vB Easy Archive - would you report your SM for this?

Pages: 1

would you report your SM for this?
(Click here to view the original thread with full colors/images)

Posted by: lowkey16

at the end of last month my arsm was on us real hard to finish off the month real good on features, well on the 31st my SM (who is over 2 stores) emails me and a co-worker an excel sheet with a list of customers that had old features (such as 3000 text and the old pda plans). well we were too busy for me to even really look at it. well today i decided to go back to my december commissions and see what customers i could get updated on newer features, at this time i realized that all my features had been changed between july 31 and august 2 by employees at our other store. so i'm now assuming that he went into our MyComp and printed out all the features that we sold and gave them to other employees, the sheet that he sent me was only sent to me though...making me believe that he sent each worker that worked that day somebody's commissions. this in essence is him stealing my customers and giving them to someone else, but it also brings up the issue as there were so many features changed...did they really even call the customers before changing them. but would you report the SM for doing this, he had no business giving my customers to someone else and especially without asking me. not to mention this cost me several hundred dollars in features that i would've been able to get had they not been given to someone else

Posted by: cingman66

The DAY they changed the media packages I started "flipping" my own features going back 6 months so as to avoid just this situation...someone else getting credit for my work and me getting charged back for previous sales. $8000 later, I am all square.

Posted by: JP Whoregan

If you're not calling the customers, it's a slam, and it's unethical, plain and simple. It's not a slam or unethical as long as you let the customer know you're doing it, and as long as there's a justified reason for doing it.

"Hey Mr. Customer, I was analyzing your bill and I've noticed that you've come pretty close to going over your text limit on a pretty consistent basis. I'm going to update your account to the new text plan that includes unlimited texting for the same money you're paying now, okay?"

Just make sure the vesting period for your market has expired on the old feature so the previous rep doesn't get screwed, and just make sure you can justify it later if you have to, and you have nothing to worry about. I've gone as far as to get corny about it by telling my ARSM and managers "well, per the Customer Rules, this plan was more suitable for the customer given thier usage habits."

But if your manager is giving you feature lists that are a)newer than six months old (i.e. - not past the vesting period) and b) is telling you not to call the customer to tell them, I'd have no part in that if I were you.

Basically, what I'm saying is is that there's actually a "legal" way to feature flip, you just have to make sure you're doing it the right way by keeping the customer in the loop. It's not like they're going to complain about getting more messages for less money.

Posted by: shorty28

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowkey16

at the end of last month my arsm was on us real hard to finish off the month real good on features, well on the 31st my SM (who is over 2 stores) emails me and a co-worker an excel sheet with a list of customers that had old features (such as 3000 text and the old pda plans). well we were too busy for me to even really look at it. well today i decided to go back to my december commissions and see what customers i could get updated on newer features, at this time i realized that all my features had been changed between july 31 and august 2 by employees at our other store. so i'm now assuming that he went into our MyComp and printed out all the features that we sold and gave them to other employees, the sheet that he sent me was only sent to me though...making me believe that he sent each worker that worked that day somebody's commissions. this in essence is him stealing my customers and giving them to someone else, but it also brings up the issue as there were so many features changed...did they really even call the customers before changing them. but would you report the SM for doing this, he had no business giving my customers to someone else and especially without asking me. not to mention this cost me several hundred dollars in features that i would've been able to get had they not been given to someone else

thats the type of unethical crap that goes on at AT&T. i have this guy that goes into MyComp from about a year ago and changes features of those previous numbers to get paid for it again, thus his higher numbers with little opportunities. now, i thought that it was odd because everyone in the store so far this month, his around $400 dollars in revenue and he's at almost $1500 in features sales with low ops and he's not a "go-getta", his selling technique sucks. if this is what u gotta do to get ahead, then so be it.

Posted by: lowkey16

but my thing is these were MY customers that he essentially stole from me and gave to other reps. i do roccs calls and check bills every single day i work, getting features that way is 100% understandable and i have no issue if someone takes my customer that way. but when somebody has direct access to my MyComp list and is taking them it is 100% wrong

Posted by: officiallygone

Quote:

Originally Posted by shorty28

Haha Now that is funny.... Maybe it happens because they are not paid enough. I blame at&t for that because they apparently don't pay their employees enough and/or don't regulate it strong enough.

Posted by: JP Whoregan

when you slash feature pay from 75% to 25% or lower, while simultaneously raising feature "monthly goals", this is the kind of crap that will happen. Employees usually don't like being told that they now have to sell 4 times as many features as they used to just to make the same money they made a year ago.

Garbage in, garbage out.

The "system" (i.e. - upper management) screws with the reps, the reps screw with the system. That simple.

Posted by: lowkey16

Quote:

Originally Posted by JP Whoregan

when you slash feature pay from 75% to 25% or lower, while simultaneously raising feature "monthly goals", this is the kind of crap that will happen. Employees usually don't like being told that they now have to sell 4 times as many features as they used to just to make the same money they made a year ago.

Garbage in, garbage out.

The "system" (i.e. - upper management) screws with the reps, the reps screw with the system. That simple.

but in my case it wasn't really the reps fault...it was the manager

Posted by: JP Whoregan

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowkey16

but in my case it wasn't really the reps fault...it was the manager

You have to understand....your store manager is getting HAMMERED in daily, weekly, and monthly conference calls by your ARSM and the DOS, asking your Store Manager why your reps (i.e. - you) aren't selling more features. If *you* look bad, your *SM* looks bad, so naturally, your SM is going to get creative in finding ways to get the feature revenue *FOR HIS/HER WHOLE STORE* up to snuff, so he/she doesn't get hounded in the conference calls anymore. Basically, you've heard the expression "S**T rolls downhill". Your SM is trying to keep the s**t of thier back by finding ways for the feat. revenue of the whole store to go up.

I'm positive that's why your SM gave you that list. He's trying to keep his job, just like you are trying to keep your job. Just play by the rules that I described above, only do 'legal' feature flipping, and you'll be fine.

Posted by: lowkey16

Quote:

Originally Posted by JP Whoregan

i'm sorry, but there is NO excuse for what he did. if he wanted to do this, he should've given me the list of my customers...not give them to somebody else. our 2 stores have led the area in features for 4 months in a row, he's not in any kind of danger of being disciplined for this.

Posted by: JP Whoregan

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowkey16

then report him to HR if you feel it's warranted.

Posted by: PPCMD

First your SM (AT&T) will say these are not your customers but the companies customers that you manage, trust me I have heard this for a very long time in sales.

At the end of the day as noted you can contact HR (see your union rep if you have one) next contact the FTC and you State AG about this. Unless he/she can prove they have been calling every customer and have written proof of customer acceptance they are in for some fun times. Its illegal and they know it.

Posted by: iam4161987

actually calling a customer using mycomp is against company policy. we had quite a few fires this year over it. it is against our privacy agreement to access an account without the customer present, regaurdless of situation. you cannot call a customer without using roccs... your customer or not... it was a HUGE ordeal in i wanna say june but it might have been may. we lost 6 reps in my area, because of it. you can report your manager. they broke our privacy agreement, and thats termination worthy.

Posted by: lowkey16

Quote:

Originally Posted by iam4161987

actually calling a customer using mycomp is against company policy. we had quite a few fires this year over it. it is against our privacy agreement to access an account without the customer present, regaurdless of situation. you cannot call a customer without using roccs... your customer or not... it was a HUGE ordeal in i wanna say june but it might have been may. we lost 6 reps in my area, because of it. you can report your manager. they broke our privacy agreement, and thats termination worthy.

i actually read the privacy agreement on MyComp today and that is what i was getting from it. the company could actually be asking for a lawsuit, as they are constantly telling us to go back in our MyComp when new plans come out and get our customers to change to the new plans before somebody else takes our commission. wow, this is crazy and exposes a major problem within this company

Posted by: iam4161987

yeah it trickles down. we were all told by our managers to get on mycomp and start makin calls. the reason why our district got red flagged is because quite a few of the customers called were on the "no call" list and my comp wont show that. you are not allowed to call a customers cell phone to solicit sales, you have to call their listed home phone. that is also part of our privacy agreement, that we would not market to your private cell line. but people do it. i wish i still had those emails that corp sent us. i am just letting you guys know that they cracked down hard on our district and we lost quite a few people. and it was also manager ordered. so yeah, that is the biggest flaw with this company. the right hand never knows what the left is doing.

Posted by: ETurla

There is nothing wrong with going back 6 months and printing out my comp commission lists. This is perfectly fine AS LONG as RSC's 1. calling their customers and UPSELLING features. 2. accounts are notated. If you were told to simply slam the features then yes I would make someone aware of it.

Posted by: AppleMac

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowkey16

but my thing is these were MY customers that he essentially stole from me and gave to other reps. i do roccs calls and check bills every single day i work, getting features that way is 100% understandable and i have no issue if someone takes my customer that way. but when somebody has direct access to my MyComp list and is taking them it is 100% wrong

No they were ATT's customers. You were too busy to offer your customers the advantage of the new plans, so other reps did. He did nothing unethical. If any reps slammed the new feats then they did something unethical. The Manager assumes the reps called the customers.

Secondly, I'm willing to bet all of those customers show up in your roccs calls somewhere. Even if they don't you should check with your HR rep, regarding wether it's acceptable to call someone from your comp statement. I'd be very surprised to find that it isn't.

Posted by: lowkey16

Quote:

Originally Posted by nbrownfield

i actually found out for a fact that it is against company policy and is actually illegal to call from your MyComp list. and i obviously wasn't too busy to call them or i wouldn't have ever noticed. and i do roccs calls daily, i have since i started my job with the exception of a 2 month period that they took it offline. the reason it's illegal is exactly what was posted earlier, because people are on do not call lists and while going through your MyComp list there is no way you can tell if they are or not. the first thing that clued me in on this is if you read the privacy policy on the bottom of the page right after you sign in...it clearly states that the data may not be used for "sales or marketing purposes"

Posted by: Portables

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowkey16

How about you come to Richmond? I don't think ANYONE in my stores does roccs. The 222 is NEVER followed, and I think the only people that are even told to do it, by the way it seems, are the SBAs in the market, and that's b/c our SBSM came from retail, then became an SBA, and then the SBSM of the Virginias. She is hard core about following all the standard practices of customer rules.

Posted by: iam4161987

Thank you LowKey... Thank you!!!!

For actually paying attention and reading.

Posted by: droptop97ta

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowkey16

This is directly from the do not call website..... wouldnt you agree that any customer that has a cell phone has an established business relationship with us and we can call them?????

The Do-Not-Call registry does not prevent all unwanted calls. It does not cover the following:

calls from organizations with which you have established a business relationship;

calls for which you have given prior written permission;

calls which are not commercial or do not include unsolicited advertisements;

calls by or on behalf of tax-exempt non-profit organizations.

http://www.fcc.gov/cgb/donotcall/

Posted by: cingman66

Quote:

Originally Posted by droptop97ta

The proverbial nail-on-the-head...we can call any of our customers whenever we want...unless they specifically tell us not to.

Posted by: lowkey16

Quote:

Originally Posted by droptop97ta

how about going to these 2 sites and reading: MyComp and ROCCS. on MyComp it clearly states that the info can't be used for sales. then in ROCCS it states that under no circumstance are you to call the mobile number, you must use the home phone number. yes they have established business, but it is with a cell phone...those rules are for home phones

Posted by: iam4161987

EXACTLY! The only point to be made is that anyone making sales calls under the following conditions is breaking company policy, and in some cases the law, and subject to disiplinary action, no matter the level of employment.

1. Using any other customer database application other than ROCCS, (i.e. OPUS, MyComp, ect.) to make outbound solocitation calls for upgrades, add-a-lines, and features.

2. Solociting to a customer on their personal, or business, cellular phone. All solocitations must be directed to the listed home phone.

3. Calling a customer who is on a "Do-Not-Call" list. These customers must not be called for solocitation, under any circumstances.

This is company policy. Sorry. Its, as i am sure we are all tired of hearing, non-negotiable. Excuse all you want, reason all you want, but that is company policy and breaking policy is calls for disiplinary action. So in responce to the OP, Yeah... report her/him. The argument has nothing to do with who they gave what to, or wether or not it was fair. Its based on the fact that they PRINTED OUT MY COMP FILES AND PASSED THEM OUT FOR SOLOCITATION. That, if nothing else they did, was against company policy.

Posted by: snoopdarr

Just go through your mycomp again, and the ones that got moved to the new feature, flip to your code. Now the money's yours. Justice.

Posted by: JP Whoregan

The Do Not Call Registry does not prevent us from calling a customer under any circumstances. ATT might try to say it is "against the law" to call outside of ROCCS. But it is not against the "law", it is only against company policy. If you have ever signed a contract with any company at any time, they have the right to call you as they see fit for follow ups or other business-related reasons. Ever buy a new car? They send you a birthday card, they will usually call you 2 weeks after the sale to ask for an "over-the-phone" customer survey, hell they might call you up to 3 years later on the phone to try to get you to trade to a new model (has happened to me personally), etc etc.

It's company policies, not "the law". I was told this very same thing in training, and anybody who's even remotely aware of the DNC registry knows it's not true. This is just another instance of Corporate ATT trying to exploit the percieved ignorance of its employees.

Posted by: JP Whoregan

Quote:

Originally Posted by snoopdarr

Just go through your mycomp again, and the ones that got moved to the new feature, flip to your code. Now the money's yours. Justice.

People shouldn't be flipping or "upselling" features that are less than 6 months old, for any reason. I know that's not the "company line", but in my store, when dealing with ROCCS calls, we all pretty much stick to an unwritten code that if the feature is still within the vesting period, and a fellow sales rep could get the ol' stiff willy on a chargeback, then we don't mess with it. It's just bad karma.

Posted by: SimplyDrew

This is probably why I never mess with the retail stores when I want something done. If you go back six months on me and change a feature of mine to something else that's "newer" or "better", I'm going to be pissed. I didn't ask for it, and I don't want to be called about it. Removing my feature that I am paying for just so you can profit again from it for a sale is simply nuts.

Posted by: JP Whoregan

Um...OK, so.....

Old Media Works Plan:
$14.99 per month
1000 SMS/MMS messages
5MB Media Net

New Media Works Plan:
$14.99 per month
1500 SMS/MMS messages
5MB Media Net

Old Messaging Plan
$19.99 per month
3000 SMS/MMS Messaging "Extreme"

New Messaging Plan
$19.99 per month
UNLIMITED SMS/MMS Messaging

You mean to tell me that if you had a feature that was 2 years old, and there was a NEW feature that was EXACTLY the same price for MORE MESSAGES, that you would actually get pissed off about me calling you from a "retail store" to tell you about it?

Um, lets see.....no change in bill, no change in price, but you get MORE for your money....this has to be about the only industry in the world where a customer would actually complain about getting more for their money...but I guess some people just actually take joy in finding reasons to get pissed off about something

Posted by: SimplyDrew

Quote:

Originally Posted by JP Whoregan

Um...OK, so.....

Old Media Works Plan:
$14.99 per month
1000 SMS/MMS messages
5MB Media Net

New Media Works Plan:
$14.99 per month
1500 SMS/MMS messages
5MB Media Net

Old Messaging Plan
$19.99 per month
3000 SMS/MMS Messaging "Extreme"

New Messaging Plan
$19.99 per month
UNLIMITED SMS/MMS Messaging

You mean to tell me that if you had a feature that was 2 years old, and there was a NEW feature that was EXACTLY the same price for MORE MESSAGES, that you would actually get pissed off about me calling you from a "retail store" to tell you about it?

Um, lets see.....no change in bill, no change in price, but you get MORE for your money....this has to be about the only industry in the world where a customer would actually complain about getting more for their money...but I guess some people just actually take joy in finding reasons to get pissed off about something

That has nothing to do with it. It's my money, and my plan to keep or change as I please. It should be the responsibility of the customer to change the plan at their option instead of being called by a representative that wants to up his paycheck for a feature change. I understand the point, however it's just the purpose of you calling and wanting to change someone's feature just because you want the added benefits. If a customer walks into your store and is there for the sole purpose of changing the plan, or even doing a phone upgrade or other sale, that's fine. It's understandable that you would pitch the service to them to upgrade.

Most all of your posts have some kind of demeanor that always puts you on the side of the company. Can't you just back off and respect other CUSTOMER opinions instead of making snide comments and memorizing the

command?

Posted by: NoLimitz80

Quote:

Originally Posted by SimplyDrew

command?

Well I have to disagree with you on everything you just said. I worked in Retail selling phones and I had customers complaining to me because I did NOT call them to tell them about getting more bang for there buck. And the customers that I did call to tell about it thanked me for it. If only all customers believed what you believe because my life would be tons easier

Posted by: lowkey16

Quote:

Originally Posted by SimplyDrew

command?

that may be a sales reps intentions, but it's not the company's. bottom line is they want you to text more, they want you to use more internet...they want your bill to be the same every month in order to reduce churn. this is why we have ROCCS, it's to save people money on their bill and keep them from going over...all while being able to use it more often without really having to worry about going over if they were staying within their plan to begin with. i have NEVER had a customer that i called and told them that they could get 500 more text for the same price, complain about me calling. while i may be calling to make money, it's helping you out. bottom line is it doesn't matter what my intentions are, the question you have to ask yourself is "am i getting more for my money?" and in everyone of these cases you are. your rant is just stupid and baseless...as isn't it everybody's intention to make money when they're at work? do you think i would take the time to sell you a phone and go through all the features and show you how to use them if i weren't making money?

Posted by: JP Whoregan

THANK YOU, LowKey and NoLimitz. You just saved me a bunch of typing. It just mystifies me when there are customers who are not just "ignorant", which is understandable (I'm ignorant about alot of things in life as well) but it's amazing that some will insist on remaining that way. I call it "arrogant ignorance". It's like...Uh, yeah, duh, I'm at work, and I'm trying to make money, so I call you to tell you that your feature is out of date and a new one would give you a better value for your money. The Customer wins because they get more for thier dollar, the Company wins because a customer who gets more for thier money is (USUALLY) a "happy" customer *mod edit*, that customer is now LESS likely to have bill overages,.... and the Rep wins because he/she gets the credit for the feature. Everybody wins, nobody loses.

And you guys are right, I have called people on ROCCS who have complained that we didn't call them SOONER to tell them about the updated features. It's pretty sad when some people have such a distrust of pretty much "everybody" that they think everybody's intentions are ill and completely selfish.

Posted by: Seltzer

Quote:

Originally Posted by officiallygone

Haha Now that is funny.... Maybe it happens because they are not paid enough. I blame at&t for that because they apparently don't pay their employees enough and/or don't regulate it strong enough.

A lot of people still don't realize that even though Cingular Wireless was renamed to AT&T, the new AT&T Mobility is still a company on its own. It won't remain that long forever as the wireless side grows larger, but when you have a greedy and blatantly heartless man like Stan Sigman at the helm, a world where mediocre pay and strict demands continues on. The question is, whether the AT&T big wigs will look the other way since AT&T Mobility turns up an attractable profit. Also, to blame is CWA, they are practically useless when it comes to help AT&T Mobility members. Useless.

Posted by: JP Whoregan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seltzer

Also, to blame is CWA, they are practically useless when it comes to help AT&T Mobility members. Useless.

Yep, and that's the reason no store in my area is bargained. The CWA has all of these pre-negotiated contracts that pretty much surrender all commission judgements to management, and lets "the company" continue to give us the ol' saucy trombone when it comes to the people who DRIVE this business, the commissioned salespeople.

"Hi, we're the CWA, and we can stick up for you, and help you fight "the man" for your vacation time, and we'll take our 1.3% out of your paycheck, and we'll make sure that hourly people keep getting their menial, meaningless "step raises" that never equate to more than about 12 cents per hour, and yada yada yada..."

"But what about the fact that feature at-risk pay keeps getting smaller while the feature goals keep going higher? Commission in general is dwindling during a time of record profits in the wireless industry. Can you help us?"

"We don't negotiate commissions. Next question."

The CWA can shove it They might be beneficial for call center people, but they don't do JACK to help the sales reps.

Posted by: iam4161987

Quote:

Originally Posted by JP Whoregan

"Hi, we're the CWA, and we can stick up for you, and help you fight "the man" for your vacation time, and we'll take our 1.3% out of your paycheck, and we'll make sure that hourly people keep getting their menial, meaningless "step raises" that never equate to more than about 12 cents per hour, and yada yada yada..."

"But what about the fact that feature at-risk pay keeps getting smaller while the feature goals keep going higher? Commission in general is dwindling during a time of record profits in the wireless industry. Can you help us?"

"We don't negotiate commissions. Next question."

The CWA can shove it They might be beneficial for call center people, but they don't do JACK to help the sales reps.

HERE HERE! How can you deal with a SALES REP and not negotiate commissions? That is easily between 1/3 and 1/2 of our pay, and yet that isnt negotiable? "Excuse me Lady CWA, but how would you feel if they took half of your yearly income and decresed that portion 50%. You are now missing A QUARTER OF YOUR YEARLY INCOME. so your little 100-120,000 a year position was just dropped 25,00-30,000 bucks in salary. Woops, There goes that new car! Now do you get the point?"

I pay these people... and for what? so someone can stand next to me during a write up? f*ck that!!

Posted by: JP Whoregan

That's the problem with unions, it's REAL easy to get them in, but it's almost impossible to get them out once you realize that your "step raise" pretty much gets eaten up by the 1.3% you have to pay in union dues.

That, and my vacation time as a non-bargained employee is better than the bargained "union" vacation plan. According to the union brochure I read, they "negotiate" 7 or 8 days of paid time off after one year of employment with the company....but ATT gave me 88 hours, or 11 days, of paid time off from the START date of employment. I started with this company in late May, and my manager is actually FORCING me to take my 11 days off before they expire on December 31st...

Posted by: elushon

PFffft...At least it's something.

The indirect I'm stuck at hasn't given me time off in two years.

TWO F'ING YEARS of minimum 36 hours a week.

Posted by: classylady78

I had worked in bargained for position for Cingular, and now work in a non-bargained position at At&t. I thought CWA was useless. We paid for the union and didn't really see much for it. I would rather pay for my own personal dental (which isn't even that much money) and get an extra couple of days vacation time. I do not understand how a union for sales people, doesn't negotiate commissions. It is ridiculous.

Posted by: JP Whoregan

Full dental is only $10 per month. I'll pay that all day long before I give some Union lackey 1.3% of my pay until the end of time to do some crap that I can do myself. Unless they actually grow a sack and start taking action to a) negotiate sales rep commissions and b) thereafter start reversing the feature payout that has been steadily declining, then I'm going to continue to file their little "union enrollment cards" straight into my rectal file.

Posted by: PPCMD

Unions collect money, say they will back you but when the picket lines start, they will offer you a joke pay check while your on the line. I have seen it, lived through it and don't want to go that way ever again.