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T-Mobile hiptop to Fido. Is it possible yet?

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Posted by: leventhal

Hello folks,

I see a sidekick I (black and white) for sale cheap. It's well within my price range and the people at Fido said that I'd be able to activate the hiptop services even though I didn't buy the device from them.

Now.. I hear that the T-Mobile devices don't let you configure proxy info. How hard would it be to flash a T-Mobile device into a Fido device, assuming that I have a developer key?


Posted by: SameGuy

Looking for similar info. A friend no longer uses his SKII and will just send it to me gratis, once he gets Tmo to unlock it.

I understand there are hassles and caveats, but for a free SKII I'd be willing to do the hassles!

What are the exact steps involved in getting it working on Fido, including data? A search here proves fruitless.


Posted by: leventhal

If you're able to get it unlocked by Tmo you're a step ahead of me. I'm buying it and don't have a T-Mobile account so can't get them to unlock it for me. I'll probably have to take it someplace and pay to get it unlocked.

I just checked out the developer forum and found a post that left me confused but hopeful.

Quote:
Not to disagree with Joe, but there are actually two ways a hiptop can be unlocked. The first is it can be unlocked to be able to use a different SIM. In know that T-Mobile devices are locked to T-Mobile SIMs. If you want to use a different SIM, you have to call T-Mobile and request an unlock code that you enter into the hiptop.

As for the APN, this is dependent on the SIM you are using. So if you are using the device with a T-Mobile SIM, the APN is fixed. But if you are using a European SIM, you need to use a different APN. The APN basically follows the SIM you are using and the country you are using it in. So changing the APN will only prevent your device from connecting if you are using it with a T-Mobile SIM. Otherwise you may have to change the APN to get your device to connect.

If Acer is using an E+ SIM in an E+ hiptop, everything should be fine as-is. If not, he may need to change the APN.


It seems that if you get the phone unlocked, stick in a Fido SIM, call Fido and get them to turn on hiptop access on your account, you can then set the APN setting to point to Fido's APN and it should work. What has me worried is that the original poster mentioned that the keyboard shortcut used to edit the APN information was disabled in the E+ version.

I've left a message asking of the T-Mobile version is restricted that way. Hopefully they get back to me before the auction on that sidekick ends.


Posted by: leventhal

Here's a very helpful reply from the Danger forum that has left me a little less hopeful but I'm glad I got it.

Quote:
Again, I'll defer to anyone from Danger that can give an official answer, but I know a couple of people who have done this and their results have been far less than optimal.

The hiptop dataservice "backend" servers appear to be independent of one another - i.e., the Fido backend and the T-Mobile backend, other than sharing data center floorspace, do not appear to be otherwise connected in any way. (Logic: Usernames are not unique across carriers, and the developer API HiptopConnection won't talk across carriers).

The specific OS on a device defines several servers that the device connects to - I'll spare the gory details of how things work (it's 3am, sorry I'm not as verbose as I normally am Smile ) but the Hiptop connection to Danger's backend is much more akin to a VPN-type connection than to a normal GPRS data connection. These servernames aren't really changable (that's an understatement) so a t-mobile device with a t-mobile OS are going to talk to the t-mobile backend.

SIM-Unlocking the hiptop to use another carrier's SIMcard will really only allow you access to that carrrier's phone and SMS functions, unless that carrier has a special data connection to Danger's servers.

The means for example the gentleman in the UK who has an unlocked Hiptop won't be able to use data services because his carrier doesn't have any way for the hiptop to communicate with Danger.

in Fido's case, they have a connection to Danger's service, but since the t-mobile device wants to connect to t-mobile's version of the backend, the device, when it's used in this kind of configuration, will actually talk to t-mobile's data service even though you're paying Fido for the privilege. I know of two people who have done this, and their results have both been:

- The device has a Fido phone number and used Fido's SMS
- The device had a T-Mobile username and a T-Mobile email address (tmail.com not fidohiptop.ca)
- The User paid Fido for data service but used T-Mobile's backend network (without paying T-Mobile)
- Fido's customer support couldn't access that user's data account but T-Mobile's support could
- the device retained all the configuration and service restrictions of the t-mobile OS ringtones and email quotas and so on)

The biggest issue I have with this setup is that you're using T-Mobile's data backend without paying for it (I know you're paying Fido but they're not paying T-Mobile, if you see my point) and they're probably not likely to guarantee to want to service your account if they find you using their backend for free, so there's a chance that somewhere along the line this whole setup could stop working and you'd really not be in any position to do anything about it.

For what it's worth, the 2 people I know that have done this wound up selling their T-Mobile devices and buying Fido ones instead.

It's really much more of an issue than changing the APN. Changing the APN will change where, in your carrier's network, you try to connect to the Danger backend, but the way the hiptop OS works, that APN really has almost nothing to do with the servers that the device tries to contact once it's online (things like the dispatcher, the IM and browser proxy servers, etc).

Again, I could be completely wrong on this and would love to know an official answer, but my experience (or at least those of people who I know) have been very negative in this area.

If anyone has an unlocked Fido hiptop that they want to sell or trade to me so I can experiment with this on a more personal level, please let me know and I'll try it out myself, but I would have to say that with access to the information that I have at my disposal, this really isn't going to work out they way you want it to.

Joe



Posted by: leventhal

Here's a reply on the forum from Danger support.

Quote:
Each Carrier uses their own specified software on their devices. Even if you change the APN to connect to your favorite network, you will likely see the following problems/issues:

1. The device WILL connect to a Carrier Partner's Service through Your GSM/GPRS network. Results may vary, please check that you have the correct APN and if needed username and password for that APN or network.

2. You WILL have the other Carrier Partner's Email address, NOT your carrier email address. i.e username@othercarrier.com rather than username@mycarrier.com

3. There are features specific to the carrier which may or may not appear on the device. Catalog applications and Ringtones will vary between carriers.

4. The device will receive the Carrier Partner's Over-the-Air updates, rather than your Carrier over-the-air updates.

5. You will NOT be able to access the DESKTOP INTERFACE, as they will likely be on the other Carrier Partner's Service. i.e. Desktop Interface for T-Mobile customers can only be accessed if they log in to MyT-Mobile.com.

6. **MOST IMPORTANTLY** Since the Device is pointing to another Carrier, you will not be able to receive help involving the Danger Service such as password resets, Desktop Interface help or issues which involve carrier assistance with the device. Since all our carriers use of our support tools are limited to their own customers only.

Lastly, because the device is carrier specific, as an example, If you are no longer a T-Mobile customer and decide to use your device with another network, your account with T-Mobile will become inactive for obvious reasons thus NOT allowing you to connect to the Danger Service. The phone will still work (Voice) but such things as email, web browsing, basically anything involved with sending or receiving data will no longer work.

If you feel you have the correct APN settings in your unlocked Hiptop and can't connect to the Danger Servers, it is probably being restricted on that carrier's network.

Hope that helps...



Posted by: looneeii

As it stands (as it has been since Nov 2004), simply getting the SKII unlocked from T-Mobile and running it on the danger.fido.ca APN functions in all it's glory.




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