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Originally posted by sixyrs when do the fones come out? i'd like to see the UMTS/HSDPA modeled fones. |
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Originally posted by samab As I stated many times in the past, the average speed for HSDPA (400-700 kbps) is only slightly faster than Verizon's EV-DO average speed (300-500 kbps). The 14 mbps speed claim for HSDPA is just pure hype. When Verizon updates their network to the newer revision of ev-do, then there will be speed parity on both sides. |
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Originally posted by bobolito ...so what? Then there will be yet ANOTHER revision of HSDPA that will provide even higher speeds!
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Originally posted by samab As I stated many times in the past, the average speed for HSDPA (400-700 kbps) is only slightly faster than Verizon's EV-DO average speed (300-500 kbps). The 14 mbps speed claim for HSDPA is just pure hype. When Verizon updates their network to the newer revision of ev-do, then there will be speed parity on both sides. |
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Originally posted by samab When Verizon updates their network to the newer revision of ev-do, then there will be speed parity on both sides. |
Japan has already been working on 4G for about 2 years now, reaching speeds up to 300 MB/s ( and about 135 MB/s when moving at 30 kilometers per second , and being about 800m - 1km away from the 4G basestation ). Their goal is 1GB/s stationary. Yes : 1 GB per second ! |
Seems like you are a little upset Perhaps, but the full EVDO deployment schedule (for VZW) goes WELL into 2006/07 unless the schedule has been moved up recently. ...so what? Then there will be yet ANOTHER revision of HSDPA that will provide even higher speeds! If you are referring to the reverse link, then UMTS also has a " newer version ", called EUDCH ( Enhanced Uplink Data CHannel ), |
| could someone explain how this works |
| ... it expects to offer 3G services in most major markets by the end of 2006. |
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Originally posted by samab I am not upset at anything. Verizon announced that "most of the major cities" will be ev-do by the end of 2005 ---- notice that Verizon NEVER said that they will be national wide by the end of 2005. Cingular (top of the post) announced that HSDPA will be launched in "most major market" by the end of 2006 --- notice that Cingular as well NEVER said that they will be national wide by the end of 2006. Notice that there is already a 12 month difference between the two carrier's announced hype. My previous statements still stand --- it's about execution --- and Verizon has been better in execution. If a 14 mbps HSDPA version gives you 400-700 kbps average speed, then you have to wait for the 30 mbps version to match ev-dv speed or 2x ev-do speed. One more thing, bobolito, my comments were meant to put all these numbers in more realistic lights --- otherwise you will again have to post something like: "I realize UMTS (or in this case HSDPA) speeds are currently shameful" in 2 year's time. http://www.howardforums.com/showthr...ght=%2Bshameful I am not talking about uplink speed. Verizon is using an older version of ev-do with 2.4 mbps max downlink. The newer ev-do version is 3.1 mbps max downlink. |
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Originally posted by nskgti23 CIngular's date is 2006 for nationwide coverage as per the article. It will be in major cities by the end of 2k5. Also, Verizon doesn't have the spectrum nationwide to provide coverage everywhere. Cingular on the other hand pretty much does.... |
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Originally posted by samab No --- Cingular NEVER said that. The precise quote is "Cingular said it expects to offer 3G services in most major markets by the end of 2006." Verizon has SIMILAR language for "most major markets" by the end of 2005. You have to be fair on both sides. If you are saying that Verizon won't be "national wide" until 2006 (a year after "most major markets), then you have to also say that Cingular won't be "national wide" until 2007. |
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Originally posted by scottj And, whichever way you look at it, the US is going to have multiple, nationwide, 3G services in 12-24 months. You really think that would have been the case prior to the Cingular/ATTWS merger? I don't. |
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Originally posted by bobolito That is if everything works out as planned. There could be unexpected difficulties and those dates can be pushed further. So they may end up not being about a year apart. |
like little schoolage children. 
Give it up. Both will provide the same technologlys about the same time, and in the end it will be price and coverage that matters, not the technologly. Look at sprint, they tried to tout thier technologly to make sales a few years ago, and are still doing it today "all pcs, all digital" Nobody cares except us cell phone grurs. How do i contact howard on starting an entire flaming section, prehaps call it the dumpster. "All someone would say is "I'll meet you behind the dumpster" 
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Originally posted by Network 10 Don't worry. The UMTS engineers are 10 steps ahead. Japan has already been working on 4G for about 2 years now, reaching speeds up to 300 MB/s ( and about 135 MB/s when moving at 30 kilometers per second , and being about 800m - 1km away from the 4G basestation ). Their goal is 1GB/s stationary. Yes : 1 GB per second !
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Originally posted by samab I disagree with you on this issue. This 3G race really had nothing to do with the Cingular/ATTWS merger at all. Verizon announced their ev-do plans in Jan 2004, a month before Cingular bought AT&T. This 3G race really started when Verizon found out that big businesses are willing to pay $80 a month on wireless broadband. Once Verizon found the gold mine, suddenly, Sprint "we will never launch ev-do because we will wait for ev-dv" PCS changed their mind and decided to launch ev-do. Then Cingular "we will launch wcdma in 2008" suddenly move up their launch schedule by 2-3 years. |
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Originally posted by scottj And your statements above reiterate what I said - Sprint jumped on, Cingular jumped on, right, exactly, because of the competitive pressure they were feeling from Verizon. |
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Originally posted by samab That's not what you said originally. You stated that it was cingular's merger with attws that created this pressure on verizon to accelerate their ev-do plans. But the fact is that verizon accelerated their plans in jan 2004, a month before cingular announced their purchase of attws. Remember when verizon accelerated their plans in jan 2004, there were no outside pressure to do 3g in the states. Cingular was willing to wait until 2008. Sprint was willing to wait until ev-dv. ATTWS was obligated to do 3g in (a shrinking list of) 4 cities. The question is that what made verizon accelerated their ev-do plans in the first place (when none of its competitors were even remotely interested). My answer is that verizon found a viable business model of $80 per month for enterprise business customers. |
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Originally posted by scottj Not to beat a dead horse, but did Verizon accelerate their plans from perviously announced targets, as Cingular did, or did they announce their plans? Big difference and I'm not suggesting I know the answer. I was not aware that Verizon had announced plans for their 3G rollout and then announced at a later point that they were accelerating that deployment. I'm not clear on their existing coverage but I thought, in terms of existing 3G coverage, ATTWS (and now Cingular) was already covering more than Verizon's 3G. Anyway, I'm just glad I'll have options in the nearer term rather than the longer term. |
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Originally posted by DeLoReAnMcLaReN FINALLY... UMTS coming out at the same time as HSDPA: HSDPA =700kbps data (bursts up to 2Mbps)! All of it is going to be offered right away as it's rolled out. |
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Originally posted by samab I disagree with you on this issue. This 3G race really had nothing to do with the Cingular/ATTWS merger at all. Verizon announced their ev-do plans in Jan 2004, a month before Cingular bought AT&T. This 3G race really started when Verizon found out that big businesses are willing to pay $80 a month on wireless broadband. Once Verizon found the gold mine, suddenly, Sprint "we will never launch ev-do because we will wait for ev-dv" PCS changed their mind and decided to launch ev-do. Then Cingular "we will launch wcdma in 2008" suddenly move up their launch schedule by 2-3 years. |
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Originally posted by ixocean Verizon was very much aware that consolidation was in the air and knew they had to position themselves to prevent any potential merger of competitors from causing a mass exodus of subscribers. |
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Originally posted by samab As I stated many times in the past, the average speed for HSDPA (400-700 kbps) is only slightly faster than Verizon's EV-DO average speed (300-500 kbps). The 14 mbps speed claim for HSDPA is just pure hype. When Verizon updates their network to the newer revision of ev-do, then there will be speed parity on both sides. |
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Originally posted by walkguru who the hell cares , are you trolling?
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Originally posted by Network 10 When I read about HSDPA, I always get the figure 14 mbps. But the recent Cingular 3G Depployment news reports that average speeds will be between 400 -700 kbps. Why can't the networks ever actually achieve the 14 mbps promised ? or even a figure close to the number ? Is it due to insufficient bandwith to base stations ?
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Originally posted by samab Except that I am one of the most balance (and level headed) posters in these forums. |
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Originally posted by yellowfintuna New technologies are using higher bandwidth for channels to overcome this limitation. That is why UMTS is using 5MHz channels compared to 1.25 MHz for 1XRTT/EV-DO. |
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Originally posted by bobolito What makes you think so? You really sound arrogant with that "I am better than all of you" attitude. That's not welcome here so we'll appreciate it if you can cut it out and come back down to Earth. By the way, Cingular's first statement about 3G was that they could have it on 850Mhz by 2006-2007. However, they can have 3G sooner (2005) on 1900Mhz. I don't think they ever said 2008, unless you have some proof of that. |
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Originally posted by bobolito That clearly explains the greater potential of WCDMA over CDMA2000. Although some others may not like to hear that. |
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Originally posted by TexasStateTau That is a smart move by Cingular. I just hope that Verizon or Sprint will try to pull something out by then or you might see a lot of people switch to Cingular. They are indeed becoming a force to rec. with |
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Originally posted by samab How do I sound arrogant? All my comments have been very polite. Unless I was attacked by someone first, I never attack other people. I never draw "first blood". |
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Originally posted by samab Except that your comments (and yellowfintuna's) don't actually answer Network 10's question. |
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Originally posted by bobolito Haven't you read the news lately? Verizon is rolling out EV-DO by the end of 2005 in most US markets. So they seem to be ahead of Cingular. |
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Originally posted by I have a phone define most. By their own industry releases they will not cover all their POPs for at least 2+ years. And that's generous from what I've heard. |
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Originally posted by bobolito It is not the first time you try to rub in people's face how superior you believe you are in comparison to others. That is called arrogance. It was just a matter of time before I called your attention about it. In the past, I let it go, but I just got a bit too much of it. |
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Originally posted by bobolito Let's not turn the table around. I know the circumstances behind every instance where your true colors have shown. So don't try to tell me which side I should be on. |
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Originally posted by samab So my argument has always been that verizon found a viable business model, and then all the other players jumped in. |
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Originally posted by samab Remember that Vodafone was bidding for ATTWS at that point. If Vodafone won, then there would not be any consolidation at all. Also remember that Verizon announced their ev-do plans only 6 weeks after portability became in effect. At that time, Verizon was pulling in 20-30 new customers for every departing customer (and ATTWS was losing existing customers by the same ratio). Any company that bought ATTWS would have to deal with ATTWS' mass exodus. Therefore I disagree with your merger/consolidation/mass exodus argument. |
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Originally posted by samab I may be wrong on the 2008 time, but my argument remains the same --- that there were no outside pressure in Jan 2004 on verizon to launch ev-do. Vodafone was bidding on attws (consolidation wasn't a sure thing). It was 6 weeks after portability came into effect and verizon wasn't afraid that their own customers will defect in a mass exodus. Cingular/sprint/nextel/t-mobile weren't willing to launch 3G in the near future. So my argument has always been that verizon found a viable business model, and then all the other players jumped in. How do I sound arrogant? All my comments have been very polite. Unless I was attacked by someone first, I never attack other people. I never draw "first blood". |
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Originally posted by bigmike20 I am mostly looking forward for video calling and surf the net at the same time. What feature you guys can't wait to experience with on UMTS? |
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Originally posted by ixocean Every carrier has people dedicated to forward planning, more specifically mergers and acquisitions. VZW was preparing, as were other carriers, for WLNP and one of the strategies (regardless whether anyone realized it) was to implement 2 year contracts. VZW, like many other carriers, had projections of best case and worst case scenarios for defection, based on the numbers seen in Europe (which were significant). Let's just say, they expected MUCH more movement with WLNP than was/is being seen. Verizon's business model has always included major and small business accounts as being a primary focus. They have long been after ARPU ratios, like Nextel's, another reason for the major push toward PTT deployment. |
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Originally posted by AdmiralAK It makes no sense for VZW to change to GSM now, wCDMA would be more likely. The question is this: how likely is it for vodafone to get 20% more, force the name change and provide a compatible technology? Or at least force the "lets provide cdma/gsm/wcdma phones only" ? |
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Originally posted by samab That's the problem --- you are the moderator --- you shouldn't take sides in the first place. |
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Originally posted by bobolito One thing is me enforcing the rules, and another is you believing I am taking sides. |
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Originally posted by poltroop82 "my company is better than yours, nane nane boo boo stick your head in doo doo" Go back to your own forum. |
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Originally posted by bobolito One thing is me enforcing the rules, and another is you believing I am taking sides. |
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Originally posted by ixocean The change to GSM was brought up over a year ago, and voted down by the board, primarily due to the majority ownership stake of Verizon Communications. VZW will not switch this late into the deployment of EVDO, from CDMA to GSM, unless Vodafone were able to gain majority ownership, which Verizon Com would fight to the bitter end to prevent from happening. |
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Originally posted by samab Well, poltroop82 just told me to stick my head in doo doo --- and the moderator is doing nothing about that. Instead, the moderator is picking at me when I have said nothing bad in this thread at all. |
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