made things easier and better in my personnel life and helped keep me employed in the IT field helping implement those technologies.

I agree with the others that have posted that the data plans should be based on thresholds regardless of the device would be best. I pay for access to the internet to my home based on connection speed. I have never heard my ISP say hey hold up there you have a whole LAN behind that router. No they just charge me for the pipe. If the cellular providers charge by the MB that is fine but why would they possibly care if I tethered a notebook as long as I stayed within my plan. Really if I am paying for a Media Works plan with 20MB how possibly would it matter if I tethered, streamed or downloaded tunes to reach my 20MB limit. If they implemented a plan like this and really charge for the top tier of users the plans would seem more equitable. I’m sure they could run a simple statistical analysis against the last calendar years worth of bills and come up with the appropriate data thresholds and pricing.

This thread generated a heated response not because the plan TOS are unclear but because they are irrational as a lot of us must see it.

Posted by: Omega2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by blessd24

My company I guess you could say. I get frustrated by CSR reps flipping my PDA Connect to a Media Max plan behind my back, so then I lose money on that. That ticks me off. I play by the rules and then some ignorant rep or shady rep or shady customer flips it on me. I usually fight for that feature back though, normally I will have the person who flipped it call the customer back and tell them that there was a mistake and they cant keep that feature. Sorry guys, I'm just tired of losing money.

Explain to me why exactly it matters exactly how much data you use on your PDA. In principal I get what you are saying. But these aren't limited "unlimited" plans. That doesnt really make sense does it? If we are gonna do it like that then Cingular should just bring out a 20 MB plan and a 100 MB plan. But they arent, they are: unlimited Media net for basic phones, PDA connect for PDAs. Like I said, I get your logic in principal but I don't believe thats the way its set up now.

Well I know thats not the way its set up. But thats how I play it. I believe customers should have whatever plan they want on there phone, if they break the TOS then they have to deal with it.

Posted by: djDiZZyD

blessd24 i just need you to explain one thing to me:

Smartphone Connect is only for smartphones. NOT for PDA's. (EX. 3125, 2125, Audiovox 5600)

PDA Connect is for PDA's. (650, 680, 750, 8125, 8525, Blackjack, E62)

since you obviously work for cingular I can see your point in regards to PDA Connect plans for PDA devices, but how can it even be considered remotely fair that a Blackjack (which we all know is a smartphone) to fall under this category

Posted by: RF9

They do have limited 'buckets' data plans. But the price is so disproportional to the unlimited plans it basically makes you a chump to not get one. You'll pay upwards of $500 with moderate use for what you can have for $40 or $20.
At the end of the day, all cingular cares is that they get all customers on an unlimited data plan. They don't care which one or how you use it, just that you're subscribing to extra features. I'm not being cute, I'm serious.
They want everyone on "a" unlimited plan so the average is that more people are paying for what they don't use vs. using more than they pay for. That's all that matters to them.

If they cared that much theyld make devices/plans clear and get0their story straight with CS and store reps, and right now it's clear as mud.

I rather prefer the Chaos the way it is. It's olne reason I stay with Cingular.

Who here has read Comcast's TOS?
Now how many of you with CC cable modem are violating the TOS? Most likely ALL of you.

The TOS0is fine print so they can cover their butt's and do as they please, it's not an adequate communications tool.

TO: Blessed, I admire you efforts to make everyone pay their fare share. I always tell people to pay for what they use (if you want to tether a lot get the tething plan, etc.) After all I don't want gross violators to ruin it for me. But why are you fighting the battle for a corp. that doesn't care or appreciate your efforts. My advice, stick to educating and don't get envolved in any battle.

I still have Media works unlimited for the Treo 650 they legitimately bundled with it on the web site. My karma is quite healthy.

Posted by: Omega2008

I can tell you its not fair its bull but Cingular calls it a PDA because of its static keyboard. Clearly they don't understand what the difference between PPC OS and Smartphone OS.

Posted by: torifile

Whatever. I don't tether. I do the same things I would do with a "basic" non-PDA phone with my 8525. So that's what I'm going to pay for. I don't need isp.cingular as an APN because I don't need a static IP. If I needed it and I figured out some way to get it with my MediaNet plan, that'd be unethical. The way I'm using MediaNet is not.

I don't need those additional services and I'm not using them so why should I pay for them?

Posted by: jetfxr

Quote:

Originally Posted by blessd24

My company I guess you could say............................. Sorry guys, I'm just tired of losing money.

Which one is it? The company or you?

Thats what I was thought. Your in the wrong Place too be busting people's bawls about "your company's" lack of concern over "your commisions". You got a personal problem.
_______________

Posted by: blessd24

Quote:

Originally Posted by jetfxr

Both, is that a problem? They are linked together. And youre right, its gotten to me pretty good because I lose money over it because I am playing by the rules. Its a tad frustrating.

Posted by: blessd24

Quote:

Originally Posted by djDiZZyD

blessd24 i just need you to explain one thing to me:

Smartphone Connect is only for smartphones. NOT for PDA's. (EX. 3125, 2125, Audiovox 5600)

PDA Connect is for PDA's. (650, 680, 750, 8125, 8525, Blackjack, E62)

since you obviously work for cingular I can see your point in regards to PDA Connect plans for PDA devices, but how can it even be considered remotely fair that a Blackjack (which we all know is a smartphone) to fall under this category

Valid question. I posed that to my data trainer and he didnt have much of an answer for me, thus I don't either. I don't agree with the decision but thats apparently how it is, so I guess I have to go with that.

You have a legitimate gripe there, alot of you do. Cingular needs to get their crap together is really what it boils down to.

My way of going about this wasnt really the right way to do it. But it sure sparked some interesting conversation didnt it? I think we all have learned things havent we? What else are these boards for. But I'm sorry to come off as abrasive to anyone here, you have to understand my frustration though...I'm basically having money stolen from my pockets because Cingular refuses to care about what data plan is actually being used on which phone. The more I talk and think about it the more I'm convinced its none of the customers fault but the company. They dont care if I'm getting commission on it, they are just worried about getting your 20 or 40 bucks a month. Thats they way it seems anyway. Luckily this isnt a career for me, more of a job until I get through school. Someday I'll run my own business where I can make my own rules and not have to worry about what the higher upers are doing. (hopefully anyway) I hope you all realize I'm not really mad at you, just frustrated with the company.

/rant for the 4th time.

Posted by: importluva

I'm really in the camp of pay for the amount that you use, and I'm positive that all of my posts support this statement.

IMO, Cingular has it in their TOS not to tether on anything BESIDES the actual LaptopConnect because its a (valid) assumption that if you tether, you WILL use more data. Now, as most of us know, that is not the case. The people here that say that when they tether (maybe a few times a month, max) and they're still below 100mb/month are absolutely valid in using MEdiaMax. Now, obviously if you're burning 3-5GB/month on MEdiamax, then that's going to raise a red flag somewhere (or else Cing needs to update its computer system). I'm less than halfway through the month and I've already gone through ~300mb of data thus far on my 8525, and I'm paying for PDAconnect because that's FAIR to not only Cing, but everyone else here. Imagine if high-bandwidth users were mostly on MEdiaMax - Cing would surely notice and make some changes.

Posted by: edward40handz

Quote:

Originally Posted by blessd24

I hope so. I'm tired of people cheating the system. Its freaking stealing, why does no one else see that?

See sig.

Man I have been telling people this forever!!!!! thank you for saying that

People..... If you cant afford the plan to go with the $300 phone you just bought then you are what they call HOOD RICH... Like having a Porsche and not affording the Synthetic oil or high test gas...

Pay what the company asks or change to T mobile.. im sure your experience will be much better......

Posted by: torifile

Quote:

Originally Posted by importluva

Now, obviously if you're burning 3-5GB/month on MEdiamax, then that's going to raise a red flag somewhere (or else Cing needs to update its computer system). I'm less than halfway through the month and I've already gone through ~300mb of data thus far on my 8525, and I'm paying for PDAconnect because that's FAIR to not only Cing, but everyone else here. Imagine if high-bandwidth users were mostly on MEdiaMax - Cing would surely notice and make some changes.

That's bogus because both MediaNet and PDA Connect will use the same access point most of the time. Both users will be on wap.cingular most of the time. It has nothing to do with bandwidth usage. When a plan is unlimited, it needs to be unrestricted by bandwidth, plain and simple. Cingular cannot and should not use bandwidth as the determining factor if they're going to market something as unlimited. That's fraud.

It should come down to services. They need to make the plans more compelling so that people get on the plan that will maximize their experience. I don't give 2 whits about Cingular's or the rep's bottom line. Life's tough. Deal with it.

Posted by: torifile

Quote:

Originally Posted by edward40handz

Nice contribution to the discussion.

Let's talk about this a bit more, though. Alright, say I decide that I'm going to use PDA Connect for my 8525. I don't tether. I just use it online. That's $39.99/month. Fine. Now let's say, on the weekends, I put my SIM in my w600. Not a PDA. I do this every weekend, so 2/7 of the time, my PDA Connect plan is being used on a non-PDA phone. Is that stealing?

Of course it's not. But there have been 2 claims in this thread by the "it's stealing" camp:

1) You're using the wrong plan and that's ethically wrong. My example makes that assertion seem as absurd as it is.
2) You're using more bandwidth than you "should" be. That's crap because the MM is unlimited, too. What am I stealing if they tell me they're going give me all that I want? It's like having a buffet and not letting people go back for more.

Neither of these arguments hold any water. What am I taking using an unlimited MM plan that Cingular doesn't "freely" offer by calling the plan unlimited? NOTHING.

It's not stealing.

Posted by: rosullivan04

If Cingular wants you to use PDA Connect, then why are the phones setup by Cingular, by default, to use Media Net? The Blackjack and 8525 are configured to use Media Net. Also, Cingular Video on the Blackjack actually recommends Media Net Unlimited when you start the program, not PDA Connect or Smartphone Connect.... sounds VERY fishy to me, Cingular fanboys saying one thing, Cingular actually telling me another. The onus is on Cingular to enforce their multimedia plans - if they don't want me using Media Net on my PDAs, then it is their responsibility to ensure it does not work on my device - simple software changes that would cost little to no money could do this. Heck, they could just change the phones to ispda or isp, that would get their message across as to what plan they want you to use. This is the last post I bother putting in here - I'm not going to change my plan based on what someone at the lowest rung of the ladder recommends - you and others like you are far from someone that matters in the company, much less someone that would compel me to needlessly spend more money just to not steal in your eyes. For whatever reason, you're under the mistaken impression that bandwidth is so expensive that $20/Mo doesn't cover "fair" usage on a PDA. I have news for you.... I'm probably not even cracking half my monthly fee on actual cost - rest assured that Cingular is making a tidy profit off of me. To steal the saying above... why pay for "test" gas if your car doesn't need it? Your just more the tool for doing so.

Posted by: blessd24

Quote:

Originally Posted by rosullivan04

If Cingular wants you to use PDA Connect, then why are the phones setup by Cingular, by default, to use Media Net? The Blackjack and 8525 are configured to use Media Net. Also, Cingular Video on the Blackjack actually recommends Media Net Unlimited when you start the program, not PDA Connect or Smartphone Connect.... sounds VERY fishy to me, Cingular fanboys saying one thing, Cingular actually telling me another. The onus is on Cingular to enforce their multimedia plans - if they don't want me using Media Net on my PDAs, then it is their responsibility to ensure it does not work on my device - simple software changes that would cost little to no money could do this. Heck, they could just change the phones to ispda or isp, that would get their message across as to what plan they want you to use. This is the last post I bother putting in here - I'm not going to change my plan based on what someone at the lowest rung of the ladder recommends - you and others like you are far from someone that matters in the company, much less someone that would compel me to needlessly spend more money just to not steal in your eyes. For whatever reason, you're under the mistaken impression that bandwidth is so expensive that $20/Mo doesn't cover "fair" usage on a PDA. I have news for you.... I'm probably not even cracking half my monthly fee on actual cost - rest assured that Cingular is making a tidy profit off of me. To steal the saying above... why pay for "test" gas if your car doesn't need it? Your just more the tool for doing so.

Thanks for the personal attack. Classy for sure. I don't care what you think or anyone else on here. I am just arguing my point on a discussion board. Thats what people do here.

The bolded statement is ignorant in a way. You know how these big companies work, there always front line people needed, no less important than anyone else in the company. We are the people that deal head to head with customers everyday, how is that not important? Don't get me wrong, I don't think its a high level job at all. As I have stated, this isnt a career for me.

Valid point on the media net thing. I'm going to go with downloading stuff from Cingular as the answer. If the phone is not set up for Media Net then you cant download ringtones and graphics and things like that. Another way for Cingular to make money. Thats just my guess on it.

(Kind of answered this backwards but you get the point.)

Posted by: blessd24

Quote:

Originally Posted by torifile

Nope, the plan is backwards compatible. Now if you came in and are constantly using that plan then I would certainly help you out and point you to the correct plan. How is it stealing if you choose to put your SIM in a lesser phone? Is Cingular somehow cheating you without any of their doing?

Posted by: rosullivan04

That was far from a personal attack... that was aimed at some of the Cingular associates in this thread that have big heads. As for the front line people being no less important, I would have to respectfully disagree with you, as I'm sure the executives in your company would do as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blessd24

Posted by: jeslevine

The problem is NOT with the customer it is with Cingular. I have an 8525, and they let me sign up for Media Net 200. Is that my fault?

I didn't hide that I had a PDA.

Cingular knows the phones I have, and the service they are giving me. When I sign into my account it is all there

Within 2 years, maybe 1, the prices on cellular internet will be what DLS charges, 15 to 30 bucks a month.

They enforce a rule that people with PDAs should be paying a minimum of 40 bucks a month, in my view they will lose revenue for that service. Most places have WIFI, and except for rare instances, a laptop suffices for internet usage.

At best, internet on a cell phone is a slight convenience, and at worst it is a novelty for gadget freaks

I would venture to say it is NOT the consumer who is stealing, but Cingular who is screwed up by having so many data plans with fuzzy rules to keep track

Posted by: edward40handz

OK... I also work for Cingular and I run a couple counties in Upstate NY on the Indirect side... Now I understand that the people using these phones that require special plans are just not wanting to spend the money... Well here is the bottom line.

With a smart phone (EI. 3125, 2125, mpx) you must use smartphone connect plans.

PDA devices use Unlimited PDA connect.

Black Berry use Black Berry connect plans (personal or business)

TETHERING CAN ONLY BE DONE WITH 2 UNITS (BlackBerry and 3125)
YOU MUST HAVE A BLACKBERRY TETHER PLAN OR UNLIMITED SMARTPHONE CONNECT>

Unlimited media net is used with any regular phone without SYMBIAN or WINDOWS MOBILE> (EI. Razr, Slvr, w600, etc.)

I understand all the "Valid" arguments, but in actuality they are meaningless. We are the professionals and work for Cingular. You are the consumer and when we sell the devices we activate them with the CORRECT PLAN that needs to be associated. Its SIMPLE.... PDA devices do use more bandwidth due to full web page loading. YEs smartphones do as well but that is why there are specific plans for them too. As far as the BlackJack classification.. yes it sucks but you know what .. QWERTY keyboard = not smartphone sorry!

Cingular is #1 in Voice and Data and we are that for reasons... Many actually. So I really have nothing else to say except that all the people that buy phones and try to use incorrect plans will eventually be moved to the correct plan or will not be able to access the internet at all. TOO BAD>

Let me leave you with this....... If having a baby in the Hospital and the DR. is about to cut you open ... do they allow you to use an HMO that doesnt cover the surgery.. I dont think so.... WEll.. Its pointless to argue with people about this.. so .. do as you wish but dont act like we dont know that people use improper plans all the time. So later..

Posted by: jeslevine

edward40handz, I have an 8525, and Cingular let me signup for medianet 200 unlimited, THAT ISN'T my fault. In fact most of the pages are wap.

If Cingular is stupid enough to suddenly tell customers that the plan we gave you is wrong, and we will now move you to a more expensive plan, they WILL piss off a lot of customers.

I highly doubt that they will do that

As far as your analogy about the doctor, it is not the same thing. First of all, in this country they cannot refuse to perform a necessary procedure on you because you do NOT have insurance.

A phone company is under no such obligation. They are only obligated to their shareholders, and to remain competitive in the market

Posted by: jsclifton

"People..... If you cant afford the plan to go with the $300 phone you just bought then you are what they call HOOD RICH... Like having a Porsche and not affording the Synthetic oil or high test gas..."

Sounds like someone who doesn't pay for his plan.

It is not about being able to afford a plan it is about its value to you. My point is this I only use around 50MB a month. There is not enough value in a PDA connect plan at $40 a month there is at $20. Is it really equitable that someone who uses 100MB pays the same as someone using 1GB?

Posted by: lmychajluk

"There is not enough value in a PDA connect plan at $40 a month there is at $20."

There is obviously more value in anything that gives you X for $20 than for $40, which is why there needs to be one set of data plans regardless of what your device is, what you use it for, and what you tether to. 5 MB is 5 MB, 20 MB is 20 MB, and unlimited is unlimited, and it costs any carrier the same ammount transfer 1 MB of data over thier network regardless of what it is because it's just a collection of 1's and 0's. Then, you just select the plan that corresponds to how much data you use. Once selected, you can move that SIM around to any phone or device and it doesn't matter.

The problem today is that the carriers don't see that data is data, and that they can't distinguish that data based on device, thereby allowing people to use plans not intended for thier particular device to use thier networks at lower than intended costs.

Posted by: Omega2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by edward40handz

OK... I also work for Cingular and I run a couple counties in Upstate NY on the Indirect side... Now I understand that the people using these phones that require special plans are just not wanting to spend the money... Well here is the bottom line.

With a smart phone (EI. 3125, 2125, mpx) you must use smartphone connect plans.

PDA devices use Unlimited PDA connect.

Black Berry use Black Berry connect plans (personal or business)

TETHERING CAN ONLY BE DONE WITH 2 UNITS (BlackBerry and 3125)
YOU MUST HAVE A BLACKBERRY TETHER PLAN OR UNLIMITED SMARTPHONE CONNECT>

Unlimited media net is used with any regular phone without SYMBIAN or WINDOWS MOBILE> (EI. Razr, Slvr, w600, etc.)

I understand all the "Valid" arguments, but in actuality they are meaningless. We are the professionals and work for Cingular. You are the consumer and when we sell the devices we activate them with the CORRECT PLAN that needs to be associated. Its SIMPLE.... PDA devices do use more bandwidth due to full web page loading. YEs smartphones do as well but that is why there are specific plans for them too. As far as the BlackJack classification.. yes it sucks but you know what .. QWERTY keyboard = not smartphone sorry!

Cingular is #1 in Voice and Data and we are that for reasons... Many actually. So I really have nothing else to say except that all the people that buy phones and try to use incorrect plans will eventually be moved to the correct plan or will not be able to access the internet at all. TOO BAD>

Let me leave you with this....... If having a baby in the Hospital and the DR. is about to cut you open ... do they allow you to use an HMO that doesnt cover the surgery.. I dont think so.... WEll.. Its pointless to argue with people about this.. so .. do as you wish but dont act like we dont know that people use improper plans all the time. So later..

Aparently as someone who works for cingular you don't know anything about your own services. Read the TOS for data packages, hell I will even give you a link to it where it says nothing about what plan has to to go to what phone but it clearly says what device can't have said plan and it clearly states that only DATA CONNECT UNLIMITED and BLACKBERRY CONNECT TETHERED can be used to tether to a computer, not PDA connect, not Smartphone connect unless its stated somewhere in that TOS and I missed it. If its not in there then it doesn't fly.

Link to TOS

Posted by: eagle1

These threads seem to appear every couple of days and will continue to appear until Cingular takes action and enforces its TOS. I for one, would like for Cingular to enforce its TOS. Its not like they can't tell what phone is attached to its network. If you have read this thread or the Cingular TOS, then you know what plans are supposed to be used for specific phones. If you use the wrong plan and think it is ok, well that pretty much says that you believe anything else you do that benefits you while knowing it is wrong is also ok. Good lesson to teach your kids... Okay...now go ahead and flame..

Posted by: dan1431

I spoke with a employee in Steve Sitton's(Regional President Southeast) office and I now better understand what has happened with DATA packages at Cingular

Originally their thinking was that regular end-users(most people) would subscribe to a MEdia Net plan and use a little DATA(around 20-40MBs) a month and mostly send TXT and MMS messages. These people would buy regular non-PDA style phones and be happy with WAP pages and the like. Then there was a second set of people they called them small business users who would benefit from a Smartphone that would allow them to check their POP/IMAP email, manage their contacts and do some simple surfing which they were going to market the Smartphone DATA package too (around 50-80MBs a month worth of DATA). Finally there were the large business users who would use a PDA style device which would SYNC with their office network, allow them to access their VPN and utilize software which their company deployed for them. This type of user would have PUSH email needs, heavy use of DATA either from his/her VPN or possible a program which they utilized over Cingular's network I was given the example of a sales person who had on-line access to their companies inventory from their PDA device. This type of user would utilize a PDA Connect plan which provides the high end DATA required as well as access to a public IP address something that wap.cingular does not provide.

However, their vision did not pan out as they would have liked and thus have decided instead to peg a service with a device rather than a service with the type of user. Maybe not as far as the original idea but that is what is effect now and until such time as they re-organize their DATA plans will be in effect. I was told that one reason they have not locked down MEdia Net plans on PDA style devices is because some people would be really cheated if they had to buy a PDA Connect plan when all they really needed was MEdia Net plan. I was also informed that rare, Cingular will contract a user who is abusing his/her MEdia Net plan and offer a larger plan or be asked to discontinue heavy use of DATA or they will be responsible for extra charges.

Another issues is devices not sold by Cingular, essentially Cingular being a GSM carrier does not restrict devices on its network as long as they have been approved by the GSM regulatory agency. Thus, a Cingular subscriber could obtain an HTC TyTN and use it with his/her MEdia Net plan and unless he/she abused his/her plan Cingular would not be the wiser. It was explained to me that while the device transmits it IMEI to Cingular, unless it is in Cingular's database, they do not know what kind of device it is except for maybe the manufacturer. Thus, they have no way to enforce their DATA policies(through sales) with unbranded devices not sold through Cingular.

Dan

Dan

Posted by: Omega2008

Well that does make alot of sense, and I totally agree with whom ever you talked to. It wouldn't be fair to restrict smartphone users and PDA users to Smartphone and PDA connect plans when all they want and need is Media Net. Thats why in the TOS it doesn't say anywhere that these plans HAVE to go to the corresponding devices. I do agree that if you burn thru alot of data then you should get the plan that matches your needs, so it seems Cingulars marketing has the same rational thinking as most of us....don't pentalize the people like a Smartphone or a PDA and don't burn thru data. Thanks for that post Dan, it was infomative.

Posted by: jeslevine

Well my 8525 is in Cingular's database, and they know I subscribe to a MediaNet 200 unlimited for 20 bucks a month. If they don't like it then they can increase my rate to 40 bucks a month, and I won't use that service from them, it is as simple as that

I don't think they will

Posted by: lmychajluk

They will if it's costing them more to provide you with unlimited data than you are paying.

From Dan's post:
"...they have not locked down MEdia Net plans on PDA style devices is because some people would be really cheated if they had to buy a PDA Connect plan when all they really needed was MEdia Net plan"

Which is exactly why they just need to start charging by the kb/MB and be done with all the stupid plan per device or plan per "user type" bs. If everyone was told they were going to be paying $1/MB (ex.), then noone can argue that they're being cheated, whether they are d/l'ing sales data from thier company's database, ringtones, or sending txt messages. You use 50MB of data, you pay $50. You use 1MB, you pay $1. Then, they can offer plans along the lines of 50MB for $40/mo as incentives to select the right plan.

Posted by: jeslevine

Quote:

Originally Posted by lmychajluk

They will if it's costing them more to provide you with unlimited data than you are paying.

From Dan's post:
"...they have not locked down MEdia Net plans on PDA style devices is because some people would be really cheated if they had to buy a PDA Connect plan when all they really needed was MEdia Net plan"

Which is exactly why they just need to start charging by the kb/MB and be done with all the stupid plan per device or plan per "user type" bs. If everyone was told they were going to be paying $1/MB (ex.), then noone can argue that they're being cheated, whether they are d/l'ing sales data from thier company's database, ringtones, or sending txt messages. You use 50MB of data, you pay $50. You use 1MB, you pay $1. Then, they can offer plans along the lines of 50MB for $40/mo as incentives to select the right plan.

but I believe they are making money. In fact just look at T, and its balance sheet which confirms what I am saying

I also don't agree that the pay per use will be successful. Eventually they will go toward the DSL model. 12 to 30 dollars a month

Posted by: jsclifton

Thanks for the post Dan. Hopefully one day they do move to a pay for access model. Until then I will continue to use my 50MB a month on Media Net knowing that while not to the letter of law that it seems to be a resonable use for a resonable price.

Posted by: dan1431

My sense is that they are evaluating at this moment many different options.....none were mentioned to me however but from the conversation it sounded like they were evaluating their options.

Also, they had mentioned that they read Howards Forum and other BB and do take suggestions that are placed here and incorporate that into their thinking.

Dan

Posted by: importluva

Quote:

Originally Posted by lmychajluk

yea, paying a dollar per MB sounds like its really fair and I'm sure consumers would love to have unlimited data taken away!

Ugh. As it stands right now, looks like Cingular really IS looking out for its customers. They do need to change the plans a bit, but I think what they offer is fair. $40 for unlimited data really isn't too much IMO for those users that use it daily. And I do use it daily and make great use of it, and it always pays for itself, whether it be through convenience, saving me money on a purchase (being able to check prices on amazon or ebay on the road), or if I'm using it for work purposes.

Oh, BTW, I've noticed a significant discrepancy between wap.cingular and isp.cingular. isp.cingular rarely ever times out whereas wap.cingular always times out which means I have to restart my data connection for it to get going again. So I do see extra value in it.

Posted by: importluva

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsclifton

Thanks for the post Dan. Hopefully one day they do move to a pay for access model. Until then I will continue to use my 50MB a month on Media Net knowing that while not to the letter of law that it seems to be a resonable use for a resonable price.

I definitely do NOT want cingular to move to a per kb/mb model. However, if they have plans like they do for minutes (ie a 50mb plan, 200mb plan, 1GB plan) then that would be fair and users would definitely pay for what they use.

However, I love paying $40/month for my unlimited access. I know how much it'll be and I can use as much of it as I want, although I never breach 1GB.

Posted by: Omega2008

Odd...I use wap.cingular and don't have those problems, maybe its area specific.

Posted by: importluva

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega2008

Odd...I use wap.cingular and don't have those problems, maybe its area specific.

it probably is, but I've noticed these problems in other areas when I'm traveling for work. I would often compare them and isp.cingular would always be more consistent and reliable.

Posted by: dan1431

I have a laptop connect plan which I use in my laptop and in my HTC TyTN and the $60 that I pay(well the company that I work for pays) for the service is well worth it from my standpoint.

There are many times that it has saved me money on purchases and more than a few times it has saved my butt in the airport when there is irregular operations and I need to have some ideas for re-routing before I deal with an airline employee.

Dan

Posted by: importluva