vB Easy Archive - Sanyo 4900 vs. 5300 vs 8100 RX Levels

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Sanyo 4900 vs. 5300 vs 8100 RX Levels
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Posted by: JimC

My Problem: The Sprint PCS Signal Strength here is too low to use the Sanyo 8100 in my home (it won't stay locked on to a Sprint PCS Signal, regardless of Roaming Settings), but yet the Sanyo 4900 will. So, I'm trying to figure out if the 5300 may be another option.

Thanks to a forum post, I figured out how to watch RX Levels on the Sanyo phones (Sprint techs probably already use this).

You can dial ##040793, OK, Save Number, and get to a service screen. You have to press the upper right soft key periodically to get the RX level display (it doesn't want to stay up -- coming up almost at random, even pressing keys). Power off the phone to get out of the screen.

Or, you can dial ##786, OK, Save Number, OK for Menu, then select Service Screen). You have to press the upper right soft key periodically to get the RX level display (it doesn't want to stay up -- coming up almost at random, even pressing keys). Power off the phone to get out of the screen.

Note: I'd be very careful with ##786, it looks like one of the options is to reset the phone to defaults (and I have no idea what this will do to a phone -- i.e., erase all programming or whatever). A Sprint Tech can probably fill us in (if they're allowed to).

Watching the 4900 and 8100 side by side, there seems to be about an 8dBm difference in RX levels on average between the two phone models - which is apparently enough so that the Sanyo 4900 can stay locked on to a signal in my home, whereas the Sanyo 8100 is constantly losing the Sprint signal here. For example: the Sanyo 4900 RX level may hover around -100dBm, with the Sanyo 8100 hovering around -108dBm RX Level (both constantly fluctuating though). My assumption is that the higher numbers are the weaker signal (since there is a - sign in front). Someone please correct me if my assumption is incorrect.

Apparently when the signal "dips" low enough, the 8100 decides that there is no signal available, and starts it's search again (no service available, searching for service, entering sprint service area -- stays in service for 10 seconds or so and then starts the pattern all over again).

The 4900 stays locked on here. I don't know if the "thresholds" are set differently (for when it decides that no service is available), or if it's just the difference in Receiver Sensitivity between the two phone models.

Does anyone have both a 8100 and 5300 that they may be willing to watch side by side using the ##040793 option, so that we can get an idea if the 5300 RX Sensitivity may be better than the 8100's, giving us an idea of the "average" dBm levels you are seeing watching both phones side by side -- testing them with Antennas down and extended?

Thanks (I'm still trying to decide if I would be wasting my time by getting a 5300 to test, since the 8100 doesn't work well enough to use in my home -- but since it's "borderline", perhaps a 5300 would be just better enough to be useable).

Note: the 4900 does work here, but I'd really prefer a tri-mode phone, with 800mhz cdma, which could prove useful for roaming to Verizon Digital Service in areas where such Roaming agreements are in place with Sprint.

Posted by: NGeorge

I'm in a similar situation;

I had a Samsung that was around -106 and would say "searching for signal" in the house; My 4900 now gets around -100 in the house, and that is enough to make and keep calls (in most areas). I am about to buy a 5300, which I wanted from the start, but 400 at the time was too much (can find 'em now for 250). They recently upgraded the PRLs so I now roam default on a CDMA carrier, but since the 4900 is dual mode, it won't roam on the digital signal; want the 5300 since the other carrier's tower is just a few blocks away (Sprint is on the other side of town), and now it should roam on them...

I know that the 5300 is just a tad worse reception than the 4900, but I want to know by how much... I'm almost thinking about waiting for the Samsung A600... I'll never get Sprint in the house, but with the new PRL, and F & C America, I might be able to live with it :-)

--Nat

Posted by: JimC

NGeorge:

I want to know too. I also started a thread at sprintusers.com here (hopefully we'll get some responses from users willing to test them and report results):

http://www.sprintusers.com/forum/sh...&threadid=16536

So far, the only tester has been jimmyjames (he's got a review of the 8100 vs. 5300 on this forum). His results leaned more towards the 8100. For example: he got a 3db stronger signal on a 5300 vs. an 8100 in an area that he went to test them (but, he notes that they apparently had put up a new tower in that area, and he got the opposite results at his home).

Just to confuse things, he does go into more detail in the above sprintusers.com thread, where again, he leans towards the 8100 (which doesn't want to stay locked on in my home, when the 4900 will).

So, I'd like to see some responses from users testing them in different environments -- perhaps my home environment may lend itself more towards the 5300 (or at least I'm hoping that will be the case).

BTW, I took a ride today, that confirms that a tri-mode phone would be better. We drove on GA Highway 120 West (a.k.a. Buchanan Highway) towards Buchanan Georgia. I had both a 4900 and a 8100 with me, watching them closely. In several areas, both the 4900 and 8100 lost Sprint's signal (with the 8100 usually losing the signal first), but the 8100 was able to find another Digital Signal (via Roaming) -- probably 800mhz cdma from Verizon if I had to guess.

In a couple of these areas, the 4900 was unable to find any signal (when the 8100 sometimes had all signal bars via Digital Roaming). So, if I can get a tri-mode phone to work at my home (i.e., Sanyo 5300), then it would serve me better when traveling.

P.S. -- it sounds like the signal strength in your home is almost identical to mine (around -100dbm on the 4900). We're on that "bleeding edge" in trying to find a tri-mode phone that will work. Hopefully, we won't be stuck with the dual mode 4900 (nothing wrong with it, unless you want to roam to 800mhz cdma). LOL

Posted by: jimmyjames

Why not try the Nokia? It's supposed to have really good reception on all three bands. It's got other shortcomings (no Vision, worthless vibrating ringer, etc.), but it should work in your house and is 1900/800/800.

Posted by: JimC

Well -- one of the reasons I went with Sprint's new PCS Free and Clear America Plan to begin with was unlimited Vision....

So, even if the Nokia worked here, it would be another compromise.

I didn't realize I'd have these kind of problems with Sprint. I guess I took my AT&T Service for granted (since apparently, I'm in a good area for them).

If worse comes to worse, and the Nokia would work (and I'm seeing mixed signals on the forums about their newly redesigned chipset), I guess I'd still be better off compared to my AT&T service (due to the savings with Sprint). But, with the quality differences here (with AT&T being much better in my home, and in the surrounding area), combined with the loss of Vision, the benefits of switching to Sprint begin to diminish substantially.

Posted by: JimC

I broke down and ordered the 5300, which arrived this afternoon. I have not activated the phone (and won't, since it's obviously not going to work either), but I still tested it some (dialing numbers and waiting on either Sprint or Verizon Recordings).

Based on about 30 minutes of testing/comparing the phones side by side, the differences between the Sanyo 5300 and Sanyo 8100 appear to be negligible. The 5300 does tend to average about 1 signal bar higher than the 8100, but this does not seem to impact the ability to stay locked on to a Sprint signal here. It won't stay locked on to any signal for very long either, regardless of roaming settings.

Looking at the service screen, actual signal strength seems to be roughly the same between the two phones when on the Sprint Signal-- usually within 1 dBm of each other. In Analog or Digital Roaming, the 5300 has the edge (at least the one I received), but not enough of one to make a significant difference in phone usability.

I did manage to get a Verizon recording once on the 5300 when forcing roaming to Analog (after several attempts), whereas I've been unable to get the 8100 to stay locked on to an Analog Signal here.

Ditto for the Digital Roaming capability of the 5300. When it roamed to Digital inside of my home, it was able to stay locked on long enough to get a Verizon Recording after a couple of tries, which I've been unable to do with the 8100.

At least I now know who's signal I'm getting when Roaming (Verizon, both for Digital and Analog Roaming inside of my home). Apparently, the Verizon signal here must be as weak as Sprint's signal -- with the 5300 being barely able to find it, with the antenna up. I suspected as much, since my wife once had a Verizon (I think it may have been Airtouch at the time) phone from work, which would not work inside of our home (she had to walk outside to use it).

The signal strength between Verizon and Sprint must be very close here, since the 5300 doesn't really favor one over the other with roaming set to auto (sometimes going to sprint, sometimes going to digital roaming, sometimes going to Analog roaming after losing a signal).

Interestingly, when walking outside on my back deck upstairs, I did see more of a signal strength increase with the 8100, than I did with the 5300 (the 5300 did not seem to improve much when walking outside, whereas the 8100 reception did improve).

Conclusion (based on very limited testing). The Sanyo 8100 and Sanyo 5300 have about the same reception of the Sprint PCS 1900mhz CDMA signal in my home. The 5300 has slightly better reception in 800mhz modes (both CDMA and AMPS), but not enough of a difference for usability purposes.

So, based on my testing of 3 different models now, the Sanyo 4900 is better in both 800mhz AMPS, and 1900mhz CDMA, compared to either the Sanyo 8100 or Sanyo 5300. The Sanyo 4900 is able to stay locked on to either Sprint's 1900mhz CDMA Signal, or Verizon's 800mhz AMPS signal inside of my home, when the tri-mode Sanyos cannot.

Unfortunately, the Sanyo 4900 does not offer an 800mhz cdma mode, which is wanted for better roaming capability when traveling (which I found out when riding out of town with both the 8100 and 4900). In several areas, the 8100 was able to get a good signal in "Digital Roaming", when the 4900 could not find any signal (the 8100 was probably roaming to Verizon's 800mhz CDMA coverage in those areas).

So, "back to the drawing board". Remaining options: External Antennas, or PCS Repeater, or Nokia 3585i (which would mean giving up Vision).

Posted by: NGeorge

That's odd that you are finding the 4900 AMPS acceptable; I've found that the AMPS on the 4900 is the WORST reception on any analog phone I've ever seen... Normally the Analog penetrates more than the digital, but not on the 4900... I've wondered if the 5300 has better analog signals (or picks up 800 digital as good as 1900 digital), or if it's the 800 mhz. radio itself.

That said: I have an AT&T digital/analog tower near my house, and before the PRL change, I got 4 bars of at&t analog on the Samsung and clear, but only 1-2 and static on the 4900... after the PRL change, it switched to US Cell... I also have a US Cell tower right near by, but it's digital only. The analog one is double the length away than the Sprint tower (analog US Cell is a town over), so now I have dicey analog and sprint both... if the 4900 was TRI mode, I'd have full US Cell digital from the hill right above my house.

Mainly I want to know if the 4900 analog reception is the 800 radio itself, or just how the phone deals with AMPS?

Ya know, it's odd... exactly the opposite with a Samsung... *great* analog and 800, BAD 1900 PCS...

And same as Jim, I'd go with a Nokia (they aren't *that* bad as long as I could find a black faceplate :-), but I gotta have the unlimited Vision--I'm hooked... and the fact that I can use it on the laptop occasionally is great too.

--Nat

Posted by: JimC

Well -- I don't know whether I'd use the word "acceptable" or not. I only know that the 4900 can stay locked on to an analog signal inside of my home (1 signal bar), when the 8100 cannot.

Ditto for the 5300 (it won't stay locked on to the analog signal for very long either -- it's barely better than the 8100).

I've got a feeling that the Sanyos all have poor analog reception (which is probably why I was getting 4 bars signal strength in Digital Roaming with the Sanyo 8100, in an area that the 4900 could not find any signal at all). You're not the first person that has told me that the Sanyos seem to have much worse analog reception compared to their other phones.

My guess is that there was probably an analog signal there, but the Sanyo 4900 just couldn't find it (and it's Analog reception appears to be fractionally better than the 8100's, since it can lock on to a very weak analog signal inside of my home, when the 8100 cannot).

Unfortunately, I don't have any non-Sanyo phones to compare right now. I do have some old AT&T Phones (Sony Ericssons), but I don't know how to force them into Analog Mode to compare 'em with the Sanyos. Forcing Analog Roaming is not in the menus anywhere on them.

To be frank, I'm really not impressed with the Sanyos at all. However, since they seem to be the best phones Sprint has (for reception of Sprint's signal), I'm trying to make 'em work.

As far as the Nokias, I still haven't decided wheter or not to go that route. Like you, I hate to give up Vision.

Posted by: donpablo2000

There's always the third option in your case, try another service provider, say, Verizon, since they claim to have to better service areas. I've read all of your posts and maybe Sprint isn't the service for you. I hope you're able to cancel yor service before the two-week point and get your money back. You could always try the nokia 3585i, it has very strong reception. I've used all three of the Sanyos (4900-5300-8100) and had no problems with signal locking here in Memphis. But maybe Sprint will step up to the plate and put up more towers in your area soon. Good luck!