vB Easy Archive - which phones have TRUE GPS hardware?

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which phones have TRUE GPS hardware?
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Posted by: Gaucho100K

Im looking to buy one of the newer smartphones on the market, but cant seem to understand which phone has actual GPS hardware on it.

As far as I understand things, if a cell phone does not have true GPS hardware then you must rely on some service that may be subscription based and (more importantly) may require you to have a data plan with your cell phone provider.

I wanted to see if it was possible to buy a phone that would avoid this.... any tips?

Also, does anybody know if the upcoming Nokia N97 has true GPS hardware on it...?

Thanks,
Gaucho100K

Posted by: jase88

Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8830/4.5.0.127 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/109)

Most newer Blackberry devices have true GPS.

Posted by: XFF

There's no such thing as "true" or "false" GPS. Perhaps what you're referring to is autonomous (non-assisted) GPS. There's many handsets that support that mode, including iPhone 3G (but it does require a data plan anyways, as do most devices that support autonomous GPS).

Posted by: alt0160

Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry8110/4.5.0.102 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/107)

I know that there are a bunch of s60 phones like the N95, etc have GPS. If you have the garmin software installed, along with the maps. It doesn't require you to have a data plan when you turn off A-GPS which uses a small amount of data to "quickly" determine where you are. At which point it'll hand over the task to garmin to give you guidance.
A program like Google Maps, requires a constant data connection as you have to download the map on the fly.

I've only listed S60 as I'm more familiar with it.

This pearl that I am using also has an internal GPS module but does require you to use data for BB maps as it just pulls the map as you are going.

edit: here's a quick search at GsmArena for phones with GPS.
Quadband phones with GPS.

Posted by: DRNewcomb

Quote:

Originally Posted by XFF

There's no such thing as "true" or "false" GPS. Perhaps what you're referring to is autonomous (non-assisted) GPS.

Someone would really have to define what he meant by "true" GPS. I know some folks who will tell you that it's not a real GPS if the antenna is less than 10" in diameter and it will still work under a tree.

Posted by: Bugwart

When I hear "true GPS," I think of a device which directly receives and processes signals from geosynchronous satellite like the Garmin Nuvi stuck to the windshield of my A4. This sort of GPS does not require data from the cellular network, since all the necessary data is received from satellites. There are certainly handsets which do this. Garmin markets GPS handsets.

There are also numerous handsets which determine the handset's location by the time required for signals to travel to closeby terrestrial cellular antennae. This is AGPS and only works with data plans, since the data it uses are received from the cellular network.

Gaucho100K, which were you referring to by "true GPS?"

Posted by: Gaucho100K

Bugwart.. thanks for your help with this. What I mean by true GPS is a stand alone GPS feature that will allow me to use the phone like if I had a regular GPS device. Dont know if this is possible or if Im getting my concepts mixed up.... Im quite tech challenged...

Posted by: desertbunny

Get a bluetooth enabled phone with the GPS profile, an off-line GPS program stored on a data card, and a bluetooth GPS puck.

The specific example that I can think of, is what my neighbor has.
Palm treo 750, delorme earthmate gps puck, delorme mobile streetatlas on a SD card.

Posted by: amirmuh

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bugwart

When I hear "true GPS," I think of a device which directly receives and processes signals from geosynchronous satellite like the Garmin Nuvi stuck to the windshield of my A4. This sort of GPS does not require data from the cellular network, since all the necessary data is received from satellites. There are certainly handsets which do this. Garmin markets GPS handsets.

There are also numerous handsets which determine the handset's location by the time required for signals to travel to closeby terrestrial cellular antennae. This is AGPS and only works with data plans, since the data it uses are received from the cellular network.

Gaucho100K, which were you referring to by "true GPS?"

Nice breakdown, thats what im guessing he meant.

I would think with a phone with "true" gps you could turn off the radio and still be able to the gps, similar to off-network direct talk with Nextel

Posted by: RadioRaiders

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bugwart

There are also numerous handsets which determine the handset's location by the time required for signals to travel to closeby terrestrial cellular antennae. This is AGPS and only works with data plans, since the data it uses are received from the cellular network.

That's not A-GPS, thats "Network Based Location" (or something like that) and no GPS receiver is required for that.

A-GPS uses the cellular network to send telemetry and other info from A-GPS servers to the phones GPS to help it lock faster with a weak signal , but doesn't use the towers location for positioning.

Anyway, my Nokia N95 can choose between:
-Assisted GPS <---Using the cellular network to send GPS telemetry data
-Integrated GPS <--"Stand Alone" GPS, no cellular network required
-Network Based <---Using positioning based on the cell towers locations

The phone lets me select one or any cobmination of the above.

My SonyEricsson C905 only give me the option of "Assisted Start" or not, so I would guess I have the choice of "Stand Alone GPS" or "A-GPS", but not the "Network Based" option the N95 gives me (unless they bundle that in with the A-GPS?).

Anyway, in short, I'd guess most phones sold today have some kind of option to use them without any cellular network required.

Posted by: Drumgull

Nokia 6275i,Nokia N95-have standalone gps.Nokia smartphones are a good bet
Samsung m510 does not.
There are several others but the subject is confusing because most people don't know if their phones do or not and the manufacturers and providers are happy to keep them confused-there's money in it for them.
Also,there may be a hack needed to liberate the gps.
A standalone gps requires a longer startup time-15 minutes sometimes if it hasn't been used for awhile but ,used daily,it is quicker because it's almanacs( updated by the satellites) are still relevant...this is true of a hiker's gps too

You need check out the forums of apps like MapNav and MGMaps(both good ones) ...and see what phones people are using successfully

Posted by: Gaucho100K

Thanks to all for your great answers.... Ive ordered a Nokia N97 so I guess I will be able to use it here in Argentina. There is an electronic mapping project that has updated maps... I will need to downliad the Garmin Mobile XT software to read the maps, correct...?

Posted by: RadioRaiders

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaucho100K

Thanks to all for your great answers.... Ive ordered a Nokia N97 so I guess I will be able to use it here in Argentina. There is an electronic mapping project that has updated maps... I will need to downliad the Garmin Mobile XT software to read the maps, correct...?

You can download Nokia Maps for free to your phone so you can use the stand-alone GPS without any network connections at all (you'll get the Nokia Map Loader and link in the CD included with the phone).

It can plot point-to-point but to get "real" navigation (ie: "turn left here, then right there") you need to buy a subscription.

Posted by: SamJoseph

Blackberry devices have true GPS.

Posted by: desertbunny

not all blackberries

Posted by: Bugwart

There are only two ways that your handset can know where it is located.
1. It can traingulate its position for by receiving the signal from 3 or more GPS satellites, or
2. It can determine its position based on signals from the closest cellular towers. 3 or more towers are required for triangulation, however connection to even one tower can identify a general location.

Process 1 is potentially more accurate than process 2, but as Drumgull said above, it can take some time to acquire satellites. This is a particular issue when you fly some distance. The GPS function will "look" for the last satellites it acuired. This allows a quick start up of the GPS function. If you fly to the other side of the world, the start up will be very slow.

Process 1 also requires that the handset have a mostly unobstructed view of the sky. 2.4 GHz GPS signals do not penetrate very well. It can work inside a building, if you are close to a window.

Process 2 is much quicker and it can operate anywhere that there is good cellular signal.