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car feels mushy with these on (pics)

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Posted by: c^2





Got my winters on yesterday (Toyo Snowprox S950). Not only are they noisier, they also make the steering feel a lot more imprecise and "mushy". Lateral grip on dry pavement has also decreased compared to the (crappy) stock all-seasons.

What's the big deal with winter tires? They weren't cheap either at $220 apiece. I'm still left wondering if I really needed them.



Posted by: B0000rt

Wow, $220.

Insane, you should've went for the el cheapos..

I agree, my Michelin Arctic Alpins feel really mushy compared to my allseasons..

You should hear my tires at about 40-50km/h in the rain! High pitched squealing noise because of the siphons or whatever they're called..

Though it seems that my winters cause the mis-alighnment of my car to be greatly amplified!.. Better get that done soon heh



Posted by: c^2

I just checked the forecast and the entire week next week is sunny. Should've kept my all-seasons on for longer. I wanted to test them in the snow anyway. That mushy feeling is really getting to me. I wonder if I'll ever get used to it.

btw I went with these over the cheaper ones because 1.) I was hoping they'd be less "mushy" 2.) they had great reviews and 3.) not many winter tires come in 205/50/17 (stock size of my 3)

no steelies b/c I have a set of new rims coming for spring



Posted by: B0000rt

Quote:
Originally posted by c^2
I just checked the forecast and the entire week next week is sunny. Should've kept my all-seasons on for longer. I wanted to test them in the snow anyway. That mushy feeling is really getting to me. I wonder if I'll ever get used to it.

btw I went with these over the cheaper ones because 1.) I was hoping they'd be less "mushy" 2.) they had great reviews and 3.) not many winter tires come in 205/50/17 (stock size of my 3)

no steelies b/c I have a set of new rims coming for spring


Heh, you'll get so used to them that when you put your el cheapo allseaons on, you'll be like "holy shiz, these tires return the wheel to center soo dangin fast!"

I put my winters on about 2 weeks ago or so, so don't fret.. it's their 3rd season I believe, plenty of treads left..

Oh, I guess I can't really compare my 'mushyness' to yours because my winters are 195 65/14 or something like that, while my allseaons are 205 55/16s..



Posted by: c^2

195/65/14? that's a pretty thick tire and small rim...must be really really mushy



Posted by: poonsmjj

Quote:
Originally posted by c^2
I just checked the forecast and the entire week next week is sunny. Should've kept my all-seasons on for longer. I wanted to test them in the snow anyway. That mushy feeling is really getting to me. I wonder if I'll ever get used to it.

btw I went with these over the cheaper ones because 1.) I was hoping they'd be less "mushy" 2.) they had great reviews and 3.) not many winter tires come in 205/50/17 (stock size of my 3)

no steelies b/c I have a set of new rims coming for spring


Hey, new rims?? why new rims? What's wrong with your current ones? MM... about the noise.. yeah snow tires are noiser than normal all seasons... but i couldn't really tell the difference when driving in the snow. But if there's no snow... they're quite noisy ~ ehh oh well, you're set for winter



Posted by: c^2

one set for winter, one set for spring/summer/fall



Posted by: poonsmjj

lol ~ dude, you're pouring into your bimmer fund! noooooo



Posted by: nx2k

the noise should be normal, but as for imprecise steering, i'd advise you to check your tire pressure, it's highly likely that when you install new tires, the two front tire's pressure would be off from each other slightly which would cause imprecise steering



Posted by: buhdussy

If Your tire pressure is normal, then the imprecise steering is due to the softer rubber compound that is used in snow tires.



Posted by: WoNGsTeR

Quote:
Originally posted by c^2
I just checked the forecast and the entire week next week is sunny. Should've kept my all-seasons on for longer. I wanted to test them in the snow anyway. That mushy feeling is really getting to me. I wonder if I'll ever get used to it.

btw I went with these over the cheaper ones because 1.) I was hoping they'd be less "mushy" 2.) they had great reviews and 3.) not many winter tires come in 205/50/17 (stock size of my 3)

no steelies b/c I have a set of new rims coming for spring


why didnt you get steelies anyways?... cause for the price you paid for the big tires... you could've gotten toyo g-02s for 125 a piece on 16 inch metal rims which would've been 50 bucks... so it would've been 175 each tire.. and you still would've saved a heck alot more money... and you wouldnt waste your rims.. i have the g-02 and although they arent great compared to my all seasons... but they arent that noisy... and only feels a little mushy..



Posted by: c^2

I think the Toyo Garits will be even noisier and mushier with their walnut shell particles embedded into the tread right?



Posted by: c^2

btw I checked the tire pressure...it was 36psi...I increased it to 38 all round and it felt slightly less mushy

previosly I was running 40psi on the stock all seasons



Posted by: JimmyC

$220 for a tire is quite a lot honestly... Even if you have decided to use stock wheels since you are planning to get new rims anyway, 17 tires do cost significantly more than, say 14 inch tires.

But still, I would have settled down with the entry level G02-plus from Toyo, or other comparable brands (X-Ice, Ice Guard, etc..). Now you got the "High performance winter tires", which I don't quite understand your reason for the purchase, are you driving a "High performance" car? Or you plan to go wild during winter a la "World Rally in snow" style?

Your tires are overkill for your needs, but if you manage the budget, it's your choice and good for you.

What you are experiencing is quite normal, the noise is much more louder (but not unbearable), and you need to get used to the handling. As long as you got it installed professionally (right pressure, aligned, balanced), you will be fine.

Now I do agree with what Wongster said, smaller steelies with entry level winter tires. Even though it's kinda late for this but you would have benefit:
1) Saved a few hundreds $$$
2) Keep your stock alloys in top shape, even if you plan to get new rims next Spring, you can sell your stock alloys easier.

Most importantly,
3) 205/50/17 (your stock size) winter tires aren't the best choice because you might want to consider "thinner" tires for winter. You want to cut through the snow with narrow tires rather than slide on the slippery surface with wider tires. That's why many people downsize their rims for winter because you have more choices when it comes to choosing a thinner tire at 14/15 inch. A 15 inch steelie with 185/65/R15 specs would suit your needs entirely. Not mentioning reason #1) above.

If you are still "left wondering if you really needed them"... Well think about it.



Edit: JESUS! It's the first time you posted pics of your car with brake dust and dirt on your wheels! D@mn... time for some NXT wax lol... just kidding.



Posted by: B0000rt

Quote:
Originally posted by c^2
btw I checked the tire pressure...it was 36psi...I increased it to 38 all round and it felt slightly less mushy

previosly I was running 40psi on the stock all seasons


Aren't they supposed to be around 28-32?

hmm

i guess different cars/tires different pressures?



Posted by: Gatorade

Winter tires are for ice and snow, and will drive like crap in dry weather

But once it starts snowing you'll be glad you have them because All-Seasons are crappy in snow.



Posted by: WoNGsTeR

Quote:
Originally posted by Gatorade
Winter tires are for ice and snow, and will drive like crap in dry weather

But once it starts snowing you'll be glad you have them because All-Seasons are crappy in snow.


i cant wait for winter!!!!.. it was kinda snowing past weekend.. then it stop... man.. winter come!!. i want to try the combo of winter tires and awd!!!



Posted by: c^2

Quote:
Originally posted by B0000rt
Aren't they supposed to be around 28-32?

hmm

i guess different cars/tires different pressures?


my stock all season tires were rated for 32-45psi

they came from the factory with about 35psi, but they felt better at 40psi...more precise steering feel

lower profile tires tend to be designed for higher pressures



Posted by: c^2

Quote:
Originally posted by JimmyC
$220 for a tire is quite a lot honestly... Even if you have decided to use stock wheels since you are planning to get new rims anyway, 17 tires do cost significantly more than, say 14 inch tires.

But still, I would have settled down with the entry level G02-plus from Toyo, or other comparable brands (X-Ice, Ice Guard, etc..). Now you got the "High performance winter tires", which I don't quite understand your reason for the purchase, are you driving a "High performance" car? Or you plan to go wild during winter a la "World Rally in snow" style?

Your tires are overkill for your needs, but if you manage the budget, it's your choice and good for you.

What you are experiencing is quite normal, the noise is much more louder (but not unbearable), and you need to get used to the handling. As long as you got it installed professionally (right pressure, aligned, balanced), you will be fine.

Now I do agree with what Wongster said, smaller steelies with entry level winter tires. Even though it's kinda late for this but you would have benefit:
1) Saved a few hundreds $$$
2) Keep your stock alloys in top shape, even if you plan to get new rims next Spring, you can sell your stock alloys easier.

Most importantly,
3) 205/50/17 (your stock size) winter tires aren't the best choice because you might want to consider "thinner" tires for winter. You want to cut through the snow with narrow tires rather than slide on the slippery surface with wider tires. That's why many people downsize their rims for winter because you have more choices when it comes to choosing a thinner tire at 14/15 inch. A 15 inch steelie with 185/65/R15 specs would suit your needs entirely. Not mentioning reason #1) above.

If you are still "left wondering if you really needed them"... Well think about it.



Edit: JESUS! It's the first time you posted pics of your car with brake dust and dirt on your wheels! D@mn... time for some NXT wax lol... just kidding.


As I have said many times before, the smallest wheel size that will clear my brakes is 16"...14" or 15" is out of question. 4 Bridgestone Blizzak LM22 (my first choice tire, but they weren't in stock for 17") on 16" steelies came to about $50 less that what I payed for the Toyos - not a huge difference imo. I have no plans to sell the stock alloys - they will be used as my winter wheels.

wrt to cheaper tires, I was looking into Kumho KW17s for about $160-170/tire but they were, again, out of stock. Not many choices for 17" snow tires.

Yes...I know I know the car is pretty dirty. I've been pretty busy lately and haven't had the time to detail it. I'll even admit to taking it to a touchless.

I got a free can of WheelWax with my tires btw. Maybe I'll try it when I get around to detailing the car.



Posted by: JimmyC

Mazda 3 sedan and Mazda 3 sport wagon use different brake calipers/rotors?

Or is it Mazda 3 GT/Sport use different brake calipers/rotors as Mazda 3 Gx/Gs?

I would be surprised, I thought they used the same brake setup for all Mazda 3's.



Posted by: B0000rt

Quote:
Originally posted by JimmyC
Mazda 3 sedan and Mazda 3 sport wagon use different brake calipers/rotors?

Or is it Mazda 3 GT/Sport use different brake calipers/rotors as Mazda 3 Gx/Gs?

I would be surprised, I thought they used the same brake setup for all Mazda 3's.


Yeah I would assume so too..

195/65R15 all-season tires (GX, GS) on the Non-sport base model..



Posted by: c^2

GT Sedans and all Sports get bigger rotors.

GS and GX sedans have smaller brakes.



Posted by: mau108

got the hydroedges installed on my car, and whoa they are awesome

Soo solid, no shaking at 140+ clicks, its grip in rain is incredible (i drive like it dint rain, when its pooring outside lol)

gotta post some pics, they were pretty cheap got it for 130 installed, balanced at costco and came filled with nitrogen...



Posted by: Kremithefrog

Quote:
Originally posted by B0000rt
Aren't they supposed to be around 28-32?

hmm

i guess different cars/tires different pressures?

low pros=higher tire pressure.



Posted by: Zaku_4

lol im still debating whether or not i should seriously get them now. lol i see myself screwed in the snow or i see myself screwed driving aroundin the snow with no money =D. my friend got some kuhmo 16' winter tires with steelies for 700. hmmmm



Posted by: c^2

the kumhos are cheap and good but they're pretty much sold out everywhere



Posted by: [Corporal Dan]

Dude, winter means driving slow, carefully...

el cheapo tires should do the job on a front driver if you dont take corners going 130



Posted by: paf

Quote:
Originally posted by WoNGsTeR
i cant wait for winter!!!!.. it was kinda snowing past weekend.. then it stop... man.. winter come!!. i want to try the combo of winter tires and awd!!!


what kind of car do u drive?



Posted by: WoNGsTeR

Quote:
Originally posted by paf
what kind of car do u drive?


98 eagle talon tsi.





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