vB Easy Archive - What you think of your winter tires so far this season?

Pages: 1

What you think of your winter tires so far this season?
(Click here to view the original thread with full colors/images)

Posted by: WoNGsTeR

Just wonder for those who actually bought winter tires this season or using their existing ones from last year. Just want to know.

What winter tires you got?
How long you have been using winter tires so far?
Got them this year?
How does it preform in: the snow so far?
How does it preform with out snow?
Would you use them again this year?
and if this is the best winter tires you have used so far?

Posted by: WoNGsTeR

For myself

What winter tires you got?
Toyo G-02 on 15 inch steelies

How long you have been using winter tires so far?
First year using winter tires.

Got them this year?
Yes got them this year

How does it preform in: the snow so far?
It drives wicked!.. can go 40-60 km/h on heavy snow with no problem.. have to be slightly careful when the snow is slushy though.

How does it preform with out snow?
Drives ok, however can't drive more than 140km/h without feeling not safe on it. and it sounds pretty loud driving but then again i have music on lough anyways.

Would you use them again this year?
Yes i would, but once these wear out i wouldnt mind trying other brands.

if this is the best winter tires you have used so far?
This is my first set of winter tires, but so far they are a lot better than all season in the snow, and are well worth the money for me to get another pair again.

Posted by: Stock R

What winter tires you got?

16" Pirelli Scorpians on Odyssey
14" Pirelli Winter Carvings on Corolla

How long you have been using winter tires so far?

3 years. Last set was 16" Pirelli 210s

Got them this year?

Yes, Both sets in mid december.

How does it preform in: the snow so far?

Both sets are excellent. The Scorpians have done a lot better than the 210's. I'm sure the current 210's are very good, but compared to the old 210's it was night and day. Compared to all-seasons, even more so. Neither ABS nor TCS come in nearly as much as they use to.

The Winter Carvings have done very well as well. These are suppose to be recommended for beemers and such and have a very agressive pattern despite being a pretty low end model. It's also studdable. These are being used on a corolla with no abs and no tcs. No problems yet.

I haven't had a single problem yet, Never been stuck once, even in deep snow where all the other cars were having problems. I've driven in bad snow as well from TO to Ottawa and the distance in between.

How does it preform with out snow?

Haven't had a chance to use them in no snow yet

Would you use them again this year?

Yes. Great price, Great performance. Although I only originally got them because the Michelin X-ices were sold out, I'd buy them again.

and if this is the best winter tires you have used so far?

Yes. The old Pirelli w210's were nowhere close.

Posted by: WoNGsTeR

Quote:

Originally posted by Stock R
Yes. Great price, Great performance. Although I only originally got them because the Michelin X-ices were sold out, I'd buy them again.

same reason why i got my toyo too.. except the michelin x-ice they didnt have rims to fit on my car at the time.. dono why.. lol..

Posted by: hofo_mofo

im sorry i dont remember what winter tires i have...but they are good year and are 16 inch...

with my 4WD Rav4 and those winter tires...man driving in winter in easier than before...im not saying i get cocky and do whatever, but that winter driving is easier, but all rules must still remain

Posted by: phuviano

What winter tires you got?
Toyo G-02 plus

How long you have been using winter tires so far?

Starting this winter

Got them this year?
Yes

How does it preform in: the snow so far?
They are ok.

How does it preform with out snow?
There's tires perform better in dry traction than my stock potenza's. Stock tires were potenza's re92, those tires suck. They suck in dry, wet and snow.

Would you use them again this year?
Yes, but not in the summer of course.

and if this is the best winter tires you have used so far?
I dunno, these are my first set of winter tires.

Hey wongster, just wondering how much you paid for your tires installed and balanced per tire?? what tire size are you using??

Posted by: mawti

What winter tires you got? Gislaved NordFrost II

How long you have been using winter tires so far? 4-5 years(?) Edit: Do you mean using winter tyers in general? Then longer than that.

Got them this year? No

How does it preform in the snow so far? Good, but of course not as great as when I first got them. This will be the last season for this set.

How does it preform with out snow? One word--LOUD. But high speed stability is acceptable, being only Q rated tyres. Have safely taken them up to their designated limit without any major problems. For a snow tyre, the performance is perfectly acceptable.

Would you use them again this year? Not this set. Will most likely get the NordFrost III next seasons (I love Gislaved), or may consider switching to their arch rival Nokians.

and if this is the best winter tires you have used so far? So far, this is the only set I have had on this car. But compared to the other snow tyres I've driven on other vehicles (Bridgestones, Yokohamas etc.), I would take the Gislaveds any day.

Posted by: WoNGsTeR

umm.. about 800 installed, balanced. including set of 15 inch steelies.. pluse a 3yr warranty incase there is a puncture they will fix it or if i blow a hole on the side they will replace it if cant fixed... got them at superior tires..

Posted by: phuviano

Quote:

Originally posted by WoNGsTeR
umm.. about 800 installed, balanced. including set of 15 inch steelies.. pluse a 3yr warranty incase there is a puncture they will fix it or if i blow a hole on the side they will replace it if cant fixed... got them at superior tires..

$800 before taxes I assume. I remember going to superior tire and they gave me a price somewhere around there.

Still a good deal since you got the 3 year warranty. Warranty is good on the tires.

Posted by: WoNGsTeR

no thats including taxes!...

ya their warranty is very good at superior tires... i bought some toyo all season tires before.. and the side wall blew for some reason.. and they replaced it with no questions asked.. so i usually deal with them for my tires..

Posted by: Lagos

What winter tires you got?
Bridgestone Blizzak LM-22

How long you have been using winter tires so far?
so far 3 months, but in general 5-6 years or more.

Got them this year? yes, brand new shipped from calgary.

How does it preform in the snow so far?
Performs really good but my slip control still kicks in here and there. Breaking is also effective and it almost feels like I am on a dry road. I can go up to 70km/h on snow with no problem.

How does it preform with out snow?
Performs just as well since they are performance winter tires. I got up to 200km/h on the way from detroit with no problems.

Would you use them again this year?
yes definitely

and if this is the best winter tires you have used so far?
yes these are the best winter tires so far.

Posted by: c^2

What winter tires you got?
Toyo SnowProx S950.

How long you have been using winter tires so far?
Since mid-November.

Got them this year? Yes, from Steelcase.

How does it preform in the snow so far?
Good. You can really feel them "bite" into the snow. Pretty slippery on ice though. Should still be better than A/S.

How does it preform with out snow?
They're decent. Lateral grip is slightly less than the (mediocre) stock high performance all seasons (Goodyear Eagle RS-A). Acceleration and braking is better. Many people have commented on how quiet they are for winter tires. I have taken them to 190km/h on the way back from Detroit and they're perfectly stable and handle fine (they're H-rated to 210km/h).

Would you use them again this year?
Yes.

and if this is the best winter tires you have used so far?
First time using winter tires.

Posted by: B0000rt

What winter tires you got?
Michelin Arctic Alpins 14" on steelies

How long you have been using winter tires so far?
3rd Winter

Got them this year?
No

How does it preform in: the snow so far?
Just great.

How does it preform with out snow?
Not so good compared to the Allseasons (probably due to the 16" vs 14" rim size) Annoying sipons (or whatever they're called) make plenty of high pitched noise at 40-50km/h

Would you use them again this year?
Again? They're still on, heh

and if this is the best winter tires you have used so far?
I wouldn't know.

How long are winters generally supposed to last?

My Alpins have plenty of tread left, and the sipons or whatever are still pretty deep..

Posted by: WoNGsTeR

thats it? nobody else has winter tires?

Posted by: gawa

What winter tires you got?
Michelin Arctic Alpins

How long you have been using winter tires so far?
Second winter

Got them this year?
Nope

How does it preform in: the snow so far?
Good traction in the snow. Nothing to complain about - they've been great.

How does it preform with out snow?
They're pretty good on dry/wet ground. Only gripe here is that they make a high-pitched whining sound when it's raining and you're driving at 40+ km/h like B0000rt said. Haven't noticed much whining on dry ground though.

Would you use them again this year?
Already using them

and if this is the best winter tires you have used so far?
First time using winter tires

Posted by: B0000rt

Very heh, that high pitched noise is annoying, but then again, it's supposed to be one of the best tires on ice (rare conditions heh)

Posted by: mawti

Quote:

Originally posted by B0000rt
Very heh, that high pitched noise is annoying, but then again, it's supposed to be one of the best tires on ice (rare conditions heh)

Um, sorry to burst your bubble but Michelins are no where near being "one of the best tires on ice". If you honestly think so, you are just kidding yourself. It is generally accepted and proven that the two Scandinavian manufacturers are tops. As 'good' as the Alpins may be, I would only consider them a 'Tier 2' ice tyre as there are much better tyres available on the market.

Posted by: B0000rt

Quote:

Originally posted by mawti
Um, sorry to burst your bubble but Michelins are no where near being "one of the best tires on ice". If you honestly think so, you are just kidding yourself. It is generally accepted and proven that the two Scandinavian manufacturers are tops. As 'good' as the Alpins may be, I would only consider them a 'Tier 2' ice tyre as there are much better tyres available on the market.

Bubble not burst, "supposed to be", and "is", are two totally different things.

But hey, whatever floats your boat.

Tier 2 it is, want an apple now?

Posted by: Zaku_4

What winter tires you got?
hankook icebear w300

How long you have been using winter tires so far?
november or december

Got them this year?
yes

How does it preform in: the snow so far?
firs ttime using winter tires, they are alot better, like really alot, then the stock rs-a's. i can actually move 20+km/h and can stop PERIOD. very minimal slippage, unless your turning and u give it alot of gas

How does it preform with out snow?
without snow it doesnt feel as stiff or plated as the stock rs-a's. maybe its just me i dunno, but still very good, and quieter then my stock tires

Would you use them again this year?
i would use them till they die

and if this is the best winter tires you have used so far?
first time using a winter tire.

Posted by: hotch

i think i'm gunna switch back to blizzaks next winter....

Posted by: WoNGsTeR

Quote:

Originally posted by hotch
i think i'm gunna switch back to blizzaks next winter....

why? pls explain? dont just give us an answer with no explaination? what tires you using now and your reason?

Posted by: FullStrength

What winter tires you got?

Michellin Arctic Alpine (pilot)

How long you have been using winter tires so far?

2 winters

Got them this year?

2 yrs ago
How does it preform in: the snow so far?

Excellent, my car is solid in the snow

How does it preform with out snow?

Good, low noise
Would you use them again this year?

have already

and if this is the best winter tires you have used so far?

these are really my first winter tyres

Posted by: mawti

Quote:

Originally posted by B0000rt
Bubble not burst, "supposed to be", and "is", are two totally different things.

But hey, whatever floats your boat.

Tier 2 it is, want an apple now?

Yes, and "supposed to be" and "no where near" are two totally different things as well. So as long as we are in agreement, that is fine with me. Just didn't want you to go around giving people inaccurate information, that's all.

Cheers mate

Posted by: chrix

Wait, I thought Arctic Pilot is different from Arctic Alpine.

Winter Tires: some cheap $70 pirelli
How long: 3rd set now

Got them this year? since Feb 2004.. so "yes"

How does it preform in: the snow so far? fresh snow- very good, Water - OK, ice - crappy.

How does it preform with out snow? the tread gets eat away like crazy.

Would you use them again this year? probably will use it as long as this car will last

and if this is the best winter tires you have used so far? Arctic Pilot... but that was on a different car..

in all I think winter tires are a must if you plan on driving daily in Toronto. If you can't afford good ones, grab whatever you can.

Posted by: B0000rt

Quote:

Originally posted by mawti
Yes, and "supposed to be" and "no where near" are two totally different things as well. So as long as we are in agreement, that is fine with me. Just didn't want you to go around giving people inaccurate information, that's all.

Cheers mate

So Tier 2, means "no where near" now? Maybe you should define your Tiered scales, before you say anything, otherwise we may confuse Tier 2 to be high grade, if in a scale with 10 distinct tiers. But whatever, you say the Michelin Arctic Alpins are garbage on ice and only ice, since we were not refering to any other aspect of the tire, other than ice performance, then fine. So be it. Also because of the fact that Michelin is a dirty French company, who always loses wars, in turn, can never produce a worthy, 'Tier 1' winter tire that will perform exceptionally on ice.

Because that's what we were refering to right, ice performance, and nothing else.

Posted by: B0000rt

Quote:

Originally posted by chrix
Wait, I thought Arctic Pilot is different from Arctic Alpine.

Oh, they are, but I believe the Arctic Alpins are made with a softer compound, which gives for better ride quality.

But these tire lines are discontinued

Posted by: mawti

Quote:

Originally posted by B0000rt
So Tier 2, means "no where near" now? Maybe you should define your Tiered scales, before you say anything, otherwise we may confuse Tier 2 to be high grade, if in a scale with 10 distinct tiers. But whatever, you say the Michelin Arctic Alpins are garbage on ice and only ice, since we were not refering to any other aspect of the tire, other than ice performance, then fine. So be it. Also because of the fact that Michelin is a dirty French company, who always loses wars, in turn, can never produce a worthy, 'Tier 1' winter tire that will perform exceptionally on ice.

Because that's what we were refering to right, ice performance, and nothing else.

Sorry, yes, it was my mistake. I should of made clear what I meant exactly by "Tier 2", as in my head at least, there are 3 maybe 4 tiers. (Sorry, for some reason, I assumed everyone knew what goes on in my head ^^)
Tier 2 & 3 would also include the Bridgestones Blizzaks, Pirelli Snowsports, Contis etc., as well as some lower quality brands ie. Toyo, Kuhmo etc., and 4 being the utter rubbish such as Crappy Tire brand, Cooper? etc.

And the reason the Alpins isn't quite "one of the best ice tyres", has nothing to do with the fact Michelin is a French company. I really have no idea where you got that idea from. Why would the nationality have anything to do with the performance of a tyre? It is just that being 'one of the best ice tyres' was never the Alpins' intended purpose. That is it. And it's not. So claiming otherwise would just be silly.

Ok ok, I'll stop now. You already agreed with me that you were wrong making such claim about those tyres, so there's really no need to take it any further. I apologize.

Posted by: B0000rt

Quote:

Originally posted by mawti
Sorry, yes, it was my mistake. I should of made clear what I meant exactly by "Tier 2", as in my head at least, there are 3 maybe 4 tiers. (Sorry, for some reason, I assumed everyone knew what goes on in my head ^^)
Tier 2 & 3 would also include the Bridgestones Blizzaks, Pirelli Snowsports, Contis etc., as well as some lower quality brands ie. Toyo, Kuhmo etc., and 4 being the utter rubbish such as Crappy Tire brand, Cooper? etc.

And the reason the Alpins isn't quite "one of the best ice tyres", has nothing to do with the fact Michelin is a French company. I really have no idea where you got that idea from. Why would the nationality have anything to do with the performance of a tyre? It is just that being 'one of the best ice tyres' was never the Alpins' intended purpose. That is it. And it's not. So claiming otherwise would just be silly.

Ok ok, I'll stop now. You already agreed with me that you were wrong making such claim about those tyres, so there's really no need to take it any further. I apologize.

Apology accepted

Posted by: c^2

Quote:

Originally posted by mawti

Tier 2 & 3 would also include the Bridgestones Blizzaks, Pirelli Snowsports, Contis etc., as well as some lower quality brands ie. Toyo, Kuhmo etc., and 4 being the utter rubbish such as Crappy Tire brand, Cooper? etc

Toyo = low quality?
far from it

Posted by: TeLLy2k4

Second winter on my Wintermarks (low-budget Walmart winter tires) and I still love em. Even these cheapo winter tires are better than stocker all-seasons. They've gotten me out of some sticky situations in Hamilton and the surrounding area.

Posted by: Tennoh

What winter tires you got?
Nokian Hakkapeliitta RSI

How long you have been using winter tires so far?
Bought them new in Nov/2004 using stock wheels, no extra steel rims. 1st car of my own and thus 1st set of winter tires for me. But have driven other cars with winters.

Got them this year?
Yup, this winter.

How does it preform in: the snow so far?
Excellent, plenty of grip for the quick acceleration whenever slow asses aren't in front of me with their all seasons. On open streets/highways on those days/nights of fresh snow, regularly go up to 110km/h with no difficulty or fear.

How does it preform with out snow?
Pretty good. Good up to around 140km/h before getting squirmy at turns.

Would you use them again this year?
You mean for next winter? For sure, they're brand new and haven't worn down that quickly. I'm hoping it'll last for at least 2 seasons with moderate/hard driving style.

and if this is the best winter tires you have used so far?
I have driven in cars with Blizzaks, and as compared, these Hakka RSi are much better at speed and grip for the weather we've so far experienced in GTA. Plus I'm pretty confident they'll last longer than Blizzaks too.

Nokian's rock. Everyone who buys them pretty much select them from word of mouth based on how good the tires are. I went on these and specifically hunted these down and have not regretted whatsoever. Highly recommend.

Posted by: mawti

Quote:

Originally posted by Tennoh
Nokian's rock. Everyone who buys them pretty much select them from word of mouth based on how good the tires are. I went on these and specifically hunted these down and have not regretted whatsoever. Highly recommend.

Aye, good man.

Posted by: mawti

Quote:

Originally posted by c^2
Toyo = low quality?
far from it

Sorry mate, but if you truly believe that as it pertains to the discussion, than you are sorely mistaken or just kidding yourself. There is no fault in my assessment. B0000rt was able to clue into that quickly.

Posted by: c^2

^ "High quality" can be defined in a variety of ways. Sure, there are better tires for snow and ice but it comes at the cost of road noice and possibly treadwear. What I look for in a winter tire is having decent winter performance while remaining quiet and sacrificing the least dry traction possible.

Posted by: [bisheadking]

Wish chains were still legal.

All these arguments would be pointless.

Posted by: B0000rt

Quote:

Originally posted by [bisheadking]
Wish chains were still legal.

All these arguments would be pointless.

Maybe studded tires will be legal soon!

Posted by: Lagos

mawti, after reading your last post, I think we all wonder what would you consider "Tier 1" winter/snow tires?

Posted by: phuviano

Quote:

Originally posted by Lagos
mawti, after reading your last post, I think we all wonder what would you consider "Tier 1" winter/snow tires?

Probably the ones he has on his car.

Posted by: [bisheadking]

heh

Posted by: mawti

Quote:

Originally posted by Lagos
mawti, after reading your last post, I think we all wonder what would you consider "Tier 1" winter/snow tires?

If you actually read my initial post, you wouldn't have to wonder as I already have suggested as to which brands those are.

A "Tier 1" ice tyre would usually be any tyre that is studable. ie. The Nokians, the Gislaveds etc. They offer maximum winter traction with little compromise for anything else. Although being studable doesn't always guarantee superio traction, a 'low quality' Toyo wouldn't dream of even coming close in terms of performance in this respect.

Posted by: [bisheadking]

In your opinion.

Posted by: mawti

No, as I have not even tried a set of Toyos, it is in the opinion of independent adjudicators.

Posted by: INNOVA

Tires I have for the snow:

225/45R17 Bridgestone Potenza RE070 Summer/Directional
Offset 53mm

I'm gunna die.

Posted by: [bisheadking]

Quote:

Originally posted by mawti
No, as I have not even tried a set of Toyos, it is in the opinion of independent adjudicators.

Then do not claim there is no fault in your assesment.

Posted by: WoNGsTeR

if you havnt tried them pls dont speak down on toyos... i'ved been using toyos and i live by them.. they work great for me for winter tires...

I am not sayin they are the best because i have never used other winters, and maybe the ones you have are better, but the toyos atleast the model i'm using they certainly they work great, and have not slid or wiped out in them, and you know i sometimes drive crazy...

so if you have not tried a brand, dont talk crap about it and they certainly not low quality....

Posted by: phuviano

Why do u guys even both arguing with mawti. He's always got to be right with everything. You guys browse the car forums as much as I do.

Just remember, if you guys need any advice. Just ask Mawti, cause he knows everything.

Toyo's are great tires, maybe not the best. I would definetly say not low quality though.

all I gotta say is "hahahahaha".

I luv HOFO.

Posted by: mawti

Quote:

Why do u guys even both arguing with mawti. He's always got to be right with everything.

I'll just add a corollary to that.
"mawti always got to be right with everything....when he knows for sure he is right"
[You may have noticed I usually only fight battles that I know I can win.]

Anyways, my 'assessment', is based on a) some very limited person experience, b)word of mouth, but most importantly, c) the 'opinions' and test results conducted by independent adjudicators.

You don't have to take my word for it. Just ask any knowlegable tyre expert (obvious, I do not consider myself to be one) on their opinions. Call up your local tyre shop and ask them, "how does the best set of Toyo's compare with the best set of Nokians (Hakkas) in terms of ice traction?".

I guarentee you, the answer will not be Toyo. People, if it wasn't entirely clear before, let me state it again.

These 'assessment' are based purely on a tyre's ice traction performance.

B0000rt had no trouble understading that. So I have no idea why it seems so difficult for the rest of you people.

And I had no intention of singeling out Toyo as a tyre with 'low quality' tread patterened tyre. I could of choose any number of brands, just that c^2 insisted that that was not the case. And at first, I thought to replace "tyres of low quality" with "tyres from small manufacturers" that may not have the necessary resources and technology to compete with the big names such as Bridgestone and Michelin, in order to avoid controversy with the terminology. But by doing so, that would negate Nokian's position, being a comparitively small company itself, and my intent being clear enough, you people would be smart enough to distinguish my objective.

And actually, using Toyo as the lower benchmark wasn't even in my best interests either, as the reports I saw did not even include them in their tests. They only selected dedicated winter/ice tyres for that test. But I do recall seeing the Michelin Alpins and possibily Bridegstone Blizzaks were also tested. [On the subject, if anyone knows which report I am speaking of, and has a link to the results, could you please post a link to it? Sorry, I found it from another forum while researching winter tyres, who's location slips my mind at the moment. I recall it was written in Swedish, if that is of any help.]

I'm quite disappointed. I would have thought, at least those who've been on this forum for a while, would know that I am usually not one to "blow water" in my posts...er, "********". There are many other ways in which you could describe my comments and style of posting, but I really hoped 'bs' was not one of them.

Anyways, that is really all I have to say about the subject. If after you see the test results, get the opinions of tyre experts and the personal experiences of those who have actually owned these tyres, yet still cannot accept the truth about which tyres are in fact, 'the best' ice tyres, and which are 'low quality', then I'm sorry, the problem clearly is not on my side.

Cheers.

Posted by: chrix

Quote:

Originally posted by mawti
And actually, using Toyo as the lower benchmark wasn't even in my best interests either, as the reports I saw did not even include them in their tests. They only selected dedicated winter/ice tyres for that test.

yea... that's what i've found too.

o yea guys, go find out what tire they use in Rally... i dont recall seeing Toyo on any of them... correct me if im wrong thou.

Posted by: [bisheadking]

^^ The problem is not whether you're right or wrong, the problem is whenever you get into a debate you're very condescending and demeaning.

And i dont think.
"Anyways, my 'assessment', is based on a) some very limited person experience, b)word of mouth, but most importantly, c) the 'opinions' and test results conducted by independent adjudicators. "

Merits,
"mawti always got to be right with everything....when he knows for sure he is right"

Personally i would like to have personal experience before making such a comment.
Independent Adjudicators, as you put it, always have bias's, people always have preferences, we're all human, so what best for someone may not be best for someone else. This topic is pretty subjective in my opinion, and for you to conclude that your opinion is the be all and end all (which you have, if not directly) is pretty arrogant.

And the thing i've said here dont only apply to this thread, its things i've seen over the year or so.

Good Day.

Posted by: B0000rt

Sarcasm's quite hard to convey over the internet.

It's obviously not worth anyone's time to argue with mawti, and I simply accepted that.

Posted by: FullStrength

DUCKSEASON!

can we talk about winter tires now ?

Posted by: Zaku_4

NOKIANS SUCKS.
NORDIC WINTERS FOREVER!!$(*@&$%@#

hahaha j/k

Posted by: WoNGsTeR

Quote:

Originally posted by mawti
You don't have to take my word for it. Just ask any knowlegable tyre expert (obvious, I do not consider myself to be one) on their opinions. Call up your local tyre shop and ask them, "how does the best set of Toyo's compare with the best set of Nokians (Hakkas) in terms of ice traction?".

actually when i was shopping around for winter tires couple months ago.. i was highly recommend by 3 shops to go for the toyo's g-02.. and checking customers reviews on those tires they have over 90% positive feedback..

And i am glad i got these tires.. all i'm saying is dont bash a brand u never tried from experience.. just cause the toyo's and not studable dont mean they are low quality.

and if you read what me and c^2 said.. we weren't implying that toyos are the best or trying to compare you Nokians.. we were trying saying they arent low quality... because from both c^2 and i experiences they certainly not low quality nor would i keep buying that brand if they were low quality!!!..

Posted by: WoNGsTeR

Quote:

Originally posted by chrix
yea... that's what i've found too.

o yea guys, go find out what tire they use in Rally... i dont recall seeing Toyo on any of them... correct me if im wrong thou.

ok again if you read my post we are not saying they are the best... what we are trying to get to mawti's head that they are not low quality... just because they are not studable....

Posted by: Lagos

Quote:

Originally posted by WoNGsTeR
ok again if you read my post we are not saying they are the best... what we are trying to get to mawti's head that they are not low quality... just because they are not studable....

wongster wongster,my speeding friend, we'll never get mawti's head...

I never used toyo tires but I'll take wongster and c^2's word for it...

Posted by: Suzuka Blue

What winter tires you got?

Bridgestone Blizzak WS-50, 15"

How long you have been using winter tires so far?

Since the very end of November '04

Got them this year?

See above.

How does it preform in: the snow so far?

Excellent

How does it preform with out snow?

Not too shabby, I've gone up to the maximum speed rating on those things w/o a problem.

Would you use them again this year?

I'll use them as long as they're not bald.

and if this is the best winter tires you have used so far?

These are the only snows I've used and I'd choose them again, given the choice.

Posted by: mawti

Quote:

Originally posted by FullStrength
DUCKSEASON!

can we talk about winter tires now ?

WABBITSEASON!

Sure, I would love to get back to talking about winter tyres, except that people here don't seem to be be asking the right questions.

Since all of you seem to just want to "get into mawti's head", why don't we do that then? (Dan knocked me for doing this a while back but I don't care because I think its effect. Also, I find it quite fun.

)

None of you seem too interested in asking the 'right questions' about tyres, so I'll just ask myself. (The role of "myself" will be played by "Generic Hofo Member"). Here we go...

------------------
Generic Hofo Member: Hey lads, which winter tyre performs the best on ice?

mawti: I know, I know since I know everything. The answer is Nokian Hakkapeliittas. It is head and shoulders above everything else, save maybe for the Gislaved Nordfrost IIIs.

GHM: What? No way, I heard the Michelin Arctic Alpins one of the best ice tyres money can buy. And that the Toyos Whatevers is a high quality ice tyre too.

m: Nope. When you have a set Hakkapeliittas available on the market, you will see even the Alpins, as good as a winter tyre it may be, really doesn't come close to matching the Nokians for ice traction performance. And the Toyos, well those should be considered somewhat low quality in this respect.

GHM: What? Low quality? You arrogant *******, how can you call it low quality when you haven't even tried it? Who the hell are you to call them low quality?

m: Yes, low quality--a low quality tyre for ice performance. As chrix correctly note, Toyo do not in fact, have much participation in rallying or other forms of motorsports that would aid in the development of their winter tyres.

GHM: What? How is that important? That's a lot of bull mawti, stop make shite up. Big deal, manufacturers like Nokian or Gislaved do not either. So what does 'rallying' have to do with anything?

m: More than you would think. (I didn't want to bring this into the discussion because it requires a bit of intuition and knowledge about the tyre industry. But since chrix mentioned it, I think now would be a good time.) One thing Nokian and Toyo have in common is that they are both relatively small tyre manufacturers, "independents" if you will. And no where near the size of "the big boys"--the Bridgestones, the Michelins, the Goodyears etc. That also goes for the size of their budgets. Tyre development takes a lot of money—money the “independents” do not really have, where as the big boys, have the resources to throw hundreds of millions of dollars at motorsports (rallying, circuit racing, truck racing etc.) In order to stay competitive in the industry, the minnows can only afford to really focus on one specific area of tyre development, as dictated by their budgets. The Scandinavian brands have obviously chosen to focus on an area they are most familiar with--winter/ice tyre technology, as it is quite easy for them to do testing in their own backyards with their local climate. Conversely, anyone familiar with the Toyo brand understands that their focus is on an entirely different area—motorsports. In particular, track and circuit racing (i.e. dry weather performance). As with most Japanese tyre manufacturers, they put a strong emphasis on racing, and developing high quality performance tyres and are quite well known in this respect. However, where they lack in experience and technology is in their winter/ice tyre development programme—and area where the Scandinavians excel. Toyo simply cannot compete, nor do they have the resources to do so even if the wished.

GHM: What a load of bull mawti. My Toyo's perform great on ice. Who cares if they weren’t developed with your 'race inspired' technology?

m: Which is exactly my point. As good you may think they are, they really are a "low tech"/"low quality" ice tyres. Here is some more intuition. Take a look at where Toyo's European divisions are based. UK, Holland, Germany...hardy places you would find "extreme winter conditions". Sure, Toyo could spend millions to do testing in Finland, Sweden, Canada, Antarctica, wherever. But I don’t need to take a look at their budget to tell you that isn't entirely feasible for them to do so. Just look at their Japanese ("rivals" would be overstating Toyo’s size), “competitors" Bridgestone. With the hundreds of millions they spend each year on tyre development, you would think that they would have the funds to make a "high quality" ice tyre to even compete with thier French and Italian rivals—but they don’t. Why? Because they don’t have the experience to do so either. (FYI: The top names in World Rallying are Michelin and Pirelli.)Being a Japanese tyre manufacture puts you at a great disadvantage for developing quality winter tyres. Japan—great for developing track tyres, lousy for developing winter tyres. Inventing a quality tyre is not something you can simply do on a computer, in a lab, or in a basement by mixing magical potions together. The only way is either to do extensive winter testing in suitable climate, and/or (usually AND) to gain valuable information through participation in related motorsports (i.e. Rallying). As with all forms of motorsports, manufactures don’t just go racing for ‘enjoyment’ of it, or to simply ‘advertise their brand’. The data and experience gained from it goes either directly, or indirectly, into the commercial products they produce—tyres are no different.

GHM: Um...yeah. But I still don’t agree with you saying Toyo makes "low quality" tyres. I just refuse to. Ok mister know-it-all, so which tyres would you recommend to buy for my sister’s Civic, who lives in downtown Toronto?

m: How about Toyo? Their winter tyres come highly recommended. You can give them a try.

GHM: WHAT? I just thought you said Toyo makes "low quality" winter tyres. So why on earth would you recommend a tyre that you seem to like to talk down on so much? You sound like you’re just full of shite.

m: Excuse me but I never once said Toyos are 'bad' tyres. The question was whether Toyos are 'good' ice tyres, which they certainly cannot claim to be. However, for such an application described, they are more than up to the task. And in terms of dry weather ultra high performance tyres, Toyo makes one of the best. In 2003 at the Nardo test facility in Italy, a Kleemann ML55K set the world land speed record for an SUV using Toyo Proxes S/T, at 175mph! So not Toyo tyres are most certainly not "low quality".

GHM: Excuses excuse. You seem to want to talk your way out of everything mawti.

m: I made it very clear throughout this discussion what exactly I was talking about. Toyo, albeit not being "one of the best" ice tyres, do make decent all around winter tyres, perfect for use in Toronto. A tyre like a Nokian Hakkapeliittas however, designed and intended for use on commonly icy roads in Finland or Sweden, my not be entirely suitable or necessary for Toronto roads with its comparatively softer compound. Whereas the Toyo, with slightly harder compound, stiffer sidewall and less aggressive tread pattern, make it a good compromise for dry, snow and ice covered roads. Although being a definite compromise for all those conditions with particular emphasis for ice traction, it still makes a very good choice for said application. But to be honest, I think the Michelin Arctic Alpins would be a superior tyre to both the Toyos, as well as the Nokians because test results show it does everything even better.

GHM: So what now, are you going back on your claim that Nokian makes the best winter tyre?

m: No, I never said that. I said the Nokian Hakkapeliittas are the best ice tyre. But having excellent ice traction at the expense of other properties may not be suitable for you. The "best winter tyre" really depends on your application, and what you want the tyre to do. If good tread life, high speed stability, low road noise, are important to you, then maybe the Hakkapeliittas are not the "best" for you.

GHM: Oh. I see.

m: So anymore questions? Any more bones to pick with me?

GHM: Umm...no (I hope.) But I still think you're an condescending ******* that talks too much and thinks too highly of himself.

m: Yes thank you, I'm actually quite proud of that. Nice talking to you [Generic Hofo Member]. Cheers mate.
---------------------------------------

[How's that for arrogance?

]

Posted by: c^2

^ That clears things up a bit. I never had a problem admitting that there were better ice tires than Toyos, but you originally labeled Toyos as "low quality tires" and failed to mention that you were referring to performance strictly on snow and ice. As you made it clear in your own post - Toyos are not low quality tires. If anything - Toyo's own website proudly states: "Toyo is once again rated #1 in product quality for 7 years running". Marketing ploy or not - there has to be at least some element of truth in that statement.

Also, with the amout of driving I do (>3000km/month), softer compounds (Blizzaks excl. LM-25 come to mind) would not be the best idea for me.

----------------------------------------------
OT: What's up with all the British spelling and terminology? "tyres" "cheers" "mate" "lads"...etc

Posted by: B0000rt

Funny how "it's supposed to be one of the best tires on ice"

became

"No way, I heard the Michelin Arctic Alpins one of the best ice tyres money can buy."

Posted by: mawti

Quote:

Originally posted by c^2
^ That clears things up a bit. I never had a problem admitting that there were better ice tires than Toyos, but you originally labeled Toyos as "low quality tires" and failed to mention that you were referring to performance strictly on snow and ice.

Well if you hadn't misquoted me in the first place, I'm sure none of this confusion would have transpired. However, it did give me a chance to see just exactly how hated I am on this forum, which I am grateful. In anycase, so long you now accept the fact, and we are all in agreement that Toyo does in fact make low quality winter tyres, I am satisfied.

Cheers mate.

Posted by: [bisheadking]

Hated?

Let's not get melodramatic.

Posted by: mawti

Wow, you really hurt me. If only people would pay more attention to what I write, as opposed to how I write, then I'm sure a lot of you would post a lot less.

Posted by: [bisheadking]

I don't see how you misconstrued my post as me trying to hurt you. If only people would pay more attention to what I write, as opposed to how I write, then I'm sure a lot of you would post a lot less.

None the less, I apologize to the threadstarter for going off topic.

Posted by: Lagos

Quote:

Originally posted by mawti
Well if you hadn't misquoted me in the first place, I'm sure none of this confusion would have transpired. However, it did give me a chance to see just exactly how hated I am on this forum, which I am grateful. In anycase, so long you now accept the fact, and we are all in agreement that Toyo does in fact make low quality winter tyres, I am satisfied.

Cheers mate.

mawti bro, you are most definitely NOT hated in this forum. people are jealous because of your knowledge. I believe your fault is the way you write stuff as you put it.

Let's get back to winter tires and enough is enough gents and ladies!

Posted by: B0000rt

Quote:

Originally posted by Lagos
Let's get back to winter tires and enough is enough gents and ladies!

Don'tcha just hate it when it's -5C, and the roads are clear, and you know you're winters are wearing away?

Posted by: Gatorade

What winter tires you got?
Some generic Canadian tire brand. :P

How long you have been using winter tires so far?
same tires, three years

Got them this year?
nope.

How does it perform in the snow so far?
much better in snow/slush than 4 seasons, but they're generic so I didn't expect much. A great improvement over my normal tires.

Sucks on solid ice though, but can't expect many tires to have grip on ice.

How does it preform with out snow?
loud as hell, even louder than my deafening engine noise + music.

Would you use them again this year?
Still on my car.

and if this is the best winter tires you have used so far?
Generic brand as my first, but i will experiment in the coming years.

Posted by: Lagos

Quote:

Originally posted by B0000rt
Don'tcha just hate it when it's -5C, and the roads are clear, and you know you're winters are wearing away?

actually I have no choice. there is no all-season for my tire size and I can't even go on a wet road safely with stock summer performance tires.

Posted by: c^2

^ what's the stock tire size for the G?

Posted by: pokerface

What winter tires you got?
yokohama AVS snow v901 in size 205 55 16, h rated

How long you have been using winter tires so far?
have about 30,000 kms on these

Got them this year?
nope, its my third winter on them

How does it preform in: the snow so far?
good. on the slush is excellent. deep snow can cause problems though. ice, well, not that great (but not many are...)

How does it preform with out snow?
excellent! definitely suitable for european models. very quiet and stable on the dry.

Would you use them again this year?
yes.

and if this is the best winter tires you have used so far?
first set of tires.. satisfied.

Posted by: Lagos

Quote:

Originally posted by c^2
^ what's the stock tire size for the G?

225/45/18 front
245/45/18 rear

there might be some all-season available but I couldn't find anything from major tire companies.

Posted by: EricssonBoi

What winter tires you got?
Toyo G02 Plus

How long you have been using winter tires so far?
Since November

Got them this year?
Yes

How does it perform in the snow so far?
Compared to the all season i had before, these grip great. I havn't had problem with them. I can basicly rely on them when i need to.

How does it preform with out snow?
A bit loud.. but I just tune into the music of the engine

Would you use them again this year?
Yes

and if this is the best winter tires you have used so far?
This is the first year using winter tires.. so i'd try different brands

As for the debate...
I got recommended these tires by a lot of people. I drive a lot and decided to spend a little bit extra compared to Canadian Tire or other brands. The only other brand that i got recommended that was better than the G02's were the Nokian Hakkapeliittas. But from what i heard.. they cost a lot more compared to the G02's.

As for the price i paid... I got hooked up and paid cost price for them. $125 per tire taxes included * 4 = $500 for 15" Tires.. + install $60 = $560

Posted by: B0000rt

Quote:

Originally posted by Lagos
actually I have no choice. there is no all-season for my tire size and I can't even go on a wet road safely with stock summer performance tires.

It's gonna climb to + degrees next week

Posted by: c^2

Would the end of Feb be too early to get my summers (technically all seasons) on?

Posted by: chrix

Quote:

Originally posted by c^2
Would the end of Feb be too early to get my summers (technically all seasons) on?

WAY too early
I'd hold till end of March.

Posted by: Lagos

yeah hold on until at least mid-march or end of march. you never know with toronto's weather.

B0000rt, I know man, its suppose to be all in the positives. personally I would prefer wearing out my winter tires to -40 degrees.

Posted by: B0000rt

Quote:

Originally posted by Lagos
yeah hold on until at least mid-march or end of march. you never know with toronto's weather.

B0000rt, I know man, its suppose to be all in the positives. personally I would prefer wearing out my winter tires to -40 degrees.

Yeah I know, winter tire compound is "supposed" to be "better" in colder weather heh..

Yeah mid-end of March would be good, better to let your tires wear out a little, rather than to get caught in a deep freeze in the middle of March with your AllSeasons/Summers...

Posted by: wamtt

What winter tires you got?
Nokian Hakkapeliitta 2, T-rated.

How long you have been using winter tires so far?
First time this year.

Got them this year?
Yes, at $175 a piece.

How does it preform in: the snow so far?
Performs excellent on snow and ice. excellent traction and control.

How does it preform with out snow?
With dry road, it is loud (but quiter than my friend's michelin).

Would you use them again this year?
Yes

and if this is the best winter tires you have used so far?
My first experience with winter tire and it is very positive. I would recomment Nokian to anyone who value safety more than brand preference.

Posted by: mawti

Quote:

Originally posted by EricssonBoi
As for the debate...
I got recommended these tires by a lot of people. I drive a lot and decided to spend a little bit extra compared to Canadian Tire or other brands. The only other brand that i got recommended that was better than the G02's were the Nokian Hakkapeliittas. But from what i heard.. they cost a lot more compared to the G02's.

Sorry just to clarify, "the debate" was not about which tyres come highly recommended, but which tyre performs the 'best on ice'. I'm sure all those people that recommened the G-02s to you had very good reason to do so. However, I just want make sure you know that in no way implies that they are even comparable to the Hakkapeliittas in the context of "[i]the debate[i]".

(Sorry EricssonBoi, I know that may not have been what you actually meant, but they way you phrased your post seemed to suggest otherwise.)

Posted by: mawti

Was able to test out some more winter tyres recently so I'll offer up some more reviews.

What winter tires you got? Pirelli 210 Snowsport

How long you have been using winter tires so far? Like I said, quite a while in general. But this set, I probabaly did roughly 500kms on them?

Got them this year? Well I didn't get them personally, as these are on my mum's Merc. But no, they are not new.

How does it preform in the snow so far? Grip on snow is pretty decent. Sometimes, I will purposely let the rear slide out a little and let the ESP sort things out. Once the car has recovered, traction is pretty predictable. Through slush is fine. But on the shiny stuff, it is not that difficult to get into situations whever even tc isn't going to save you.

How does it preform with out snow? On both dry and wet tarmac, the grip level is quite good. Under braking is where I was impressed the most. As it it a stiffer winter tyre than most, handling is improved and ride quality is pretty close to all-seasons. Road noise is also virtually unoticable at low to moderate speeds. But those are also the reasons why it is compromised as a winter tyre.

Would you use them again this year? Hmm, tough call. For my mum, sure, they are adequete. But for what I personally look for in a winter tyre, no, I would be looking elsewhere.

and if this is the best winter tires you have used so far? No, far from it. As a 'high-performance' type winter tyre, maybe. But handling is not the first thing I look for in winter tyres. Especially since I've riden on Gislaveds...

Posted by: mawti

Speaking of the devil...

What winter tires you got? Gislaved NordFrost III

How long you have been using winter tires so far? This set, I only had limited time with them. Maybe 100km. And all on dry tarmac (not much snow in the GTA these past few weeks). So take that into consideration.

Got them this year? Again, not my tyres. But yes, they are brand new.

How does it preform in the snow so far? (See Above). But if they perform anything like my NordFrost IIs (which in theory, they should and actually be superior to since they replace the IIs), they are nothing short of spectacular.

How does it preform with out snow? On the dry, much better than I expected. Keep in mind, these are with full tread, whereas my IIs are pretty much worn down completely. I did manage to test it on the motorway and road noise is surprisingly good cosidering. Perhaps it is also attributed to the car, but I don't remember my old IIs being this quite before. Handling wise, obviously could be better but that is not what this tyre was made for.

Would you use them again this year? I will definately be choosing between this and the Hakkapeliitta 2 next season when I go winter tyre shopping again next season.

and if this is the best winter tires you have used so far? Well if they the perform anywhere near as good on the snow & ice as my NordFrost IIs, then yes, absolutely.

Posted by: EricssonBoi

Quote:

Originally posted by mawti
Sorry just to clarify, "the debate" was not about which tyres come highly recommended, but which tyre performs the 'best on ice'. I'm sure all those people that recommened the G-02s to you had very good reason to do so. However, I just want make sure you know that in no way implies that they are even comparable to the Hakkapeliittas in the context of "[i]the debate[i]".

(Sorry EricssonBoi, I know that may not have been what you actually meant, but they way you phrased your post seemed to suggest otherwise.)

Thanks for clarifying..
What i meant was.. the next best bang for the buck compared to the Hakkapeliittaswas are G02's.. If i had the extra $200+ to spend on tires.. i would do so... but i'd rather spend that money on something else.. such as towards a new phone

As someone mentioned above, they paid $175(taxes included or not) a peice. I paid $125 taxes in. $50 difference * 4 = $200. I havn't tried the Hakkapelittas, but If i had the money, i would.

Posted by: Tennoh

Nokian Hakka's aren't that expensive. While I was searching around I got quotes for Hakka 2 for $145/pc for 195/60/15. Hakka RSi were $135 for same size. Pretty reasonable for good tires.

Posted by: wamtt

I did a lot of research before i purchase the Nokian Hakkapeliitta 2. I find that a lot of other well known brand put a lot of their money in advertising, where Nokian put their money to make excellent tire at very good price. If you use Nokian winter tire before, you will know why they are money well spend. There are not a lot of shops that carries Nokian Winter tires. Even the one that does, they sell out very fast.

I paid $175 taxes and installation included (very reasonable for my size, 205/60/16). When i did my research, the X-ice were a few dollars less per tire.

Posted by: hotch

Quote:

Originally posted by WoNGsTeR
why? pls explain? dont just give us an answer with no explaination? what tires you using now and your reason?

They're generic studded snows, the blizzaks were much better in the snow, plus they're not noisy like studdeds

Posted by: Stock R

Back from the dead. Winter is coming soon. Good for those who are about to purchase winters. Sticky again?

Posted by: hotch

I've decided I'm going to try Pirelli P500 (all seasons), and get them siped this year

My car (volvo 850r), is front wheel drive with traction control, so this should give me a good combination of snow and dry grip.

Posted by: ElvaSoShexai

i've never used winter tires in my life before... not on my camry or my sienna...

sometimes i do comtemplate getting them... i was gonna get some toyo g-02+ last year. but i held off... and had no problems driving on my all seasons in toronto or waterloo <-> toronto (if any of you remember that icy + slippery day on valentine's... i made 3 1-way trips TO <-> waterloo that day on all seasons with no problem)

although i might end up getting the G-02+ this year since my brother will also be driving the car and he's not too experienced yet

Posted by: bembol

This winter will be my third on my Kumho's IZEN's KW11...I love them except I should've went with the higher speed rating...KW17

I'll definately upgrade next year.