vB Easy Archive - 3G vs EDGE - signal strength in buildings

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3G vs EDGE - signal strength in buildings
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Posted by: LOMLFOML

My question has to do with the penetration of a signal into a building. If I get a certain level of EDGE signal inside a particular building, is there any likelihood that a 3g signal will be better? I realize that AT&T Edge may well be better than TMo Edge at point 'a'. Regardless of that, to compare apples to the proverbial apples, assuming the same carrier (AT&T), would 3g penetrate better than Edge.
Thank you!

Posted by: ~~Tito~~

Well, ask someone who works in an office, that has edge or 3G

. I think they are both at the same level of voltage just different frequencies. I think they would both work at the same level. I have had the same signal strength in the Wynn (I live in Las Vegas and I kinda go into casinos all the time.) So there should be no differences unless the tower is far away.

Posted by: aznjunkie

In my opinion I think they are about the same. I have a 3G phone (AT&T 8525) and my friend has an EDGE phone (SE W810) and we get the same coverage and reception. We both work in a hospital and we don’t have any signal issues. We use our personal phone since our work phones (Sprint and Nextel) only gets signal in parts of the Hospital.

Posted by: LOMLFOML

I was really hoping 3g signals would get thru better. That would be my excuse for getting a new toy (and switching to AT&T). Well, how about the toys themselves? Think of radio/receiver specs. The FM sensitivity and reception would vary quite a bit. What Smartphone or PPC or PDA specification would mean that one device had better 3g reception than another? Does anyone know? Or have anecdotes on one mfgr vs another?
Thank you!

Posted by: dcdttu

Here's my two schools of thought:

1. US 3G on Cingular runs on 1900mhz right now, rather than Cingular's 850mhz band. Lower frequencies get better penetration into structures, it's basic physics. That said and all things equal, a Cingular GSM/EDGE signal should penetrate better.

2. Things aren't equal. 3G CDMA tends to remain clear and usable at very low signal strengths, so long as you remain above its threshold of interference. GSM signals get bad when weak, including data.

In my experience, when you have very little 3G signal, your calls are clear. When you have very little or varying 2G signal, the results are less.

When 3G rolls over to 850, or the new 700mhz frequencies are used, you'll see great building penetration. I often wonder how well Europe's 3G does, being so high up in frequency (2100mhz). But, they tend to do it well over there, so maybe it's great....

Conclustion: Get a phone that handles signals well: Nokia, Moto (ew!), or a 3G Sony (soon to come). If it makes you feel better, Cingular usually has much better reception in either 2G or 3G than my friends get with T-Mobile where I live (Texas). T-Mobile is all 1900mhz right now, soon to add 1700mhz I believe. Cingular's 850mhz is still better in theory.* If we could just get a service with unlocked phones, T-Mobile's prices and Customer Service, with Cingular's 3G with Verizon's coverage... That would be awesome. I also want a golden toilet and foot massages at work....

*Actual results may vary. Check your provider's coverage in your area before agreeing....

Posted by: LOMLFOML

HI - thank you for all that. A couple clarifications, please?
1. when you say Cingular, you mean AT&T too? I'm not near TX and don't know if there might be separation there, in some way.

2. when I refer to 3G, I only mean for data download. (I was planning to swallow my embarrassment sometime at asking such a stupid question and ask whether 'regular' (no browser) phones with 3g capability use the 3g for voice calls, or is it basically wasted. ) So given I'm talking about data, is there any difference in your reply? Thank you!

Posted by: LOMLFOML

I think maybe I should get the rep at the AT&T store to come over to the building in question and try a 3g smartphone there.

This would be easier than signing up, finding I have no better signal or speed than Edge, and cancelling.

Posted by: player911

The way I see it is that the signal strength is linear.

GPRS --- EDGE --- 3G
-----> -----> ----->

Think of it as 1 bar 3G = EDGE + 1
Full 3G = EDGE + 4 bars.

When your in a low 3G area, you'll toggle between full Edge and low 3G.

And to give some personal experience. I have a 3G blackjack and I work in the lower levels of an office building. We have to repeat Nextel signal so our work phones can operate. Nothing works down here, or it used not to.

I still don't have enough signal to really make a call, but I do get enough service to text message and receive Voice Mail notifications. Sure its not 3G signal, but its the only phone that can get AT&T down here.

Its a Samsung Blackjack.

I think 3G phones have a stronger antenna which is why 3G phones are considered "battery hogs".

Posted by: Foxbat121

Quote:

Originally Posted by player911

The way I see it is that the signal strength is linear.

GPRS --- EDGE --- 3G
-----> -----> ----->

Think of it as 1 bar 3G = EDGE + 1
Full 3G = EDGE + 4 bars.

That's not really true. What you observed is simply the squence of operation mode BlackJack is programed to do. That is BlackJack will try to hold on to 3G first, then EDGE then GPRS. You can change this behavior in the hidden Admin tools.

3G WCDMA signal and EDGE/GPRS are from two different transmitters FWIK. There are no direct relationship between these two as far signal strength goes. Of course, EDGE/GPRS is widely deployed over many years compared to new 3G deployment. You're likely to see 3G signal fluctuate more than EDGE/GPRS.

Posted by: gacajun

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foxbat121

Can you please tell me how to access the Admin tools on my Blackjack, I don't recall seeing that before. TIA

Posted by: Foxbat121

There are two ways to access Admin tools
(1) dial a special number which I don't remember
(2) Find the admin tool exe file under Windows folder of your phone.

You can search BlackJack related threads for more information.

Posted by: dcdttu

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOMLFOML

HI - thank you for all that. A couple clarifications, please?
1. when you say Cingular, you mean AT&T too? I'm not near TX and don't know if there might be separation there, in some way.

2. when I refer to 3G, I only mean for data download. (I was planning to swallow my embarrassment sometime at asking such a stupid question and ask whether 'regular' (no browser) phones with 3g capability use the 3g for voice calls, or is it basically wasted. ) So given I'm talking about data, is there any difference in your reply? Thank you!

Cingular is AT&T. They're based in San Antonio, so I'd hope that it is especially true here in TX! Most of Texas runs on a predominately 850mhz system, except 3G of course...

3G is used for voice and data. 3G also handles voice better than 2G technologies do (TDMA). Call volume and signal quality are usually better with 3G (CDMA). Signal loss hurts voice the same as it does data, so the results are the same...

Posted by: aznjunkie

First make sure you do have 3G coverage in your city. It won't make a difference if you don't have that service. When I'm at work I don't use data on my phone. I use my works connection since it's way faster than any phone connection.

Today while I was working around the hospital I notice my phone would use EDGE in areas that my Nextel/Sprint phone would lose signal..... So I guess EDGE does penetrate better than 3G. I’m not a phone expert so more testing needs to be done. But the way I see it you’re better off get a 3G phone. All 3G phones can go between EDGE and 3G so you can’t go wrong.

As for AT&T service being better. It really depends your area. All carriers have good and bad service areas. Just remember you can "try out" AT&T for 30 days. You can cancel within 30 days and you only pay for the service you use and you won't be charged a ETF.

Posted by: taveanator

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foxbat121

There are two ways to access Admin tools
(1) dial a special number which I don't remember

*#1546792*#

I have that memorized because I always lock my BJ to 3G instead of EDGE in a 3G area to save battery life.

I personally think 3G far better reception but worse penetration in buildings then EDGE. No scientific proof - just that I was sick of the phone hunting for EDGE when the 3G signal dropped in an elevator thus crushing my battery life.

Posted by: jgrnt1

With my 8525, Edge definitely penetrates better, whether I am at the office, or at home. As an example, my house is in a 3G coverage area. It, unfortunately, has an aluminum roof. Outside, I get 3G with 4 bars. Inside, I cannot get a 3G signal, but still get Edge with 2 bars.

Posted by: LOMLFOML

I want to thank all of you for your reports; sure doesn't look good for my little 3G speed-up project. Jgrnt1 seems to be in the same situation I would be, though I believe the building roof in my case is steel. It's a commercial establishment. How about auxiliary antennas? Is there anything like that out there?

Posted by: jgrnt1

There are signal boosters, but they are not cheap. Here's an example:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...rd_i=B000E14G7S

I'm not an expert, but I believe these are frequency specific, so you would need to cover the bands your phone is receiving at the location.

Posted by: cerebuspu

i lose 3G at work and i get a fluctuating edge signal. its bad enoguh that i cant make any calls over 10mins long on the cell phone. been thinking about a signal booster for $200 to $300 that will work in the car too.

Posted by: dcdttu

The reason people switch to EDGE from 3G in low-signal areas is usually because currently Cingular's 3G is 1900mhz only, whereas 2G and EDGE have the option of running on 850 usually.

Like your neighbor's subwoofer, lower frequencies penetrate buildings and walls easier. 850 (EDGE) trumps 1900 (3G). To my knowledge, that is why...

Posted by: Surrea|

Wow, this thread has so much misinformation it's amazing...

Cingular/at&t 3g runs on 1900 and 850mhz (pls correct me if i am wrong).
As has been mentioned by a couple people, the lower the signal frequency the better the building penetration is (but the lower the bandwidth, but that's a completely different story). In the rogers forum there is a great thread about the 850 band, and basically, yes, it is super fantastic.

The question originally asked really has no answer. Does 3g have better reception, or does edge? There are many many factors which would determine that. The one factor which shouldn't make a difference in this case is the signal frequency, as both edge and 3g run on 850, which should have the best building penetration.

Factors which you need to consider are:
The phone being used, specifically its antenna, transmitter strength and receive sensitivity. You need to factor that in for both edge and 3g as they use seperate transmitters in a phone.

Cell company's equipment. 3g is quite new compared to edge, so that could mean it has the latest and greatest equipment, or it could mean that the equipment isn't mature yet and still has lots of issues. I have no idea which is true.

Your location, specifically which cell tower you are connected to. Your location itself should affect edge and 3g equally, but the tower you are connected to may not have any 3g equipment, or the equipment on it might have a higher transmit power for say edge but not 3g.

The signal processing stuff. All cell phone signals are encoding using pretty trixy technology, and the main difference between edge and 3g is how the signal is encoded. I really don't know how it works, and I am sure in this aspect there is a difference, but someone who has studied this stuff probably does.

In any case, I think the only way to find this out is to give it a try and see what happens where you are.

Posted by: Foxbat121

Quote:

Originally Posted by Surrea|

Cingular/at&t 3g runs on 1900 and 850mhz (pls correct me if i am wrong).

You're correct. But remember, depending on your location, Cingular does not necessary serve both bands in the same place.

Posted by: dcdttu

To my knowledge, as mentioned before, Cingular 3G does not run on 850mhz at this time. Currently TDMA and 2G/EDGE take up all of that bandwidth, leaving 1900mhz the only 3G option. When analog/TDMA are eliminated, Cingular will push 3G into the 1900mhz band.

This explains the major disparity between 3G and 2G for Cingular.

Of course your phone matters, but that didn't seem to be the topic of this thread. a V3xx will retain any signal better than a LG CU500, but both will go to 850mhz eventually as the signal lessens.

Also, keep in mind that 1900 and 850 and 2G and 3G may very well be running on different towers. You may switch between them simply because you're to far from the other.