Non-subsidized price?

Originally Posted by cowboy1964

I'm sure that's the price, period. The first iPhone wasn't subsidized.

Originally Posted by Saoirse1916

Seemed pretty clear in the keynote: $199/$299 MAX.

Originally Posted by zephxiii

200 bucks unsubsidized seems way too good to be true, would have been nice though.

Originally Posted by homegeek

I dont know why anyone thinks it will be different then the first one. The price will be 199/299. You will probaly have to extend your contract for 2 more years but there will not be any other prices unless you buy it from someone else. Why would they change it from the first one. They are making money from activations and service.

Originally Posted by homegeek

I dont know why anyone thinks it will be different then the first one.

Originally Posted by didefresh2006

I wonder if they'll let us use our FAN accounts on these now......

Originally Posted by mobil1

I am skeptical because they didn't announce a price reduction on the iPod Touches. Why would Apple undercut one of their current flagship products?

Originally Posted by spleck

I'm sure the $199 is subsidized price, meaning worst case you pay $200 ETF + $199. I imagine there will be a special case for customers that have the current iPhone and want the 3G iPhone--unless they anticipate the $10 extra/month charge enough to cover it.

If they let us use FAN, then I'll get one.

Originally Posted by mobil1

199/299 HAS to be the carrier price with a NEW 2-year contract. I am predicting 399/499 retail form Apple stores.

Originally Posted by Rodville

I don't see how you guys think it subsidized. They have not done it that way before why change they way it's handled now.

Originally Posted by Rodville

I don't see how you guys think it subsidized. They have not done it that way before why change they way it's handled now.

Originally Posted by bgreen965

It could always be $199/$299* after mail in rebate with proof of activation...

Originally Posted by mobil1

We need to look at this from a business sense...

iPod touch prices are 299/399 for 8gb and 16gb respectively. Selling the iPhone 3G for 199/299 RETAIL (unsubsidized) would be undercutting iPod Touch prices by $100, there by killing their iPod Touch sales.

199/299 HAS to be the carrier price with a NEW 2-year contract. I am predicting 399/499 retail form Apple stores.

Originally Posted by pig snot

You can fully expect the following price adjustments to the ipod touch sometime between July 1-11, to fall inline with the new iphone prices.

8gb: Retired
16gb: $199
32gb: $299

Originally Posted by 1G-Drew

I agree -- with $200 instant activation credit.


BTW the price being the same at Apple or AT&T doesn't mean it's not subsidized. The real question is whether you can get the low price, not sign up for at&t service and still have it work *at all*. I'm guessing that if they don't have some sort of activation credit then the locking is going to be even stronger so that AT&T gets back the subsidy.

Originally Posted by tiguy99

^ ^ Never say never!!!

Originally Posted by pathy5025

I just listened to the att call. My guess is that they will allow everyone to re-up their contracts, regardless of where you are in your upgrade eligibility. Meaning if you bought one last month, you can get get another one in July and start your two years then. This would be in-line with the rebate for the early adopters last time. If they don't, not a single (non-jailbroken) iphone owner can upgrade until December 2008. It's 18 months on a 24 month contract I think (AT&T reps please verify)

Originally Posted by pathy5025

I just listened to the att call. My guess is that they will allow everyone to re-up their contracts, regardless of where you are in your upgrade eligibility. Meaning if you bought one last month, you can get get another one in July and start your two years then. This would be in-line with the rebate for the early adopters last time. If they don't, not a single (non-jailbroken) iphone owner can upgrade until December 2008. It's 18 months on a 24 month contract I think (AT&T reps please verify)

Originally Posted by SimplyDrew

Where did you listen to the call at? Link, please?

Originally Posted by RF9

According to Engadget, you can not leave the Apple store or AT&T store without activating the phone.
The $199/$299 says "with 2 year contract" and according to the AT&T press release they'll be losing a ton of money on subsidies.

So that begs the question. What if you're a current customer already under contract and not eligible for an 'upgrade discount' which usually gets you an unsubsidized price.

Let's assume $199/$299 is the max price period. Then how does this work with the contract?
What if I bought one for $199, I sign a 2 year, 1 month later it I break it or lose it and I have to buy a new one. What will the price be? I can't imagine they'd let me buy a new one at $199 and just re-new my contract again.

That doesn't follow the standard subsidy/contract model they have right now.

I knew $199 was too good to be true.

Originally Posted by ivwshane

The details are fuzzy but it sounds like they will have a full retail price point BUT it will still require a contract

Originally Posted by british_boy86

Its Steve bloody Jobs lol, the guy always knows what hes doing.

Originally Posted by RF9

Canceling your contract doesn't affect your credit rating. Well it shouldn't, and if it did I believe you have legal recourse. As long as you pay the EFT bill they send you ($175) along with any other fees you racked up ($35 activation fee, etc.) The only time they can report you to a credit bureau is if you fail to pay your bill or pay it late.
When you sign up for service, they do a credit check. That credit check shows up on your credit as an inquiry.

So the only way I can see this negatively affecting you is if you wanted to do it repeatedly. For one, there might be a lot of inquiries from AT&T on your credit? But also AT&T may have their own list and deny you service if you've started/quit too many times.

I believe this post here (on another forum) is pretty right on the money. There will not be a no-contract sale of the iPhone, at least not in the US with AT&T. But you will get it for a subsidized or non-subsidized price depending if you've taken an equipment discount within about the last 18-24 months (varies.)

Originally Posted by RF9

There's no way they can keep you from breaking the contract. Everyone would be stupid to sign a contract that says you owe AT&T for 12 full months of service ($500-$1000) whether you use it or not. I certainly would never sign such a thing.

Originally Posted by ivwshane

The details are fuzzy but it sounds like they will have a full retail price point BUT it will still require a contract

Originally Posted by 1G-Drew

That sounds like the worst of both worlds.

I can understand why they won't give another subsidy to someone who "spent" it recently on some other phone. But then there should be no contract extension--it should run until the end of that original contract, just like if you lose your phone and have to buy a new one at full price.

Originally Posted by CocheseUGA

Then you don't get the new phone. It's a pretty simple concept.

The government wants corporations to offer ETFs for cell phone service, but there's nothing to say that they can't hold one of their phones hostage.

I see no legal standpoint where they couldn't have the ETF for this plan (and the 3G phone would be the only one to use it) be the entire contract price.

I also see no reason why they wouldn't limit sales to a SSN to one a year, unless you bring in your broken one (or they can brick the old one via software).

For the average consumer, this isn't important. It won't matter. What Apple and AT&T are trying to do is to punish those that want to use them on other networks. Would an ETF of $1000 not be fair?

Or write it that those who want to break their contract must return the phone. Pretty simple, no?

Originally Posted by pig snot

Are you even listening to what you are writing? Im not going to take the time to pick your whole thing apart, but will say there are several laws already in place regarding ETF's. The simple fact is the absolute most it would cost for the 3g iphone free and clear is $375, $200 to buy the phone and $175 to break the contract.

Originally Posted by pathy5025

Credit request from phone/cable companies are a "soft" inquiry, it does not affect your rating or score no matter how many times they hit the database. Cars, loans, and houses are "hard", they do drop your score a little each time, and even more if you there are a bunch in a row.

I agree that the ETF will not change, they are under a ton of pressure from congress. The major carriers changed the ETF rules recently by themselves so that congress wouldn't force there hand. I also believe that there has to be a "retail" price somewhere for lost or stolen phones.

I'll bet that the new contract rules will achieve the desired outcome for AT&T, ending (or at least, minimizing) the cottage industry of jailbreaking and reselling.

Originally Posted by CingularWRX

Why would they need a "retail" price for lost/stolen phones? You simply go back into the store, resign the agreement for 2 years, and get an activated phone to leave with. You are able to resign with the iPhone at any time, no need for retail pricing!

Originally Posted by CingularWRX

Why would they need a "retail" price for lost/stolen phones? You simply go back into the store, resign the agreement for 2 years, and get an activated phone to leave with. You are able to resign with the iPhone at any time, no need for retail pricing!

And you can bet there is absolutely NO way that this is going to curb the unlocking/reselling of these phones. Sure it may die down right when the phone is released, but give it a week or two. There is always someone smarter hacking away in a dark room somewhere.

Originally Posted by CocheseUGA

Are you even reading what I'm writing? If there's a law preventing them from making a single phone having a bigger ETF, then post it.

Otherwise, shut your hole.

Originally Posted by pig snot

Ok why dont you just put your money where you mouth is, ill give you 10 to 1 odds, I put up $1,000 and you put up $100 we transfer to a respected 3rd party that the iphone ETF will not be higher than any other ATT phone.

Originally Posted by pig snot

Ok why dont you just put your money where you mouth is, ill give you 10 to 1 odds, I put up $1,000 and you put up $100 we transfer to a respected 3rd party that the iphone ETF will not be higher than any other ATT phone.

Originally Posted by pathy5025

Lets say I am out of contract today. I go get a "free" phone from AT&T and lose it down a storm drain, I cannot turn around and get another free phone.

I completely agree that the new phone will be hacked very quickly. The difference this time is that EVERY iphone sold in the US will have a contract associated with it. That was not the case with the first version. People may still sell them on ebay, but someone somewhere has a two year contract their bound to.

Originally Posted by RF9

The contract isn't bound to the iPhone, it's just a contract on your account regardless of what phone you have. I don't know if that's what you (pathy) meant or not.
Point being, I could but an iPhone, re-new my contract, then a month later sell it and switch back to my old phone (or buy a different one at full price) and it's just like selling any other used phone. But whoever bought it has it contract-free (and hackable.)

Kind of like selling a used gun. Someone can go commit murder, but it's not my gun anymore.

Originally Posted by CocheseUGA

I'm discussing can and can't, and you've switched to will and won't.

The premise was very simple: there is no law or congressional pressure that would not let the company have different rules and contracts for this phone. I challenged you to prove me otherwise. You still haven't.

Until you can meet that very basic premise, how am I supposed to believe you have that kind of money to wager?

It's a shame, too. It's illegal, or I'd love to take your supposed money.

Originally Posted by faroqui

I just spoke to a rep. at ATT and he said if you purchase the phone and cancel the contract w/i a timely manner (3 days i assume) you only pay the 175$ ETF and the 199$ for the phone. I know this has been said before, but other people thought you have to pay for the first month service etc etc and I was told you don't. But, I the rep. didn't know if the disable the phone with the IMEI# or w/e.

Originally Posted by CocheseUGA

While this will probably turn out to be true, I think it's a bit early to rely on specifics from anyone besides the PR office at AT&T. They are alwasy the last to get specifics.

Originally Posted by pathy5025

Credit request from phone/cable companies are a "soft" inquiry, it does not affect your rating or score no matter how many times they hit the database. Cars, loans, and houses are "hard", they do drop your score a little each time, and even more if you there are a bunch in a row.

Originally Posted by superlatives

Actually, I had heard that the REVERSE is true.

Credit reporting agencies EXPECT consumers to shop around for mortgages and car loans from different vendors to get the best rate; hence, multiple hard inquiries from those lenders don't detract. If they did, the bank which first checked your FICO would always give the best rate.

Credit card, cell phone companies, etc. DO detract. Imagine a person applying for ten credit cards at the same time. Or ... a person trying to set up 50 iPhone accounts at AT&T. What do you think the reporting agencies will make of that?

Also, a "soft" hit is when someone requests your credit history WITHOUT getting your express permission each time. Example: your CC company who may give you a surprise balance increase, or another CC company who wants to pre-qualify you, or your mortgage bank who checks your history once a year. Since it's someone who didn't get your permission "explicitly" (you allow your CC company to check your history whenever), that's "soft" and doesn't detract your score.

A 'hard" hit is when YOU explicitly give a new lender permission to get your history. Like a NEW credit card company. Or AT&T when you want to set up postpaid iPhone service.

Currently, consumers generally get TWO "hard hits" in a 12 month period without hurting your score. More than that, and it does.

Originally Posted by superlatives

Actually, I had heard that the REVERSE is true.

Credit reporting agencies EXPECT consumers to shop around for mortgages and car loans from different vendors to get the best rate; hence, multiple hard inquiries from those lenders don't detract. If they did, the bank which first checked your FICO would always give the best rate.

Credit card, cell phone companies, etc. DO detract. Imagine a person applying for ten credit cards at the same time. Or ... a person trying to set up 50 iPhone accounts at AT&T. What do you think the reporting agencies will make of that?

Also, a "soft" hit is when someone requests your credit history WITHOUT getting your express permission each time. Example: your CC company who may give you a surprise balance increase, or another CC company who wants to pre-qualify you, or your mortgage bank who checks your history once a year. Since it's someone who didn't get your permission "explicitly" (you allow your CC company to check your history whenever), that's "soft" and doesn't detract your score.

A 'hard" hit is when YOU explicitly give a new lender permission to get your history. Like a NEW credit card company. Or AT&T when you want to set up postpaid iPhone service.

Currently, consumers generally get TWO "hard hits" in a 12 month period without hurting your score. More than that, and it does.

Originally Posted by faroqui

I just spoke to a rep. at ATT and he said if you purchase the phone and cancel the contract w/i a timely manner (3 days i assume) you only pay the 175$ ETF and the 199$ for the phone. I know this has been said before, but other people thought you have to pay for the first month service etc etc and I was told you don't. But, I the rep. didn't know if the disable the phone with the IMEI# or w/e.

Originally Posted by sportsfreak2159

I thought that you had to return the device if you canceled before 30 days? no ETF

Originally Posted by pathy5025

Actually I think we were saying the same thing, but I believe that Att would be soft. I know comcast is for a fact. I'm pretty sure other utilities are, as are things like pricey gym memberships. Credit cards can be both, if you apply, I think that's a hard hit like you said. I had one of those not-so-free credit monitor things. For a year anyway, I had my score emailed to me every week with a report of who was accessing. Long list of credit card "data-mining" soft hits every time.

Originally Posted by faroqui

I just spoke to a rep. at ATT and he said if you purchase the phone and cancel the contract w/i a timely manner (3 days i assume) you only pay the 175$ ETF and the 199$ for the phone. I know this has been said before, but other people thought you have to pay for the first month service etc etc and I was told you don't. But, I the rep. didn't know if the disable the phone with the IMEI# or w/e.

Originally Posted by Mark Booth

Everything I've read elsewhere states that, if you cancel in less than 30 days, you MUST return the phone or pay a HEFTY retail price for the phone. (Presumably, that hefty price will be much larger than the ETF.) And if you cancel AFTER 30 days, you just pay the ETF.

Originally Posted by pathy5025

Lets say I am out of contract today. I go get a "free" phone from AT&T and lose it down a storm drain, I cannot turn around and get another free phone.

Originally Posted by Xarlon

From Reuters http://www.reuters.com/article/mark...annel=0&sp=true

This is all too confusing. The report implies that you can buy the phone but activate it later. Or will they make you sign the contract in the store and activate it later. I just can't see hundreds of people standing in line while each one tries to decide which plan and options to buy. Perhaps they have a kind of prenuptial that ties you into a contract before you leave the store, but allows you to choose which one and activate at a later date? Or are they going to allow the gift option. Why would they have a penalty for not activating if you've already left the store with phone activated?

Originally Posted by Mark Booth

NOBODY is walking out of an Apple or AT&T store with an iPhone 3G that hasn't been activated (I'm talking about the US here).

The leaked AT&T internal memo CLEARLY states that the return period will be expanded to 30 days but, if you cancel the contract within those 30 days, you MUST return the phone (no exceptions!). Under no circumstances will you be allowed to keep it. If you "lost it", then I'm sure there will be some sort of full-retail charge for the phone. (I'm guessing that will be in the $500-$600 range.)

The leaked AT&T memo also CLEARLY states that, after 30 days, you simply pay the ETF. At that point, the cost would be phone cost ($199 or $299) + ETF (some are assuming it will be $175, I'm betting it will be higher!) + Activation Fee (the iPhone 3G is being treated like any other SmartPhone now, so you can be certain there will be an activation fee) + One month of service (minimum $70):

$199 + $175?? + $36 + $70 = $480

Bottom line: Those that want to acquire an iPhone 3G simply for the purpose of unlocking it to use on another carrier, it is going to cost you AT LEAST $480 plus tax.

Mark

Originally Posted by RF9

Originally Posted by CocheseUGA

I say have a flat $30 contract cancellation fee, and your ETF be the balance of the retail price of the phone. Pro-rated of course. Or, you return the phone for another $20.

It's simple, it's fair, and really only hurts those people trying to get expensive phones for cheap.

You cancel your iPhone contract a month in, you'd pay $30+$383.33 (assuming $600 value, $200 sub price, and equal valuation over the course of a two-year contract). Or, you return the phone and pay $50.

I think my math is right.

Originally Posted by CocheseUGA

<snip>
I think my math is right.