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VERIZON WIRELESS RANT THREAD

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Posted by: J3ff

Ok since that other thread is being taken over lets just rant here.

I aggree with CCCC, Verizon needs to do something to become maybe a little more appealing?

First-
Lets talk about text messaging. How much does this really cost them ? If anyone knows, please do tell us. I can't imagine it costs them much at all. In My Oppinon, it's great to have a text message capable phone, HOWEVER, when it costs me 10 cents to send ONE message, and 2 to recieve it. I NEVER USE IT! And I NEVER WILL! So that makes me pretty unsatisfied with verizon and text messages. I mean seriously, would it really be that hard for them to just let us have 200 free messages included in the plan, or HMMM EVEN UNLIMITED.... comon Verizon, it doesnt cost any to send threw your website, so we know we are getting ripped off on that.

On a side note, when I signed up with cingular or so long ago, they gave me free text messages, it was great. So fun, just saying hi to everyone all day when u were bored. However paying for it is just BS

Second-
Why in the world can't we have the old 8pm start time for nights.... People on the ATT in canada are complaining because theirs doesnt start till 7! WTF VERIZON give us our 8pm nights back... How much money would you really loose? I'm sure if it was changed to 8pm, people would love to brag about it and many would join verizon..

Third and last-
I dont understand why people say Verizon has not so cool phones because they test them longer. Is that why the A500 for sprint was out a year ago? I have an a530 and my friend's a500 is almost EXACTLY the same.... So sprint didnt test it huh? Well if you go look at the Samsung section or the sprint or ANY OTHER provider who doesnt "test" their phones as long as verizon does, do you see complaints about them? I think not!...... I mean have any of your (all of you) friends ever complained that a T-Mobile phone has bugs? To me it looks like the only ones that complain are about service and singnal. ALSO the claim to fame that Verizon doesnt have new stuff because they go threw such big tests, WELL WHAT ABOUT THE T720! AND! If there is such a bug with the a530, if it went through what 5 MONTHS of testing why in the FREAKIN WORLD would it take till the DAY OF RELEASE for them to find this bug.

So TO ANYONE WHO SAYS THEY TEST THEIR PHONES much more than other carriers PROVE IT and then I will nicely accept that fact.

Anyway Continue the rant please! and maybe just maybe sumone in the upper levels of verizon might take a hint.

If I had one day in that CEO chair, boy things would be different





Posted by: Cioni2k

Nice rant. I agree with everything you said..

Except partly on the txt messages. I pay 2.99 a month right now and until June, I have unlimited. Thats not too high of a price.


Posted by: J3ff

any price for something as simple as a text message IMO is too high of a price...


Posted by: ZildjianB

You make some good points. I'd be happy just receiving text messages for free. $0.02 per received text message is just an annoyance.


Posted by: frail

For all intensive purposes this thread belongs in the Provider Rants Forum. However, I'll allow it to continue here as long as it doesn't get out of hand and as long as there aren't any flame wars or inappropriate language. Otherwise it'll be moved to the proper forum.


Posted by: psycho-

Text msg. is the new form of revenue. The problem is that overcompetition forced per min. revenues so low that voice service is nearly unprofitable....just look at these companies financials.

In any case, they need revenue, and mobile data is one way they can start recovering all their losses.


Posted by: ZildjianB

Quote:
Originally posted by psycho-
Text msg. is the new form of revenue. The problem is that overcompetition forced per min. revenues so low that voice service is nearly unprofitable....just look at these companies financials.

In any case, they need revenue, and mobile data is one way they can start recovering all their losses.

The wonderous Get It Now is their latest source of revenue . I want to receive free text messages!!


Posted by: pattwak

That's what I love about my t-mo account... free incoming, I pay for my outgoing... perfect system... mainly be cause I use ALOT of text messaging and usually don't pay attention to how many I've use, and on many months bills have payed the overages... ATT does free incoming also, but you pay for outgoing. It's not a bad system but I think we need to face facts that Verizon is a very greedy company and they seem not to listen to those who complain about what they charge and when they charge it. When you're the biggest and best out there I guess they feel they don't really need to listen either. They'll have their wake up call one of these days.


Posted by: CCCC

Quote:
Originally posted by praetorian
For all intensive purposes this thread belongs in the Provider Rants Forum. However, I'll allow it to continue here as long as it doesn't get out of hand and as long as CCCC or anyone else doesn't get offended by it. Otherwise, it'll be moved to the proper forum.


Praetorian, Hey thanks I love it, keep it, make it a sticky. The Verizon page needs a good b*tch thread and I'm happy to be the sqeaky wheel. If Verizon cares they can take note, if not then VZN will see what happens when customers loose interest. Like I've said all along, customers need to open their eye's and see whats really going on. If it's good for you great, but let others say their sh*t, debate if you want, but don't start reciting the standard VZN BS lines back here. Think we've all heard them and are sick of VZN's excuses.
Let me end by saying Bell Atlantic's biggest problem is Verizon. BA was a much better company back then. Change is good, but only when it's for the better. Making customers number one is being better and then no service provider could beat them, but VZN is going the other direction.


Posted by: J3ff

What we need is the PERSONAL email for the top verizon guys, Now who wants to do that? Comon Vyruz U say you have all this inside stuff, no back it up get us sum email addresses

Lata


Posted by: frail

Quote:
Originally posted by CCCC
Praetorian, Hey thanks I love it, keep it, make it a sticky. The Verizon page needs a good ***** thread and I'm happy to be the sqeaky wheel. If Verizon cares they can take note, if not then VZN will see what happens when customers loose interest. Like I've said all along, customers need to open their eye's and see whats really going on. If it's good for you great, but let others say their ****, debate if you want, but don't start reciting the standard VZN BS lines back here. Think we've all heard them and are sick of VZN's excuses.
Let me end by saying Bell Atlantic's biggest problem is Verizon. BA was a much better company back then. Change is good, but only when it's for the better. Making customers number one is being better and then no service provider could beat them, but VZN is going the other direction.



I'll keep this thread open as long as everyone keeps it clean. Meaning, no flame wars or personal attacks. Remember, we're ranting about Verizon Wireless here, not about each other. And please keep the language clean. That includes trying to circumvent the censoring system by replacing key letters with similar looking letters and/or symbols. **** or f*ck are examples. Remember the rules, if it can be said on broadcast TV it can be said here, so please keep it down to a dull roar. Offending posts will either be edited or removed. If things get too out of hand this thread will be closed and rants will have to be posted to the actual Provider Rants Forum.

Please post your rants only to this thread.


Posted by: scottb

I agree that text messaging is a problem with VZW (not so much the price, mine are free). My problem is getting messages through in a timely manner. Sometimes they are late and sometimes they never get to the recipient.


Posted by: David P. Dobson

I want VZW to stop acting as if they can't keep a count of msgs sent/received. If they can't, how do they know when you've gone over the allotment of msgs? I want to at least be able to call in and ask for a tally of msgs, just as you can now get minutes used. Oh, and I want them to be more timely and current with the same. Updates on minutes every 24-48 hours? Get real VZW!
Verizon , VZW you are


Posted by: J3ff

HOW DO U GET MESSAGES FOR FREE!


Posted by: David P. Dobson

The truth is that msgs cost virtually NOTHING to transmit(digital). VZW is going to the if it doesn't loosen up. If the competition keeps going, VZW can some of their business goodbye when # portability kicks in. Am I , no. Am I , Absolutely! Am I ? To the max! Wake up VZW! If you don't you'll find yourself in the game, or worse down the ! It's to wake up and smell the ! Listen to the everyone is playing. You're in a tight race and it's going to be a finish! All the is a hugh clue. The are on, is anyone home? DPD


Posted by: Cioni2k

Thats a lot of 's


Posted by: Cioni2k

My take on Verizon...

They need to stop LIMITING US! GAGIN wouldnt be here if we had newer software for browsers and used Java. Im sick of their monopoly.

Next year when my contract is up, if they dont shape up, I might sacrifice service and get what I want from T-mobile


Posted by: ZildjianB

Quote:
Originally posted by Cioni2k
Thats a lot of 's

Yes, this is definitely a talent of David's!! I told him he should look into publishing a book!! LOL


Posted by: CCCC

Quote:
Originally posted by Cioni2k
Next year when my contract is up, if they dont shape up, I might sacrifice service and get what I want from T-mobile


Might do that myself when Num Port. happens in November.


Posted by: SirTristan

Will since everyone else is ranting...I'll throw in my two cents worth as well!

I'm not going to complain about the new all digital AC plan, or the cost of text messages. I agree that incoming messages should be free and I also think that we should pay a lower cost for a reduced AC plan....BUT I'll let all that slide.

BUT WHAT REALLY GETS ME IS HOW @#$#@ SLOW THEY ARE TO ROLL OUT NEW PHONES!!! And when I say phones, I mean good, feature rich phones.

O.K....so they have a great 1x network in most places, but they have failed to deliever a true work horse 1x color phone. The Moto T720 is a joke. The LG VX4400...tried it and returned it within 5 days. I would actually use (and gladly pay for) the 1x data services if I could get a decent phone.

Please do not misunderstand my rant...I truly believe Verizon has the best network of any carrier and I will likely remain a customer for years. I just get sick of hearing "we take our time rolling out new equipment because we like to completely test it so as to release it bug free". Bug free? What the #%#$% happened to with the T720? The VX4400 is on its third firmware update and its only been out about three months. I know both phones have loyal users, but since I'm paying FULL retail for these, they had better work flawlessly.

Next to bat...Verizon with the Samsung a530 and what happens? The darn thing gets pulled the day before its released! What's next? I have heard that the Samsung i700 is suppose to out in April 28th, but I'm not holding my breath. CS has no idea when this phone is going to be released and can't even give me a price.

I have been so beaten down by Verizon's lack of good phones that Sprint is starting to look attractive. Now I know that Sprint users have more than their share of problems. But at least it doesn't take Sprint 9 months to deliver a phone after the FCC approves it (...only takes them 1-2 months max).

I really want to stay with Verizon...I really do, but they sure are making it tough for me. For now, I will stick with my v60i, which of all the phones Verizon offers, still seems to be the best phone for calls and reception. Unfortunately, its doesn't support 1x. I know, I know, the v60x is coming...but will it be before the sun expands and destroys the earth? That gives Verizon a few billion years...maybe if they really hurry, they will just release it the day before.

I'm done. I've spoken, and in a forum that I have grown to respect over the months. I feel better.


Posted by: ZildjianB

Great rant!! You make a lot of good points!


Posted by: psycho-

pamela.slama@verizonwireless.com

Yes..I posted it.

Assistent to the head of VZW west in Irvine here.


Posted by: CCCC

Quote:
Originally posted by psycho-
-----------@verizonwireless.com

Yes..I posted it.

Assistent to the head of VZW west in Irvine here.


Is she cool with that?????even though it is her job. Feel kinda bad unsolis. emails.

Think that all the service providers have people that do internet research for them? not that it seems to do any good.


Posted by: pattwak

Verizon Wireless has a very nice firewall system that weeds out the junkmail stuff. If you do a search on their own webpage you can find most of the email addresses for 90% of the people you need to complain too.


Posted by: Kash04

my compain is their pricieng for phones.. i mean come on make em cheaper.. we can only use em on your network... and the contract stuff sucks.. one should be abel to change phones and plans as many times as they want.. just as you are there for 2 years... ohh well


Posted by: budney

SirTristan - Great post! I agree with you totally.

Incorrect billing for months, horrible 1X phones, and very unknowledgeable sales people/techs/cs/techs@cs are the reasons I switched to Sprint, at least for the time being. I hope someone comes around and deflates Verizon's Ego, its a little too big now IMO. They do have the best network, but as SirTristan mentioned there phones do not fully take advantage of there great network. Do to many things, not just software problems. If Verizon dosn't straighten up by years end. There will be a lot of people taking there phone numbers else where.


Posted by: J3ff

lol just to go off topic for a second, did I really read that sumone was pissed of at Verizon Customer Service, so they changed to sprint? I never thought I would read that in my life... Isn't sprint customer service even worse than verizon? I mean at least verizon answers the phone in the first 2 mins.... With Sprint what, u wait 30 mins and then get sumone who doesnt know what their head from their butt is?


Posted by: thegonagle

I can understand the 10 months before an upgrade on a one year contract, but the 22 months on a 2 year is crap! I didn't even know about it when I bought my V60i for $50 back in November (they didn't tell me, or I would have paid the $30 extra). Oh well. I'll just go to buy a VX4400 in September and demand satisfaction (or challenge them to a duel.)


Posted by: SirTristan

I too considered switching to Sprint. The Sanyo 8100 really looks like a nice phone!! But I tried Sprint about a year and a half ago and it sucked. CS sucked, the network sucked, and on the lower minute plans...the tried to nickel and dime me to death!

I now need a higher minute plan (i.e. at least 1500 min.) and their 2000 min. with not roaming and unlimited Vision for $110 simply devastates Verizon's higher minute plans.

BUT....and its a BIG but.... I would have to change my number which means updated a couple of hundred customers, reps, and manufacturers that I support. AND its still Sprint...the same bad CS and poor network as before. I would still consider switching if I know that I could roam on to Verizon's network all the time, even if Sprint had service in that area.

Enough of me talking about Sprint...I digress.

...but whoever said Verizon better watch out come November is absolutely right. LNP will remove the number changing issue. Other networks my not be as good, but LNP will make it a lot easier for me to try them out myself!


Posted by: halo17x

Quote:
Originally posted by J3ff
lol just to go off topic for a second, did I really read that sumone was pissed of at Verizon Customer Service, so they changed to sprint? I never thought I would read that in my life... Isn't sprint customer service even worse than verizon? I mean at least verizon answers the phone in the first 2 mins.... With Sprint what, u wait 30 mins and then get sumone who doesnt know what their head from their butt is?


just out of curiosity and off topic, when was the last time you had sprint?

I agree with you SirTristan, the phone upgrade policy REALLY sucks. the only reason i have mine is because it was the first BREW enabled one and i wanted to give it a shot (and I lost my old one ). I would have bought the 4400 a long time ago had it not been for this stupid policy. I feel for those with a 2-year contract. Also, with all the phones, NONE of them stand out as something unique or with a special feature that's worth looking at. The worst: with the unpredictability of New England, I'm dissapointed at how many places I find my Sprint phone working while my verizon doesn't or roams. Not exactly looking forward to this summer's lineup of phones when I plan to upgrade...


Posted by: halo17x

Quote:
Originally posted by SirTristan
BUT....and its a BIG but.... I would have to change my number which means updated a couple of hundred customers, reps, and manufacturers that I support.


Remember: Wireless Number Portability. Find out how great Sprint's RECENT customer service is before you do. It has changed, but it may not be enough for some.


Posted by: SirTristan

Thanks halo17x for your thoughts. I know I should "try" Sprint before November, but it will cost me at least $50-$60 to try. See the way I figure it (...and this is what happened last time I tried Sprint), I will have to pay activation ($35) plus what ever minutes I use on the plan I choose. Even if I get it and service sucks, I really won't know for about a week. That's probably $25 worth of minutes for me. So $35+$25=$60. As for the regular bill if I decided to keep it...my company pays for up to $100 a month.

As for the last time I tried Sprint...it was Feb. 2002. Is it much better in the NC and SC market now?

Lastly, I totally agree with you halo17x about the non-stellar phone line up for the summer. Nothing really stands out as a super phone. I still want to try the a530, but who the hell knows when that will be re-released . Someone mentioned today (4/28) and that didn't happen. The next mentioned date is 4/30. The next after that is 5/1. Does ANYONE really know????


Posted by: Kenster

I've heard 5/5 in the western market and 1st week of June in some markets.


Posted by: David P. Dobson

Quote:
Originally posted by thegonagle
I can understand the 10 months before an upgrade on a one year contract, but the 22 months on a 2 year is crap! I didn't even know about it when I bought my V60i for $50 back in November (they didn't tell me, or I would have paid the $30 extra). Oh well. I'll just go to buy a VX4400 in September and demand satisfaction (or challenge them to a duel.)
DO NOT SIGN A TWO YR. CONTRACT!!!!!!! If the customers refuse the cheap sucker/carrot-on-a-stick deals and stick together, then we'll empower ourselves against VZW's strongarm tactics to enslave the customer. I don't want to get MARRIED, I just want a phone! United we stand...DPD


Posted by: scottb

Quote:
Originally posted by David P. Dobson
[snip...] empower ourselves against VZW's strongarm tactics to enslave the customer. [...snip]


:laughs:


Posted by: CCCC

Quote:
Originally posted by David P. Dobson
DO NOT SIGN A TWO YR. CONTRACT!!!!!!! If the customers refuse the cheap sucker/carrot-on-a-stick deals and stick together, then we'll empower ourselves against VZW's strongarm tactics to enslave the customer. I don't want to get MARRIED, I just want a phone! United we stand...DPD


Hell yes!!!!

NEVER sign a 2 yr contract, who the heck do Vzn think they are anyways. Also tell them to take that insureance scare tactic and shove it too. It's a cell phone. Vzn makes the cellular business good for them, but cr*p for their CUSTOMERS. Every other business, that wants to stay in business makes sure the CUSTOMER COMES FIRST. But not Vzn the new micro$oft, the borg.


Posted by: PeterB

Quote:
Originally posted by SirTristan

I now need a higher minute plan (i.e. at least 1500 min.) and their 2000 min. with not roaming and unlimited Vision for $110 simply devastates Verizon's higher minute plans.


Explain that one to me?

Americas choice PAC25 VS. Sprint F&C 2000
$154.99 VS. $100
2500 minutes VS. 2000 minutes
Free Off peak VS. Free Off peak
1000 MTM VS. Free MTM
Express network VS. Unlimited Vision
$79.99 VS. $120 (according to SPCS website this is the price)

$234.98 VS. $220

500 more minutes for 13.98?

Seems like a deal to me.


Posted by: psycho-

Quote:
Originally posted by PeterB
Explain that one to me?

Americas choice PAC25 VS. Sprint F&C 2000
$154.99 VS. $100
2500 minutes VS. 2000 minutes
Free Off peak VS. Free Off peak
1000 MTM VS. Free MTM
Express network VS. Unlimited Vision
$79.99 VS. $120 (according to SPCS website this is the price)

$234.98 VS. $220

500 more minutes for 13.98?

Seems like a deal to me.


Problem is that on handsets, which most of us use, it's only 15 bucks/month for unlimited vision.


Posted by: SirTristan

Quote:
Originally posted by PeterB
Explain that one to me?

Americas choice PAC25 VS. Sprint F&C 2000
$154.99 VS. $100
2500 minutes VS. 2000 minutes
Free Off peak VS. Free Off peak
1000 MTM VS. Free MTM
Express network VS. Unlimited Vision
$79.99 VS. $120 (according to SPCS website this is the price)

$234.98 VS. $220

500 more minutes for 13.98?

Seems like a deal to me.


Actually the way the Sprint literature reads, you get 2000 anytime minutes, free off peak minutes, UNLIMITED MTM, PLUS UNLIMITED Vision, and Nation wide roaming (CDMA and Analog)...all for $110/month! I have even heard that its $5 cheaper in some markets.

SO...thats VZW @ 234.98 vs. Sprint @ $110. That's $124.98 difference in favor of a new Sprint Customer.

I'm pretty sure my market gets the extra $5 off. My friend's father just got this deal and his total bill (including taxes and other charges) is $107 and some change.

And if you only look at the anytime minutes and forget the rest...Sprint still marginally beats Verizon:

Verizon: $154.99/2500 = $0.062/min.
Sprint: $110/2000 = $0.055/min.

I'm not saying Sprint rules or anything. I'm still a Verizon customer, remember? All I'm saying is that I may have to take a look at Sprint again because for the minutes and features...it appears to be a better deal. ....and I can get a Sanyo 8100 color flip phone with built in camera for $99. Is hard to get a Verizon crappy mono phone for that price these days!


Posted by: PeterB

So the Unlmited Vision is basicaly airtime-free wap?

Whoop de freaking do.

I think ive collectively used any WAP system for a grand total of 10 times.


Posted by: frail

Quote:
Originally posted by PeterB
So the Unlmited Vision is basicaly airtime-free wap?

Whoop de freaking do.

I think ive collectively used any WAP system for a grand total of 10 times.


Airtime free WAP would be awesome for me. I use it all the time.


Posted by: pattwak

Airtime free WAP access is what ALOT of people would like to see on Verizon. I said goodbye to sprint because I couldn't get service here but their F&C plans are lookin pretty competitive and airtime free WAP access is a MUST HAVE for me now adays. I spend way too much time on my phone, and WAP browsing to be screwing around with a company that makes me use my minutes to browse WAP.

I'm a Verizon dealer even, and sprint is starting to look better. Also, their handset selection is 10x's better then vz's.

Last of all they're making some changes in my market that are not very good for my customers, they're going to try to take things away that customers are not going to like. And they're insisting on not adding any extended network coverage in Wyoming before they take away SRW plans and force us to sell AC. Talk about a joke.


Posted by: SirTristan

To add to what praetorian and pattwak said (...thanks for the back up BTW ), Vision is more than just unlimited WAP. Its also wireless WAN at 1xRTT speeds (aka dialup).

That being said, its not intended for someone who wants to replace their regular ISP. Its technically possible, but Sprint will kick you off after a certain period and you will have to reconnect. It is intended for you to connect, get your info (i.e. email, a quick web site, short FTP, etc.) and get off. Its great!! Well, the concept is great...I've never tried this on Sprint, but I do it all the time with Verizon.

I'm a field applications engineer for the semiconductor industry so I have to travel to customers all the time. Sometimes that means hours in a car, other times a plane. Its awesome to be able to check my email from a moving car, or from an airport.

Now with Verizon, I use airtime to make a dialup connection. I sure its the same way with Sprint. But Sprint does offer some sort of business connect feature THROUGH WAP that would allow me to get my mail. This is one of the Vision packs that you can get for free by signing up for a plan with unlimited Vision.

Even if I still used airtime minutes for a dialup connection, it will be at 1x speeds. Verizon seems to be caught in it underwear when it comes to rolling out good 1x phones. Sprint seems to have several phones that support 1x, the Sanyo's being the best so I hear.


Posted by: Kenster

Yeah I'm pretty much in the same boat as many of you - especially those who've tried and left Sprint in the past. And I'm based in one of Sprint's most notorious markets -- Chicago.

I travel a lot too - sometimes I fly 5 times in one week and in fact I'm in Charlotte, NC right now. I go to major metro areas, mid-size towns and small towns - even out in the middle of tiny towns in Washington, North Dakota, Mississippi or South Carolina. I dropped Sprint a couple of years ago because of lousy coverage throughout Chicago and in many many areas throughout the country.

Mind you, I do know they've vastly improved in the past 2 years but can they match Verizon's overall reliability and coverage for someone who travels extensively? I know that Sprint is quite popular with Pilots/Flight attendents but I do so much more than fly to major cities and staying in airport hotels -- where coverage doesn't seem to be of much issue.

Well that's the battle and conflict to deal with.


Posted by: VanillaEps

I was a Sprint PCS customer for about a year and a half before I switched over to Verizon about a year and a half ago. I'm a big fan of fun phones - so it was really hard to switch over to Verizon's lineup.
But I made the switch because they had cheaper plans, a mobile to mobile plan, and the customer service is amazing. 3-4 years ago calling Sprint CS meant keeping your phone on speakerphone and waiting almost 30 minutes for a rep to answer the phone.
Right now I find myself looking around. ATTWS has some nice phones but their GSM coverage in NY - especially Penn Station is void. Spring gets some coverage but hardly and Verizon gets coverage almost anywhere and everywhere....but I may sacrifice that for Sprint's F&C plan with Vision.

How is Sprint's CS now?


Posted by: halo17x

I'm quite ready to recieve a bashing by saying this:

Thier CS has improved ALOT. They have come a long way. granted, they still aren't as great as Verizon's, but sometimes I question if I even notice a difference. My only complaint is the lack of knowledge, but I can't say that about every rep and I hear that from EVERY service provider. Also, it's really easy to reach a rep. Just say "representative" when claire comes up and you're being connected. At this point, I'm kinda questioning why she is even there, not that it bothers me.

Verizon CS is, and hopefully will always be, great. I can't complain at all about them. They seem to do their job very profesionally, too.


Posted by: yOyOYoo

No bluetooth enabled phones!


BOO


Posted by: psycho-

I was playing around with *22802, which brings me to SPCS customer service.

I got connected with a live person in about 2-3 minutes.

I was suprised..so i tried it a few more times at different times.

It's impressive how much they have improved.

I remember when i cancelled 3 years and 2 months ago, the cancellation and retention took 2 hours to reach!


Posted by: VanillaEps

Exactly. It took a long time to reach a CS agent with Sprint. Its nice to hear that their CS has improved because their phones are looking mighty nice.....


Posted by: cd1000

Using both Sprint and VZW, I have noticed an improvement in sprint customer service as well. Hold times have been short and people have been friendly. I have the new 8100 and it is a nice phone for a cheap price--great thing is you don;t have to extend your contract to get a new phone. That is nice for those of us who like the latest and greatest. Oh and the free and clear america plans are very tempting.


Posted by: pattwak

They give you subsidized pricing on new handsets with no contract extension required??

And yes, the free and clear america plans are looking VERY tempting.


Posted by: cd1000

Quote:
Originally posted by pattwak
They give you subsidized pricing on new handsets with no contract extension required??



And yes, the free and clear america plans are looking VERY tempting.


They will often have deals that are just for new activation, but it is very easy to find good deals for existing customers. No contract extension if you activate online!


Posted by: AnthroMatt

Yeah, that is certainly one nice thing about Sprint. Eveyone gets the subsidized pricing at any time. New customers get rebates too, but existing customers are forced to pay steep prices if they want a new phone.


Posted by: pattwak

Their subsidized pricing isn't all that bad... And I like the fact that they give all customers subsidized price and reserve rebates for new customers.


Posted by: CCCC

Quote:
Originally posted by pattwak
Their subsidized pricing isn't all that bad... And I like the fact that they give all customers subsidized price and reserve rebates for new customers.


Pattwak,

Moving to sprint? Let us know what you find


Posted by: pattwak

Already had sprint, dumped them cause they don't have service here that works well enough. Thinking about adding a line just for the F&C America plans and the cool phones, which means I could dump T-MO...

I don't know though. The last time I was with them and cancelled they held my deposit that I paid until I paid in full what I didn't really owe them, so I was sorta mad. If their F&C America plan will allow me to roam without paying that will be nice, but I've yet to find the rates on the net. I've only found the rates for the F&C plans with free vision.

I dunno, I'm just tired of not having the phones that I want.


Posted by: budney

pattwak - The difference in SoCal is $5. Add the $5 to any F&C plan to get the F&CA rates.


Posted by: pattwak

Thanks a million budney...


Posted by: Brooklyn Blues

Sprint's CS may have improved, I'll give them that but it's the same old *****ty network. I'll give them props that you can get a new phone every week without extending your contract and paying a higher price.


Posted by: halo17x

Quote:
Originally posted by Brooklyn Blues
Sprint's CS may have improved, I'll give them that but it's the same old *****ty network. I'll give them props that you can get a new phone every week without extending your contract and paying a higher price.


No intention on starting a flame war, but last time i checked, AT&T has an even smaller (GSM) network? Besides, we're kinda getting off topic. We're here to rant on Verizon, right?


Posted by: Brooklyn Blues

Quote:
Originally posted by halo17x
No intention on starting a flame war, but last time i checked, AT&T has an even smaller (GSM) network? Besides, we're kinda getting off topic. We're here to rant on Verizon, right?


LOL I've tried them all actually including Nextel. Yes, AT&T does have a smaller GSM network which by the way I cancelling today as a matter of fact. I just tried the service and I dont like it. I wanted to switch to Verizon but the lack of phone selection really lures me away. I haved used them before and the coverage is outstanding though. I just wish they would get it together already. I want Java on my phones not some stupid proprietary garbage you know.


Posted by: ZildjianB

Quote:
Originally posted by Brooklyn Blues
...I want Java on my phones not some stupid proprietary garbage you know.

I think Verizon's making too much $$ off of GetItNow to ever GiveItUp . I would love to see Java on their phones, though...


Posted by: halo17x

*supposedly* Verizon is implementing a Java Virtual Machine for Get Junk Now. Watch, they will make that proprietary. If it don't have some kind of Verizon stamp somehow on the app, the phone won't be able to use it. My assumption to use java is that it is a platform that is easy to develope apps for.


Posted by: WDEngineer

Its probably all that Qualcomm corporate culture rubbing off onto Verizon. Qualcomm who vision is undemocratise technology and make anything and everything propreitory. Compare to QCOM, microsoft looks Amnesty intl.


Posted by: phinger23

verizon needs to pull their heads out of their azzes! i just had to fight with them to let me out of my contract for free as they do not hold up to their promises. over 2 years is a lot to put up with their constant like clockwork monthly mistakes that they keep making on my account, no matter what market i was in. The only reason why i kept them so long was all other carriers needed a deposit from me as my credit score went down after 9-11 due to no work when i lived there. i gave up and put the 500 dep. down on Nextel, and for 5 dollars more a month i get 1000 day minutes, free incoming, unlimited DC and N&W, and unlmited 2 way text and web that does not use minutes. and not to mention phones that actually work, not constantly defective like that POS Moto t720, lg 510 and vx1.

*228 seems to mess up phones every now and then. VZ sucks, Sprint sucks too. Stay away from these carriers. CDMA is a great technology, i used to swear by it that nothing was better. I still think it is great, but the carriers that use it suck sh*t. And if your in west coast of florida, if you cant live without VZ, alltel is a roaming partner for VZ, try them.


Posted by: southbay_commut

Quote:
Originally posted by phinger23
verizon needs to pull their heads out of their azzes! i just had to fight with them to let me out of my contract for free as they do not hold up to their promises. over 2 years is a lot to put up with their constant like clockwork monthly mistakes that they keep making on my account, no matter what market i was in. The only reason why i kept them so long was all other carriers needed a deposit from me as my credit score went down after 9-11 due to no work when i lived there. i gave up and put the 500 dep. down on Nextel, and for 5 dollars more a month i get 1000 day minutes, free incoming, unlimited DC and N&W, and unlmited 2 way text and web that does not use minutes. and not to mention phones that actually work, not constantly defective like that POS Moto t720, lg 510 and vx1.

*228 seems to mess up phones every now and then. VZ sucks, Sprint sucks too. Stay away from these carriers. CDMA is a great technology, i used to swear by it that nothing was better. I still think it is great, but the carriers that use it suck sh*t. And if your in west coast of florida, if you cant live without VZ, alltel is a roaming partner for VZ, try them.



It's your loss that you didn't stick around long enough to try the VX 4400 on VZW's network ----it's a truely sweet phone.


Posted by: cd1000

Quote:
Originally posted by phinger23
verizon needs to pull their heads out of their azzes! i just had to fight with them to let me out of my contract for free as they do not hold up to their promises. over 2 years is a lot to put up with their constant like clockwork monthly mistakes that they keep making on my account, no matter what market i was in. The only reason why i kept them so long was all other carriers needed a deposit from me as my credit score went down after 9-11 due to no work when i lived there. i gave up and put the 500 dep. down on Nextel, and for 5 dollars more a month i get 1000 day minutes, free incoming, unlimited DC and N&W, and unlmited 2 way text and web that does not use minutes. and not to mention phones that actually work, not constantly defective like that POS Moto t720, lg 510 and vx1.

*228 seems to mess up phones every now and then. VZ sucks, Sprint sucks too. Stay away from these carriers. CDMA is a great technology, i used to swear by it that nothing was better. I still think it is great, but the carriers that use it suck sh*t. And if your in west coast of florida, if you cant live without VZ, alltel is a roaming partner for VZ, try them.


Nextel--come on--they aren't even worth comparing to verizon. They serve a niche market and nothing else. You will love them if you like walkie talkies on a mediocre(i'm being generous) network.


Posted by: CCCC

Quote:
Originally posted by cd1000
Nextel--come on--they aren't even worth comparing to verizon. They serve a niche market and nothing else. You will love them if you like walkie talkies on a mediocre(i'm being generous) network.


You do not know what your talking about, yet again another one with a lack of information, no proof and a hard on for vzn. (yet with all that information of vzn you also know all about the entire cellular industry) Get your information right, open your eye's and stop the BS

Now for the real information: Check out these maps, coverage looks about the same when you compare dig to dig coverage.

http://www.theneonoutlet.com/im/digital2.jpg

http://www.nextel.com/services/coverage/index.shtml

Maybe the next time the urge to show your "knowledge" about something you know nothing about you'll look around maybe even stop over at

http://www.howardforums.com/forumdi...p?s=&forumid=80

Then there will be less bs and you wont look like someone who doesn't know what the hell your talking about


NO SPIN ZONE HERE!


Posted by: cd1000

Quote:
Originally posted by CCCC
You do not know what your talking about, yet again another one with a lack of information, no proof and a hard on for vzn. (yet with all that information of vzn you also know all about the entire cellular industry) Get your information right, open your eye's and stop the BS

Now for the real information: Check out these maps, coverage looks about the same when you compare dig to dig coverage.

http://www.theneonoutlet.com/im/digital2.jpg

http://www.nextel.com/services/coverage/index.shtml

Maybe the next time the urge to show your "knowledge" about something you know nothing about you'll look around maybe even stop over at

http://www.howardforums.com/forumdi...p?s=&forumid=80

Then there will be less bs and you wont look like someone who doesn't know what the hell your talking about
NO SPIN ZONE HERE!


A little bitter and defensive aren't you? I am surprised you didn't slip in a comment about how Verizon doesn't have any cool phones like you usually whine about. I prefer to have superior phone service that won't let me down rather than a walkie talkie. That is why I use VZW! Grow up--what are you 16?


Posted by: CowboyNYC

cd1000, you really gotta calm down and think things through before you post. Stop the name calling.

Here is my statement: Verizon's network is very reliable and farreaching...BUT they rape you on the billing and they really aren't that much better than anybody else on coverage nowadays. I have been with them since 1998 when they were Bell Atlantic Mobile and let me tell you, they are a bunch of thieves. Overbilling me at every turn. And that contract extention ******** is bogus. And their heel dragging on the number portability cost me thousands of dollar in income. But I switched anyway because they were bleeding me dry.

Calling Nextel a niche market vendor and such is unfounded. Why don't you try backing up your arguments? Have you used them? And regarding CCCC's supposed nagging about Verizon's phones, they were one of the big guns pushing the cutting edge motorola T720 as their flagship phone...And we all know how great that phone is. A network is only as good as the end-user hardware that gets used on it.




Posted by: cd1000

Quote:
Originally posted by CowboyNYC
cd1000, you really gotta calm down and think things through before you post. Stop the name calling.

Here is my statement: Verizon's network is very reliable and farreaching...BUT they rape you on the billing and they really aren't that much better than anybody else on coverage nowadays. I have been with them since 1998 when they were Bell Atlantic Mobile and let me tell you, they are a bunch of thieves. Overbilling me at every turn. And that contract extention ******** is bogus. And their heel dragging on the number portability cost me thousands of dollar in income. But I switched anyway because they were bleeding me dry.

Calling Nextel a niche market vendor and such is unfounded. Why don't you try backing up your arguments? Have you used them? And regarding CCCC's supposed nagging about Verizon's phones, they were one of the big guns pushing the cutting edge motorola T720 as their flagship phone...And we all know how great that phone is. A network is only as good as the end-user hardware that gets used on it.


HMM--I didn't call anyone anything for your information--read my posts a little closer. I have several friends who use NEXTEL in the Denver area who have problems with the service. Two are them are in the construction business and the ptt is great for them. The walkie talkie part works great but their call quality and size of their network cause them some limitations. I used them in Atlanta a few years back and it was just ok--I have used att, currently use sprint and verizon so I have experience using different carriers. All of that being said--NEXTEL grew their business by catering to a niche market--THAT IS NOT A BAD THING-- with ptt it enabled them to garner business with a unique feature that other carriers don't have yet. Why do you think VZW and Sprint are developing ptt technology? The answer is to get into that niche market occupied by nextel and make money. I don't work for VZW, it just works well for me--. Enough said.


Posted by: CowboyNYC

Quote:
Originally posted by cd1000
<snip> That is why I use VZW! Grow up--what are you 16?


Looks to me like that was baiting.


Posted by: HBL

My rant is I would like VZW to offer a new Nokia CDMA phone. My son works for Sprint. He tells me the 3585i is one of the most sought after phones by customers in the retail Sprint stores here in Cali.
He indicates no returns or complaints on any of the phones sold at his location so far.

Sprint's got the 3585
US Cellular is using the 6385

The 6585 is in the works.

Can't VZW at least offer ONE of these phones?



HBL


Posted by: AnthroMatt

The 3585 looks and feels nice, I gave it serious consideration yesterday. Sprint must only be selling lots of it because it is free after rebate though. The Sprint version of the phone does not even have the ability to text message. No web browser either. That is just nuts these says. If you are not into any of that then it would be a good deal, but when companies like Verizon are trying to shove GIN and text messaging down your throats don't expect them to offer a similar "stripped" phone. As much as us Verizon users like to complain about how are phones are stripped down, at least they all have a browser.

I think Verizon just needs to get phones with features that can compete with other carriers. Whether the phone is a Nokia or Samsung or LG shouldn't matter. When Verizon finally gets a decent selection then we can start demanding specific manufacturers, LOL. Baby steps


Posted by: phinger23

verizon needs to get phones that are a lot more reliable. take the t720 that POS. the AT&T one was a POS also, but nt as bad as the VZ one. I went thru about 12 phones last year. 3 t720s in one month alone before i got the cdm 9500, which has been perfect for reliability and reception. im not using it anymore as my VZW contract is being relaesed early with no ETF cuz as a carrier they SUK.

anyone interested in a used Audiovox branded VZW CDM-9500, good condition, some surface scrapes on front and back, slim battery with door, exteneded battery with door, OEM belt clip/holster in original box? PM me!


Posted by: phinger23

cd, if VZ actually works for ya, good luck, your gonna need it. as wireless service is concerned, you may have great service, but dont have a shock when your bill is messed up...

VZW Worry free guarantee...loads of corporate BS to make a customer feel better. No hassel, no runaraounds, your problem is our problem the first time you call...we will even call you back asap. They dont even follow their own promises, but you may be fine.

As for Nextel service, their coverage maps are just as cometitive as everyone else. asll carriers have their extra coverage the other dont, ok fine. NXTL is not perfect by far, nor is anyone else. if you are trying to compare NXTL to VZW national coverage, VZ has more, but a lot more in areas that people dont really go to. i just drove to Cincinnati OH from tampa FL, and had servic ethe whole way where my sisters phone was dead in most of kentucky (She has friggn Sprint PCS) for most people, the coverage is wehere they go, they cover over 80% of civilized america. thats all they need. as for having a dual band phone, a model or too woud be a nice twist of security for those who are in the weirdest of areas


Posted by: frail

Quote:
Originally posted by HBL
My rant is I would like VZW to offer a new Nokia CDMA phone. My son works for Sprint. He tells me the 3585i is one of the most sought after phones by customers in the retail Sprint stores here in Cali.
He indicates no returns or complaints on any of the phones sold at his location so far.

Sprint's got the 3585
US Cellular is using the 6385

The 6585 is in the works.

Can't VZW at least offer ONE of these phones?



HBL


I'm looking forward to the 6385 personally, or the 3586i which is a color screen variant of the 3585. I've heard the 3586i is in testing right now.

AFAIK Verizon didn't offer the 3585 or the 6385 because they weren't e-911 capable.


Posted by: DemonMucha

I'm complaing cuz Frail keeps chaging his name!!! AHHHHHH!!!

Kinda sounds like me at a liquor store (or bar) trying to pick my drink of choice for the night!


Posted by: frail

Quote:
Originally posted by DemonMucha
I'm complaing cuz Frail keeps chaging his name!!! AHHHHHH!!!

Kinda sounds like me at a liquor store (or bar) trying to pick my drink of choice for the night!


Hardly a VZW rant but I guess I can let it slide... j/k


Posted by: SMP

Seriously,

Whay does nobody actually look at the developing network technolgies instead of handsets. Verizon and other US based carriers made a huge mistake in banking on CDMA taking over the world market. In the short term they have made their point. CDMA is 100% a better network standard than existing GSM based networks. One has to take into consideration future evolutions of network standards such as CDMA or GSM when really deciding which will really win in the long run.

Anybody out of the technological loop knows already that CDMA is currently following the migration path from CDMA 2000 1x to 1xEVDO to 1x EVDV. GSM networks are following a migration path from GSM/GRPS to GSM/EDGE to GSM/UTMS or GSM/1x/WCDMA.

Whats the difference?

If CDMA2000 is 3G than WCDMA is 4G. Think of it this way, GSM uses a 250 khz carrier, CDMA uses a 1.25Mhz carrier, WCDMA uses a 5 MHz carrier - hence wideband.

What the CDMA people are saying is that, hey we got this technology that is close to ten years old but it performs a hell of a lot better than (GSM) that you are using now, which is over 15 years old. And of course, it is much better than the new technology (WCDMA) that you have just invented and trying to commercialize now. Why not forget both, and just use our technology.

The point is that while CDMA is mature now and starting to evolve more rapidly as a technology with 1xRTT, and 1x EV-DO/DV, it is still limited by its 1.25MHz carrier design. There is only so much bandwidth that you can pack into a 1.25MHz carrier (so far about 2.4 Mbps with EV-DO) or 3.1 Mbps with (EV-DV).

With its bigger carrier, WCDMA networks will always be capable of 3x the throughput of CDMA. All those performance improvements, like 1x, and EV-DO/DV, will eventually be developed for WCDMA. When the technical improvements of EV-DO/DV is deployed over a WCDMA network it should get
something like 7.2 Mbps.

In five year's time, when WCDMA is mature, anyone who has purposely built a 3G network using CDMA2000 1x, will end up like today's GPRS operators trying to compete against CDMA 1x.

Qualcomm is actually asking people to rush into a technology that will be outdated in a couple of years. US analysts and companies like Verizon are always the first ones to be taken in by Qualcomm, understandably, and always tell only one side of the story.


Posted by: David P. Dobson

Quote:
Originally posted by DemonMucha
I'm complaing cuz Frail keeps chaging his name!!! AHHHHHH!!!

Kinda sounds like me at a liquor store (or bar) trying to pick my drink of choice for the night!
He must of been feeling frail that day? I still think Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde would be perfect to decribe the mood swings! DPD


Posted by: frail

Quote:
Originally posted by David P. Dobson
He must of been feeling frail that day? I still think Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde would be perfect to decribe the mood swings! DPD


frail's been my username for many things for years. Kinda got tired of it so I tried different names. None really did it for me so I went back.


Posted by: macmac

What the CDMA people are saying is that, hey we got this technology that is close to ten years old but it performs a hell of a lot better than (GSM) that you are using now, which is over 15 years old. And of course, it is much better than the new technology (WCDMA) that you have just invented and trying to commercialize now. Why not forget both, and just use our technology.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

this guy is smart...........


Posted by: davegtestr

"In five year's time, when WCDMA is mature"

VERY wishful thinking there. WCDMA is SO expensive and unproven, outside of Japan. It will work in the dense cities, but is far too expensive for a country the size of the U.S. Question: Why is ATT only able to configure a handful of cities for WCDMA this year? When will they have WCDMA in 85% of their coverage area. How about Cingular?

Answer: They [ATT/Cingular/CellOne/others] are still spending plenty enough money upgrading to GSM/GPRS and filling in holes in 800 MHz-network cities as 1900 MHz doesn't travel as far.


Posted by: SMP

"VERY wishful thinking there. WCDMA is SO expensive and unproven, outside of Japan. It will work in the dense cities, but is far too expensive for a country the size of the U.S. Question: Why is ATT only able to configure a handful of cities for WCDMA this year? When will they have WCDMA in 85% of their coverage area. How about Cingular?

Answer: They [ATT/Cingular/CellOne/others] are still spending plenty enough money upgrading to GSM/GPRS and filling in holes in 800 MHz-network cities as 1900 MHz doesn't travel as far."

Hi Dave,

Good points you make there. I am not trying to start a useless and unproductive war of standards discussion. You make a valid point that currrent GSM networks are operating off the 1900mhz channel. However, when companies such as AT&T for instance actually finish their migration from TDMAGSM they will have plenty of frequency spectrum available in the 850Mhz band (already FCC approved) for the WCDMA push which is not going to take as long as everybody thinks it will.

In North America, CDMA is going to be a dominating technology until GSM based carriers complete a full WCDMA build out. Its going to be real interesting to see what happens in another 5 years or so and how the wireless market plays out. Afterall, if the network standard playing field gets leveled out some, then we as consumers will benefit from it.


Posted by: Bren

Quote:
Originally posted by SirTristan

...but whoever said Verizon better watch out come November is absolutely right. LNP will remove the number changing issue. Other networks my not be as good, but LNP will make it a lot easier for me to try them out myself! [/B]



Ok, I'm new to the forum. What does LNP stand for?


Posted by: frail

Quote:
Originally posted by Bren
Ok, I'm new to the forum. What does LNP stand for?


Local Number Portability.


Posted by: SMP

LNP is IMHO is going to be such a minor issue. Consider that the three largest cellular providers in the US, Verizon, Cingular and AT&T control approximately 70-75%+ of the US Wireless market subscriber share.

All that is gonna happen is when LNP rolls around Verizon will lose 2 million customers to AT&T, AT&T will lose 2 million customers to Verizon, etc. I think you see the point.

The large carriers are not going to pay attention the small guys because their price plans are essentially the same. Why would any of them concentrate on what Sprint or T-Mobile, etc offers such as high minutes per month or gimmick phones with crappy coverage?

Coverage is what matters nowdays and that is why the big 3 are not going to suffer from it. At the worst you will see consumer and business bases align themselves with carriers that provide the best coverage in the areas that they need it. The little carriers like Sprint and T-Mobile are going to get shelacked because of this factor.

As it stands now Verizon will retain and gain more control of the Eastern US market (The Prize), AT&T will probably gain subscribers from Verizon in the Western US, and Cingular will hold its own in the southeast and gain some marketshare from both Verizon & ATT in the midwest.

Southern California will come back to normal and be split between Verizon and AT&T. God knows Cingular and T-Mobile screwed that market up royally. However, comsumers/businesses were stupid to choose either in the first place had they done some research before signing up.

It seems confusing, does it not? LNP will make no difference to the average consumer besides being able to take your number with you. Until you see multiple carriers able to compete from a network technology/coverage & services standpoint there will be no real competition in the wireless marketplace. That is not going to happen until all major carriers employ a CDMA or WCDMA network. Wait 5-6 years, then it gets interesting.


Posted by: CCCC

Quote:
Originally posted by SMP
LNP is IMHO is going to be such a minor issue. Consider that the three largest cellular providers in the US, Verizon, Cingular and AT&T control approximately 70-75%+ of the US Wireless market subscriber share.

All that is gonna happen is when LNP rolls around Verizon will lose 2 million customers to AT&T, AT&T will lose 2 million customers to Verizon, etc. I think you see the point.

The large carriers are not going to pay attention the small guys because their price plans are essentially the same. Why would any of them concentrate on what Sprint or T-Mobile, etc offers such as high minutes per month or gimmick phones with crappy coverage?

Coverage is what matters nowdays and that is why the big 3 are not going to suffer from it. At the worst you will see consumer and business bases align themselves with carriers that provide the best coverage in the areas that they need it. The little carriers like Sprint and T-Mobile are going to get shelacked because of this factor.

As it stands now Verizon will retain and gain more control of the Eastern US market (The Prize), AT&T will probably gain subscribers from Verizon in the Western US, and Cingular will hold its own in the southeast and gain some marketshare from both Verizon & ATT in the midwest.

Southern California will come back to normal and be split between Verizon and AT&T. God knows Cingular and T-Mobile screwed that market up royally. However, comsumers/businesses were stupid to choose either in the first place had they done some research before signing up.

It seems confusing, does it not? LNP will make no difference to the average consumer besides being able to take your number with you. Until you see multiple carriers able to compete from a network technology/coverage & services standpoint there will be no real competition in the wireless marketplace. That is not going to happen until all major carriers employ a CDMA or WCDMA network. Wait 5-6 years, then it gets interesting.


OR NOT! If it was such a minor issue then why is VZN so nervous and spending all that $$ to fight against the FCC and in the larger picture fight against it's own customers? You and others feel the need to white wash this issue... however the facts are LNP is being done other places and it works. The customer should be able to keep thier number and move it to whichever provider they feel like. Thats reason enough to be FOR LNP. As for the large providers not paying any attention to the younger and smarter and hungry providers, if thats true those "large carriers" are not going to be large for long. Dont count those little guys out....

The customers will decide if they are paying for a good thing and if they are being treated properly. People must open their eyes to see that VZN is fighting AGAINST it's customers in this and probably other issues that have yet to come up in the news. Verizon still has never learned that in a good business that lasts, THE CUSTOMER ALWAYS COME FIRST!


Posted by: David P. Dobson

Quote:
Originally posted by CCCC
OR NOT! If it was such a minor issue then why is VZN so nervous and spending all that $$ to fight against the FCC and in the larger picture fight against it's own customers? You and others feel the need to white wash this issue... however the facts are LNP is being done other places and it works. The customer should be able to keep thier number and move it to whichever provider they feel like. Thats reason enough to be FOR LNP. As for the large providers not paying any attention to the younger and smarter and hungry providers, if thats true those "large carriers" are not going to be large for long. Dont count those little guys out....

The customers will decide if they are paying for a good thing and if they are being treated properly. People must open their eyes to see that VZN is fighting AGAINST it's customers in this and probably other issues that have yet to come up in the news. Verizon still has never learned that in a good business that lasts, THE CUSTOMER ALWAYS COME FIRST!
I think you're absolutely right 4C. What burns me is that erizon is using OUR money against us! DPD


Posted by: SMP

"OR NOT! If it was such a minor issue then why is VZN so nervous and spending all that $$ to fight against the FCC and in the larger picture fight against it's own customers? You and others feel the need to white wash this issue... however the facts are LNP is being done other places and it works. The customer should be able to keep thier number and move it to whichever provider they feel like. Thats reason enough to be FOR LNP. As for the large providers not paying any attention to the younger and smarter and hungry providers, if thats true those "large carriers" are not going to be large for long. Dont count those little guys out.... "

Perhaps, I did not make my post specific enough. Of course VZW is fighting LNP, why? Because they stand the most to lose financially when comsumers and business' locked into other carriers decide they want to migrate over because VZW currently offers the best national coverage. When considering the cost of starting an account is already running carriers an average of almost $275.00 and adding the costs associated with number portability at $200-300 per subscriber its no wonder VZW or any other major player in the industry is against it.

Its a two sided aruguement. On one hand you have the provider who feels they should not have to eat the costs available with LNP, and on the other you have the subscriber who feels they should not eat the cost becuase they signed up with a carrier that could not meet their needs but did not want to pay the cost for a carrier that could have in the first place.

Folks, I am certainly no VZW cheerleader, if you doubt it then read my other posts. Fact is if I were in charge of VZW, AT&T or Cingular's leadership then I would oppose LNP as well. In fact, why do you think that VZW's calling plans and services are increasing in price effective 06/02? To absorb the costs of LNP that is why. Just wait the other two will soon follow suit.

The bottom line is there is no such thing as a free lunch and all that LNP is going to bring is higher service costs from the carriers like VZW, ATT anc Cingular for the consumer. Sh*t rolls down hill, always has always will.


Posted by: CCCC

Please getting customers is too expensive? thats why vzn is fighting it.... yeah ok..... bs#1 and best coverage? bs#2

As for VZW's calling plans and services are increasing in price effective 06/02? One word... GREED. They dont care about their customers, and think about it if the small guys are doing it for less than why is the large dinosaur vzn (the largest provider) raising prices? cuz of GREED.

I agree with sh*t rolling down hill but LNP isn't gonna cost as much as all the vealots think they know, but that is usually the case here at hofo.


Posted by: AnthroMatt

Quote:
Originally posted by SMP
Of course VZW is fighting LNP, why? Because they stand the most to lose financially when comsumers and business' locked into other carriers decide they want to migrate over because VZW currently offers the best national coverage. When considering the cost of starting an account is already running carriers an average of almost $275.00 and adding the costs associated with number portability at $200-300 per subscriber its no wonder VZW or any other major player in the industry is against it.

Folks, I am certainly no VZW cheerleader, if you doubt it then read my other posts. Fact is if I were in charge of VZW, AT&T or Cingular's leadership then I would oppose LNP as well. In fact, why do you think that VZW's calling plans and services are increasing in price effective 06/02? To absorb the costs of LNP that is why. Just wait the other two will soon follow suit.


If you are so certain Verizon is going to have a flood of new customers (they very might, who knows?) are you trying to tell me that Verizon is worried about this? "OH NO! We might actually make more money!" I cannot see that happening. Certainly they will lose some customers as well. So what if it does cost them even more to start a new account, do you honestly think Verizon would rather not gain these potential new customers? In your example you use busniess accounts. Presumably these business accoutns will spend WAY more than your individual subscriber. Thats a lot of potential profits. So Verizon is fighting LNP so they can save a few hundred bucks setting up the accounts but lose out on potenially thousands of dollars of income? That's interesting logic...it makes zero sense so I must not be understanding your argument.

So what if rate plans increase more? They can hide behind LNP recovery costs all they want, but CCCC is right: it is all about greed.

How else can you explain all of Verizon's recent actions? Digital-only phones...as someone else mentioned elsewhere, it is a ploy to force roaming partners to upgrade their systems to digital or face losing a lot of roaming revenue.

GetItNow as the ONLY option to get ringers and games, etc.? GREED.

Ever read your service agrement? If you want to leave Verizon and take your number with you if LNP ever goes into effect...they will charge you a fee to do so. That sounds like some recovery of costs.

Tell me how much LNP might cost Verizon (give me the high end estimate, I don't care) and then tell me how many current Verizon customers there are. Then do some math and see what the avg cost per CURRENT subscriber is. I don't think it's very high at all. Besides, if Verizon is going to gain so many new customers, why not charge them a LNP "sign-up" fee too?

For Verizon customers, it totally stinks that Verizon is using the money you pay them each month to turn around and fight legislation that may benefit you (but certainly won't hurt you). There is one reason and one reason alone Verizon opposes WNP: it might reduce profits.


Posted by: CCCC

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthroMatt
[B}
Ever read your service agrement? If you want to leave Verizon and take your number with you if LNP ever goes into effect...they will charge you a fee to do so. That sounds like some recovery of costs.[/B]


Anthromatt... right there with you on your post..... Where is the above noted on the bill? I was thinking of waiting then moving my number in nov. (when lnp kicks in, long overdue) But I will not pay vzn a penny for MY NUMBER, which doesn't belong to them in the first place.

Its all about VZN and GREED. The funny thing is they do it to us thier customers and by and large we let it all go and whitewash all the problems and kid ourselves that vzn is worth all the nonesence. Time for vzn customers to wake up. The other providers are good, if not better in most cases. Vzn is worried about LNP because maybe customers will finally wake up and see whats going on here and see how vzn takes advantage of all of us. Time to tell vzn the only way they listen to.... the $$. Come'on vzn customers wake up and see what else is out there, we'll all be surprised and happier. VZN doesn't care about its customers and again its all about GREED


Posted by: AnthroMatt

It's not in the bill, it is in the Customer Agreement which you can find on the Verizon webpage. You also get a copy mailed to you a few days after you activate service. It is in the cancellation section, here is what it says:

"If federal law requires us to let you keep your wireless phone number after termination, we may charge a fee."


To be fair CCCC, I think all the companies are very greedy. However, some are worse than others. :eek

It is odd that companies can charge a fee for something they don't own (phone numbers are not private property). When I lived in Gainesville and moved across town BellSouth wanted to charge me $15/month (!) to keep my home number the same. That wasn't even with different companies involved! I said forget about it and got a new number.


Posted by: CCCC

Quote:
Originally posted by AnthroMatt
It's not in the bill, it is in the Customer Agreement which you can find on the Verizon webpage. You also get a copy mailed to you a few days after you activate service. It is in the cancellation section, here is what it says:

"If federal law requires us to let you keep your wireless phone number after termination, we may charge a fee."


I'm sure they grandfathered it in somehow, but what about all us older customer that have been with them since the Bell Atlantic Wireless days? (when they were a good caring company) I never signed any agreement with that line on it. But like I said I'm sure they dropped it on all of us.... Maybe a court of law or the fcc will let them know they cannot charge a person for a phone number that vzn doesn't own in the first place. VZN GREED


Posted by: AnthroMatt

I don't think it matters how long you have been a customer...all that matters is the last time you signed a contract with them.


Posted by: SMP

"Its all about VZN and GREED. The funny thing is they do it to us thier customers and by and large we let it all go and whitewash all the problems and kid ourselves that vzn is worth all the nonesence. Time for vzn customers to wake up. The other providers are good, if not better in most cases. Vzn is worried about LNP because maybe customers will finally wake up and see whats going on here and see how vzn takes advantage of all of us. Time to tell vzn the only way they listen to.... the $$. Come'on vzn customers wake up and see what else is out there, we'll all be surprised and happier. VZN doesn't care about its customers and again its all about GREED"


CCCC, perhaps you are not reading into my posts enough. Do I like VZW?, not really, however facts are facts. They currently have the largest subscriber base, network and total revenues. That information is readily available from multiple sources. In fact they very near to becoming a monopoly because they can outspend any carrier into the ground. At the pace they are purchasing spectrum from cash strapped carriers it won't be long until they own the entire CDMA frequency spectrum.

Do I like it, no and I'll tell you why. Monopolies stiffle competition and hurt the comsumer in the long run through degraded quality of service and higher prices. You need look no farther than the landline market to see what I am talking about. In my previous post I am simply making pointing out what is most likely going to happen in my opinion. If you agree with it then fine, if not that's fine also.

Just a question CCCC, do you honestly think that any other wireless communications provider in the US is not driven by greed for more profit? Name me one phone company that has ever acted with its customers best interests in mind when exectutive compensation has been threatened or the opportunity to increase it became available? The answer is easy, its zero.


Posted by: AnthroMatt

Quote:
Originally posted by SMP
In fact they very near to becoming a monopoly because they can outspend any carrier into the ground. At the pace they are purchasing spectrum from cash strapped carriers it won't be long until they own the entire CDMA frequency spectrum.


OMG! That is the most absurd thing I have read. Own all of CDMA?? That will NEVER happen. The reasons are too numerous to list, but first of all:

1) The USA is NOT a free market capitalist economy. Companies can't just buy whichever comapnies they want. Federal regulators must oversee their activities. If Verizon tried to buy Sprint, USCC, and Alltel there is NO WAY that would get past regulators.

2) Verizon does not have enough cash to purchase those companies and make a profit at the same time. They still haven't got their act together from their formation 4 years ago...the country is still on different billing systems. How long would it take them to do it all over again if they acquired those companies???


Posted by: AnthroMatt

I tried to edit my last message, but apparently the 30 minute limit is more like 20 minutes.

Anyway, I wanted to add that even if Verizon did buy all CDMA carriers, I realize they would still face competition from GSM and iDEN. I see no reason why GSM would not follow the same path as CDMA under your scenario though...with one company buying everything. iDEN would probably die out or be taking over. So that would leave two cell providers, one GSM and one CDMA in the US. Not gonna happen.


Posted by: SMP

AnthroMatt,

I should have been more specific. The frequency spectrum I mentioned is CDMA 800. Take a look around, there is not too much left that VZW has not already taken over or bought outright. The only major players left with fair amount of CDMA 800mhz spectrum are US Cellular and Alltel. I realize VZW also uses CDMA 1900 in some regions, however the CDMA 800 spectrum is the one carriers covet the most.

Personally I could care less what happens with the CDMA 1900 spectrum, I and many others want digital service at 800mhz for the obvious reason that it works better in terms of coverage and signal strength in service challenged environments.

What happens with Alltel's spectrum is anybody's guess, they are not doing spectacularly however they are not hurting that badly. US Cellular is cash strapped and will probably end up selling some spectrum off eventually. Wanna guess what company will be there to buy it?


Posted by: AnthroMatt

OK, well I won't argue with the possibility that Verizon will take over the 800MHz spectrum part of CDMA.


Posted by: vzwtech

You may not know this but Verizon Wireless is a BUSINESS. In order for a business to survive they need to make MONEY. Remember the early days of the Internet where “free” was the keyword, free web page hosting, free products given away by new dot-coms, free internet service, etc. Where are all those business now? I don’t like paying for gas, hey Arco why do you charge me so much, I like hamburgers, hey McDonald’s 2.49 for a Quarter Pounder? I think it should be free.


Posted by: AnthroMatt

Verizon a business? Gee, I didn't know that. Where did someone argue that Verizon shouldn't make money or that they should give stuff away for free? For isntance, I was just saying their desire to make as much money as possible was screwing over their customers. Obviously they want to make money.


Posted by: Giftedone

One rant I have a VZW is that everytime I need something there website NEVER works.


Posted by: BigDaddy5

Quote:
Originally posted by Giftedone
One rant I have a VZW is that everytime I need something there website NEVER works.


That sounds like a "Murphy's Law" rant, you can't hold Verizon accountable for that. It happens to everyone, as soon as you want something from them, it wont work. It's not their fault at all. They don't have to make a website that works all the time, because that's part of the "Law." I'd just be glad that it works at all...<--Sarcasm (I have to put that down now, because I've offended people with my sense of humor)


Posted by: AnthroMatt

Actually, Verizon probably identified his IP address and programmed their site to fail whenever he attempted to access it.

(That is sarcasm too)


Posted by: skeptical

I think every carrier should provide their services for free. As a matter of fact, every business in general, should not try to make by money by charging their customers. Everything should be free, free, free! And to be fair, I will no longer require my company to pay me my salary, as the services I provide them should be free as well.


Posted by: BigDaddy5

Quote:
Originally posted by skeptical
I think every carrier should provide their services for free. As a matter of fact, every business in general, should not try to make by money by charging their customers. Everything should be free, free, free! And to be fair, I will no longer require my company to pay me my salary, as the services I provide them should be free as well.


Nice. I like that idea...let's market as...something that sounds good. Marxism!! Or Communism!!! We just need to watch out for greedy leaders....


Posted by: JohnnyK

Why on earth do you think "small" carriers like T-Mobile are going to just disappear?

I may have more gripes about T-Mobile than anyone else, but I don't imagine them as on the verge of failure. They just have a long road ahead of them as they must compensage for the shortcomings of the PCS spectrum with lots of repeaters and microcells.

Hopefully they'll learn and jump on the 700mhz spectrum when it gets freed up from such quality networks as UPN.


Posted by: The SPCS Guy

Think about Verizon the telephone company, and all those poor people they GAVE the BOOT b4 Christmas to, so the BIG Men at the helm could eat steak and gravy and eat up all the BIG money.

DeathRizon the phone company thought they had it made, that's before the were ordered to open up their system to competition and LNP.
Look what happened....The people spoke and switched service providers.

I did, went to Z-TEL , that was a nightmre. I'm back with DeathRizon, because basically there is no company out there with their own system and lines here in NYC. Verizon owns it all and they still are hurtin'
If there was a company with their own system and lines here in NYC, Verizon would be toast!

As for VZW, they will be tested when WNP comes into play, but with diehard fans stickin by them, not enuf to render them #2.

JE


Posted by: CCCC

Quote:
Originally posted by The SPCS Guy
Think about Verizon the telephone company, and all those poor people they GAVE the BOOT b4 Christmas to, so the BIG Men at the helm could eat steak and gravy and eat up all the BIG money.

DeathRizon the phone company thought they had it made, that's before the were ordered to open up their system to competition and LNP.
Look what happened....The people spoke and switched service providers.

I did, went to Z-TEL , that was a nightmre. I'm back with DeathRizon, because basically there is no company out there with their own system and lines here in NYC. Verizon owns it all and they still are hurtin'
If there was a company with their own system and lines here in NYC, Verizon would be toast!

As for VZW, they will be tested when WNP comes into play, but with diehard fans stickin by them, not enuf to render them #2.

JE


vzn knows that and thats why they feel they can treat customers and anyone else the way they do. If customers would be smart they would open up their eyes and stand up to vzn and not let them get away with their anti-consumer stance.
(fighting consumers and fcc on lnp/wnp)
(poorly trained staff in corp. stores)
(still not a phone on par with the other providers, even though the cdma phones are out there)
(still "America's largest" most high tech, and MOST EXPENSIVE, network does little more than let you make a phone call, seems the gsm and other providers are getting alot more use out of their networks.)
Here in NYC just about any wireless provider should work well for you, its when you get outta the city a bit thats when you need to make sure your still ok, and guess what, you will be in most cases's. The other cellular providers are getting better and better. There is life after vzn.


Posted by: SMP

Why on earth do you think "small" carriers like T-Mobile are going to just disappear?

I may have more gripes about T-Mobile than anyone else, but I don't imagine them as on the verge of failure. They just have a long road ahead of them as they must compensage for the shortcomings of the PCS spectrum with lots of repeaters and microcells.

Hopefully they'll learn and jump on the 700mhz spectrum when it gets freed up from such quality networks as UPN."

T-Mobile has absolutely no cash available to bid competitively if a 700mhz frequency auction were to occur. In fact none of the other carriers out there have the money available, AT&T could probably scrap it up, but it would serve no purpose. They already own a very nice piece of the pie at 850/1900.

Duetch Telecom has made no secret they will get rid of their North American venture, provided the price is right. Unfortunately, no US based carrier in their right mind will buy T-Mobile because there will be no profit in doing so.

Go ahead and read the speeches from the 2003 CTIA convention. VZW has met its goal of converting its self owned networks to 1xRTT as of June 02, 2003. If that were not enough they now are saying that they are going to start migration to 1xEVDO later this year. Face it, VZW has the financial horsepower to pull it off and there is nobody around that can stop them. Hopefully Sprint can allocate the resources financially to keep the network technology playing field level and migrate to 1xEVDO, I doubt its gonna happen.

I hate to say it, but we are going to have a Microsoft in the wireless arena, its name is Verizon Wireless. That is until GSM based carriers consolidate and deploy WCDMA networks which could be another 5+ years from now.

Just my .02


Posted by: Devilish

As I have said so many times before. Damn it Verizon use your so called best network and give alittle back to your customers (NET FREE) but give us some nice phones so we can enjoy. People here are hungry for some nice phones. I want to do more make phone calls.

So I dont want people here to tell me Verizon got the best network cause I already did give them credit for their superior netwrok but tell me why cant we get some nice phones that do a little more than phone calls or some other service that we can benefit from.

The same prople that always say Verizon got the best network and they dont care about anything else, they are always Bi***ing that they want a nicer phone.


Posted by: JohnnyK

Quote:
Originally posted by SMP
I hate to say it, but we are going to have a Microsoft in the wireless arena, its name is Verizon Wireless. That is until GSM based carriers consolidate and deploy WCDMA networks which could be another 5+ years from now.

Just my .02


Well if that's the case, I'm planting my flag in GSM territory. If not with T-Mo than with Cingular.


Posted by: JohnnyK

You can pry my SIM card from my cold, dead hands


Posted by: L Train

Quote:
Originally posted by Devilish
As I have said so many times before. Damn it Verizon use your so called best network and give alittle back to your customers (NET FREE) but give us some nice phones so we can enjoy. People here are hungry for some nice phones. I want to do more make phone calls.

So I dont want people here to tell me Verizon got the best network cause I already did give them credit for their superior netwrok but tell me why cant we get some nice phones that do a little more than phone calls or some other service that we can benefit from.

The same prople that always say Verizon got the best network and they dont care about anything else, they are always Bi***ing that they want a nicer phone.


Amen!

Thank. Get us the damn phones already. Why the f*ck does Sprint manage to get them??? Tell me?? Why the f*ck is Sprint always first to get groundbreaking phones??? Their company is *****, pure ***** on a stick. Verizon is the best and should have more to say for themselves. Its' a damn shame we got pieces of ***** like the Audiovoxes and T720. What garbage. No wonder why Sprint never got the T720, they were actually smart for a change! I give them credit for once!

And lastly, who the f*ck is the a$$hole making the phone selections for Verizon??? I'd love to shove a T720 up his a$$!

GET THE F*CKING PHONES ALREADY AND STOP LETTING SPRINT GET AHEAD!!! WHO GIVES A ***** ABOUT THE LOUD AND ANNOYING PTT SERVICE THOSE NEXTEL IDIOTS USE!!! GIVE US THE COLOR CLAMSHELLS WITH BLUETOOTH AND 65K COLOR TFT DUAL SCREENS!!!

And for once, for once in your miserable f*cking life Verizon, for the love of Jesus and all humanity, try to get to Samsung A610 before Sprint gets the 600!!!! Can you do that??? Just for once Verizon???? Can't you just just beat Sprint in releasing one god damn phone for once !!!!!???? Where's your pride.

Thank you. I'm going to take a tranquilizer now


Posted by: chefofthefuture

Quote:
Originally posted by SMP

Duetch Telecom has made no secret they will get rid of their North American venture, provided the price is right. Unfortunately, no US based carrier in their right mind will buy T-Mobile because there will be no profit in doing so.

I hate to say it, but we are going to have a Microsoft in the wireless arena, its name is Verizon Wireless. That is until GSM based carriers consolidate and deploy WCDMA networks which could be another 5+ years from now.


You may be right on this, but the need for data and more capacity from cell providers is slipping away more quickly every day. By the time any mobile carrier is able to deploy the next generation of any GSM or CDMA technology, Wi-Fi hotspots will have made such massive inroads into that market that the profit potential from EVDO will be seriously impacted. Except for using yourlaptop while on the train or at the beach, chances are most places we'll be -- hotels, conference centers, etc -- will already have Wi-Fi hotspots to use that are faster than EVDO.


Posted by: shlee_ny

So, my rant about the VW is not so much about their crappy selection of phones but more about their customer service.

What the freak?!?! So I just received my bill for this month and it's suddenly $10 more than it used to be. Huh? It turns out that my promotional (i.e., free) 4000 N&W minutes has been replaced with unlimited N&W minutes for $10. Hello? Did I ask you to suddenly go and change my service? Did you even bother to ask me or let me know? I don't even need the unlimited minutes, 4000 minutes is already way too much. This really pisses me off. When I first signed my 1-year contract...they sent me a confirmation letter that I had agreed to a 2-year contract. Umm....huh? After some arguing with rep, I finally got that corrected. Then, suddenly they start charging me for my promotional minutes. Umm...huh again? The rep I called played it off as an innocent mistake. WTFever. Argh!! This crap really pisses me off. I'm seriously considering switching providers come November when I can keep my number.

BWAH!!




Posted by: chefofthefuture

Quote:
Originally posted by shlee_ny
The rep I called played it off as an innocent mistake. WTFever. Argh!! This crap really pisses me off. I'm seriously considering switching providers come November when I can keep my number.


Verizon sure have an awful lot of these "billing mistakes." Either they're doing it on purpose or whoever wrote their billing software should be fired.

A friend of mine got a bill where they had charged for minute overages without first depleting the promotional minutes. She asked me to look at the bill and it was a glaring error -- the promotional minutes used were like 82 out of 200 available, then there were 100-odd minutes of overages. CS played it off as the usual billing error, so sorry, we'll fix that right up, but it still seems so insidious.

Bottom line: If you have verizon, watch your bill very carefully, every month. Use the online billing so you can look at your call detail.. It's unfortunate that mostly people who already know this are the only ones who will see this message.


Posted by: Devilish

CAN YOU F***ING HEAR US VERIZON. HEEEEEELLLLLLLLLOOOOO ANY BODY HOME.............
Use the best tools that you have to market yourself to bring new customers and be a little more creative with your marketing plan to keep your customer happy. You can lock in your customers in for one or two years cause they signed a contract with your damn company so why dont you keep them happy and offer some nice phones, new technology and more that just and yes just phone calls. If I want PTT I will sign up with Nextel and I sure will be happy with that. If I want to call another Verizon number I would call them up not use the PTT cause I hate the way PTT works cause everyone in the room can hear the other person talking.

CAN YOU HEAR ME NOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWW.


Posted by: chefofthefuture

Good call on the PTT, Devilish. PTT is good for construction sites and skiing, that's about it. Otherwise it is the most annoying concept ever, ever, ever. There's nothing like enjoying a nice meal at a restaurant when the person next to you goes BLOOP ... Oh yeah, I'll pick up a video on the way home honey ... BLOOP .. oh, it will be a romantic comedy, I promise... BLOOP... yada yada yada.. BLOOOOP

PTT is so damn annoying.


Posted by: SMP

"You may be right on this, but the need for data and more capacity from cell providers is slipping away more quickly every day. By the time any mobile carrier is able to deploy the next generation of any GSM or CDMA technology, Wi-Fi hotspots will have made such massive inroads into that market that the profit potential from EVDO will be seriously impacted. Except for using yourlaptop while on the train or at the beach, chances are most places we'll be -- hotels, conference centers, etc -- will already have Wi-Fi hotspots to use that are faster than EVDO."

Chef,

Great response you make there. Consider that VZW/Vodafone has already decided to assign 21 billion in cash towards a USA 1xEVDO rollout that has already started in 2 test markets (San Diego & D.C.).

That is a crapload of cash and if they were not going to make profit from it there is no way they would allocate that amount of financial resources to implement it. Is WI-FI faster? Of course it is, however, WI-FI cannot as of yet handle a soft hand off which relates to true mobility.

Both technolgies have their advantages/disadvantages, perhaps you could expand on some points I am missing on. I love using WI-FI at my University, but I also love my 1xRTT connection when I am on the go, it rocks!

Later


Posted by: chefofthefuture

Quote:
Originally posted by SMP

That is a crapload of cash and if they were not going to make profit from it there is no way they would allocate that amount of financial resources to implement it. Is WI-FI faster? Of course it is, however, WI-FI cannot as of yet handle a soft hand off which relates to true mobility.

Both technolgies have their advantages/disadvantages, perhaps you could expand on some points I am missing on. I love using WI-FI at my University, but I also love my 1xRTT connection when I am on the go, it rocks!


Agreed -- there will always be a market for the truly mobile people out there who want data. When you're in the back of a cab and want data, you'll need to go through GPRS, 1XRTT, EVDO, etc.

As I mentioned though, the market for it will shrink significantly because of all of the locales that are deploying Wi-Fi. It's amazingly cheap to deploy a hotspot at a conference center, coffee shop or a hotel... Wi-Fi router, $100... DSL, $100 a month. Charge $5 an hour or whatever and you'll make that money back very quickly. Compare this to the massive technical issues cell providers cope with to provide us with service that works at 65mph.

But the EVDO market will be even more affected because there will be hotspots in places you wouldn't expect right now. It's widely believed that within the next year, we will start seeing Wi-Fi offered on airplanes. Now imagine that every plane, bus, limo, train, subway car, all have hot spots deployed. It will never happen that broadly, but consider that many of these providers are already hurting and looking for extra sources of revenue. Commuter trains-- Metro-North, Metra, BART, LIRR--will undoubtedly have hotspots on them, probably within the next 12-18 months. This will be a massive boon to these operators because it the cost of deployment and maintainance is miniscule compared to their normal capital and operating costs. In the end, companies deploying Wi-Fi are supplied with a lot of extra income and the potential to bring in new customers.

For EVDO, GPRS, EDGE, WCDMA, etc.. the chance these guys have against this is through pricing and convenience. It will be inconvenient to deal with buying time on every hotspot you come to versus just using bluetooth to connect to your phone. The other thing is that to use all of these random hotspots through a normal day might cost you several dollars a day for single use. When you're travelling a lot, this will quickly add up to be more than the $30-$40 a month or so that unlimited data on EVDO will ultimately be priced at. But for those who are in a few locations every day, the train, the bus, the Marriott, the coffee shop, hotspots might be a better deal.

ps - I think one thing worth noting is that DT had amazing foresight to acquire Hotspot.


Posted by: JohnnyK

sweet Nextel impression, chef


Posted by: SMP

[QUOTE]The other thing is that to use all of these random hotspots through a normal day might cost you several dollars a day for single use. When you're travelling a lot, this will quickly add up to be more than the $30-$40 a month or so that unlimited data on EVDO will ultimately be priced at. But for those who are in a few locations every day, the train, the bus, the Marriott, the coffee shop, hotspots might be a better deal.

Thanks for the reply, I do agree that pricing may be the ultimate competitive advantage in the long run. I have heard from several guys in data sales that EVDO will initially only be offered for enterprise data solutions only and the associated costs will most likely range around 200-400 a month.

Obviously, this is all speculative since a company (VZW) cannot really set a price for a service that does not exist. I can say that that it will probably be rather expensive for the average end user to utilize EVDO when it becomes available.

The one technology I find that is continually ignored is TMUWB, time modulated ultra wideband. I know its still going through the long process of FCC approval and is being utilized for military applications, but if this technology hits the market for wireless internet access then all bets are off.

Thanks for the response.


Posted by: indystorm

WOW!!! It's about time someone put this thread up!!! Verizon verizon verizon--- where do I start? Well let's see---- $400 for a startac on a 2yr contract and no offering of phone insurance is a good one- how about no service withing a 5 mile radius of my house for 2--- 3---> no digital service until I get 20 miles away from my house---- What is this?!?!? Cingular---> free phone- full Digital coverage everywhere--- phone insurance!!!!! How bad does Verizon suck? <--- that was 3 years ago---


NOW--> All of my friends who have verizon complain of the poorest CS imaginable.... horrible phones that still break--- (maybe because of their reliance on motorola, which makes **** to begin with) a horrible CDMA technology which gives you pops and clicks in all your calls---- and since they do use cdma you need a pull up antenna which breaks off all to often--- Verizon is a horrible company to do business with--- don't plan on making any calls after 9pm either or else your call will drop due to network busy--- unlike other providers Verizon actually boots people off their network to allow for other users--- What a system huh? Oh yeah- what about the-- "were sorry, all circuits are busy now, please try your call again later" Whats up with that verizon? Can you hear me now???? NO!!! I cannot hear you-- If you want the best go GSM--- Cingular/ATT/T-mobile.....!!!

Jay.


Posted by: frail

Quote:
Originally posted by indystorm
If you want the best go GSM--- Cingular/ATT/T-mobile.....!!!

Jay.


Rants against Verizon are fine, but let's not turn this into a technology debate.


Posted by: PeterB

That wasn't a rant, that was moronic rambling.

Hows that 6 month old GSM network doing?

Oh thats right, it still doesnt work in 60% of CT.


Posted by: AnthroMatt

Quote:
Originally posted by PeterB
That wasn't a rant, that was moronic rambling.

Hows that 6 month old GSM network doing?

Oh thats right, it still doesnt work in 60% of CT.


No kidding. I still have a pretty intense hatred for Verizon after what I went through with them, but even I think that post was just crazy.


Posted by: J3ff

bump hehe


Posted by: fractured

Holy thread resurrection... Was this really necessary? It's a 5 year old thread.


Posted by: J3ff

yeah just for a lil fun...

Maybe show u how far vzw has come!


Posted by: drocpsu

Quote:
Originally Posted by J3ff
yeah just for a lil fun...

Maybe show u how far vzw has come!


how far they've come? People were ranting about $.10 send $.02 receive costs for text messages. Now they're $.20 send/$.10 receive/$.25 pix/vid. I'm failing to see how that's "progress". They disable GPS built-into phones so that they can charge you $10/mo for it. In general, they still don't have a good selection of phones.

However, EVDO data costs have decreased (though it;s still $100+/mo for unlimited everything). The one thing that bothers me the most is that that's the only way to get unlimited data/texts.

I've been with VZW for a while, but I certainly have issues with them. If 99% of my family & friends weren't also on Verizon, I would've switched long ago.


Posted by: grivas3

Quote:
Originally Posted by drocpsu
how far they've come? People were ranting about $.10 send $.02 receive costs for text messages. Now they're $.20 send/$.10 receive/$.25 pix/vid. I'm failing to see how that's "progress". They disable GPS built-into phones so that they can charge you $10/mo for it. In general, they still don't have a good selection of phones.

However, EVDO data costs have decreased (though it;s still $100+/mo for unlimited everything). The one thing that bothers me the most is that that's the only way to get unlimited data/texts.

I've been with VZW for a while, but I certainly have issues with them. If 99% of my family & friends weren't also on Verizon, I would've switched long ago.


Well, if you are serious about switching over somewhere? Go with MetroPCS. That is if your in their area. I mean 4 lines with unlimited voice and text is pretty darn good. I'm with VerizonWireless now. And they suck BIG time! I'm paying $100 for two lines with 700 mins. of voice and that is all I will get for my money. Well they can go down even more. They charge here and there like if there the damn goverment charging taxes. Did you know that the cellular industry is the only industry where they charge $200 early termination fee. Not even the FCC has stepped in to see what the heck that is about. I mean if I don't want a service that I don't need to pay for. I shouldn't have to pay for it period. It's like being in jail. What gives? There just a bunch of sharks. From now on I will only go to a month to month basis. That way if I can't resolve something with a company that is getting my monthly dues for service rendered. I can just walk up and leave. That is a normal business practice. Don't like something? Walk away. Nothing to it. But no. VerizonWireless wants to make sure they are getting a piece of that pay check from you for the next 24 months. So that they can get there car payments made. This carrier is in deep trouble right now. They are actually in the red. They owe so much. I have been with them since they were AirTouch. This time when I see a VerizonWireless cell phone. I will let people everywhere know what is going on. And tell them the great deal about MetroPCS in my local area. So who is laughing now Verizon?




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