vB Easy Archive - CDMA or GSM

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CDMA or GSM
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Posted by: Ontario Guy

I am currently nearing the end of my contract with Bell.

I am wondering if it is worth it to hold on to my existing (crappy) audiovox 8600 phone, ride out the contract, then jump over to Rogers on the GSM network.

Here is the thing:
I live in Oshawa, stay around the GTA, and travel the odd time to Kingston. I don't know if anyone knows the Bath area, but Bell gets no service out there. I was down there visiting the parents last weekend, and my father just left Telus for Rogers, and he got full reception when we were in Bath. I assume it is the network.
What are the advantages of staying with CDMA then?

The next question - does anyone have any idea when Cell Phone number portability will be available? I would rather keep my number than spend a few hundred dollars on all knew business cards.

thanks.
M

Posted by: jase88

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ontario Guy

I am currently nearing the end of my contract with Bell.

I am wondering if it is worth it to hold on to my existing (crappy) audiovox 8600 phone, ride out the contract, then jump over to Rogers on the GSM network.

Here is the thing:
I live in Oshawa, stay around the GTA, and travel the odd time to Kingston. I don't know if anyone knows the Bath area, but Bell gets no service out there. I was down there visiting the parents last weekend, and my father just left Telus for Rogers, and he got full reception when we were in Bath. I assume it is the network.
What are the advantages of staying with CDMA then?

The next question - does anyone have any idea when Cell Phone number portability will be available? I would rather keep my number than spend a few hundred dollars on all knew business cards.

thanks.
M

Does your current plan have per second billing? If so, you will lose this feature if you move to another carrier (except Fido). Keep this in mind if you decide to switch.

The Kingston area uses 800MHz CDMA, which should provide improved range and in-building coverage. In terms of Bath...if you spend time there and it's imperative that you get coverage, then perhaps a change is in order. Otherwise, as you're no doubt already aware, Bell provides excellent coverage throughout the GTA, Oshawa and along the 401 to Kingston. Moving to another carrier, you risk losing service where you already know it works well for you. All carriers suffer with bad coverage areas. It's just a matter of finding a carrier that works in most of the places you frequent.

Number portability will likely become available in Q1 or Q2 2006. It already exists for landline users (ie. switching from Bell to Rogers Home Phone).

Posted by: lcohen999

I really think that the difference between Rogido and Bell in terms of coverage is minimal.

Like said before, each network has its dead spots, the question is, why do you want to leave bell.

This whole I need GSM because I am thinking about considering to maybe, one day go to Europe because my GSM will work in Europe but I woudl never use it because of the roaming charges is a little odd.

Use the phone with a plan that works for you and the coverage, CDMA/GSM. Unless you are really anal (like many GSM fanboys) you will not really notice a big difference.

Posted by: VTECMAN

Quote:

Originally Posted by lcohen999

I really think that the difference between Rogido and Bell in terms of coverage is minimal.

Like said before, each network has its dead spots, the question is, why do you want to leave bell.

This whole I need GSM because I am thinking about considering to maybe, one day go to Europe because my GSM will work in Europe but I woudl never use it because of the roaming charges is a little odd.

Use the phone with a plan that works for you and the coverage, CDMA/GSM. Unless you are really anal (like many GSM fanboys) you will not really notice a big difference.

Or.. you could say that cdma fanboys basically say what you did in the above post.

Posted by: lcohen999

Quote:

Originally Posted by VTECMAN

Or.. you could say that cdma fanboys basically say what you did in the above post.

very true, i ment to put both

use what works for you, regardless of CDMA/GSM, any where in Canada it depends on the coverage in the areas you frequent, nothing more

Posted by: manuelj43

Have you considered iDEN? It's got really good reception, other than my basement, i haven't seen an area with bad reception.

Posted by: lcohen999

why would he want iDEN if he has no one to iDEN with?

That is like buying one 10-4 with no one to talk too.....

Posted by: casualsuede

Quote:

Originally Posted by lcohen999

Going to Europe for a vacation is NOT a reason to get a GSM phone. I have a Philips fone, but I would rather rent a phone than pay for the incredulous roaming rates and email my contacts my temp number.

If I were to move to Europe, I would still not get a GSM phone here. Europe has migrated to UMTS. Why get a silly EDGE phone when you can get the latest and greatest in Europe?

Posted by: lcohen999

Quote:

Originally Posted by casualsuede

I agree, what I was saying is that is why people decide to leave CDMA for GSM.

If you stay in North America it is redundant, but people do it any ways.

I guarantee you that Rogers/Fido sales rep use it as part of their sales pitch, and people fall for it.

Once again, pick based on price and coverage in the areas you frequent.

I am with Bell for that reason. There is no where that I go in N.A where I need a phone and can't use it.

If I'm that deperate to use a phone in Europe, I'll buy a cheap fido phone or pre-paid when I get over the ocean. Very simple

Posted by: biffs

If you dont have a reason to switch, then dont bother.

however, if you are looking to try a new network to see if it will work better, rogers is the logical choice. Plus, in many cases you get a better deal as a new customer with rogers as opposed to an existing customer with bell.

Talk to people who use a rogers phone in that area you travel to, and ask them how the seeg is. if its what you want, then make the switch

Posted by: manuelj43

Quote:

Originally Posted by lcohen999

why would he want iDEN if he has no one to iDEN with?

That is like buying one 10-4 with no one to talk too.....

So your assuming that because iDEN isn't as popular here as it is in the U.S, that he won't have any use for iDEN's special features? It's not just the PTT, it's the phone too, their phones are extremely reliable aswell as their reception. I've had no complaints.

Posted by: dirtyjeffer

Quote:

Originally Posted by manuelj43

unfortunately, most of the IDEN phones are GINORMOUS!

Posted by: lcohen999

Quote:

Originally Posted by manuelj43

I'm sure not, but they are by design a nitche market phone, not for the masses, regardless of how good they are

Posted by: jase88

Quote:

Originally Posted by lcohen999

I'm sure not, but they are by design a nitche market phone, not for the masses, regardless of how good they are

I've never owned an iDEN phone. However, I do believe there is difference in marketing of the product here in Canada versus the U.S.

In the U.S, the iDEN phones are used by everyone: Individuals, business people, "blue collar" workers, etc. Whereas in Canada, I see the majority of users as contractors, field technicians, etc.

I suspect the difference is simply in how people here in Canada perceive the technology--how is has been presented to the public.

Posted by: Wirelezz

IDEN all the way !!

Posted by: manuelj43

It's just a third option, you don't necessarily have to use the PTT but it's there. Quality, and reception are excellent with the iDEN handsets and network.

As for the units being bigger than the average handset on any other network. Some of them really are, and need to be for the work crew. Nextel has been and will be releasing the really nice handsets that are really work horses and small. As for MiKE, they've got a little catching up to do on models available and the plans they offer. Seems like it takes Telus forever to release a handset although unlike Nextel, most units sold don't need any updating or repairs. MiKE's plans are pretty expensive and since they've set it up so that you have to pay extra for caller id, no per second billing, etc. it only got worse.

Posted by: Jonavin

I think the only major difference from a user's perspective is that, in North America, with GSM you can change phones 12 times a day if you wanted to. You can have switch from your pda smart phone and into a small candy bar or flip depending on what you feel when you wake up. You can swap phones with your friends, or use phones not officially support by your provider.

This is a mute point if Bell/Telus actually implemented R-UIM like they do in Asia. I just wished they did that here.

I have a suspicion that CDMA is more "safe" in terms of radiation. When my GSM phone rings it can affect radio and cordless phone reception. I didn't notice this with a GSM phone.

Posted by: jase88

Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry7250/4.0.0 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1)

I agree that there are safety concerns specifically with GSM.

In fact, I suspect this is why (among other reasons) that carriers are moving to UMTS (aka: WCDMA).

If a technology can interfere with your electronics, what's it doing to your head?!?

Posted by: dirtyjeffer

bell will also be marketing the 10-4 service to the "mass market".

Posted by: frankie5string

Quote:

Originally Posted by jase88

Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry7250/4.0.0 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1)

I agree that there are safety concerns specifically with GSM.

In fact, I suspect this is why (among other reasons) that carriers are moving to UMTS (aka: WCDMA).

If a technology can interfere with your electronics, what's it doing to your head?!?

That's not really RF that's causing the pulsing sound... it's the pulsing on/off of the transmitter. Audio/Video devices can be designed to shield against RF that CDMA produces (essentially white noise). But it's much harder to sheild against spurious noise with harmonics which engage and disengage at the transmitter.

I have an Aastra phone that can actually let you hear a CdmaOne or CDMA 1X (they both are very similar) phone call setup and the duration of the call... it sounds like:

Fssssssst....fsst fsst....shshshshshshshshshshs
^^^^^^ ^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Chan seek Snd req Audio channel stream

The first 3 bursts take about 1 second.

nifty, eh? It just sounds like white noise.

Posted by: breeyark

Yet another reason to move to GSM/Rogers is not necessarily roaming.....let's not forget about locked out features and capabilities, like Bluetooth and IrDA. Plus, phone selection is bigger, and more capable. It will cost you more, but like everything there is a trade off.

I agree that coverage these days is not really an issue. You just have to figure out if by giving up Bell, Rogers just dumps you into one of their dead spots. And vise versa.

Bree

Posted by: Jonavin

Quote:

Originally Posted by breeyark

Yet another reason to move to GSM/Rogers is not necessarily roaming.....let's not forget about locked out features and capabilities, like Bluetooth and IrDA. Plus, phone selection is bigger, and more capable. It will cost you more, but like everything there is a trade off.

I agree that coverage these days is not really an issue. You just have to figure out if by giving up Bell, Rogers just dumps you into one of their dead spots. And vise versa.

Bree

This isn't really a fair comment. There's nothing in that says a CDMA phone can't have Bluetooth or IrDA, or even R-UIM/SIM cards. It's just that Bell and Telus choose to not to make phones available that has these features.

And speaking of dead spots, my once wonderful Fido coverage is going to hell with the Rogers Convergence. All the places where I used to have great reception (yes better than Telus and Bell, I was on both before) is no longer there.

With wireless number portability coming in next year, I may be switching back to Bell/Telus. If only they would start using R-UIM. I'm not going through that hassle again.

Posted by: breeyark

J,

I agree with you. No one said those technical pieces of the puzzle are not present with CDMA. But, the business reality is that Bell and Telus have established a download model for ringtones, wallpapers and apps that nets them big cash. Brilliant as far as I am concerned, because they are taking advantage of the average users lack of technical expertise, and turning that into a profit machine that isn't there for the GSM provider. If I was an exec at Vodafone, I would be kicking myself thinking "why didn't I do that?".

I personally don't like the limited access to phone features, because, I am a geek head and understand how to take advantage of them. As are many others on this board. Which is why I wish I could be on Rogers (and might be, if I have my way....). But, I have to tip my hat to Bellus because people are paying for stuff they can get for free. And that, my friend, is freaking brilliant business savvy.

As I've said before, the only way to change the Bellus model is to complain and move until the dollars don't make sense for them anymore. But, they are doing a great job keeping people in the dark, and accepting. I admire them so much for that!

Bree

Posted by: dirtyjeffer

Quote:

Originally Posted by breeyark

But, I have to tip my hat to Bellus because people are paying for stuff they can get for free. And that, my friend, is freaking brilliant business savvy.

hehehe...you don't think Rogers makes a ton of additional revenue with their downloadable content?

just because some of their phones offer BT, it doesn't mean everyone will use it.

with the millions Rogers is losing every quarter, they may want to rethink their strategy as well...it can mean the difference to turning a profit (or at least breaking even), and losing a ton of money.

Posted by: nitzomoe

Quote:

Rogers is loosing money each quarter? Do you mean lost revenue cause im pretty sure they had operating profits since Q4

Posted by: dirtyjeffer

Quote:

Originally Posted by nitzomoe

Rogers is loosing money each quarter? Do you mean lost revenue cause im pretty sure they had operating profits since Q4

no, they have been losing money...as in a net loss.

Q1-05 was a loss of $46.0 million

Q4-04 was a loss of $15.5 million
Q3-04 was a gain of $64 million
Q2-04 was a gain of $5.5 million
Q1-04 was a loss of $64.8 million

they are far from making any money...their profit in Q3 simply offset the loss in Q1.

Posted by: jase88

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankie5string

It's RF. Not only does it produce a buzz sound, but it will actually interfere with electronics in close proximity. Yes, it sounds like a buzz because the transmitter is cycling through the time slots...but it's most certainly RF.

Posted by: breeyark

DJ,

Certainly Rogers makes far less than Bell with these downloads......all people are asking for is the opportunity to choose. You take away choice, and we don't like it. It's natural. Never said everyone will do it if they had BT, but those that can, would like to.

I took a quick look at their financials, and a look at the raw PNL at such a high level doesn't reveal the entire story, and certainly doesn't necessarily warrant a strategy change. Overall, yes, Rogers as a whole company posted a loss so far this year, but a far lower one than this time last year. This was because of the integration costs of Fido, but that was a planned expense. And, specific to it's wireless division, that played the very specific role of BOOSTING the net results of Rogers with a 47% gain in that division alone. That's not too shabby, considering they are still busy integrating Fido.

So, although net PNL for Rogers is a loss, they are overall doing better than last year, and their shining star is their wireless business. Looks like their strategy doesn't need much changing after all, at least from my quick look.

Bree

Posted by: ALLTEL KING

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ontario Guy

The next question - does anyone have any idea when Cell Phone number portability will be available? I would rather keep my number than spend a few hundred dollars on all knew business cards.
M

I thought wireless number portibility was available in Canada as well when it launched here in November of '03. Thats weird.

Posted by: dirtyjeffer

Quote:

Originally Posted by ALLTEL KING

I thought wireless number portibility was available in Canada as well when it launched here in November of '03. Thats weird.

where did you get that info from?

WNP hasn't been here since Nov 03...there will be discussions about it with the different carriers in september of this year...they will be discussion how to implement it and such...don't expect it to be available until late 06 at the earliest...my guess would be sometime in 07...the carriers have other things they would like to spend their money on first...customers would benefit from improved coverage more so than WNP.

Posted by: jase88

Quote:

Originally Posted by breeyark

Note that the Blackberry 7290, offered by Rogers, also has "crippled" bluetooth. It's therefore a myth that only CDMA providers lock out features.

While it may be crippled on the BB for security reasons...it's locked out nonetheless.

Posted by: breeyark

Interesting! Did not know that.....regardless, which leads to the core of what I was getting at.....I still have a choice. I can still slap a Rogers SIM into any GSM phone it supports on it's network and get the job done. In fact, I think you can still buy the RIM directly (the non-subsidized one...) and Rogers will still let you put it on their network, I'm assuming, and BT is enabled. I have no problem paying more to have that capability, Rogers knows that there are people like me, and they get my money. Since Bellus doesn't want my money, or the money of my friends and co-workers I make recommendations to, they don't get our business.

All I was pointing out to the person asking the question is that everything needs to be taken into account. They should be able to choose what they want to use based on features available, not Bellus. Flexibility is a great thing!

Bree

Posted by: Jonavin

Yeah I think that's the point. For no amount of money are you ever able to use a phone Bell does not approve of. It's about freedom.

Posted by: jase88

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jonavin

Yeah I think that's the point. For no amount of money are you ever able to use a phone Bell does not approve of. It's about freedom.

I understand the "freedom" point. I was addressing the myth that only CDMA carriers "cripple" their Bluetooth capabilities.