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Denied at interview because of "counter rules"?

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Posted by: SimplyDrew

I've wanted to work for Cingular/AT&T in some shape or form for years now, and the main set back that has been preventing me from doing so is because of age. When I applied at sixteen online, I got an automatic denial e-mail immediately. Although disappointed, I was sure it was a child labor law conflict that prevented me from getting past that point. Now that I'm almost eighteen, I took a stab at it again online about a week ago. The application process had changed up a bit, but I answered all the questions truthfully and honestly for the position of Part time Retail Sales Consultant at one of the local stores.

One of the first questions was "Are you at least 18 years of age?". I selected "No", but it still let me go through with it all, and didn't send me a denial e-mail. To my surprise, after going through the application and filling out everything, the very next day I got an e-mail from the local store manager wanting to schedule a good time for me to come in for an interview. I was pretty excited, and told her when I could come in. This manager then referred me to another link in which I had to give permission for a background test, answered some additional questions, one of which was oddly "Are you at least 17 years of age?", which seemed contridictary to the previous question in the latter application. After completion, the store manager then e-mailed me back and said that she was eager to meet with me, and wanted me to print off the final copy of the application to bring into the interview.

Fast forward to the day of the interview. I dressed business casual, arrived a little early, and had the requested information in hand. I walk into the store, and there are toddlers running around screaming at the top of their lungs, the other sales consultants acted like they didn't have a clue what they were doing, and it clearly looked like this store needed some new people. The manager comes out, we go back to her office, and she begins the interview process. She begins to look at my application, commented that everything looked fantastic, and then asked what my college plans were. I told her that I was thinking about going to a college a couple hours away, and then she kind of just looked at me with a stare like a deer in headlights. I was confused, and asked if there was something wrong. She said she needed to back up a minute and look everything over again (as it was obvious she didn't look at a single thing that we had been talking about), and then brings up the point that I'm still in high school, and that her hiring me wouldn't work out because of the "counter rules" the company has. It seemed like she was under the impression that I was a senior instead of a junior, but the application clearly showed that the graduation year was 2009, not 2008. I asked puzzled what these "counter rules" were, and she basically said that if for some reason someone called in, and she needed to get ahold of someone to come in, then I was definitely not going to be available, and there was a requirement she had to have so many people working at a time. Fair enough, I think. I can somewhat understand that response. However, I have a couple family members that work retail, in similar atmospheres, and their employers don't necessary always have the option of calling an employee to see if they could come in. Anyone can always just not answer or not be available, so I couldn't really see how that automaticaly put me "out".

I nicely inquired a little further to make sure there was nothing on my application that upset her or made me out to be a bad candidate in her mind. I was still just stunned that she would let me get this far into the processs, as most of the people that I talked to that work at AT&T have said once you get to the interview process you're usually there for a reason. I mean, honestly, she could have looked over the couple of pages in front of her before I got there to not waste her time if she definitely wasn't interested in someone that was A) still in high school (not meeting her "rules"), and B) that is planning on going to college. After telling this story to a couple people that work with the company, that said that if I just said that I was undecided about college, or something along those lines, she probably would have hired me. Those that said that seem to think that all these managers like to hire someone with a 100% assurance they're not jumping ship at any point. Like the question on the application says "Do you believe in staying with a company until you retire?" They definitey want that answer to be "Yes" after experiencing all that. Having all that said, she said that she would highly encourage me to apply for a position wherever I find myself in college, as I'm definitely qualified. However, in the back of my mind I then think, well if you can't take me in high school, I'm sure the answer would be the same for college as well due to the "time" consideration. It all just seemed a bit skewed at the time.

I'm sorry for the mile long story, but I'm just wondering if there is any other option here. This manager is known for being a little two faced, and being difficult to work with at that. There are a couple dealer locations in my area, but I'd prefer to work for a COR store if at all possible. I just find it hard to settle with that she denied me for the reasoning of still being high school, and that she didn't realize this before I came in. It leads me to believe that there was something that she didn't like when I actually came to see her, which doesn't make much sense as I believe I did perfectly fine. Are these "counter rules" the real deal, and can they be such a big deciding factor on a position in sales at a store?


Posted by: SuxBeingU

IMO it was your age. Back when I was a hiring manager we could not hire anyone under 18. I think it has to with Workers Comp insurance and binding contracts, Not sure you can represent one side of a legally binding contract at 17.
Not 100% sure but it might be the reason ans she just didn't know how to address it professionally so she went to the generaic "counter rules" card


Posted by: ATnt-RSC

Sux hit it on the head. You can't work as a rep, because it's assumed by law that you're not old enough to fully comprehend contracts, which is why any contract you sign is voidable, and therefore it is also assumed you cannot interpret a contract and explain it to a customer. It's arbitrary, it's patently false, but it's a longstanding legal bar that no one is overturning anytime soon. That's because for everyone intelligent like you, there's 20 douchebags (and being in high school, you could probably count out 20 by name) that have precisely NO clue.

So stick it out for another year, don't look for loopholes (they won't work), and apply after your 18th. I'll even go further and suggest you wait until you have college and the next few years of your life figured out before getting a job like this. An AT&T job is more than a burger flipping job, not nearly as big league as corporate thinks, but still something of a commitment. But THAT is your decision.


Posted by: SimplyDrew

Thanks for the answers guys, I appreciate it. Under the section of the application that asked when I was available to work, I did put a date a couple days after my birthday in the middle of May. I'd then be 18, so it looks like she could have taken that into consideration and held me until then. By the time training was all said and done, it would probably be around that time. However, like I said, it seems that she failed to look over all my information before I even showed up, so it'd probably be hard for her to take that into consideration in the least.


Posted by: Wiggum

Quote:
Originally Posted by ATnt-RSC
Sux hit it on the head. You can't work as a rep, because it's assumed by law that you're not old enough to fully comprehend contracts, which is why any contract you sign is voidable, and therefore it is also assumed you cannot interpret a contract and explain it to a customer. It's arbitrary, it's patently false, but it's a longstanding legal bar that no one is overturning anytime soon. That's because for everyone intelligent like you, there's 20 douchebags (and being in high school, you could probably count out 20 by name) that have precisely NO clue.

So stick it out for another year, don't look for loopholes (they won't work), and apply after your 18th. I'll even go further and suggest you wait until you have college and the next few years of your life figured out before getting a job like this. An AT&T job is more than a burger flipping job, not nearly as big league as corporate thinks, but still something of a commitment. But THAT is your decision.


there are customer service agents who are under 18, are you telling me they can't put customers on contract?


Posted by: cingtd

I think it comes down to contract laws. Simply put, minors under 18 are not allowed to enter into a contract legally. Keep in mind when you are working as a sales associate you are directly dealing with contracts on a daily basis with customers.


Posted by: classylady78

Personally I think part of the equation is that you are still in High school. We have had plenty of college students at my locations, none that I know of that are full time, but going to college would have nothing to do with it.

If you are in highschool, you are unavailable every morning until you get out of school. They are more willing to hire someone with a more flexible schedule. Sure you can work every night and both days on the weekend, but what about a Wed morning? Personally, I have seen them hire people with schedules like this if they have a ton of experience.

I would wait until you are 18 and out of high school to apply again. I really think they are both the reason why you wouldn't get hired.


Posted by: Wiggum

Quote:
Originally Posted by cingtd
I think it comes down to contract laws. Simply put, minors under 18 are not allowed to enter into a contract legally. Keep in mind when you are working as a sales associate you are directly dealing with contracts on a daily basis with customers.



you either can or you can't it doesn't matter how often it happens.

now that i think about it more, i don't think contract has anything to do with it.

we all know you don't sell a contract to a minor because it's essentially uneforcable and i think this is what clouds peoples judgement. the laws are in place to protect to the minor from signing something they may not have the capacity to understand.

but when/if a minor is selling a service, the other party isn't entering into a contract with the minor. your service contract is with AT&T and all the terms and conditions are spelled out.


Posted by: colione

The reason is because you're going to college a couple hours away. She didn't want to hire you, then have you leaving in 6 months when college started. She would have been in the same situation to hire and train someone new. That's why she backed up when you mentioned college being a couple hours away.

Apply with a store closer to your college.




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