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The Hosted BES/MDS Thread: aka "Access To HTML/telnet/AIM/ICQ/MSN without buying BES"

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Posted by: Mark Rejhon

Quote:
NEWSFLASH: TCP/IP without need for MDS!

UPDATED NEW INFORMATION 2004-11-05: There is now alternate ways to get TCP/IP on a BlackBerry, if that is all you need on a BlackBerry! For more information, please see:
Carrier WAP/APN Settings for TCP/IP on BlackBerry


The Hosted Blackberry Enterprise Server Thread
aka "How To Get Access To HTML/telnet/AIM/ICQ/MSN/chatting from a Blackberry (without buying BES)"

Target Audience:
...Your carrier or BlackBerryOS does not support TCP/IP?
...Need AIM / ICQ / MSN Instant Messaging on a Blackberry?
...Or need telnet/SSH access to your home Linux system?
...Want better web access on a Blackberry?
...Get 100+ MB email space, breaking the 10 MB barrier?
...Be able to download software Over-The-Air?

[Original: Feb 13th, 2004]
[Edited: November 12th, 2004]

...As an individual or self-employed person, you just bought a Blackberry all on your own. You LOVE it for its email! Now you want to install other applications for HTML/telnet/ssh/chat/AIM/ICQ/MSN/etc. You want to install the stuff you heard about including Idokorro, Reqwireless, Webmessenger, and all the great tools you see on the Internet. But they don't work! Your carrier doesn't support TCP/IP on your BlackBerry out of the box, even though other carriers such as Rogers and T-Mobile now allow TCP/IP via Public MDS! You are frustrated that it's not possible because of something called "MDS". You're a person who's willing to pay a few tens of dollars extra per month just to get access to the extra goodies. But you are shocked it costs almost a thousand dollars just to buy server software that enables all the nifty extra features you were hoping to use on a Blackberry. You're now tempted by other mobile devices such as TREO, Sidekick, Hiptop, smartphones, etc... but you then notice none seem to do email as good as Blackberry can!

Target audienceBlackberry Attraction? What's The Big Deal?

First-time readers may be wondering what the hoopla is about. Blackberry phones have such good thumb keyboards and very good reliability. Email on Blackberry is generally vastly superior to everything else including other cellphones, other smartphones, PocketPC, PalmOS handhelds. Some invidual non-business users are starting to buy Blackberry because they really love its email; even if not as good for things like videogames. While not the Blackberry keyboard is much lauded to have an extremely good feel allowing some people to type as fast as 70 words per minute on a device that is smaller than a wallet. If Blackberry is so great for email, why shouldn't I also run other Internet applications on it like I can do on a PalmOS and PocketPC? An interesting piece of Blackberry history is that USA goverment prevented a USA company from shutting down the Blackberry network with a lawsuit [WashingtonPost.com link] -- despite that Blackberry is a Canadian technology. This is surprising, considering relations between USA and Canada since 9/11 -- it does underscore how good and addictive Blackberries are. According to news articles, Blackberries were deployed throughout the federal government shortly after 9/11 and the anthrax evacuations, to improve communiations during crisis.

Why Is MDS Required?

MDS means Mobile Data Services, which is explained on this web page at Research In Motion. The simplest english to the layman is that MDS essentially makes full Internet access possible on your Blackberry. Without access to MDS, it is almost as if you are behind "The Great Firewall" that blocks all ports except for email and WAP, limiting your ability to use your Blackberry. Most Blackberries do not have true GSM/GPRS Internet access at this time, and Internet access must be piped through MDS. The original market for Blackberries are corporations, and this is why a server solution is marketed. A medium and larger size corporation generally has no problem getting a Blackberry Enterprise Server solution set up, However, these days, the Blackberry market is diversifying and there are now more and more individual and self-employed users of Blackberries, and do not need all of BES features. A variant of MDS is called MDG, which stands for Multimedia Data Gateway. An MDG is essentially a public MDS server. As of the time of this writing, only Nextel provides a free MDG with their service.

How do I get MDS?

If you're a big enough corporation, it's not a problem. You just need to buy a Blackberry Enterprise Server (BES). However, they are generally too expensive for sole individuals because they start at $995 for a 5-user license. Some discounts can be found through a reseller, but this still burns a huge hole in an individual's pocket. Not to mention, you will need a dedicated Internet connection at your home to run BES at home. Sometimes, a small group of people are so desparate that they have pooled their money and actually purchased BES to share amongst themselves. Today, now an easier option has cropped up: a hosting service! Just like buying inexpensive web hosting instead of having an expensive T1/T3 to your home, you can finally now get BES hosting today. Surprise! Preliminary checks on pricing like a very manageable monthly fee that's actually is less than an average telephone or cable bill.

Oh No, Not Another Monthly Fee!

Unfortunately, it's a lot more appealing for individuals and self-employed consultants than paying several hundreds of dollars and running a dedicated server at home. Blackberries are like Crackberries - they are the most addictive wireless Internet devices around - and you'll pay a premium to get the best mobile Internet experience.

Do I need MDS for realtime email?

No. You don't need MDS for realtime email; you can already use your blackberry.net / blackberry.com email address and you'll receive emails on it nearly instantly (about 4 seconds after clicking send on desktop). This does not apply to POP mailboxes you add to your Blackberry, which are on a 15-minute poll.

I only need email and don't care about MDS.

True, most people only need the great email feature of Blackberry and is happy to stick with it. But some of us want to be able to chat on instant messaging networks such as AIM, ICQ, and MSN. Others of us want remote access to our home computer for retrieving files, or want SSH access to their own Linux box. Some of us are gladly willing to pay tens of dollars extra per month to gain access to such features, but the service provider won't provide the feature.

I can just use Rogers, T-Mobile, AT&T, NexTel, Telus Instead, they give me full Blackberry Internet access.

Great, if you're one of the lucky ones! For instructions on how to setup TCP/IP on a BlackBerry, see this thread. Recent Blackberry models such as 7100 and 7290 on these carriers are known to have full access to the Internet. Older BlackBerries upgraded to BlackBerryOS 4.0 also have full access to the Internet now. These carriers are great if you are in one of their great coverage areas. However, not everybody of us are in their good coverage areas and some of us need a Blackberry that can roam. For example, there is now GSM/GPRS coverage in Canada driving along inter-city highways between major Canadian cities, with certain providers in Canada. Other people want to still be able to receive email while travelling aboard.

How do I do Over-The-Air Downloads?

You launch the Blackberry Browser (or WAP browser) and click on any link that connects to a .jad file. These are tiny Java applications called Midlets. In technical terms, these are J2ME applications (MIDP 1.0). By having access to MDS, you can easily do Over-The-Air downloads of software directly to your Blackberry, just like downloading software to a modern Java powered cellphone. (Blackberry actually uses the same Java language). That means software designed for a Nokia or Motorola cellphone can work on your BlackBerry! Two of the most popular Over-The-Air download websites are Midlet.org and J2ME-Software.com. On some midlet download sites, sometimes you may have to masquerade as another cellphone or select "All Devices" in order to get access to a clickable .jad link on your Blackberry.

I heard my carrier is going to provide a public MDS/MDG service for free.

Yes, that's right. Several carriers including Rogers, T-Mobile, AT&T, Nextel, and Telus now provide TCP/IP capabilities on BlackBerries! This is also called "Blackberry Internet Connection Service" internally at some carriers. Service books are often called "BlackBerry Internet Browsing Service". Additional carriers are already beta-testing this. Even with a public MDS, there are still the advantages of bigger email space and potential better performance using a separate BES/MDS hosting service. In the meantime, most hosting services are month-by-month, so you can cancel once your carrier provides Public MDS service. To help accelerate your carrier's deployment of Public MDS, call your carrier's Blackberry department and request support for Public MDS and tell them Rogers, T-Mobile, AT&T, Nextel and Telus now support it. As an example, tell your carrier about Verichat and WebMessenger instant messaging, and how it will improve Blackberry sales if users could easily install Internet applications on Blackberry. Point your carrier's support department to this thread, to help educate even more people at the carrier understand the need for Public MDS.

Is MDS/MDG Specific To Blackberries?

Not quite. All modern cellphones with access to the Internet, require a gateway of some kind. You may have heard of these in different naming conventions such as GGSN, APN, MDG, etc. In simple terms, they essentially make connections possible between a carrier network and an external network, such as the Internet on your mobile device (or even just a simple connection to a BES server). If you have heard of GGSN (APN) on a cellphone, then that's a network component similiar to MDG. More information about various gateway services is provided on this SourceO2 page and on this Motorola iDEN page. Only MDS is Blackberry specific, while MDG and GGSN (APN) is not Blackberry specific. In fact, MDS still uses MDG in order to connect between a Blackberry and a BES server, and then from there, mobile Internet connections are made through your company's Internet connection. Credit given to a forum member (Deefer) who recently gave an excellent explanation that made this paragraph possible.

Finding Cheap Access To MDS

A cheaper way of getting access to MDS for individuals. Individual self-employed people like me can't always justify paying $595 or $995 for a Blackberry Enterprise Server just to get access to web, chat, IM, telnet/ssh and other utilities that require MDS There is huge demand out there by self-employed individuals (like me) who want their Blackberry to be able to do full HTML, telnet/ssh, AIM/ICQ/MSN messaging, and other sysadmin utilities, perhaps to connect to their home computer, etc. People like me are willing to pay an additional monthly fee to gain access to additional applications such as instant messaging and being able to do HTML web browsing with color graphics. As long as it is not a large one-time fee such as $595 or $995, considering that a few Blackberry carriers and most non-Blackberry carriers already include full Internet service at no extra charge.

Blackberry Internet Applications For Consumers/Prosumers:

There are now several dozens of Internet applications including at least two working IRC clients, at least three working web browsing clients, and at least two instant messaging clients. For other software, please see the Blackberry Killer Applications Thread. A small sampling of applications include the following:
Optional Hosted BES/MDS Services


Posted by: Mark Rejhon

This FAQ was originally written on February 13th, 2004 for another forum. This FAQ proved to be popular, so I am posting this FAQ here too as well.

Any corrections to this FAQ should be sent directly to me by PM. I check this forum weekly.


Posted by: DarrenGuy

Great info Mark.

I have seen you around some of the other PDA sites.


Posted by: sting0r

Mark, just curious can I use a MDS hosting service if my blackberry is already associaetd with a BES server? I have a 7230 that I am using on tmobile with webclient and my corporate BES server. The problem is my company does not use MDS, so I can't access any of the cool apps you described. Just wondering if it was possible for me to use the hosted access for MDS and still have my corp email and webclient email.


Posted by: HCTech

Mark,

This is superb. I have started sending this to my end users who want our MidCast pro stock quote app but need MDS. Thank you for taking the time to lay all this out.


Posted by: Mark Rejhon

sting0r --
Not sure if you can have two BES on a single Blackberry. I don't think so, but you should post a separate thread asking about this or search;

HCTech,
Feel free to do so. Make sure you give me credit (keep my name in) and link to my website at www.marky.com or www.rejtech.com .... Alternatively, simply refer people to this thread, which has this web address:
URL www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=362762


Posted by: El Chino

Mark, I got the BES setup and stuff.. Now Webmessenger is working.. However i can see my self online.. and if i send a aim from the blackberry it gets there too!. however when people try to reply to me.. i get nothing on my blackberry.. am i missing something?

thanks!


Posted by: malarky

Mark, this is an excellent post. Thanks for putting it together. I'm sure it'll help a lot of people.

I'm in the same predicament as sting0r above ... my company has BES but doesn't allow MDS. I'll do some research, but I have a feeling two BES on one handheld won't fly.


Posted by: amg212

Quote:
Originally posted by Mark Rejhon
Not sure if you can have two BES on a single Blackberry.


Why not? Couldn't it work as long as the 2 service books are named differently?


Posted by: Mark Rejhon

El Chino,

Sometimes when you first install and setup WebMessenger, it takes time for it to stabilize. For example, in the first 2 minutes or so, it's still trying to log onto the system fully. Try rebooting your Blackberry, and then logging back onto WebMessenger. It's relatively stable once it's established itself, but I found I had similiar problems (with MSN though, not AIM) when I first registered for WebMessenger.

amg212,

You'll have to do some testing. I know you can have BWC and BES simultaneously. You can receive emails from both simultaneously. Just that I am not sure if you can have two BES simultaneously.


Posted by: Mark Rejhon

DarrenGuy (or any other hofo mod), I've got new details to add to this FAQ. Can I edit this thread without reposting? (Shame to lose the 5 star rating this thread has earned!)

I'd like to add info:
* Update on Nextel "MDG"
* Upcoming MDG services (Rogers) possible
* You can shatter a 10MB BWC limit, so this is another advantage of hosted BES/MDS. Even get 1000MB if you want!
* Some more links near the bottom

Is there a way I can edit my FAQ at the top of thread, it won't let me edit posts after a certain time limit.


Posted by: rip

can this be made a sticky, please....DG?


thanks


Posted by: mbhan

Couldn't you ditch your company's BES and perhaps go with the Mailstreet BES/MDS?

Quote:
Originally posted by malarky
Mark, this is an excellent post. Thanks for putting it together. I'm sure it'll help a lot of people.

I'm in the same predicament as sting0r above ... my company has BES but doesn't allow MDS. I'll do some research, but I have a feeling two BES on one handheld won't fly.



Posted by: Mark Rejhon

If you are a deaf or hard of hearing person who needs a Blackberry TTY or a Blackberry Relay service, there is now the new Lormar Logic $39.95 PER YEAR BES/MDS HOSTING for the deaf!

That's only $3.32 per month for MDS, folks!!!!

I might eventually switch from Mailstreet because I just want MDS (no Exchange). However, I will keep the Mailstreet recommendation because this is a deal only available to deaf/hard-of-hearing people who want to convert a Blackberry into a TTY/TDD. Only big disadvantage is that you have to send your pager away to Lormar Logic to get it added. That's another restriction that might keep me staying on Mailstreet. However, this is a good option for all those poor deaf students who can't afford BES/MDS. (Like Gallaudet University -- a big deaf university)

Also, if you are deaf, see Lormar Logic's new Real Time TTY Software/Service for Blackberries.


Posted by: Mark Rejhon

Lots of new tidbits added to this June 2nd version of FAQ
- Clarifications to Nextel "MDG"
- Telus now supports MDG like Nextel
- Information about upcoming MDG services (Rogers, etc)
- New free ICQ client called BlackChat
- Is BES/MDS specific to Blackberry?
- Explanation of MDS vs MDG and GPRS gateways
- Mention of breaking BWC 10 megabyte barrier.
- Wireless TTY service info and $39.95 per year DeafBES service
- Addition of prices and trial periods to Blackberry software


Posted by: sting0r

I am really dying to sign up for one of these services, but dont want to waste money on the setup fees. Anyone know any way to find out if you can use the BWC and two BES servers? I dont want to screw up my work email, but we dont have a BES server. Anyone have any contacts at RIM, I can't even find a number to call them up on that I dont need a support account with them for.


Posted by: pHoNeGeEk215

Eoutlook is actually roughly $22.85 a month ($15.90 for 2 mailboxes- which is minimum req. and $6.95 for the blackberry service). It comes out to about the same as Mailstreet. OOOh yeah i also noticed most if not all of the MDS providers have a "set up" or "activation fee" for blackberry devices of $39.95 - $50.00. Still cheaper than getting a normal BES though. I'll stick with buggin cingular to add MDS.


Posted by: sting0r

Anyone know if T-Mobile has any plans to add MDS or MDG???


Posted by: Mark Rejhon

Hi,

Supposedly, it is possible to access two BES servers. But you can only use ONE for calendar synchronization, ONE for MDS, and ONE for directory lookup. You can send/receive emails on multiple BES systems, from what I have heard.

This leads me to believe, that it is possible to use one BES for Exchange, while accessing a different BES For MDS.

Forum member mobilet68i is the source of this information. Please confirm before attempting multiple-BES on a Blackberry.


Posted by: mbhan

Ok, you can stop laughing now.

But seriously, any future plans for VZW to open up the gates and give us some MDS as opposed to just friggin' email for 44.95?


Posted by: Mark Rejhon

Supposedly, I heard the full 4.0 suite of software (Blackberry OS 4.0, BWC 4.0, BES 4.0, and any 4.0 version of carrier software if any other than BWC) will make it dead easy for a carrier to provide some sort of MDG service.

I think this will trigger nearly all carriers to provide MDG service by early-mid 2005. (Many will jump aboard 2004, hopefully Rogers included, but it is possible at least a few will sit on 4.0 for a few months longer by staying with 3.6. So I am not going to raise anyone's expectations too much.)

Either way, things will be getting more interesting with Blackberry Internet. Keep tuned!


Posted by: Spicy

Mark,

I received your post at ATT along with the url u provided unfortunately it went dead end so I thought I would post reply to this since the subject is also related.

Does ICQ blackchat require BES?

LomarLogicTTY is not that great. Too slow, according to my friend.

I'm not sure if it was because of without BES. Can you verify that it's still not that great even with BES hosting?


Karen


Posted by: Mark Rejhon

Yes, you need BES for BlackChat.

Lormar is better with the BES, but not as fast as I want it. I tend to prefer MCI Wireless IP Relay which is much faster than Lormar Logic. It works with Idokorro MobileSSH. I also have set up my very own Linux TTY server too, more information I posted in the Technology forum at the www.AllDeaf.com deaf chat forums. So that means I have three methods (1) MCI Wireless IP Relay, (2) Lormar Logic, and (3) My own Linux TTY server. The (1) and (3) options require Idokorro. There is only a 1 second delay with MCI Wireless IP Relay or my TTY Server (using Idokorro), instead of a 10 second delay with Lormar.


Posted by: taliesan

Thanks for this FAQ! It's helping me get the most out of my new 7750.

You mention in the June 2 update that Telus has added an MDG. I assume this is what I need to allow things like reqwireless to work?

I searched the Telus site and can't find mention of the MDG... Where can I find the info?

Any other tips re: the best configuration of 3rd party apps are appreciated...

Thanks,

Tal.


Posted by: Mark Rejhon

Telus does not give information about their MDG. It's really one of their best-kept secrets, it seems. Essentially, you won't be able to learn about it until you're already owning 7750 unit. Since you say you already have the 7750, follow the application installation's instruction on how to configure it to use MDG. For example, just download and install WebMessenger and see if it works.

Since I am on Rogers and not Telus, I am not familiar with the exact configuration instructions for a Nextel/Telus Blackberry, except that people have reported it works. If you need help, ask just about any Nextel or Telus user who already has an MDS/MDG capable application running -- a thread titled "How do I get MDG working on a Nextel/Telus Blackberry?". If a Nextel veteran can produce a good short 1-paragraph worth of instructions on the steps of getting MDG working, I'll add it to this FAQ.

For the preferred configuration of an application, some people like to keep an application running at defaults. For example, Reqwireless Webviewer works great at defaults. Others, like to tweak their application configurations, such as WebMessenger notification alerts and timeout delays, etc.


Posted by: taliesan

Thanks for the quick reply.

I just hung up from Telus customer support and they stated they don't support MDS/MDG without BES running.

I'm probably missing something, but I thought that based on...

"I heard my carrier is going to provide a public MDS/MDG service for free.

Another carrier called Telus in Canada is now already including MDG service with their newly introduced Blackberries. Various rumors have occasionally surfaced throughout the Internet about carrier plans to deploy public MDG services. Another carrier following the NexTel approach of a public Multimedia Data Gateway (MDG). There are supposedly plans by some carriers to introduce MDG service, which would make a BES/MDS hosting service unnecessary for using Blackberry Internet applications."

...from the FAQ that I didn't need BES running to access MDG through Telus?

I'll start the thread you mention. Thanks again!


Posted by: Mark Rejhon

Somebody in that thread just said it only works on a Telus 7510, not a Telus 7750. This will need to be confirmed by at least a few people.

Perhaps Telus is not very interested in providing MDS service, and was just using Nextel-configured 7510's that already had MDS enabled, and that Telus didn't want to publicize this feature.

Time will tell; when more Telus users try this out. I may need to make certain updates to this FAQ, regarding Telus.


Posted by: mbhan

Unfortunately, this unit is not working out for me. There are quite a few bugs that need to be worked out. Additionally, the BB does really only one thing well: email. As a phone, even with VZW's crystal service here in NYC, it is inferior to the LG's and Moto's I've had. This is understandable, although unacceptable for a $500 unit.

My biggest gripe is with BB software. I'm used to Palm OS and find it excellent for managing many things. BB OS is a disappointment, and even with 4.0 around the corner (a long corner) I feel that many issues will need to be worked out.

Perhaps the nail in the coffin is future of the Treo 610 (presumably on VZW), which I think will be worth the wait for me (and many others). Palm's future inclusion of Rim's "push" technology will be gravy on top of the Treo.

As for now, I cannot justify getting emails pushed to me (from work and POP3) while sacrificing phone and OS funtionality for $500 (plus VZW data fees).

Best of luck to all!


Posted by: Mark Rejhon

With the recent reports about Palm using Blackberry software on some future handhelds, I'll probably trial the TREO 610 if it comes with Blackberry software preinstalled and if stability/reception/battery life reports is very good, and if I can learn how to thumbtouchtype fast on those cramped TREO keyboards. I'll admit that TREO has better web browsing.

However, push email is more important to me (That's what Blackberries excel in!), and the applications on the Blackberry are reasonable enough for me. The catalog, while small, is growing. I'm also a dual PDA person, with an iPaq 4155 PocketPC as my backup and for multimedia use. (85% Blackberry usage, 15% PDA usage). Both PDA's are synchronized to the same Microsoft Outlook simultaneously.

While the addressbook on the RIM may be worse than it seems at first to a first time user coming from a Palm/PocketPC background, it is actually fairly fast for quick lookups. For example for a quick addressbook lookup on a Blackberry, you just type "AMARK<enter>" .... first key being the "A" and the last key being Enter, with the middle being the name you want to look up (or a fraction thereof). The first key launches Addressbook from the main screen, then type the name of the person to lookup, and hit Enter to display record. No need to pull out a stylus in this case. However, there are, indeed, some rather severe limitations to the Blackberry PIM like poor category management at least until BES 4.0. But for an addressbook lookup I have learned how to do it very quickly on a Blackberry now using that technique. (I've been using various PalmOS handhelds too since 1997 with the PalmPilot Professional as well -- and was once the fastest Grafittier in a PDA-entry contest* I participated in a few years ago, beating slightly 40 words per minute using Grafitti) .... Now I prefer the Blackberry thumb keyboard, which I have been able to clock a maximum of 72.4 words per minute on (5 keypresses average per word, including spacebar -- 363 characters typed in a 1 minute paragraph speed typing test). The TREO's and other Palm handhelds don't come close. PDA input speed is more important for me; I can't input data fast enough into a Palm -- even though people notice I am one of the fastest Grafitti writers. Now, that being said, the question is whether one thinks the Blackberry PIM is good enough for their needs. It definitely is good enough for me (300 contacts) with very fast lookups. It may not be good enough for someone who has 4000 contacts that now needs to be slotted into categories.

(* Contest: Link -- Dom Perignon PDA typing/stylus entry contest -- Entry #35 is the fastest Grafitti entry (ME!), with Entry #1 being an older TREO thumb keyboard (bigger unit). Unfortunately, blackberries did not qualify in this contest, because they didn't have authenticated input entry testing software for Blackberries at the time. As an additional note, PocketPC Block Recognizer is nearly exactly the same thing as Grafitti, usually slightly less efficient than Grafitti.)


Posted by: ewalker3

hey guys.

couple of questions:

If I sign up with one of the BES hosting providers, I can use my tmobile sim in a blackberry and be able to get the full features of a bes connected blackberry?

or would I have to pay the additional fee for blackberry service to tmobile?

If I were to setup a BES server(hypothetical) the clients would just point to my server address, and then be able to use the gateway to get full services?

is there a bes server without the lotus/microsoft email connectiivty?
do i understand that with the bes connect blackberry i could pull down pop mail from my personal email account?

thanks,
ed


Posted by: Mark Rejhon

Hi,

You would not have to pay extra to your carrier. (However, if you are not on an unlimited data plan, your BES/MDS data usage will come off your kilobytes meter. So keep an eye on that if you're not on an unlimited plan)

If you set up the BES, you can only have one BES per account, since you must also setup the Blackberry with the same email address as the BES server (although you don't necessarily have to USE it; you can keep using the BWC email address - but now you have the option selecting between BWC and BES when sending outgoing emails). And since you can only have one Blackberry per unique email address, you cannot recycle the same one email account on the BES server to provide MDS service to multiple Blackberries. BES kind of links MDS (gateway access) to the email address, so you need to purchase multiple licenses of BES (i.e. 5-user BES license -- or just simply buying multiple Mailstreet accounts)

No, there is no BES server without the email connectivity, but you can always leave the email connectivity dormant. (I actually do it that way, since Rogers BWC is pretty good and fast for emails)

Your BWC account should alraedy provide a 'POP pull' service (all the Blackberry carriers provide this), so you do not need BES for POP pull. Keep in mind that POP pull is a 15-minute poll frequency, while your Blackberry or BES address is 4-second "instant" push email reception.


Posted by: jaxf250

Quote:
Originally posted by sting0r
Anyone know if T-Mobile has any plans to add MDS or MDG???


They are testing one now it seems. My friend got a new 7730 from TMO and complained loudly about not being able to see any real web sites (i.e. non-WAP sites) and BB gave him to the TMO HW account engineer who got him the right settings to surf the web w/o a problem. So this tells me they have a MDS/MDG in pilot mode and will release it soon for general consumption. If he could get thru to BB to get the settings, I would think others could too....


Posted by: Mobile PhD

would your friend be willing to share those settings with anyone(HoFo)? You would be everyone's new best friend.


Posted by: Mark Rejhon

My friend from Rogers just (again) confirmed MDS is coming but this time he sounded excited and that it is "really soon". Keep tuned...


Posted by: shnassar

Hope this isn't a silly question, but if I do use one of these services, do I still have to pay Rogers for my data plan and data usage on top of the service (BES).


Posted by: pawn

Quote:
Originally posted by Mark Rejhon
My friend from Rogers just (again) confirmed MDS is coming but this time he sounded excited and that it is "really soon". Keep tuned...



Actually, you can use it right now, although it's not fully open (no IPPP, i.e., no third party applications), but you can use the Blackberry browser with MDS.


Posted by: shnassar

Can you explain how to do that, use blackberry with MDS on Rogers.


Posted by: pawn

Quote:
Originally posted by shnassar
Can you explain how to do that, use blackberry with MDS on Rogers.



- Enter Options/Service Book

- Delete "WAP Browser(Rogers)". Don't worry, you can undelete (see below).

- Go up to "WAP Transport for Rogers". Write down, precisely, the text after CID and UID. Case sensitive, BTW.

- Go back to your home screen. You need to open the browser and get to the Options page. The only way to do this now is holding ALT key, and clicking the Escape key, and scrolling to the browser.

- Go to Options. Type "rbro" to get extended options.

- Go to "Browser Configuration". Scroll down to Browser CID and UID, and replace the values with what you wrote down earlier. You might want to write down the default values first, although I didn't. (P.S.: I backed up my device prior to changing anything, but the restore did not change these values at all.)

- exit back to home screen saving options.

- Go back to Options/Service Book and undelete the WAP Browser.

That'll do it.

WARNING: my browser did not work after doing this, but my friend's did. Rogers technical support did not seem to care that I was screwing with this and were more than happy to help me by implementing some sort of code on their end that made my browser, and the BlackBerry browser work. They said it was rare, but the odd person has the problem that caused my browser not to work.

Have fun.


Posted by: ronil

Hi Guys,

If I understand correctly this Service (MDS) is basically replacing the original blackberry server that you would normally get with your carrier ie rogers for email and other services.

So I guess my question is, if I have an unlimited DATA plan with FIDO a company that offers GPRS and WAP but no black berry services could I technically add the MDS through an external party, pay them and fido for my account to work on an unlocked RIM?

(Reason being I am on a corporate account with fido that gives me unlimited data and city fido for about $50)


Posted by: Mark Rejhon

shnassar,

Yes, you will keep paying Rogers for a data plan -- any data usage over MDS deducts off your data plan. But you don't pay Rogers anything else extra for using MDS, except for data usage over MDS.

ronil,

No, MDS does not replace the original Blackberry server. The Blackberry server is still used for always-on push email (4-second realtime "email dialtone equivalent", rather than 15-minute "intermittent email checking").

You get emails nearly instantly after the other person clicks SEND -- without needing to select "Check Email" or wait for the next automatic check (polling). That can't be done on the recipient end without using a push email system such as Blackberry or Exchange. So, without a Blackberry server, your Blackberry email will not work. So that's why Blackberry servers exist, and will likely continue to exist.

The BES is used to allow OTHER types of Internet stuff working on the Blackberry -- like instant messaging, chat applications, full web browsing, mobile administration/telnet/SSH, etc.


Posted by: ronil

One last question, Is there any way then, that I could get a RIM working on a FIDO network with push email (ie any other company that I could subscribe to push email)


Posted by: Mark Rejhon

You would need Fido's and RIM's help. Why not contact Fido and ask -- they might not be willing to help, but you could try. We could use more Blackberry-compatible GPRS networks, anyway!


Posted by: prf

The reqwireless site says that a BB 7750 can access html sites w/reqwireless using mobileweb4u. If this is so, is there any reason to go with mailstreet or eoutlook only to access the internet? I understand I can forward my pop3 and msn mail to the BWC so I get push email and I can't take advantage of wireless sync'ing of contacts, calendar or email b/c I still can't get broadband connection on my desktop. So seems mailstreet or eoutlook don't add anything to my bb I won't already have. Am I mistaken? Thank you for your help.


Posted by: Mark Rejhon

Hi,

VNC for Blackberry
(A free PCAnywhere style client for remote access to Windows or Linux desktops)

http://www.ethell.com/j2mevnc/

Requires BES. (Or Nextel's public gateway)


Posted by: Mark Rejhon

New. Cheap $10 per month MDS! No restrictions on who can apply for this service (i.e. not restricted to deaf individuals, such as DeafBES)

http://www.myblackberry.us/

No experience with this myself, but a PDAStreet (RIMROAD) review looked promising. This FAQ will be updated eventually to include this.


Posted by: kirson

Hi Mark,

In the initial FAQ you wrote:

BlackChat ICQ for Blackberry.....This is a free ICQ client for Blackberry. It is an open source program, listed on this SourceForge page and the source code CVS is available. This source code can even be improved to include other chat networks if you are a knowledgeable developer.....

Do you know whether anyone has actually improved the source code to include other chat networks? In particualr, MSN Messenger? It would be really nice to have a good MSN Messenger client for free

Thanks!

Ian


Posted by: Mark Rejhon

Not to my knowledge -- However, there are now multiple open-source J2ME projects that work on a Blackberry now -- WirelessIRC, BlackChat, and VNC.

They are listed in this thread:
The Blackberry Killer Appplications Thread

If any of you Blackberry users who are also Java programmers, consider donating a few lines of programming code to one of these open source projects or creating a new project (Many people I know need an inexpensive telnet/SSH client, for example!)


Posted by: WirelessAndy

Quote:
Originally posted by Mark Rejhon
No, MDS does not replace the original Blackberry server. The Blackberry server is still used for always-on push email (4-second realtime "email dialtone equivalent", rather than 15-minute "intermittent email checking").

You get emails nearly instantly after the other person clicks SEND -- without needing to select "Check Email" or wait for the next automatic check (polling). That can't be done on the recipient end without using a push email system such as Blackberry or Exchange. So, without a Blackberry server, your Blackberry email will not work. So that's why Blackberry servers exist, and will likely continue to exist.

The BES is used to allow OTHER types of Internet stuff working on the Blackberry -- like instant messaging, chat applications, full web browsing, mobile administration/telnet/SSH, etc.


My GAWD! I've been out of the loop.

I'm considering a re-entry into the Blackberry world. One of my chief complaints about my last experience (with Cingular) was that the email polling was a 15-min interval. I'm used to a faster notification time when I use my regular GSM phone's SMS system for email notification.

So, let's see if I understand this whole MDS/BES thing:

1) If I subscribe to Cingular's Xpress Mail with Blackberry, I know I get the usual Blackberry email once per 15 minutes...

It states:

Retrieve e-mail from up to 10 ISP accounts or your corporate e-mail with a BlackBerry Wireless Handheld. Send, receive, forward, and reply to messages while on the go! Xpress Mail data features can be added to voice plans too. To add Xpress Mail to a voice plan, choose a BlackBerry device and then add an Xpress Mail data feature.

(The two you can choose from are a 3MB data plan and an unlimited plan)

I assume this is NOT the same thing I need if I want real-time email. When I had this before, I had it set up to check my personal Yahoo POP mail every 15 min, and I could surf the web on the Blackberry 6280. I didn't try Instant Messaging programs.

So, let's see if I understand this correctly: If I want realtime email sent to the Blackberry as well as Instant Messaging capabilities from WebMessenger, I need Mobile Data Services (MDS) via someone like MailStreet or the other providers listed in the Sticky? But I STILL need to subscribe to one of the Cingular Xpress Mail Plans to get the "service"?


Posted by: Mark Rejhon

To clear up confusion:
All Blackberries include realtime email -- ALL of them -- Cingular provides a BWC account with that good realtime email that arrives on your Blackberry nearly instantly. The extras for 10 ISP / POP accounts are in addition on top of this

This thread is of interest to you if you want chatting applications or other Internet applications that doesn't work without BES/MDS. So yes, you need MDS if you want to have good chatting software and other Internet software such as telnet/SSH.


Posted by: WirelessAndy

Mark,

Thanks for the clarification.

After I posted, I realized that I never used the "dedicated" assigned Cingular/Blackberry email account, which was something like, "username @ cingular.blackberry. com"

What you're saying is: THAT included email is the equivalent of the realtime mail. It's the extra "check your own POP" that's polled at 15 min intervals...?

Well, that's sort of promising. Now I need to figure out how to fwd my Yahoo mail to the Blackberry w/o seriously messing up normal POP retreival... But that's my problem.

So it sounds like I'll need a 3rd party hosted service- like MailStreet- if I want to use something keen like WebMessenger.


Posted by: Mark Rejhon

You got that right. Use your blackberry.com or blackberry.net email address for the realtime "4-second-email".

Yes, at the moment, you will likely need to be using MailStreet for using Internet software.


Posted by: Mark Rejhon

As an aside for this thread, another useful thread:

Blackberry Over-The-Air Software Downloads


Posted by: Mark Rejhon

Updated significantly:

- Over-The-Air download information
- Midlet download sites
- Four different telnet programs (only Idokorro works well)
- Four different instant message programs (See midlet download site link)
- Two different IRC chat programs
- VNC remote-control software
- Added MyBlackberry.us to providers list


Posted by: Mark Rejhon

After the deployment of the TCP/IP stack on Blackberries, prosumer/individual demand for 3rd party BES/MDS hosting will definitely go down but not dissappear. I have decided I will probably keep my Mailstreet BES/MDS because of the below reasons:A few days ago, my @rogers.blackberry.net address took 5 minutes to arrive, while my BES/MDS email arrives in just 3-4 seconds. Usually both are almost identical in speed. It's true -- a slow BWC often doesn't have any impact on the performance of BES/MDS. Web surfing through BES/MDS was also faster too in those times of a heavily loaded BWC. When I reconfigure the browser to download through BWC then BES/MDS, then BWC, then BES/MDS, I can see a very clear peformance improvement by surfing through BES/MDS. Sometimes web requests are delayed by over 30 seconds, while I get a start of a download in a short moment when web browsing through the BES/MDS. Not always, Rogers BWC is usually very fast. (Doesn't RIM operate the blackberry.net servers though? If so, obviously they prioritize BES/MDS traffic then.)

RIM very much intends to keep advantages of having a BES. They're continually adding more and more features to BES, to keep people using BES even when it is no longer necessary for other things.


Posted by: mberry

Sorry for the beginner question, but is it possible to download ring tones for the Blackberry 7230? If so, any suggestions? Just getting started here.


Posted by: Mark Rejhon

mberry,

About ringtone downloads: You might get a faster answer if you post your question in a new thread. It's actually somewhat of a different topic than this thread and I'm not sure of the answer; my apologies in advance!


Posted by: mberry

Mark,
Many thanks. I'll try another thread.


Posted by: pr0pel

With the addition of the 7100T though TMO, is the BES still necessary? I figured for the 59.99 monthly fee, you will get access to everything.


Posted by: mookia

Quote:
Originally posted by Mark Rejhon
If you are a deaf or hard of hearing person who needs a Blackberry TTY or a Blackberry Relay service, there is now the new Lormar Logic $39.95 PER YEAR BES/MDS HOSTING for the deaf!

That's only $3.32 per month for MDS, folks!!!!

I might eventually switch from Mailstreet because I just want MDS (no Exchange). However, I will keep the Mailstreet recommendation because this is a deal only available to deaf/hard-of-hearing people who want to convert a Blackberry into a TTY/TDD. Only big disadvantage is that you have to send your pager away to Lormar Logic to get it added. That's another restriction that might keep me staying on Mailstreet. However, this is a good option for all those poor deaf students who can't afford BES/MDS. (Like Gallaudet University -- a big deaf university)

Also, if you are deaf, see Lormar Logic's new Real Time TTY Software/Service for Blackberries.



I heard that BES will provide as upgrade for some or all blackberry coming on nov hopefully. Then you wouldnt need BES from lormar login or SHH anymore. It is best to wait around corner soon before you make a decision.

There is another question, I forget what url address where to find add some games or any stuff on the blackberry. Thanks


Posted by: Mark Rejhon

mookia -- I made that post a long time ago

I have stayed with Mailstreet actually. I didn't switch, as I wanted the reliability of a bigger company. I have been using Hosted MDS since April.

Rogers TCP/IP already works without need for BES, on 7100's, 7290's out of the box, as well as older models upgraded to BlackBerryOS 4.0. (Options->TCP->APN needs to be set to "blackberry.net" though).

Same for T-Mobile and AT&T ... You can run MDS apps now without BES, assuming the above criteria.


Posted by: Mark Rejhon

Quote:
NEWSFLASH: TCP/IP without need for MDS!

UPDATED NEW INFORMATION 2004-11-05: There is now alternate ways to get TCP/IP on a BlackBerry, if that is all you need on a BlackBerry! For more information, please see:
Carrier WAP/APN Settings for TCP/IP on BlackBerry


The Hosted Blackberry Enterprise Server Thread
aka "How To Get Access To HTML/telnet/AIM/ICQ/MSN/chatting from a Blackberry (without buying BES)"

Target Audience:
...Your carrier or BlackBerryOS does not support TCP/IP?
...Need AIM / ICQ / MSN Instant Messaging on a Blackberry?
...Or need telnet/SSH access to your home Linux system?
...Want better web access on a Blackberry?
...Get 100+ MB email space, breaking the 10 MB barrier?
...Be able to download software Over-The-Air?

[Original: Feb 13th, 2004]
[Edited: November 12th, 2004]

...As an individual or self-employed person, you just bought a Blackberry all on your own. You LOVE it for its email! Now you want to install other applications for HTML/telnet/ssh/chat/AIM/ICQ/MSN/etc. You want to install the stuff you heard about including Idokorro, Reqwireless, Webmessenger, and all the great tools you see on the Internet. But they don't work! Your carrier doesn't support TCP/IP on your BlackBerry out of the box, even though other carriers such as Rogers and T-Mobile now allow TCP/IP via Public MDS! You are frustrated that it's not possible because of something called "MDS". You're a person who's willing to pay a few tens of dollars extra per month just to get access to the extra goodies. But you are shocked it costs almost a thousand dollars just to buy server software that enables all the nifty extra features you were hoping to use on a Blackberry. You're now tempted by other mobile devices such as TREO, Sidekick, Hiptop, smartphones, etc... but you then notice none seem to do email as good as Blackberry can!

Target audienceBlackberry Attraction? What's The Big Deal?

First-time readers may be wondering what the hoopla is about. Blackberry phones have such good thumb keyboards and very good reliability. Email on Blackberry is generally vastly superior to everything else including other cellphones, other smartphones, PocketPC, PalmOS handhelds. Some invidual non-business users are starting to buy Blackberry because they really love its email; even if not as good for things like videogames. While not the Blackberry keyboard is much lauded to have an extremely good feel allowing some people to type as fast as 70 words per minute on a device that is smaller than a wallet. If Blackberry is so great for email, why shouldn't I also run other Internet applications on it like I can do on a PalmOS and PocketPC? An interesting piece of Blackberry history is that USA goverment prevented a USA company from shutting down the Blackberry network with a lawsuit [WashingtonPost.com link] -- despite that Blackberry is a Canadian technology. This is surprising, considering relations between USA and Canada since 9/11 -- it does underscore how good and addictive Blackberries are. According to news articles, Blackberries were deployed throughout the federal government shortly after 9/11 and the anthrax evacuations, to improve communiations during crisis.

Why Is MDS Required?

MDS means Mobile Data Services, which is explained on this web page at Research In Motion. The simplest english to the layman is that MDS essentially makes full Internet access possible on your Blackberry. Without access to MDS, it is almost as if you are behind "The Great Firewall" that blocks all ports except for email and WAP, limiting your ability to use your Blackberry. Most Blackberries do not have true GSM/GPRS Internet access at this time, and Internet access must be piped through MDS. The original market for Blackberries are corporations, and this is why a server solution is marketed. A medium and larger size corporation generally has no problem getting a Blackberry Enterprise Server solution set up, However, these days, the Blackberry market is diversifying and there are now more and more individual and self-employed users of Blackberries, and do not need all of BES features. A variant of MDS is called MDG, which stands for Multimedia Data Gateway. An MDG is essentially a public MDS server. As of the time of this writing, only Nextel provides a free MDG with their service.

How do I get MDS?

If you're a big enough corporation, it's not a problem. You just need to buy a Blackberry Enterprise Server (BES). However, they are generally too expensive for sole individuals because they start at $995 for a 5-user license. Some discounts can be found through a reseller, but this still burns a huge hole in an individual's pocket. Not to mention, you will need a dedicated Internet connection at your home to run BES at home. Sometimes, a small group of people are so desparate that they have pooled their money and actually purchased BES to share amongst themselves. Today, now an easier option has cropped up: a hosting service! Just like buying inexpensive web hosting instead of having an expensive T1/T3 to your home, you can finally now get BES hosting today. Surprise! Preliminary checks on pricing like a very manageable monthly fee that's actually is less than an average telephone or cable bill.

Oh No, Not Another Monthly Fee!

Unfortunately, it's a lot more appealing for individuals and self-employed consultants than paying several hundreds of dollars and running a dedicated server at home. Blackberries are like Crackberries - they are the most addictive wireless Internet devices around - and you'll pay a premium to get the best mobile Internet experience.

Do I need MDS for realtime email?

No. You don't need MDS for realtime email; you can already use your blackberry.net / blackberry.com email address and you'll receive emails on it nearly instantly (about 4 seconds after clicking send on desktop). This does not apply to POP mailboxes you add to your Blackberry, which are on a 15-minute poll.

I only need email and don't care about MDS.

True, most people only need the great email feature of Blackberry and is happy to stick with it. But some of us want to be able to chat on instant messaging networks such as AIM, ICQ, and MSN. Others of us want remote access to our home computer for retrieving files, or want SSH access to their own Linux box. Some of us are gladly willing to pay tens of dollars extra per month to gain access to such features, but the service provider won't provide the feature.

I can just use Rogers, T-Mobile, AT&T, NexTel, Telus Instead, they give me full Blackberry Internet access.

Great, if you're one of the lucky ones! For instructions on how to setup TCP/IP on a BlackBerry, see this thread. Recent Blackberry models such as 7100 and 7290 on these carriers are known to have full access to the Internet. Older BlackBerries upgraded to BlackBerryOS 4.0 also have full access to the Internet now. These carriers are great if you are in one of their great coverage areas. However, not everybody of us are in their good coverage areas and some of us need a Blackberry that can roam. For example, there is now GSM/GPRS coverage in Canada driving along inter-city highways between major Canadian cities, with certain providers in Canada. Other people want to still be able to receive email while travelling aboard.

How do I do Over-The-Air Downloads?

You launch the Blackberry Browser (or WAP browser) and click on any link that connects to a .jad file. These are tiny Java applications called Midlets. In technical terms, these are J2ME applications (MIDP 1.0). By having access to MDS, you can easily do Over-The-Air downloads of software directly to your Blackberry, just like downloading software to a modern Java powered cellphone. (Blackberry actually uses the same Java language). That means software designed for a Nokia or Motorola cellphone can work on your BlackBerry! Two of the most popular Over-The-Air download websites are Midlet.org and J2ME-Software.com. On some midlet download sites, sometimes you may have to masquerade as another cellphone or select "All Devices" in order to get access to a clickable .jad link on your Blackberry.

I heard my carrier is going to provide a public MDS/MDG service for free.

Yes, that's right. Several carriers including Rogers, T-Mobile, AT&T, Nextel, and Telus now provide TCP/IP capabilities on BlackBerries! This is also called "Blackberry Internet Connection Service" internally at some carriers. Service books are often called "BlackBerry Internet Browsing Service". Additional carriers are already beta-testing this. Even with a public MDS, there are still the advantages of bigger email space and potential better performance using a separate BES/MDS hosting service. In the meantime, most hosting services are month-by-month, so you can cancel once your carrier provides Public MDS service. To help accelerate your carrier's deployment of Public MDS, call your carrier's Blackberry department and request support for Public MDS and tell them Rogers, T-Mobile, AT&T, Nextel and Telus now support it. As an example, tell your carrier about Verichat and WebMessenger instant messaging, and how it will improve Blackberry sales if users could easily install Internet applications on Blackberry. Point your carrier's support department to this thread, to help educate even more people at the carrier understand the need for Public MDS.

Is MDS/MDG Specific To Blackberries?

Not quite. All modern cellphones with access to the Internet, require a gateway of some kind. You may have heard of these in different naming conventions such as GGSN, APN, MDG, etc. In simple terms, they essentially make connections possible between a carrier network and an external network, such as the Internet on your mobile device (or even just a simple connection to a BES server). If you have heard of GGSN (APN) on a cellphone, then that's a network component similiar to MDG. More information about various gateway services is provided on this SourceO2 page and on this Motorola iDEN page. Only MDS is Blackberry specific, while MDG and GGSN (APN) is not Blackberry specific. In fact, MDS still uses MDG in order to connect between a Blackberry and a BES server, and then from there, mobile Internet connections are made through your company's Internet connection. Credit given to a forum member (Deefer) who recently gave an excellent explanation that made this paragraph possible.

Finding Cheap Access To MDS

A cheaper way of getting access to MDS for individuals. Individual self-employed people like me can't always justify paying $595 or $995 for a Blackberry Enterprise Server just to get access to web, chat, IM, telnet/ssh and other utilities that require MDS There is huge demand out there by self-employed individuals (like me) who want their Blackberry to be able to do full HTML, telnet/ssh, AIM/ICQ/MSN messaging, and other sysadmin utilities, perhaps to connect to their home computer, etc. People like me are willing to pay an additional monthly fee to gain access to additional applications such as instant messaging and being able to do HTML web browsing with color graphics. As long as it is not a large one-time fee such as $595 or $995, considering that a few Blackberry carriers and most non-Blackberry carriers already include full Internet service at no extra charge.

Blackberry Internet Applications For Consumers/Prosumers:

There are now several dozens of Internet applications including at least two working IRC clients, at least three working web browsing clients, and at least two instant messaging clients. For other software, please see the Blackberry Killer Applications Thread. A small sampling of applications include the following:
Optional Hosted BES/MDS Services


Posted by: ceben

Thanks to everyone for the great info. I just bought the 7290 and got verichat up and running. I wasn't sure if it was supported until I read this thread.

I do have one question though: Should I use the web browser out of the box or download another app or make changes to the current configuration to get the best performance, etc?

I'm definitely a newbie so any info is greatly appreciated.

Thanks


Posted by: Mark Rejhon

You do not need to purchase MDS for a Rogers 7290.

For more info, see the BlackBerry FAQ thread instead for setting up TCP/IP on a BlackBerry:
http://www.blackberryforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=13087


Posted by: w1cked

Quote:
Originally posted by El Chino
Mark, I got the BES setup and stuff.. Now Webmessenger is working.. However i can see my self online.. and if i send a aim from the blackberry it gets there too!. however when people try to reply to me.. i get nothing on my blackberry.. am i missing something?

thanks!


i don't mean to be speaking for mark, but i think that you shold start a new thread about webmessenger issues, rather than mds issues...


Posted by: Mark Rejhon

Newsflash -- As of December 2004, it is now necessary to use MDS again on T-Mobile in order to use TCP/IP. For more information, please see the T-Mobile threads.


Posted by: martiny

I am currently based in Israel and want to use my BB without paying huge fees to T-Mobile for roaming (1.5 cents /KB adds up.)

The operators here do not yet support Blackberry. So when, I insert a local sim in my unlocked 7230, I get grps coverage, not GRPS coverage. In other words, No Data! It is only when I put in my US T-Mobile sim that I get GRPS coverage on the local carrier (through roaming)

Is it possible to work around this problem (either by not having to pay the outlandish roaming fees or by being able to use a local sim) by subscribing to a BES/MDS Service?

If not, any other ideas?; while internet browsing would be good; email is essential.


Posted by: Mark Rejhon

Hello DarrenGuy,

Can you remove the sticky for this outdated thread; this thread is no longer necessary that Public MDS (full TCP/IP stack) is now included with nearly all North American carriers;

The newer Hosted BES FAQ is linked to anyway in the "BlackBerry FAQ".

Thanks in advance!




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