vB Easy Archive - "AT&T has not determined the price of the 3G device for non-qualified upgrades."

Pages: 1

"AT&T has not determined the price of the 3G device for non-qualified upgrades."
(Click here to view the original thread with full colors/images)

Posted by: kwietstorm

Any guesses on what the price will be?

I started new service in December. I assume it has to be less than the ETF fee.

Posted by: wacktool

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwietstorm

Any guesses on what the price will be?

I started new service in December. I assume it has to be less than the ETF fee.

I fail to see your logic.. If the cheapest iphone now is 199, and the ETF is 175 (minus 5.00 after each month).
ETF

Seems all the people that cant think came out tonight. Sorry to be crass, but these forums are full of blah latley.

Posted by: Cingular21

As much as I hate to say it, I could see AT&T not offering the 3G iPhone to people that are still in their two year contract since you HAVE to get the phone activated in the store before you can use it. I hope this is not the case.

Posted by: kwietstorm

Quote:

Originally Posted by wacktool

I'm talking about the additional fee for non-qualified upgrades. Not total price.

I assumed that was pretty obvious but you know what that say about people who assume.

It will make an *** out of u not me.

Posted by: N.Y. Johnny

I don't think AT&T will embrace us for being early adopters or pioneers in the iPhone universe.

Its going to be buy it at FULL PRICE and SIGN for the NEW 30 plan Plus your voice. End of questions. Theyre not doing a trade in program or they're not subsidizing you if you have the old one.

Posted by: toomer

Quote:

Originally Posted by N.Y. Johnny

I don't think AT&T will embrace us for being early adopters or pioneers in the iPhone universe.

Its going to be buy it at FULL PRICE and SIGN for the NEW 30 plan Plus your voice. End of questions. Theyre not doing a trade in program or they're not subsidizing you if you have the old one.

The leaked memo story over on boygeniusreport.com would seem to disagree with you on that.

"Note: When the 3G device launches, all active postpaid customers in good standing with a 2G iPhone will be eligible to receive the qualified upgrade pricing for a 3G device regardless of service tenure. (Customers that would not otherwise be eligible due to tenure will be made eligible at launch)."

Posted by: damnyooneek2

Quote:

Originally Posted by N.Y. Johnny

they will upgrade people who already have an iphone since theyre not losing money from the original iphone. everyone paid full price for their original iphones and even paid for them for service. signing them up would just mean they can charge them more the data service and a longer contract and thats what they want.

Posted by: superlatives

Quote:

Originally Posted by damnyooneek2

Actually, AT&T will be SAVING money.

All 1st gen iPhone customers who get moved to the "new" 3G device WON'T be subect to the Apple / AT&T revenue sharing scenario.

Posted by: mobilehavoc

If you currently have AT&T service and NOT the iPhone 2G you will only be able to upgrade to the iPhone 3G if you're eligible for upgrade...or after the first few months. AT&T is still recovering its subsidy from you and also wants new customers (From other carriers) before it even bothers with you.

Posted by: locovic2007

this whole idea of not being able to upgrade even if you already are with att is p!$$!N me off... why would they do this... damnnn!!

Posted by: nickmil

Since when would a company who SELLS a product, be unwilling to SELL said product to anyone???

The memo has already been posted... They simply have not yet determined the price for non-qualified upgrades.

That is all.

Posted by: ivwshane

Quote:

Originally Posted by locovic2007

this whole idea of not being able to upgrade even if you already are with att is p!$$!N me off... why would they do this... damnnn!!

Because that's the industry standard.

Posted by: BiffWebster

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivwshane

Because that's the industry standard.

If that is the case...then so be it. The thing that really irks me is that this information was never mentioned today. The fact that people even know about this is due to a supposed leaked internal memo from AT&T. If nothing else I would like to have had Apple or AT&T at least acknowledge the fact that they haven't made final decisions on pricing or whatever....but at least give us something instead of just ignoring it.

Posted by: Wide_opeN

Yeah, it'll be interesting to see how this one plays out. Other than the new phone itself, I reallyyyy need to be convinced to make the switch from the old one!?

Posted by: tks989

is there such a thing as one year contracts? for att?

Posted by: killadingo

I'm curious how my situation will play out as I was eligible for an upgrade in February but returned my phone within the 30 days. Unfortunately, the system now shows that I am not eligible for an upgrade and every rep (at the Premier online store) that I've spoken to says the system can't handle setting my account up for an upgrade retroactive to my return date. They have, however, placed numerous notes on my account stating that I SHOULD be eligible because I returned the phone.

Since the new iPhone must apparently be purchased and activated in-store, I am curious to know if the notes from AT&T Premier Online show up throughout the system at either the AT&T retail stores or possibly at the Apple stores. I will be pretty bummed if I show up as ineligible for an upgrade because their system can't handle returns properly.

Posted by: nickmil

I have a feeling ***and this is just a guess*** that Apple would not have agreed to perform in-store activations if AT&T insisted on having an iron-clad upgrade policy. It seems like it would cause WAY too many headaches especially on launch day. Most people have no clue what their upgrade status is. They just want a new shiny-shiny. Therefore, Apple clerks researching every single person's AT&T account would be a nightmare with lines of people waiting. They are too smart for that. However, I can't see AT&T letting someone who just RECENTLY signed a contract and got a subsidized smartphone get an iPhone at the subsidized rate simply for the convenience of activation. It's been said already, but this will be interesting to see how it plays out.

Posted by: eimajuno

Quote:

Originally Posted by nickmil

I have a feeling ***and this is just a guess*** that Apple would not have agreed to perform in-store activations if AT&T insisted on having an iron-clad upgrade policy. It seems like it would cause WAY too many headaches especially on launch day. Most people have no clue what their upgrade status is. They just want a new shiny-shiny. Therefore, Apple clerks researching every single person's AT&T account would be a nightmare with lines of people waiting. They are too smart for that. However, I can't see AT&T letting someone who just RECENTLY signed a contract and got a subsidized smartphone get an iPhone at the subsidized rate simply for the convenience of activation. It's been said already, but this will be interesting to see how it plays out.

I am thinking the same thing. With all the other products that Apple sells (Computers, iPods, Software) do you really think they want the employees taking time to activate phones. I really hope that this is just a rumor and not the case.

Posted by: sportsfreak2159

Guys...why is everyone forgetting what happened with iphone 1!!!! If u had ATT (like i did) You simply EXTENDED your contract to two years...guys, it was only a year ago. this is probably how it is going to be

Posted by: ebrunn

Quote:

Originally Posted by nickmil

Apple clerks researching every single person's AT&T account would be a nightmare with lines of people waiting.

Thats exactly whats gonna happen. Guess Apple is gonna have to train their staff like Att employees now and not Apple employees. The whole home activation process was such a good idea with the first iPhone. Suckes they have to screw it up.

Posted by: nickmil

Quote:

Originally Posted by sportsfreak2159

Guys...why is everyone forgetting what happened with iphone 1!!!! If u had ATT (like i did) You simply EXTENDED your contract to two years...guys, it was only a year ago. this is probably how it is going to be

The difference is that this version is subsidized by AT&T. That's the cause for concern for many people.

Posted by: Wide_opeN

I think that AT&T just TOOK back a little control in this relationship.

Unlocked phones in the U.S meant that AT&T was loosing tons of money.

I say kudos for AT&T, Apple has to have someone put them in check.

Posted by: hlysmksbtmn

Quote:

Originally Posted by tks989

is there such a thing as one year contracts? for att?

yes, if you're on a corporate rate plan.

Posted by: sportsfreak2159

Quote:

Originally Posted by nickmil

The difference is that this version is subsidized by AT&T. That's the cause for concern for many people.

Well...worry no more my firends..

http://gizmodo.com/5014748/confirme...-3g-iphone-free

"What about everyone else? If you signed a 2-year contract with AT&T when the iPhone came out (which you pretty much had to), you'll have to sign another new 2-year contract to score a new iPhone 3G. The good news is that AT&T will allow you to overwrite your old contract with your new contract. In other words, you're just locked into another 2 years, not 3."

Posted by: Mark Booth

AT&T just took back a LOT of control of the relationship! And I guarantee you it is partly (maybe even mostly) because so damn many iPhone's never got activated on AT&T's network. With the new arrangement, at minimum, AT&T will get back the ETF for those that want to just walk away, unlock their new iPhone 3G, and use another carrier.

And, yes, AT&T's CURRENT ETF is $175. But where have they said it will stay that "low" for the iPhone 3G? I see them making it more like $250 or so. We'll see.

As for current iPhone owners (on AT&T) upgrading to the new iPhone 3G... I can also guarantee you that AT&T will JUMP at the chance to let you renew your contract with them for two more years. They won't charge you an ETF on your current contract because A) You will be giving them an extra $10 per month going forward, and, B) They won't have to give Apple any further portion of your monthly fees.

Folks, this is a Win-Win for AT&T. And, due to the number of iPhones 3Gs Apple will now sell (with a nice subsidy kickback from AT&T as well), it is a Win-Win for Apple too.

Bottom line.... we (the consumers) are going to be spending MORE money than we were before.

Mark

Edit: I was typing my message when sportsfreak posted his above me. And, if the article he links is accurate, it proves my point. AT&T is JUMPING at the chance to have you switch to a new iPhone 3G!

Posted by: nickmil

Quote:

Originally Posted by sportsfreak2159

This quote, while prevalent to many, does not take into consideration those who had the patience to resist purchasing the first iPhone. Of course they will just overlay a new 2 year agreement from the original iPhone customers. They didn't subsidize that hardware. It doesn't cost them anything. The complicated situations are those of long-time AT&T customers who are in the middle of contracts which have subsidized hardware (Blackjacks, Blackberry, etc).

This could all be cleared up if AT&T would just make a clear formal announcement. It's not like they haven't been prepared for the announcement for crying out loud.

Posted by: locovic2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by sportsfreak2159

That is only if you have an iphone allready in which case no matter what, you have the option of upgrading with the set price... The worrying is not about that, its about what if you have a contract allready and you are not eligable for an upgrade what then? what is the pice, is it going to be the same or a lot higher. I personally think they should just let us restart our 2 years and get over it. I mean they lock us in for more time and apple gets nothing further on.

Posted by: sportsfreak2159

Quote:

Originally Posted by locovic2007

What are you talking about...its very clear..If you signed a two year contract...you jsut have to extend it. They are just giving an example of someone who bout the iphone at lanuch date and got stuck with the 2yr contract. many ppl are still in contract whodont have iphones...the same rule applies...

Posted by: XFF

Quote:

Originally Posted by nickmil

Actually, current iPhone customers would have used their subsidy on something else along the way. Since getting the 1st gen iPhone didn't affect upgrade eligibility, those customers typically got some other subsidized device and sold it for a profit (or kept it as a backup) when they were eligible for an upgrade. My point is that just because you're a 1st gen iPhone user with AT&T doesn't mean you didn't use your subsidy. If they extend current iPhone owners special privileges in regards to upgrading to the iPhone 3G it is not because those customers are automatically eligible to upgrade, but rather to reward their loyalty to Apple and AT&T.

Posted by: jimmirehman

I dont know what everyone is talking about, Steve said FLAT OUT... iphone 3G is $199 PERIOD. Apple never messes with pricing and AT&T wont either... 1st Gen iPhones were priced by Apple and AT&T didnt budge on the price... this will be the same situation. The only difference will be that you will have to extend your contract. If a $200 iPhone all of the sudden makes TONS of AT&T customers want to upgrade to the phone and extend their contracts even if you are only a 2 month old customer that is still in AT&T's favor, they will have you for 2 more months... now imagine if this continues each year... i will gladly remain an AT&T customer for LIFE if every June/July, i can spend $199 and get a BRAND NEW phone from Apple. This is probably the most genius idea yet to come to the cell phone industry and no one sees it, because REALLY everyone wins! It is perfect

Posted by: kyosuke

my friend told me when people upgraded at ATT they just rewrote the 2yr contract not extend for another 2. which means walk in buy a phone and you just bought a phone yesterday your contract restarts the day you upgraded it from that day of a 2yr period

Posted by: hibachi

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyosuke

my friend told me when people upgraded at ATT they just rewrote the 2yr contract not extend for another 2. which means walk in buy a phone and you just bought a phone yesterday your contract restarts the day you upgraded it from that day of a 2yr period

as stated before, that's because you weren't getting discounted on the phone. your right to passage for the 1st gen was your cash for the full price and your signature. With the iphone 3g, at&t is taking a hit for you by making the phone cheaper but also making you subscribe to its services. just like us folks who paid $99 for our blackjack 2's instead of paying the retail $349.99, we gotta live up to our end of the deal now.

just pisses me off that if i were to go ahead and just pay the ETF+sale price, i'm still having to pay for the $10 extra a month.

I'm sticking with my blackjack 2 and my $15 unlimited media net plan i guess.

Posted by: wacktool

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwietstorm

T

That isnt what you asked, so try again ***

Posted by: Cell2Be

I do not think this is true. I bought the iphone on the second day of release and today I can walk to any at&t store and upgrade to a different phone with upgrade credit. I was just curious a month ago and was looking at the LG Vu and they pulled my account and told me I was eligible for the discounted rate on the phone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mobilehavoc

If you currently have AT&T service and NOT the iPhone 2G you will only be able to upgrade to the iPhone 3G if you're eligible for upgrade...or after the first few months. AT&T is still recovering its subsidy from you and also wants new customers (From other carriers) before it even bothers with you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mobilehavoc

Posted by: chriskurn

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmirehman

I dont know what everyone is talking about, Steve said FLAT OUT... iphone 3G is $199 PERIOD. Apple never messes with pricing and AT&T wont either... 1st Gen iPhones were priced by Apple and AT&T didnt budge on the price... this will be the same situation. The only difference will be that you will have to extend your contract. If a $200 iPhone all of the sudden makes TONS of AT&T customers want to upgrade to the phone and extend their contracts even if you are only a 2 month old customer that is still in AT&T's favor, they will have you for 2 more months... now imagine if this continues each year... i will gladly remain an AT&T customer for LIFE if every June/July, i can spend $199 and get a BRAND NEW phone from Apple. This is probably the most genius idea yet to come to the cell phone industry and no one sees it, because REALLY everyone wins! It is perfect

You took the words right out of my mouth

Posted by: payroll

I don't see them offering it for people who are not qualified for upgrades.

Posted by: mobilehavoc

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cell2Be

I do not think this is true. I bought the iphone on the second day of release and today I can walk to any at&t store and upgrade to a different phone with upgrade credit. I was just curious a month ago and was looking at the LG Vu and they pulled my account and told me I was eligible for the discounted rate on the phone.

You just agreed with what I'm saying. You had an iPhone v1 which you paid full price for so you're upgrade eligibility was saved until now. Re-read what I wrote, for people who never had iPhone v1, it may not work out.

Posted by: flyingdutchman

Everyone wanted a subsidized iPhone and look at what it has brought. No guarantee that anyone can get the iPhone for the advertised price. Much higher plan rates. In-store activation. Please bring back the $399 price point and current plan rates!

Posted by: 1G-Drew

Quote:

Originally Posted by XFF

That's a good point. Presumably buying a 1st gen iPhone didn't change upgrade/subsidy status, which could still block a new subsidy on a non-iPhone purchase.

Posted by: 1G-Drew

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyingdutchman

Everyone wanted a subsidized iPhone and look at what it has brought.

Not me. I liked the set up the way it was, whether data was $20 or $30 doesn't change that.

I think Jobs's claim was marketing --sure people want a lower price on everything. At best, what he's saying is that iPHone customers are stupid because they don't realize that they pay later if they don't pay now.

Posted by: importluva

Anyone that bought a 1st gen iPhone through AT&T/Apple shouldn't be worried about upgrading to a 3G iPhone. Anyone that is a new subscriber or is due for an upgrade from AT&T doesn't have to worry about it either.

It's only those non-iPhone users that are in the beginning/middle of their contracts that should have a concern with this thread. However, the wording makes it sound like AT&T will sell iPhone 3G to these users, but not at the subsidized 199/299 price points. My guess - 399/499.

Posted by: nickmil

Quote:

Originally Posted by importluva

Anyone that bought a 1st gen iPhone through AT&T/Apple shouldn't be worried about upgrading to a 3G iPhone. Anyone that is a new subscriber or is due for an upgrade from AT&T doesn't have to worry about it either.

It's only those non-iPhone users that are in the beginning/middle of their contracts that should have a concern with this thread. However, the wording makes it sound like AT&T will sell iPhone 3G to these users, but not at the subsidized 199/299 price points. My guess - 399/499.

Thank you! This is what I've been trying to get through to people the last 24 hours. Some people just don't understand subsidies and how they work vs. the sales model of the original iPhone.

I guess we'll just have to wait until AT&T announces the official non-qualified upgrade price.

Posted by: importluva

Yea, I'm hoping that AT&T won't disallow current users from upgrading, but something tells me that Apple wouldn't let that happen given its push for market share.

Posted by: Mark Booth

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyingdutchman

Everyone wanted a subsidized iPhone and look at what it has brought. No guarantee that anyone can get the iPhone for the advertised price. Much higher plan rates. In-store activation. Please bring back the $399 price point and current plan rates!

Absolutely agree with this!

Every time I read someone *****ing about "not being able to afford a $400 phone", I wanted to reach through the cable modem and *****-slap them! You pay one way, or you pay the other. It's the subsidized phone that you can't afford because IT COSTS MORE!!!!!!!!!!!

But Apple and AT&T WILL sell more iPhones this way. America is all about buying things on the payment plan! And those folks that couldn't squeeze $400 onto their credit cards might find room to squeeze $200 onto them.

Mark

Posted by: importluva

AT&T and Apple sure do know how to prey on the financial stupidity of a lot of Americans. We tend to overleverage ourselves even when we know we can't afford something, but I guess you can't blame corporations for taking advantage of this mindset.

If you can't afford something, don't buy it. If you think the monthly plans are too much and you can't find room in your budget, don't get it. It should be this simple but its not.

Posted by: ski1ski1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Booth

I don't see a problem with this approach. Many people have payment plans for many things....home, autos, plasma TVs.

So what if people can't afford $400 upfront (or don't want to pay that much up front), but prefer to pay it over 2 years ?

Posted by: michaelflorio82

Quote:

Originally Posted by nickmil

Since when would a company who SELLS a product, be unwilling to SELL said product to anyone???

The memo has already been posted... They simply have not yet determined the price for non-qualified upgrades.

That is all.

I agree. I dont think they will be stupid and NOT sell the phone to people. I think they just need to work out a price that is in alignment with the new strategy.

Posted by: michaelflorio82

Quote:

Originally Posted by importluva

AT&T and Apple sure do know how to prey on the financial stupidity of a lot of Americans. We tend to overleverage ourselves even when we know we can't afford something, but I guess you can't blame corporations for taking advantage of this mindset.

If you can't afford something, don't buy it. If you think the monthly plans are too much and you can't find room in your budget, don't get it. It should be this simple but its not.

They are not preying on anyone. Its a consumers responsibility to determine what they can and cannot afford. No one is forceing people to buy a phone or phone service, its a CHOICE.

You want to talk about preying on consumers look at the rate for health insurance premiums. NowTHATS BS!

Posted by: importluva

Quote:

Originally Posted by michaelflorio82

I'm still sticking by the majority of consumers buy first, look at their budgets second statement

Posted by: michaelflorio82

Quote:

Originally Posted by importluva

I'm still sticking by the majority of consumers buy first, look at their budgets second statement

Oh I agree consumers do that, but its not Apple's or Att's fault that it happens.

Posted by: locovic2007

any update on this?... i was going to call att but its now closed where i live since its past 10pm.

Posted by: jfandem

Isn't it $199/299 no matter what, for everyone? There is no pricing without contract, you cannot buy it without contract. Its the same price, and you either extend or replaced your current 2 yr contract. Simple as that. I dont understand why everyone is so confused. They will let anybody buy this phone obviously and activate service/new/replaced contract.

Posted by: thadoggfather

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfandem

Isn't it $199/299 no matter what, for everyone? There is no pricing without contract, you cannot buy it without contract. Its the same price, and you either extend or replaced your current 2 yr contract. Simple as that. I dont understand why everyone is so confused. They will let anybody buy this phone obviously and activate service/new/replaced contract.

Are you sure about this?

Posted by: michaelflorio82

Quote:

Originally Posted by thadoggfather

Are you sure about this?

According to the doc we all got (at&t employees) thats was leaked, it states that they have yet NOT determined the price for non eligible customers. So from the doc it seems like they have not decided weather or not to raise the price for those who are not eligible for upgrades.

Posted by: Loriolus

I'm very confident that it's gonna be just like the first iphone. Doesn't matter where you stand in your contract, the contract just extends for 2 years from that point on.

Posted by: HabanoJim

I also spoke with CS today and was told that all we have to do is sign a new 2yr contract and we will be able to purchase the new iphone 3G for the $199 or $299 price even though we are not eligible for an upgrade until January of 2009.

Jim

Posted by: jfandem

Yeah i dont see what the problem is, they obviously wont refuse to sell the damn phone to someone. All I know is that I read that it either extends or replaces your current 2 year contract. Why would someone not be eligible for an 'upgrade' they would have stated that somewhere. You see how many phones they sold the first time for $599 (sadly thats what i paid on launch day lol) and now at 199/299 they are going to sell like crazy, literally everyone will have one.

Posted by: RF9

The more I think about it, the more I think they will not jack up the "full price" of the iPhone all that much. Sure it'll be $199/$299 for qualified people. But regardless they make you sign a 2 year contract.
Normally a phone would be $150 more ($150 being the standard discount off of 'full price' for new activations for other phones.)
If I had to speculate, I'd say the 'full price' will be $100 more. Or $299/$399.

That would make it still very marketable.

But I can only speculate (and hope.)

Posted by: rwo123gr

If they let you get say, a blackberry in January, your contract "pays AT&T back" for the cost savings of the phone over the next 2 years.

If you then want an iphone 3g in July, your contract also has to pay for that (iphone 3g could retail for $400-500, you are buying for $199)... who pays for the blackberry you just got? noone! so they are not going to let you carry two subsidized phones at a time. If you do not have an iphone, your going to have to wait (or pay the forthcoming unactivated price of probably 399/499).

So what about the Iphone1? As many have said, it's not a subsidized phone, it's the same as getting a phone at full retail, from a friend, on the sidewalk, whatever. You still 'own' a single subsidized phone until your original contract ends.

The iphone1 was being sold, the iphone 3g is not, your paying $199 for it, but the phone is being subsidized by your contract, just like every other contract phone in the US.

I mean, iphone is nice, but people are still going to have motorola, samsung, sony, and other phones, there's no way they are going to let AT&T and apple broker a deal to let you switch from their phones to $199 iphones unless you've paid them for their phone first.

Posted by: 1G-Drew

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfandem

Yeah i dont see what the problem is, they obviously wont refuse to sell the damn phone to someone.

The problem is AT&T is a business and they don't want to give out multiple phone subsidies to a single subscriber within a short period.

Now, they may decide that's not too big a problem. Or they may decide it is. Or they may decide to do a sliding scale, so that if you got a subsidized phone in the last 6 mos. you pay extra, but 6mos-1 year is nothing extra. Or maybe more complicated, like if you got a subsidized phone after June 9 you pay a lot extra and before June 9 you pay nothing extra.

I know this -- if there's no restriction, I'm buying something else first, and then buying the iPhone.

Posted by: locovic2007

well today i went to my local att and asked about this issue. There were like 4 workers jus relaxing there so i walked in between them and went ahead and asked them what the price would be for the iphone 3g if i was already in contrat with a bb. They all loked at me and said that rguardless it was going to be 199/299 for all. So there you have it...

Posted by: RF9

Thank you for sharing that. It would be great if that's true.

But I wouldn't put absolute faith that they really know what they're talking about. *IF* AT&T hasn't decided, then there's no possible way they can know. And if it was communicated to them, it's likely it would have made it to Engadget, here, etc.

I can't tell you how many times I have had flat out misinformation from store employees.

Posted by: ivwshane

What makes sense to me is that they would allow original iphone users to upgrade since they did not receive a phone subsidy on the original iphone.

However, some people weren't eligible for upgrade when they bought the original iphone and I wonder how they will be treated (if they still aren't eligible had they never purchased the iphone).

Posted by: michaelflorio82

Quote:

Originally Posted by RF9

Thank you for sharing that. It would be great if that's true.

But I wouldn't put absolute faith that they really know what they're talking about. *IF* AT&T hasn't decided, then there's no possible way they can know. And if it was communicated to them, it's likely it would have made it to Engadget, here, etc.

I can't tell you how many times I have had flat out misinformation from store employees.

As a store employee I agree. Its crazy the amount of misinformation I watch my coeworkers give out to customers. Dont believe anything we say. Just read engadget and hofo for the correct info.