vB Easy Archive - Treo650 better on Cingular or Sprint?

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Treo650 better on Cingular or Sprint?
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Posted by: FlyPenFly

I guess it depends on covereage but in terms of data plans and data speeds... EDGE vs. Sprint...

I know EDGE GPRS still has the same latency problems as GPRS although better throughput... how's the data on Sprint?

Posted by: PINHEAD

If coverage is equal between the two in your area, and you don't need to travel outside of the US with the phone, i suggest the Sprint phone. The rate plans and data plans are less expensive, and the data speed seems more consistent. You won't have quite as good battery life on the CDMA phone, but with the stunning battery life I'm getting on my unlocked Treo 650 (using it with T-Mobile) I don't think losing a little battery life would have much of an effect on you. If I hadn't gotten such a good deal on this phone, I would have moved to Sprint as well.

Posted by: Quake97

I would agree with pinhead. I'm with Sprint and its great! I always thought not being able to take the phone with me internationally would be a problem, but I haven't gone anywhere in the last three years except for Canada.

Sprint's plans are cheaper and their unlimited data is super cheap. I've had decent dealings with their customer service so far, but nothing that should have been tough for them anyway. Cingular has a bigger native coverage area though, so that's an advantage on their side. With Sprint you can roam on Verizon for free for $5 a month, but you cannot use more than 50% of your minutes while roaming.

Joe

Posted by: cmc0

I would have to disagree and say go with the Cingular GSM version. Why, because EDGE is defintly faster than 1xRTT, plus Cingular's digital GSM/GPRS/EDGE coverage covers more areas than Sprit's 1x coverage area. I'll have to admit, Sprint does have a little better pricing on voice than Cingular (T-Mobile has them both topped, but T-Mo only offers slower GPRS), but with the GSM version, you get the freedom of SIM cards and international useage

Posted by: Quake97

From my experience, 1xRTT is way faster than EDGE.

Joe

Posted by: cmc0

Quote:

Originally posted by Quake97
From my experience, 1xRTT is way faster than EDGE.

Joe

I doubt that, most tests put EDGE faster than 1xRTT, RTT tests are always at a 70-90kbps level while EDGE is around 120-140kbps. 1xEVDO on the other hands easily beats out EDGE.

Posted by: FlyPenFly

I actually am not worried at all about international service... I could just get a cheap gsm prepaid when i travel abroad which is pretty much never

I am worried about latency so I went a sprint store and tried out today. Wow. Its practically usable.

To be fair, i'm gonna try cingular tomorrow but since the latency was my biggest problem with gprs, i am doubting it will be any good.

Posted by: sspooner

Forget Sprint. I was with them, with a 650 for 3 weeks. During that time they managed to screw up everything they possibly could.

One of my friends did the same as me and returned the phone after 2 weeks and went to Cingular instead.

EDGE is faster than 1xRTT, way faster. I've seen 180k out of Cingular, the max I ever saw on Sprint was 107k.

MMS is real MMS on Cingular, not the weird incompatible stuff Sprint uses.

SMS goes overseas, nada with Sprint.

With Sprint, you can't take your phone anywhere abroad (well, anywhere not CDMA based)

Sprint don't care about their customers, I called 8 times, went to the Store 3 times (not including the time I got the refund) and not a single person ever called me. EVER.

Cingular call you back and actually fix the problem.

Sprint cater to the lower end of the market, people with lesser credit ratings. This is probably good for sprint because they mop up a lot of lower revenue folks. it's bad for me, because they don't really have the capability to fix data problems, or get SMS working for example.

The sprint store near me has an armed guard on the door, I can see they need it.

Forget Sprint, you'll never be more annoyed. Pay the extra money and get some quality, from Cingular.

Posted by: letsgoflyers81

Quote:

Originally posted by cmc0
I doubt that, most tests put EDGE faster than 1xRTT, RTT tests are always at a 70-90kbps level while EDGE is around 120-140kbps. 1xEVDO on the other hands easily beats out EDGE.

Quake97 said from his experience, not "everyone will have the same results as me." I very frequently get over 100 kbps on my Sprint Treo. Every single time I've tethered it to my computer with Bluetooth I've gotten 115 kbps. I've seen many reports of people on EDGE not getting speeds any faster than 1xRTT. It's true that EDGE has a higher theoretical maximum throughput but that doesn't mean that tests will always put EDGE over 1xRTT and that real world use will offer the same results.

If speed is the number one priority then I'd probably go with Cingular because EDGE can be faster. But you have to look at coverage where you live and/or travel too. Not to mention Sprint is definitely cheaper, not just on airtime but data too. Cingular's unlimited MediaWorks package is $25 and their PDA package is $45 (if they make you buy that for the Treo 650), meanwhile Sprint's Vision Packs are only $15. Bottom line, if coverage is equal, you have to decide if speed or cost is more important to you.

Posted by: Pavehawk

I made my decision based on cost. I've been with Sprint since 2000 and the service for me in my area has always been good. I also hadn't upgraded my phone since 2000 so I was looking for something with a reasonable data plan where I wasn't going to have to count my kilobytes.

I was looking at getting an SE S710A over Christmas. However when the phone was finally released in late February it cost as much as a Treo 650. At that point it became a Sprint or Cingular question. With two lines of service the monthly expense for me was going to be at least $56 more a month ($672 a year) with Cingular. I came to this conclusion by trying to build a similar package with Cingular that I was looking at with Sprint. While I couldn't get an exact match, the details of both plans were very similar.

500 Shared Anytime Minutes
Unlimited Nights & Weekends
7-7 Nights & Weekends
Free PCS to PCS calling
Vision Pictures Pack w/unlimited data
100 SMS a month

To get anything comparable to this with Cingular was more than I was willing pay per month. Also note that my estimate above was based on unlimited MediaNet on both phones at the $24.99 per line cost. If you assume that Cingular forces you into the $39.99 PDA plan for a Treo, that's $15 more a month on top of the $56 difference. That's $852 a year difference for me.

Since I didn't need international capability and almost every place that I go has decent Sprint coverage it seemed pretty straight forward to me.

But like other folks have said, there's multiple reasons for picking one carrier over another. Everyone needs to find what's more important to them and chose based on that.

Posted by: FlyPenFly

I think I am probably going with Sprint because throughput might be better on EDGE but latency seems to be much much worse on GPRS.

In terms of resale of the phone though, GSM is a much better choice. I went to Cingular to try it out today but they didn't even have any, the store is so ghetto here. SPrint is decked out with ALL the phones they carry but the Cingular here was ridiculous.

Also, I think as a grad TA I would get some sort of discount for being an employee of the University of Florida and thus an employee of the state of Florida.

One concern for Sprint users, when you BT tether to the laptop, do you get overage fees?

Posted by: letsgoflyers81

Quote:

Originally posted by FlyPenFly

One concern for Sprint users, when you BT tether to the laptop, do you get overage fees?

Sprint doesn't charge for tethering. Technically it's not allowed by the Terms of Service but it's not within the ToS to charge. They reserve the right to cancel Vision. However unless you start using a ton of data, they don't care. Supposedly the magic number is around 700 mb a month. Use less than that while tethered and they won't care.

Posted by: sspooner

Quote:

Originally posted by FlyPenFly
I think I am probably going with Sprint because throughput might be better on EDGE but latency seems to be much much worse on GPRS.

In terms of resale of the phone though, GSM is a much better choice. I went to Cingular to try it out today but they didn't even have any, the store is so ghetto here. SPrint is decked out with ALL the phones they carry but the Cingular here was ridiculous.

Also, I think as a grad TA I would get some sort of discount for being an employee of the University of Florida and thus an employee of the state of Florida.

One concern for Sprint users, when you BT tether to the laptop, do you get overage fees?

Actually, I used both the Sprint and Cingular 650's and EDGE is faster at connecting than 1xRTT and I can't tell much of a difference with latency.

Posted by: sspooner

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1757450,00.asp

Talks about data speeds and latency issues.

Posted by: FlyPenFly

Thanks for the article. I really wish there was a good Cingular around here so I can try it out. But I used to surf on class10 GPRS and the latency issue along with reliability in the connection left a very sour taste in my mouth.

While trying the sprint phone at the store everything worked like it should wokr.

Posted by: Quatre

I'm trying out a Treo 650 on Sprint until my SE s710a comes and i switch to cingular. I also have vzw so I dont need both cdma carriers and i have to stay with vzw for fam and friends including my gf. and besides vzw has ev-do sprint doesnt'.

I'm a little worried hearing some things about the web on cingular and/or using the treo 650 as I actually am grandfathered into to get unlimited web free on sprint for plan 100/mo or over. It works pretty fast and good but I just assumed it would be better and faster on cingular with edge.

I think my area has really good cingular coverage even better then the very decent sprint converage so I will be fine and the main thing for me is that fact that cingular being gsm and sim card based is that I can switch phone with ease by swapping the sim out.

This alone makes it beat out sprint especially for the Treo 650 a phone you might not want to use all the time and/or that you can use just as a non connected pda without the sim in? and then if i really want to use the web or phone on it i can put sim in.

price is an important factor but I was so not wanting to lose my free web on sprint that i didnt lower my plan even though we're not using close to the minutes and there is no rollover so even with higher priced web/data plan on cingular my bill will still be lower then sprint with a lower minute plan.

I do like the Treo 650 and think that it will be just as good or better on cingular then sprint and i'm switching either way because sprint has no good phones and gsm sim swapability is such a draw for anyone that likes to switch it up with phones.

Posted by: Schwartz

Quote:

A quick glance at the day's results on http://www.dslreports/mspeed puts Verizon and Sprint in first and second position with speeds of approximately 200+kb/s.

ATT/Cingular comes in at about 80-107kb/s.

T-Mobile brings up the rear at 30kb/s.

Granted this is just the day's readings, but these are real world readings and not some theoretical limit. Don't get me wrong, I prefer GSM/GPRS/EDGE because I travel internationally a lot, but if I were purely domestic, I definitely think hard about getting the Sprint version. I had Sprint in 2000-2002 and coverage was good in the approximately 12-15 states/cities that I travelled to.

Posted by: sspooner

Quote:

Originally posted by Schwartz
A quick glance at the day's results on http://www.dslreports/mspeed puts Verizon and Sprint in first and second position with speeds of approximately 200+kb/s.

ATT/Cingular comes in at about 80-107kb/s.

T-Mobile brings up the rear at 30kb/s.

Granted this is just the day's readings, but these are real world readings and not some theoretical limit. Don't get me wrong, I prefer GSM/GPRS/EDGE because I travel internationally a lot, but if I were purely domestic, I definitely think hard about getting the Sprint version. I had Sprint in 2000-2002 and coverage was good in the approximately 12-15 states/cities that I travelled to.

Odd results, since the MAX theorectial 1xRTT speed is 144kbs, and MAX EDGE is 384kbs.

I suspect some of the carriers are cacheing this page and possibly compressing the data.

My concern with CDMA is that over the next year or so the big carriers will move to fixed-mobile convergence, spearheaded by a move by BT in the UK, with all major carriers having plans (even in the US) to follow within two years.

No one is working on CDMA signalling for this, only GSM.

I work for one of those FMC compaines and am amazed I hear so much about GSM and nothing about CDMA.

http://nordicgroup.us/ssub/data.htm

Posted by: Quake97

Like letsgoflyers said, theoretical means nothing in the real world. Yes, EDGE is supposed to be faster, but in the real world it's not. Check out some threads on here and on treocentral.com for actual results from others. I constantly see 1xRTT beating out EDGE. There are some that get great rates with EDGE, but it's the exception not the rule.

You know how companies claim 5 hours of battery life on a laptop? We all know that's not even close. They do those tests in lab environments with the display setting at almost dark and nothing going on. I'm sure EDGE can hit the theoretical max when there's no one on the network at 4am.

Joe

Posted by: sspooner

Quote:

Originally posted by Quake97
Like letsgoflyers said, theoretical means nothing in the real world. Yes, EDGE is supposed to be faster, but in the real world it's not. Check out some threads on here and on treocentral.com for actual results from others. I constantly see 1xRTT beating out EDGE. There are some that get great rates with EDGE, but it's the exception not the rule.

You know how companies claim 5 hours of battery life on a laptop? We all know that's not even close. They do those tests in lab environments with the display setting at almost dark and nothing going on. I'm sure EDGE can hit the theoretical max when there's no one on the network at 4am.

Joe

:-D Theoretical means nothing : News to me that one can actually surpass a theoretical limit.

Perhaps I can surpass the theoretical speed of light and get to work before I left my house. I drive a Porsche C2 which is fast, but that would be way cool.

Come on guys, even in real world senarios, in my experience, and remember I said I have used BOTH Sprint Treo 650 and Cingular Treo 650, I can say honestly that I see much greater data rates on Cingular.

In the bay area where I live, I consistently see above 128kbs, I have seen near 200kbs (in the early AM). - yup, 200kbs, the absolute MAX 1xRTT can do it 144kbs

For the 3 weeks I had a Treo650 on Sprint I never saw more than 107kbs, in the early AM.

Having said that, 107kbs is pretty good utilization of what they have availble, which is exactly 144kbs.

Maybe I'm lucky and happen to live near an underused Cingular tower and a oversubscribed Sprint tower, but what you are saying makes zero sense to me on any level, and I'm a guy writing software specifically for cellphones.

Oh, yeah, and my Apple laptop does get 5 hours battery life.

:-)

Posted by: Quatre

So you think Treo 650 would be a good combo on cingular with my SE s710a?

i have a Palm m515 and looking to upgrade it. Instead of getting a non connected pda nad having to connect it with wifi or bt with another device to connect to the internet. i figured mine as well get a pda phone on cingular that i can use as a non connected pda and then pop my sim in when i want to use it as a phone or go online with it.

I like and am used to palm os and realize tha the major limitation that pocketpc based pda/phone doesnt' have is that it can only use 1 prog at a time.

But I am waiting for the Mpx300 for ms/pocketpc whatever based pda phone otherwise i'd get the Siemens SX66 now as it has wifi but it isnt' Edge so id' rather get the treo 650 now and wait for the mpx300 and at least they are diff os, so it wont be stupid to hav them both.

prob is s710a and treo 650 aren't flip/clamshell which i like, though mpx300 will be and dual hinged at that, what would be a good clamshell on cingular to complement/use in combination/ switchign between the s710a?

i guess moto razr or maybe import nec n840 but thats getting spensive.

maybe the moto mpx220 for flip smartphone combo, but not woth it with the 300 coming

what would be the best trio of phones with diff forms and features/abilities to complement the s710a?

Posted by: sspooner

Quote:

Originally posted by Quatre
So you think Treo 650 would be a good combo on cingular with my SE s710a?

i have a Palm m515 and looking to upgrade it. Instead of getting a non connected pda nad having to connect it with wifi or bt with another device to connect to the internet. i figured mine as well get a pda phone on cingular that i can use as a non connected pda and then pop my sim in when i want to use it as a phone or go online with it.

I like and am used to palm os and realize tha the major limitation that pocketpc based pda/phone doesnt' have is that it can only use 1 prog at a time.

But I am waiting for the Mpx300 for ms/pocketpc whatever based pda phone otherwise i'd get the Siemens SX66 now as it has wifi but it isnt' Edge so id' rather get the treo 650 now and wait for the mpx300 and at least they are diff os, so it wont be stupid to hav them both.

prob is s710a and treo 650 aren't flip/clamshell which i like, though mpx300 will be and dual hinged at that, what would be a good clamshell on cingular to complement/use in combination/ switchign between the s710a?

i guess moto razr or maybe import nec n840 but thats getting spensive.

maybe the moto mpx220 for flip smartphone combo, but not woth it with the 300 coming

what would be the best trio of phones with diff forms and features/abilities to complement the s710a?

I have an MPX300, also an HP6315, and while they are prettier in the display area, the stability leaves ALOT to be desired.

The MPX I have has been relegated to a shelf, along with a HP6315, a Moto E680, an SEP900 and various other 'smart' devices.

The 650 is my favorite so far, it's the most stable, and has that nice speedy class 10 edge connection.

The MPX always turned heads, but it was just too embarrassing to have to reset the darn thing to show folks. WiFi was nice, but sucked the battery down too much.

Shame, I put out a fair amount of cash for the MPX, and the 6315 for that matter, not to mention the e680... oh well, I should sell some on ebay I think.

Posted by: Quatre

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows 98; PalmSource/hspr-H102; Blazer/4.0) 16;320x320)

this cingular version of the tre0 650 is much faster on these forums just for one example

Posted by: Quatre

Yeah, I have an SE s710a with $25/mo unlimited web though text and media mail seems to be a certain # though its mostly enough that you wont go over it. They should have rollover text and media mail.

I got the Treo 650 with a second line and at first they did try to sell me the $45 data plan and I declined. All I had to do with my Treo was register my media net or whatever online to make a login and pass and then fill that in on the Treo and i have web.

It seems to be faster then the web on sprint and it **** well should be. I had free unlimited web which included unlimited pic mail and text msgs but video was extra. Vision was free with a plan $100 and up when I got it but they longer offer that but still $25 for Cingular is high enough I can't imagine a $45 addon for something I had for free on sprint.

I got the the current special of 1100 min for 69.99 where you usually get like only 800 min or something for that price. That is the lowest plan you can get to get second line for 9.99 instead of 19.99? I also had second line on sprint for free with the $100 plan.

So even with a lower start plan of 69.99, with the 9.99 extra line and the $25 data I'm still at $105 before taxes about what I was with sprint. I was hoping to lower the cost of my plan to below $100, oh well, cingular seems to be the most expensive even more so then vzw? but i'm stuck with them as my wife wont leave it and we have fam and friends on it.

So there was no reason to have both cdma carriers so for my own pick I'd rather have cingular where I can switch phones as I please with sim card and tmob though cheaper has the slowest data speeds of all 4 carriers so i couldn't do it and besides the Sharp phones though they still didn't get the TM-200 they dont seem to have as good as domestically released phones as Cingular with the razr exclusive etc.

I think VZW has the fastest data speeds as long as you have 1 of i think still only 3 ev-do phones and in an area that supports it. Then Cingular is next fastest with edge , then sprint and like i said tmob in last speed wise.

How do you test your speed on the Treo 650? you mentioned you now get 140kbps. How do you check if your areas has EDGE? can you tell on the phone or i guess by what speed you get on the phone though still not sure how to check that. I'd imagine in a big market like the Philadelphia area they have edge in place.

I noticed though that the Sprint version of the Treo 650 had a brighter and whiter screen. Is this normal or did i just get a really got sprint model and a bad cingular model?

Also I kind of liked the blue color of the Sprint version, so I switched the blue batter cover onto my cingular version and it now has kind of a 2 tone look.

I can beam stuff between my SE s710a and the Treo and its great that the treo uses SD cards we already have for digi cam which was convenient for putting a pic as wallpaper. while my s710a uses the mem stick duos that my sony psp uses.

I also hope to beam everything from my old Palm m515 to my treo 650 and once i get another cingular phone for my wife I'll put the second line sim in that and just use my treo as a non connected palm and pop my main sim in when i need to use it as phone or connect to the net.

Theoretically couldn't i just leave sim in my s710a and connect the treo through bt to it to then connect the treo to the net? do i have to dial #777 or something for tethering on the s710a.

For this use I only wish that the treo had wifi for using it in house or at hotspots and without the need to put the sim in or connect with bt to phone. I was waiting for the Mpx300 and almost anxious to import it, but according to the guys post above he says it and another HP pocketpc based phone was unstable and he doesnt' even use.

So I'm prob sticking with the Treo and i'm used to palm from the m515, so its a phone and pda upgrade in one. Seems i'll be able to not only beam everything from my old palm m515 but also between the treo and the s710a as it has infrared as well or you can suse the bt to transfer between those 2. And I will be able to get beams from my wifes toshiba pocket pc.

I was thinking of a Dell Axim which maybe I can still do, as pocket pc based seems to be better for non phone pda's but maybe I'll also just wait for the Mpx300.

I was thinking about the Siemens sx66 since it has wifi and is still on the cingular site but the store rep said its recalled/discontinued. But it doesn't have edge.

Speaking of discontinued the mpx220 isn't on the site anymore and says discontinued on phonescoop. Is it worth getting mostly for my wife to use for mobile to mobile , txt and media msging over say the cheaper z500a? prob not as again its prob not as stable being a smartphone even though i like the looks of it better then z500a but it will be significantly more costly to buy without a plan. Can get the z500a on amazone for 200 without plan and thats enough though she wanted the razr its not worth it and doesnt have video so i'd rather wait for the new razr by the end of 05?