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Tilt: Should I jump in, or wait?

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Posted by: curmudgeon

Pretty much thinking it's time to leave VZW--looks like ATT has caught up on voice coverage from when I left Cingular 2 years ago and went to VZW, and, even tho 3G (HSDPA) hasn't quite reached my area, the guy at the ATT store said today they expect it to cover my area (my, that's sounds a bit suggestive) by end of Q1. It has good coverage on a larger town/city about 15 miles north, so that estimate may be acurate. And while at home, I can always use my Wi-fi wireless router for it.

Anyway...

I'm interested in the Tilt. Amazon has it for $199, plus a $50 MIR (comes as 2 "Visa"-type cards). I took the Amazon page into the guy at the ATT store, to see if they would match. Uh-uh. No way. No how. Their price is--wait for it--$399, w/a $100 MIR. So, $399 to get the unit out of the store, and wait forever for those PITA "Visa" cards they use for rebates now, to get it down to the $299 they show as its price.

Problem is, I really like the Tilt. I asked 6 ways from Sunday, was there anything the guy could do to sweeten the deal. He said mgr said no. He also pointed out that Amazon's terms and conditions make it so that, if something goes wrong, I can't take it into an ATT store or call ATT for a switch-out--I have to go thru Amazon for replacement.

Does this sound right? Or was he feeding me a line? Is it true that if it broke, or had the "RED LIGHT OF DEATH" issue I've read about, I'd have to deal w/Amazon? I mean, how does this actually work? According to this guy, I could never go to ATT for warranty issues, I'd have to go to Amazon. Is this true?

And if it were you guys, would you go for the lower price at Amazon and hope for the best, or pay the higher price at the ATT store?

Should I go for it? I really like the Tilt, but is there something better coming soon? I know CES is going on right now; has anything shown up that will be released in the next month or so? I'm pretty much sold on the side-slider form factor--my current Treo 700w's keyboard doesn't have enough room for my Shrek-sized hands.

So I guess this rambling boils down to 2 questions:

1) Should I buy the Tilt from Amazon for the lower price, or from the ATT store for the higher?

2) Should I even go for the Tilt, or is there a better, similar unit in the side-slider, WM6 form-factor coming soon?



Posted by: braindead5400

I've seen lots of great deals on phones from Amazon but I've never gone through and purchased one. If you alter your plan, remove data packages, are late with your bill or anything like that, Amazon will bill you for $250 (there goes the discount). Some of the deals also require special data packages that you may or may not want.

As far as warranty issues go, I could understand you having to return it to them if something is wrong with it in like the first 30 days but beyond that period I find it surprising that you have to go through Amazon and not ATT. That's like buying a Dell from Walmart and having to use Walmart CS and not Dell's.



Posted by: curmudgeon

Quote:
Originally Posted by braindead5400
I've seen lots of great deals on phones from Amazon but I've never gone through and purchased one. If you alter your plan, remove data packages, are late with your bill or anything like that, Amazon will bill you for $250 (there goes the discount). Some of the deals also require special data packages that you may or may not want.

As far as warranty issues go, I could understand you having to return it to them if something is wrong with it in like the first 30 days but beyond that period I find it surprising that you have to go through Amazon and not ATT. That's like buying a Dell from Walmart and having to use Walmart CS and not Dell's.


Yeah, it's weird... That's why I'm wondering if the ATT guy (or his mgr) was feeding me a line to get me to bag Amazon and buy at the ATT store.

Hopefully, someone familiar w/warranty issues at ATT will weigh in and let us know if the ATT guy was fibbing or not.

And again, does anyone know if anything better in the side-slider, WM6 (or better), PDA/touchscreen form-factor is coming in the next month? So far, the specs on the Tilt blow me away--it seems to have just about everything.



Posted by: MDIFILM

You can also chck around stores, like newegg.com (pay about $174.99 and get a $25 rebate later). which is a good deal that I got during thanksgiving 2007, it's way over 30 days and I still loving every minute of it. I did also flash to another rom (dutty's v2 fixed) and so it makes my usage more addicted...

As for whether or not to wait... many had said that new phones are coming out during the 3r or 4th quarter of 2008, so if you wait that long, the price of the Tilt will go down and something new would come out.

Tilt is my first phone that I got within it was released, the other phones I had in my life has been a year later when their prices dropped, what this sold me quickly was due to the $175 price tag, a great investment.

Beware, because it is a wm phone, you will always see a lot of issues with them, so read as much and be prepared to the need to trouble shoot it when it gives you glitches...



Posted by: Guido13

I purchased two phones from Amazon when I moved from Sprint to Tmo in 2004. I got the phones with money back, essentially, so that was nice. I never had a single issue. I just purchased the KRZR and the Tilt, and am waiting for them to arrive. I need to look at how the plans are looked at... depending, it may be worth it to wait a few months to change to the MediaMax plan vs. the $40 PDA plan due to saving $150 from Amazon.

It was even more crazy with Wal-Mart's site, where it was a six month window that they required, and even more rebates.... bringing it down to $99.



Posted by: jerryk

Quote:
Originally Posted by curmudgeon

Problem is, I really like the Tilt. I asked 6 ways from Sunday, was there anything the guy could do to sweeten the deal. He said mgr said no. He also pointed out that Amazon's terms and conditions make it so that, if something goes wrong, I can't take it into an ATT store or call ATT for a switch-out--I have to go thru Amazon for replacement.


Why is this an issue? Amazon has much better service than AT&T. No hassles, no playing 20 questions, pulling batteries to check for damage, etc. Just where do want the replacement sent, and here is an email with a prepaid return label.



Posted by: COFF6000

Look one the walmart website. If you dont like online shopping then you can order it trough the ATT kiosk walmart has because sometimes walmart doesn't have the tilt in stock.



Posted by: curmudgeon

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerryk
Why is this an issue? Amazon has much better service than AT&T. No hassles, no playing 20 questions, pulling batteries to check for damage, etc. Just where do want the replacement sent, and here is an email with a prepaid return label.


Okay, here's the full, official scoop (not picking on jerryk, just his quote comes closest to what I'm about to type):

It occurred to me that--given what a general PITA cell phones are--that Amazon might have a dedicated dept. to deal w/them. After running the gauntlet w/Apu (yes, sorry, I know that's not politically correct, but I deal w/a lot of gadgets, so have called a lot of CS and TS, and am really, really tired of having to repeat each bit of info 16 times because some poor outsourced schmo halfway around the world got stuck answering questions from irritable Americans... Umm, anyway, end of Rant #163.)

Cough. To continue: Yes, Amazon does indeed have a dedicated cell phone department. (If you're interested, the phone # is (866)423-5351.) I explained the situation to the rep, saying that the ATT salesman told me I would have to get warranty service from Amazon.

Here's the official answer:

The Amazon rep said the ATT guy was partly right--for the first 30 days, any problems w/the phone get handled by Amazon. After 30 days, warranty service is handled thru the manufacturer--i.e. HTC. Not ATT. The rep also at first said that I could buy insurance if I was worried about HTC, but then I reminded her that ATT doesn't allow insurance on phones that actually have any real monetary value, just on the cheap phones. She agreed that was correct.

So I got a big chill up my spine when she said that warranty after 30 days would have to go thru HTC. Now perhaps I'm being unfair; after all, I really know nothing about HTC. Perhaps they would provide good warranty service. But my gut says, they are a huge, foreign company, w/no real way for me to get to them, and who knows if they would take care of me or not?

If any of you have any direct experience w/HTC over warranty work, please speak up. But at the moment, I have no idea which way to jump. I did mention to the Amazon rep about the "red light of death" issue, and said that, if they hadn't sold thru their stock on those Tilt's that have that problem, I could end up w/one and have the problem show up after the 30-day window. At the ATT store, at least I know they got a fresh batch of phones. (BTW, the ATT guy said the "RLoD" issue was a software problem.) There is a customer review on Amazon for the Tilt, dated Jan. 5, from an "mcook34", who describes having the "RLoD" issue pretty closely, and the contortions he went thru w/ATT before being told ATT would not help. Here's the link, if you want to read what he says (scroll down a bit till you find it):

http://www.amazon.com/review/produc...nDateDescending

So what would you guys do? Throw the dice, and go w/Amazon? Or pay the higher price at ATT for greater peace of mind?



Posted by: MDIFILM

I was reading at the tilt's page and didn't say anthing stated there on their return policy so I would be very skeptical on it. I then went to Newegg.com and checked their return policy, I felt a bit better (30 days money back, 1 year replacement directly with Newegg.com).

As for the RLoD, it seems there are one type of Tilt that is doing that, and that is probably a smaller amount of people, those who gotten theirs recently had yet to encounter that sort of problem. I myself is very happy with my Tilt since I had it in Nov 2007 and yet to give me any issue.



Posted by: druber

I'm able to upgrade on Jan. 20th. I'm leaning toward getting the tilt. Is there anyway to get the 175 price from newegg without activating a new plan ie: extending my current plan(on a family plan with 2 others)?

Do you expect a price drop anytime soon?

At at&t the upgrade price is 299...is that the best deal I'm going to find?



Posted by: curmudgeon

Quote:
Originally Posted by MDIFILM
I was reading at the tilt's page and didn't say anthing stated there on their return policy so I would be very skeptical on it. I then went to Newegg.com and checked their return policy, I felt a bit better (30 days money back, 1 year replacement directly with Newegg.com).

As for the RLoD, it seems there are one type of Tilt that is doing that, and that is probably a smaller amount of people, those who gotten theirs recently had yet to encounter that sort of problem. I myself is very happy with my Tilt since I had it in Nov 2007 and yet to give me any issue.


Fortuitous that you bring up Newegg--I actually called them today, to check on their warranty policy. These are the things the rep told me. Yes, you are correct, 30 day money back--but w/a 15% restocking fee (unless defective, I imagine). And one-year replacement--but only if everything is intact--phone, packaging, etc. IOW, you cannot cut out the IMEI panel to send in for your rebate, then if the phone breaks later, try to send it back to Newegg for replacement. They wil not take it if something as stupidly irrelevant as part of the box is missing. The rep said, you can either get your rebate and hope the phone doesn't break, or not get the rebate.

She then endured several minutes of me telling her how gymongously dumb that was, and how, by not saying this is their policy on their site, they might actually be liable for false advertising, and maybe in for a visit from the FTC.

After several minutes of me reaming her, she finally got around to mentioning that warranty work can be handled via phone and mail from ATT (but not at an ATT store). I laughed and said you would have saved yourself a lot of grief if you had told me that before I started griping at you. She gave me the direct warranty phone number--NOT the regular CS number--for ATT tech support. (That #, if you are interested, is (800)801-1101. I thanked her, and told her I was going to call that number to verify what she said.

The first tech I spoke to was pretty confused by my question--if I buy from Newegg, an authorized ATT dealer, will ATT replace the phone if it breaks during the warranty period?--and had to go ask a supervisor. When he came back, he said that yes, as an ATT customer, you can call warranty/tech support, and get an exchange via mail.

But he also said I could get lost, stolen and accidental damage insurance. A call to my local ATT store to ask the same thing--can I get insurance?--yielded an answer of "no". I did not mention where the phone might be purchased from, just could I get insurance on a Tilt.

So even tho the ATT warranty tech said they would indeed exchange the phone as long as I was an ATT customer (a comment I found confusing, since what else would I be?), I still have a niggling feeling that I might run into trouble if I did get the phone from Newegg, and tried to get warranty help from ATT.

The ATT warranty/tech guy also said his supervisor said that they would exchange a phone under warranty if bought from Amazon--a comment refuted by that Amazon customer review I cited in my previous post.

So this is sounding more and more like one of those typical cellphone CS/TS things: the answer changes, depending on who you talk to.

I did read thru all the customer reviews at Newegg, as I did at Amazon, and did not come across any that said they couldn't get warranty service. But I also didn't see any posts that said anything about needing warranty service in the first place. Since Newegg buyers tend to be more computer- and gadget-savvy, this may simply be a matter of being more experienced at dealing w/electronics issues.

I'm going to keep reading and researching, but if I don't come across anything terribly negative, will probably order one by week's end. And after I get it, visit the xda-dev forum to get a better ROM.



Posted by: MDIFILM

Quote:
Originally Posted by curmudgeon
Fortuitous that you bring up Newegg--I actually called them today, to check on their warranty policy. These are the things the rep told me. Yes, you are correct, 30 day money back--but w/a 15% restocking fee (unless defective, I imagine). And one-year replacement--but only if everything is intact--phone, packaging, etc. IOW, you cannot cut out the IMEI panel to send in for your rebate, then if the phone breaks later, try to send it back to Newegg for replacement. They wil not take it if something as stupidly irrelevant as part of the box is missing. The rep said, you can either get your rebate and hope the phone doesn't break, or not get the rebate.

She then endured several minutes of me telling her how gymongously dumb that was, and how, by not saying this is their policy on their site, they might actually be liable for false advertising, and maybe in for a visit from the FTC.

After several minutes of me reaming her, she finally got around to mentioning that warranty work can be handled via phone and mail from ATT (but not at an ATT store). I laughed and said you would have saved yourself a lot of grief if you had told me that before I started griping at you. She gave me the direct warranty phone number--NOT the regular CS number--for ATT tech support. (That #, if you are interested, is (800)801-1101. I thanked her, and told her I was going to call that number to verify what she said.

The first tech I spoke to was pretty confused by my question--if I buy from Newegg, an authorized ATT dealer, will ATT replace the phone if it breaks during the warranty period?--and had to go ask a supervisor. When he came back, he said that yes, as an ATT customer, you can call warranty/tech support, and get an exchange via mail.

But he also said I could get lost, stolen and accidental damage insurance. A call to my local ATT store to ask the same thing--can I get insurance?--yielded an answer of "no". I did not mention where the phone might be purchased from, just could I get insurance on a Tilt.

So even tho the ATT warranty tech said they would indeed exchange the phone as long as I was an ATT customer (a comment I found confusing, since what else would I be?), I still have a niggling feeling that I might run into trouble if I did get the phone from Newegg, and tried to get warranty help from ATT.

The ATT warranty/tech guy also said his supervisor said that they would exchange a phone under warranty if bought from Amazon--a comment refuted by that Amazon customer review I cited in my previous post.

So this is sounding more and more like one of those typical cellphone CS/TS things: the answer changes, depending on who you talk to.

I did read thru all the customer reviews at Newegg, as I did at Amazon, and did not come across any that said they couldn't get warranty service. But I also didn't see any posts that said anything about needing warranty service in the first place. Since Newegg buyers tend to be more computer- and gadget-savvy, this may simply be a matter of being more experienced at dealing w/electronics issues.

I'm going to keep reading and researching, but if I don't come across anything terribly negative, will probably order one by week's end. And after I get it, visit the xda-dev forum to get a better ROM.


Thanks for the research, it helps, now I know if I ever have problem, what I would do is just call ATT and if it's still under warranty, I'll just get it replaced (done it before in the past when I got my cell from like BestBuy and got it replaced without any problem)...

Thanks!



Posted by: MDIFILM

Quote:
Originally Posted by druber
I'm able to upgrade on Jan. 20th. I'm leaning toward getting the tilt. Is there anyway to get the 175 price from newegg without activating a new plan ie: extending my current plan(on a family plan with 2 others)?

Do you expect a price drop anytime soon?

At at&t the upgrade price is 299...is that the best deal I'm going to find?


Newegg.com's plan is not for family (at this moment last I checked) and I do not know if you are required to get data plan as well (2 weeks ago, I did a mock up test and I can just need to select a voice plan and can go directly to check out).

Can you upgrade? yes, I did an upgrade, but not for family, but for individual plans. will their price change again? probably, right now it's $50 rebate, so it's more than what I got ($25 cheaper).



Posted by: zerilos

How did you guys get this far in the thread and not discuss Exchange By Mail (XBM)? That # given to you by the Newegg rep is the XBM number!

Simple explanation: As long as your handset is under warranty, you can send ATT your defective phone and they send you a working one. If they deem it out of warranty, you get billed. Run a search if you want to know more about reasons why they'd bill you. I've never had a problem but then again, the last time I used XBM was over 2 years ago.



Posted by: curmudgeon

Quote:
Originally Posted by zerilos
How did you guys get this far in the thread and not discuss Exchange By Mail (XBM)? That # given to you by the Newegg rep is the XBM number!

Simple explanation: As long as your handset is under warranty, you can send ATT your defective phone and they send you a working one. If they deem it out of warranty, you get billed. Run a search if you want to know more about reasons why they'd bill you. I've never had a problem but then again, the last time I used XBM was over 2 years ago.


Well, I think part of the confusion is from that review on Amazon for the Tilt, where the guy said he'd called ATT and, because he bought it from Amazon and not ATT, they (ATT) would not exchange his bricked phone for him.

I do realize that online customer reviews must be taken w/a grain of salt, and there may be more to that person's story than appears. It's just that, whenever you talk to pretty much any of these people at any of these companies, you tend to get slightly-to-wildly differing answers. Does not instill confidence.

I think, in pondering this issue a bit more, that if I had a problem, I would call the XBM number directly--as opposed to first calling regular ATT CS to explain the problem. That might be where part of the problems and confusion comes from: maybe the CS reps either think they aren't supposed to warranty phones bought from online resellers... or is it possible they've been coached not to? The guy at the ATT retail store to whom I spoke said ATT would not exchange a phone if I bought it online--whether I tried at a store or via XBM.

As I said, it seems to depend on whom you are asking.





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