vB Easy Archive - My email from at&t:

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My email from at&t:
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Posted by: jamesdean74

ok, here is a copy of what I emailed to at&t:

A4:hello, I recently inquired about the new iphone 3g, and was told I
would have to be upgrade eligible to recieve the 199/299 pricing. I am
currently not upgrade eligible until 9-11-2008, would you be able to
extend the offer of an upgrade on my account as I have been a customer
for quite a few years and would really appreciate the ability to buy the
new iphone when it comes out on 7-11-2008. Thank you so much.

and here is there answer:

Thank you for taking the time to e-mail the new AT&T regarding your
question about whether or not we can change your upgrade eligibility to
allow you to upgrade to the new iPhone when it comes out on July 11th. I
am happy to help you with your inquiry.

According to our records, mobile number xxx-xxx-xxxx has a contract that
started on 02/16/2008 and ends on 02/16/2010. Device offers are made
available from time to time based on a number of factors: service
tenure, spending levels, payment history, usage practices and other
factors. You can take advantage of our no-commitment pricing option at
any time. This line may be eligible for an equipment discount on
09/11/2008 which is already five months early. It?s because of your
tenure and payment history that we are offering the early 09/11/2008
date so we would not be able to offer an earlier date.

The good news is that you will be eligible for the upgrade to the new
iPhone five months early on 09/11/2008. AT&T has not determined the
price of the 3G device for non-qualified upgrades. If I've answered all
of your issues today, there's no need to reply to this communication. If
you would like to comment on my service, please complete the online
survey via the link located below.

We appreciate your interest in the new 3G iPhone. Unfortunately, at this
time further details are not available. However, at www.wireless.att.com
and by searching 3G iPhone, you can sign up to receive e-mail alerts
when more information becomes available. I hope you find this
information useful.

Again Mr. xxxxx, we thank you for allowing us the opportunity to
assist you with your account. We appreciate your loyalty and that you
have been an AT&T customer for many years. If we can be of further
assistance, please contact us at http://www.att.com/wireless. As always,
thank you for choosing AT&T!

Sincerely,

Rick Shull
AT&T
Online Customer Care Professional

so, I guess that as of now, no new iphone for me, as I sold my old iphone 2 months ago to pay for the new iphone!!! I have been a customer of theirs for over 6 years, with 3 lines on my family plan, and have been paying about $150-$170 a month for the last 4 years, and I am just really upset if they can not see fit to offer this to me, the only other option I have is to open a new line with the new iphone and cancel my 1 line of service.... I don't know yet. Just thought I'd share this with all you!

Posted by: VDubb

We told most people not to sell their iPhones until they get the full details...but some just wanted to dig themselves a grave, while others still hold on to the thread of hope that the iPhone 3G will be available to all at the discounted price.

- VDubb

Posted by: Kadin

This seems to be the most consistent answer I'm seeing as of late. Some stores I've talked with say there is a 'no commitment' price coming, while others say that the $199/$299 price is all there is, but some people (not upgrade eligible,etc.) simply won't be able to buy it even with a 2yr extension.

I think this is a typical mess and debacle that AT&T is so great at being a part of. Nothing like waiting to the last minute to figure out the details...

Oh well, I'll get mine some day... or I won't.

Posted by: dave006

They are willing to sell you a new iPhone. It might just cost you more then the subsidized $199. At most you will be buying at the non-qualified upgrade price. It sounds like you may have used your subsidized device feature when you renewed you contract on 2/16/2008.

Posted by: asnpcwiz

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamesdean74

so, I guess that as of now, no new iphone for me, as I sold my old iphone 2 months ago to pay for the new iphone!!! I have been a customer of theirs for over 6 years, with 3 lines on my family plan, and have been paying about $150-$170 a month for the last 4 years, and I am just really upset if they can not see fit to offer this to me, the only other option I have is to open a new line with the new iphone and cancel my 1 line of service.... I don't know yet. Just thought I'd share this with all you!

I'm not shocked really. Considering the fact that the new iPhone is going to sell like hotcakes, I just don't see them bending over backwards for customers who are already obligated. In addition, you paying $150-170 for 3 lines probably isn't that much nowadays. My wife and I pay more than that for our 2 lines.

Posted by: Red Setter

The problem is the mis information and lack of information at AT&T among the CSR's. And the "Leaked" information that is little more than form letters

As for the OP: That's the canned response to your question. It was not in any way a researched or even directed to your question response. You asked about changing your upgrade eligibility date. You should have asked what you'd be required to pay for an iPhone 3G

I work for Apple and while yes, I am a CSR, I consider myself a relatively responsible one and I do try to get my facts straight before I respond. And since I am not in an area directly related to or responsible for iPhone contracts and sales I have been refraining from making blanket statments (or flaming overmuch those that take absurd stands)

So when I say I conducted my own experiments and called several AT&T reps it was done to confirm my own "insider information" and make sure that there were no surprises.

Fact: Apple is selling iPhones for one price point only: $199/299.

Fact: There is no 'subsidized' price. That is THE price. The 'subsidy' comes in the form of the 2 year contract every buyer is now forced to sign before they can buy the phone. And since there is no sale with no contract there is no 'no subsidy' price

Fact: Eligible in this case means a meriad of things: passing credit guidelines for new accounts, having the available lines on an existing account, being in an AT&T coverage area, yada yada yada. It does not refer to 'eligible for upgrade'

Fact: "Leaked" memos stating an "as yet to be determined 'non upgrade' price" are misleading. They are basically boilerplate releases to employees that have a 'fill in the blank' type format. The sections about 'non upgrade pricing' are left in as a 'hedge your bets' clause

Fact: There are no discounts on the iPhone 3G. No free activation, no free shipping, nada. And since there are NO DISCOUNTS on an iPhone, how can there be a discounted 'upgrade eligible' price point?

Fact: You will need an AT&T phone number (either existing, new or ported from another carrier) and one of the following: a new 2 year contract, a renewal of an existing 2 year contract or a converted GoPhone account in order to walk out of any Apple Store or AT&T Corporate store with an iPhone 3G. Once you have the phone you will activate it via iTunes on your AT&T account. (The difference there being the previous geneation allowed for AT&T sign up AND Apple activation all via iTunes.)

My boss said the phone will sell for $199/299. Like him or not when he goes on record he usually mens what he says and says what he means :P

Posted by: sthomp

The only fact is that Apple employees have no idea what AT&T is going to do for non-eligible upgrades until AT&T decides to tell them. These are existing and binding AT&T contracts that have nothing to do with Apple or the new iphone.

Posted by: bootycancer

What would stop you from just buying the 3G Iphone for the price that Steve Jobs announced? Why would the price be different than what has already been specified?

What I'm getting at here, is, what would stop you from buying the 3G Iphone from Apple Store or even Ebay or whatever. Walking into an ATT store and telling them you want to change your plan from the Iphone plan to the Iphone 3G plan, for your 3G Iphone and pay the increased amount per month?

Posted by: cmatthews

Local store manager here had originally told everyone got 3g iphone for $199/$299, and he has now it has changed to cost for people that are not upgrade eligible has yet to be determined.

He did tell me that at&t will allow my upgrade eligibilty date to be changed from 11/11/08 to launch date for the 3g iphone.

But since 3g is not available in my area yet, I think I'm gonna hold off. I found a 8gb 1st gen iphone for $100, looks good as new, think I'll use it until 3g hits here.

Posted by: Red Setter

Once they're in circulation, nothing.

The difference is that people don't believe that there is actually only one price point.

They've heard "subsidized" and assumed 2 price points.

The problem with buying one elsewhere is getting them in circulation.

You can't buy one in an Apple store without signing a contract. Apple stores will do the AT&T contracts like any other AT&T Franchise store and no retailer other than Apple and AT&T corp stores will be selling them (in the US). Only in brick and mortar stores. No on line sales initially.

If a contract is required to walk out of a store, and an ETF charged for cancellations after the 30 day BRP the price for an aftermarket (eBay or whatever) is not going to be $199/299. There's going to be premiums attached (at least $175+$69 - I know I wouldn't sell one for less than it actually cost me out of pocket)

Posted by: Red Setter

Quote:

Originally Posted by sthomp

The only fact is that Apple employees have no idea what AT&T is going to do for non-eligible upgrades until AT&T decides to tell them. These are existing and binding AT&T contracts that have nothing to do with Apple or the new iphone.

Not true

The contracts between Apple and AT&T supercedes contracts between AT&T and their clients where the iPhone is concerned.

When you bought a v1 iPhone on 6/29/07 you paid one price point: $499/599, regardless of whether it was a new contract, renewed contract, upgrade eligible or otherwise. The terms of your existing contract had no bearing on your purchase of the iPhone. And your contract, which you signed/accepted when you activated the iPhone via iTunes, with AT&T was renewed/rewritten to conform with Apple's terms.

The same is true here. One price point. Terms dictated by Apple, not AT&T

Posted by: sthomp

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Setter

Not true

The contracts between Apple and AT&T supercedes contracts between AT&T and their clients where the iPhone is concerned.

When you bought a v1 iPhone on 6/29/07 you paid one price point: $499/599, regardless of whether it was a new contract, renewed contract, upgrade eligible or otherwise. The terms of your existing contract had no bearing on your purchase of the iPhone. And your contract with AT&T was renewed/rewritten to conform with Apple's terms

The same is true here. One price point. Terms dictated by Apple, not AT&T

The first iphone was not subsidized and this one is. Different phone, different terms. You are really only confusing people on this issue because there has been no official announcement on what is going to happen.

Posted by: Kadin

So wait, if someone goes into Apple come July 11th and purchases the new device, what exactly will Apple be doing in their stores? Do they now have access to AT&T accounts from within their stores; are they now becoming a part Apple/AT&T salesperson?

What will Apple do about verifying eligibility on the device and activating it then and there as opposed to the old method of it being activated at home?

Posted by: bootycancer

Quote:

Originally Posted by sthomp

there has been no official announcement on what is going to happen.

Why do you say? The price has been posted on Apple's site for awhile now.
The subsidy doesn't effect you as far as the day you buy it. It's only 2years later, when your 3G Iphone plan exspires, that the subsidy really effects you.

Posted by: VDubb

Quote:

Originally Posted by sthomp

Exactly, so stop spreading all the misinformation Setter.

- VDubb

Posted by: sthomp

Quote:

Originally Posted by bootycancer

i'm talking about current at&t customers in a 2 year contract that are not eligible for an upgrade.

Posted by: Red Setter

Kadin: Apple stores will be functioning as AT&T franchise stores. When you go to an Apple retail store to buy the phone they will either set up an AT&T account for you, add the phone to an existing account or replace a line on an existing account. Before you leave the store you will have signed the 2 year agreement.

They will have access to the AT&T database - much the same as iTunes did on line

Once you have your shiny new iPhone 3G and after the ink has dried on your brand spankin' new (or newly renewed) AT&T 2 year agreement you take the phone home, attach it to your PC/MAC, fire up iTunes and activate it

The difference is that with the v1 you did the verification, contract and activation via iTunes. With this one all you will be doing is activating (basically turning it on) via iTunes.

SThomp: The whole point of the 2 year signed agreement prior to leaving the point of purchase is to guarantee that AT&T gets the full value of the phone. THAT'S the subsidy. That makes no difference if you are upgrading or buying for the first time, eligible to upgrade or not. If you're not eligible for an upgrade you are still required to renew your existing contract. Thus guaranteeing AT&T has their income (or a means of replacing it via ETF)

When you buy a 'normal' phone for a 'non subsidized' price you do not effect your contract. It's a no commitment price. You contract end date remains the same.

In this case when you buy the 3G the end date of your contract now becomes 2 yrs from the date of purchase for that line. Hence the subsidized price

Hence the lack of difference if you're eligible to upgrade or not. All comers are treated the same

Posted by: Red Setter

Quote:

Originally Posted by sthomp

i'm talking about current at&t customers in a 2 year contract that are not eligible for an upgrade.

If they buy a KRZR at a no commitment price they don't change their contract renewal date

If they buy a Curve at a no commitment price they do not change their contract renewal date.

If you buy an iPhone there is no 'no commitment' sale. By the nature of the contract between Apple and AT&T no iPhone is sold without a 2 year agreement. Hence, when you put an iPhone on your plan your contract renewal date now becomes 24 months from the date of activation.

Posted by: Kadin

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Setter

Kadin: Apple stores will be functioning as AT&T franchise stores. When you go to an Apple retail store to buy the phone they will either set up an AT&T account for you, add the phone to an existing account or replace a line on an existing account. Before you leave the store you will have signed the 2 year agreement.

They will have access to the AT&T database - much the same as iTunes did on line

Once you have your shiny new iPhone 3G and after the ink has dried on your brand spankin' new (or newly renewed) AT&T 2 year agreement you take the phone home, attach it to your PC/MAC, fire up iTunes and activate it

The difference is that with the v1 you did the verification, contract and activation via iTunes. With this one all you will be doing is activating (basically turning it on) via iTunes.

SThomp: The whole point of the 2 year signed agreement prior to leaving the point of purchase is to guarantee that AT&T gets the full value of the phone. THAT'S the subsidy. That makes no difference if you are upgrading or buying for the first time, eligible to upgrade or not. If you're not eligible for an upgrade you are still required to renew your existing contract. Thus guaranteeing AT&T has their income (or a means of replacing it via ETF)

When you buy a 'normal' phone for a 'non subsidized' price you do not effect your contract. It's a no commitment price. You contract end date remains the same.

In this case when you buy the 3G the end date of your contract now becomes 2 yrs from the date of purchase for that line. Hence the subsidized price

Hence the lack of difference if you're eligible to upgrade or not. All comers are treated the same

So are you saying that an AT&T customer coming into an Apple store will or will not go through some type of eligibility check to get the new phone? And what do you mean by 'franchise' stores? There's either 'direct' or 'indirect' stores. One being owned and operated by AT&T, the other being 'authorized dealers'. I'm assuming it's the latter.

That's where I'm confused. A lot of dealers don't have direct access to upgrade eligibility so I'm a little stumped on his this is taking place at Apple.

Posted by: sthomp

Quote:

SThomp: The whole point of the 2 year signed agreement prior to leaving the point of purchase is to guarantee that AT&T gets the full value of the phone. THAT'S the subsidy. That makes no difference if you are upgrading or buying for the first time, eligible to upgrade or not. If you're not eligible for an upgrade you are still required to renew your existing contract. Thus guaranteeing AT&T has their income (or a means of replacing it via ETF)

When you buy a 'normal' phone for a 'non subsidized' price you do not effect your contract. It's a no commitment price. You contract end date remains the same.

In this case when you buy the 3G the end date of your contract now becomes 2 yrs from the date of purchase for that line. Hence the subsidized price

Hence the lack of difference if you're eligible to upgrade or not. All comers are treated the same

Look I hope you are right and everyone gets an iphone for $199, but you really need to stop posting speculation as fact until you can back up any of your statements with PROOF. Until then its just speculation. You know it, I know it, and so should everyone else.

Posted by: bootycancer

Quote:

Originally Posted by sthomp

i'm talking about current at&t customers in a 2 year contract that are not eligible for an upgrade.

There is nothing to it. The price is set. There is no customer subsidy. The subsidy is handled through ATT and Apple.... Not you and ATT like other phones.

So it seems pretty simple to me. Regardless of who you are, and where you stand with your current contract, the 3G Iphone will be the price already specified. You will have to sign a 2 year contract regardless.

Now if you are with ATT and not elegible for an upgrade, then I would imagine that you would be hit with some kind of fees to buy out of your original contract.(processing fees)

But you are still paying the same for the 3G Iphone and signing a 2 year contract.

The real question is, how much is the plan rate going to increase?

Posted by: sthomp

Quote:

Originally Posted by bootycancer

exactly. you can look at it as buying out of your contract or an increased price of the phone. either way it is going to cost you more than $199 to get the 3g iphone in this non-eligible scenario. ...but like i said, we don't know for sure what will happen for these cases. i'm sure there is a chance at&t could pay everyones subsidy on their current phone if they want the new iphone but i consider this to be unlikely.

Posted by: bootycancer

Quote:

Originally Posted by sthomp

Now, let me also point out that, even though I'm 1 year into my 2 year V1 Iphone contract, it appears that all Iphone users are allowed to upgrade.

Posted by: Kadin

Quote:

Originally Posted by bootycancer

Now, let me also point out that, even though I'm 1 year into my 2 year V1 Iphone contract, it appears that all Iphone users are allowed to upgrade.

Because on your V1 phone... there was no discount given to you... that's why anyone was able to purchase the phone at that price, customer of AT&T or not.

If you bought the original, and still have it active like you did then (meaning you haven't bought another phone at a discount since), then yes you're still eligible because you didn't get a 'break' in price on your last phone (Original iPhone).

Posted by: XanderMac

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Setter

You're not taking into account people that are in a contract and got a tilt, for example, a $600 phone, for $199 3 months ago. Who is going to eat that? Will AT&T eat it just because you say apple has control? No, apple lost control hence the new signup process and subsidy. Apple are nothing more than another manufacturer selling a phone now, no different to nokia or htc. AT&T set the terms now.

Posted by: Red Setter

Quote:

Originally Posted by XanderMac

Not really. Apple is still more in control of the sale of the phone than you think. In terms of how it's physically sold - as in at point of sale - AT&T won the battle to allow them to take control and activate them more traditionally.

But in terms of pricing they're still playing by Apple's rules.

AT&T is gambling on the fact that if - after a year of iPhone sales - you just bought a Tilt 2 months ago - before the iPhone release - you're not going to be looking at an iPhone

Different markets, different user groups. Like the BB folks probably wont run to iPhone just for exchange support.

There may be people like yourself looking to make the switch, but I'm pretty sure AT&Ts market research has said there aren't enough to make it an issue

Plus - with no real upgrade path (Unlike O2 and the other Euro carriers) and no discount on the cost of the iPhone they won't be losing all that much

Posted by: TerryMathews

All you guys are glossing over the increased data price too. According to AT&T's own rules, the iPhone is not a QWERTY device, therefore it's not a PDA and should qualify for the $19.99 data plan. Just like the iPhone mark 1.

So where is that extra $10 (or $15 if it's true there are no SMS included) going? Hmmm, subsidy between Apple and AT&T perhaps? $10 * 24 months = $240. $15 * 24 = $360. Certainly plenty to go around.

I know people are going to try and argue that the iPhone's a PDA anyway since it's 3g now and people like to hear themselves talk here. Before that even starts, let me point this out... AT&T has sold many phones that are as capable as the iPhone, that are 3g, with no QWERTY keyboard under the MediaMax plan. Nokia N75 for example...

Personally that's where I think the subsidy money is coming from, and that's why I think anyone that is interested will be able to get the phone at the $199 price once. This will be the first time AT&T has offered a 2 year data contract, so of course everyone is elligible. Plus this plays into my dislike of the telecom industries policies. What better way to combat mandatory prorated ETFs than with multiple ETFs? LOL. "Let's see sir, you're half way through your 3g iPhone contract so your ETF is $225."

"What, I thought AT&T was prorating ETFs now!"

"We are sir. You had a $200 ETF for the phone and another $200 ETF for the data plan. Prorated, that works out to $225."

Posted by: RF9

Quote:

Originally Posted by TerryMathews

All you guys are glossing over the increased data price too. According to AT&T's own rules, the iPhone is not a QWERTY device, therefore it's not a PDA and should qualify for the $19.99 data plan. Just like the iPhone mark 1.

I disagree.
The on screen QWERTY counts. Besides, AT&T can change the definition of a PDA any time they want to. Today QWERTY=PDA, tomorrow they could have a new definition. The only reason the first iPhone had the $20 plan was because it wasn't at all subsidized and they had a special arrangement with Apple to price it that way (they made it a special case.)

They didn't even come up with the QWERTY definition until the Blackjack. It started selling as a smartphone with the $20 smartphone data plan and they realized they could make more money if they re-classified the 'smartphone' as a PDA with the QWERTY definition. That's the truth.

3G or not 3G has nothing to do with what's a PDA. The Palm Treo 600, 650, 680, centro, and blackberries are all "PDAs" and they're all EDGE only. They all require the $30 or up PDA data plans.

Yes, the increased data plan price *IS* in fact how they're making the money up on the subsidy. AT&T even says so in their press release. And the data plan is REQUIRED on the iPhone 3G, at least for the first year from what I hear. There is NO requirement for ANY other PDA, it's always optional even IF you get the special rebates for getting the data plan on them.

So I agree, this warrants a special case scenario for keeping the price low even for non-qualified upgrades. Maybe not $199, but maybe $299 tops.

Some argue that even if you got a subsidy phone 2 months ago and AT&T hasn't recoup the cost on that from you yet, how can they take another subsidy hit on the iPhone 3G.
Well I think it's because they want everyone on the iPhone 3G. AT&T simply knows something we don't, and involves taking over the world

No really, none of us here can say what the execs at AT&T are thinking.

I am NOT saying it's $199 for any an all. I AM saying it won't be a lot more expensive.

At least that's how I see it.

What I really want to know is what is the "replacement" cost when I drop the darn thing in to the SF bay and have to replace it, on August 11th after I've have it 1 month.
Hopefully that won't happen, but seriously, worst case scenario, what's it going to be? It doesn't matter to me. I can wait 2-3 weeks to find out.

Posted by: TerryMathews

That's why I'm buying AppleCare on mine.

Posted by: 4-n-zics

Quote:

Originally Posted by RF9

What I really want to know is what is the "replacement" cost when I drop the darn thing in to the SF bay and have to replace it, on August 11th after I've have it 1 month.

So you have an exact date and place your iPhone 3G will need replacing? You must be a very unlucky person.

Posted by: XanderMac

ok, just spoke to AT&T.

#1 new customers get $199 price
#2 existing iPhone customers get $199 price
#3 existing customers who are eligible for upgrade get $199 price
#4 existing customers who are not eligible for upgrade. TBD.

If you're not eligible for an upgrade on your existing contract you may have to wait until you are eligible before you can get the iPhone. Unless they set a price for that scenario. Which won't be $199.

This was a CSR so take it for what it's worth, but it jives with the statement AT&T gave in their memo.

Posted by: ski1ski1

Quote:

Originally Posted by XanderMac

#4 existing customers who are not eligible for upgrade. TBD.

If you're not eligible for an upgrade on your existing contract you may have to wait until you are eligible before you can get the iPhone. Unless they set a price for that scenario. Which won't be $199.

In all fairness, TBD could mean $199, or could not mean $199. AT&T has not decided or made it public yet. Saying it definitely won't be $199 has not been confirmed.

Posted by: XanderMac

Quote:

Originally Posted by ski1ski1

In all fairness, TBD could mean $199, or could not mean $199. AT&T has not decided or made it public yet.

True. But they are treating iPhone upgrades the same as any other device, so I doubt it'll be $199.

Posted by: amkls704

Quote:

Originally Posted by XanderMac

ok, just spoke to AT&T.

#1 new customers get $199 price
#2 existing iPhone customers get $199 price
#3 existing customers who are eligible for upgrade get $199 price
#4 existing customers who are not eligible for upgrade. TBD.

If you're not eligible for an upgrade on your existing contract you may have to wait until you are eligible before you can get the iPhone. Unless they set a price for that scenario. Which won't be $199.

This was a CSR so take it for what it's worth, but it jives with the statement AT&T gave in their memo.

See but this is the problem. Every CSR is just saying what THEIR take on it is. I have called over 5 times in the past few days just to see if I could get a corresponding story. As far as NOT being eligible for an upgrade, these are my responses in order:

1 - 199/299 for everyone, doesn't matter if you are eligible
2 - ditto for #1
3 - ditto for #1 (this is where I started to get excited)
4 - If you aren't eligible, go to an Apple store, because THEY will give you the 199/299 price point if AT&T has a higher price point for those not eligible.
5 - Doesn't matter who you are or what phone you have, if you aren't eligible you aren't eligible. This lady even had the balls to tell me that current iPhone users don't even qualify, which I think we already know if false.

So I wouldn't assume anything just yet. I've already decided we are going to go downtown Chicago and get 2 of the 16GB iPhones on launch day since we're both off work and figured it may be fun. If I end up paying a little more on my line because I bought a Curve in march as a backup phone, that's fine, if it's 199/299, that's even better.

My personal opinion (and no, I'm NOT claiming this on fact, because I have no idea). I really honestly thing it will be sold for 199/299 point blank. The reason for my thinking is the fact that AT&T upped the price of the data plan. Saying the phone has 3G in it now really isn't a good argument for upping a data plan. I think the 10 bucks more a month covers the people that AREN'T eligible to be able to get it, so then by the end, you ARE paying that back. And on top of that, those who WERE eligible, are paying 10 bucks extra a month anyways. AT&T would be banking on that, and I think THAT is how they're affording to do it.

But again, that's just my personal opinion.