vB Easy Archive - Which do you prefer: Auto or stick?

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Which do you prefer: Auto or stick?
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Posted by: Adri1456

I drove an automatic when I had my permit.

Posted by: chrix

If the car is good, then it doesn't matter.

If the car is bad, then it wouldn't matter anyways.

Posted by: GT-[R]

Quote:

Originally posted by chrix
If the car is good, then it doesn't matter.

If the car is bad, then it wouldn't matter anyways.

lmao

Posted by: NextelsOnly

Manual

Posted by: crocket

I have to agree if a car has enough balls it does'nt matter, personally i prefer a automatic.

Posted by: [bisheadking]

prefer auto for daily driving.

Posted by: JwY

it depends what you're trying to do and what car you have
if it's for everyday driving then auto is less of a hassle probably
but i prefer manual
nothing like manual to get a good feel for your car
the beauty of STi's is that you don't need to decide since it's only available in manual

true racecar right there

Posted by: wuman82

manual for me, more control of the car when you have a manual. Specially in winter when theres snow on the ground, beeing able to controle what gear you are in is important.

Posted by: c^2

Manual.

Auto is boring.

edit: I'd like to add I prefer automatic in larger vehicles (vans, trucks, SUVs)...also...the ultra long-throw shifters in Jeep TJs are horrible. I'd never get a TJ in manual.

Posted by: TheOne

I voted for the 3rd..

I prefer manuals in sporty cars, and large trucks. For every day vehicles and luxury sedans auto is the way to go.

Posted by: WoNGsTeR

i prefer driving manual.. for everyday use and whatever... esp for everyday use.. keeps me awake in traffic.. lol...

Posted by: SharpST77

depends on the car

Posted by: mau108

stick for long trips, auto for downtown driving...

Posted by: Heavy Fluid

Quote:

Originally posted by JwY
the beauty of STi's is that you don't need to decide since it's only available in manual

Yup. That is just another reason that I love my Focus SVT. No need to worry about there only being an automatic when I went to purchase it at the dealer. They don't make em.

Oh yeah, 3 out of the last 4 cars I have owned have been manuals. I hate teh auto.

Posted by: Gatorade

Depends what kind of car

If i was driving a turbocharged minivan with 400 hp I'd take an automatic

Posted by: Skylinepilot

If I know my drive will be just sitting in traffic on my daily drive then maybe automatic, everything else is manual for me. I get so bored with automatic, I lose attention to easily especially if I feel really tired. For higher performing cars I will still take a manual, I don't think I could get the full feel of the car without it.

Posted by: DannyBoy413

manual all the way, even for daily driving.

Posted by: frankie

If the car is good, then it doesn't matter

Posted by: buhdussy

Try driving my manual and you will be begging for an automatic. Higher torque cars have clucthes that are a pain in the Calves. All your little economobiles have easy clutches, which makes them a lot more bearable to drive, especially in traffic, and whoever said driving in snow is easier with a manual, I think your wrong, because you have to depress the clutch everytime you slow down a little on slippery roads.

Posted by: techwiz

I think I'd prefer a manual..... I just gotta learn how to drive one "properly".

Posted by: [IFC]Area51

Quote:

Originally posted by [bisheadking]
prefer auto for daily driving.

YUP, i agree with you on this one, i used to drive manual in the city and seriously it was torture for me. NEVER AGAIN.

Posted by: c^2

I drive an econobox with a light clutch so it's perfectly fine for daily driving.

Posted by: punkrckdrummer

I love driving manual, I'm 1 of the 2 people in my house that can drive a stick (me and my dad). I've been driving for a year now and my friend tought me how to drive a stick on his '95 Mustang GT

. I loved it and now I drive a '92 ford escort and '01 ford taurus both auto, but give me a stick anyday

Posted by: rovert

I like manuals for any kind of driving. I found that from switching to manual, my attention to the road and surroundings have increase because I am more connected to the car with all limbs.
Even traffic it's nice to just use the clutch and not fight the force of an auto trying to move forward when you let the brake out slightly. I think the only pain would be a manual in stop and go traffic on an excessively steep uphill, but that's rare in my location.

The clutch seems to be easier in higher torqued cars too, except super cars like a Ferrari 550 Maranello which is super super heavy! I drive my dad's 540i auto a lot and after driving the 540i 6 speed manual, I sure like the manual tranny better as the huge torque power is very forgiving if you let the clutch out too quickly plus you don't really need gas to even start moving. I find even with the Audi A4 1.8t manual it is super easy to drive in just about all conditions. Being able to choose what gear you want to be in at a given time as well as getting some pretty fantastic fuel economy is a plus for me. I just got a chance to compare back to back Audi's A4 3.0 litre manual and auto. The auto is great and smooth but the reaction time "for me" is too slow if I want to get into a gear quickly. The manual is a totally different experience. Partly because it has one more extra gear that sure helps you feel more power transfering to the road at any given time.

The safety aspect I have played with in a parking lot is you can press the clutch in if you have loss some control in a turn which puts the car into a neutral state so the car can balance it's traction limit as best as it can with no engine forces transfering to the wheels. When you regain control of the car make sure though you let the clutch out nicely so you don't lose control once again.

Oh yeah with manuals you can do cool tricks too without too much of a pain! Albeit if you know your automatic you can do just about the same tricks as a stick.

I really like auto when I'm in the mood to talk on a mobile phone, right notes as I'm talking, while reading a map, drinking my water, and changing CDs at the same time which are in the back seat, waiting for the pedestrians to quickly cross the road so I can make a SAFE left turn...hehe

Oh yeah there's one thing with a manual that you should consider. If you can forecast when you may sprain your left ankle or lose any function of your left foot, make sure you have access to an auto.

Some people like the manual because NOT ALL can drive it!

I think it all depends on really what you want out of a car and what you want out of the driving experience. People come in all shapes and sizes and that is why auto manufacturers have been flexible on how a vehicle is operated. You can have fun with either! It's all about your attitude towards driving...as long as it's safe. Have fun!

Posted by: ringtone master

stick is far better than auto mind auto is good for being in traffic

Posted by: fredwards

SMG Tiptronic.

You can choose between auto (well computerized auto) and standard, plus it clutches for you electronicall in 0.008seconds

Posted by: chrix

Quote:

Originally posted by fredwards
SMG Tiptronic.

You can choose between auto (well computerized auto) and standard, plus it clutches for you electronicall in 0.008seconds

SMG is SMG
Tiptronic is Tiptronic

and SMG clutches "hydrallically"

Tiptronic is just an Auto transmission.

Posted by: Skylinepilot

I agree, it won't replace manual or automatic, it is just its own thing. It lacks the sporty feel, the ability to do downshift braking, transfer weight, double cluth, heel and toe, etc. Its like going out and buying a nice top of the line 10 speed mountain bike and it still has training wheels on it.

Posted by: NextelsOnly

Yeah same here, Skylinepilot. Although it's a lot of fun, I see SMG as a transmission for people who can't drive a manual well, but want the performance. I know this is not true, but it justs seems like the only reason someone would want one.

Posted by: rovert

I still love the SMG transmission. As long as it is at least the SMGII which the BMW M3 has in it. I was driving a new one of those for a bit and I love the way it sounds. I can drive manual ok and a manual is by far the best feeling of being connected to the vehicle.

What I do like about an SMG is the SOUND of a perfect shift everytime! That goes with lightning fast upshifts and perfectly rev matched downshifts no matter what RPM the next lower gear is. For racing I would prefer an SMG since my abilities right now could not keep a consistent "perfect" shift 100% of the time. If I am racing and I don't have a perfectly smooth shift when the vehicle is at it's traction limit, the car could potential lose traction. I guess that's why F1 uses the SMG tranny since it's fast and it shouldn't cause any rough shifts to cause a spin.

Well that's just my opinion on an SMG since I'm not a pro manual shifter YET...hehehe. Happy driving!

Posted by: punkrckdrummer

you crazy people with your beemers.. I've heard of those SMGs. Do you have the standard H patten on the SMG or is it just up and down to switch gears? and if you have the M3, have you tried the "cheat" to "launch off". seeing as how the m3 is the first car to accually have a "cheat"

Posted by: rovert

The gear shift knob on a BMW SMG is shown in the picture below:

Neutral is in the middle left position.
Reverse is Upper left.
Forward (auto) is middle right while upshifts pressing forward and downshifts pulling backwards will turn the Forward program into manual mode. This SMG also does not shift for you if you hit redline in manual mode so you must shift when you are in manual mode or else you just end up hitting the rev limiter. I never found out how to use launch control which is probably a good thing...haha. Launch control is the same as revving your RPMs up to around 3,000 and letting the clutch out for the fastest acceleration.

The button underneath the "SMG" logo gives you 6 programs of shifting (Sequential mode or Automated mode). Number 1 are nice easy slow shifts and Number 6 are hard fast shifts with that beautiful sounding bang as the gear is engaged. A gear indicator on the dash tells you what gear you are in. There is also an upshift and downshift pull-back paddles on the steering wheel. Not the steering column since a stationary paddle would be hard to get at when making a turn while shifting. The paddle play is very tiny so once you feel the click feedback through the paddle the car shifts immediately with no delay unlike a quasi-auto-manualmatic tranny. Fuel efficiency is the same as a manual vehicle and sometimes even better than a manual in the same conditions.

Hope that helps to understand how BMW's system works!

Posted by: bigjigga

Quote:

Originally posted by rovert
I still love the SMG transmission. As long as it is at least the SMGII which the BMW M3 has in it. I was driving a new one of those for a bit and I love the way it sounds. I can drive manual ok and a manual is by far the best feeling of being connected to the vehicle.

What I do like about an SMG is the SOUND of a perfect shift everytime! That goes with lightning fast upshifts and perfectly rev matched downshifts no matter what RPM the next lower gear is. For racing I would prefer an SMG since my abilities right now could not keep a consistent "perfect" shift 100% of the time. If I am racing and I don't have a perfectly smooth shift when the vehicle is at it's traction limit, the car could potential lose traction. I guess that's why F1 uses the SMG tranny since it's fast and it shouldn't cause any rough shifts to cause a spin.

Well that's just my opinion on an SMG since I'm not a pro manual shifter YET...hehehe. Happy driving!

out of curiousity the F1 tranny in say a 355F1 Blips the throttle for you once you downshift for effective rev matching does the smg tranny do this for you?

Posted by: TheOne

Ok folks..

A lot of you are so mis-informed its not even funny. Since i've lived with an M3 for about 1.5 years now AND learned the nuances of driving an SMG I'm going to set the record straight.

Lets start with these little nuggets from Fredwards

Quote:

SMG Tiptronic.

You can choose between auto (well computerized auto) and standard, plus it clutches for you electronicall in 0.008seconds

SMG is not tip tronic. It is a manual gearbox that is controlled by computer and actuated with high pressure hydraulics. Its sequential because the computer can only go through the gears one at a time, sequentially. It cannot change from say 6th to 4th directly, it has to go 6-5-4.

.008 seconds. Try .08. To shift in 8 thousandths of a second would be mechanically impossible I think. Maybe not, but expensive.

Then we have skyline pilot. Have you ever driven an SMG for a length of time?

Quote:

I agree, it won't replace manual or automatic, it is just its own thing. It lacks the sporty feel, the ability to do downshift braking, transfer weight, double cluth, heel and toe, etc. Its like going out and buying a nice top of the line 10 speed mountain bike and it still has training wheels on it.

It does everything you think it doesn't, and then some.

It does do heel toeing and double clutches as it downshifts and up shifts. It can do it on every shift if you like but it depends on how you hold the throttle. For instance, if you let up on the throttle and command a downshift, the shift is not very smooth. however, if you lean into the throttle and request a downshift the computer (since it is throttle by wire) will blip the throttle for you as it downshifts. I used to drive a 5spd mustang and I could heel toe as if it was second nature. SMG does this for me, perfectly every time.

Not only does it rev match, it does a PERFECT rev match. The computer will set the rpms via the throttle to the perfect range for the gear AND speed. Best I could do in my stang was make sure the engine was on the up as I downshifted. I certainly could not dial in say 3960rpms as I downshifted. SMG can.

Lacks what sporty feel? It gives you more control.

About the "cheat"

Quote:

you crazy people with your beemers.. I've heard of those SMGs. Do you have the standard H patten on the SMG or is it just up and down to switch gears? and if you have the M3, have you tried the "cheat" to "launch off". seeing as how the m3 is the first car to accually have a "cheat"

It isn't so much a cheat as it is a built in feature. In addition to launch control (the "cheat" you speak of") there's hill hold as well. Launch control gives you a PERFECT high powered launch at 1800 rpms. To do this, set the system into sequential mode and tap the button under the shift lever till you get to S6. Turn off DSC via the button on the consol. tip the gear selector forward, Mash the gas (its throttle by wire so the computer automatically sets the throttle to the correct rpms). Then, when you're ready to go, let go of the shift lever and hang on. You can also use the (-) paddle.

Posted by: Skylinepilot

Quote:

Originally posted by TheOne
Then we have skyline pilot. Have you ever driven an SMG for a length of time?

Quote:

I agree, it won't replace manual or automatic, it is just its own thing. It lacks the sporty feel, the ability to do downshift braking, transfer weight, double cluth, heel and toe, etc. Its like going out and buying a nice top of the line 10 speed mountain bike and it still has training wheels on it.

It does everything you think it doesn't, and then some.

It does do heel toeing and double clutches as it downshifts and up shifts. It can do it on blah blah

No, I haven't but thanks for asking me. I am so glad you asked me specifically and no one else

I actually wasn't talking about SMG, I was speaking of the tiptronic. It was actually more in response to an earlier post and the one before mine, I should have quoted the "Tiptronic is tiptronic." Sorry for the confusion.

I was actually going to write my thoughts on the SMG system but didn't feel inclined to do so. Its a different system by far from your usual MT, AT or TipT and there is a reason why so many racecars from F1 to WRC Rally that use them.

I was also thinking that it would be great if BMW made a stripped down BMW strictly interested in racing, like the Evo MR of BMW's. But BMW wouldn't want that on their resume now would they. You got pull out all the luxury stuff yourself if you want to make it a trailer queen track car.

Posted by: rovert

I couldn't have said it better myself.

The SMG makes a manual transmission perfectly balanced so the car will minimize loss of control on shift changes. Sloppy shifts in a normal manual would be disasterous if you have the car at its traction limit. Try letting a clutch out too quickly in the snow on a slight curve with a rear wheel drive and no electronic stability helpers. Not a good thing. You should try the new Audi TT's DSG transmission. It uses two clutches so that when you shift to 2nd, 3rd is already to engage with the 2nd clutch. Even faster and smooth shifts! I know it will take the fun out of the sound though

Posted by: TheOne

Quote:

Originally posted by Skylinepilot
It does everything you think it doesn't, and then some.

It does do heel toeing and double clutches as it downshifts and up shifts. It can do it on blah blah

No, I haven't but thanks for asking me. I am so glad you asked me specifically and no one else

[/quote]

No problems. I'm glad that you owned up to it. I totally agree with you that tiptronic cannot be compared to a sequential gearbox. I just get tired of hearing so many mis conceptions of the SMG system. Especially from automotive journalists who drive it for a day and say it sucks. You have to learn how to drive it as it is nothing like a MT or AT. There are little quirks, but these quirks all add up to a perfectly driven MT once mastered.

Posted by: Skylinepilot

Trust me, I envy you just because you have had the oppurtunity try it

To be able to drive it like you have takes you to a much higher level of envy.

Posted by: fredwards

Quote:

Originally posted by chrix
SMG is SMG
Tiptronic is Tiptronic

and SMG clutches "hydrallically"

Tiptronic is just an Auto transmission.

exactly, so now you see how ×××× kool they are

Posted by: eibowow3650

my boss has a 2004 BMW M3 with either Tiptronic or SMG, im not really sure.

But he said it shifts in 1/.08 (one eighth) of a second.

He told me if i could start it, he would let me drive it. but i couldnt start it

.. yea i felt dumb u have to push the start button and put it in a certain gear and all this crap.

He's really proud of his car, who wouldnt be? Its tyte as hell. so if anyone wants me to ask him some questions, im sure he'll be more than happy to answer them.

Posted by: fredwards

Quote:

Originally posted by eibowow3650
my boss has a 2004 BMW M3 with either Tiptronic or SMG, im not really sure.

But he said it shifts in 1/.08 (one eighth) of a second.

He told me if i could start it, he would let me drive it. but i couldnt start it .. yea i felt dumb u have to push the start button and put it in a certain gear and all this crap.

He's really proud of his car, who wouldnt be? Its tyte as hell. so if anyone wants me to ask him some questions, im sure he'll be more than happy to answer them.

my dad did the same to me. He had one for a few weeks from work and so he told me if i could start it i could also drive it but its not as simple as just putting in the key and turning

Posted by: eibowow3650

ya its insane, i guess it must be like some back up theft prevention, the theif breaks into the car but doesnt know how to start it

Posted by: eimajuno

I think that I would choose auto because that is all I have ever had. I do like to drive manual sometimes but I really don;t think that I would want one as a daily driver. Also I am moving to L.A. and a stick in L.A. traffic would not be fun IMO.

Posted by: NextelsOnly

Quote:

Originally posted by eimajuno
I think that I would choose auto because that is all I have ever had. I do like to drive manual sometimes but I really don;t think that I would want one as a daily driver. Also I am moving to L.A. and a stick in L.A. traffic would not be fun IMO.

Yeah, but what would be more fun to drive up the coast in???

That's why you need a warehouse in Burbank with 100+ cars like Jay Leno so you can have a few autos mixed in with the manuals!

Posted by: bigjigga

Quote:

pfft i do it every day no problem its actually more fun to rev at people and if your car can do it mini burn out are fun on the freeway you can make people laugh...