vB Easy Archive - P900 Needs Better Games

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P900 Needs Better Games
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Posted by: johnnybluetooth

oK. ....guys , I have had the p900 for a while now and before that I had the p800.. But some games are alright but I think for what we paid and for the power that this phone ha we should be able to put any game on it. I played the n-gage today with splinter cell and I hate to admit I was very impressed. I mean I love watching Hulk on my phone haveing a video camera and all but I wanna try to but some GOOD games on it... Was anyone able to put splinter cell on their phone or any other good game. Dont get me wrong I love my p900 I just wish for the amount that we paid that we would be able to do anything... I am pretty sure that the P900 can handle that kind of game.. I really dont wanna pick up a n-gage.(my girlfriend would kill me).. Can someone tell me what you think... I have heard about these emulators but for some reason I couldnt get them to work on on P800 does anyone have any indepth instructions or where I can get them from...

I WANT SPLINTER CELL

Posted by: RageFury32

Ummm...Okay. As a former game designer, I would have to have the displeasure to tell you that the P800/P900 is NOT a fun system to program quick reaction games for, not due to its limited CPU power (Nope, it's actually very powerful), or its screen (It's actually a good size), or its software APIs (Good ones exist, and the standard ones does a fairly good job optimizing so coding is not a problem). It's more like the Px00's lack of a decent gamer's control interface. You basically can't expect users to be happy with the given controls.

Well, let's see. The N-Gage is gamer friendly with lots of ergonomically placed buttons with good tactile response, and a bunch of silly games ported by Nokia to make the N-Gage look borderline viable.

Now, what does the P800 have? It has a stylus, a fragile looking screen, a jogdial, and 2 chicklet-like buttons with zero tactile response built-in...Which is rather lousy when it comes to being a game control interface. The P900 is slightly better with the electromechanical button array, but since it's backwards to the user and placed in such an awkward and fragile looking position that it'll be quite a pain to use. Now. If you're a game programmer and want to do a viable game, what the heck are you going to use to let the gamer control the action? The jogdial/2 button interface? The Sega Gamegear/MGS emulator and the GBC emulator pretty much proved that the jogdial/stylus sucks as a method to control the action, especially if the action is to be fast and furious. (Because if it didn't suck you P8/900 users will be raiding ROM sites, right?! There were some good GBC/GameGear games released)

Does the P900 key array help? No. They are awkwardly placed chicklet keys and one hard move can snap that piece off and break it. So forget that. So really, the only thing that you can use as a UI is the stylus. And what does that mean? NO games with complex actions, since the screen position recognition thing might get confused. No games with repetitive action, since stabbing your screen repeatedly with a stylus is BAD. Men in Black works for the P800, since all you do is "click the Alien", but it's a rail shooter. And stabbing your screen to kill aliens is a BAD idea after awhile. So what does that lead you with? Oh? Diablo-like games are nice. All you do is poke the enemy until they die, then poke the next destination of the avatar. RTS games are do-able. Games with gradual action like racing is good (Road Rash/Biking/Rally car games can work). 3D Shooters? Not really. Interstellar fire has horrible gameplay in a P800 due to the fact that it is excruciatingly difficult to control the shooting/flying. 2.5D shooter like a Helicopter Gunship flyer, or perhaps Doom? Maybe. But mot likely not. Pool games? Works. Mahjohng/Card games? Yeah. Select and drop interface is cool.

Seriously. Think about it. If you play Splinter cell on the Px00, how would you plan to control Sam Fisher? On the stylus? Nah. A slip on that stylus will be deadly. On the jogdial? Nope. Jogdials are a pain when it comes to mapping out precise movement. They can handle general movement in a direction over a threshold, but they are not as precise as a balanced D-Pad. On the 2 buttons on the bottom? Feh. The keys are not friendly in executing combos at all. So basically, Sam Fisher is dead, dead, dead dead going up against commandos in the P800.

Okay, kids, you're starting to see the problem with the Px00. It's not like there are no good games for the Px00. There are good games. But it's just that the Px00 does not give the gamer the amount of control that it should, and game programmers are pretty much hard pressed to choose from a limited selection of interfaces that it can provide.

Well, recommendations to improve gaming on our favorite phone? Well, a game controller well supported by SE will be nice, but it won't happen. That's the Z600's territory. And that jeopardizes future PSP sales as well.

However, Px00 game developers can look into games that require simple controls. Densha De Go, the Japanese train driving simulator, only requires 2 single axis of control...A lever to control the throttle on the train, and a lever to control the brakes. A good, 3D implementation of a train simulator using the jogdial to control the train's motions will work really well in a P800. All you need is "left to brake, right to accelerate", and make gradings to denote setting levels.

Another recommendation...How about a 3D Monkey Island clone?
Those games only require exploration and clicking on context sensitive spots on the game's playing field. Those should be relatively easy to deal with on the P800. The SimX/Sims series will be fun to have on the P800, as will Sid Sawyer's classic "Transport Tycoon deluxe". Hell, I would love to see X-Com being ported here. They are all games that require simple controls and deliever on a ton of fun.

Of course, I won't even touch too much on the subject of the poor economics of developing games for the P800, especially when you see certain Asian web forums offering game unlock codes for P800 games in exchange for IMEIs. Granted that most of those games have piss-poor gameplay, but hey, someone invested time and money on them. Pay the poor schlubs.

Oh well, if you want to see fun games, you must think about the way how games are usually executed on a given interface. Sometimes certain interfaces work well, sometimes it doesn't.

Posted by: snoopy20

Wow! I read the whole thing. Nice post.

I think simple board games like monopoly/SORRY!/chess/checkers/etc etc would be good but shoot 'em ups? I doubt it would be a good idea, like RageFury32 said...not good to keep stabbing your screen.

Posted by: Rubicon

Quote:

Another recommendation...How about a 3D Monkey Island clone?

Isn't there a SCUMM VM port fo symbian?
if not, what are you guys waiting for?

Posted by: ProtoMan.EXE

I was just about to suggest buying the gameboard thingy for your P900/P800 and have someone make some kind of symbian program to use the gameboard with your games.

Your P900/P800 just wouldnt fit on the holder thing, so you would have to play on a table or something and set it down.

Posted by: RageFury32

Well, the problem with the gameboard is that it has exactly the same problem as the chatboard on the Px00s..ZERO runtime drivers from SonyEricsson, and very unlikely to have any.

Well, okay, supposing that if SE, by some amazing miracle decides to add Gameboard support to the Px00. Would that make gaming any more viable for the Px00 users? Well, not really, at least, not in the short term. All of those action games coded for the Px00 would still need to be recoded to take advantage of it. (Maybe as a bunch of combo macros mapped to each of the buttons? Yeah, but unlike DirectInput for MS's DirectX, I didn't see any easy control remapping APIs for the SymbianOS). And I don't know whether some of the major game publishers would justify spending more man-hours adding, testing, and debugging support for a peripheral that not all gamers will have.

Once again, it's a serious pain in the *** to deal with by game developers.

Posted by: Testa_ross4

Flip the P900 on its side, have a virtual joy pad on the left and 2-4 buttons on the right, using your thumbs on the touch screen as input and you would have a mean game interface, I mean V Rally is a good example, once I started steering it with my thumbs, it became pretty playable.

No excuses for a lack of games.....come on game developers.

Posted by: shaolinmonk

that's was one of my reasons for dumping the p800..i just wanted to play tetris...

oh well maybe they could build games that would work with the flip up.

and a port of killer virus and mozzies woudl be temperory satisfcation.

Posted by: Cheech

Sure, input issues are the reason for lack of support for the P8/900. It's not a problem for phone specific games as V-Rally but generic one's like Java & Mophun.

I am not too bothered as prefer simple puzzle games but would like to see Mophun support for T610 games e.g. Mini Golf that can be linked over Bluetooth.

Don't think any phone can compete with GBA, even N-gage. Well not yet.

Stick with Sony and wait for PSP!!!!

BTW they could have added a T610 type joystick on the P900 don't you think. The FC screen is big enough for that. Maybe the P1000 will finally have a useful input for games eh?

Posted by: snoopy20

I hope someone from SonyEricsson is reading this cause there are so many good ideas. I think something that would bring the P900 to life is an attachable gamepad with a cable, similar to Nintendo/Sony Playstation controllers or even a BT controller would be good.

Posted by: RageFury32

Quote:

Originally posted by Testa_ross4
Flip the P900 on its side, have a virtual joy pad on the left and 2-4 buttons on the right, using your thumbs on the touch screen as input and you would have a mean game interface, I mean V Rally is a good example, once I started steering it with my thumbs, it became pretty playable.

No excuses for a lack of games.....come on game developers.

Ummm...Do you REALLY expect gamers to put their thumbs on that touchscreen to play games? There's a very good reason why there is a cottage industry worldwide for screen protectors for P800s. All them smearing and smudging from your finger oils really contribute to give your screen a nice sheen...and hideous streaks.

Posted by: Testa_ross4

Quote:

Originally posted by RageFury32
Ummm...Do you REALLY expect gamers to put their thumbs on that touchscreen to play games? There's a very good reason why there is a cottage industry worldwide for screen protectors for P800s. All them smearing and smudging from your finger oils really contribute to give your screen a nice sheen...and hideous streaks.

Agree with you on the figure oils but how else do you expect to control V Rally? with a stylus? besides the upcoming Mophun 3D games do feature a virtual cross pad and after using thumbs on the V Rally game, I feel that it is doable, I would not want to carry a joypad attachment while playing on the go, it has to be whip out and play.

Posted by: Dud-e-man

Yeah the sims would be ultra cool on the Px00, I think we should start taking names (petition style) to show maxis that there is a steady fan base for this type of thing.

Posted by: sprawl

There is a ScummVM port for PX00. www.dreo.org/p800

And I'm thinking of implementing drivers for the EGB-10 (Gameboard) for the Symbian platform but I don't know anything about the hardware. Has someone reverse engineered this piece of equipment and know what chips is in it and maybe even it's communication protocol? I Guess it isn't as simple as RS-232

if anyone has any clues it would be greatly appreciated!

/Andreas

Posted by: offsight

RageFury32 ? there are stuff coming out all time
Like a minni keyboard now,

Making games or some may player better on a keyboard

AKA >>>

Link to keyboard site or makers of it

http://www.mobilelinktech.com/shop/...keyboard_nr.php

Posted by: vinlpp

I'll be very happy if there's a game like SCRABBLE on the P900.
So please somebody out there, do consider this populer game and design one soon!
I'll give an arm & leg for it!

Posted by: fijbert

well
I thought of an idea back in the day when the P900 was still known as the P810

basically, we pull a P800 flip like thing
a cheap plastic flip that uses pins.. now, that wld mean all programs wld hv to actually go ahead with this idea
or, we can go hightech and create our own flip which interacts with the phone

but that is a pain in the ***

Posted by: Testa_ross4

Why go through all that trouble? what is wrong with having games with the flip closed and using the stock keypad as a controller? after all the screen size of the P900 with flip closed is about the same as the NK6600 and there are many, many games for the 6600.

Posted by: dundan

I've thought of something better than fijbert's P810 keypress pad suggestion. Since the P900's flip is electronic and removable, we replace it with a small directional controller (GBA pad) or some buttons the same size as the stock replacement cover. That would be cool. Then you can play widescreen games like Vrally, etc with buttons....esentially a PSP-style look device.

Posted by: fijbert

you want it electronic?
that will be kind of hard to make

what I suggested it can be made by any 1 with a plastic molding machine

but obviously urs is a lot better
just mine is more doable

Posted by: dundan

Since SE went through all that trouble to make a playstation style game controller for the Z600 I thought they could make an add-on pad for the P900. It would be similar to the bottom piece of your drawing but you would play it sideways without obscuring the screen. You could then use the jog-dial or the camera/internet buttons with the other hand.

Also, if you've played motoracer or bowling, they are vertically oriented screen games with the directional pad onscreen. Maybe they are designed to be played on the P800 with the keypad on but I just play with my fingers.

I would have no idea of approaching SE or anyone to make this or your push-type controller pad...just wishful thinking.

Posted by: fijbert

I like yer idea
but I doubt they want to compete with the PSP

Posted by: ProtoMan.EXE

Well, the P900 was designed for business users..no? So it really isnt aimed at gaming is it? I just say they include in the next firmware upgrade to be able to use the gamepad egb10 i think.

Posted by: MoonBuggy

Only just seen this thread, you guys might be interested in eMAME. It's a port of MAME (multiple arcade machine emulator) for various symbian editions. It's been compiled for the Symbian6 Nokias but was originally made for the P800.

Ngage version here and UIQ version here .