Google
 
Web www.howardforums.com
Pages: 1 2

64K SIMS and ENS Phones Q&A (Resulting from Cingular and ATTWS Merger)

(Click here to view the original thread with full colors/images)

Posted by: kilo

Quote:
Originally posted by Prost
I guess I can goto nearby cingular to get a 64K SIMS for my wife's V400, for my V600, I might need to buy another phone? Is 6230 ENS enable?
If you are determined to try this solution, I would make sure that the V400 is ENS capable (check your PM inbox) and if it is, get one 64K SIM and test it on that one phone first

Quote:
Originally posted by Raab Himself
Okay i called Cingular and told them that i wanted my phone to be set to Blue insead of Orange..this was on tuesday..and they said it should be working in about 48 hours...it is now hour 72 and still nothing has changed...im not complaing or anything i just want to know how long it actually takes?
From my very scientific survey of asking one tech about the 8 color swaps she's done, 4 of them failed; I've been told that after it's initiated, it goes through at midnight (you may have to power cycle the phone)

So either:
A: The color swap failed
B: Color swapping didn't change your situation at all


Posted by: Raab Himself

Quote:
Originally posted by kilo
From my very scientific survey of asking one tech about the 8 color swaps she's done, 4 of them failed; I've been told that after it's initiated, it goes through at midnight (you may have to power cycle the phone)

So either:
A: The color swap failed
B: Color swapping didn't change your situation at all


It must have failed because my dad has a v400 that i can manually selet Cingular Blue and he gets full reception while i get 0-2 bars on Orange

And if you were wondering i was talking to a lady at tech support


Posted by: Hi-Tek



hmmm my color swap went through instantly. the tech told me to power off my phone, and to turn it back on in about 10 minutes. Now it works like a charm.




Posted by: kilo

Quote:
Originally posted by kilo
for more information on unlocking, please email simunlock@cingular.com or check the howard forums forum for your provider


my bad, that email address was: simunlockcode@cingular.com

You will get this reply:

Good morning/afternoon:

The Cingular Wireless SIM Unlock Group has received your request for the unlock code on your handset. In order to process your request we require the additional information listed below:

Customer's name on account:
Account number:
Mobile number:
Phone make and model (i.e.: Motorola v60):
IMEI number (this can be retrieved from the phone by pressing *#06# on the keypad of the phone):
Part number (for Siemens phones only):
Reason for request:

Please note: SIM unlock codes are released to Cingular Wireless customers only. After becoming a Cingular customer you must have service for 90 days before the code is given. If this is not a Cingular phone then your current or previous service provider must provide the code. Also, Cingular will not release an unlock code for an inactivated phone or a closed account with an outstanding balance.

Thank you

Cingular Wireless SIM Unlock Group


Posted by: TGIF

Quote:
Originally posted by kilo
Unlocking only allows you to use other providers SIMS

You are unable to switch to other networks because the SIM card is set to not allow that.

If you unlocked your phone, you wouldn't risk messing anything up, aside from possibly breaking your phone when you first try to get it unlocked


Thank you for the info and the follow-up.

Just to confirm my understanding: unlocking a phone will not make accessible hidden menus for seeing/selecting network providers, etc.?

Thanks,

TGIF


Posted by: skytrack

I have what I believe is a non-ENS capable Nokia 6230. My IMEI begins with 3533. Of course when I bought the phone I was unaware that only certain IMEIs were ENS-capable phones and others weren't. Is there a way I can exchange mine for an ENS capable one? I've had service with Cingular for 3 months now. The reason I want ENS in the first place is because the Blue network in CA is better than Orange due to the 850 band. Cingular tech's have set my SIM's default to Blue but since i'm using a non-ENS 6230 it always defaults to Orange.

Will Cingular replace my non-ENS 6230 if I complain about the bad reception that cannot be solved without an ENS capable model?


Posted by: Raab Himself

this was posted in the cingular forum:

Quote:
Originally posted by hhubley
Over the next few months, Cingular will begin to "cherry pick" (their words) ATT Towers and merge them into the Cingular system. What this means is that specific ATT towers will be recoded from 310-380 to 310-410 to provide better overall coverage to Cingular Orange customers. Basically, current Blue customers will see their native network decrease in coverage while native Orange customers will see their coverage increase. This is presumably how Cingular will get more Blue customers to migrate to the Orange side.

Cingular hasn't been moving too fast on this because of their concern to maintain Blue business customers. Current Blue GSM business customers still have access to new phones and plans through the Blue side of the company. But since a good chunk of Blue business users are still on TDMA, Cingular wants to have a solid Orange GSM network to influence Blue business users to migrate to. Once a so;lid complete GSM network is consolidated, you'll see Cingular ramp up migration for EVERYONE to the 310-410 network.

Just my .02 worth.


now, if this is true, and i want my phone to prefer AT&T's towers, will i be able to change back to Cingular later on?


Posted by: kilo

Quote:
Originally posted by skytrack
Will Cingular replace my non-ENS


I can't imagine they would, especially for free, people buy phones with bad RF quality all the time and have reception problems, but if they keep them after the trial period we never offered discounted equipment as a solution for coverage problems

Quote:
Originally posted by Raab Himself
now, if this is true, and i want my phone to prefer AT&T's towers, will i be able to change back to Cingular later on?


I'm sure you would be able to, since everyone will eventually be moving to the Orange network I'm sure they will be able to move people back from Blue even if they've been "locked" to Blue

Question is, does Cingular do this on their own? will they call you up and ask permission? what if it's 4 years from now and there are NO blue towers? Will they just force you over then?


Posted by: PhillipD76

Do you know which IMEIs are ENS capable or specifically non-capable?

Thanks

Quote:
Originally posted by skytrack
I have what I believe is a non-ENS capable Nokia 6230. My IMEI begins with 3533. Of course when I bought the phone I was unaware that only certain IMEIs were ENS-capable phones and others weren't.



Posted by: skytrack

Quote:
Originally posted by PhillipD76
Do you know which IMEIs are ENS capable or specifically non-capable?

Thanks


Kilo said:
3533************ Non-ENS
3550************ ENS


Posted by: PhillipD76

I cant seem to find any store within 30 miles of me that has any 6230's with the right IMEI. They all have the wrong ones. Anyone know of a Cingular SKU that I can order direct, 6230 with ENS?


Posted by: Viewfly

Quote:
Originally posted by skytrack
Kilo said:
3533************ Non-ENS
3550************ ENS


I don't think this is correct.

I noticed on an unlocking web page that this IMEI prefix is the difference between tri band 6230b on 850/1900/1800 (3533xxx for USA market) and 6230 on 900/1800/1900 (3550xxx for non USA market).

There was a 100% correlation on this on over 50 phones that people posted.


Posted by: PhillipD76

So. I am gathering from this thread that....

I am on Cingular blue right now. Thinking of migrating to Cingular orange. Some of the places that I go to have better coverage on blue with the exception of my work.

The only reason I would need the 64k and ENS would be to ask CS to home me on blue instead if I felt I needed to be more in blue range, because it is NOT going to just choose which ever signal (between blue and orange) is greatest at the time.

Heh, I wish it would just choose which ever one was best all the time, unless I was on a call and they just stick to that MNC until I hung up.


Posted by: Viewfly

Quote:
Originally posted by PhillipD76
So. I am gathering from this thread that....

Heh, I wish it would just choose which ever one was best all the time, unless I was on a call and they just stick to that MNC until I hung up.


I don't know the answer to your question, but I think a defination of 'BEST' must be considered.

My 6230b with 64K SIM has improved coverage from my older phone. I know that I use both ATT and Cingular towers.

What does BEST mean? There is NO difference in voice quailty between 1 bar and 7 bars on my 6230bphone. I don't worry if I only have 3 bars...that is the point. Normaly no one knows the signal strength from their car FM radio, but it does vary as much as your phone. But to you the audio difference is insignificant or null.

With the mobile phone, if the signal goes competely away, it will switch to the other network. But I see no reason for the phone to switch between 3 bars or 7 bars. The phone is working fine in either. I know 'bars' is not a precise measure, but for this purpose, it is fine.

I wouldn't worry about this for too much. And make use of the 30day trial.


Posted by: PhillipD76

I should have chosen my words more carefully. I should have said, which ever tower has the strongest signal, regardless of being orange or blue. I wouldn't care which one I was on really as long as it was the strongest possible signal I could get from either one.

I know there are 30 days to switch back, but at this point I have no intention of switching back since I will be having my account switched into someone elses name so we can combine our accounts into a family plan.

I am not so worried about all of this, but since I have the time to research it I might as well get what I want if it is available. I'm not in a real hurry either.

Getting a 64K SIM around here with a 6230 would do me absolutely no good, since it seems there aren't ANY stores within 50 miles of me that have the ENS enabled version of that phone. I have called stores from Hartford to Boston and none have it.

I guess I may just wait to see what happens.

Quote:
Originally posted by Viewfly
I don't know the answer to your question, but I think a defination of 'BEST' must be considered.



Posted by: hf1khal

Quote:
Originally posted by Viewfly
I don't know the answer to your question, but I think a defination of 'BEST' must be considered.

My 6230b with 64K SIM has improved coverage from my older phone. I know that I use both ATT and Cingular towers.

What does BEST mean? There is NO difference in voice quailty between 1 bar and 7 bars on my 6230bphone. I don't worry if I only have 3 bars...that is the point. Normaly no one knows the signal strength from their car FM radio, but it does vary as much as your phone. But to you the audio difference is insignificant or null.

With the mobile phone, if the signal goes competely away, it will switch to the other network. But I see no reason for the phone to switch between 3 bars or 7 bars. The phone is working fine in either. I know 'bars' is not a precise measure, but for this purpose, it is fine.

I wouldn't worry about this for too much. And make use of the 30day trial.


Just a quick note (I think Kilo would agree with me). What ENS does is manage your network connection to avoid network congestion. So if you have it and it is favored to (lets say) Blue your phone will always prefer blue as long as it is recieving a signal. However, should that singal be congested the phone will be switched to the Oranfge untill such time the Blue is less congested which will camp back on blue. The phones and SIM are programed to search for the network every 6 minutes. So in the end you can end up using orange for a few minutes and then end up on Blue again. So for now don't count on being on the strongest of the two, but in due time when all the networks are merged into one mmc you will then get to camp on the stronger one.


Posted by: PhillipD76

I neglected to mention the load balancing, because in my area neither orange or blue towers are really congested a lot. But I hear you, it is good for some areas definately.

one day.

Quote:
Originally posted by hf1khal
Just a quick note (I think Kilo would agree with me). What ENS does is manage your network connection to avoid network congestion. So if you have it and it is favored to (lets say) Blue your phone will always prefer blue as long as it is recieving a signal. However, should that singal be congested the phone will be switched to the Oranfge untill such time the Blue is less congested which will camp back on blue. The phones and SIM are programed to search for the network every 6 minutes. So in the end you can end up using orange for a few minutes and then end up on Blue again. So for now don't count on being on the strongest of the two, but in due time when all the networks are merged into one mmc you will then get to camp on the stronger one.



Posted by: PhillipD76

It looks like I am not going to be able to get an ENS capable version of the phone over the phone either. There is no way to tell which of the phones they are shipping out and when they decide to send you to technical support to to chat about ENS with someone you get their IT support number for help with telegence etc.


Posted by: Viewfly

Quote:
Originally posted by hf1khal
Just a quick note (I think Kilo would agree with me). The phones and SIM are programed to search for the network every 6 minutes. So in the end you can end up using orange for a few minutes and then end up on Blue again.


I think Kilo said in his first post:

"So what does the combo of 64K SIM and ENS give me?
As a consumer you may not notice a difference, or even care to get new equipment. About the only improvement you would see might be in battery life because your phone stops scanning for a differnet network ever 6 minutes."

But the fact that everyone seems certain what ENS is, but noone can identify an ENS phone, not even Cingular, leads me to believe that it was an idea that Cing realized didn't help them, so it has gone by the wayside. The whole thing is pretty foggy and by the time it clear up, the middle or end of 2006 will come, and ENS will no longer be relevant.


Posted by: PhillipD76

I finally was able to speak with technical support and a technical support person spoke with a technician.. Does anyone at Cingular know about ENS? I tried to explain to them what it was that I was looking for.

They kept saying that all their phones right now are equally able to use the 64k SIM and that I should have no problem. I know I should not have too much of a problem per se, but oh well.


Posted by: Viewfly

A bit like chasing a ghost, I'd say.


Posted by: Justin5117

Can anyone confirm that the Mpx 220 is ENS or NON-ENS compaitable?


Posted by: Raab Himself

Quote:
Originally posted by JD6230b
Can anyone confirm that the Mpx 220 is ENS or NON-ENS compaitable?


it is, if you go back a page or two, kilo confirmed it
when i bought my MPx220, it said something like: Cingular ENS MPx220


Posted by: PhillipD76

I Just wish this was not so difficult. They have boxes of other phones in their closets all with ENS at the end, yet they have none of 6230 ENS flavor, and they don't even know what that means. Probably too hard to educate them, and can't guarantee that the employees would use the information in a useful way and not confuse customers.

Quote:
Originally posted by Viewfly
A bit like chasing a ghost, I'd say.



Posted by: Justin5117

But are all mpx's ENS? Or is like the 6230? Only some?


Posted by: kilo

Quote:
Originally posted by PhillipD76
Heh, I wish it would just choose which ever one was best all the time, unless I was on a call and they just stick to that MNC until I hung up.


You needn't worry about equipment, your ATTWS phone should allow you to do a manual search for whichever network you want to use now.

The phone doesn't automatically switch to the better network but it should switch to a better network if signal gets degraded enough

Quote:
Originally posted by hf1khal
Just a quick note (I think Kilo would agree with me). What ENS does is manage your network connection to avoid network congestion. So if you have it and it is favored to (lets say) Blue your phone will always prefer blue as long as it is recieving a signal. However, should that singal be congested the phone will be switched to the Oranfge untill such time the Blue is less congested which will camp back on blue. The phones and SIM are programed to search for the network every 6 minutes. So in the end you can end up using orange for a few minutes and then end up on Blue again. So for now don't count on being on the strongest of the two, but in due time when all the networks are merged into one mmc you will then get to camp on the stronger one.


what you say sir is not the way it was explained to me

When I was talking of "relieving congestion" I meant that they wanted the people "homed" on the different networks to make sure no one network ever because to overloaded.

As far as I know, if your phone were "homed" to Blue and then picks up on Orange, it would be doing this due to signal strength, not network congestion

Quote:
Originally posted by Viewfly
but noone can identify an ENS phone


I'm not sure if i've mentioned it in this post, but there is a list of which phones are ENS capable and which are not. I've only run into like 3 people who have ever heard of it though. And I did post up some "all xxx phones are ENS", "some xxx phones are ENS", "no xxx phones are ENS"

Quote:
Originally posted by JD6230b
Can anyone confirm that the Mpx 220 is ENS or NON-ENS compaitable?


All Moto MPX 220 are ENS capable


Posted by: Viewfly

Quote:
Originally posted by kilo



I'm not sure if i've mentioned it in this post, but there is a list of which phones are ENS capable and which are not. I've only run into like 3 people who have ever heard of it though. And I did post up some "all xxx phones are ENS", "some xxx phones are ENS", "no xxx phones are ENS"


What I meant is that, once it is out of the box (which may or may not say ENS on it), no one can seem to id a phone being ENS or not. I don' t beleive the 3533xxx IMEI is correct. See my other post above.


Posted by: Patrick G.

Well, I finally got confirmation from a very knowledgeable Level II tech that unless you have registered an IMEI on your account from an ENS-capable phone, the option to color-swap/load balance your SIM won't even be there, and it cannot manually be overridden.


Posted by: kilo

Quote:
Originally posted by Viewfly
I don' t beleive


Well I don't know what to tell you. I do wish though that we had some sort of "press *#06# and if it says ENS at the top of the screen it's ENS capable"

But again, a ENS capable phone and 64K SIM is not a "necessary requirement" for anyone to be able to use their voice or data phone on either cingular orange or blue networks. If the signal from one disappears then it will switch to the other if it is present


Posted by: kilo

Quote:
Originally posted by Patrick G.
Well, I finally got confirmation from a very knowledgeable Level II tech that unless you have registered an IMEI on your account from an ENS-capable phone, the option to color-swap/load balance your SIM won't even be there, and it cannot manually be overridden.
I can't remember all the backstory now, but wasn't one of your phones ENS capable and had a 64K SIM?


Posted by: Patrick G.

Quote:
Originally posted by kilo
I can't remember all the backstory now, but wasn't one of your phones ENS capable and had a 64K SIM?

No, I just told them I was using a V551. I'm actually using an unbranded V600. But, they are able to see that my SIM is unrecognized by the system. If it were an actual Cingular V551 SIM, it would be recognized, and would give the tech an option to do the load balancing/color swapping. I asked if there is any manual way to insert the option, and was told no.


Posted by: Patrick G.

I was surprised to get a call while at lunch today from a Cingular RF Engineer. He stated he was going to be coming to my town tomorrow to check the coverage around my house, and even asked if I could meet him there around noon so I would have first-hand knowledge of his findings. Wow.

By the way, in my previous post, please replace each instance of the word "SIM" with "IMEI". Sorry to confuse.


Posted by: Viewfly

Quote:
Originally posted by Patrick G.
I was surprised to get a call while at lunch today from a Cingular RF Engineer. He stated he was going to be coming to my town tomorrow to check the coverage around my house, and even asked if I could meet him there around noon so I would have first-hand knowledge of his findings. Wow.

By the way, in my previous post, please replace each instance of the word "SIM" with "IMEI". Sorry to confuse.


Well, please tell us what happened? Any useful information from him?


Posted by: Patrick G.

Quote:
Originally posted by Viewfly
Well, please tell us what happened? Any useful information from him?

This is the email he just sent me:

I did not show a coverage problem around the residence. I do however want your satisfaction that service is acceptable inside your home and therefore some solutions are being looked into. I will not be the contact for these solutions but you will be contacted by the company with some options that I hope you find satisfactory. I appreciate your business and it was a pleasure looking into this for you.

I just don't see how he can show the coverage as being fine, yet both of my phones get between zero and one bar of signal strength when attached to an orange tower.


Posted by: java007

Quote:
Originally posted by kilo
So are you on "ATTWS" GSM or did you "Migrate" to Cingular GSM?

You don't NEED a 64K SIM regardless, and you don't NEED a ENS phone either (regardless).

You shouldn't have any worry about "tower switching" either, the phone should do that automatically as signal decreases from one provider and increases on the other.

If it is a Cingular 64K SIM it will say "SmartChip" on it. And the long string of numbers will start with 89014


Glad I ran across this thread. The Cingular web site mentions the SmartChip under the discussion of roaming in Korea and Japan - this would require putting the 64K card into a native country phone (e.g., a rental).

If a customer is planning to travel to Korea, Japan, or another locale where this would be a feasible approach, how would they go about swapping a 32K SIM for a 64K SIM?

Thanks...


Posted by: kilo

Quote:
Originally posted by java007
how would they go about swapping a 32K SIM for a 64K SIM?


your 100% easiest way to get a 64K SIM is walk into a store, hand them $25, and ask for a new 64K SIM and tell them you don't care what they think

You might be able to get one for free/reduced cost by telling them why you need one, but unless I was holding the SIM card in my hot little hands I wouldn't want to tell you that you could get it for free. As far as I know there is no company policy regarding a reduced price on this new equipment for customers who already have equipment (or who aren't yet eligible to upgrade).


Posted by: STC_Trojan

Hi all... New poster, very non-tech. Used to be an AT&T user and live about 50 miles west of Chicago. My daughters broke my Moto phone, so I upgraded to Treo 650 and switched account to Cingular.

Reception on my old Moto with AT&T was great. Reception with my Treo on Cingular is awful. I believe the area I'm in has some Cingular towers, but far more AT&T.

Been reading and trying to understand the postings about Blue, Orange networks, and suspect that my phone is using Orange, where it would work much better if it was using Blue. I've called customer support and they've been useless.

I read about being able to switch the networks your phone prefers...at+cops or somehting like that, but have no idea how to do that on my phone.

Not excited about returning the phone, because I really like it. But if the signal continues to be as bad as it is, I'll be forced to.

Can anyone help? It would be greatly appreciated.


Posted by: donnandre

Does anybody know how I can access mms and sending photos email from a v551 motorola(cingular phone) and using my ATT chip? I cant access certain features bcuz I have an ATT chip in my cingular phone.


Posted by: hf1khal

Quote:
Originally posted by donnandre
Does anybody know how I can access mms and sending photos email from a v551 motorola(cingular phone) and using my ATT chip? I cant access certain features bcuz I have an ATT chip in my cingular phone.



Go to this link then select the option (do the GPRS first then the go back and do the MMS). When there you choose the 551 and it will sedn you an SMS. Please note the codes that they show on the screen as you will have to enter that code when you accept the SMS. Once you are done, then go to web sttings and select the mmode as the default. Good luck.

http://secure.mouse2mobile.com/clie...iguredevice.asp


Posted by: kilo

Quote:
Originally posted by STC_Trojan
Hi all... New poster, very non-tech. Used to be an AT&T user and live about 50 miles west of Chicago. My daughters broke my Moto phone, so I upgraded to Treo 650 and switched account to Cingular.


All Treo 650 are ENS compatible

Assuming you have a 64K (you most likely do) you should be able to be "color swapped" to blue by Cingular technical support


Posted by: clone206

Hello everybody. I just registered as a user because I found some interesting info about ENS that I'd like to share. I'm an att wireless customer and I use an x426. Despite what many have said, I have found this to be the best low-cost GSM phone for RF strength. Naturally I was bummed when I was told by 2 forum regulars on a different forum that the cingular version of this phone, the x427m is not ENS capable. I live in a fringe neigborhood where signal strenght dips in and out, so I need every advantage I can get. Well, since I currently own a samsung phone, I was able to call into their technical support line and ask about the x427m with regard to ENS. I just got off the phone with the rep and she told me the following:

Some x427m's are ENS capable, and some are not. To find one that is, look for the letters "sbcin" after the model number on the box. In other words, near the barcode on the box, the model # would appear somewhat as follows: "x427msbcin". The rep assured me that any handset baring this sequence of letters is ENS capable.

I have some info from cingular reps that I've spoken to as well. One gentlemen in the sales department who hadn't heard of ENS did a search on his computer and told me that he found info stating any new phone from cingular with a 64K SIM provides ENS (not sure I believe that one). I also spoke face-to-face with a rep at a corporate cingular store who had actually heard of ENS and assured me that the x427m was the ENS capable version of the x427.

At this point I believe that ENS is definately real and not vaporware. If it were vaporware this would be one of the most widespread hoaxes to propagate through the wireless industry ever. Think about it, I've heard from a cingular store rep, cingular sales rep, a samsung tech support rep and of course, kilo, a cingular rep, that the technology does indeed exist. Do you think they're all in on the hoax?

Anyway, maybe we can add the x427m to the list of "not all are" ENS capable phones. Also, if anybody else would like to contact handset manufacturers directly and post your findings about ENS, this may be a good way to build a more comprehensive list.


Posted by: clone206

Well, now this is strange. I went back to the very same cingular store today and asked a different CSR to show me the box of one of their x427m's. There were no letters on the box like what the samsung rep described, but that may be because the cingular store puts their own sticky bar code lable over the original. Not seeing the "sbcin" letters there, I opened up the box, took out the phone, and looked under where the battery sits. And there, right after where it said x427m, were the letters "(ENS)". I now have no doubts that this is an ENS phone. If anybody wants proof, I will take a pic of the lable when I get my phone.


Posted by: kilo

Quote:
Originally posted by clone206
Anyway, maybe we can add the x427m to the list of "not all are" ENS capable phones. Also, if anybody else would like to contact handset manufacturers directly and post your findings about ENS, this may be a good way to build a more comprehensive list.


Samsung X427 none are ENS capable
Samsung X427m some are ENS capable

Quote:
Originally posted by clone206
At this point I believe that ENS is definately real and not vaporware. If it were vaporware this would be one of the most widespread hoaxes to propagate through the wireless industry ever. Think about it, I've heard from a cingular store rep, cingular sales rep, a samsung tech support rep and of course, kilo, a cingular rep, that the technology does indeed exist. Do you think they're all in on the hoax?


There is a debate about whether ENS is real or not?

And for the record, it's not like I'm sitting in a room specially programming phones with a certain ENS range one way or another, I got this info from training. So if you wanna go with a conspiracy theory, it's not like I have first hand info that this actually works or not.


Posted by: clone206

Quote:
There is a debate about whether ENS is real or not?


Actually there was a certain amount of debate on forums as to whether or not ENS was real. Somebody was actually making a pretty good case for ENS being vaporware on another forum. http://forums.wirelessadvisor.com/showthread.php?t=6731

Most Cingular reps I've spoken to knew nothing about it. It's just strange that such an important feature has been so hard to learn anything about directly from Cingular.

Quote:
Samsung X427 none are ENS capable
Samsung X427m some are ENS capabl


Are you suggesting with your latest post that the x427m was already listed as "some are" on this thread? Cause I sure don't remember it.


Posted by: kilo

Quote:
Originally posted by clone206
Are you suggesting with your latest post that the x427m was already listed as "some are" on this thread? Cause I sure don't remember it.
I don't know if it was already listed or note, but since you brought up a phone model it was easier to look up and post instead of just wading through all 250 posts to see whether I posted it or not.


Posted by: clone206

Quote:
Originally posted by kilo
I don't know if it was already listed or note, but since you brought up a phone model it was easier to look up and post instead of just wading through all 250 posts to see whether I posted it or not.


Well, the x427m was not listed (a simple google search and a text find shows that). I just find it strange that I shared some info about how to find the ENS version of this phone and your response so far seems to be one of slight annoyance. I thought the info was helpful, but, hey maybe not. Worth a try. Keep in mind I'm new to the forum. Thanks for the PM with the IMEI ranges, though.


Posted by: kilo

Quote:
Originally posted by clone206
Well, the x427m was not listed (a simple google search and a text find shows that). I just find it strange that I shared some info about how to find the ENS version of this phone and your response so far seems to be one of slight annoyance. I thought the info was helpful, but, hey maybe not. Worth a try. Keep in mind I'm new to the forum. Thanks for the PM with the IMEI ranges, though.


clone206, i think we might have got off on the wrong foot. I posted up the info about whether that model was ENS or not because I try to do that whenever someone mentions a model and there is a question as to whether it has ENS or not.

As to your original post about how to tell if a phone is ENS or not, I don't know. I do wish there was a way to tell though. You might post in the main Cingular forum, someone there might know or have a better idea. I don' thappen to know offhand aside from the IMEI ranges and if it says "ENS" on the box.

But hey, welcome to the forum.


Posted by: dan1431

I was working with a co-worker in Miami today and he has a V551 and I have my V620.

Now my understanding regarding ENS is that it determines which tower has the least amount of users and registers with that tower.

Standing next to each other his phone had 1-2 bars and could barely keep a call, my phone had full bars and the calls were excellent. When I checked which tower he was logged onto, it was a blue tower and I was using an orange tower. ENS in this case seems to worsen reception rather than improve. This would lead me to agree with Kilo and others who have said that ENS is more for the company than the consumers.

Dan


Posted by: kilo

Quote:
Originally posted by dan1431
Now my understanding regarding ENS is that it determines which tower has the least amount of users and registers with that tower.


Hold up now, ENS is something that Cingular will use to help load balance the networks, but not dynamically like "i switch from blue to orange within minutes of each other" but more like "Cingular is going to switch 5000 orange users in the DFW area for the next 6 months to prefer blue until more capacity can be added to the orange network" (that was just an example)

Quote:
Originally posted by dan1431
Standing next to each other his phone had 1-2 bars and could barely keep a call, my phone had full bars and the calls were excellent. When I checked which tower he was logged onto, it was a blue tower and I was using an orange tower. ENS in this case seems to worsen reception rather than improve. This would lead me to agree with Kilo and others who have said that ENS is more for the company than the consumers.


Most likely your friend happened to have been switched by Cingular to prefer the blue network.

Now imagine if you were closer to a blue tower and there was a weak orange signal. Suddenly he has the better signal and you are losing out.

ENS is more for the company than the consumers. But hey, if you and your friend spend 99% of your time within range of the orange tower you guys were on but that blue tower was always having problems, your friend could call in and get "color-swapped" to orange. Which kind of makes it an advantage to the consumer.

The real advantage for everyone is when we don't have to think about this anymore and we are all just 310-410 and there is no "orange" or "blue" just "Cingular". Then we are all using the towers of two previous companies that have been reconfigured to give us the best configuration possible.


Posted by: kilo

Again, anyone just stumbling on this thread, to recap:

1. (From Post 1): You don't need to worry about getting an ENS phone. If you NEED one you will not be sold a non-ENS phone.

2. (From Post 1): You don't need to worry about getting a 64K SIM. If you NEED one you will not be sold a non-64K SIM.

3. (From Post ~200): ENS Phones and 64K SIMS don't allow you to do anything that previous Cingular or previous ATTWS phones could have done. (IE: Phone Calls and Data are processed the exact same way)

4. (From Post ~150): What is the one thing that you could do with a ENS phone and 64K SIM that someone without could not do? "Color-Swap" What is that? It's for an instance where you are having low reception because your phone prefers orange but there is a blue tower that works better for you (or vice-versa), you can switch from orange to blue (or vice-versa), and your phone will always prefer blue until they turn off blue or you call in and want to be switched back to orange.

5. (From Post ~80): I'm having reception problems and I just recently got a phone from Cingular, what should I do. Call into customer service: 866-CINGULA and tell them of your reception woes. Don't bothering ENS of 64K SIMS or orange or blue to customer service (you will likely confuse them). At least wait until you are talking to technical support and you might ask them if switching networks would help. Not to put to much of a damper on your spirits, but often if you are actually having problems making/receiving calls, a color-swap wouldn't even matter since once the signal strenght gets low enough the phone/sim is programmed to switch to another network.

6. (From Post ~10): A list of which phones are ENS is not publicly available, if you want to know about a particular model, you can ask me (don't PM, just reply) or call Cingular Tech Support, or consult the manufacturer (I've never tried that last one). As of yet there is no way to determine if the phone you already have is ENS or not. If you PM me the IMEI I can reply back with a yes or no answer (PM's may take a week to be answered, if at all)


Posted by: kilo

As I was mentioning about "which phones are ENS" I though I should relay this:

I have a BlackBerry 7290 (none of which are ENS capable when sold), but I was reading a product advisory that came out this week that mentioned that a new operating system was available for an issue with calls cutting out but also said "this will also add ENS capability to this phone". Since this is a company phone I can't just call up and ask if i can be color swapped. But perhaps firmware updates will make it possible for non-ENS to be ENS


Posted by: dipdewdog

Quote:
Originally posted by kilo

5. (From Post ~80): I'm having reception problems and I just recently got a phone from Cingular, what should I do. Call into customer service: 866-CINGULA and tell them of your reception woes. Don't bothering ENS of 64K SIMS or orange or blue to customer service (you will likely confuse them). At least wait until you are talking to technical support and you might ask them if switching networks would help. Not to put to much of a damper on your spirits, but often if you are actually having problems making/receiving calls, a color-swap wouldn't even matter since once the signal strenght gets low enough the phone/sim is programmed to switch to another network.


Hey kilo, I just migrated over to Cingular and I'm in this boat. I called up and they said they were going to "change some settings in my phone." But they wouldn't send the update out until midnight and even then it might take 48 hours for it to completely take effect. Does this sound like a color swap to you?


Posted by: kilo

Quote:
Originally posted by dipdewdog
Hey kilo, I just migrated over to Cingular and I'm in this boat. I called up and they said they were going to "change some settings in my phone." But they wouldn't send the update out until midnight and even then it might take 48 hours for it to completely take effect. Does this sound like a color swap to you?


yes that does, i hadn't heard the 48 hour part, but the midnight part sounds right; if after 48 hours you are still having problems with signal (and you "know" that the blue signal is better in that area) call back in regarding that same ticket and state that you are still experiencing the issue


Posted by: chanmanx2k

Should we be getting the full potential of the merger? Are they 100 percent integrated yet?


Posted by: kilo

Quote:
Originally posted by chanmanx2k
Should we be getting the full potential of the merger? Are they 100 percent integrated yet?


not yet, I forget if the projected 100 % integration date was mid 2005 or mid 2006, someone on the main board might know


Posted by: kilo

I asked some vendor representatives if there was a way to tell if a phone had ENS software on it or not by just going through the menus or something simple the customer could do. All of them stated no, but did pass on this info:

Samsung: Only way to tell is by IMEI range, but after december 2005 some models can have a firmware upgrade and be ENS capable
LG: Only way to tell is by IMEI range
Motorola: Every model sold to Cingular since November is ENS capable
Sony Ericsson: Certain models are ENS, certain aren't
Nokia: May 2005 forward all phones sold to Cingular should be ENS capable

I would take this all with a grain of salt. Because when is the last time a sales rep had a 100% up to date and accurate accounting of inventory.


Posted by: kilo

I mentioned in here:
http://www.howardforums.com/showthr...threadid=604509

That all Cingular can now just have "one single Smartchip" that will be the 310-410 MNC.

Again: You don't need one.

What this means is that if you had to get a new SIM card for whatever reason, and you were out of market, the SIM cards they are selling in Texas are the same as the SIM cards they are selling in California, so you could walk into a store, purchase a new SIM card, call up customer service for your market, and have them switch it for you.

This also helps Cingular in it's quest for a single MNC.

But remember: You don't need one.


Posted by: zerilos

What digit prefix will work for Texas? (89014, 89011, 89310, etc)


Posted by: kilo

i believe 89014 will work for all cingular customers, texas or elsewhere, before all these shenanigans, texas was 89014 as well


Posted by: kilo

all the palm one treo 650's sold by cingular are ENS enabled


Posted by: hf1khal

Quote:
Originally Posted by kilo
all the palm one treo 650's sold by cingular are ENS enabled


Kilo, Any word on when the ombined SIM (Orange & Blue) will be available? I am talking about the SIM that will can/be used on either network.


Posted by: kilo

Quote:
Originally Posted by hf1khal
Kilo, Any word on when the ombined SIM (Orange & Blue) will be available? I am talking about the SIM that will can/be used on either network.
I thought they were already selling it. Its supposed to be out anyway.

Over the next two years we'll see the networks integrated to the brown network.


Posted by: hf1khal

Quote:
Originally Posted by kilo
I thought they were already selling it. Its supposed to be out anyway.

Over the next two years we'll see the networks integrated to the brown network.


Do you have any idea what the SIM protocol is? The one I have seen, the store manager was told that it is for the Orange purposes as it will allow the activation of west coast cutomers in the east and vice versa. He can't seem to be able to get any one from Cingular to give him any details. The one he has (I beleve) is by GemPlus. If you can tell us which one to look for, it would be greatly appreciated.


Posted by: kilo

Quote:
Originally Posted by kilo
how to tell if a phone is ENS or not, I don't know. I do wish there was a way to tell though. You might post in the main Cingular forum, someone there might know or have a better idea. I don' thappen to know offhand aside from the IMEI ranges and if it says "ENS" on the box.


by the by, there happened to be a "vendor show and tell" meeting about a month back, I asked the vendor reps from: nokia, motorola, lg, siemens, sony ericsson; all the same question:

"Is there a way for me, or a customer, to tell if a phone is ENS capable or not by going through the menu options or pressing a code on the keypad"

all said "no" but then followed up with a comment like "all phones we sell now are ENS capable" or "all phones after june will be ENS capable" I wish I still had my notes about who said which, but i seemed to have deleted them at some point along the way

just thought i'd pass that along


Posted by: powertoburn

Quote:
Originally Posted by kilo
all the palm one treo 650's sold by cingular are ENS enabled


Are the (BLUE) Treo 650 ENS?

Also listen to KILO when he says you don't need the new universal sim 890141 is the starting range.

In my region WEST - this sim will force you onto BLUE network and even if tech support tries to load balance to ORANGE it won't work due to the sim not having 310-170 as a preferred network and the home network is set to 310-410 on the sim. AT&T 310-380 is the 4th preferred carrier.

I had to track down two 64K sim for new activation I got last week with the 8931017 - these 64K sims are provisioned with 310-170 as home carrier. In my region of Southern CA. The BLUE network is terrible. The now T-Mobile previous (ORANGE) is vastly supperior even though it is 1900Mhz only.

Tech support was also able to load balance one of my numbers to Orange.

Also lack of ENS on Nokia 6230b the phone still works quite well.

ENS enable phone seem to have caused me more grief then not.


Posted by: kilo

Quote:
Originally Posted by powertoburn
Are the (BLUE) Treo 650 ENS?


I don't happen to have access to info about blue phones, you bring up a good point though, I should have said "sold by Cingular Orange". I could not say. Of course as long as you had the phone unlocked you should be able to put any SIM in, you may (and that's a big may) notice a slight decrease in battery life (not while talking, while it's on standby).

Also I would make sure that you could put in Orange GPRS settings so that you could use the internet capabilities of the phone.


Posted by: Kyle9875

I have to admit..its all a bit confusing. I was wondering though, what about phones that Cingulae doesn't carry (Motorola V635)...any chance that they are ENS enabled?


Posted by: muadib

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle9875
I have to admit..its all a bit confusing. I was wondering though, what about phones that Cingulae doesn't carry (Motorola V635)...any chance that they are ENS enabled?
No!!! Why would they bother when ENS is just a Cingular feature?


Posted by: troyboy30

Is it just me or did anyone else notice all of the new entries in the 'service dial' list? I now have 6 entries with the 64k sim when I only had one entry for customer care before. They added dir assistance, check minutes, check balance, pay bill and voice connect.


Posted by: kilo

Quote:
Originally Posted by troyboy30
Is it just me or did anyone else notice all of the new entries in the 'service dial' list? I now have 6 entries with the 64k sim when I only had one entry for customer care before. They added dir assistance, check minutes, check balance, pay bill and voice connect.

mine had that as well, i guess they are trying to increase awareness to their self service options


Posted by: bobolito

Nice try to increase awareness. If I hadn't read your post, I would never know it was there. It's buried all the way deep in the menus.


Posted by: Mango808

Quote:
Originally Posted by troyboy30
Is it just me or did anyone else notice all of the new entries in the 'service dial' list? I now have 6 entries with the 64k sim when I only had one entry for customer care before. They added dir assistance, check minutes, check balance, pay bill and voice connect.

This "Service Dial" thing must be only for Motorola phones as I can't seem to find it in my Nokia, SonyEricsson or Samsung phones. I found it in only my Motorola V551 and V60ig.


Posted by: kilo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mango808
This "Service Dial" thing must be only for Motorola phones as I can't seem to find it in my Nokia, SonyEricsson or Samsung phones. I found it in only my Motorola V551 and V60ig.

It was in my BlackBerry 7290 under "SIM phone book"


Posted by: Justin5117

Is the Audiovox SMT5600 ENS Capable?


Posted by: kilo

Quote:
Originally Posted by CingularOrange
Is the Audiovox SMT5600 ENS Capable?


wtf? according to the info I have, none of the Audiovox SMT5600 are ENS capable

Well, it's not the end of the world, you "may" experience slightly less stand-by time, but so far no one has complained about this that I've seen on the forum.


Posted by: JeffreyCentex

Someone posted on the cingular support forums that the Cingular firmware phone was, but not the AT&T one (which makes sense as the Audiovox was released prior to the merger for AT&T, but only released in the last month for Cingular)...


Posted by: vandan

Okay, I'll admit to not reading this entire post but I from what I gather ENS is a phone feature not a 64k SIM feature, correct?

I ask, because I want to know if there is some advantage to getting a phone such as a Razr from Cingular as opposed to My World Phone.

Would the Cingular version if ENS equipped get better reception?

Thank you for your time and expertise!


Posted by: kilo

Quote:
Originally Posted by vandan
Okay, I'll admit to not reading this entire post but I from what I gather ENS is a phone feature not a 64k SIM feature, correct?

I ask, because I want to know if there is some advantage to getting a phone such as a Razr from Cingular as opposed to My World Phone.

Would the Cingular version if ENS equipped get better reception?

Thank you for your time and expertise!


To answer vandan: ENS won't get you better reception. And to date no one has come forward to say "My battery life is terrible now". So feel free to buy a phone from wherever. Just to be safe though, I'm going to make a post in the main Cingular forum and try to get some feedback on this.

sorry, i thought I had answered this already because I got a PM from another guy who asked the almost exact same question; I think this thread will have to die and have bobo post up a new "summary" thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by name-removed
Hi there, i decided to PM you instead of startin a whole new thread.
I read nearly ALL of the old posts you have here from Nov 04 about the ENS stuff and SIMS but I still dont understand somethings.
I have an unlocked ATT 3620 with the current Smart Chip 64K SIM it it. (I joined Cing. on may 5th 2005)
What are the disadvantages to having this non ENS phone (3620) in use verses the advantages of using the phone they gave me free, the ENS Mot V180?
Thnx for your reply if you arent to busy to answer me. Its ok if not, Im sure it will work ok as it does now -- even MMS and Media Net are OK on the 3620 after I programmed it in.


My reply to him: """The company says that you may have a decrease in your "standby" battery time (the time when the phone is on but you aren't on a phone call)

However, to date, no one has reported this as a problem

Your other disadvantage (unrelated to ENS) would be using a 1900 mhz only phone. If you happen into an area where it is 850/1900 mixed or a 850 mhz only area, your phone may not work at all. Apparently you aren't having that problem where you are but you might take the mot 180 if you go on any road trips to a place you hadn't been before"""

And then another PM just today from someone with 0 posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by name-removed-for-this-guy-too
I know there is a thread on this, but it is very detailed and I'm not that bright! And it looks like you are a total expert. I am a Cingular Orange customer, I have an old SIM card (not sure how much memeory) but it's from the old PacBell days. I just bought an unlocked V635 and I realize that it probably doesn't have ENS. Does it matter? Do I need a new SIM? Should I consider getting a 64K SIM? Will the 64K improve anything? Any advice would be appreciated.


And then I replied with this: """dude, seriously, I realize you are a new user, but in the thread you talked about the first 8 words are:

Executive Summary: You don't need a 64K SIM

at the beginning of the thread, I did mention that there were certain advantages to the 64K SIM and ENS for certain people in certain situations. But I can tell you now, with 100% certainty, especially since you are in California and have an unlocked non-ENS phone:

You don't need a 64K SIM. If someone tries to give you one, run from the room screaming. Well maybe not that bad, but you don't want one."""

Here's that "feedback" post I spoke of:
http://www.howardforums.com/showthr...579#post5299579


Posted by: abraxis

Well, I've been a victim of Cingular Orange since its formation.

For the longest time, I had a 32k SIM and I've been using it with a SE T637 for the past year or so.

After the merger and when they finally turned on the towers, I would occasionally get the strong ATT signal over the weak Cingular signal in my house. My phone would default to the weak Cingular signal, even if there was one bar.

If I wanted to make a call, I had to wait for my phone to scan to find the ATT signal. Once the bars went up, I'd make my call. And even then, the bars would drop the moment I hit "Call".

I upgraded my SIM to the new 64K card and it's a world of difference. My phone is faster to lock on to the stronger ATT signal and it stays put. It defaults to the strongest signal!!

Reception is greatly increased and the promise of the merger (better reception) has been realized, at least here in SF's Richmond District.

My experience: you need both an ENS phone and a new 64k SIM Card to maximize benefits from this merger.

My request: A list of ENS phones out there in the marketplace? Is ENS standard in all GSM phones or ones just made for Cingular?


Posted by: kilo

Quote:
Originally Posted by abraxis
>>>I upgraded my SIM to the new 64K card and it's a world of difference. My phone is faster to lock on to the stronger ATT signal and it stays put. It defaults to the strongest signal!!

Reception is greatly increased and the promise of the merger (better reception) has been realized, at least here in SF's Richmond District.

My experience: you need both an ENS phone and a new 64k SIM Card to maximize benefits from this merger.

My request: A list of ENS phones out there in the marketplace? Is ENS standard in all GSM phones or ones just made for Cingular?<<<


Let me ask you a question: Do you ever find your phone holding onto a weaker ATTWS signal before switching to a Cingular signal?

Technically you can call up 866-Cingula and a customer service representative can tell you which phones are ENS or not, or if your particular phone is ENS by reading off the IMEI list.

Or at least you COULD do that if Cingular made ANY effort at all to tell the reps where to find that information, or even make it searchable, but they have not (yet).

I would imagine you would only find ENS in the phones that you could buy from a Cingular store or website. But I don't know that for sure. I once presented myself, as a Cingular employee, to some vendors who Cingular buys phones from, and they told me things like "all phones sold after such and such date will be ENS capable". Though I don't know if they meant "all the ones we sell Cingular".


Posted by: dan1431

While walking to my car after lunch yesterday I noticed a Cingular truck parked in the lot with two guys getting out of it.

I walked over to the men and asked them a few questions RE: Cingular Technology and service in my area. They were both Cingular RF engineers and very happy to have a customer who understood a little about GSM technology and RF Engineering.

1) Load Balancing is not a Cingular Specific Technology it is used by all GSM providers to ensure that their sites are not overloaded. It was explained for example that in Europe load balancing is employed to load all voice calls to regular GSM towers while data is being balanced to UMTS towers to ensure that UMTS towers are not over-loaded by regular voice traffic(which can be handeled by tradition GSM sites) and can handle all the data traffic until such a time that all towers are UMTS capable. Any phone be it Cingular branded/Former AT&T Wireless Branded with a 32k sim or 64k sim can be load balanced within its own network. For example, a Former AT&T Wireless phone has been and still will be load balanced within the 310-380 network to ensure that 310-380 towers are not overloaded, especially in areas like NYC and other densely populated areas where there are many sites in small area where service will not diminished if the phone is placed on a different sites. They also pointed out that in areas where there are fewer towers and greater space between towers phones will rarely be load balanced because of the possible degradation of service.

2) ENS, a Cingular Specific Name(the engineer were not extremely clear about this) for load balancing between two networks has been and will in the future be used by other GSM providers. They may not use the name ENS but the idea to load balance between 2 difference networks is NOT a Cingular specific technology. There are three things required for a phone to be able to be load balanced between multiple networks. 1, a phone which is ENS enabled, many phones are ENS capable (as other GSM providers have used this technology) but not all phones are ENS enabled. One of the engineers explained that all newer phones that are Cingular branded are ENS enabled but many phones that are not Cingular branded are capable of employing ENS if they were enabled to do so. He said that currently there is no way to OTA phones to enable ENS as it requires new software from the manufacturer. He went on to say that certain Motorola phones can be programmed with software available to the general public which could enable ENS if they knew where to look and how to enable it. He said that Cingular would not support nor assist with changing of the software in Motorola phones and really wants customers to purchase phones from Cingular which come with ENS enabled, as most customers would not be able to make the needed changes even if Cingular tried to assist them. 2, an application programmed into the SIM chip which tells the phone that other MNCs can also be the “home” MNC. It does not have to be a 64K sim chip but, Cingular decided to use the 64K sim as it has a larger memory capacity so with the software users would still be able to program the 250 numbers and receive more room for SMS messages. 3, a profile loaded into the user’s account which sets the preferred network to 310-410/150/170/380/260. This profile only applies when the phone is asked to search for a new network or after it is turned on and it is searching for a network for the first time.

According to the engineers load balancing between the two networks will occur from time to time but more often than not your phone will find and register with its preferred network as defined in the user profile.

The engineers went onto say that ENS would be more useful to users in the NYC area where there is no native 310-410 coverage. As many here know the phone would perform a search and find other networks and without ENS would register with them and then search every so often for its home network thus, draining battery and shortening battery life. ENS would allow the phone to believe for example 310-380 is its home network and stop searching thus preserving battery life.

I have tried to summarize the conversation to the best of my ability; if you have any questions please feel free to ask them. If I have left anything out by accident I apologize in advance and will try and fill in the gaps as I find them.

Dan


Posted by: ucsbwalker

ok, so ive slogged through 80% of this thread and still have a question. I have an unranded/unlocked razr and a 64k cingular orange sim. My phone pick up both the 310-380 and the 310-170 signals near my local area(san francisco). The phone displays that it is constantly roaming and therefore I guess searching for "home" network. Is there a way to stop this and get my phone to accept its not roaming? Ive tried both networks manually choosing them...no luck in getting it off roaming.


Posted by: kilo

Quote:
Originally Posted by ucsbwalker
ok, so ive slogged through 80% of this thread and still have a question. I have an unranded/unlocked razr and a 64k cingular orange sim. My phone pick up both the 310-380 and the 310-170 signals near my local area(san francisco). The phone displays that it is constantly roaming and therefore I guess searching for "home" network. Is there a way to stop this and get my phone to accept its not roaming? Ive tried both networks manually choosing them...no luck in getting it off roaming.


not sure, i'm sure you wouldn't get charged for roaming, but not sure how to remove the roaming indicator from the Razr. My only guess is the Unbranding might have something to do with that.


Posted by: vikenb

Quote:
Originally Posted by kilo
not sure, i'm sure you wouldn't get charged for roaming, but not sure how to remove the roaming indicator from the Razr. My only guess is the Unbranding might have something to do with that.

Does unlocking a branded phone make it unbranded?


Posted by: Justin5117

Quote:
Originally Posted by vikenb
Does unlocking a branded phone make it unbranded?
No, it just means there is no subsidy lock by the provider. Unbranded means no Cingular Logo's wallpapers, games etc on the phone.


Posted by: vikenb

Quote:
Originally Posted by CingularOrange
No, it just means there is no subsidy lock by the provider. Unbranded means no Cingular Logo's wallpapers, games etc on the phone.

Thank you!


Posted by: motohello

Quote:
Originally Posted by ucsbwalker
ok, so ive slogged through 80% of this thread and still have a question. I have an unranded/unlocked razr and a 64k cingular orange sim. My phone pick up both the 310-380 and the 310-170 signals near my local area(san francisco). The phone displays that it is constantly roaming and therefore I guess searching for "home" network. Is there a way to stop this and get my phone to accept its not roaming? Ive tried both networks manually choosing them...no luck in getting it off roaming.



Search these pages: it will tell you how to remove the roaming icon from the razr. I did it for a friend (I bought him a Cingular blue Razr that he uses on TMobile) http://xlr8.us/hofo/map.txt
http://www.xlr8.us/hofo/


Posted by: dan1431

Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry7230/4.0.0 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1)

While looking through a GSM enginnering textbook, I came across a paragraph RE: load balancing.

It basically said that load and handover control can be set on a network to move certain handsets and not others depending on their QOS(the color profile) profiles(which I think is ENS).

What do others think? Next time I speak with the CNG RF engineer, I will ask him.


Posted by: txrose68

Greetings

I have a question and I need an "honest" answer...
My husband's old Motorola StarTac died and I just bought him a brand new Cingular Motorola v180 on ebay. I called Cingular first to make sure they would activate a phone that was not purchased directly from them and they said that they would as long as it was a Cingular compatible phone. They also told me that there would not be an activation charge because my husband already has an account with them (which I thought was nice!).

Since the phone did not come with a SIM Card, I asked if SIM Cards were regional and if I could purchase one of those on ebay to use in the phone and he said that SIM cards have to be purchased locally. Yet when I emailed a couple of the top ebay sellers of the SIM cards they said that the 64K SIM cards are nationwide and do NOT have to be purchased locally.

So, my question is... who do I believe? Does Cingular just want me to pay 3X the price and buy it from them or am I getting smoke blown up my skirt by the ebay sellers... these guys had 99% feedback and if they were lying to people I would think it would show in their feedback. I'm also under the impression that the 64K SIM smartchip will work in "any" phone, it that true or is that something else I'm not clear on? SOMEBODY, please help!


Posted by: futureMD

The new 64K SIM cards will work nationwide. You don't have to buy them locally. As long as the SIM card has never been used before, it'll work if you buy it on eBay.


Posted by: txrose68

Thanks SOOO much futureMD!!! Now maybe my head will stop throbbing...
I suspected that it might be cingular that was blowing the smoke up my skirt. I just heard back from yet another ebay Platinum powerseller that said that the New Cingular 64K SIM Smartchip will work "anywhere on any Cingular gsm phone". I had trouble believing that they were the ones not being honest with me because they have sold oodles of these things to people ALL OVER the United States and if they didn't work they would have negative feedback posted all over the place... not ratings of 99.9% positive feedback.
I think I'll go ahead and snag one on ebay. From what I understand, they run about $25 or $30 at the Cingular store and you can NOT buy them from Cingular online... which is kind of a dumb move on their part! If I had to go back to the store my husband originally opened his cingular account, and got his phone and phone number at, it would be a 70 mile drive to go pick up a SIM card for the new phone.
Alrighty then, it's settled... I'll give the cingular nationwide SIM a whirl! I can handle delays if it comes to that (with 3 small children I better be able to LOL!). But I'll keep my fingers crossed that everything goes smoothly. I think I can just call and activate the new V180 and sim with Cingular on my landline.
Thanks again and God Bless!!!


Posted by: futureMD

I'm just curious, but why are you buying a SIM card? If your husband was no TDMA (I'm assuming since it was a StarTac that died on him.), then when you switch to a GSM plan, you'll get a SIM card for free. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure that the SIM card is included when you activate a GSM plan.


Posted by: txrose68

The old StarTac did not have a SIM and the rates we've been paying for it were a lot higher than the newer phone rates. When it died, I didn't want bound to another contract, fees, yada, yada and I didn't want to pay a bunch of money to buy the phone from them... it was going to be over $200 to switch plans and buy the phone without a contract. So, my husband has been without a phone for few months, while I've been keeping up the rediculous bill, to avoid having to sign another contract, until I figured out what to do about a new phone.
I finally decided I would check on ebay for a new replacement phone and if I couldn't find something at a reasonable price, I would have the account cancelled. I'm a stay at home Mom, so I "have to" bargain shop... and I'll have to say that ebay is about the best thing created since sliced bread! I bought him a new cingular branded motorola v180 (brand new in the box), but it did not come with a SIM Card. And I didn't blow our budget or break the bank
From what I understand, you don't get the SIM unless you buy the phone from a cingular store. I have not had his calling plan changed yet, I'm going to do that when I activate the new phone. I don't think I will get a free SIM card since I'm not signing a new contract and I didn't buy the phone from them. I'm just changing plans, from old plan to new plan. Does that makes sense?
Markus, the gentleman I talked to at Cingluar when I called to make sure they would activate a phone that wasn't purchased directly from them, said that I would have to "purchase" a SIM card at a local Cingular store. He also said that the cards were "regional". That's why I was confused when I was trying to find out if they are or are not regional. He told me regional when I called on Monday, but several "reputable" ebay power sellers have been telling me that the 64K SIM smartchip works anywhere in the US on any gsm phone.
I'm SURE it would have been easier to buy a phone and SIM from them, but it would have cost me twice as much. We do not "need" something that checks email or takes pictures, we just need a functional phone that doesn't cost a lot ton of money. I only carry a Motorola Tracfone and it's mainly for emergencies. I guess I'm just old fashioned and think that there are better ways to spend our limited amount of money LOL.


Posted by: Ronin1

Quote:
Originally Posted by futureMD
Your AT&T branded v600 will be locked to an AT&T SIM card. You can unlock it, however. This site will do it for $20, and you don't need software or a data cable. It will unlock if via keypresses. You'll have to unlock it to put in a Cingular SIM card. You won't need a 64K SIM card. Everything that a 64K SIM card has that you need will be downloaded via an OTA update sometime on or after Nov. 15.


I recently had an ATTWS v551 unlocked. The attempt at a remote unlock was unsuccessful and I had to send it in for the vendor to hook it up to some equipment which was able to successfully unlock it. Apparently ATTWS/Cing Blue are changing some things in the locked phones to try to prevent people from unlocking them.

I do wish that the FCC and FTC would get involved in this business of refusing to unlock phones. Even the EPA should be involved because of all of the hazardous waste (phones and batteries that wind up in the land fill) that is generated by refusing to unlock the handsets...not to mention the millions of dollars of wasted equipment.

Cing could also easily flash the firmware to make everything match up on the phones. They are just committed to making you buy phones because, as one CS Rep rather crudely put it, Cing wouldn't make any money (from the affected people) that way.


Posted by: kilo

sorry that i've neglected this thread, all that stuff that happens outside the computer was distracting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin1
They are just committed to making you buy phones because, as one CS Rep rather crudely put it, Cing wouldn't make any money (from the affected people) that way.
In the business of dollars and cents, if we don't make any dollars, it doesn't make any sense. (Though I would be in favor of Cingular not selling ANY phones and just SIM cards and service, but I've lost that debate with the CEO).

@txrose68
I've been out of the game for awhile, so if a CSR tells you "that's not correct" I might just have to defer to them.
The new plans that have M2M for free require a 12 month contract extension (even though you aren't buying a new phone), but if you don't really know that many Cingular customers, you can opt out of it and skip the contract. Or buy M2M for $9.99 a month.

"Back in the day" all the SIM cards Cingular sold were regional (3 (4?) regions in the whole US) and the 64K SIMS do have some "slight" issues with older GSM phones so that may be why you were told some of the info you had heard, but it should not have any problems at all with the Motorola V180

I kinda shy away from buying a SIM card from eBay, just because if you bought it at a store, and you had whatever problem, no matter how small, you could immediately switch it back out for a new SIM, but it's hard to argue with 99.9% feedback, I'm sure they are accomodating.


Posted by: Ronin1

Quote:
Originally Posted by kilo
sorry that i've neglected this thread, all that stuff that happens outside the computer was distracting

In the business of dollars and cents, if we don't make any dollars, it doesn't make any sense. (Though I would be in favor of Cingular not selling ANY phones and just SIM cards and service, but I've lost that debate with the CEO).
<snip>


I guess I put it too politely. Cing appears to be in the business of screwing the customers.

Cheers


Posted by: MrH42

I appologize if this isn't a stupid question, but I've read up on this situation for quite awhile, and have heard confounding responses. If someone would be kind enough to give me a straight forward and truthful answer, without flaming me, I'd greatly appreciate it.

Here's the deal. I currently have a Cingular branded, Motorola V3 Razr (Black Edition ), that I purchased about 2 or 3 weeks ago, when I renewed my contract for another two years. They didn't offer me a 64k SIM card, saying there wouldn't be a difference. From what I read though, the 64k SIM card would balance the load of two towers better, but would often hurt my reception, and battery life (by transfering me to a tower further away, but has less of a load at the time being). I told the rep what I heard, and he said he's still using a 32k SIM card with no problems, and if I had problems to come in, and he may be able to get me a new 64K SIM card.

Flash forward a week, and my brother (on the same family plan) upgraded his phone, which came with a blank 64K SIM card. He popped in his 32K, thought nothing of it. I'm wondering, is there any advantage for me to take that into the store, and get my account switched to the blank 64K Sim card?

What differences will I notice? Or should I not even use the blank 64K SIM card at my home, and insist they give me a new one at the store, and let my brother take his new 64K SIM card to the store and have them put his account on that one? Basically, I just need to know what differences I'll see. I'm sure my phone is ENS capable due to me just getting it a few weeks ago.

Thanks in advance for any help offered.

-Mr. H


Posted by: hf1khal

It all depends on where you live. I have heard that some who use the 64K got lower signal than others who were using the 32K one. It seems that it is causing some to conect to a tower that is further away from the location and some are going to Ebay and buying the 32K sim, activating it and then reporting a better service with much less fluctuations. How di the 2 porform side by side?


Posted by: kilo

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrH42
32k vs 64k: What differences will I notice?

Going back to post 1: "You don't need it". I would recommend that you stay with what you have until given a compelling reason to change.
If one day your service just goes downhill, or you have having reception problems, then phone it in to customer service and let them know of your reception woes and that you have a black RAZR and a 32K SIM.
They will likely pull up a map of towers, and make a recommendation from there.

There are possibly some instances where a 32K sim or a 64K sim would work better in a certain area, but they are related to whether or not you are picking up Orange or Blue towers.

For the time being, until all 4 networks of Cingular are consolidated into one "network ID" (again this is all in post 1), your phone is setup to either prefer former ATTWS towers or the Orange towers. The problem is that the signal has to get VERY low before it will switch to the other tower.

Which is why if you are having problems, I would let customer service check out your area, and make the call, they can account better for your paticular situation and conditions.


Posted by: troyboy30

I called in and got level 2 to change me to blue. Funny thing was while changing me, he discovered my IMEI # was showing me as owning a non ens LG that I had for a week before I traded it on on the razr. Full bars for me now! Seems voice quality on blue is not as good though, so I may call back and go back to orange.


Posted by: Jay2TheRescue

I've been playing with more advanced functions on my phone since I got the advanced menus unhidden late last week. I am a Cingular Orange GSM customer w/ a Motorola V551 and a 32k sim. When I manually connected to the Cingular Blue network today I noticed improved signal @ work. To keep this I applied the cell sticker to keep the phone connected to that tower and I have great signal inside, even w/ the steel roof and the EMF going on @ work.

My question is this: Why doesn't my ENS capable V551 automatically jump to the blue network while at work for the better coverage? Isn't that the point of ENS to make both networks operate as one? I know a secondary function of ENS is load management, but you would think that they wouldn't mind putting me on the blue when it has better coverage? The phone hands off from blue to orange, but it doesn't seem to go from orange to blue?
__________________


Posted by: kilo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay2TheRescue
My question is this: Why doesn't my ENS capable V551 automatically jump to the blue network while at work for the better coverage? Isn't that the point of ENS to make both networks operate as one?


You'll need the 64K SIM for the phone to run the ENS apps.
But don't go out and buy one (see post 1), besides it sounds like you've already gotten a solution lined up (feel free to start a post in the Motorola forum about how you were able to unhide the advanced menus).

An ENS phone wouldn't automatically jump to a different network for better coverage immediately. I had hoped (but was dissapointed) that they would switch with a lower threashhold than the phones we were all using before the merger.

The point of ENS is to allow the new Cingular to turn down the old networks without stranding the customer with an unworking phone.


Posted by: Jay2TheRescue

Quote:
Originally Posted by kilo
(feel free to start a post in the Motorola forum about how you were able to unhide the advanced menus).


Actually after a week of seem editing I found a custom flex at www.motomodders.com that did almost everything I was trying to seem edit. It removed all visible Cingular branding, removed all pre-loaded images, Media Mall is gone! it also enabled many hidden menus and features. I was only able to partialy expose the features through seem edits, the flex had it all worked out, and in the 5 minutes it took to flex all the changes were done.

After all that crap was removed there is about 8 megs of memory free in the phone instead of the Cingular stock 5 megs. More room for pics & ringtones!


Posted by: Jay2TheRescue

I was thinking today, and this may explain why this strange thing happens. My parents live in a rural area, but they do have Cingular GSM service. My phone doesn't seem to find that tower until I can actually see it, then it holds onto the tower and I can go for a few miles after that. I'm guessing now that maybe the tower is on the blue network. Does the phone wait until it can find absolutely no trace of its home network before it jumps to another network? I've noticed that it will constantly jump from blue to orange (hence I use the cell sticker when at work to stay on blue) but if I put it on orange it pretty much stays put.


Posted by: TxTwin

[QUOTE=kilo]<SNIP>
"Back in the day" all the SIM cards Cingular sold were regional (3 (4?) regions in the whole US) and the 64K SIMS do have some "slight" issues with older GSM phones so that may be why you were told some of the info you had heard, but it should not have any problems at all with the Motorola V180
<SNIP>QUOTE]

Kilo,
Maybe you can help me. I have read 21 pages on this thread, and 2 pages on another....I realize my phone is not ENS enabled, but I have been forced into a SIM change and have a question about the different 64K SIMs.

I had a 64K SIM in my new 6340i in FEB05 when I traded in my TDMA phone. This was an Orange/Green SIM (I assume regional). Then, in May05, I started having problems with my phone. They "solved" my problems by turning off my GAIT -- not acceptable as I then had no service at work or home (except out the front door). I went through many, many trials to "correct my phone", and one of them was a new 64K SIM (blue wave - I assume national?).

I continued to have problems, until someone resolved most of the GAIT issues, voice mail issues, etc. Unfortunately, ever since the SIM change, I am stuck on BLUE. At first, it was only periodic on the TDMA side, but now, I cannot even force it to Orange. Someone just showed me how to tell if on BLUE GSM, and yep, blue there too.

So, with BLUE GSM, I drop 1/2 - 1/3 of my calls on GSM, and on TDMA, I have less signal. I want my ORANGE back, but they say I can't be color swapped on GAIT phone. I have not seen ORANGE to my knowledge in weeks. With TDMA, I drop less calls, so I have to reverse bar at home...but then I don't get Orange * services. Why, as a legacy Orange customer, am I forced to BLUE? I went with Cingular after trying ATTWS almost 4 years ago, as Cingular had better coverage than ATTWS at my home, and I want to be ORANGE again.

Thanks!


Posted by: Jay2TheRescue

Quote:
Originally Posted by kilo
An ENS phone wouldn't automatically jump to a different network for better coverage immediately. I had hoped (but was dissapointed) that they would switch with a lower threashhold than the phones we were all using before the merger.



I was just thinking - Is there a known seem edit to change the threshold of network switching? It must be there somewhere.


Posted by: kilo

If you find out, let everyone know.


Posted by: jakeryan90

Hey,
New to the forum and to the ability to manually switch Net IDs.
I just bought a brand new Motorola E680i...linux-based PDA Phone. Love the phone and the ability to manually switch ID's. When set to Auto it locates 310-410, overriding all other networks. Problem is, I get on average 2/5 bars inside my apartment on 310-410. When I set the ID scanner to manual and switch to 310-380, I get 5/5 bars. People, however, tell me that they keep getting "busy signals" or "all circuits busy" messages. Would this have anything to do with the Net ID and pending switch? My sim card is was bought in March of 2004 if that helps. Just wondering if the "all circuits busy" message people get is from being on 310-380 or just me being paranoid?
Any help in the matter is appreciated.
.j


Posted by: Mango808

Quote:
Originally Posted by jakeryan90
Hey,
When I set the ID scanner to manual and switch to 310-380, I get 5/5 bars. People, however, tell me that they keep getting "busy signals" or "all circuits busy" messages. Would this have anything to do with the Net ID and pending switch? My sim card is was bought in March of 2004 if that helps. Just wondering if the "all circuits busy" message people get is from being on 310-380 or just me being paranoid?
Any help in the matter is appreciated.
.j
Could be the over-crowding of the 310-380 network as Cingular transitions over from the 310-170 network. Usually the "all circuits busy" usually happens on the networks at night when everyone wants to use their "Night minutes." Cingular use to have them in the beginning in California when they were expanding their network when they formed from Pacific Bell Wireless and they got a lot more people signing up. It didn't help when the Joint Venture to allow T-Mobile to use the same network in California/Nevada brought more people as well.

I'd say it's going to be another rough time for Cingular to build out the "half-baked" AT&T Wireless network to sustain all of its customers.


Posted by: jms27

Now, this is my exprience for my company of 32, with cingular in the atlanta market, i switched to cingular in 12/04, cingular gave me v551s with 32k simcards, well we activated the phones, after two days, i read on the howard forums, about 64k sim card and ens, now i like to be on top on technology, so after two days of service, i switched to 64k sim cards, well there came all my problems, see when i put the 64ksim card in my nokia 3650, it was k, no problem, service was consistent, even while travelling, now as soon as i switched the sim card to v551 it would drop calls, would show me 5 bars, then all of a sudden switch to 1 or 2 bars. I called cingular they said it was the phone, so they switched out the phone, i tried it again, same thing, when i was in ny, the same thing was happenning, i checked cingular to see if they where doing some network integration in ny market and atl, the answer was no. Well i got fed up, and bought a 89014 32k sim cards on ebay and all my problems, with my phones have been fixed. my two cents is this, 64k sim cards and ens, helps cingular, not the customer, if you want solid service, and actually use cingulars great network, get a 32k sim card, it'll help a lot, at least it did for me! by the way the whole company was having problems with this, i switched all the v551phones back to 32ksim and everything is k now.


Posted by: gfunkdave

As they say, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jms27
Now, this is my exprience for my company of 32, with cingular in the atlanta market, i switched to cingular in 12/04, cingular gave me v551s with 32k simcards, well we activated the phones, after two days, i read on the howard forums, about 64k sim card and ens, now i like to be on top on technology, so after two days of service, i switched to 64k sim cards, well there came all my problems, see when i put the 64ksim card in my nokia 3650, it was k, no problem, service was consistent, even while travelling, now as soon as i switched the sim card to v551 it would drop calls, would show me 5 bars, then all of a sudden switch to 1 or 2 bars. I called cingular they said it was the phone, so they switched out the phone, i tried it again, same thing, when i was in ny, the same thing was happenning, i checked cingular to see if they where doing some network integration in ny market and atl, the answer was no. Well i got fed up, and bought a 89014 32k sim cards on ebay and all my problems, with my phones have been fixed. my two cents is this, 64k sim cards and ens, helps cingular, not the customer, if you want solid service, and actually use cingulars great network, get a 32k sim card, it'll help a lot, at least it did for me! by the way the whole company was having problems with this, i switched all the v551phones back to 32ksim and everything is k now.



Posted by: kilo

Quote:
Originally Posted by jakeryan90
I get 5/5 bars. People, however, tell me that they keep getting "busy signals" or "all circuits busy" messages. Would this have anything to do with the Net ID and pending switch? My sim card is was bought in March of 2004 if that helps. Just wondering if the "all circuits busy" message people get is from being on 310-380 or just me being paranoid?
Any help in the matter is appreciated.
.j

It sounds like you've figured it out. It appears that the 310-380 network might be overloaded in that area.

If you want to try and fix it, I would suggest calling into CS and tell them "my phone normally uses orange without any problem, but I notice THAT WHEN MY PHONE SWITCHES TO the blue network, people calling me get "all circuits busy" and busy signals, I think there's a problem with your blue network.

****
Quote:
Originally Posted by gfunkdave
As they say, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

and as I said in the first post, you don't need it


Posted by: DJFriar

Just a question:

Does any of this matter now??? Its been a year and a half since the last post, is most of this change over done or ???? I just ordered a BlackBerry 8800, so I'm assujing its ENS and 64k, but are the towers merged yet?


Posted by: jervin123

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJFriar
Just a question:

Does any of this matter now??? Its been a year and a half since the last post, is most of this change over done or ???? I just ordered a BlackBerry 8800, so I'm assujing its ENS and 64k, but are the towers merged yet?

In nov. there was an article talking about that it was done but im sure there are some areas that may never get integrated for a long while or will just die off with the next generation.


Posted by: Jay2TheRescue

Quote:
Originally Posted by DJFriar
Just a question:

Does any of this matter now??? Its been a year and a half since the last post, is most of this change over done or ???? I just ordered a BlackBerry 8800, so I'm assujing its ENS and 64k, but are the towers merged yet?

In areas where there was and AT&T and a Cingular network they have been merged. The only exception is California where the Cingular network was sold to T-Mobile and Cingular is now using the old AT&T network. For all practical terms though it really doesn't matter anymore.




vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.
vB Easy Archive Final ©2000 - 2008 - Created by Stefan "Xenon" Kaeser