vB Easy Archive - What Apple did wrong...

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What Apple did wrong...
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Posted by: wamderer

Honestly, I hoped that the Iphone would change the way that we buy phones. I was hoping that phones would be offered as "phones." You know, you buy one, and Cellular Service was sold just as that, SERVICE. Apple could have had the balls to say "Look, we sell hardware.. That's it. It's unlocked, and you can use it on any GSM carrier.. If your carrier isn't GSM, too bad.."

But instead, they decided to suck up to Cingular. Cingular has pretty much come out and said that Apple did exactly what what they wanted them to do in regards to the iPhone.

Apple was just about the only company that could have had the momentum, and the market to fundamentally change the way that Americans buy phones. They could have turned "subsided" phones into a thing of the past, and made cell phone companies back into what they are: SERVICE PROVIDERS!

As it is, Apple knuckled under to Cingular's pressure, and now the iPhone is nothing more than just another phone, no matter how good it is, and how much it does, it still sold the same old way.

Thanks, Apple. Thanks for nothing...

Posted by: wamderer

Oh, and if anybody thinks this is Apple bashing, It's not. I've met Woz in person, and I've got his signature on the front of an Apple //gs. (Yeah, non-Woz limited edition, but it's actually REALLY signed by Woz.)

Right now, I've got Powerbook lust. I'd love to have a 15 inch MacBook Pro, and, with the move over to Intel, 15 powerbook prices are way down. I've considered getting one more than once.

What I'm griping about is the fact that, for the first time, a non-subsided phone could have been sold, and the changes that were a result of that happening could have been amazing..

But it didn't happen.

Posted by: wildrock

Quote:

Originally Posted by wamderer

But it didn't happen.

Yet. It still may.

Posted by: toneloco28

Apples fundamental mantra is about user experience. They want COMPLETE control of the software that goes onto the phone. I can't tell you how many times I've bought a carrier subsidized phone, only for it to have some mission critical bug, because they wanted to install their own proprietary firmware on the thing. Then it takes them 6 months to be fixed, because their not software experts.

So basically, Apple had to concede a little bit to allow them an entrance into the mobile market. Secondly, since they wanted complete control over the software,design, etc..they needed a carrier to cooperate with them. There's features on the phone that needed network side support that just wouldn't be possible without some carrier intervention. Sigman said it himself at the iPhone introduction: "We let Apple be Apple." But, Cingular was not about to just let Apple walk all over them. They probably demanded carrier exclusivity, some type of profit sharing, etc.

Americas cell phone market is just so entrenched in the idea of subsidized cell phones that for the masses, I think it would be hard to start selling everything unlocked, which would mean higher prices. Families would start complaining about "why can't I get the Family line with 3 free razrs"?! I completely agree with you however; that I would fully embrace the idea of non-subsidized phones if it meant no carrier intervention and NO contracts.

Posted by: FL1134

Quote:

Originally Posted by wamderer

...

As it is, Apple knuckled under to Cingular's pressure, and now the iPhone is nothing more than just another phone, no matter how good it is, and how much it does, it still sold the same old way.
...

Agreed, although people will argue that they had to concede to the provider get "visual voicemail" to work right and that a future generation may be sold unbranded. While it is speculation about the voicemail thing, but unbranded phones can be configured to work just as well as branded phones with respect to data settings. Saying that future revisions might be sold unbranded is pure speculation also. They had the retail space in corporate owned stores and the mass to demand big-box retailers to stock the shelves but didn't. I personally think that carriers would have folded over in a second, if millions demanded that the iphone be activated on their network.

Posted by: FL1134

Quote:

Originally Posted by toneloco28

Apples fundamental mantra is about user experience. They want COMPLETE control of the software that goes onto the phone. I can't tell you how many times I've bought a carrier subsidized phone, only for it to have some mission critical bug, because they wanted to install their own proprietary firmware on the thing. Then it takes them 6 months to be fixed, because their not software experts.
...

Apple is just as proprietary as your current phone, but will most likely have a better UI and faster support response. However, that does not make it any less proprietary, regardless of what other people say.

How would you like complete control over your phone with thousands of developers working around the clock to release free applications and firmware for your phone? The neo1973 (first generation, with others slated to be released) answers that question. You will be able to completely change themes, ringtones, applications, etc. No more waiting for firmware or software updates to be released. You can even change them yourself.

Unix->BSD-> Darwin/OSX
Unix->Linux

http://www.openmoko.com/press/index.html

Quote:

...
Americas cell phone market is just so entrenched in the idea of subsidized cell phones that for the masses, I think it would be hard to start selling everything unlocked, which would mean higher prices. Families would start complaining about "why can't I get the Family line with 3 free razrs"?! I completely agree with you however; that I would fully embrace the idea of non-subsidized phones if it meant no carrier intervention and NO contracts.

Agreed. VZW is the best at this with their New Every 2. ($100 off 2 year phone price if you renew for another 2yrs). People plan their phone purchases around their ne2. They are hooked and never stop to even think about paying full retail/noncontract prices.

Posted by: jvanbrecht

Quote:

Originally Posted by wamderer

What I'm griping about is the fact that, for the first time, a non-subsided phone could have been sold, and the changes that were a result of that happening could have been amazing..

But it didn't happen.

Actually, it sorta, kinda, in a wierd way is... Compusa had 5 mockups (they were waiting on stock, this was in Tallahasse FL) of Nokia and Moto phones, all unlocked, sold without any service at a retail price. I was shocked, I almost fell over when I saw this since it is not very common. Nokia USA's web site is also starting to sell select phones service free at non subsidized full retail pricing. I was on vacation in FL (it was more visitng the in laws to be) when I saw this, I have not checked in compusa's in the DC Metro area, but I could not find them on the compusa website.

Its a small start, but a start non the less, and your right, apple should have sold the phone without any limits attached, but they did, and no sense crying about it now, besides I won't buy one, I will buy a cheap chinese knockoff clone of the iphone, why.. because they take the specs of the iphone, and either make it cheaper, or improve upon it and sell it at the same price, probably with windows mobile, or even better, linux (boatload of phones run linux in the asian market).

Posted by: jvanbrecht

I believe the neo1973 has been released under a different name, minus the GPS, and triband.. I think.. or am I thinking of something else... Also when I first saw the name I was thinking neonode.. and good luck with them, its all vapourware till I see some hard proof :P

Posted by: IcemanMN

Apple's iPhone will break the existing CDMA business model for selling phones and service. The current model is the sandbox approach: buy a subsidized phone that only works on our network, get a subsidized data rate, get all your data services (music, ringtones, video, navigation, etc) from us at great expense.

With Apple's iPhone, you get your music and video from iTunes or your own CD collection. All the carrier gets is a 2-year contract, and there are no subsidies. Verizon and Sprint are going to have to either a) change their business model, or b) offer competing phones and services that make people prefer them over the iPhone (yeah, right). Give it a year or two. The revolution has happened. The old regime just doesn't know it's dead yet.

Look at it from the point of view of Verizon's and Sprint's CEO's. Steve Jobs has introduced disruptive technology (again), but you can only have it by playing by his rules. They're going to fold their hand and change their model.

Posted by: briareus

Quote:

Originally Posted by wamderer

They could have turned "subsided" phones into a thing of the past, and made cell phone companies back into what they are: SERVICE PROVIDERS!

Whee! More armchair wireless industry analysis (as if the pros aren't bad enough)...

You have got to be kidding. Do you actually read all the posts complaining about subsidized pricing?? Apple would have slit its own throat with the unsubsidized approach. People (and I mean those used to buying smartphones) are already griping about the iPhone's pricing.

It won't matter. It will sell like hotcakes. Don't underestimate the power of Apple's Kool Aid and the rabidness of its fanboys.

Very few "average Joes" really care about taking devices from carrier to carrier like HoFo'ers who are (once again) a tiny percentage of the market.

Posted by: CowboyNYC

Anyone find the neo1973 for sale? Know its been announced, but has anyone seen the device? Anyone review it? I can't even find a picture of the actual device in hand. What about a HoFo member neo1973 order in mass?

"One of the world's largest computer and consumer electronics manufacturers will ship a completely open, Linux-based, GPS-equipped, quad-band GSM/GPRS phone direct, worldwide, for $350 or less, in Q1, 2007. First International Computing's (FIC's) "Neo1973" or FIC-GTA001"
http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS2986976174.html

How many HoFo memebers? better make sure they roll out at least that many one day one, if not 2 per HoFo member. Here's a GREAT idea for FIC, offer HoFo members first crack at the the neo1973.

Other device manufactures should worry about the iPhone, but get the neo1973 on the market for $350 or less, look out! At that price it would just about kill subsidizing on the upper end devices. A totaly open device, non-branded this device alone could change the industry, but have several manufactures doing the same thing? The service providers would become exactly that service providers. Look forward to the day when the arrogance, and control is stripped from the service providers, the day the fats cats die, and the consumer again becomes the top of the food chain.

Ever since I saw the neo1973 I thought it was something cool, something to get (if its not vapor)
http://www.howardforums.com/showthr...ghlight=neo1973

Quote:

Originally Posted by jvanbrecht

I believe the neo1973 has been released under a different name, minus the GPS, and triband.. I think.. or am I thinking of something else... Also when I first saw the name I was thinking neonode.. and good luck with them, its all vapourware till I see some hard proof :P

Posted by: FL1134

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowboyNYC

Anyone find the neo1973 for sale? Know its been announced, but has anyone seen the device? Anyone review it? I can't even find a picture of the actual device in hand. What about a HoFo member neo1973 order in mass?

...

How many HoFo memebers? better make sure they roll out at least that many one day one, if not 2 per HoFo member. Here's a GREAT idea for FIC, offer HoFo members first crack at the the neo1973.

Other device manufactures should worry about the iPhone, but get the neo1973 on the market for $350 or less, look out! At that price it would just about kill subsidizing on the upper end devices. A totaly open device, non-branded this device alone could change the industry, but have several manufactures doing the same thing? The service providers would become exactly that service providers. Look forward to the day when the arrogance, and control is stripped from the service providers, the day the fats cats die, and the consumer again becomes the top of the food chain.

Ever since I saw the neo1973 I thought it was something cool, something to get (if its not vapor)
http://www.howardforums.com/showthr...ghlight=neo1973

For once, I agree with everything you have said.

http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Hardware
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/smartpho...1973-236841.php
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRvtAAXTIlg

2007-03-11 Phase 1: Official Developer Launch
We will sell the Neo1973 direct from openmoko.com for US$350 plus
shipping. Sales and orders will be worldwide. We are specifically
targeting open source community developers.

2007-09-11 Phase 2: Mass Market Sale
Online sales will continue. We will also be available in a retail
stores and selected carriers around the world. At this point, we
hope your mom and dad will want to buy a Neo1973, too.

The 2nd generation OpenMoko device will also be introduced at this
time. We have something special in the works, but again, you will
help shape this device.

Posted by: toneloco28

Quote:

Originally Posted by FL1134

My larger point was that when the carrier is in charge of the service they dictate what is installed on the phone. They usually incorporate their own specialized firmware that makes the devices slower, and less stable than their unlocked counterparts. I'm more comfortable with an Apple phone, knowing that if there is some critical bug or flaw, the update can just be pushed to me through iTunes rather than waiting on Cingular to get off their rears to release an update. I didn't mean to imply that Apple's exact implementation wold be less proprietary, but just easier to fix .

I'm a fan of unlocked phones and the freedom it offers me, but sometimes I like the ease of having a carrier supported model for issues of warranty, repairs, etc.

Posted by: jvanbrecht

Umm.. I cannot tell if your being sincere or sarcastic...

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowboyNYC

Anyone find the neo1973 for sale? Know its been announced, but has anyone seen the device? Anyone review it? I can't even find a picture of the actual device in hand. What about a HoFo member neo1973 order in mass?

"One of the world's largest computer and consumer electronics manufacturers will ship a completely open, Linux-based, GPS-equipped, quad-band GSM/GPRS phone direct, worldwide, for $350 or less, in Q1, 2007. First International Computing's (FIC's) "Neo1973" or FIC-GTA001"
http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS2986976174.html

How many HoFo memebers? better make sure they roll out at least that many one day one, if not 2 per HoFo member. Here's a GREAT idea for FIC, offer HoFo members first crack at the the neo1973.

Other device manufactures should worry about the iPhone, but get the neo1973 on the market for $350 or less, look out! At that price it would just about kill subsidizing on the upper end devices. A totaly open device, non-branded this device alone could change the industry, but have several manufactures doing the same thing? The service providers would become exactly that service providers. Look forward to the day when the arrogance, and control is stripped from the service providers, the day the fats cats die, and the consumer again becomes the top of the food chain.

Ever since I saw the neo1973 I thought it was something cool, something to get (if its not vapor)
http://www.howardforums.com/showthr...ghlight=neo1973

Posted by: CowboyNYC

The carriers will NOT have say about the iPhone or the software running on the iPhone. This a partnership, this is not the carrier calling the shots about the service and the device.

Quote:

Originally Posted by toneloco28

I'm a fan of unlocked phones and the freedom it offers me, but sometimes I like the ease of having a carrier supported model for issues of warranty, repairs, etc.

Posted by: CowboyNYC

I've posted on the neo1973 a few times, I'm not BS'ing. Find us a place to buy I'll order one....

Quote:

Originally Posted by jvanbrecht

Umm.. I cannot tell if your being sincere or sarcastic...

Posted by: toneloco28

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowboyNYC

The carriers will NOT have say about the iPhone or the software running on the iPhone. This a partnership, this is not the carrier calling the shots about the service and the device.

Which was PRECISELY my point?!

Posted by: CowboyNYC

Apple iPhone: gold standard for smartphones
http://www.digitmag.co.uk/news/index.cfm?newsid=7241

Posted by: wamderer

Quote:

Originally Posted by toneloco28

Americas cell phone market is just so entrenched in the idea of subsidized cell phones that for the masses, I think it would be hard to start selling everything unlocked, which would mean higher prices. Families would start complaining about "why can't I get the Family line with 3 free razrs"?! I completely agree with you however; that I would fully embrace the idea of non-subsidized phones if it meant no carrier intervention and NO contracts.

And lower prices. I think that if I bring my own phone into a service contract, I should get some level of discount for the carrier not paying for my phone for two years.

Cell Phone service is the ONLY service that I can think of that runs like this in America. You don't "buy" a landline with a contract for two years, and you're really just renting-to-own the phones in your house. You don't buy a lamp from the power company with a promise to pay them X number of dollars over the next two years for power service, with an ETF if you decide you don't like the lamp.

It's time to demand MORE from cell phone companies. As it stands, we're putting up with uber-crappy service. Over at www.theconsumerist.com they're doing a "Worst Companies in America" survey. Of the 16, 2 are cable providers, and 2 are cell phone companies.

And that's what I'm annoyed about. Apple had the power to take and say "Look, here's a piece of hardware: It works on these carriers. You buy the phone from us, and use it with whoever you want to, we don't care.." And cell companies would ACTUALLY HAVE TO COMPETE ON THE MERITS OF THE SERVICES THEY OFFER. They would be competing DIRECTLY. And if they gave crappy service, guess what? You could jump ship, 'cause you're not in a stupid contract, and you could go where you wanted to, 'cause they offer better customer service.

The fact that SO many people used the text messaging rate increase to get out of contracts with Verzion, Sprint, and Cingular should indicate that there is a PROBLEM with the way that things are done now, and it needs to change.

What I am saying is that Apple had the power to change it. They are one of the few companies that could have had the momentum and the marketing to change the way that phones and service are sold. And they didn't do it.

And that's what I'm annoyed about.

Posted by: wot_fan

Quote:

Originally Posted by wamderer

What I am saying is that Apple had the power to change it. They are one of the few companies that could have had the momentum and the marketing to change the way that phones and service are sold. And they didn't do it.

IMO, you are over estimating Apple’s power in the cell phone industry. As of now they don’t even have a product for sale.

If Apple released the iPhone contract free, what difference would that have made to the cell providers? What reasons would they have to change the way they do business?

On the other hand, by signing an exclusive agreement with AT&T/Cingular, Apple was able to influence changes like visual voicemail. How dramatic these changes will be is yet to be seen. I am hoping that the Iphone will be released with a custom data & voice plan that is more reasonably priced than the current offerings.

Posted by: ajpprc

As far as I can see the only ones who benefit from unsubsidized cell phones are the phone manufacturers whose margins jump by selling retail. Why would I want to give up a subsidized phon every 2 years (or 1 year if your smart)?

Posted by: FL1134

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajpprc

As far as I can see the only ones who benefit from unsubsidized cell phones are the phone manufacturers whose margins jump by selling retail. Why would I want to give up a subsidized phon every 2 years (or 1 year if your smart)?

No provider branding, firmware, removed features, etc. Plus you don't support the same Telco's that are trying to stop net neutrality.

Posted by: CowboyNYC

Selection as well. The practice of subsidized phones is IMO a terrible thing for consumers, manufactures and the whole industry. Know Cingular counted each year of contracts as $50 towards the subsidized price. The practice of subsidized phones is what keeps prices up and the service provider in CONTROL. Though with exclusive deals and partnerships a subsidized phone might only be available. For whats its worth with the iPhone it is said there will be "No provider branding, firmware, removed features, etc"

Posted by: makoona

i'm pretty sure if you start up new service with cingular contract free, you don't get free mobile to mobile, so there are other ways the goad you. Short of getting rid of subsidized phones, there should be a discount given to people who bring their own phones to the service. As it is, it's those of us who buy our unlocked phones elsewhere that are subsidizing people's $0.00 phones.

Posted by: Gag

Topic is nonsense. Unless your cingular service is really really bad, you should be with Cingular anyway.

Posted by: Gag

Oh and as for subsidizing free phones, it's not people who buy unlocked phones who do it. The free phones are the crappiest phones that the carrier is trying to get rid of.

Posted by: scooterman

If the iphone was not locked to a carrier and just sold in stores, do you know how many people who buy one and call verizon and sprint wanting to activate it on their current line. This would be a mess and make the product fail. Most people in the US have no idea what cdma/evdo/gsm/gprs/edge/utms is. If it said on the box quad band gsm it wouldn't mean anything a cell phone is a cell phone right - thats what they would think.

i feel what they did wrong with the iphone is

1. non removable battery
2. no 3rd party apps
3. 2 handed operation (marketed to people who don't realize its going to be very hard to use with 1 hand).
4. everything on touch screen (no keys)
5. weak camera for a $600 phone if it was $300-400 i wouldn't complain
6. no itunes downloads over gprs/edge ( not a feature id normally want, but on an ipod phone i would expect it )

how many car accidents do you think there will be from someone trying to dial on an iphone while driving?

Posted by: CowboyNYC

Think before one claims what "they did wrong with the iPhone is" might want to wait to see what the full spec's are and perhaps wait till the iPhone is in consumers hands. We know the spec's and the keynote fell far short of telling everything about the features and functions of the iPhone. Look around you'll find information which differs on those 6 points.
2 handed operation? Where did this come from? Don't see anything yet that requires two hands to operate the iPhone.

I think it's time to give the American consumer more credit as to knowing what device works with what service provider. If not this would be a good lesson to show the current system is not in the consumers best interest and a push for change.

Posted by: wot_fan

Quote:

Originally Posted by scooterman

i feel what they did wrong with the iphone is

1. non removable battery

Since this has been discussed a lot already, I will just say that IMO it is not going to be a problem for the average user.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scooterman

2. no 3rd party apps

This item has also been discussed a lot. In short, there will be 3rd party apps (approved by Apple) as well as widgets.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scooterman

3. 2 handed operation (marketed to people who don't realize its going to be very hard to use with 1 hand).

I don't know what you are basing this on. Several of the "hands on" reviews I have read state that the 1 handed operation is very good. I think we should reserve judgment until it can be tested by more people though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scooterman

4. everything on touch screen (no keys)

Again I think we should wait and see before assuming this will not work well. Some of the "hands on" reviews I have read have been very positive in regards to the keyboard while others have not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scooterman

5. weak camera for a $600 phone if it was $300-400 i wouldn't complain

Again, how can you judge the camera when nobody has used it yet? If you are judging purely based on MPs, I think you need to re-evaluate you position. Look at some of the other threads on this board on the subject. A good 2MP camera will out perform many 3+MP cameras.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scooterman

6. no itunes downloads over gprs/edge ( not a feature id normally want, but on an ipod phone i would expect it )

Apple has filed for a patent to handle this. It may or may not be available when the iPhone is actually released, but I think it is safe to say it will be available in the future.

I am not trying to be argumentative. I just don't want people who come here for info on the iPhone to take your assumptions as fact.

Posted by: dwdrummer66

Everyone is bashing apple for not even hooking in the cingular 3G and stuff and not understanding why they'd create a phone that didn't optimize the service it was attached to...

but i personally like the fact that i can buy the iPhone without a stupid 44.99 data package!! Cell phone carriers are ripping people off with the data crap. Apple said screw you, we don't want our customers to have to pay extra fees to use our phone.

Posted by: wickcity

This phone is going to be a success.

Some folks complain that Verizon cripples their phones and now some people are complaining that Cingular let Apple have thier way. Some times you can't win.

Posted by: CowboyNYC

Too TRUE.

Thats why there is WiFi designed into the iPhone, which is faster than 3G anyhow.

Going 3G, which is currently a mess with no clear path forward becomes a royalty mess. Its shameful that the move forward past the open standard, the family of GSM technologies has become a proprietary, closed technology game of royalties, patents and lawsuits.

http://www.mobileinfo.com/3G/4GVision&Technologies.htm

Quote:

Originally Posted by dwdrummer66

Everyone is bashing apple for not even hooking in the cingular 3G and stuff and not understanding why they'd create a phone that didn't optimize the service it was attached to...

but i personally like the fact that i can buy the iPhone without a stupid 44.99 data package!! Cell phone carriers are ripping people off with the data crap. Apple said screw you, we don't want our customers to have to pay extra fees to use our phone.

Posted by: Gag

I really dont understand why people whine about the lack of a keyboard when you have a virtual one that takes up a hell of a lot less space! Non-removable battery IS a problem but only because we have no idea how apple is going to rip people off who need their batteries replaced. Ultimately, for a lot of users, its not going to be a big deal because its not like you need to get to an SD card or something. I do wonder where they will put the SIM card though. For world travelers who dont want to pay international roaming, I think its outrageous that apple locked the phone to cingular. But for domestic reasons, why the hell not? I dont want those ***** at T-Mobile and their subscribers using the iPhone, I want them on my network paying me a monthly plan.

Lack of third party apps is a bad complaint right now as well, who says you wont be able to add widgets later on or the fact that apple will continually release free software to update the phone's capabilities? If they arent free, we are going to have problems. However, this is not a big deal. You've got itunes for all your media, you have a web browser, honestly, I dont see what the hell else people need at this point.

As for a weak camera, 2 megapixels is just fine but a lack of Auto focus and a flash are just stupid. So I sort of agree with you. Yes, this phone is really overpriced but I think the most important thing to realize is that NO, you do NOT need two hands to use it. What if you have big hands and your thumb can reach whichever button you want to press? And please tell me what kind of smartphone with this kind of functionality can only be used with one hand? If you use a stylus, you're using two hands. A phone that requires two hands to use is not a nuisance, a phone that requires two hands to use compels you to use two freakin hands. That's it. When the iPhone gets some improvements and the price goes down, people are going to fall in love with it. But at this point, only the richest apple fanboys are its guaranteed customers.

Posted by: wamderer

Quote:

Originally Posted by scooterman

If the iphone was not locked to a carrier and just sold in stores, do you know how many people who buy one and call verizon and sprint wanting to activate it on their current line. This would be a mess and make the product fail. Most people in the US have no idea what cdma/evdo/gsm/gprs/edge/utms is. If it said on the box quad band gsm it wouldn't mean anything a cell phone is a cell phone right - thats what they would think.

'Cause, you know, they don't sell boxed hard drives in stores that will only work on certain computers, and HTDV doesn't have at least 3 different cables that the signal can go over.

Forcing people to understand a little bit of the technology that they use isn't a bad thing. Putting a big sign on the box that says:

"Works with Provider A and Provider B" would be enough for most people..

Again, back to the original point. Enough people would have bought the Iphone directly, and would have gone to their providers and said "Hey, you don't have to pay anything for my phone, how about cutting me a break on the bill..." And that would have been a good thing, or, if nothing else, it would have pushed a discussion on the whole ETF/subsidizing phones into the public radar, and caused something to happen.

But, since it didn't happen, it's still business as usual in the world of US cell phones...

Posted by: graphiteRT

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowboyNYC

Too TRUE.

Thats why there is WiFi designed into the iPhone, which is faster than 3G anyhow.

http://www.mobileinfo.com/3G/4GVision&Technologies.htm

I don't think you understand how WiFi works. If you go to a coffee shop with a 256 or 384k DSL connection and 15 people are parked there sharing the WiFi connection, you'll be lucky to get good Edge speed.

WiFi is not the end all. You can stop the cheerleading now.

Posted by: Gag

Keep the cheerleading going, if you use Wifi on a college campus.....pwn3d

Posted by: CowboyNYC

WiFi and Apples choice to use it merit respect. It may not be the "end all" but its the best option currently avalable, for the reason Apple says and many other reasons. Large public places are NOT running open WiFi networks on a DSL line. Muni WiFi does not use a DSL line. Might want to check out what WiFi is doing in the 4G network plans....

Quote:

Originally Posted by graphiteRT

Posted by: tuolumne

Quote:

Originally Posted by CowboyNYC

Too TRUE.

Thats why there is WiFi designed into the iPhone, which is faster than 3G anyhow.

Going 3G, which is currently a mess with no clear path forward becomes a royalty mess. Its shameful that the move forward past the open standard, the family of GSM technologies has become a proprietary, closed technology game of royalties, patents and lawsuits.

http://www.mobileinfo.com/3G/4GVision&Technologies.htm

Why do you insist on copying and pasting that.

Not every thead has to turn into a "burn CDMA", "hail GSM" one, ok?

Posted by: CowboyNYC

Who said anything about cdma but you (yet again)? Take a breath and show everyone where in the post in question above where cdma is mentioned. We were talking about why some feel WiFi is a good choice for the iPhone over alternatives.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tuolumne

Why do you insist on copying and pasting that.

Not every thead has to turn into a "burn CDMA", "hail GSM" one, ok?

Posted by: cowboy1964

Quote:

Originally Posted by graphiteRT

How often would you be in a Wi-Fi hotspot with such a crappy DSL connection and so many people using it at the same time? Not very bloody often.