vB Easy Archive - Bell Unlimited Data on Wireless Connection Cards Users Getting Contracts Terminated?

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Bell Unlimited Data on Wireless Connection Cards Users Getting Contracts Terminated?
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Posted by: Spydi

Is anyone else getting the cancellation letters about the Unlimited Data package they signed up for for laptop internet access through the Bell network saying they were using the service excessively and would be cut off immediately. I've recently gotten a letter 2 days before my service was to be cut off stating that I had been using excessive data usage and that the system is running at full load because of it.

Some of my usage details:
Month 1: 350mb
Month 2: 550mb
Month 3: 375mb

After 2 lengthy calls with customer service I still receive the run around that they don't have a set limit but excessive is excessive in their eyes. In addition, apparently excessive is deemed as the amount of data transferred in one sitting, but they still cannot provide me with a hard number as to what is excessive in a per sitting. According to them, I did more than 100mb in one sitting and that put a strain on the network.

I've read a couple reports that others are getting these cancellation reports and that Bell has since removed "Unlimited" service off their website. I especially like the press release that states the service is to be used for large files and business people. Apparently business people cannot receive attachments because that would be excessive usage. http://www.bce.ca/en/news/releases/...9/19/74430.html

Upon writing this they are terminating my account, but I will still be fighting this. Why use the words Unlimited if its no where near that?

Anyone else having the same problems?

Posted by: Bhagwan

Bell is a friggin' joke these days

Posted by: skullan

Wirelessly posted (HTC S640: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows CE; Smartphone; 240x320) Opera 8.65 [en])

This should definitely be sent to the news

Posted by: SuperCM

Are you in the East or the West?

Posted by: dss

I suggest you write bell in a registered letter and carbon copy the CRTC and the media..like the SUN, Toronto Star and others.

There are lots of site whose pages are 3-5 megs a page. 100 megs is really nothing in a sitting on a data card if you go to those sites. Files updates run into hundreds of megs these days.......
So for you to use 300-500 megs a month is not excessive!!!!

Posted by: MacD

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperCM

Are you in the East or the West?

I'd say out West based on his usage.

Posted by: SuperCM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacD

I'd say out West based on his usage.

Although Bell and TELUS have their agreement, I wonder if maybe they still bill each other for usage on their networks? Or maybe when it was agreed upon, it only covers voice and not data? If this is the case, maybe TELUS is billing Bell for Bell users using their networks and the amount of data they use makes them so unprofitable they rather take this action?

Posted by: EricMammoth

Quote:

Originally Posted by dss

I suggest you write bell in a registered letter and carbon copy the CRTC and the media..like the SUN, Toronto Star and others.

There are lots of site whose pages are 3-5 megs a page. 100 megs is really nothing in a sitting on a data card if you go to those sites. Files updates run into hundreds of megs these days.......
So for you to use 300-500 megs a month is not excessive!!!!

A OS X update can be over 1GB for a major one. Excessive usage my @!$

Posted by: dirtyjeffer

go to the papers...they love bad PR stories about Bell...it will be "front page news" for them.

Posted by: TelecomZombie

Telus completes wireless network! Broadband is now available in all of B.C. and Alberta

What this means is that anywhere in B.C. and Alberta where you can access a Telus cellphone signal you can access wireless broadband," Telus spokesman Shawn Hall said .

So you can download large files very, very quickly whether you're in Nakusp or New Denver, Grande Prairie or downtown Vancouver," Hall said.

Non-business users will be able to download songs, or television programs, or send text messages faster than before, Hall said.

SUCK lT up Bell!

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/...38-7687cf18cad8

Posted by: fastcivic416

wtf is bell doing? do the new owners have anything to do with this?

Posted by: Sammy740

The new owners aren't in place yet.

Posted by: XeusTsu

Bell and Telus do still bill eachother for usage. The new owners may not be fully in place, but they already have influence in company policy, direction, and actions.

I just get the feeling that Bell swaps one bad decisions for another some times.

Posted by: d1v3rd0wn

Rogers broadband tried to pull the same crap two years ago with cable Internet. They told people that they were using an excessive amount but could not define what an excessive amount was.

After many many complaints, Rogers realized that it was their legal responsibility to both inform customers what acceptable usage is (therefore a bitcap) and also and most importantly a Usage Tool which meters how many of your bits you have used up.

Bell's 'usage policy' is total crap.

Everyone should DEMAND a usage tool.

Imagine getting pulled over on the Autobahn where there is no speed limit and getting a ticket for speeding. Shame on you Bell

Just look at who the new top guys are - they are old Telus guys looking for any way to make a quick buck.

Posted by: dirtyjeffer

Quote:

Originally Posted by XeusTsu

I just get the feeling that Bell swaps one bad decisions for another some times.

sometimes??

Posted by: kocoman

They do have a usage tool, its the "Unbilled call details" in ecare, but its the hardcaps that are missing. Rogers has both hardcaps and speedcaps

Posted by: d1v3rd0wn

A contract must have specific details. Bell therefore must provide specific details to determine what is and is not acceptable usage.

Posted by: Sammy740

The contract states that acceptable usage is Bell's opinion.

Posted by: d1v3rd0wn

Do we have any lawyers here? From what I recall from business law class in university, a contract can't be vague. If it is vague then it might not be enforceable.

Both sides in the contract must have a clear understanding of what they are getting into. I can't understand how a company can get away with being able to change the terms of the contract at any time, but I as the consumer can't get out of the contract if I am no longer satisfied with the service after the changes.

Everyone should demand specifics from Bell.

Posted by: JustinCredible

It clearly seems this is all due to an unanticipated issue between Telus and Bell. Before this, people were using 5 gigs and more for years on Bell's old UL plans. They probably did not anticipate joe consumers to sign up and use it as a personal internet connection, since they advertised it as a "do business while you're away from your office computer" type of plan for sending files and checking emails.

Obviously many more people (including regular consumers) signed up this time around compared to the UL plan from a few years ago, and this time the speeds are faster and regular consumers started using it for non-business uses like videos and streaming, thus killing Telus' network out here....and now Bell is going after EVERYONE. Not cool. Even low users are now getting targetted thanks to the abusers.

Bell should have done a llittle more market research before launching, and stuck to a 1GB plan. I bet there would be no issues and no sudden 250MB limits like there is now...!

Posted by: SuperCM

Quote:

Originally Posted by i.Fido

It clearly seems this is all due to an unanticipated issue between Telus and Bell.

I wonder why we haven't heard of similar things happening over at TELUS Mobility? They have similar unlimited plans for aircards and even offer unlimited for all their data devices.

Posted by: Sammy740

Maybe because Ontarioians and Easterners use less data than Westerners.

Posted by: EricMammoth

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sammy740

The contract states that acceptable usage is Bell's opinion.

But everybody's wondering.. what IS their opinion??

Posted by: bb147

I thought people got their ETF waived? Shouldn't you be a little happy in a way? You got a huge discount on a data card and you were able to enjoy a short ride, if they charged the ETF AND forced people to cancel, then that's different.

I guess the card won't do you any good... but I don't know, just my 2 cents.

Posted by: Fortissimo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sammy740

The contract states that acceptable usage is Bell's opinion.

I agree w/ the other reply on this, even though I am not a lawyer nor a business law student. Typical big business's style of contract writing for "deals" selling to individual consumers. If a business to business contract is written like this, then this contract would never be signed by any reasonable contract negotiator, and thus no business for the selling party.

I understand that you are merely quoting Bell's policy out loud, but here we might assume that you agree to it also? But any reasonable person can read the above and see how absurd this is. I'd challenge that interpretation of (the English) language should be left to the court of law, if it comes down to it. Bell is not the language god, and cannot unilaterally bastardize a language at will. If so, this is simply trickery and will not pass the court of law.

A contract has to be agreed upon by both sides, and when it comes to a conflict based on the interpretation of the wordings, sure it is unfortunate but then a third party (arbitrator, court of law) is required to sort things out. What you are saying here is that Bell is God, and the other party has no say in it whatsoever. This is called arrogance.

Posted by: frankie5string

Quote:

Originally Posted by d1v3rd0wn

Do we have any lawyers here? From what I recall from business law class in university, a contract can't be vague. If it is vague then it might not be enforceable.

Both sides in the contract must have a clear understanding of what they are getting into. I can't understand how a company can get away with being able to change the terms of the contract at any time, but I as the consumer can't get out of the contract if I am no longer satisfied with the service after the changes.

Everyone should demand specifics from Bell.

Contracts can't be vague? How far in business law did you go? Sure simple business contracts can't be vague - but vague is relative and arguable... get it?

Entire legislation is vague ...

Besides, one thing EVERY carrier contract is NOT vague about is the fact that the contract stipulates that YOU, the USER will be bound by its terms - which can change any time at the discretion of the carrier... They are experts at these sorts of contracts...

You guys keep comparing this stuff to business contracts. This is NOT a business contract. This is a contract to obtain a service you want from someone who has it. You can get it from elsewhere, but you're chosing the deal Bell offers - All the contract requires is that you don't make specific changes. But then again, after about a year, Bell DOES loosen the rope on you - you can make some changes - last I looked, if you're a business and you have some sort of technical service agreement with an institution like a bank that you have NO RECOURSE and you often find execs and techs virtually slashing their wrists to get out of them.

This is not a business contract - think of it more like a "layaway contract" - all you're agreeing to is to stick to your payments, for the term, for the ability to have a phone for 10$... or below unsubsidized retail prices. You want THAT handset - but don't want to PAY for it... and MOST people do not (I'm not talking about the kiddies here who have 500$ to blow on a handset every month)...

If you think the unsubsidized prices are not as high as they are touted to be, look at every US carrier losing money hand over fist for what? Handset deals... That's why carriers are pushing data - they don't make money off of voice plans anymore...

Posted by: Sammy740

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fortissimo

I never said I agreed with the contracts I make my customer sign; however, I do point out that Bell's opinion on certain activities while using an air card are deemed nonappropriate.

Posted by: TelecomZombie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sammy740

Maybe because Ontarioians and Easterners use less data than Westerners.

Not Likely!!

Posted by: mfpreach

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirtyjeffer

go to the papers...they love bad PR stories about Bell...it will be "front page news" for them.

Nah, please don't, I need the merger to go through at $42.5
YA DIGGG!?

Posted by: dirtyjeffer

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfpreach

Nah, please don't, I need the merger to go through at $42.5
YA DIGGG!?

it won't change any of that...the price is already signed off and agreed upon...all they are waiting for is regulatory approval.

Posted by: Bhagwan

Bell should be waiving the ETF and refunding the full price of the air card. Furthermore, they should really be hoping they don't get too much more bad publicity from this fiasco and/or get their a$$es sued

Posted by: EricMammoth

I really don't see the problem in grandfathering the (What I assume to be) relatively few accounts that had unlimited data. If they're making a huge deal about this then something is up..

Posted by: icq2000b

the bell mobility Special Duties Unit is 1-866-313-1086

Posted by: kekko

If this is for real then they are insane...

Rogers is offering 5 GB for $100 per month, I mean that's a comparable network with potentially better speeds in a similar price range to what Bell was offering with a clearly stated reasonable cap of 5 GB...

If they are going to complain about someone using over 250 MB they need to examine real world 2007/2008 usage patterns.

They're not selling service to some old grandpa who sends jokes and pictures via e-mail, and even if they were selling to that demographic they'd probably use over 250 MB too...

Posted by: Bhagwan

Quote:

Originally Posted by kekko

If this is for real then they are insane...

Rogers is offering 5 GB for $100 per month, I mean that's a comparable network with potentially better speeds in a similar price range to what Bell was offering with a clearly stated reasonable cap of 5 GB...

That's the difference between operating off your own network.....or paying to roam on someone else's

Posted by: Sammy740

West employees should just set people up on the $100/1GB plan available to handsets and such. Same price and you get 4x more throughput.

Posted by: Fortissimo

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankie5string

IMHO, this is worse than any contracts out there. Let me explain further:

By signing the 1 / 2 / 3 year contract with a phone service provider (cellphone like Bell Mobility), you agree to pay X amount of dollars a month till the end of the contract, otherwise, in order to get out of it, you might opt to pay Y amount of dollars as ECF. At that point, all fees are up front, like your plan fee, option fee(s), taxes, 911 and let's not forget, SAF.

While in the middle of the contract, the provider (such as Bell Mobility) decides to increase the SAF by $2. (such as the case in BM). The customers who originally agreed to pay X amount of dollars a month till the end of contract suddenly get charged X + 2 a month till end of contract instead. There is also no limit as to what amount of increase is allowed, either in writing in the contract, nor from the regulators (government), and thus, the providers are free to charge any arbitrary amount. If SAF is increased by $20., or even $200. or even $2000., they can.

Now the only wait out with minimal damage is to see what's the least amount to get out of it, either by paying SAF, or paying out the contract, or find someone to take it over.

This kind of system, if determined to be legit (since it is so far), allows for a provider to trick the customers on a "bait and switch" tactic. For example, the front end sales would lure the customers in with a low ball deal, for example, $10. for 1000 minutes plan, which probably would seem like an excellent plan. Even counting an SAF at $8.95 it still seems great, right? What is there to stop the provider to move the SAF to $38.95 3 months after the customer signed the 3 year contract? The customers cannot get out of the contract until he/she pays the ECF which is probably at least $200. to $400. In the end, the provider will get their money to cover the discount for the handset, plus more, while the customer gets stuck with a proprietary handset only usable on Bell.

You tell me that this is a fair contract or not.

Posted by: JustinCredible

As I have always said, I will never sign a contract where there is an SAF involved which is not protected under contract. As we all know, the ONLY thing protected on Canadian carriers is your base voice plan. You could have a $10 plan and $80 worth of options, and they could raise your options to $1000/month and you'd have to pay it or else cancel your options.

Only the $10 voice portion is protected.

Bunk.

Posted by: kekko

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bhagwan

That's the difference between operating off your own network.....or paying to roam on someone else's

But...they've saved billions of dollars by creating reciprocal roaming agreements, and where TELUS doesn't have a network they have to do the same thing for access via BELL towers...

Just because TELUS has more network than BELL and they haven't stepped up to overlay it themselves doesn't mean they should penalize customers who were sold on BELL being "the largest coverage out West" and have no idea about the transparent roaming going on.

Posted by: Fortissimo

I thought both providers (Telus and Bell) have built their own networks in their "non native" territories some years ago and roaming only occurs in rural areas. I remember way back when Bell first came to Vancouver indeed they were strictly roaming on Telus, but that was a long time ago. So I just wonder how many of these roaming incidents occur in rural areas since the population and traffic should be much less. I assume many of those who were terminated are in the urban areas not rural.

Posted by: maxrate

I too have been told that I am using too much. In fact I recieved a telephone call from a nice lady that told me my account was flagged for heavy usage - I remained 'cool' on the phone, until she couldn't tell me what my usage actually was. I asked to speak to a manager and he lied and told me that EVERYONE is being required to change. If I didn't change my account to a capped account (1GB or 2-5GB) account, they would cancel my service.

I mentioned that the only reason I purchased the hardware outright was because of the unlimited plan. I've been a subscriber since the first month they offered the unlimited service. I asked for my history, they could only provide the last three months. First month 134megs, second month 64 megs, and third month (this month) 530 megs. (I remember downloading a few files).

Now I've received a letter (post the 'friendly' telephone call) stating that this is due to excessive use on my part. THis is ridiculous!. I am paying (before 911 and System access fees/taxes etc) $75/month for 'unlimited' service. At the moment for $75 a month, Bell offers up to 5GB of consumption. I explained this to her on the phone (and the manager) and it made no difference. So, I'm paying the same a 5GB user will pay, however I'm using only 10% of that allotment and paying the same price --- hmm, excessive use? slowing down the network? Isn't Bell an ISP? Haven't they had a history of providing telecom services and could have forseen any network slow downs? I'm pissed off - I purchased unlimited (knowing I would never be heavy user) for the peace of mind of not having to worry about excessive bills for the odd occasion I may need to download a lot of data.

What should I do? I've since (as I've been manipulated) switched to the 1GB plan for $65/month - I feel I've been shafted. I'm very upset. I hear about how so many are upset with Bell - I have a history of NOT being a heavy user - just one month I actually *needed* the service, I get treated like this! More of us should get together and try to do something about this. It's just wrong.

Posted by: yeungman

Aren't you the happy Bell customer.

There's nothing you can do. They're definitely giving the shaft to everyone who signed on to the plan. You should have considered refusing to switch; then they cancel your contract and you go to Telus. It seems that Telus isn't as strict about usage and if you read some of the threads in the Telus forum, people use over 3 Gigs with no harassment from Telus.

Man, am I glad I'm with Fido. They never call me for using too much data. Once I was visiting Toronto and used over 3 Gigs in less than a week and my bill stayed exactly the same and no BS about bogging down the network. That being said, Fido data customers got the shaft when they removed US roaming even for customers on contract.

The little guy (us) always loses.

Posted by: WolfDV

Same thing happened to me, used the "unlimited service" for a month, only 2.4gb usage .. they wanted to downgrade me because of overuse abuse.

I said no thanks, and asked for a refund of the service and aircard. which i received.

Next I called up Telus, got them to match my entire plan and then some (connect 75 + regular phone plan + extras) ... also cancelled my bell account for good

So far so good with telus...

Posted by: dirtyjeffer

^^ This is exactly what people should do...the only way to get your point across is with your $$$...accpeting these ridiculous compromises gives Bell the impression "Most people are OK with this, so lets not do any different".

Posted by: dirtyjeffer

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxrate

THis is ridiculous!. I am paying (before 911 and System access fees/taxes etc) $75/month for 'unlimited' service. At the moment for $75 a month, Bell offers up to 5GB of consumption. I explained this to her on the phone (and the manager) and it made no difference. So, I'm paying the same a 5GB user will pay, however I'm using only 10% of that allotment and paying the same price --- hmm, excessive use? slowing down the network?

it is BS any way you look at it...very good point you have made there.

Posted by: WAHWAHWAH

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxrate

I too have been told that I am using too much. In fact I recieved a telephone call from a nice lady that told me my account was flagged for heavy usage - I remained 'cool' on the phone, until she couldn't tell me what my usage actually was. I asked to speak to a manager and he lied and told me that EVERYONE is being required to change. If I didn't change my account to a capped account (1GB or 2-5GB) account, they would cancel my service.

I mentioned that the only reason I purchased the hardware outright was because of the unlimited plan. I've been a subscriber since the first month they offered the unlimited service. I asked for my history, they could only provide the last three months. First month 134megs, second month 64 megs, and third month (this month) 530 megs. (I remember downloading a few files).

Now I've received a letter (post the 'friendly' telephone call) stating that this is due to excessive use on my part. THis is ridiculous!. I am paying (before 911 and System access fees/taxes etc) $75/month for 'unlimited' service. At the moment for $75 a month, Bell offers up to 5GB of consumption. I explained this to her on the phone (and the manager) and it made no difference. So, I'm paying the same a 5GB user will pay, however I'm using only 10% of that allotment and paying the same price --- hmm, excessive use? slowing down the network? Isn't Bell an ISP? Haven't they had a history of providing telecom services and could have forseen any network slow downs? I'm pissed off - I purchased unlimited (knowing I would never be heavy user) for the peace of mind of not having to worry about excessive bills for the odd occasion I may need to download a lot of data.

What should I do? I've since (as I've been manipulated) switched to the 1GB plan for $65/month - I feel I've been shafted. I'm very upset. I hear about how so many are upset with Bell - I have a history of NOT being a heavy user - just one month I actually *needed* the service, I get treated like this! More of us should get together and try to do something about this. It's just wrong.

so you were paying $75 but staying within 1GB...I see this as a poor decision on your part where you were pver spending by $10/month??

Posted by: dirtyjeffer

Quote:

Originally Posted by WAHWAHWAH

so you were paying $75 but staying within 1GB...I see this as a poor decision on your part where you were pver spending by $10/month??

i think you are missing the point...the point is, they said he was abusing the network with his sub 1GB useage, and that he could no longer have the "Unlimited" plan, but he could use the 1GB plan instead...what difference would that make on the network??...all they wanted to do was kick him off the "Unlimited" plan...it is stuff like this angers customers and continues to give Bell a bad name...it is a stupid policy and yet another example of things not being thought through properly in the first place...if they don't have the network resources to offer an "Unlimited" data plan, then don't brag about your network being the best in canada and pull the plan and kick everyone off it a month after it is released...reference this thread in your other thread where you wonder what bell is doing poorly.

Posted by: WAHWAHWAH

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirtyjeffer

oh I got the point and I dont like the policy myself either - but why pay more just to say you have unlimited. Sounds like Bell was trying to save him some money lol

Posted by: dirtyjeffer

Quote:

Originally Posted by WAHWAHWAH

oh I got the point and I dont like the policy myself either - but why pay more just to say you have unlimited. Sounds like Bell was trying to save him some money lol

bell does not try to save a customer money (no company does that).

Posted by: WAHWAHWAH

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirtyjeffer

bell does not try to save a customer money (no company does that).

just happened. He was paying $10 a month extra which was not needed they saved him $120 in a year. Great public relations

Posted by: Sammy740

He was paying $10 more for peace of mind.

Posted by: dirtyjeffer

Quote:

Originally Posted by WAHWAHWAH

just happened. He was paying $10 a month extra which was not needed they saved him $120 in a year. Great public relations

so what happens if he used 2 GB next month??...will he still be saving money?

and i still think you work for bell, only a bell employee would post something as ridiculous as that (no offence to the other "bell" employees in here who also see how ridiculous that statement is).

Posted by: WAHWAHWAH

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirtyjeffer

lol it was a joke man. Lighten up

Posted by: dirtyjeffer

Quote:

Originally Posted by WAHWAHWAH

lol it was a joke man. Lighten up

that's what the little smiley faces are for...you can't always see jokes and sarcasm without them.

Posted by: OpenWave

This issue doesn't seem to apply in Quebec or the eastern provinces. Ontario and out West seem to have ridiculous data usage caps. My uncle has a PC card from Bell because he travels in Quebec often and after asking about his plan and his usage, he showed me a couple of statements where the total usage on average was 15GB/month.

Posted by: Sammy740

Quote:

Originally Posted by OpenWave

This issue doesn't seem to apply in Quebec or the eastern provinces. Ontario and out West seem to have ridiculous data usage caps. My uncle has a PC card from Bell because he travels in Quebec often and after asking about his plan and his usage, he showed me a couple of statements where the total usage on average was 15GB/month.

We've only had one "letter" PC Card customer at my store, to my knowledge, and he used something like 12GB one month and 16GB the next.

He's now on the $100/5GB plan and toning his usage.

Posted by: OpenWave

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sammy740

We've only had one "letter" PC Card customer at my store, to my knowledge, and he used something like 12GB one month and 16GB the next.

He's now on the $100/5GB plan and toning his usage.

What do you mean by one letter customer? My uncle has had this plan for little over a year now, does it make a difference if he's on a corporate plan?

Posted by: Sammy740

Quote:

Originally Posted by OpenWave

What do you mean by one letter customer? My uncle has had this plan for little over a year now, does it make a difference if he's on a corporate plan?

Letter customer = a customer who has been contacted by Bell about their usage.

Yes, it makes a world of difference if your uncle is under a corporate account.

Posted by: OpenWave

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sammy740

Letter customer = a customer who has been contacted by Bell about their usage.

Yes, it makes a world of difference if your uncle is under a corporate account.

Thanks Sammy, I couldn't understand the reason for that. Also I'm pretty sure Eastern provinces as compared to Western ones have some bearing.

Posted by: Sammy740

Quote:

Originally Posted by OpenWave

Thanks Sammy, I couldn't understand the reason for that. Also I'm pretty sure Eastern provinces as compared to Western ones have some bearing.

That's because Bell roams out west compared to using it's native network in the East.

Posted by: OpenWave

Thanks Sammy, nice to have informative guys like you on here.