vB Easy Archive - Samsung Blackjack

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Samsung Blackjack
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Posted by: mch

Summary: This phone is could have been a great phone/PDA combo. It comes close but misses the mark in so many areas. I suspect it works relatively well if you live in a pure Microsoft centric-world, but my world is multiplatform (Windows, Mac OS X, Linux, Solaris, etc.). I'm completely leaving out issues around Cingular data plans intentionally other than to say if you buy this phone, Cingular is going to expect you to pay a fair bit for data, and you might be able to get around that. All my testing was done with the $60/month DTCNUNL plan that allows more or less everything including tethering under the ToS.

I'll start with some Pros and Cons...

Pros:
- Good RF performance. It also handles audio handoffs between cells remarkable well, even in GSM mode.
- excellent speaker volume and good sound quality (incoming and outgoing)
- Quad Band GSM
- UMTS/HSDPA is fast and has low latency (at least as far as wireless protocols go)
- Good integration with MS Exchange for Email/calendar
- nice form factor - even with extended battery
- Simultaneous voice and data in UMTS/HSDPA mode
- Camera. As far as cameras on phones go, it isn't bad. Certainly not up to the standards of the Nokia N73 or SE K800i.
- It is relatively easy to force GSM mode in case one is in an area where UMTS coverage is marginal and also easy to get access to a field test mode.
- Speed dial shortcuts can also take you to frequently used applications quickly.
- It has a scroll wheel and a nice easy to use device for getting arrow keys. Nice touch.
- MicroSD slot for memory expansion.

Cons
- Non-standard charging, headset, etc. connector. Everything is proprietary here.
- Internal antenna is at bottom of phone.
- No Bluetooth DUN profile. It has Bluetooth PAN, but that isn't implemented everywhere yet.
- If used in USB Modem mode via cable, the phone doesn't charge. As UMTS takes a fair bit of battery, this limits its usefulness for tethering unless you are tethering to a Windows box. If tethering to a Windows box you can use Activesync and Internet Sharing, and the phone will charge while tethering via USB.
- The keyboard can't keep up with fast typing. If you type fast, it will simply miss characters
- The built-in task manager doesn't handle task switching with some third party applications. This can be fixed by using Resco task manager instead.
- No built in copy/paste functionality. Vito copy/paste helps with this though
- Need for occasional reboots because all of a sudden it won't connect to the internet or behaves strangely in some other way. One time the keyboard simply stopped working altogether.
- Cingular has crippled Java on this phone (like the Nokia E62). No Google maps.
- Pocket IE identifies itself to many websites as Pocket IE - which gives different versions of the website. Can apparently be fixed with a registry hack.
- It consumes a lot of battery power. Get the extended battery. Turning off UMTS/HSDPA helps with this, but the phone form factor is actually a bit nicer anyway with the extended battery.
- Inflexibile and frustrating IMAP/POP3 client. The IMAP client can't delete messages from servers. It's all very basic with few options. Unfortunately Profimail is no longer available for Smartphones. Hopefully that is temporary, because Profimail is a great IMAP/POP client (although I wish Profimail supported IMAP idle)
- I have yet to find an IM client that really works well for AIM/Yahoo. The Cingular provided OZ messenger seems pretty unreliable (and uses SMS) - messages tend to get lost. IM+ is almost working on EDGE, but not on UMTS. The Agile beta seems to have problems using AIM related to code page support when the person on the other end is using certain AIM clients.
- the best ssh client I have been able to find is zaTelnet pro. It works, but it is slow.
- The smartphone OS doesn't provide very convenient ways of entering characters not on the keyboard. The Sym key brings up a grid. By comparison, with Symbian the phone remembers your most recently used characters, and the Blackberry provides a two key combination for pretty much every standard character (e.g. SYM+W gives you '<')
- customizing the start menu is difficult. Again, third party apps can help with this (e.g. Resco), but it is sure a far cry from Symbian and the Blackberry where one can simply move applications around easily.
- Getting the SIM out of the SIM slot is somewhat difficult. It isn't well designed for people who frequently change phones.
- No WiFi. This isn't a big issue if you have 3G/UMTS. It would sure be nice though to also have WiFi for places where there isn't 3G.

Commentary:

This gets more to my personal experience and uses, and is much less objective than the above.

This is my first Windows Mobile phone. I expected to have some trouble adjusting. I remember well the first time I picked up a Blackberry and started using it - that adjustment was easy, I was happily doing all sorts of things with it almost immediately. The WM5 adjustment, however, didn't go so well.

Things I take for granted in Symbian and the Blackberry are missing in WM5 Smartphone. The most glaring ommision is copy/paste. I simply don't understand how such basic functionality could have been left out of the operating system.

The experience has really forced me to clarify what I really use my phone for. It turns out my primary uses are (probably not in order):
1. Voice
2. Text messaging. I also end up using my phone as a substitute for a pager (Cingular Enterprise Paging - http://www.cingular.com/midtolarge/entpaging )
3. AIM and to some smaller extend Yahoo
4. POP/IMAP mail
5. Some web browsing
6. Getting directions, etc.
7. ssh

The Blackjack does a nice job with voice. No complaints there. The speaker volume is very loud. The RF performance is good. The antenna placement at the bottom of the phone makes it a bit harder to hold, but I can get used to it. In terms of overall audio stability, the Blackjack in GSM mode beats my Nokia E70-2 and N73. I can manually switch to GSM mode if that is desirable. With the extended battery and charging nightly, battery life is no longer an issue. This is one PDA/phone combo that actually does well as a phone. This isn't a given - every Treo model I have tried I've tried over the years was horrible as a phone.

The typing speed issue is somewhat annoying for email, AIM, text messaging. Type too fast, and the Blackjack simply drops some characters. It's not something that I noticed when I first got the phone because I was typing more slowly while getting used to the keyboard. However, as I get used to the keyboard, it becomes more and more of an issue.

Pocket Outlook is a marginally useful IMAP client. It does support multiple folders, but you can't really manage your mail from it. Can't even delete messages. It is very basic. I had it set to poll for email every 30 minutes - that typically worked, but not quite always.

Pocket IE is a tolerable mobile web browser. My points of reference are Opera Mobile and the Nokia Web Browser included in S60v3. Overall they all provide a web experience that works with many pages on the internet. Pocket IE has the disadvantage that it is recognized by many websites (based on the browser string, I expect) as a mobile web browser, so I get more limited versions of the website in question.

The limitations of Java applications are annoying. Google Maps isn't usable here. This isn't unique to the Blackjack. Cingular had the same customizations made on the Nokia E62. Of course, I can use websites to get directions. Not quite as convenient, but it works.

In terms of ssh clients, nothing seems to work very well. zaTelnet was the best of the lot of several I tried, but it is quite slow. Even with UMTS it seems slower than putty on Symbian using EDGE for data connectivity. The difficulty of getting special characters like '<' and '>' on the keyboard without a lot of keystrokes, makes this a poor platform for logging into a UNIX box and doing something useful. Both Symbian and the Blackberry handle this better.

I also had some general reliability issues. Unlike Symbian and the Blackberry, the Blackjack simply needs to be rebooted every once in a while to function correctly. A couple of times it needed a reboot to be able to connect to the internet. Once because the keyboard became completely non-responsive. It is not like it needs daily reboots, but I have needed to reboot it a few times because of operating system issues.

Conclusion:

For my applications, it seems that I'm better off with Symbian or the Blackberry in most respects. I hate to give up the UMTS speed, but WM5 smartphone just doesn't seem to be for me. Perhaps I would have been happier with a PPC. If I didn't live in a multiplatform world, some of the issues I had would go away, but other things like the keyboad dropping characters when typing fast just seem to be a basic defect of the Blackjack itself.

In the end, for me, the Blackjack doesn't make the cut for everyday use. My Cingular SIM goes back into my Nokia E70-2 or maybe the E61. I can tether with these while charging them from multiple platforms (Bluetooth DUN or USB), and if I want UMTS for tethering I can use an aircard 860. I picked the aircard 860 up on ebay for less than $100 shipped.

At least with the E70/E61 I have access to high speed internet where I have WiFi. That isn't as nice as UMTS, but it seems to be the best compromise for now.

Posted by: Ian Brantford

Thanks very much for the review. This has much more detail than I usually see. I had not seen mention anywhere else of the missing Bluetooth DUN or speed issues. I had the BlackJack on my short list for my next phone, but I'll probably have to scratch it off unless fixes are made available. At least there is a straightforward solution to the silly omission of copy/paste.

I'll probably get a Nokia E62 when Fido offers it, to sate me until a suitable HSDPA handset becomes available. If Fido doesn't come through soon, I'll shop for an unlocked E62, E61 or a used 9300b. These models don't do everything, but they do what one would expect from them.

Posted by: #29

Excellent review...Thanks op

Posted by: mch

Addendum.

It seems that Profimail is now available for purchase for WM5 Smartphone. It seems to work on the Blackjack. It wasn't available for a while, I wonder why. That effectively solves the IMAP/POP client problems.

IM+ 1.32 is also reasonably functional.

The other issues with the Blackjack remain, but it now appears that there are reasonable third-party solutions for POP3/IMAP4 email and IM.

Posted by: ipodlover77

would u perfer the k800/k790 or the Blackjack?

Posted by: mch

Quote:

Originally Posted by ipodlover77

would u perfer the k800/k790 or the Blackjack?

They are completely different phones.

The k800 has a very good camera (for a phone) with a very good flash. That's really its distinguishing factor. Other than that it is a perfectly good phone and performs well as a phone. It supports Bluetooth DUN and the Blackjack doesn't. It can be charged while tethering to a non-Windows computer. The K790a adds EDGE and GSM 850, and doesn't have GSM 900 and Euro-UMTS, a better fit for the American market.

The Blackjack is more extensible in terms of third party software. Has a querty keybaord. The camera isn't very good, but it isn't the worst camera in a phone on the market by far. Although the Blackjack looks like it is targeted as a messaging centric device, it really does better as a multimedia device. Great for streaming things from the internet and not bad for light web browsing. Even with the right software the "dropping characters while typing fast" issue really puts it out of the running as a very good device for messaging. Of course, the other big draw of the Blackjack is 3G. There just aren't a lot of choices in WCDMA phones for Cingular, and the UMTS support on the K800 won't work in the U.S.

Of course, the Blackjack also doesn't play well in a multiplatform world. If you only use Windows and have your email hosted on Exchange this isn't an issue. The K800 and K790a at least support Bluetooth DUN, and have include good IMAP email client.

I can't answer with some definitive one is better than the other. Really I end up prefering different phones in different situations. My relationship with the Blackjack is a love/hate thing. The Blackjack has some incredible strenghts and some incredible weaknesses.

If you're looking at the K800/K790a, you might also look at the Nokia N73.

Posted by: ipodlover77

so does the blackjack really drop characterS? I mean i average about 35 WPM on the sidekick. and i needed and phone thats compact and small that can keep up with my speed. Is that flaw really bad or can it be ignored? Personally, the camera doesnt realy matter to me as long it has a camera that takes decent photos.

Posted by: mch

Hmm... I have never measured my WPM, but I suspect at that rate it will drop characters. It certainly drops characters for me.

You can do a search, lots of people have complained about that defect on the Blackjack. Some examples:
http://www.greghughes.net/rant/24Ho...ressions.asp x
http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=1092312
http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2006/...sung-blackjack/

If you want a phone with a good qwerty keyboard that doesn't drop characters, good reception on North American GSM networks, and a reasonable, but not exceptional, camera there is always the Nokia E70-2.

Posted by: ipodlover77

hahah another quick question. This may be farrrrrr off topic but i need to know this answer. Im currently carrying two phones with me (a former i930 and a tmobile sidekick 3). The weight on my waist is getting to much for me hah and i was wondering. If i get a prepaid cingular sim card, will i be able to get on the internet? I mean is there like a dollar a day plan on the cingular prepaid network also?

Posted by: hvolterra

Hi MSH,

Sounds like you really know your BlackJack. I just got one and have a problem I can't seem to resolve. When I go into Contacts and enter a name, I get all kind of responses that have nothing to do with what I typed, except that phonetically they are similar. For example, I enter Errol, and get all the Carol's in my contact list (which is very large). IT seems like this should be a simple issue of the mode of search, but I can't figure out how to fix it. Do you know? Help would be very much appreciated!

Thanks,

Hava

Posted by: davistld01

Wow...really glad I read this review on the Blackjack. I have been anguishing over whether or not to jump into the smartphone pool, what phone to choose, and whether I can justify the extra cost...

I am a smartphone virgin, and am pretty intimidated by the learning curve I'm facing anyway!!!

I was looking at the Treo 680, but was told that it was a device with lots of inherant problems...and had lousy earpiece volume/call-quality as a phone. The Treo 750 is too pricey for me...at least for now. I tried the Blackberry Pearl, and returned it after an overnight session...horrible call quality, dropped calls, & I hate the trackball thingy. I had pretty much narrowed it down to the Blackjack or the Nokia E62. But...after this review, I am kinda bummed out and confused again as to what to do.

I guess I want a great mobile phone first and formost...with easy-to-learn and user-friendly PDA capabilities. I don't care how whiz-bang it is as a PDA, if it sucks as phone...I'm out!

How does the Nokia E62 stack up vs. the Blackjack in the areas I have said are important to me? Am I getting the wrong information about the Treo 680? Would it really be a good device for me? I can get a smoking deal on it from Cingular Business Services...but if it is a problem phone, the deal is a moot point.

I really need, and appreciate the help!!

Posted by: mch

Well, I have used the Nokia E61, which is pretty similar to the E62.

Like the Blackjack, the E61 works quite well as a phone. RF performance and speaker volume are good. The E61 supports Bluetooth DUN. The built-in POP3/IMAP4 Email client is better than the one on the Blackjack. It plays somewhat better in a multiplatform environment. Still, something like Profimail might be an improvement on the email client side. The internal antenna is at the top of the phone on the E61, and it provides a more convenient way of entering special characters not on the keyboard (same grid mechanism, but it remembers your most recently used characters and makes them easier to get at). The E61 does not have the horrible typing speed problem that the Blackjack has. For me, that is the greatest problem with the Blackjack. In terms of web browsers on the E61, you can use the built-in Nokia browser which works quite well, and Opera mobile (download for a fee) which also works quite well. Having two good choices is nice. If a web page doesn't work in one, it will often work in the other. On the whole I think the web browsing experience is better on the Nokia.

Of course, you don't get UMTS on Cingular with the E61/E62. The functionality is completely gone out of the E62, and the E61 does not support UMTS on Cingular's frequencies.

As to the Treo 680 I can't really comment other than to say I'm not surprised. I've owned a couple of Treos (180 and 700p), and although they were good PDAs, neither of them really worked well as a phone.

I've also used a Blackberry 8700g (on t-mobile). It actually worked pretty well. Good, but not spectacular RF performance. The Blackjack and E61 are clearly somewhat better as phones, but I didn't find the difference that great.

Note that the Cingular E62 has the same Java crippling issue as the Blackjack. The E61 doesn't. From reports, some people have worked around this E62 problem by flashing it with Rogers firmware.

Also the E61/E62 don't have a camera. Don't know if this matters to you. For some people this might be an advantage, for some a disadvantage.

Now for a purely subjective opinion. I do think at Symbian on the E61 is easier to use then Windows Mobile Smartphone on the Blackjack. The UI on both isn't up to the Blackberry standard for ease of use, but Symbian S60v3 seems to have a somewhat better thought out UI. S60v3 also seems to win out in overall stability over WM5 Smartphone (at least on the Blackjack).

The biggest downside of the E61 seems to be that the device doesn't really have enough internal memory for what people expect of it. In particular, this can cause problems with web browsing. In practice this hasn't been a show stopper for me in the way the keyboard typing speed issue is on the Blackjack.

One other weirdly annoying problem has cropped up on my Blackjack. When I speed dial someone, much of the time I now get a warning box saying that speed dial was broken and has been repaired. Then speed dial works just fine. It's a minor annoyance, but it does go along with many other minor annoyances. I suppose I could do a hard reset and reinstall everything... Anyone seen this before?

Posted by: mch

Quote:

Originally Posted by hvolterra

Hi MSH,

Sounds like you really know your BlackJack. I just got one and have a problem I can't seem to resolve. When I go into Contacts and enter a name, I get all kind of responses that have nothing to do with what I typed, except that phonetically they are similar. For example, I enter Errol, and get all the Carol's in my contact list (which is very large). IT seems like this should be a simple issue of the mode of search, but I can't figure out how to fix it. Do you know? Help would be very much appreciated!

Thanks,

Hava

Hmm... I haven't had that problem, or at least haven't noticed it. However, my contact list isn't that large. You might ask in the Microsoft Smartphone forum here on HF.

Posted by: tailg8r

Quote:

Originally Posted by davistld01

Wow...really glad I read this review on the Blackjack. I have been anguishing over whether or not to jump into the smartphone pool, what phone to choose, and whether I can justify the extra cost...

I am a smartphone virgin, and am pretty intimidated by the learning curve I'm facing anyway!!!

I am also a smartphone virgin but and after much research and pondering what to do I found an easy solution............. no phone is perfect. I don't care what smartphone you are looking there is always a feature missing or doesn't work as well as it should compared to a different phone. My wife and I just had our contact come up with Cingular. I had narrowed my choices down to either going with Cingular (ATT) for the next two years or try my luck with Tmobile. I recently drove from Milwaukee to Breckenridge, CO with my Cingular service and didn't loose reception once along the way. I was told there is a black hole in western NE and eastern CO where Sprint and Verizon goes dead for 45 miles ish... Never lost it once. Tmobile has spotty coverage and has a better network around our cabins and my home town. It was a tough choice I had been pondering for the last couple months, I love this type of stuff.

I was at one time set with signing a two year contract with tmobile and hooking myself up with the Tmobile Dash and my wife with the pink razr from Miami Ink........ more debate and research led me to the blackjack. no it doesn't have wifi and yes you have to deal with this *&$#'in proprietary cord but all in all this thing is sexy as hell. so yes we ended up going with a family plan through cingular, a bj for me and a pink razr for my wife. I haven't signed up for any sort of data plan or txting plan yet and am not 100% sure if I will but I am looking forward to my 2gb micro sd card coming and using this as a $400 cheaper option than the iphone (not to mention not having 3g, dealing with a smudgy screen all day, etc). My bj came in the mail last night and i am loving every minute of it. yes the qwerty pad is small but i haven't had a mistype yet on it. i kinda wish it had wifi because of having it at work and at home but i hear wifi drains the life of the battery faster than hillary clinton drains the life out of a party at a democratic convention in iowa.

E62 - eh, bigger screen, way bigger to hold in your hand but no 3g, no sexy looks and no camera.

all in all............. here's to Samsung and Cingular for making my first time with a smartphone as painless as possible

damn this phone is hot!

Posted by: mch

Quote:

Originally Posted by tailg8r

You are absolutely right. A good choice depends on what features are more important to you. I didn't exactly say the E61 was better, did I?

For me, my biggest issue with the Blackjack is the dropped characters while typing fast issue. That's such a big issue in my messaging-centric life that my SIM actually spends most of its time in my E70-2.

However, then I end up living without 3G and with the memory issues of the E70. It's all a compromise. So I play with the Blackjack occasionally, but the E70 is what actually gets things done for me.

Posted by: ipodlover77

after buying the blackjack, i must say im pretty surprised. Samsung was able to fit in my good qualities into a phone as small as the blackjack. I thought the drop of characters would bother me, but so far it hasent, i havent even been able to type fast enough to drop letter lol. The keyboard is a bit on the cramped side though haha..

Posted by: diblaz

MCH,
Great review on the Blackjack. This was perfect timing for me to read this considering I am switching over to Cingular within the next month and Blackjack is/was on my short list to choose from. The fast typing is definitely an issue for me so now I have some re-thinking to do. One question, if you know this or not: Do you know of any SMS issues with Blackjack or more/less with the Blackberry 8700c for Cingular? I ask this because I currently have a Blackberry 7520 (Nextel), and it drives me insane if I get a text message from another user that is outside of Sprint/Nextel. I get the message but no phone number is supplied. However, if I get one from a Sprint/Nextel customer, I get the number. I know they consider these "SMS messages" but I didn't know if you knew if they have the same issues with the Blackjack and Blackbery 8700c. And with those two phones, if you wanted to text someone that does not have a smartphone, do you have to create an email message (i.e. number@cingularme.com)? Text and data features are very important to my decision considering I need them everyday for the work that I do. The Direct Connect just isn't cutting it anymore.

Forgive me if you haven't noticed this issue or heard of these issues with any other carriers, but I figured I'd ask since you seem to have a pretty good grasps of different smartphones.

Thanks!

Posted by: ipodlover77

yea. Usually, the number shows when u receive a text message, even if the person a not a customer of cingular.

Posted by: mch

Quote:

Originally Posted by diblaz

MCH,
Great review on the Blackjack. This was perfect timing for me to read this considering I am switching over to Cingular within the next month and Blackjack is/was on my short list to choose from. The fast typing is definitely an issue for me so now I have some re-thinking to do. One question, if you know this or not: Do you know of any SMS issues with Blackjack or more/less with the Blackberry 8700c for Cingular? I ask this because I currently have a Blackberry 7520 (Nextel), and it drives me insane if I get a text message from another user that is outside of Sprint/Nextel. I get the message but no phone number is supplied. However, if I get one from a Sprint/Nextel customer, I get the number. I know they consider these "SMS messages" but I didn't know if you knew if they have the same issues with the Blackjack and Blackbery 8700c. And with those two phones, if you wanted to text someone that does not have a smartphone, do you have to create an email message (i.e. number@cingularme.com)? Text and data features are very important to my decision considering I need them everyday for the work that I do. The Direct Connect just isn't cutting it anymore.

Forgive me if you haven't noticed this issue or heard of these issues with any other carriers, but I figured I'd ask since you seem to have a pretty good grasps of different smartphones.

Thanks!

I have no problems sending/receiving text messages from other carriers with Cingular (or for that matter with T-mobile or VZW). Sounds like a strange Sprint/Nextel iDEN issue. I haven't used Nextel in such a long time. Last time I used Nextel was way before there was such a thing as SMS between carriers in the U.S.

With Cingular and the Blackjack you can text people by number directly. You don't need to know whether the recipient has a smartphone or not. I haven't actually used a BB 8700c on Cingular, but I have used an 8700g on T-mobile. On the 8700g SMS works as expected. They're basically the same phone.

It sounds like the iDEN network is really going downhill from everything I've been hearing. It used to be among the best

The Blackjack is quite an adjustment from the Blackberry. If you want the 3G functionality or you care about multimedia features it might well be worth going to the Blackjack. If messaging is one of your primary functions, I think that the Blackberry is really a better choice.

Posted by: Ian Brantford

mch, I was just looking again at the issue of the missing Bluetooth DUN profile. According to this Samsung support forum...

http://erms.samsungusa.com/customer...558&PROD_ID=751

... it should have that profile. Maybe it's in a firmware update?

Posted by: mch

As far as I can tell from reading various bits of information, it seems that all Smartphones with Windows Mobile 5 AKU 3 have Bluetooth PAN instead of Bluetooth DUN. It is a Microsoft issue rather than a Samsung specific issue.

e.g. http://modernnomads.info/wiki/index...age=OS+Versions

Posted by: JohnWowk

I'm eagerly awaiting the Canadian release of this phone, but it seems to be a bit of a ways off... I'm considering getting this phone elsewhere. I've checked out Ebay and several other websites such as CNet, but has anyone stumbled accross any amazing deals for this phone anywhere? Keep in mind as I'm a Rogers customer I would be buying this phone at cost, and not getting any discounts based on contract-sign-up or carrier consideration.

Posted by: ipodlover77

for phones, ebay isnt the best bet. So many people count on ebay for a good price on phones that ebays auctions are actually on the same level as retail prices. For example, i was looking for a blackjack, and howard forums were all sold out, when i checked ebay, the prices were up in the 350's and 380's. My advice is, because the blackjacks are such a hot product right now, ur best bet is to just scope around howard forums for a good deal to pop up.

Posted by: TRD_Celica

nice writeup! although i like the blackjack better than the Q, i have no choice but to go with a Q

Posted by: ipodlover77

wow, ur right mch. After i was able to type a bit faster on the blackjack, i noticed the constant drop of characters. I hope theres a firmware upgrade for us in the future that corrects this bug.

Posted by: mch

Quote:

Originally Posted by ipodlover77

wow, ur right mch. After i was able to type a bit faster on the blackjack, i noticed the constant drop of characters. I hope theres a firmware upgrade for us in the future that corrects this bug.

Overclocking may fix this according to http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=1087902
I haven't tried it.

I am trying a Cingular 8525 (Cingular branded HTC Tytn) right now. It does not have the typing speed problem. It also has a faster processor than the Blackjack. It has some of the same issues as the Blackjack though, and some different issues. Again, it doesn't play well with non-Microsoft proprietary stuff. I guess that's a feature of WM5. I'll say more in a separate review once I have a more complete picture.

Posted by: ipodlover77

would u say the 8525 is a overall better phone then the blackjack? im contemplating on whether or not i should sell the one i have right now and buy it again when the new batch comes out with Windows Mobile 6

Posted by: mch

Quote:

Originally Posted by ipodlover77

would u say the 8525 is a overall better phone then the blackjack? im contemplating on whether or not i should sell the one i have right now and buy it again when the new batch comes out with Windows Mobile 6

That's a hard call. What drove me to try it was frustration over the keyboard missing characters on the Blackjack. It doesn't have that problem. I'll throw out some other points of comparison. The 8525 is actually running a somewhat older version of Windows Mobile 5 (AKU 2 vs AKU 3). The 8525 is a lot larger and it has a touchscreen (PPC vs Smartphone). The handset speaker volume on the 8525 is not as good as the Blackjack - it doesn't functional as well as a phone in a noisy environment. The 8525 doesn't have a built-in task manager. However, the 8525 seems to do a better job of holding on to and using a marginal UMTS signal than the Blackjack. That 8525 apparently also has Bluetooth DUN instead of PAN, although I haven't tried it yet. The 8525 also seems to need a third-party program for the basic "profiles" functionality that is included with the Blackjack (PhoneAlarm works for that). The 8525 has a standard mini-USB port for charging and isn't dependent on Activesync for charging while attached to a computer.

The 8525 certainly addresses some of my frustrations with the Blackjack. It seems better given my applications, but I've only been using it for a few days. I suspect I'll be using the 8525 for a while.

To state my bias openly though, if I could get something like my Nokia E70 or the upcoming E90 with HSDPA 850/1900, I would dump WM5 and go back to Symbian 9 without a moment's hesitation. I don't really need the tight integration with Windows/Exchange/Office that WM5 provides, and I have found the whole WM5 experience pretty frustrating. In a perfect world I'd have a Symbian 9 phone with HSDPA 850/1900 and quad-band GSM and a QWERTY keyboard.

Posted by: ipodlover77

hey mch, i need your help for a second. I bought the Blackjack 3 weeks ago, and used it for a week. I loved it. The voice quality was FREAKING amazing and the texting was good, the camera was clear, and it was slim. But last thursday, i bought my back up phone K790. And i must say, thats a nice phone. Even though it was supposed to be my backup, my blackjack has become my backup for the following reason. I dont have internet in my plan, so i cant take advantage of the 3G. My question is, do you think its worth it to sell my blackjack and buy a W850? its a hard decision =/

Posted by: davistld01

Quote:

Originally Posted by ipodlover77

hey mch, i need your help for a second. I bought the Blackjack 3 weeks ago, and used it for a week. I loved it. The voice quality was FREAKING amazing and the texting was good, the camera was clear, and it was slim. But last thursday, i bought my back up phone K790. And i must say, thats a nice phone. Even though it was supposed to be my backup, my blackjack has become my backup for the following reason. I dont have internet in my plan, so i cant take advantage of the 3G. My question is, do you think its worth it to sell my blackjack and buy a W850? its a hard decision =/

If you are using neither the internet/data or 3G capability of the Blackjack...then why do you have the thing? Seriously, if you only want a cool mobile phone...there are better choices (the k790a being a good one). The Blackjack works good as a mobile phone, and I am also more impressed with it in that capacity than the Treo 680 I'm also playing with...but purely as a mobile phone, it's a PITA to use and fumble around with the tiny keypad keys.

I think the k790a is a better phone than the w850 personally. The w850 is a slider and all, but is way overpriced and overhyped for the actual performance level it provides.

If you are just going to have a cool phone...and a cool backup phone, why not buy a SE w810i as a backup? I think it's the best phone in the SE lineup...but that's just my 2-cents.

Posted by: ipodlover77

lol i also need a phone that satisfys my cell phone urge. I already had the w810i a couple of month ago. It was a good phone no doubt, but i sold it later on for a BB Pearl. Yea, the k790a is actually my primary phone right now, but i like to switch it up sometimes. And yea, without the internet plan, the blackjack is kinda pointless to me. Well not totally pointless, because it does have a qwerty keyboard. (Texting is VERY important to me).

Posted by: davistld01

Quote:

Originally Posted by ipodlover77

lol i also need a phone that satisfys my cell phone urge. I already had the w810i a couple of month ago. It was a good phone no doubt, but i sold it later on for a BB Pearl. Yea, the k790a is actually my primary phone right now, but i like to switch it up sometimes. And yea, without the internet plan, the blackjack is kinda pointless to me. Well not totally pointless, because it does have a qwerty keyboard. (Texting is VERY important to me).

You sold your w810i for a Blackberry Pearl???

Actually I got bit by the stupid bug too...and traded mine a Pearl, for one night. It didn't take me long to realize what a POS the Pearl was, and I rushed back for another w810i.

Posted by: ipodlover77

hahah it wasnt that bad. I bought the pearl before it went really mainstream. The suretype was pretty good though. Really easy to pick up. But yea, the w810 blows it out the water by a long shot.

Posted by: skel123

Day two on a new BJ. I (like many here it seems) have had the gauntlet of PDA's + Cell's (Palm, Visort) + Start tac - through the combined monstrosities until last combo the Treo 650 (For two years). On the Treo the voice quality was hideous and the internet/data was slow. The Blackjack has fast data and great voice quality - and to make it better it fits in the pocket. So (again on day two) I am really happy about the change. The only things that are a PIA

- Inability to easily config the home screen
- Lack of reminders on SMS

The only apps I have installed are Agile for IM.

Posted by: mch

Quote:

Originally Posted by skel123

Day two on a new BJ. I (like many here it seems) have had the gauntlet of PDA's + Cell's (Palm, Visort) + Start tac - through the combined monstrosities until last combo the Treo 650 (For two years). On the Treo the voice quality was hideous and the internet/data was slow. The Blackjack has fast data and great voice quality - and to make it better it fits in the pocket. So (again on day two) I am really happy about the change. The only things that are a PIA

- Inability to easily config the home screen
- Lack of reminders on SMS

The only apps I have installed are Agile for IM.

You can get reminders on SMS by installing DontForget. It's freeware.
http://magazin.softimage.cz/?page_id=83
SMS reminders are basically a requirement for me as I use my cell phone as a pager for work via Cingular Enterprise Paging.

There are a lot of addons to customize the home screen. I like this one:
http://www.sbsh.net/products/facade/

Posted by: skel123

Quote:

Originally Posted by mch

Thanks for the reminder app - it looks good. I also installed facade. I liked it alot but our company uses goodlink and I couldn't work out how to make the home screen reflect the goodlink totals/calender and not the default Blackjack apps. Probably have to edit the xml.

So here is what I have installed now

* Agile (right now it won't connect to AIM for some unknown reason) worked last night - same settings - no error message. I wish there was a better (data - not SMS IM program)
* Google maps
* Facade (though not in use)
* Don't Forget

Question - i have ahuge SD card on order. Whats the best way to make use of it. I can see putting the pictures directory on it - but can I move or install apps on it?

Posted by: giraffe42

I've had the bj for a few weeks now and I was able to install Google maps fine on it. Also I just took it completely apart. If anyone wants detailed pictures of the process let me know. The phone is ok, i am really ticked off with the antenna on the bottom (especially since the extended battery is the only viable option for me) but it looks like there is a hookup to an AUX antenna. It does have a skipping problem when typing but that's not too bad or I don't type fast enough. I really like the 3G and the ability to have Google Maps + sending email on the go. When I forget to grab my mp3 player into my car I just tune in one of the steams over @ DI.FM and blast the speaker, it is loud enough to be heard very well over highway noise. Another issue I encountered is more likely a Microsoft issue rather than Samsung but I am not able to download large files, it will just time out the connection. Oh well doesn't bother me that much.

Posted by: ebubman

wow. good review & interesting followup comments. we're @ upgrade time & i'm on the fence as to what to get. have been thinking about a blackjack & the bb pearl---but am equally enticed by some 3g phones ie. n75 & razor v3xxx----and---also by the nokia 6126. i'm finding i do more web based stuff on a phone. i keep in mind that, bottom line, it's our primary voice line & that the rf must be stellar. over the years we've had great rf performance with nokia phones. currently have an lgcu400 that, in dual mode is junk. still on the fence...bub

Posted by: mch

Thanks,

The review is a bit dated.
e.g.
- google maps works fine now because google has a special WM version now, so you don't run into the java restrictions
- Agile Messenger works fine now, as does IM+

Posted by: ib12lk4

Also I would update this review with the fact that many of the issues have been solved by the upcoming WM6.

First. The dropped letters while typing is fixed.

Second: The battery life is better now due to better use of its data connection (only on when it needs it).

There are probably other things, but I can't think of anymore right now, and I've only had my phone for about 2 weeks, and I've been running WM6 the whole time.

Posted by: mch

hmm... Maybe I'll give it a try. I'm somewhat unmotivated though given that my SIM is in a Nokia E90 right now and the E90 is a great phone.