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More CS BS

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Posted by: cingman66

The fun never stops here at AT&T. Just had a customer come in with two new phones that he "purchased" from our lovely web-site. One small problem--the SIM cards are both burned out/non-working. He called CS and they told him to simply go to the nearest store and have them replaced/activated properly for free. I explained to the customer that it didn't matter what CS told him, I couldn't give him 2 free SIM cards. After his repeated attempts to convince me to "look up his account and read the notes," I was able to penetrate his thick skull with the realization that he was not going to get the free cards. When he finally asked 'why', I explained that if AT&T was going to take the time and MONEY to sell the phones, then they would also be responsible for taking the time to FIX their own problems. If he wished to do business IN A STORE with live human beings that could actually help him, then he was going to have to return everything to them and start over with us. Several puzzled looks later, I think he got the picture.

Anybody else got a gem to share regarding CS BS?


Posted by: CA

Quote:
Originally Posted by cingman66
The fun never stops here at AT&T. Just had a customer come in with two new phones that he "purchased" from our lovely web-site. One small problem--the SIM cards are both burned out/non-working. He called CS and they told him to simply go to the nearest store and have them replaced/activated properly for free. I explained to the customer that it didn't matter what CS told him, I couldn't give him 2 free SIM cards. After his repeated attempts to convince me to "look up his account and read the notes," I was able to penetrate his thick skull with the realization that he was not going to get the free cards. When he finally asked 'why', I explained that if AT&T was going to take the time and MONEY to sell the phones, then they would also be responsible for taking the time to FIX their own problems. If he wished to do business IN A STORE with live human beings that could actually help him, then he was going to have to return everything to them and start over with us. Several puzzled looks later, I think he got the picture.

Anybody else got a gem to share regarding CS BS?


Quote:
I got a rock!

Give the guy the dam cards and get over yourself! Really why punish a customer when you can do something that can make a difference...like quit. That will teach them to mess with you.


Posted by: cingman66

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonix
Give the guy the dam cards and get over yourself! Really why punish a customer when you can do something that can make a difference...like quit. That will teach them to mess with you.


You're hilarious. Why should I perpetuate my own demise by helping AT&T? This is a forum to discuss experiences...not criticize each other and pass judgment. When you walk a mile in my shoes, then you can talk.


Posted by: CA

Quote:
Originally Posted by cingman66
You're hilarious. Why should I perpetuate my own demise by helping AT&T? This is a forum to discuss experiences...not criticize each other and pass judgment. When you walk a mile in my shoes, then you can talk.
Trust me, I know some of what you're going through, but taking it out on strangers who can be potential friends and your customers doesn't sound as good as ranting about CS. Thats really what this is about, just send them hate email, make it a movement...something, but let the little people alone.

Have you ever tried emailing Stan? He pays your salary and CS is wasting your time/his money. Hell he might even get a laugh about it over the Kool-Aid.


Posted by: shorty28

Quote:
Originally Posted by cingman66
The fun never stops here at AT&T. Just had a customer come in with two new phones that he "purchased" from our lovely web-site. One small problem--the SIM cards are both burned out/non-working. He called CS and they told him to simply go to the nearest store and have them replaced/activated properly for free. I explained to the customer that it didn't matter what CS told him, I couldn't give him 2 free SIM cards. After his repeated attempts to convince me to "look up his account and read the notes," I was able to penetrate his thick skull with the realization that he was not going to get the free cards. When he finally asked 'why', I explained that if AT&T was going to take the time and MONEY to sell the phones, then they would also be responsible for taking the time to FIX their own problems. If he wished to do business IN A STORE with live human beings that could actually help him, then he was going to have to return everything to them and start over with us. Several puzzled looks later, I think he got the picture.

Anybody else got a gem to share regarding CS BS?


i would've changed the SIM cards for him.

Me: "Sure, we can take care of that for you. What's your mobile number?"
Customer: "xxx-xxx-xxxx"
Me: "okay sir, i've notice customer care didn't properly add the features, that you've signed up for, let me fix it for u."
(removes features and re-add then, notates account)
Me:"okay, i've fixed that for you along with your sim cards and enjoy your service with AT&T."
Customer: "Thank you."




Posted by: dm919

Just reconcile all lines/features on the account and call it a day.


Posted by: shorty28

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonix
Trust me, I know some of what you're going through, but taking it out on strangers who can be potential friends and your customers doesn't sound as good as ranting about CS. Thats really what this is about, just send them hate email, make it a movement...something, but let the little people alone.

Have you ever tried emailing Stan? He pays your salary and CS is wasting your time/his money. Hell he might even get a laugh about it over the Kool-Aid.


now now sonix, he's just voicing his opinion. we all do because its a public forum, but can kinda understand where he's coming from. personally, i wouldn't have did that to a customer without getting something outta the deal, but cs does that often and being that we work in a sales environment with a tough quota monster to tame, we try to avoid as much service issues as possible to meet goal attainment and such.


Posted by: cingman66

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonix
Trust me, I know some of what you're going through, but taking it out on strangers who can be potential friends and your customers doesn't sound as good as ranting about CS. Thats really what this is about, just send them hate email, make it a movement...something, but let the little people alone.

Have you ever tried emailing Stan? He pays your salary and CS is wasting your time/his money. Hell he might even get a laugh about it over the Kool-Aid.


There really wasn't any "taking it out" on the customer...I just informed him of how things work in the real world. I was very polite...cordial even...and he understood where I was coming from. Listen, if we don't take the time to educate these customers about the perils of on-line shopping for cell phones, then they will never learn. They will continue to give their money to AT&T while expecting us to suck it up and provide customer service. BTW, I don't work for AT&T...Sigman doesn't sign my checks...and if I thought voicing my opinion to the higher-ups at the Kool-Aid cooler would get us anywhere, I would bombard them every day.

As for the other poster recommending that we "flip" the customers features while in the account to change the SIM card...I can't begin to tell you how wrong I think that is. And in this particular instance, I was way too busy to be doing a once-over on a phone bill to see where I could scrape a few features. Generally speaking, however, we look at every single phone bill that we can looking for ways to make money...but we don't stoop to removing and re-adding the same feature to do it.


Posted by: NukuCamui

I hate it when reps tell people theyre getting free sim cards for the wrong reasons. There ARE specific times the store can give out sims for free (it's in CSP btw) but this doesnt sound like one of those times.


Posted by: lowkey16

my store never charges for sim cards unless the customer is being a complete ***. i don't care where the customer got the phones, even if it was at an agent store or walmart...i try to make their experience in my store as positive as possible, with the hopes that they will come back to my store and many times they do. just today i switched out a sim card for somebody and they threw their credit card on the counter after i had gotten through changing it and when i told her it was free you could tell i had just made her day...that's how you gain customers, not by refusing to do something that customer service has instructed to be done. it only makes the company in general look bad when customer service says one thing and the store says another and in the end we all lose


Posted by: Kimbal

I can't imagine telling a customer that you can't help them over SIM cards. I work for an Agent and would NEVER think of passing up an opportunity to serve a customer NO MATTER WHAT.

I run into daily situations that are opportunities created by instances like this. Trust me, the last thing your customer wanted to hear about is your perception on how the Cingular/AT&T world is supposed to work. Additionally, I can nearly guarantee that your ability to "penetrate his thick skull" may have made you feel like you controlled the situation BUT the customer probably just left and told everyone he knew not to go back to your store due to your inability to solve his issue.

Additionally, you not giving the customer free SIM cards (that more than likely cost your store nothing) also surely eliminated that customer coming back to your store to add any additional lines (since they had trouble online to begin with) OR buying high profit accessories for their phones.

Personally, I just want to say Thank You. It's people like you that make good reps and stores successful. Don't forget.....you are the definition of bad customer service.


Posted by: classylady78

I have worked in Cor stores, and I have never once charged a customer for a sim. That being said, I get paid a higher hourly wage to do customer service stuff. I am not sure how it works for the OP.


Posted by: stlsingledad

Another great agent story. "I don't work for AT&T"....but it's your agent's contract to sell AT&T that pays your bills. In COR stores we may not always like having to fix CS problems, but we do it because taking care of customers is taking care of our own paychecks. Nice job pissing off a customer and making the entire company look bad. I hear Sprint is hiring....we could use more people like you working for them.


Posted by: JP Whoregan

Quote:
Originally Posted by cingman66
You're hilarious. Why should I perpetuate my own demise by helping AT&T?


DING DING DING DING!!!!!!!

This is probably the MOST INTELLIGENT statement I've read since I've been frequenting this board!!!!!

Some of you might be misunderstanding, and in turn jumping all over him. The point, people, that Cingman66 is making, is that everytime we cover up for tele-sales' mistakes, and the internet store's ****-ups, all we are doing is perpetuating this idea that the internet sales arena is the "wave of the future" and that in-store reps are no longer needed for anything but being some tele-sales-***** who changes SIM cards, swaps batteries, listens to complaints, and sells car chargers.

Basically, when a customer comes to ME or other in-store reps like me for service, he/she might pay a little more for thier phone. But guess what? I have a 100% (that's one hundred percent) success rate with customers leaving my store with a WORKING PHONE. Tele-sales and the internet cannot make that claim, and judging by the BS I have to deal with on a daily basis cleaning up thier account errors and swapping dead SIM cards, it doesn't look like they can even come close to my 100% success rate in customers having working phones.

Basically, over the long term, the more reps like Cingman66 cover up the internet's mistakes, we're basically *****-working ourselves out of a job. The less customers buy from knowledgable sales reps and the more they start buying from some faceless intenet drone, that gives AT&T all the more ammunition to kill the in-store consultant job all together. Why should we endanger our own job security by helping the success of the internet and Telephone-sales and in turn hurting ourselves?

No thanks. If telesales craps a mess into a customer's lap, telesales gets to clean it up. If internet sales craps a mess into a customer's lap, internet sales cleans it up.


Posted by: Wiggum

a lot of the CS reps are dolts but do you realize how many calls they process in a day? the vast majority do their job the right way. when i was in care the almost all the non-technical problems came from the pos, which means primarily the sales force. we didnt think all sales reps were tards but it's just the way it's always going to be we did our best to educate the customer.

reps will send customers to stores and store reps will tell people to call care. deal with it or find a new line of sales.


Posted by: JP Whoregan

I don't tell my customers to call care for anything but bill credits/adjustments, and that's only because I can't mess with bills. Plan changes, feature changes, bill inquiries, etc I will handle in store and not pass off to care.

Unless of course, a customer got a free 6102 off the internet and is bringing it to me so I can spend a half hour showing him how to use it, set up his BT, and transfer his numbers. If this tard was "too busy" to come into the store to buy his phone that he had to do it the "quick way" on the internet, well, now I'm "too busy" dealing with actual customers of mine who value my time. Sorry, but the guy over there standing next to the PDA's or the phone wall display wanting to activate service/upgrade his phone with me today and actually do business with me is the one who gets my attention first and foremost.

Call me an *** or whatever makes ya feel good, but that's the way it is


Posted by: Wiggum

so, by the sounds of it, you do your job just like the majority of care reps.


Posted by: shorty28

Quote:
Originally Posted by JP Whoregan
DING DING DING DING!!!!!!!

This is probably the MOST INTELLIGENT statement I've read since I've been frequenting this board!!!!!

Some of you might be misunderstanding, and in turn jumping all over him. The point, people, that Cingman66 is making, is that everytime we cover up for tele-sales' mistakes, and the internet store's ****-ups, all we are doing is perpetuating this idea that the internet sales arena is the "wave of the future" and that in-store reps are no longer needed for anything but being some tele-sales-***** who changes SIM cards, swaps batteries, listens to complaints, and sells car chargers.

Basically, when a customer comes to ME or other in-store reps like me for service, he/she might pay a little more for thier phone. But guess what? I have a 100% (that's one hundred percent) success rate with customers leaving my store with a WORKING PHONE. Tele-sales and the internet cannot make that claim, and judging by the BS I have to deal with on a daily basis cleaning up thier account errors and swapping dead SIM cards, it doesn't look like they can even come close to my 100% success rate in customers having working phones.

Basically, over the long term, the more reps like Cingman66 cover up the internet's mistakes, we're basically *****-working ourselves out of a job. The less customers buy from knowledgable sales reps and the more they start buying from some faceless intenet drone, that gives AT&T all the more ammunition to kill the in-store consultant job all together. Why should we endanger our own job security by helping the success of the internet and Telephone-sales and in turn hurting ourselves?

No thanks. If telesales craps a mess into a customer's lap, telesales gets to clean it up. If internet sales craps a mess into a customer's lap, internet sales cleans it up.



neva though about that. i think AT&T should totally sever the ties between COR stores and internet/telesales period.


Posted by: JP Whoregan

You're absolutely right. AT&T should either kill the telesales/internet channel (never going to happen), OR kill the in-store sales rep position altogether, fire me and the rest of the in-person sales force, and just staff the "stores" with a bunch of 18-year-old number-puncher clerks who get paid $8 per hour to listen to complaints and show people how to program a Bluetooth.

Because do you know what telesales and the internet is doing while I clean up thier messes and errors? You guessed it, they're doing MORE SALES.

Or, at the very least, let's make it clear to people that problems originating with telesales or the internet have to be resolved via telesales or the internet. In the store, I have a daily, weekly, and monthly sales quota to hit, and if I don't hit that quota for more than two months in a row, I can lose my job and be pounding concrete. Yes, I do make a somewhat paltry "hourly wage", but I cannot live on that wage alone, and if I'm not hitting my quotas, then I'm not making the money I need to pay my bills. This is why, as *SALES CONSULTANTS*, we are less than enthusiastic about having to spend 45 minutes "holding a customer's hand" who bought off the internet and doesn't know how to turn on thier free 6102, and secondly, is also too lazy to read the owner's manual.

Corny "sales reps" will be quick to snap at me "but every person who walks through the door is an opportunity to sell".....um, that's a line of BS. The guy who gets the free 6102 from telesales is not the guy who's going to buy a car charger from you, he's going to the flea market to get a cheap 'knockoff' universal one. If he didn't wanna spend even ONE DIME on his phone, he sure as hell isn't gonna spend $30 for a charger and $5 for a text messaging plan; he just wants an hour-long FREE tutorial in the store on how to use his "new free phone". So let's just please *can* the whole "every customer is an opportunity" line before it starts.


Posted by: cingman66

Quote:
Originally Posted by JP Whoregan
You're absolutely right. AT&T should either kill the telesales/internet channel (never going to happen), OR kill the in-store sales rep position altogether, fire me and the rest of the in-person sales force, and just staff the "stores" with a bunch of 18-year-old number-puncher clerks who get paid $8 per hour to listen to complaints and show people how to program a Bluetooth.

Because do you know what telesales and the internet is doing while I clean up thier messes and errors? You guessed it, they're doing MORE SALES.

Or, at the very least, let's make it clear to people that problems originating with telesales or the internet have to be resolved via telesales or the internet. In the store, I have a daily, weekly, and monthly sales quota to hit, and if I don't hit that quota for more than two months in a row, I can lose my job and be pounding concrete. Yes, I do make a somewhat paltry "hourly wage", but I cannot live on that wage alone, and if I'm not hitting my quotas, then I'm not making the money I need to pay my bills. This is why, as *SALES CONSULTANTS*, we are less than enthusiastic about having to spend 45 minutes "holding a customer's hand" who bought off the internet and doesn't know how to turn on thier free 6102, and secondly, is also too lazy to read the owner's manual.

Corny "sales reps" will be quick to snap at me "but every person who walks through the door is an opportunity to sell".....um, that's a line of BS. The guy who gets the free 6102 from telesales is not the guy who's going to buy a car charger from you, he's going to the flea market to get a cheap 'knockoff' universal one. If he didn't wanna spend even ONE DIME on his phone, he sure as hell isn't gonna spend $30 for a charger and $5 for a text messaging plan; he just wants an hour-long FREE tutorial in the store on how to use his "new free phone". So let's just please *can* the whole "every customer is an opportunity" line before it starts.



I'm tired and off to bed at the moment, so I'll respond fully tomorrow to all the posts...but I just had to tell you that I almost had a tear in my eye as I read your posts. FINALLY, somebody on this blasted forum gets it.


Posted by: Wonwad

Cingman is right, it's NOT our job to clean up AT&T's crappy mistakes. If you're gonna compete with us and make it harder for us to sell with your crappy internet deals, then fix your own crap, don't send them to us. Couple days ago a CS rep calls me and asks me if I can give a customer a free Sync because he paid $89.99 already and for some reason didn't get the phone. I wanted to laugh at his face but I told him to call the COR store and even gave him the number, I just felt bad for him. C'mon AT&T...


Posted by: cingtd

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wonwad
Cingman is right, it's NOT our job to clean up AT&T's crappy mistakes. If you're gonna compete with us and make it harder for us to sell with your crappy internet deals, then fix your own crap, don't send them to us.

I will keep that in mind next time I see an agent setup 2 lines on separate Family Talk plans as primary lines each and not only have to fix the plan but also apply a credit to the account because the customer got overcharged.


Posted by: cyrus369

Quote:
Originally Posted by shorty28
i would've changed the SIM cards for him.

Me: "Sure, we can take care of that for you. What's your mobile number?"
Customer: "xxx-xxx-xxxx"
Me: "okay sir, i've notice customer care didn't properly add the features, that you've signed up for, let me fix it for u."
(removes features and re-add then, notates account)
Me:"okay, i've fixed that for you along with your sim cards and enjoy your service with AT&T."
Customer: "Thank you."
Exactly why dealers have a bad rep and I keep a dealer code change form on the desktop of every computer I use... You flip my feature I change it right back and report you..but alot of good that seems to do.


Posted by: Isriam

Quote:
but being some tele-sales-b***h who changes SIM cards, swaps batteries, listens to complaints, and sells car chargers.


since when were sales anything other than that? how many threads do we have to read about sales blatantly lying to customers about network capabilities, phone capabalities, and account settings?

give me telesales + hofo and i'll be WAY more informed than any sales person could ever be.

think about it, at&t is hiring 18 and 19 yr olds to do the sales job. they do not care if you hold a customers hand for 3 hours, or tell him you don't know and can't help him.


Posted by: ivwshane

I would have updated the sim cards as quick as possible, asked if any additional purchases or rate plan changes were needed and moved on.

A salesman in at&t's eyes is someone that takes ownership and drives business, apparently an agents definition of a salesman doesn't match.


Posted by: Isriam

I was a little harsh on the guy, but seriously not helping a CUSTOMER who pays your PAYCHECK over a sim? How lazy can you be?

And yes, throwing it off as "helping make the problem worse" is nothing but a lazy cop out.

But then again everyone in a Union is used to that type of attitude right?


Posted by: suthurnlatino

Cingman works for an Agent BTW. I don't know how they can give something for "free" without making profit. Wouldn't it hurt his store? I doubt the customer in the situation would come to the store if he was buying free phones online anyways. I agree with what most of JP said.

What I think AT&T should have done is credited the customer the cost of the SIM cards instead of sending them searching for "free" simcards.


Posted by: ivwshane

I agree. If customer care sent the customer to an agent store for a free sim card they should have credit the price of the sim cards to the account and let the dealer ring it up without taking a loss.


Unfortunately this isn't something that only happens to agents, I've had customer care offer customers ridiculous things and sent them to cor stores to pick it up.


Posted by: Isriam

It isn't the customers fault that Cingular uses COR and Agents. Less people could tell you the difference between COR and Agent than GSM and CDMA.


Posted by: CA

I admit I like the credit then purchase idea, it has worked for me a few times because I made money by buying a battery at Walmart, but what do SIM card actually cost?

I know they are sold to the carrier for pennies and that would leave agents making profit on something that wasn't intended to be a product. Remember not all customers would be getting a CS credit that leaves those customers victims of agents at 25 bucks a piece.


Posted by: JP Whoregan

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isriam
since when were sales anything other than that? how many threads do we have to read about sales blatantly lying to customers about network capabilities, phone capabalities, and account settings?

give me telesales + hofo and i'll be WAY more informed than any sales person could ever be.

think about it, at&t is hiring 18 and 19 yr olds to do the sales job. they do not care if you hold a customers hand for 3 hours, or tell him you don't know and can't help him.


Good. Just remember that the very next time you get a broken phone, or a bad SIM card, or CS messes up a feature on your account. It's customer attitudes like yours that makes me despise telesales customers. And typically I don't have a problem with telesales customers like you, as long as you don't bring your internet "tales of woe" into my store expecting me to spend an hour fixing their problems (yes, an hour is usually how long it takes).

If your attitude about me is that I'm nothing but some lying slimeball who scams customers, and that's why you won't buy from me, then my attitude about you is that you're not worth my time during the business day.


Posted by: JP Whoregan

Quote:
Originally Posted by cingman66
I'm tired and off to bed at the moment, so I'll respond fully tomorrow to all the posts...but I just had to tell you that I almost had a tear in my eye as I read your posts. FINALLY, somebody on this blasted forum gets it.


The reason nobody gets it is because most people reading this stuff have the "customer attitude" about it, and only see things through "the customer is always right" goggles. These are the same people who will buy a computer off the internet, then haul it down to the local CompUSA to have some poor ******* spend an hour installing MS Office for them, and don't think there's anything wrong with doing that.

I'm going to try one analogy, and then I'll be done with this whole argument: Let's say you go to Billy Bob's Ford to buy a brand new Mustang, and Billy Bob Ford promised you a free window tint within one week of your purchase, in order to close the deal and make you happy. Now let's say a week goes by, and Billy Bob's tinting shop just can't squeeze you into the schedule, and now it's going to be at least a month before he can tint your windows. And in the meantime, the car handle latch breaks on your BRAND NEW car, and now you want Billy Bob to fix that for you too.

Well, you, as the customer, doesn't wanna wait a month, so you drive to the next block and go to Jimmy John's Ford and walk in demanding a free window tint, because Billy Bob promised it to you, and you also demand that Jimmy John's Ford fix your broken handle. When Jimmy John's Ford explains to you that you have to go to Billy Bob to get your free window tint and handle fixed, you say to him, "Why can't YOU do it?!?!?! Aren't you BOTH Ford?!?!?!"

Just because two channels (i.e. - the internet and in-store) sell the same PRODUCT doesn't mean that promises made from one side will be honored on the other side. If you buy a Hoover vacuum from WalMart and it breaks, you can't return it to Joe's Appliances and ask Joe to fix it for free just because he happens to also sell Hoover vacuums.

If people still don't get it, then this is a lost cause.


Posted by: Wonwad

Exactly. ^


Posted by: Wrangler3383

Quote:
Originally Posted by suthurnlatino
What I think AT&T should have done is credited the customer the cost of the SIM cards instead of sending them searching for "free" simcards.


I 100% agree with that. I don't think it is an agents responsibility to eat a corporate "error" cost. Whether the customer understands that an agent and COR store are different is a moot point. Fact of the matter is, they ARE totally different entities. Do I think the customer should be treated like an idiot because of where CS sent him? Absolutely not. If it was me I probably would have taken the time to inform him of the difference between agent and corporate. If CS didn't want to credit the account, they should have sent him to a COR store at the very least.

Now my question is, if CS sends someone to a COR store for a free SIM or whatnot, wouldn't that store somehow be reimbursed?


Posted by: JP Whoregan

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrangler3383
Now my question is, if CS sends someone to a COR store for a free SIM or whatnot, wouldn't that store somehow be reimbursed?


My answer is that CS should NOT be sending customers to agents or COR stores for a replacement SIM card at all. Reimbursement is not the issue, the issue is that the more SIM cards we "give away" just because CS sent a customer to our store to get one, that's one less SIM card I have for an activation or upgrade. Corporate sends us enough SIM cards to cover our monthly acts/upgrades, and not much above that. So if we can can avoid "giving them away", we will. Just because we're a "COR" store doesn't mean we're "swimming in SIM cards".

There's NO GOOD REASON for CS to be sending customers to COR stores for SIM cards. They could just as easily fill out a simple online form and have one sent directly from a warehouse to the customer's mailbox, but it's just easier to say "go to a store" just to shut the customer up and get them off the phone.

Funny, but I never get a situation where CS sends a customer into the COR store to activate a new line of service with Family TExt Unlimited. CS has all the time in the world to do that for customers, because they get credit for it. They only seem to want to send customers to store locations when there's a telesales mess that they don't wanna clean up themselves.


Posted by: Madcat455

I'm with JP and Cingman on this one.

If we help telesales/internet sales, we're cutting our own throats. Not now, but down the road.

We recently had someone offer to buy our store....lol. Owners said that they weren't interested, but would think about it. I manage it, and told them to take an offer... if it was good enough SELL and never look back.

Attitude from at&t towards it agents is starting to get as bad as its attitude towards it's employees...lol. And if they can make it out in the black... then get out.

I don't like helping telesales any more than the next guy, but if I can sell something else while handing over that free SIM... I will. Cause we need every sale we can get(I won't stoop to slamming/flipping either though).

ANYONE from telesales that wants me to instruct them though, gets a sent to thier tutorial website. If they were smart enough to order online, then they can get taught from online as well.


JP... I LOVE your ford analogy... nail on the head...LOL. I wonder if anyone actually does that like they do with Cellular


Posted by: Wrangler3383

Quote:
Originally Posted by JP Whoregan
My answer is that CS should NOT be sending customers to agents or COR stores for a replacement SIM card at all. Reimbursement is not the issue, the issue is that the more SIM cards we "give away" just because CS sent a customer to our store to get one, that's one less SIM card I have for an activation or upgrade. Corporate sends us enough SIM cards to cover our monthly acts/upgrades, and not much above that. So if we can can avoid "giving them away", we will. Just because we're a "COR" store doesn't mean we're "swimming in SIM cards".

There's NO GOOD REASON for CS to be sending customers to COR stores for SIM cards. They could just as easily fill out a simple online form and have one sent directly from a warehouse to the customer's mailbox, but it's just easier to say "go to a store" just to shut the customer up and get them off the phone.

Funny, but I never get a situation where CS sends a customer into the COR store to activate a new line of service with Family TExt Unlimited. CS has all the time in the world to do that for customers, because they get credit for it. They only seem to want to send customers to store locations when there's a telesales mess that they don't wanna clean up themselves.


So you are saying that a COR store is NOT just a brick and morter version of AT&T phone care/CS? I always figured that they were one in the same. I personally have been told by CS to go get a new SIM from a COR store because my 6682 kept burning them out. (btw, I got my phone from a COR store to begin with, not the same one, but COR nonetheless). I can see your point if you bought your phone originally off the website, as that is a totally different beast all together. COR stores should be able to handle anything and everything CS does. If the point of your problem is that the time you waste activating that SIM is a possible lost commission for you, I do understand. However that is not the customers fault. Maybe AT&T should make the COR store flat rate pay higher. Then employees wouldn't have to worry so much about that next sale. If anything this is AT&T's fault for not properly defining the lines between sales channels, as well as not properly reimbursing you for your time. I think that the whole commission thing really contradicts the whole customer service aspect of the business. I feel for you guys because it really puts you between a rock and a hard place. You can only do one or the other. Try to make the customer happy via excellent customer care, or make a good paycheck.


Posted by: JP Whoregan

If they didn't hinge our paychecks on sales, then yes, the brick and mortar would be one in the same with CS/internet. But as long as my paycheck depends on sales, customer service can clean up thier own messes. I'm busy cleaning up my own.


Posted by: Wrangler3383

Understood, and like I said I totally feel for you. Just remember that the average customer has absolutely no clue that this is the way of it. This is really terrible the way AT&T manages their COR stores. They should have separate places to send customers with issues vs sales. That would probably help out the situation. Employees at the "support centers" could be paid flat rate, while the employees at the sales location could still be paid based on commission.


Posted by: JP Whoregan

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrangler3383
Understood, and like I said I totally feel for you. Just remember that the average customer has absolutely no clue that this is the way of it. This is really terrible the way AT&T manages their COR stores. They should have separate places to send customers with issues vs sales. That would probably help out the situation. Employees at the "support centers" could be paid flat rate, while the employees at the sales location could still be paid based on commission.


Or they could operate like the local Verizon store in my area. In thier store, they have 2 lines of people that are dedicated in-store CS/troublshooting reps, and the other half of the store is dedicated to sales. There is one greeter who stands at the front door and directs customers to the proper line. It's a really good system.


Posted by: Isriam

Quote:
Originally Posted by JP Whoregan
If they didn't hinge our paychecks on sales, then yes, the brick and mortar would be one in the same with CS/internet. But as long as my paycheck depends on sales, customer service can clean up thier own messes. I'm busy cleaning up my own.


Which is exactly why you shouldn't be in sales or working for AT&T.

My point here isn't about semantics of how AT&T does business and treats its sales employee's. The obvious issue here is an EMPLOYEE refused to help a CUSTOMER.

Do you know that in Operations, if we EVER refused to look at a customer issue because of someone else in the company, we'd be fired? Sir you're dropping calls? Well how about you just go back and call Tier II and have them fix your problem, you shouldn't have been told to contact me.....


Posted by: ivwshane

Quote:
Originally Posted by JP Whoregan
Or they could operate like the local Verizon store in my area. In thier store, they have 2 lines of people that are dedicated in-store CS/troublshooting reps, and the other half of the store is dedicated to sales. There is one greeter who stands at the front door and directs customers to the proper line. It's a really good system.



In my market that is the direction they are headed.


Posted by: Telegraph

i was beginning to get worried that this would turn into another agent vs cor thread. ... kudos. what is it...a week now without one?

Wouldn't this solve everyones problem....

Simply post a sign in the store....BIG BOLD LETTERS....

"For your convenience, we will only support customers that will either generate revenue for this store or have done so previously. If you are entering the store and do not wish to pay our paycheck, kindly please leave. We will not help you"


somehow, thats what i'm gathering....and somehow that just doesn't seem right....

BUT, should you blame the agents? No, sim cards cost $$$, i remember agent cost for the sim cards usually hovered around $15....no reason to take a loss and just give out sim cards.....should you blame the cor employees? No, hardly, they have to get their $$$ and pay for their livelyhood........

Why don't you guys actually band together and blame the carrier? Even though the carrier pays for your paycheck, the carrier is the ONLY responsible party to this....

THEY created the cheap $20 go phone you can buy at national retail...THEY made the rule that you can't use those types of phones for post paid accounts...

THEY created cheaper prices on the internet which a sales staff groans about constantly because its next to impossible to sell the phones at that same price....

THEY created the ability for customers to purchase free (yet outdated...not necessarily bad phones, but outdated) or even refurbished phones and let both COR and AGENTS to fend for themselves....


blame the carrier.....

or just blame canada.....well maybe not canada


Posted by: CA

Oh yes, I agree! I can imagine the juice being passed while deciding how to make them all do battle for us.

Send a bill to corp for your wasted time giving free stuff out, but back off the customers. Ah...bad idea they will probably pay it with monopoly(pun intended) money anyway!


Posted by: cingman66

Quote:
Originally Posted by Telegraph
Wouldn't this solve everyones problem....
Simply post a sign in the store....BIG BOLD LETTERS....
"For your convenience, we will only support customers that will either generate revenue for this store or have done so previously. If you are entering the store and do not wish to pay our paycheck, kindly please leave. We will not help you"
somehow, thats what i'm gathering....and somehow that just doesn't seem right....
BUT, should you blame the agents? No, sim cards cost $$$, i remember agent cost for the sim cards usually hovered around $15....no reason to take a loss and just give out sim cards.....should you blame the cor employees? No, hardly, they have to get their $$$ and pay for their livelyhood........

Why don't you guys actually band together and blame the carrier? Even though the carrier pays for your paycheck, the carrier is the ONLY responsible party to this....

THEY created the cheap $20 go phone you can buy at national retail...THEY made the rule that you can't use those types of phones for post paid accounts...

THEY created cheaper prices on the internet which a sales staff groans about constantly because its next to impossible to sell the phones at that same price....

THEY created the ability for customers to purchase free (yet outdated...not necessarily bad phones, but outdated) or even refurbished phones and let both COR and AGENTS to fend for themselves....


blame the carrier.....

or just blame canada.....well maybe not canada


About the only thing I agree with is that we should all BLAME THE CARRIER. They are certainly the ones that have created this mess. If AT&T paid us to handle customer service (like constantly fixing CS screw-ups), then we would handle customer service. If they didn't "steal" sales opportunities from us by offering ridiculous prices on equipment via the web then we wouldn't loathe the customers that buy on-line.

Their business model is to have customers buy everything on-line or through telesales to avoid having to pay out Agent commissions and residuals, yet keep us all around to maintain a physical presence for said customers to help out with customer service. And then they want to only pay us on sales...which they are clearly taking away from us. So I totally blame the carrier...when I post a rant, 99 times out of 100 it is directed at AT&T as a company (or their *****es-the CS department)...not COR stores. I have no problem with other "sales" people going about their business as I do every day.

And for the record, we help thousands of customers every year that don't generate a single dollar for us. We provide customer service out the ying-yang all day long. But I draw the line when it comes to helping another channel steal business from me. So to put up a sign in BOLD letters stating we will not help you unless we make money off you is retarded. My sign would say "You will receive the best service through these doors--unless you bought your crap on-line."


Posted by: cingman66

Some responses to earlier posts:

To Nuku: I do NOT work for COR, so there are NO SPECIFIC TIMES when I can give out a free SIM. You make it sound like as long as there is a good reason, it's ok to give things away for free...maybe that works for COR, but not Agents. As JP stated, we only get a limited number of SIM's...I'm not giving one away for free. The customer in this case was told by me that he could buy them for $25 apiece and wait to get re-imbursed by AT&T. He chose to walk.

To Lowkey: The company DOES look bad when CS says one thing and the store says another--that's why CS should not give out false expectations. They should have told the customer that he would have to pay for the SIM's in store and then wait for re-imbursement.

To Kimball: I have almost no response to you as you are not worth my effort.

To Stlsingledad: I didn't piss the customer off as much as AT&T did by giving him false information. I was just the one to point it out to him. You know nothing about me and should refrain from passing judgment...it makes you look very small.

To JP: I love it! Throw it back in their face when they give us that crap about every customer is an opportunity. I don't need any more free upgrade/no feature customers in my store...how about you? I've been doing business this way for the past 10 years and if anyone thinks it has hurt me...well, then you don't know anything. Ask around...

To Suthurn: Thanks for noticing and remembering that I do not work for COR.

To Cingtd: Who really does that (setting up 2 separate FT hosts just to get the credit)? They would just get charged back anyway. I think you are being mighty prejudiced by assuming that the actions of a very few represent the actions of the vast majority of decent sales people in the Agent channel.

To Isriam: You are so clueless it's a battle between you and Kimball as to who is more misinformed. Customers do not pay my paycheck--my owner does. This business is a 2-way street...a quid pro quo if you will. And to say that sales is supposed to be about handling customer service from another channel shows that you probably aren't in sales...or if you are, you're not very good at it. You are very quick to say that we all lie to customers, though.

To Shane: AT&T views sales people as those who take ownership and drive business, huh? Well, that's the definition of an Agent if I ever heard one. The difference is that we (Agents) do not wish to screw ourselves in the long run by helping customers find other ways of buying phones. COR should do the same, or else your job in the future will be one of ONLY customer service. Try going from $50-75k a year to $10/hour to help set up voice mail all day.

The writing is on the wall people...AT&T wants us all OUT of this business. We need to erase that writing and show them that they absolutely NEED us...the PROFESSIONAL sales people that helped build this industry in the first place.


Posted by: NukuCamui

Quote:
To Nuku: I do NOT work for COR, so there are NO SPECIFIC TIMES when I can give out a free SIM. You make it sound like as long as there is a good reason, it's ok to give things away for free...maybe that works for COR, but not Agents. As JP stated, we only get a limited number of SIM's...I'm not giving one away for free. The customer in this case was told by me that he could buy them for $25 apiece and wait to get re-imbursed by AT&T. He chose to walk.


cingman, firstly, I was not aware you were at an agent store. If I had known, I would have made the answer a bit differently. It's hard to keep track on here who is COR and who is Agent. I think you need a nap, you're a tad on edge. The only times COR is allowed to give out a free sim is when the sim is damaged and it is not the customer's fault. If you read my reply carefully, I said that this did not seem like a time the sim would be free, even in a COR store. That is per policy for COR and CS. Agents have a different policy they have to uphold.


Posted by: JP Whoregan

Its always amazed me since I've been on this board about the "nipping" and arguing that goes on between COR sales and Agents. We are both really doing the same job, and both pretty much getting screwed in the same manner when it comes to telesales and internet sales. Everything Cingman said was right on. We need to stop cutting our own throats by mopping up messes made be telesales and internet, and "helping" those channels put us all out of jobs or turn us into hourly voicemail-activators and complaint magnets. That goes for COR reps AND agents. Let's stop the agent-COR bickering, realize that we all face the same animal, and direct our disgruntlement towards the "man" where it belongs.

The primary gripe is that this industry is competitive enough trying to compete with Verizon, Sprint, and Alltel, but now AT&T is making even more ridiculous by making us compete with OURSELVES. It's absolutely retarded.

To Isriam: It's painfully obvious that you've never had a sales job before, never had your paycheck depend on sales performance, and don't know jack about quotas and what keeps my job and what doesn't. People at the top of the white board keep thier jobs, people at the bottom don't. It's that simple. In sales, "nice guys" finish last. End O' Story. So I'm now going to excuse your persistent ignorance on this matter, and just ignore you from this point on.


Posted by: TxTwin

Quote:
Originally Posted by cingman66
The fun never stops here at AT&T. Just had a customer come in with two new phones that he "purchased" from our lovely web-site. One small problem--the SIM cards are both burned out/non-working.
What was the cause of the fried SIM cards? Customer error, or defect? If the SIM cards were bad out of the box, then the appropriate thing would be for the customer to be sent to a CORP store to get them up and running in a timely manner (sorry for those in the CORP store, but service runs hand in hand with sales job, and you do get a base pay).

If it was customer error, then they should have just sent out new SIMs. Admittedly, it would be nice if AT&T provided some sort of "service commission" for fixing issues unrelated to your store. Now, it is important to say that CS should have made it CLEAR what stores in their area were CORP stores, because it is not always easily recognizable to the average customer. I do feel the idea of having them pick up the SIM and pay for it, but getting the "credit" on their bill is a reasonable compromise that should be considered.

Quote:
He called CS and they told him to simply go to the nearest store and have them replaced/activated properly for free.
As indicated above, the customer should have been sent to the NEAREST CORP store, and the CS should have located that store and an alternate for the customer.

Quote:
I explained to the customer that it didn't matter what CS told him, I couldn't give him 2 free SIM cards. After his repeated attempts to convince me to "look up his account and read the notes," I was able to penetrate his thick skull with the realization that he was not going to get the free cards. When he finally asked 'why', I explained that if AT&T was going to take the time and MONEY to sell the phones, then they would also be responsible for taking the time to FIX their own problems. If he wished to do business IN A STORE with live human beings that could actually help him, then he was going to have to return everything to them and start over with us. Several puzzled looks later, I think he got the picture.
This sort of comment hurts not only CORP AT&T, but also makes your store look less than helpful, and if I were that customer, I would not come to your store for ANY future purchases. However, you could have explained nicely that the customer was at an AGENT store, and that therefore you did not have a supply of FREE SIM cards, and that the customer could 1) Pay for the SIM and then call CS to see if they will credit his account, or 2) direct them to the nearest CORP store.

As for those that work in the CORP store, I am sorry if you have to tend to questions about BILLS and assistance with phone issues. But, I suspect that such things are listed in your job description somewhere. If not, then AT&T surely needs to have at least 1 CS rep in each CORP store during all stated hours. That person could be paid a non-commisioned appropriate pay level, and less /no commission for any sales (maybe a small bonus for meeting a goal level of sales). Their job would be to handle all issues of this type freeing those on the lower base / higher commission scale to make their sales. It would be a good entry position to later move to sales, and if they could make small commissions making sales when the traffic is busy and the "CS" type issues are not present it would be good training to move to a full sales position.

I know it is frustrating helping customers when not making a sale, but good service during a CS call could bring in sales referals. And, not everybody buys on the Internet for ALL purchases. Just because they bought online this time, does not mean they won't be coming in to add a feature, or purchase an accessory or buy an additional phone when they want to add a line and want the phone the SAME day. Being RUDE, loses any potential of future sales from that interaction...or from friends of that person. Their father/mother might need a new phone and want to come in and touch and feel and take home the same day.

JMO -- I don't expect all of you to agree with all of it....


Posted by: JP Whoregan

You are missing the point entirely, TxTwin. I work in a CORP store myself, and I NEVER complain about BILL questions. I view every bill inquiry as an opportunity to sell a feature.

Here is what I DO have a problem with, and I've said it numerous times in this thread:

if-you-are-crafty-enough-to-buy-your-phone-off-the-internet
then-you-should-be-crafty-enough-to-learn-how-to-use-the-online-tutorials
and-the-phone's-users-manual-and-not-come-into-the-store-so-I-can-hold-the-customers-hand-for-an-hour
giving-them-a-phone-tutorial-because-this-customer-bought-from-the-internet
and-therefore-att-doesn't-pay-me-commissions.

--------------------------------------------------------
MODERATOR NOTE:
DO NOT MAKE THESE LONG NON-WRAPPING LINES AGAIN!!
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If I sell a phone to a customer, I've been known to spend damn near a HALF DAY showing them all the ins and outs of the phone, if they so desire. I give them my personal cell phone number so they can call me with questions. I've been known to answer questions for my customers who call me on my DAYS OFF while I'm watching South Park at home in my underwear, and not complain in the slightest!!! I call them after the sale to make sure they are happy with thier phone and rate plan. I literally will beat you to death with kind, helpful, customer service if you've given me the courtesy of buying from me. If you need me to "hold your hand" on your brand new cell phone, and I sold it to you, then I will go to the ends of the "wireless earth" to make you happy.

But if you need a "hand holding" and you bought off the internet to save $20, then that person kindly gets the "I'm not too familiar with that model phone, because I don't sell it in my store, you'll need to call the telephone sales rep who sold it to you" treatment. Then I move on to the next customer.

That is all. I'm not trying to be "boisterous" or anything, but I do rather well at work by using the modus operendi that I use. My numbers stay up and MY customers (the ones who buy from me) stay very happy, even after the sale. I've been in sales for a few years now, and with all due respect, I know what I'm doing when it comes to balancing what is expected of my by "the company" against what I need to do to keep my numbers in check and actually make a living.


Posted by: southwestm81

What really stumps me is why AT&T fashions its business model to operate in a way that is horrendously inefficient and irrational. I do not understand what they are hoping to accomplish by having a WEBSITE compete against corporate owned stores. The pricing should be the bloody same!!!!!!! Agents may/will have different pricing but there is a good reason for that. The COR vs. website thing as JP said it is retarded. Telesales/internet sales CANNOT demonstrate the phone to you or explain it's features to you during a live demo. They can't give a reasonable cross comparison of phones and related performance since they don't see what comes into the store everyday. They also doesn't know about the policies of dealers/indirects, so telling customers that they can get "taken care off" there because of a telesales/internet sales screw up is a huge waste of time.

I never really thought about how detrimental this was to sales consultants until I read this thread. Fortunately, the regional carrier in my neck of the woods has the same pricing on phones for both COR and Indirect. But I could only imagine the sheer rage that the crap above induces. Not everyone can be sold on "great service" if they are intoxicated with the notion of $0s. Then in store people have to waste time trying to justify why the stores prices are different than the websites.

MTS, the carrier I sell for, doesn't have telesales/internet sales to poop messes for us to clean up, but CS seems to love saying to customers "oh yeah, no problem just go to a store they can fix it"...when, for example, all the problem is is that the customer just needs their internet browser reset, or need simple help navigating their phones menus. If they are sending people to stores for stuff THEY can take care of, then what the hell are they being paid for? A referral service? There are plenty of GOOD reasons to tell a customer to go to store, but there also seems to be an influx of completely nonsensical bs reasons why customers show up at the store so I can waste my (and their) time fixing their problem, losing out on sales. I'm all for service, but for GOOD reasons. Once a day at least I get "oh yeah, they told me to come here cause you guys can take payments by cash".....NO WE CAN'T NO metro area store takes payments except for money order or cheque. Then you have to explain WHY you can't take other payment types while a data activation behind them gets snapped up!!!!!!!! Why do I need to take heat for CSs royal **** ups? They created the mess, they can fix it. I always take responsibility for my own errors, sure a few will slip through the cracks that CS will have to fix, but the ratio of them screwing up to me is about 50:1 (as an example).


Any carrier that does this "oh sign up online and we'll waive the activation fee"....up yours! This doesn't help the physical retail presence of a company get their jobs done easier, just wasting more time explaining why in store a customer HAS to pay the activation fee. It's stupid, whatever is on the corporate website should apply in the COR stores. Cause saving $18-$36 on an activation fee isnt worth the headaches of a telesales/internet based purchase **** up.
AT&T should really re think their operating method of sales channels because at this rate it is going to drive store moral into the ground, since a website seems to garner more corporate appreciation than REAL people.


Posted by: JP Whoregan

***And another angel plays a harp in heaven, as we add one more to the ranks of HoFo's "sales industry enlightened souls"*** Welcome, SouthwestM!!!!

At last, another person on this forum "gets it"!!!!!! I think this whole "common sense" thing just might be becoming infectious!!!!

As far as "why" AT&T does this, it's simple.

1. In AT&T's perfect world, all customers would buy from telesales and the internet to avoid paying salespeople commissions on contracts and features.

2. In AT&T's perfect world, they would just stop paying us commissions entirely, and just make the "CORP" reps customer service robots who don't sell much at all, but spend most of the time passing out local flyers with internet specials printed on them, troubleshooting problems, and fielding customer complaints.

3. AT&T knows that if it cuts commissions entirely, most of the sales force will just quit entirely, not wanting to take the pay cut, and they will have to hire a MASSIVE bunch of under-qualified idiots to fill all of the "suddenly open" jobs that are available. So they won't cut commissions, because ATT knows that underqualified dolts in your stores leads to more dissatisfied customers and more churn.

4. Since we have commissions, we must in turn have sales goals. Our sales goals go up every month, and the internet prices go down every month.

5. The vicious cycle lathers, rinses, and repeats ad infinitum, and the constant struggle goes on, because AT&T is stuck in this "warp" of wanting "class A" reps in the store, but they don't wanna pay "Class A" salaries to us, so the best way of lowering our pay is through the "back door" of enticing customers to buy off telesales and internet with ridiculous online pricing.


Posted by: Telegraph

so what do you want the customers to do? stop purchasing phones online or over the phone alltogether? Have you ever made a purchase online before? Sure you have... either it be through amazon.com or et al et al....this doesn't simply apply to cell phones, it applies to ALL things purchased online....don't you think its causing havok and becoming a detriment to ANY type of B&M store? (national retail or small chain?) The reason why people shop online is because of convenience...the reason people shop online is because a store simply can't be open 24 hours a day.... you ever purchase a phone at 3:00 am in the morning? doubtful.....hey, SOME people only have a certain time they can perform any type of task....what do you want them all to do?

I mean it sucks, but what can YOU do? If you deal with it, you continue to grow anger, hatred, anmiosity et al et al towards the customers .... If you don't, you'll lose your job, if you try and stop it, union won't allow it or your paycheck won't allow.....

what are you guys going to do? simply vent some more? At least do something about it.....if its that bad, fix it!


Posted by: Portables

I've seen this same situation before... Not just with CS, but reps in other stores! It's sad to say, but I have noticed a downward spiral with the amount of info BOTH the store reps and CS give the customer. If for some reason, you went and purchased something from, lets say Best Buy.com, and you were given the wrong info on the product, and you could resolve it in the local Best Buy, you would... Same thing here. I would just fix the issue... If it's a feature thing, and you can fix it, flip the dealer code so it goes to you. You are the one that adjusted it, so you should get credit for taking the time out and explaining to the customer what you did. Look at the iPhone stuff. I'm sure if there was something wrong and care took the feature, you'd flip your isht about it, but they did what they were supposed to do... You should do the same. Don't complain about it... Also, dont you have people in your store to handle that type of issue? I know in Richmond we have people in each store to do the simple things like rate plan changes, bill payments, feature add and removal, and sim card changes. Just let them handle it and go about your day. They are paid 8 bucks an hour to do CS work in store and make NO com on anything. Just go about your business and sell. IMHO....


Posted by: JP Whoregan

OMG how many times do I have to go over this....

If you buy a phone off the internet, and your phone is broken, or you have a problem, go back to the INTERNET DEALER to get it fixed.

If you buy a Panasonic TV from Etronics.com, and it's broken, you deal with the problem through Etronics.com, you don't take your broken TV to your local Best Buy to complain just because they also sell Panasonic TV's.

If you buy through a specific channel to save money, then go BACK TO THAT CHANNEL for the AFTER SALE SUPPORT. Don't come to me, and expect me to put my PAYING CUSTOMERS on the back burner, just because you bought off the internet and you have a problem.

Have I purchased off the internet? YES. NUMEROUS TIMES! As a matter of fact, the computer I'm using right now, I just bought it from CyberPowerPC.com 3 days ago. If I have problems with my new computer, I will take it up with the INTERNET CHANNEL that I bought it from, I'm not going to take it to my local dealer to crap the problem all over them just because they also "happen" to sell AMD Athlon computers and MSI motherboards.

If you buy off the internet and you have problems with your phone, I am going to kindly, with a smile, direct you to RECTIFY THE PROBLEM with the telesales or internet dealer that sold you the phone. PERIOD. I'm not trying to damn the internet altogether. But if you want personalized, face to face customer service, and you want my one-on-one time in dealing with your problem, then just do me the courtesy of buying from me. That's all I ask, and I don't think that's unreasonable.

If you found the time to drive to my store to complain about your problem, then you surely had the time to drive to my store to buy your phone in the first place, but you made a concious decision NOT to do so, either out of convenience or for the sake of saving a few dollars.

Now you either get to

A) reap the consequences of your "convenient" internet buying decision, and go back to the "convenience" of the internet or telesales to complain about your problem

or B) try to find a local rep who just might be kind enough to spend an hour fixing your problem. Just don't be surprised when "B" is harder to accomplish than you think.


Posted by: Isriam

nevermind i'm done discussing how employee's should treat customers.


Posted by: CA

Quote:
it would be nice if AT&T provided some sort of "service commission" for fixing issues unrelated to your store
Stan are you listening...all this crap could go away! Just make adjustments in base pay for corp stores to pay for their portion. And give the resellers a revenue stream while taking the load from your CS budget.

These guys would them be fighting to do the right thing.


Posted by: JP Whoregan

Stan the multi-millionaire would be quick to "point out" that an AT&T phone is an AT&T phone, and that there is no such thing that there is an "issue unrelated to my store", and that the customer is always right, and that customer service comes before my commission check, and blah blah blah blah....You'll need a parka on Satan's back porch before the day comes that management sees things the same way a company's front-line sales force sees things. I know the "company line" inside and out, and Isriam apparently worships it.

And it's easy to toss around the company line when the company line is paying for your yachts and nice cars. It's not so easy to swallow the company line when a 4-line activation goes next door to Alltel because I'm too busy showing old-folk "free phone" telesales customers how to program numbers into thier Address Book all day.


Posted by: fusiclover

Quote:
Originally Posted by stlsingledad
Nice job pissing off a customer and making the entire company look bad. I hear Sprint is hiring....we could use more people like you working for them.



Hey now, I work for Sprint. We don't want someone with THAT kind of attitude working in our stores.. You can keep him!


Posted by: cingman66

Quote:
Originally Posted by TxTwin
What was the cause of the fried SIM cards?

This sort of comment hurts not only CORP AT&T, but also makes your store look less than helpful, and if I were that customer, I would not come to your store for ANY future purchases. However, you could have explained nicely that the customer was at an AGENT store, and that therefore you did not have a supply of FREE SIM cards, and that the customer could 1) Pay for the SIM and then call CS to see if they will credit his account, or 2) direct them to the nearest CORP store.


I guess I should clear something up...what I post here as it pertains to my handling of the situation, may be a bit embellished to show my point--which is that CS should do their job properly and not send customers in to my store with certain expectations that can not be met. I did explain nicely that he could opt to pay for the SIM's and get reimbursed later by AT&T, or he could drive to the nearest COR store. If nothing else, I DO make sure customers know the difference between on-line, COR and my Agent location. I feel a certain obligation to point this out whenever I can, to assure that my good customers know the difference and will return to me if they were satisfied.

As for the notion of helping these customers out with the HOPE that they will return for future purchases...that is ridiculous. These cheap customers will always buy on-line...especially if they can get the help they NEED after the fact from a nice rep in a store. That is exactly why I do NOT help them. They need to learn NOT to buy on-line.

And the initial problem my customer had was that both SIM cards were fried due to telesales or whoever activated them putting the wrong number on both SIM's.


Posted by: TxTwin

Quote:
Originally Posted by JP Whoregan
You are missing the point entirely, TxTwin. I work in a CORP store myself, and I NEVER complain about BILL questions. I view every bill inquiry as an opportunity to sell a feature.
No JP, I am not missing the point. Again, I asked if the SIM shipped was defective. And, yes, there have been reps in these threads complaining about having to deal with BILL questions. It has been pointed out to them in the past that helping with a BILL problem gives them access to the account to try and up-sell. I am talking balance and civility...and I suspect you actually know how to do that better than your earlier posts indicate due to your frustration with the topic. [I know that sales pressure to make quota can make life difficult when having to deal with daily annoyances that pop up, but, some of the quota issues I believe are brought on by shady reps with feature flipping attitudes that hurt the honest true SALES reps that actually sell, because those actions, I believe lead AT&T to "adjust" quotas higher. Though, I could be wrong as AT&T doesn't seem to be taking strong action to STOP the feature flips and unearned commission, probably because in many cases the flipper is stealing more from a coworker than AT&T themselves (Except in cost of CS calls when they mess up by flipping grandfathered features they don't understand.)>

Quote:
Here is what I DO have a problem with, and I've said it numerous times in this thread:

if-you-are-crafty-enough-to-buy-your-phone-off-the-internet-then-you-should-be-crafty-enough-to-learn-how-to-use-the-online-tutorials-and-the-phone's-users-manual-and-not-come-into-the-store-so-I-can-hold-the-customers-hand-for-an-hour-giving-them-a-phone-tutorial-because-this-customer-bought-from-the-internet-and-therefore-att-doesn't-pay-me-commissions.

If I sell a phone to a customer, I've been known to spend damn near a HALF DAY showing them all the ins and outs of the phone, if they so desire. I give them my personal cell phone number so they can call me with questions. I've been known to answer questions for my customers who call me on my DAYS OFF while I'm watching South Park at home in my underwear, and not complain in the slightest!!! I call them after the sale to make sure they are happy with thier phone and rate plan. I literally will beat you to death with kind, helpful, customer service if you've given me the courtesy of buying from me. If you need me to "hold your hand" on your brand new cell phone, and I sold it to you, then I will go to the ends of the "wireless earth" to make you happy.
Never did i suggest hand holding on how to use the phone -- let alone for half the day. I never said anything about HAND HOLDING. I did say that if the SIM was defective out of the BOX, that it would be appropriate to assist the customer. That is good business. Besides, if it is truly not the SIM, you might be able to assist that customer in directing them to the proper return and then be able to politely "educate" them in how buying from the store with a little more cost is better value for the dollar [might you even be able to UPSELL to a better phone? or different plan?]. My big problem was the attitude of the original poster. The OPs attitude in handling a situation reflected poorly on EVERYONE to the customer.

Quote:
But if you need a "hand holding" and you bought off the internet to save $20, then that person kindly gets the "I'm not too familiar with that model phone, because I don't sell it in my store, you'll need to call the telephone sales rep who sold it to you" treatment. Then I move on to the next customer.
See, your statement above is reasonable....There was NO attack on the customer. If you knew you could give a quick assistance to get them started on exploring the phone on their own, and had a moment (I have a customer with a purchase, but if you wait a moment, I can give you a couple of tips that will help you get started -- that would be an extra nice thing--- that might stick in their memory the next time they went to purchase online).

Do YOU ever buy ANYTHING online? I bet you do. For all you know, this might have been the person's first online purchase, and you might have been able to CURE them from future online phone purchases, and earned a customer and possible future referal.

Quote:
That is all. I'm not trying to be "boisterous" or anything, but I do rather well at work by using the modus operendi that I use. My numbers stay up and MY customers (the ones who buy from me) stay very happy, even after the sale. I've been in sales for a few years now, and with all due respect, I know what I'm doing when it comes to balancing what is expected of my by "the company" against what I need to do to keep my numbers in check and actually make a living.

I suspect you are far different than the OP in the way you deal with folks -- regardless of being first time, repeat or someone that bought online and is now having a problem. My point was that by taking out anger at the company and the system on the customer, you may be hurting yourself as well. You have to be careful about judging a book by the cover, and possibly that "Internet" buy could have been converted to a future sale + referals.

I would NEVER expect you to spend hours holding someone's hand unless the store was drop dead empty and you felt you had the time. A SIM card issuance is not hours of holding hands. I can tell you that my experiences with many CORP retail reps would leave me likely to consider online experience even though I rarely purchase online. The 75% of the reps I have dealt with (north of the store I originally signed up in -- in a different county) have been undertrained and less than stellar. I think CORP should use a lower level position to be "CS" and sales "Trainee" that could take some of the burden of serving customers off the backs of the fully trained sales reps. But, that is another story.


Posted by: NXTLAU

Quote:
Originally Posted by JP Whoregan
OMG how many times do I have to go over this....

If you buy a phone off the internet, and your phone is broken, or you have a problem, go back to the INTERNET DEALER to get it fixed.

If you buy a Panasonic TV from Etronics.com, and it's broken, you deal with the problem through Etronics.com, you don't take your broken TV to your local Best Buy to complain just because they also sell Panasonic TV's.

If you buy through a specific channel to save money, then go BACK TO THAT CHANNEL for the AFTER SALE SUPPORT. Don't come to me, and expect me to put my PAYING CUSTOMERS on the back burner, just because you bought off the internet and you have a problem.

Have I purchased off the internet? YES. NUMEROUS TIMES! As a matter of fact, the computer I'm using right now, I just bought it from CyberPowerPC.com 3 days ago. If I have problems with my new computer, I will take it up with the INTERNET CHANNEL that I bought it from, I'm not going to take it to my local dealer to crap the problem all over them just because they also "happen" to sell AMD Athlon computers and MSI motherboards.

If you buy off the internet and you have problems with your phone, I am going to kindly, with a smile, direct you to RECTIFY THE PROBLEM with the telesales or internet dealer that sold you the phone. PERIOD. I'm not trying to damn the internet altogether. But if you want personalized, face to face customer service, and you want my one-on-one time in dealing with your problem, then just do me the courtesy of buying from me. That's all I ask, and I don't think that's unreasonable.

If you found the time to drive to my store to complain about your problem, then you surely had the time to drive to my store to buy your phone in the first place, but you made a concious decision NOT to do so, either out of convenience or for the sake of saving a few dollars.

Now you either get to

A) reap the consequences of your "convenient" internet buying decision, and go back to the "convenience" of the internet or telesales to complain about your problem

or B) try to find a local rep who just might be kind enough to spend an hour fixing your problem. Just don't be surprised when "B" is harder to accomplish than you think.


AMEN!!! I don't work for AT&T, but I do work for Sprint and deal with the same bs all the time. If you want my good service, buy from me, don't come in here wasting my time b/c you don't want to read the instruction manual. A few months ago, cs was giving out hybrid phones for free...just calling nextel customers and giving them out like candy, when in my store they were at least $80 with a 2 year contract. We would get seriously 20 people a day want us to activate the phone or show them how to use it. (we didn't get credit for activating them either) And to make it worse while these free customers are in there, they will tell everybody in there about how they got it for free from cs! And not to mention that cs is full of idiots who set unrealistic expectations for the phones. I've always said the advantages of buying a phone in store outweigh the couple of dollars you will save by going through cs or online. The sad thing is that it won't change. As time goes by more and more people will go the online route b/c more and more people are internet savvy and "trust" the internet where alot of older people don't.


Posted by: CA

I'm missing something also. Do customers actually spend a half of their day in any store...letting alone a tape(Phone) store? Is there any chance that what was meant is hating customers for ordering online, using the .pdf's and hofo for questions(like I do) or doing a CS on hook call(avoiding hold times)?

Then I would ask do any of you use full service brokers when buying a home, because if you do that will cost you large for decades. And when buying a car do you go for their financing?

Yes times are changing and the telco's know it, how long has it been since they paid reps to sell landlines? Phones? Accessories? Legislation is catching on to abuse o-billing-o-phone scams so it's something all have to embrace at some time.


Posted by: biofilter69

i have never charged anyone for a sime card that is a customer with a problem. I think that this whole thread is horrible, att is a seamless company why do you feel that your some how above that. please get over yourself.


Posted by: JP Whoregan

Quote:
Originally Posted by biofilter69
i have never charged anyone for a sime card that is a customer with a problem. I think that this whole thread is horrible, att is a seamless company why do you feel that your some how above that. please get over yourself.


Have you even read and comprehended half of this thread? It's not "seamless" when the company is INCONSISTENT with its pricing from internet to CORP store. When I have to compete AGAINST my OWN company's website because the pricing is lower on the internet, please tell me exactly how that is "seamless".

Our job is challenging enough trying to sell the AT&T Advantage over Verizon, Sprint Nextel, and Alltel, but now I ALSO have to try to convince a customer to buy from me when he/she see's nothing but $0 and "FREE" all over the internet on phones that I can't do for 'FREE' in the store without risking being fired or disciplined for unauthorized discounts.

Please show me how that is "seamless".


Posted by: jettaguy87

I work for a very well respected authorized agent in our area and this thread has me torn. The only thing I can say for certain is that this should be sent to AT&T big wigs to show them that they are only hurting their public image by splitting their employees and affiliates right down the middle in a sales death match where the customers are the ones that suffer. We get this situation all of the time (free SIM card) and we politely explain that we are not the store that was referenced by the customer service representative. The SIM cards are part of our inventory and while one comes with every phone the extras have to be purchased. I will make exceptions for my own customer base and help them out if it is an obvious defect in the SIM (not a PUK debacle) but bottom line is that they are inventoried items. Anyway, I just wanted to chime in from an authorized agent point of view and btw, corporate stores are not innocent in passing the buck either, everyone does it. The closest corporate store loves sending customers to our store to get their phones unlocked, gotta love it.

Mike


Posted by: TxTwin

Quote:
Originally Posted by JP Whoregan
OMG how many times do I have to go over this....

If you buy a phone off the internet, and your phone is broken, or you have a problem, go back to the INTERNET DEALER to get it fixed.

If you buy a Panasonic TV from Etronics.com, and it's broken, you deal with the problem through Etronics.com, you don't take your broken TV to your local Best Buy to complain just because they also sell Panasonic TV's.
This one doesn't fly....if they bought from Etronics why would they go to BEST BUY! Not Apples (poor choice of words) to Apples.

Quote:
If you buy through a specific channel to save money, then go BACK TO THAT CHANNEL for the AFTER SALE SUPPORT. Don't come to me, and expect me to put my PAYING CUSTOMERS on the back burner, just because you bought off the internet and you have a problem.

I believe the person had called CS and was TOLD to go to the store -- The OP should not have taken it out on the CUSTOMER -- but on CS for sending them to a store. And, they should have to wait their "turn". I agree that things could be handled better by all avenues, but still, YOU are setting customer expectations -- and when you chose to treat them RUDELY as in the OP's example/wording, you lose any chance to convert that customer to a future paying customer or get any referals. [Gee, I ordered my phone online and it didn't work, but the nice rep at the store helped me out. If I had gone to the store in the first place, I might have paid a little more, but would have gotten my phone the same day with the ability to test it before I left the store --- so, xxxxx, I recommend you go see JP at XYZ location and tell hmi I sent you. It won't cost you that much more when you consider the convenience of getting the phone and having everything checked out in person.]


Quote:
Have I purchased off the internet? YES. NUMEROUS TIMES! As a matter of fact, the computer I'm using right now, I just bought it from CyberPowerPC.com 3 days ago. If I have problems with my new computer, I will take it up with the INTERNET CHANNEL that I bought it from, I'm not going to take it to my local dealer to crap the problem all over them just because they also "happen" to sell AMD Athlon computers and MSI motherboards.
The person was TOLD by CS to go to the STORE. The problem is an INTERNAL problem to be resolved INTERNALLY at AT&T -- express your concern to your Union Rep if you are in a UNION store -- or other means of offering input. Don't take it out on the customer if the customer was sent by your company to your store....you just completely cut off any future sales at your location by being rude.

Quote:
If you buy off the internet and you have problems with your phone, I am going to kindly, with a smile, direct you to RECTIFY THE PROBLEM with the telesales or internet dealer that sold you the phone. PERIOD. I'm not trying to damn the internet altogether. But if you want personalized, face to face customer service, and you want my one-on-one time in dealing with your problem, then just do me the courtesy of buying from me. That's all I ask, and I don't think that's unreasonable.
When CS has noted the account, please make sure you also take time to get the account access and annotate that you refused the service because it was an INTERNET sale and therefore not your responsibility. Again, I don't expect you to do 1/2 training on a phone -- I wouldn't expect that if I BOUGHT the phone from you.

Quote:
If you found the time to drive to my store to complain about your problem, then you surely had the time to drive to my store to buy your phone in the first place, but you made a concious decision NOT to do so, either out of convenience or for the sake of saving a few dollars.
Again, the OP indicated that the customer was sent to the store for the SIM and apparently annotated the account. So, CS has caused this person to waste more time and gas to get to your store. How long does it take to issue a SIM?


Quote:
Now you either get to

A) reap the consequences of your "convenient" internet buying decision, and go back to the "convenience" of the internet or telesales to complain about your problem

or B) try to find a local rep who just might be kind enough to spend an hour fixing your problem. Just don't be surprised when "B" is harder to accomplish than you think.


After experiencing your attitude -- I would never buy anything at your store --- even if I needed an immediate replacement phone or new line for my kid before sending them off on a cross country trip. You would have lost any future sales, and any friends sales. Possibly even driving some customers to a competitor. A display of rudeness with other customers in the store may even cost you a PAYING customer that didn't konw the full story but heard your "go get lost" type comments.

JMO. But, you will do what you do.


Posted by: biofilter69

Well in opus there is a little thing called e-store price matching and selling features to give your 20$ discount you might want to talk to your manager if your really loosing that many sales over the e-store price. more than half the people dont look at the estore price and most of the time it is a 20$ difference so get them to add a texting and it is at the e store price. You need to stop looking for reasons to complain and build the value of getting a phone today and having some one to show you how the phone works when you get it and to assure your customer that your the only rep they need to talk to. Most of my customers havnt had a problem paying the higher price and if they do get your manager involved. He has quotas too just remember that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JP Whoregan
Have you even read and comprehended half of this thread? It's not "seamless" when the company is INCONSISTENT with its pricing from internet to CORP store. When I have to compete AGAINST my OWN company's website because the pricing is lower on the internet, please tell me exactly how that is "seamless".

Our job is challenging enough trying to sell the AT&T Advantage over Verizon, Sprint Nextel, and Alltel, but now I ALSO have to try to convince a customer to buy from me when he/she see's nothing but $0 and "FREE" all over the internet on phones that I can't do for 'FREE' in the store without risking being fired or disciplined for unauthorized discounts.

Please show me how that is "seamless".



Posted by: biofilter69

If your talking about brand unlocking in my district you cant unlock phones at a COR at all and CS will only unlock it if they feel it is for legit reasons. We send customers to a local shop that unlocks phone for 20$ a pop

Quote:
Originally Posted by jettaguy87
I work for a very well respected authorized agent in our area and this thread has me torn. The only thing I can say for certain is that this should be sent to AT&T big wigs to show them that they are only hurting their public image by splitting their employees and affiliates right down the middle in a sales death match where the customers are the ones that suffer. We get this situation all of the time (free SIM card) and we politely explain that we are not the store that was referenced by the customer service representative. The SIM cards are part of our inventory and while one comes with every phone the extras have to be purchased. I will make exceptions for my own customer base and help them out if it is an obvious defect in the SIM (not a PUK debacle) but bottom line is that they are inventoried items. Anyway, I just wanted to chime in from an authorized agent point of view and btw, corporate stores are not innocent in passing the buck either, everyone does it. The closest corporate store loves sending customers to our store to get their phones unlocked, gotta love it.

Mike



Posted by: CA

Quote:
Originally Posted by TxTwin
This one doesn't fly....if they bought from Etronics why would they go to BEST BUY! Not Apples (poor choice of words) to Apples.


I believe the person had called CS and was TOLD to go to the store -- The OP should not have taken it out on the CUSTOMER -- but on CS for sending them to a store. And, they should have to wait their "turn". I agree that things could be handled better by all avenues, but still, YOU are setting customer expectations -- and when you chose to treat them RUDELY as in the OP's example/wording, you lose any chance to convert that customer to a future paying customer or get any referals. [Gee, I ordered my phone online and it didn't work, but the nice rep at the store helped me out. If I had gone to the store in the first place, I might have paid a little more, but would have gotten my phone the same day with the ability to test it before I left the store --- so, xxxxx, I recommend you go see JP at XYZ location and tell hmi I sent you. It won't cost you that much more when you consider the convenience of getting the phone and having everything checked out in person.]


The person was TOLD by CS to go to the STORE. The problem is an INTERNAL problem to be resolved INTERNALLY at AT&T -- express your concern to your Union Rep if you are in a UNION store -- or other means of offering input. Don't take it out on the customer if the customer was sent by your company to your store....you just completely cut off any future sales at your location by being rude.

When CS has noted the account, please make sure you also take time to get the account access and annotate that you refused the service because it was an INTERNET sale and therefore not your responsibility. Again, I don't expect you to do 1/2 training on a phone -- I wouldn't expect that if I BOUGHT the phone from you.

Again, the OP indicated that the customer was sent to the store for the SIM and apparently annotated the account. So, CS has caused this person to waste more time and gas to get to your store. How long does it take to issue a SIM?




After experiencing your attitude -- I would never buy anything at your store --- even if I needed an immediate replacement phone or new line for my kid before sending them off on a cross country trip. You would have lost any future sales, and any friends sales. Possibly even driving some customers to a competitor. A display of rudeness with other customers in the store may even cost you a PAYING customer that didn't know the full story but heard your "go get lost" type comments.

JMO. But, you will do what you do.
Jeepers, his attitude is his attitude right or wrong, I say just move on to the next store and call it a day.

One time I got a bad SIM and when I called CS they said to go to a Cingular store, but I wasn't having it. I asked her to call a store ahead so that I was sure the drive would be worth my time. The funny part the first 10 or so stores she called didn't answer the call so I had to insist some more. We were then 40 miles away before I asked about the store in the local mall and they answered and all was well. That is until I got to the mall. The only Cingular store there said they were a Corp store until I asked to speak with the one that answered and said he had a SIM but some checking machine was broke(yes grade school), then they told me they weren't corp at all I had to go to the ATT store(it was still ATT when Cingular was the new name) so I went walking to the other end and he was out to lunch...then I noticed someone calling the guy next to him by the name I was after. I tortured the guy and asked him every question I could think of for over a half an hour.

After dealing with CS then the reseller then the pimple I knew this was a cowboy's business and it hasn't changed. I think the honest reps know it and some of the honest ones just get caught up in the mix so once again it brings us back to Stan!


Posted by: JP Whoregan

Yes, Mr. Sonix, I do believe we can agree that we have reached "Condition Merry-Go-Round" on this thread at this point.


Posted by: Wrangler3383

So can I close it without people getting upset? Think we have beaten this to death eh?


Posted by: JP Whoregan

no opposition here. Topic has been explored fully.


Posted by: Wrangler3383

Quote:
Originally Posted by JP Whoregan
no opposition here. Topic has been explored fully.


Agreed... Closed




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