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Originally Posted by dimsum05
I don't think it's that they are behind, I think it's that they are too busy finishing their portfolio to even care about touch.
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Originally Posted by dimsum05
Sure, Apple is a threat, any company that can create that much buzz over one handset can bring some kind of concern with it, but they aren't going to drop all of their current projects to answer one company with one concept! If anything, it would make them look even more threatened from the boys and girls of Cupertino.
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Originally Posted by dimsum05
They said the 5800 was only made as a midrange device because it's not their main concern, or a device to test the waters with.
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Originally Posted by dimsum05
People always blow everything out of proportion, especially when it's Apple. They made a device, so everyone must be rushing to copy them.
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Originally Posted by FFR
Are you saying nokia Doesn't care about a touch screen phone? Wow does that mean Nokia's touch development is half-***** at best? the tube is something to really look forward to.
I think your right nokia really shouldn't be worried. "Global banking giant HSBC is considering ditching the BlackBerry and adopting Apple's iPhone as its standard staff mobile device, a move that could result in an order for some 200,000 iPhones," Liam Tung reports for ZDNet Australia. http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/hardwa...39291247,00.htm Right, Because if they went all out with a high-end phone and sales weren't up to snuff it wouldn't be as embarrassing for them. I agree that is total paranoia. http://www.engadget.com/2007/10/16/...e-demonstrated/ http://www.geardiary.com/2008/06/08...-appear-online/ |
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Originally Posted by dimsum05
If you have been listening to that same Engadget post you posted, the lady specifically says that S60 Touch is only S60 with a touch layer, nothing more, nothing less. Nokia has a platform that ranges from different devices and formfactors. A small portion of S60 fans have been requesting a layer of touch to S60, and that's what they are doing with the 5800.
If they already have a platform setup. If they ditch it and build from the ground up, they kiss backwards compatibility good bye. I'm actually glad Nokia isn't scrambling to get a range of touchscreen-based phones out the door, or at least they don't show it (like RIM, Samsung, Motorola, LG, etc). It makes the other companies look bad and like they are really putting the iPhone on a pedestal. Companies trading their Blackberries for iPhones might need a specifically designed app that requires multiple finger gestures, like medical apps (as iamthedudeman loves to flaunt >_<), maybe they are getting it thinking it has more email functionality than Blackberries, maybe they got a deal with Apple that makes them even cheaper than anything else!? Who knows why they do it?! They have to be careful though because they are bringing a device that hasn't been tested thoroughly like something like BB OS or Symbian. I'm thinking on getting my 8th iPhone this weekend, but this device still seems to much like a proof-of-concept with all the things it missing (which doesn't seem mind). Different phones for different folks I guess. It's a great device, and I don't doubt it will enjoy a great amount of success, but making it sound like it will take over the world and everyone else will have to buy one is just silly. I actually love whenever Apple get bad press (iPhones getting hot, cracked, and dropping calls like flies because of the RF), it forces Apple to respect the amount of work that goes into making a solid 3G handset instead of boasting that it has the market all tied up. It doesn't matter though, people nowadays don't even care about solid devices anymore, all they care about is something that brands the media player as an "iPod" and has 3G!!! so it must be fast!!1 Sure it's tightly integrated with iTunes and the whole Apple universe, but as seamless integration goes up, the liberty to do what ever you want on your device goes down. |
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Originally Posted by dimsum05
If you have been listening to that same Engadget post you posted, the lady specifically says that S60 Touch is only S60 with a touch layer, nothing more, nothing less. Nokia has a platform that ranges from different devices and formfactors. A small portion of S60 fans have been requesting a layer of touch to S60, and that's what they are doing with the 5800.
If they already have a platform setup. If they ditch it and build from the ground up, they kiss backwards compatibility good bye. I'm actually glad Nokia isn't scrambling to get a range of touchscreen-based phones out the door, or at least they don't show it (like RIM, Samsung, Motorola, LG, etc). It makes the other companies look bad and like they are really putting the iPhone on a pedestal. Companies trading their Blackberries for iPhones might need a specifically designed app that requires multiple finger gestures, like medical apps (as iamthedudeman loves to flaunt >_<), maybe they are getting it thinking it has more email functionality than Blackberries, maybe they got a deal with Apple that makes them even cheaper than anything else!? Who knows why they do it?! They have to be careful though because they are bringing a device that hasn't been tested thoroughly like something like BB OS or Symbian. I'm thinking on getting my 8th iPhone this weekend, but this device still seems to much like a proof-of-concept with all the things it missing (which doesn't seem mind). Different phones for different folks I guess. It's a great device, and I don't doubt it will enjoy a great amount of success, but making it sound like it will take over the world and everyone else will have to buy one is just silly. I actually love whenever Apple get bad press (iPhones getting hot, cracked, and dropping calls like flies because of the RF), it forces Apple to respect the amount of work that goes into making a solid 3G handset instead of boasting that it has the market all tied up. It doesn't matter though, people nowadays don't even care about solid devices anymore, all they care about is something that brands the media player as an "iPod" and has 3G!!! so it must be fast!!1 Sure it's tightly integrated with iTunes and the whole Apple universe, but as seamless integration goes up, the liberty to do what ever you want on your device goes down. |
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Originally Posted by dallastt
I'd like to gather up a bunch of old n95s and make a fort out of them.
****ing bricks lulz |
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Originally Posted by RogerPodacter
i didnt realize how much of a brick my n95 was until i bought an e71, which even makes the iphone look large lol. e71 is actually smaller and thinner than the iphone. though dont be fooled. here's a shocker, the n95 next to the original motorola razr is IDENTICAL in length and width. and the n95 is only 4 or 5 mm thicker. how crazy is THAT? i've got a moto razr from my company work phone, and i laid them on the desk and couldnt believe it. so the n95 is really an impressive device for its size considering all the functions it gives you.
mobileobsession, the learning curve on s60 does exist; you're right. i sometimes forget cause i've used it for a bit now. kinda got frustrated when others dont just "get it" right away, when i was confused for weeks on s60 at first. i think it will always have the learning curve for facts like it can multi task, so you have a task manager and running apps to deal with. though the menu structure is similar to any other "dumb" phone that's been on the market ever since cell phones first were invented. |
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Originally Posted by JonnyBruha
Perhaps there should be a pre-qual for posting in threads like these that weeds out users who haven't used both devices being compared.
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Originally Posted by huntm856
I've said something like this before, either on this thread or on another, but people are repeating the same points so I will too.
iPhone appeals to people who want the things they do with their devices to be intuitive and beautiful. S60 appeals to people who don't care as much about elegance of function, and care more about total utility. So the devices are designed to appeal to two very different sorts of users. Comparing them is like apples and oranges, or like trying to say which is the better sport, American football or football. To people who are taken by the ease and elegance of use and beautiful screen of the iPhone, a phone like an N95 or even an E71 will always seem quaint and sort of obsolete in a way. To people who have owned high-end S60 phones and used them to a good extent of their capabilities, the iPhone will always seem crippled, both in terms of its inherent capabiliities and in terms of the strictures around its aftermarket. So this thread provides an interesting and entertaining place for people to argue, but it is not an argument that really has much point to it. People are more or less arguing past each other. As to Nokia's foray into touch interface, I think that given the mania surrounding iPhone and other touch interfaces, the way they have been embraced by users and hyped by the tech press, they have to make developments in that area, they'd be foolish not to. But I also think that it is not going to change Nokia's basic approach to handset/device development and marketing. They aren't about to throw out S60 and start over with millions of devoted users in the market. The S60 touch interface Nokia is developing as an overlay on its basic OS/interface is a good metaphor for Nokia's approach to developing touch interface in general, I think: overlay new touch-based products over existing product line <--> overlay touch interface over existing interface. And I for one am glad. When did everyone come to a consensus that touch interfaces are the sine qua non of mobile device design? I do not like them. I prefer WinMo Std to WinMo Pro, and have played with the iPhone and though it's...nice, I don't particularly care for it. Anything mobile makes you pull out a stylus to use it and/or is only really efficiently usable using two hands is not for me, requires too much effort and *focus* to use. Until someone comes up with a touch interface you can use one-handed, maybe a wrist phone or something, I will stick to keys. |
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Originally Posted by dallastt
I agree, nice post man.
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You are too kind. 
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Originally Posted by dallastt
I agree, nice post man.
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Originally Posted by dallastt
For ME I choose the iphone.
Browser is top notch, I do wish I had cut and paste, but otherwise perfect. QWERTY This makes my 5th or 6th "iPod" so I'm very used to itunes. I travel quite a bit. using this as an media device is very easy (like any apple product) I really enjoy the App store and all of the PROFESSIONAL made apps for it. I use the Push email feature w/ Gmail and Mail2web.com. No way I can type emails all day on T9. I also really like the N95, but I don't think it's fast enough and S60 is not as stable as it should be. Oh I also have mine Jailbroke and unlocked on Tmobile's network. I'm using 4 of them w/ Tzones for $300 a month. I could not even began to think what the same plan w/ AT&T would be. ( unlimited txt and min) |
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Originally Posted by JonnyBruha
At the very least, I've never had an unrealistic reception problem (only due to having an imported phone) with any Nokias, I've never had one crack and break on me due to normal usage, and I've never had one burn through the casing. Build quality has always been the iPhone's strong point, but I never thought we would have to be concerned with build safety.
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Originally Posted by huntm856
I've said something like this before, either on this thread or on another, but people are repeating the same points so I will too.
iPhone appeals to people who want the things they do with their devices to be intuitive and beautiful. S60 appeals to people who don't care as much about elegance of function, and care more about total utility. So the devices are designed to appeal to two very different sorts of users. Comparing them is like apples and oranges, or like trying to say which is the better sport, American football or football. To people who are taken by the ease and elegance of use and beautiful screen of the iPhone, a phone like an N95 or even an E71 will always seem quaint and sort of obsolete in a way. To people who have owned high-end S60 phones and used them to a good extent of their capabilities, the iPhone will always seem crippled, both in terms of its inherent capabiliities and in terms of the strictures around its aftermarket. So this thread provides an interesting and entertaining place for people to argue, but it is not an argument that really has much point to it. People are more or less arguing past each other. As to Nokia's foray into touch interface, I think that given the mania surrounding iPhone and other touch interfaces, the way they have been embraced by users and hyped by the tech press, they have to make developments in that area, they'd be foolish not to. But I also think that it is not going to change Nokia's basic approach to handset/device development and marketing. They aren't about to throw out S60 and start over with millions of devoted users in the market. The S60 touch interface Nokia is developing as an overlay on its basic OS/interface is a good metaphor for Nokia's approach to developing touch interface in general, I think: overlay new touch-based products over existing product line <--> overlay touch interface over existing interface. And I for one am glad. When did everyone come to a consensus that touch interfaces are the sine qua non of mobile device design? I do not like them. I prefer WinMo Std to WinMo Pro, and have played with the iPhone and though it's...nice, I don't particularly care for it. Anything mobile makes you pull out a stylus to use it and/or is only really efficiently usable using two hands is not for me, requires too much effort and *focus* to use. Until someone comes up with a touch interface you can use one-handed, maybe a wrist phone or something, I will stick to keys. |
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Originally Posted by Michael-Dallas
I didn't realize there was an iPhone / N95 grudge until after I got my N95-4. The iPhone wasn't even on my radar for consideration. It has a nice user-experience and interface, but it has low usability for me.
I wanted an upgrade from my K790a and the N95-4 satisfied my requirements very nicely. What I mean by upgrade, I mean existing features that are important to me plus more; otherwise, I wouldn't bother upgrading. In my case, a good camera was important and the N95-4 had a better camera plus 3G, HTML browser, GPS, bigger screen. Yeah, iPhone has all those pluses to, but it lacked the main feature that was important to me, the camera. The iPhone has a coolness factor/aura, but it wore off pretty quick w/ me. Seemed very gimmicky to me. I prefer the tactile feel of buttons over touch screen anyway. My g/f and her lady friends love their iPhones though. I about fell off my chair when we registered her iPhone and it fiscally upgraded our data plan. It used to be $20/mo (she had the old MEdia Works data/txt/mms plan) now it's like $30/mo for just data/txt. Pay more for less? WTF is that all about. ///Michael |
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Originally Posted by ddsdude
Feature-for-feature, the N95 spanks the iphone silly. Having said that, I have both an N95 8GB and ipod touch (a phoneless / cameraless iphone). I use the ipod touch far more than the N95. Why?
1. WiFi - ipod/iphone seems to have a more sensitive wifi receiver and picks up weaker signals FAR better than the N95. I often compare them side by side in a weak signal area. The N95 will not pick up the signal at all while the ipod picks it up and connects allowing full internet functionality. 2. Bigger screen on ipod - better for movies, browsing, etc. 3. FAR nicer interface on ipod - I find the virtual QWERTY much faster to use than T9 aside from the other niceties of a multitouch screen 4. Growing list of great apps and games for the iphone. If I were a developer, I'd put my money on the iphone. And btw, TomTom dropped S60 development after ver. 6. The only things I really use the N95 for are calls (as ipod touch has no cell radio), GPS and cam. Once TomTom drops for the iphone 3G, it's going to be a tough phone to resist. The N95 was a killer phone 2 years ago when announced but it's getting VERY long in the tooth. The interface is simply too archaic to withstand the newest stuff from HTC, SE, Samsung and of course, Apple. |
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Originally Posted by huntm856
I've said something like this before, either on this thread or on another, but people are repeating the same points so I will too.
iPhone appeals to people who want the things they do with their devices to be intuitive and beautiful. S60 appeals to people who don't care as much about elegance of function, and care more about total utility. So the devices are designed to appeal to two very different sorts of users. Comparing them is like apples and oranges, or like trying to say which is the better sport, American football or football. To people who are taken by the ease and elegance of use and beautiful screen of the iPhone, a phone like an N95 or even an E71 will always seem quaint and sort of obsolete in a way. To people who have owned high-end S60 phones and used them to a good extent of their capabilities, the iPhone will always seem crippled, both in terms of its inherent capabiliities and in terms of the strictures around its aftermarket. So this thread provides an interesting and entertaining place for people to argue, but it is not an argument that really has much point to it. People are more or less arguing past each other. As to Nokia's foray into touch interface, I think that given the mania surrounding iPhone and other touch interfaces, the way they have been embraced by users and hyped by the tech press, they have to make developments in that area, they'd be foolish not to. But I also think that it is not going to change Nokia's basic approach to handset/device development and marketing. They aren't about to throw out S60 and start over with millions of devoted users in the market. The S60 touch interface Nokia is developing as an overlay on its basic OS/interface is a good metaphor for Nokia's approach to developing touch interface in general, I think: overlay new touch-based products over existing product line <--> overlay touch interface over existing interface. And I for one am glad. When did everyone come to a consensus that touch interfaces are the sine qua non of mobile device design? I do not like them. I prefer WinMo Std to WinMo Pro, and have played with the iPhone and though it's...nice, I don't particularly care for it. Anything mobile makes you pull out a stylus to use it and/or is only really efficiently usable using two hands is not for me, requires too much effort and *focus* to use. Until someone comes up with a touch interface you can use one-handed, maybe a wrist phone or something, I will stick to keys. |
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Originally Posted by Silent Witness
Well said. I agree with everything.
Nokia made the better "phone" with the N95, but a jailbroken iPhone / iPod Touch is very fun to use as a portable entertainment device. If you are not talking on the phone, the Apple product is the better time-killer. I love playing chess and blackjack on it. It is also a better video player, music organizer, and photo viewer. It makes a solid PDA backup. Looking at the N96, it looks like Nokia is just rehashing the N95 with a different cheap plastic case. iPhone acts like a toy, N95 is built like a toy. Just don't waste your time with the current iPhone 3G. Very bad press as of late, People want to carry just one device, but don't realize that having two devices lessens the burden on the batteries. If my Touch dies, the music still continues with my Nokia. Carrying the iPhone charger just for the device to last a day sorta defeats the purpose of wanting to carry around just one device. |
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Originally Posted by AngusG
I agree... except Nokia have said many times the N96 is not meant to be a replacement as the flagship model for the N95..
I'm considering getting a 32GB touch for my music... it's a big call though.. lot of money :S:S |
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Originally Posted by AngusG
I agree... except Nokia have said many times the N96 is not meant to be a replacement as the flagship model for the N95..
I'm considering getting a 32GB touch for my music... it's a big call though.. lot of money :S:S |
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Originally Posted by mobileobsession
Which begs the question, what will be Nokia's flagship N-Series model. We already know the "Tube", which will debut the S60 Touch platform is going to be midrange in terms of features. I hope they put something out with a VGA screen and a Xenon flash.
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Originally Posted by JoeyDee
Which makes me hope a true replacement of the N95 with a higher res screen is on the radar...
I played around with an N95, and I personally like the thickness, its kinda wierd, but its sort of like a feel that theres more power to it :P |
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Originally Posted by JoeyDee
'Midrange' isnt really a bad term... wanna bet Nokia doesnt even consider the iPhone to be 'midrange' feature wise? :P
I think they need something with an 8MP camera, theres something about Samsung having the top spec'd phone in the world with the Innov8 that really irks me. |
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Originally Posted by mobileobsession
The thickness in the N95 isn't bad considering the functionality of the slide out keypad and the added player controls with shifts the orientation. Of course an accelerometer would be a bit more elegant for that function though.
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Originally Posted by JoeyDee
'Midrange' isnt really a bad term... wanna bet Nokia doesnt even consider the iPhone to be 'midrange' feature wise? :P
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Originally Posted by JoeyDee
Which makes me hope a true replacement of the N95 with a higher res screen is on the radar...
I played around with an N95, and I personally like the thickness, its kinda wierd, but its sort of like a feel that theres more power to it :P |
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Originally Posted by huntm856
Or do you just mean accelerometer-modulated orientation? The rotateMe app adds accelerometer-modulated orientation to the device. Though unsigned, it's entirely stable, and has a very small memory footprint, so it can be run with an essentially negligible effect on the device's performance.
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Originally Posted by Silent Witness
Well said. I agree with everything.
Nokia made the better "phone" with the N95, but a jailbroken iPhone / iPod Touch is very fun to use as a portable entertainment device. If you are not talking on the phone, the Apple product is the better time-killer. I love playing chess and blackjack on it. It is also a better video player, music organizer, and photo viewer. It makes a solid PDA backup. Looking at the N96, it looks like Nokia is just rehashing the N95 with a different cheap plastic case. iPhone acts like a toy, N95 is built like a toy. Just don't waste your time with the current iPhone 3G. Very bad press as of late, People want to carry just one device, but don't realize that having two devices lessens the burden on the batteries. If my Touch dies, the music still continues with my Nokia. Carrying the iPhone charger just for the device to last a day sorta defeats the purpose of wanting to carry around just one device. |
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Originally Posted by RogerPodacter
I like the n95 thickness surprisingly. Now that I have the thin e71 I realized its almost TOO thin. It hurts my hand and it cramps on long calls holding phone to my ear. The n95 is so much more comfortable. I always said the n95 is the most economically correct phone. The button layout and feel just seems perfect.
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Originally Posted by Silent Witness
Well said. I agree with everything.
Nokia made the better "phone" with the N95, but a jailbroken iPhone / iPod Touch is very fun to use as a portable entertainment device. If you are not talking on the phone, the Apple product is the better time-killer. I love playing chess and blackjack on it. It is also a better video player, music organizer, and photo viewer. It makes a solid PDA backup. Looking at the N96, it looks like Nokia is just rehashing the N95 with a different cheap plastic case. iPhone acts like a toy, N95 is built like a toy. Just don't waste your time with the current iPhone 3G. Very bad press as of late, People want to carry just one device, but don't realize that having two devices lessens the burden on the batteries. If my Touch dies, the music still continues with my Nokia. Carrying the iPhone charger just for the device to last a day sorta defeats the purpose of wanting to carry around just one device. |
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Originally Posted by JoeyDee
I think they need something with an 8MP camera, theres something about Samsung having the top spec'd phone in the world with the Innov8 that really irks me.
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Originally Posted by AngusG
**Sigh**
There's rumours that ASR willl be built into the next N95 firmware... Also note that the thread title is iPhone 3G vs N95 8GB? Auto rotation's been built into the 8GB's firmware for sometime now... |
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Originally Posted by AngusG
There's been a bit of discussion about the camera in the new Samsung.. It doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be better.. All the 8MP means it will be able to take bigger photos, which potentially means more noise as well..
The N95's autofocus and the level of noise it creates along with the Carl Zeiss lens makes it hard to beat... I don't bother taking my Pentax Optio S50 with me any more unless I know there's a very good possibility I'll need it.. |
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Originally Posted by M5Rahul
Great points Mib.... However, just wait for another icrap fanatic to post one or more of the following rebuttals :
.. ' but.. it's the superior USER experience on my Jesus iPhone' or ' Your N95 is still a Brick !!..AND it's fugly ' or ' Why do I need a 5 MP camera when I can carry my 4 yr old Canon SD 450 which takes better pics than your N95 'or ' There are alot more apps in DEVELOPMENT for my Jesus phone... Just WAIT till they're out !!!' etc etc etc... Seriously.. there must be a free ' iPhone Cult ' lifetime membership card included with it's purchase... |
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Originally Posted by AngusG
Seems to be an increasingly general consensus that the N95 and iPod touch is the happy medium.. Gonna wait till the next gen touches before jumping on the bandwagon though...
Wonder what will happen once Google Android gets thrown into the mix.. |
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Originally Posted by mobileobsession
I'm guessing that the next gen Touch will have GPS and hopefully available turn-by-turn software available for it. I guess we shall see...
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Originally Posted by mobileobsession
I'm guessing that the next gen Touch will have GPS and hopefully available turn-by-turn software available for it. I guess we shall see...
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Originally Posted by jose1983
i think when the iphone can send mms and flash for their website we can finally decide if the iphone its better.
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Originally Posted by dimsum05
The problem with iPhone is not the camera, or the mms, or the lack of A2DP. It's Apple.
They made this device for the average consumer, not power users. |
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Originally Posted by AngusG
Yeah no MMS wtf.. It's the new right click
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Originally Posted by jose1983
i think when the iphone can send mms and flash for their website we can finally decide if the iphone its better.
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Originally Posted by Slapshot47
?
Threads like this make me wonder if people really understand the iPhone. Clue: it's not a phone; it's a mobile computing platform that happens to have a phone in it. Apple will even sell you one without a phone in it (the iPod Touch). Comparing the iPhone merely as a phone is the equivalent of tying one hand behind its back. Similarly, comparing it with things like the Instinct is simply missing the point. The iPhone is a platform. The Nokia phone is not. Symbian is a platform, but a lousy one because it is spread out over countless numbers of devices that have radically different hardware specs and fixed UIs (as well as being a joke compared to mobile OS X and Android, by all accounts). Anyone who writes a program for the iPhone knows exactly how it will work on every single device. It's much the same as when you buy a game for your console or a piece of software for your PC or Mac. Both you and the seller can be sure that it will work as intended. Standardized software works on PCs and consoles because the hardware and UI is standardized. That's what Apple has and none of its competitors have. Apple has a mobile computing platform. None of the others do. The N95 isn't because it is just one model of Symbian phone among hundreds if not thousands of others with no standardized hardware. I've seen some of the software available for these devices and it is a joke (much like desktop linux really). If you buy the Nokia phone, you are investing in a smartphone. If you buy the iPhone you are investing in a mobile computing platform, which is very early in its lifespan (like a newly released console) and looks to have some potential. The Nokia is arguably a better telephone than the iPhone, but the iPhone is a proper mobile computing platform and the Nokia isn't under any reasonable use of that term (because it isn't a platform itself, and Symbian sucks as a platform). If you compare a specialized device with a multipurpose device in terms of the function of the specialized device, then you are being slightly dishonest and missing the point. Even talking about the iPhone on a phone forum is misleading. There isn't really a name for iPhone class devices yet. |
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Originally Posted by Slapshot47
?
Threads like this make me wonder if people really understand the iPhone. Clue: it's not a phone; it's a mobile computing platform that happens to have a phone in it. Apple will even sell you one without a phone in it (the iPod Touch). Comparing the iPhone merely as a phone is the equivalent of tying one hand behind its back. Similarly, comparing it with things like the Instinct is simply missing the point. The iPhone is a platform. The Nokia phone is not. Symbian is a platform, but a lousy one because it is spread out over countless numbers of devices that have radically different hardware specs and fixed UIs (as well as being a joke compared to mobile OS X and Android, by all accounts). Anyone who writes a program for the iPhone knows exactly how it will work on every single device. It's much the same as when you buy a game for your console or a piece of software for your PC or Mac. Both you and the seller can be sure that it will work as intended. Standardized software works on PCs and consoles because the hardware and UI is standardized. That's what Apple has and none of its competitors have. Apple has a mobile computing platform. None of the others do. The N95 isn't because it is just one model of Symbian phone among hundreds if not thousands of others with no standardized hardware. I've seen some of the software available for these devices and it is a joke (much like desktop linux really). |
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If you buy the Nokia phone, you are investing in a smartphone. If you buy the iPhone you are investing in a mobile computing platform, which is very early in its lifespan (like a newly released console) and looks to have some potential. |
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The Nokia is arguably a better telephone than the iPhone, but the iPhone is a proper mobile computing platform and the Nokia isn't under any reasonable use of that term (because it isn't a platform itself, and Symbian sucks as a platform). If you compare a specialized device with a multipurpose device in terms of the function of the specialized device, then you are being slightly dishonest and missing the point. Even talking about the iPhone on a phone forum is misleading. There isn't really a name for iPhone class devices yet. |
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Originally Posted by mib1800
Dont we already have many "mobile" computing platforms. The notebook and the umpc that I have been carrying around for few years now is much better at mobile computing than Iphone. Even the nokia N800/810 tablet triumphs the Iphone in every other way (except that you can't make call). So what is the point of iphone without the "phone" part? And we know at this moment, Iphone sucks at being a phone.
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Originally Posted by Slapshot47
?
Threads like this make me wonder if people really understand the iPhone. |
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Originally Posted by dm30
I don't understand this anti iPhone fanboyism.
The iPhone is by far the best browser on a phone. It still isn't even close. iPhone may not be the best phone but it's a good phone. If all you want is a bunch of settings you can tweek on a phone. Then maybe the nokia is your phone. If you see value on being able to surf the web while away from your computer, then the iPhone is the only answer. |
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Originally Posted by dm30
I don't understand this anti iPhone fanboyism.
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'...The iPhone is an interesting new phone. Not quite a smartphone, and lacking the capabilities of smartphones in some significant ways, it has a beautiful screen, a great (if limited) browser, and a truly revolutionary interface. It has and will continue to profoundly change the high-end phone market, and has put the other manufacturers in the high-end mobile market on notice....'
| The iPhone is by far the best browser on a phone. |
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Originally Posted by migo
I'm surprised at the lengths people will go to to defend the iPhone. The N95 seems to have a few downsides - no touch screen, it's big, and it's ugly (according to some). Nobody really argues those points. The iPhone, being unable to copy and paste isn't a proper computing platform. With the horrible camera the only thing it could be used for is MMS, and that's disabled. Without Flash it's not even a proper web browser. The iPhone is vaporware that's partially condensed.
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Originally Posted by mobileobsession
I hear the camera response is rather slow on the N95 and it only has an LED Flash.
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| Although the N96 will still have a a LED flash, hopefully the camera will have faster response time. If the N96 had a Xenon flash it would be close to perfect. |
| Actually I'm kind of hoping for a NAM compatible N82, because of the Xenon Flash and the camera feature. |
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Originally Posted by dm30
I don't understand this anti iPhone fanboyism.
The iPhone is by far the best browser on a phone. It still isn't even close. iPhone may not be the best phone but it's a good phone. If all you want is a bunch of settings you can tweek on a phone. Then maybe the nokia is your phone. If you see value on being able to surf the web while away from your computer, then the iPhone is the only answer. |
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Originally Posted by mobileobsession
In terms of touchscreen, UI and other innovations like the use of an accelerometer, the iPhone/3G/iTouch is top notch, more than a year ahead of the competition at least and definitely a significant disruptive factor in the mobile phone market.
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Originally Posted by migo
and low volume is something of a deal breaker in that dept.
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Originally Posted by huntm856
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Originally Posted by AngusG
I hope Steve Jobs is paying you for that...
Clue: It makes and receives calls, it sends and receives text messages.. It's a mobile phone dude.. |
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Originally Posted by mib1800
The real joke here is for iphone you dont really need to have to go to different hardware for software to break. Many of those software written for v1.1.4 are now NOT working on v2.0.
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at the end of every paragraph. If you want to do that, go post on Youtube.| Dont we already have many "mobile" computing platforms. The notebook and the umpc that I have been carrying around for few years now is much better at mobile computing than Iphone. Even the nokia N800/810 tablet triumphs the Iphone in every other way (except that you can't make call). So what is the point of iphone without the "phone" part? And we know at this moment, Iphone sucks at being a phone. |
| You are the one who is confused or mislead. A "smart" mobile platform is of no use if you can't make use it to make a converged device. Even with Symbian many shortcomings, at this moment it is still a much more powerful platform than Iphone's. Symbian is so complete that you can used it in many differnt type of devices from the premium to a mid-range phone. |
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Originally Posted by casperr
I have both phones, iphone's sound is low, compared to N95, very very noticeable.
Normal browsing, iphone wins, but with flash sites like break.com, veoh.com etc, N95 wins due to skyfire browser. Screen, I love iphone's since its huge. Camera and video which I use a lot, there is even NO COMPARISON, iphone pales in comparison, big time. And so much more. Everything else? I have to give it to N95, wins in the features dept and with way more than apps and games cracked, N95 is still above. THis is the reason why my iphone is just an itouch for me. I dont put a sim on it |
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Originally Posted by dm30
Let me get this straight. You signed up for a 2 or 3 year commitment to use an iPhone as a iPod touch, even though you already have an expensive phone you like better. But you can't afford to buy a decent camera?
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Originally Posted by Slapshot47
I take it you mean that Apple isn't supporting apps for jailbroken phones. Why on earth do you think they would?
Also, only cretins use at the end of every paragraph. If you want to do that, go post on Youtube.Why don't you try reading posts before you fail at replying? Notebooks are platforms because they have standardized hardware, software and UI. Any piece of software you buy that says "Windows compatible" will run on your device in exactly the same way it will run on any other device on the same platform. That's why development on these platforms is so strong. Do all Symbian devices have the same hardware? No. Do all Symbian devices have the same UI? No. Do they all have the same software. Looking back, the answer is still no. Therefore, Symbian is not a unified platform in the sense that Windows for PC or Mac OS X is. This is a simple fact. Merely having the same OS does not make something a platform. As such, the Nokia N95 is simply not in the same class of devices as the iPhone, because it doesn't embody a unified platform. That's not to say that Nokia can't make it into such a platform. Indeed they probably will, because that is exactly what Google is doing with Android. There is supposed to be common hardware and UI to support the common system. Nokia will probably do this, but as of right now they aren't even close. Hence comparing the N95 or any Symbian based device to an iPhone isn't much of a comparison. Learn to read. There is no Symbian platform in the sense of common software added to a unified hardware platform and UI. Symbian is not like desktop windows, Mac OS, or Mobile Mac OS in this respect (or even like game consoles). Even Blackberry isn't quite there, since they have a range of devices with different hardware, making it difficult to develop worthwhile software for all of them. Until you get it into your head that merely having the same software does not make something a unified software platform for mobile computing, you will continue to be wrong. It's not about being an iPhile, but about recognizing simple facts. As I said, it makes no sense to compare them because they are different kinds of device. |
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Originally Posted by Slapshot47
I take it you mean that Apple isn't supporting apps for jailbroken phones. Why on earth do you think they would?
Also, only cretins use at the end of every paragraph. If you want to do that, go post on Youtube.Why don't you try reading posts before you fail at replying? Notebooks are platforms because they have standardized hardware, software and UI. Any piece of software you buy that says "Windows compatible" will run on your device in exactly the same way it will run on any other device on the same platform. That's why development on these platforms is so strong. Do all Symbian devices have the same hardware? No. Do all Symbian devices have the same UI? No. Do they all have the same software. Looking back, the answer is still no. Therefore, Symbian is not a unified platform in the sense that Windows for PC or Mac OS X is. This is a simple fact. Merely having the same OS does not make something a platform. As such, the Nokia N95 is simply not in the same class of devices as the iPhone, because it doesn't embody a unified platform. That's not to say that Nokia can't make it into such a platform. Indeed they probably will, because that is exactly what Google is doing with Android. There is supposed to be common hardware and UI to support the common system. Nokia will probably do this, but as of right now they aren't even close. Hence comparing the N95 or any Symbian based device to an iPhone isn't much of a comparison. Learn to read. There is no Symbian platform in the sense of common software added to a unified hardware platform and UI. Symbian is not like desktop windows, Mac OS, or Mobile Mac OS in this respect (or even like game consoles). Even Blackberry isn't quite there, since they have a range of devices with different hardware, making it difficult to develop worthwhile software for all of them. Until you get it into your head that merely having the same software does not make something a unified software platform for mobile computing, you will continue to be wrong. It's not about being an iPhile, but about recognizing simple facts. As I said, it makes no sense to compare them because they are different kinds of device. |
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Originally Posted by dm30
Let me get this straight. You signed up for a 2 or 3 year commitment to use an iPhone as a iPod touch, even though you already have an expensive phone you like better. But you can't afford to buy a decent camera?
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Originally Posted by Slapshot47
No it isn't. It's the one of Apple's two lines of ultra mobile computer that happens to have a phone in it.
The iPod Touch doesn't do those things, but it is the same platform and OS as the iPhone. Are you usually this easy to beat in an argument? |
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Originally Posted by AngusG
Jobs has you hooked line and sinker mate..
I refuse to have an argument with someone who can't call a spade a spade.. |
How about a N96 vs Iphone 3G thread. Or Android vs N96 or Iphone 3g. The N95 is getting a little long in the tooth. Old news.
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Originally Posted by iamthedudeman
Is this the same thread from a year ago? Or a different N95 vs Iphone thread. Seriously, haven't they been compared enough?
How about a N96 vs Iphone 3G thread. Or Android vs N96 or Iphone 3g. The N95 is getting a little long in the tooth. Old news. |
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Originally Posted by dm30
Let me get this straight. You signed up for a 2 or 3 year commitment to use an iPhone as a iPod touch, even though you already have an expensive phone you like better. But you can't afford to buy a decent camera?
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Originally Posted by casperr
This reply failed. This is the kind of reply from someone you knew can't come up with a good response, just assuming and putting words into someone else's mouth.
Why would you assume I dont have a decent camera? Just because I said N95's camera owns Iphone's? LOL. I bring my cellphones everywhere I go, I dont do the same with my camera. If that alone doesnt tell you why the camera on N95 is important to me, then you dont have any business replying to any of my posts because your brain is just dead. And with renewing the contract as for iPhone? Again, another assumption that I signed up for one when I can get iTouch. I renewed my contract 3 months ago, and I am eligible again for a renewal. I can get the iPhone for much cheaper than a brand new iTouch (not refurbished) and that's only with 3 months extension to my contract, if you were smart, which way would you have gone with? Again, stop assuming and putting words into someone else's mouth because you are just going to look like an idiot. I said my comparison without being biased because I use both for their own purpose, except that N95 is a much better phone overall. |
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Originally Posted by huntm856
'...The iPhone is an interesting new phone. Not quite a smartphone, and lacking the capabilities of smartphones in some significant ways, it has a beautiful screen, a great (if limited) browser, and a truly revolutionary interface. It has and will continue to profoundly change the high-end phone market, and has put the other manufacturers in the high-end mobile market on notice....' |
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Originally Posted by JonnyBruha
On the other hand, it isn't fair to compare the iPhone either since there's only two variations of it with differing sizes of internal memory, all from the same manufacturer, and you will never see anything but an Apple device running mobile OSX. In this regard, it's as proprietary as the N95's firmware version is specific to the N95. And please don't start the argument about the iPhone running OSX like a desktop. We've heard it enough times.
Comparing "platforms" overall doesn't make too much sense from PC to smartphone. Computers running a "unified platform" like Windows can do so because of how extensively large the collection of hardware and drivers for that hardware exist. You don't see people rebuilding any smartphones like you can a desktop, so in this respect, none of the smartphone OS's can be considered a platform. They all have specific firmware with specific drivers to that devices hardware. |
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Originally Posted by AngusG
Yeah... It's like they try to come up with new arguments as to why it's the be all to end all... And when they're proven wrong with that theory, they milk it to it's last legs, and then try a different avenue...
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Originally Posted by AngusG
Jobs has you hooked line and sinker mate..
I refuse to have an argument with someone who can't call a spade a spade.. |
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Originally Posted by JonnyBruha
Yes, more powerful, yet less capable. We've already argued about this.
My response was using his definition. I know what a platform is. |
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Originally Posted by JonnyBruha
What has HE said that's worth arguing about? He thinks QWERTY is the only input method for a browser, he stated the iPhone doesn't have low volume, which users of new and old versions have repeatedly reported otherwise, and he knocked someone for not being able to afford a camera. Just because he's in your corner doesn't mean he's worth backing up.
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Originally Posted by JonnyBruha
Again, what I stated was using his definition of platform. If you're going to nitpick that each S60 device is running different software due to the hardware variation, then none of the smartphone OS's are platforms for the same reason. But that's not the case at all.
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Originally Posted by iamthedudeman
What have you said in rebuttal to dm30's post? What he said is spot on. Why not try coming with some facts instead of your opinion. Opinions are like you know what.
The iphone cannot do MMS, Copy and Paste, Stereo Bluetooth, etc. Do you really think that is a limitation of OSX on the iphone? It is a limitation Apple set on the OS because it wants to control how and why you use your phone. Locked down. Not open. It doesn't mean it's not capable of doing all the above mentioned and more if apple allowed it. That is a fact that many of you don't seem to grasp. |
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Originally Posted by iamthedudeman
This thread needs to die. A better comparison would be a Samsung SGH-G810 with 16gb internal mem to the N96 with the same both running Symbian. .
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Originally Posted by iamthedudeman
What have you said in rebuttal to dm30's post? What he said is spot on. Why not try coming with some facts instead of your opinion. Opinions are like you know what.
The iphone cannot do MMS, Copy and Paste, Stereo Bluetooth, etc. Do you really think that is a limitation of OSX on the iphone? It is a limitation Apple set on the OS because it wants to control how and why you use your phone. Locked down. Not open. It doesn't mean it's not capable of doing all the above mentioned and more if apple allowed it. That is a fact that many of you don't seem to grasp. |
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Originally Posted by iamthedudeman
Seriously, haven't they been compared enough?
How about a N96 vs Iphone 3G thread. |
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Originally Posted by dm30
Most folks on that thread say the iPhone's browser is the best on a phone.
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| I never said its the best compared to a computer. Its missing flash and Java support. My biggest issue is that it crashes way too often. But they'll fix that sooner or later. |
| Its the best because... it has the biggest screen. |
| Ok, its a big screen for a phone but still pretty small. Next thing you need is the easiest way possible to move around that screen. Apple has done that with the iPhone. I haven't seen or heard of anyone coming close to that yet. |
| Flash is a tough one. I certainly don't miss the ads. I don't know how you'd control CPU consumption the way people make flash so annoying on websites. |
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Originally Posted by iamthedudeman
This thread needs to die. A better comparison would be a Samsung SGH-G810 with 16gb internal mem to the N96 with the same both running Symbian.
Android HTC "dream' vs 3g iphone. Both touch screen with Mobile OS platforms. That is a comparison. The N95 is a power user device, more capable, for now. The iphone is a device for entertainment for the masses with a powerfull OS that is crippled not having yet reached it's potential. You will not catch a "grandma' using a N95, but you will catch her using a "iphone". Sad but true. Not even a comparison. |
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Originally Posted by migo
You're a moron. The thread is based on both phones being offered at the same subsidised price by the same carrier. The availability of other phones is irrelevant due to their comparitively high price.
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Originally Posted by mib1800
Even if OSX do have the code to do real multi-tasking it wouldnt matter as there is no legal (or illegal) way to make real multi-tasking works in Iphone. Until the time when Apple allows all those things, Iphone OSX is basically crippled compared to the S60/WM. I think you should grasp this fact and stop repeating the myth that Iphone OSX is more powerful OS than S60/WM.
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Originally Posted by huntm856
Not a comparison in terms of capability? Or in terms of commercial success? I agree, on both counts, BTW; I just want to understand your point.
Are you saying that it doesn't make sense to compare a feature phone to a smartphone? A touchscreen phone to a button-and-menu phone? A phone pointed at a mass market to a phone designed for power users? |
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Originally Posted by huntm856
N96 is essentially a refresh of the N95, with 8gb of internal storage in addition to a card slot, and a slightly bigger screen.
This being the case, the iPhone's shortcomings with respect to it would be the same, but with one of the iPhone's big advantages with respect to the N95 having been eliminated. So it looks like an even more unfavorable comparison for the iPhone as far as I can see. |
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Originally Posted by iamthedudeman
The iphone has one thing that the N96 does not, the UI and OS. Crippled yes, but once the "crippling' is removed, you have a much more capable and robust OS on your hands.
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.. thanks for the humor!! 
| How would you know there is no legal or illegal way to multi-task on the iphone. It runs OSX, or coarse it can multitask. Apple controls what multi-tasking that can be done on the phone. OSX is more powerful of a OS than Symbian. That is no myth. A Mobile OS is more powerful than a smartphone OS. OS 2008 running on the Nokia N810 is more powerful than Symbian. OS 2008 is a mobile version of Linux. OSX running on the iphone is a mobile version of OSX. Both are more powerful than Symbian. |
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Originally Posted by mib1800
@iamthedudeman
How do you know "OSX" inside Iphone can support full co-operative multi-tasking? Nobody has any idea how stripped down the Iphone version is compared to the mac osx and yet you treat the Iphone OSX as the same as mac osx. And you differentiate "smart os" or "mobile os" which don't make sense. Is there really so much different? Symbian "smart" os today is more powerful than Windows 3.1/95 "desktop" OS. For me, how powerful an OS is depends on the services/capabilty supported by the OS and unlike your watery definition that a stripped down desktop OS is definitely more powerful than an OS built from scratch for a mobile. Maybe you want to check the dict or something on operating system technology. While you are at it you may want to do a qualitative analysis on what Iphone OSX has that makes it better than the other OS. And please dont give us "a stripped down version of the desktop OSX is more powerful than anything anyone has done on a mobile ever " argument which has become so stale that it reaches the point of being rotten. |
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Originally Posted by M5Rahul
.. thanks for the humor!! On a more serious note.. by the time that 'crippling' is removed, the existing 'usability' gap between Nokia's high end smartphones and iPhone will also have widened by leaps and bounds!! |
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Originally Posted by iamthedudeman
Core Animation which is a application written for OSX on the iphone, was 'ported' to the Mac.
Let that sink in. A application was ported from the Iphone to the Mac. If they were totally different that would not be possible. It would not be possible to port Omnifocus to the Iphone from the Mac. So yes they are more alike then they are different. : |
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Originally Posted by iamthedudeman
No one has any idea how stripped down it is? How about over 200,000 developers. Just watch the keynote, they explain in detail what is running in the iphone. This is not even debatable. Have you been hiding under a rock.
As explained in the last two keynotes, the only difference is the GUI. Cocoa as opposed to Cocoa touch. Thats it. How doesn't a Smartphone OS that was developed for a mobile device only the same as a desktop OS that is modified to fit on a phone? Totally different, like night and day. And no Symbian is not more powerful than Windows 95, as much as you believe this to be true. Symbian has a microkernel as opposed to a full kernel. It shares nothing with a desktop OS. As it has nothing to compare it to since it was never designed to be a desktop OS. A Mobile OS is a desktop OS designed to fit on a mobile device. How hard is that to understand. Really. OS 2008 is Linux that fits on a mobile device. OSX on the iphone is OSX designed to fit on a mobile device. Android is Linux designed to fit on a mobile device. OSX on the iphone uses the same Framework and development tools as Mac on the desktop. Meaning that the same API's are used. You are seeing "desktop quality' applications on the iphone like Omnifocus which runs on the Mac also. Core Animation which is a application written for OSX on the iphone, was 'ported' to the Mac. Let that sink in. A application was ported from the Iphone to the Mac. If they were totally different that would not be possible. It would not be possible to port Omnifocus to the Iphone from the Mac. So yes they are more alike then they are different. I don't think you know what your talking about. Everything I am telling can be verified, check it out for yourself. Or maybe check the "dictionary' for more help. Your clueless. |
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Originally Posted by JonnyBruha
Really, stop repeating yourself. We've all heard it a dozen times. Let's wrap this thread up. The OP already called you a moron. It's pretty clear which device he thinks is better. Mobile OSX has the potential to be more powerful, but due to its restrictions, S60, in its current state, is more powerful. Let's stop talking about it. |
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Originally Posted by iamthedudeman
No one has any idea how stripped down it is? How about over 200,000 developers. Just watch the keynote, they explain in detail what is running in the iphone. This is not even debatable. Have you been hiding under a rock.
As explained in the last two keynotes, the only difference is the GUI. Cocoa as opposed to Cocoa touch. Thats it. How doesn't a Smartphone OS that was developed for a mobile device only the same as a desktop OS that is modified to fit on a phone? Totally different, like night and day. And no Symbian is not more powerful than Windows 95, as much as you believe this to be true. Symbian has a microkernel as opposed to a full kernel. It shares nothing with a desktop OS. As it has nothing to compare it to since it was never designed to be a desktop OS. A Mobile OS is a desktop OS designed to fit on a mobile device. How hard is that to understand. Really. OS 2008 is Linux that fits on a mobile device. OSX on the iphone is OSX designed to fit on a mobile device. Android is Linux designed to fit on a mobile device. OSX on the iphone uses the same Framework and development tools as Mac on the desktop. Meaning that the same API's are used. You are seeing "desktop quality' applications on the iphone like Omnifocus which runs on the Mac also. Core Animation which is a application written for OSX on the iphone, was 'ported' to the Mac. Let that sink in. A application was ported from the Iphone to the Mac. If they were totally different that would not be possible. It would not be possible to port Omnifocus to the Iphone from the Mac. So yes they are more alike then they are different. I don't think you know what your talking about. Everything I am telling can be verified, check it out for yourself. Or maybe check the "dictionary' for more help. Your clueless. |
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Originally Posted by JonnyBruha
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Originally Posted by JonnyBruha
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Originally Posted by DukeL
Please ancient S60 can not touch OSX cocoa. It s prehistoric looking.
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Originally Posted by cokeman73
While I understand your need to prove your right about the Mobile OS, Desktop OS. I can't help but have to tell you all your points are moot. So what it's a desktop OS designed to run on a mobile device. So what if it is easy to use, with some fancy animation. The bottom line Apple has crippled it making it the weaker OS, doesn't matter what it could be or do.
If the iPhone had been designed with WM, Symbian, Android, non of this would be an issue. It would have had the most powerful mobile applications you could throw at it. It wouldn't have been you develop we decide to either reject or allow. Apple is leaning more toward rejecting. Apple will learn sooner or later that locking down the phone will cost them just the way it did with the desktop wars. |
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Originally Posted by migo
You don't understand **** about porting. It's entirely possible to port between completely different platforms. SCUMM has been ported between dozens of completely different OSes. You're just stuck in the small Apple walled garden.
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Originally Posted by JonnyBruha
Really, stop repeating yourself. We've all heard it a dozen times. Let's wrap this thread up. The OP already called you a moron. It's pretty clear which device he thinks is better. Mobile OSX has the potential to be more powerful, but due to its restrictions, S60, in its current state, is more powerful. Let's stop talking about it. |
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Originally Posted by iamthedudeman
When has a smartphone app ever been ported to a desktop? Or a desktop app been directly ported to a smartphone? It never happened and it never will. WM does not run any desktop applications nor does Symbian, or Blackberrry. I am talking about applications, not "virtual machines' which is what SCUMM is. Sorry buddy, but I am currently using and have used just about every smartphone OS out there. Try again, better luck next time.
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Originally Posted by JoeyDee
how many first hand expiriences are there of android and windows mobile 7? I don't get how you can keep comparing s60 with things that arn't out yet or have not had thier full potential realised? Now is what matter, if you keep waiting there's always going to be something better coming out soon.
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Originally Posted by mobileobsession
We can't really draw up any real comparisons until an actual device with those OSs have been released and can actually be used.
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Originally Posted by huntm856
And not even then as far as Apple is concerned. In Apple's case, according to many posts in this forum, it's not the real comparisons of the device's functionality and capabilities that are key; it is the supposed potential of the OS, regardless of whether that potential has been realized, and irrespective of how the owner of the OS has crippled that functionality for business or other reasons.
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Originally Posted by mobileobsession
That's true, for any real comparison we have to compare what a device can do out of the box, not what it can "potentially" do down the road.
In Apple's case I understand why they would want to lock down the file management and application loading to the iTunes/AppStore model, mostly so users will be "greatly encouraged" to purchase content through those models. What makes less sense is why they would lock down or simply not include commonly available features such as copy and paste, MMS, Bluetooth OBEX, A2DP stereo, BT Sync etc. Yeah, I understand, running each program exclusively makes them run faster, but then you lose the functionality of multitasking, which is kind of a cop out if you ask me. Hell, all current Apple iMacs and Macbooks have full Bluetooth functionality, why miss out on the opportunity to cross-sell the higher-end products? My only guess is that they are saving such features for the next generation "new and improved" iPhone. That's Apple's M.O., incrementally improve technology across each generation, seemingly making each previous generation "obsolete". That strategy has worked very well with the Apple's iPod line, and it seems to be working well enough the iPhone line. The only hitch to that strategy is that Apple leads the market share on stanalone MP3/Multimedia players, while there is significant and established competition in the smartphone/multimedia phone market. |
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Originally Posted by dimsum05
You're on the right track, but I wouldn't go as far as saying what it can do out of the box as opposed to as what it can do just through the phone itself, without the aid of a computer (because after all, that is what these devices are supposed to replace for about 90% of the population). When I buy a device, I don't buy it because of what it can theoretically do... I buy it because of what it can do right now! What's the point if Apple's device gets MMS in a couple months time! A couple og of months is an eternity in the mobile industry, and by that time, there will probably other devices to fill in the holes and provide a little eye-candy along the way.
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Originally Posted by AngusG
Since when are these devices meant to replace a computer?? The only time I use my phone when I have the option of using my computer is when I'm sitting on the couch and feeling too lazy to get off my fat arse to go and check my email...
On of the things I love about my N95 (The Syncing component in iTunes doesn't even come close) is the way it interfaces with my PC... Can send and read txt messages; tether it up as a modem; Manage my contacts and calendar (in Outlook or Nokia PC Suite); and browse around overbluetooth without even taking it out of my bag... |
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Originally Posted by dimsum05
You're on the right track, but I wouldn't go as far as saying what it can do out of the box as opposed to as what it can do just through the phone itself, without the aid of a computer (because after all, that is what these devices are supposed to replace for about 90% of the population). When I buy a device, I don't buy it because of what it can theoretically do... I buy it because of what it can do right now! What's the point if Apple's device gets MMS in a couple months time! A couple og of months is an eternity in the mobile industry, and by that time, there will probably other devices to fill in the holes and provide a little eye-candy along the way.
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Originally Posted by dimsum05
Not for everyone they are not, but for the majority of the public (which only use email, web, and basic document editing), it will be the perfect fit.
I know several people that use their phones as their main terminals because they either, can't afford them, or they don't need anything else. Even I don't turn on my computer on unless I have to! That's the true meaning of convergence! |
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Originally Posted by migo
You ****ing idiot. You just quoted me mentioning an app that was ported in EXACTLY the ****ing fashion you asked for.
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Originally Posted by AngusG
Right.. so they're meant to provide the same functionality as a computer when a computer's not available or when a computer's not feasible.. Completely different from replacing a computer..
edit: I'm calling BS on that second paragraph They're aimed at people who require computer functionality away from the computer, not as a replacement for the computer... |
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Originally Posted by dimsum05
If you want to use your phone as a supplement for your computer, you might as well get an iPhone!
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| My aunt doesn't have enough money to get a computer, so I got her an N95. Not only does she keep all of her email, web browsing, and personal information in the device, she actually setup her accounts ON the phone! Remember, there are more people in the world with mobile phones than PCs. It might not be for you, but for almost everyone else, it will. |
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Originally Posted by AngusG
Or a Symbian device or a Windows Mobile device...
You can get a decent specced brand new PC (Before even looking at preowned) for cheaper than you can get a new N95. Your aunty might be different, but the vast majority of people don't use their mobile phone as a full time, pernament replacement for their PC. There maybe more people with mobile phones than PCs in the world, but the majority of mobile phone owners don't own high end smart phone devices.. Don't get me wrong, my N95 is the best thing that happened to me when I'm travelling for work but still need to remain connected, but back in the office/home, the PC's where I browse/email/work (and I'm not in the minority on that one). That's not to say it won't happen in the future though.. I have no doubt about that.. |
| Capable and Powerful are two separate things. Symbian is on it's last legs, as a platform. Android, WM7 and OSX on the iphone are more powerful and modern"platform's. |
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Originally Posted by mib1800
@iamthedudeman
Woah...Iphone osx is definitely a very modern and powerful "missing-parts" phone OS. - Full multi-tasking: S60-yes Iphone-no - MMS: S60-yes Iphone-no - Java/J2ME: S60-yes Iphone-no - Flash: S60-yes Iphone-no - DLNA: S60-yes Iphone-?? - Radio (Visual & RDS): S60-yes Iphone-no - SIP/VOIP/IM support : S60-yes Iphone-no - Push to talk: S60-yes Iphone-no - 3G video calling: S60-yes Iphone-no - Blackberry support: S60-yes Iphone-no - Lotus Notes support: S60-yes Iphone-no - Full GPS (turn-by-turn): S60-yes Iphone-no - A2DP: S60-yes Iphone-no - BT Sync/obex: S60-yes Iphone-no - USB Drive: S60-yes Iphone-no - File system: S60-yes Iphone-no - Single CPU chipset support: S60-yes Iphone-?? - Real-time kernel: S60-yes Iphone-no - Demand Paging: S60-yes Iphone-?? - Programming Language: S60 (c++,java,basic,python,OPL) Iphone: c++ - .NET support : S60-yes(beta) Iphone-no - Palm emulator: S60-yes(beta) Iphone-no - 3D Gaming library: S60-yes(ngage) Iphone-?? - Phone Services API (e.g call recording): S60-yes Iphone-no - SVG support: S60-yes Iphone-no - OTA sync/update: S60-yes Iphone-no - Voice Command/Dialing: S60-yes Iphone-no - Theme: S60-yes Iphone-no - Full UI Rotation: S60-yes Iphone-no (partial) - Multi-Input Support S60: qwerty/T9/BT/TS(soon) Iphone: TS - Multi-format video/audio support:: S60-yes Iphone-no - Video recording: S60-yes Iphone-no - Web control/applet: S60-yes Iphone-no - Direct photo/blog upload integration: S60-yes Iphone-no - Native Podcast/RSS feeder: S60-yes Iphone-no - Profile support: S60-yes Iphone-no - Copy-paste: S60-yes Iphone-no |
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Originally Posted by mr1
So-What?
There are maeby 5 features on your list that lots of people care about. We have decided either they are not that important to us or we can obtain them some other way. S60 can do all of those things but how easily in some cases. That S60 can do those things is great only if you want those features and are willing to figure out how to use them. S60 to me is like an SLR camera, yes it's better at taking pictures but by the time I get it adjusted, the moment I wanted to capture has past. |
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Originally Posted by iamthedudeman
What's with the name calling? **********.
SCUMM is a "virtual machine'. Not a application. |
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Originally Posted by AngusG
Right.. so they're meant to provide the same functionality as a computer when a computer's not available or when a computer's not feasible.. Completely different from replacing a computer..
edit: I'm calling BS on that second paragraph They're aimed at people who require computer functionality away from the computer, not as a replacement for the computer... |
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Originally Posted by mr1
So-What?
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Originally Posted by mr1
So-What?
There are maeby 5 features on your list that lots of people care about. We have decided either they are not that important to us or we can obtain them some other way. S60 can do all of those things but how easily in some cases. That S60 can do those things is great only if you want those features and are willing to figure out how to use them. S60 to me is like an SLR camera, yes it's better at taking pictures but by the time I get it adjusted, the moment I wanted to capture has past. |
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Originally Posted by mib1800
@iamthedudeman
Woah...Iphone osx is definitely a very modern and powerful "missing-parts" phone OS. - Full multi-tasking: S60-yes Iphone-no |
| - MMS: S60-yes Iphone-no |
| - Java/J2ME: S60-yes Iphone-no |
| - Flash: S60-yes Iphone-no |
| - DLNA: S60-yes Iphone-?? |
| - Radio (Visual & RDS): S60-yes Iphone-no |
| - SIP/VOIP/IM support : S60-yes Iphone-no |
| - Push to talk: S60-yes Iphone-no |
| - 3G video calling: S60-yes Iphone-no |
| - Blackberry support: S60-yes Iphone-no |
| - Lotus Notes support: S60-yes Iphone-no |
| - Full GPS (turn-by-turn): S60-yes Iphone-no |
| - A2DP: S60-yes Iphone-no |
| - BT Sync/obex: S60-yes Iphone-no |
| - USB Drive: S60-yes Iphone-no |
| - File system: S60-yes Iphone-no |
| - Single CPU chipset support: S60-yes Iphone-?? |
| - Real-time kernel: S60-yes Iphone-no |
| - Demand Paging: S60-yes Iphone-?? |
| - Programming Language: S60 (c++,java,basic,python,OPL) Iphone: c++ |
| - .NET support : S60-yes(beta) Iphone-no |
| - Palm emulator: S60-yes(beta) Iphone-no |
| - 3D Gaming library: S60-yes(ngage) Iphone-?? |
| - Phone Services API (e.g call recording): S60-yes Iphone-no |
| - SVG support: S60-yes Iphone-no |
| - OTA sync/update: S60-yes Iphone-no |
| - Voice Command/Dialing: S60-yes Iphone-no |
| - Theme: S60-yes Iphone-no |
| - Full UI Rotation: S60-yes Iphone-no (partial) |
| - Multi-Input Support S60: qwerty/T9/BT/TS(soon) Iphone: TS |
| - Multi-format video/audio support:: S60-yes Iphone-no |
| - Video recording: S60-yes Iphone-no |
| - Web control/applet: S60-yes Iphone-no |
| - Direct photo/blog upload integration: S60-yes Iphone-no |
| - Native Podcast/RSS feeder: S60-yes Iphone-no |
| - Profile support: S60-yes Iphone-no |
| - Copy-paste: S60-yes Iphone-no |
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Originally Posted by mib1800
"So-What if Iphone has a big screen, most people are not vision impaired " "So-What if Iphone has a good browsing experience since a phone is mainly use making phone calls. " "So-What if Iphone got a good AppStore, most people do not want to fork out money to pay for software" "So-What if Iphone is easy to use, most people are not idiots you know" and... btw my response was for iamthedudeman on the merit of an OS...nothing to do with your own personal preference |
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Originally Posted by mr1
Dude, take a breath. Read what you wrote in both post. Two million people decided they wanted a big screen, browser, AppStore (half free apps), and ease of use, that was just the first few days. Those that don't want those things buy something else. I didn't mention these things, you did.
I'm under the impression that this is an open forum. Anybody can jump in and comment which I did. |
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Originally Posted by migo
Not so important on the N95 since it takes very good pictures that couldn't be sent via MMS. Iphone has a horrible camera that would only be good for MMS.
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| All the reviews I've read show the N95 as not having this. |
| Bit of a moot advantage, it solves a problem S60 used to have, it's a bug fix more than a feature. |
| This is more of a novelty feature, it never works consistently. |
| Handy, nice not to have a cluttered default theme, but the iPhone one is fairly neat, so this isn't a big shortcomming. |
| So the iPhone doesn't support both m4a and AAC for audio and both QT and MPG for Video? I have a hard time believing this. |
| What's this? |
| iPhone can't do podcasts? This I don't buy. |
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Originally Posted by mr1
AngusG - I was very careful to say 'lots of people'. If you are not in that particular group, it's OK. I have a number of devices that will do many things I have no interest in doing. That's just the way it is. My S60 phone is an example. Personally, I have many important things to remember. How to convince my phone to do things is not high on that list. I haven't been called an idiot, just concerned about other things. Iphone just works for me.
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Originally Posted by migo
Very important for IM.
Not so important on the N95 since it takes very good pictures that couldn't be sent via MMS. Iphone has a horrible camera that would only be good for MMS. |
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I'll admit I don't know what this is. |
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All the reviews I've read show the N95 as not having this. |
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This'll come in handy once more phones support it. Given that iChat has video calling it's surprising the 3G doesn't support it. |
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Most 3G phones aren't single CPU. |
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Everything except C++ sucks, so this isn't much of an advantage for S60. |
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What version of the Palm OS, and is there really a point since no S60 devices have a touch screen? |
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What do you mean by full? Certain apps I've seen only run in portrait when landscape would have been much better. |
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So the iPhone doesn't support both m4a and AAC for audio and both QT and MPG for Video? I have a hard time believing this. |
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I swear the iPhone's geotagging had something to do with this. |
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Originally Posted by JonnyBruha
Why would you ever use the front camera on the N95 unless it were for video conferencing? MMS or email, you can use the 5mp camera with either for sending much higher quality pictures. For MMS, they get resized to VGA, but they'll still look better than whatever you took using the front camera.
Your option on the iPhone is to send it via email and it'll get resized just like MMS. That's all. I think we need to do another round and figure out who in this thread has actually used both devices again. As I said before, those who haven't don't really deserve a post in this thread, at least not a credible one. |
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Originally Posted by AngusG
N95 has a VGA camera on the front, and the main camera has an MMS mode for taking MMS photos...
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| Maybe if Apple took a leaf out of Symbian's book they might be able to support multitasking.. |
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How about WMA and WMV files?? And for what the N95 doesn't play, I'm yet to find a video that Nokia Video Converter won't convert.. |
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Originally Posted by mib1800
@iamthedudeman
Woah...Iphone osx is definitely a very modern and powerful "missing-parts" phone OS. - Full multi-tasking: S60-yes Iphone-no - MMS: S60-yes Iphone-no - Java/J2ME: S60-yes Iphone-no - Flash: S60-yes Iphone-no - DLNA: S60-yes Iphone-?? - Radio (Visual & RDS): S60-yes Iphone-no - SIP/VOIP/IM support : S60-yes Iphone-no - Push to talk: S60-yes Iphone-no - 3G video calling: S60-yes Iphone-no - Blackberry support: S60-yes Iphone-no - Lotus Notes support: S60-yes Iphone-no - Full GPS (turn-by-turn): S60-yes Iphone-no - A2DP: S60-yes Iphone-no - BT Sync/obex: S60-yes Iphone-no - USB Drive: S60-yes Iphone-no - File system: S60-yes Iphone-no - Single CPU chipset support: S60-yes Iphone-?? - Real-time kernel: S60-yes Iphone-no - Demand Paging: S60-yes Iphone-?? - Programming Language: S60 (c++,java,basic,python,OPL) Iphone: c++ - .NET support : S60-yes(beta) Iphone-no - Palm emulator: S60-yes(beta) Iphone-no - 3D Gaming library: S60-yes(ngage) Iphone-?? - Phone Services API (e.g call recording): S60-yes Iphone-no - SVG support: S60-yes Iphone-no - OTA sync/update: S60-yes Iphone-no - Voice Command/Dialing: S60-yes Iphone-no - Theme: S60-yes Iphone-no - Full UI Rotation: S60-yes Iphone-no (partial) - Multi-Input Support S60: qwerty/T9/BT/TS(soon) Iphone: TS - Multi-format video/audio support:: S60-yes Iphone-no - Video recording: S60-yes Iphone-no - Web control/applet: S60-yes Iphone-no - Direct photo/blog upload integration: S60-yes Iphone-no - Native Podcast/RSS feeder: S60-yes Iphone-no - Profile support: S60-yes Iphone-no - Copy-paste: S60-yes Iphone-no |
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Originally Posted by iamthedudeman
- Full multi-tasking: S60-yes Iphone-yes
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| - MMS: S60-yes Iphone-no=yes |
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- Radio (Visual & RDS): S60-yes Iphone-=yes - SIP/VOIP/IM support : S60-yes Iphone-yes |
| - Push to talk: S60-yes Iphone-yes |
| - 3G video calling: S60-yes Iphone-yes(hardware supported) |
| - Flash: S60-yes Iphone-coming soon. |
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- Radio (Visual & RDS): S60-yes Iphone-has hardware for it. - Blackberry support: S60-NOT ANY MORE. NO! Iphone-no - Lotus Notes support: S60-yes Iphone-yes - Full GPS (turn-by-turn): S60-yes Iphone-YES. |
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- Single CPU chipset support: S60-yes Iphone-?? (Why would you think that this is good) Of coarse the iphone can do single chipset support. - File system: S60-yes Iphone-no(that is the whole point of the iphone
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- Real-time kernel: S60-NO Iphone-YES(do you even know what this means? I don't think you do.) S60 works off a Nano-Kernel. It isn't even a Microkernel.
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| - .NET support : S60-yes(beta) Iphone-yes |
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- Palm emulator: S60-yes(beta) Iphone-noThank god no. why is this a good thing.
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- 3D Gaming library: S60-yes(ngage) Iphone-yes - Phone Services API (e.g call recording): S60-yes Iphone-yes |
| - OTA sync/update: S60-yes Iphone-yes |
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- Voice Command/Dialing: S60-yes Iphone-yes - Theme: S60-yes Iphone-yes |
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- Multi-format video/audio support:: S60-yes Iphone-yes - Video recording: S60-yes Iphone-yes |
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- Direct photo/blog upload integration: S60-yes Iphone-yes - Native Podcast/RSS feeder: S60-yes Iphone-yes - Profile support: S60-yes Iphone-yes - Copy-paste: S60-yes Iphone-yes(limited) |
| - Full UI Rotation: S60-no(partial) Iphone-yes |
are you sure? how stupid can a OS get duh You are the one who dont know what you are talking about - google it for old time sake since you dont know ) iphone=yes|
supports multi touch screen=S60=no iphone=yes supports Steve's distortion field=S60=no-iphone YES! supports apple's brain 'wipe' brainwashing-S60=no iphone=yes makes you stand in day long lines:S60=no iphone=yes Apple's owns your soul =S60=no iphone=yes Makes you call iphone owners who have batteries older than you idiot names= S60=yes iphone=no Makes you think that a N95 can: a.)make you better than Mcgyver b.)not make you less of a "geek' c.)pull hot women with a strong pimp hand, no questions asked. d.)save the world e.)all knowing f.)better than all iphone owners. g.)get you out of trouble with the law, and wife or girlfriend i. )disarm terrorists j.)use it to dig a titch, and tell how many feet you have dug up by the accelerometer and GPS. All of the above:S60=YES!-Iphone=NO! (except for J.).
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Originally Posted by ipodlover77
lol, what do you guys feel about this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbrrgGjM3xI |
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Originally Posted by ipodlover77
lolol i know.
i felt a little iffy watching that too. i was amazed by his web camera quality though. |
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Originally Posted by JonnyBruha
The trick is to be able to make the girls wet by yourself, and then use the N95 to film everything you do with them. Don't use your phone to compensate for your shortcomings.
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lol i kid.
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Originally Posted by JonnyBruha
I take no responsibility for your experience with the N95-4. Keep in mind, I switched back to an N95-3, for what it's worth. I don't think you'd be buying a device as compensation, but the concept certainly isn't new to me. I've met many people who purchased the iPhone just to have something interesting to talk about with women.
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Originally Posted by ipodlover77
lol, what do you guys feel about this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbrrgGjM3xI |
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Originally Posted by jyng
OMG I have to hit the button three times to get a C!!!!! Ever heard of predictive text?
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Originally Posted by JonnyBruha
I'm about 20 seconds into that video. Can someone please explain to me why I should tough out the next 9 minutes to a 12 year old kid half way through puberty?
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Originally Posted by Blakthorn
that kid in the n95 video is a tool bag
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Originally Posted by ipodlover77
http://cgi.ebay.com/NOKIA-N95-8GB-U...1QQcmdZViewItem
lol, can someone explain to me how a 8gb n95 has a memory card also |
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Originally Posted by jose1983
im just hoping nokia does a better job cause the n96 looks like a flop to me
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