vB Easy Archive - Does RIM need to come out with a personal version of the BlackBerry?

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Does RIM need to come out with a personal version of the BlackBerry?
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Posted by: RIMarkable

I have been reading a lot of forums lately with feature wish lists for the next generation of BlackBerry devices and I am beginning to think that RIM should come out with a BlackBerry Personal Edition.

I understand the security concerns around putting fully functional Bluetooth, Wi-fi, digital cameras, and even removable media in to BlackBerries but I would have to imagine that most of these features aren't show stoppers for PDA users who may never connect a BlackBerry to a corporate BES. In fact, I believe that the lack of these features could be show stoppers for new potential BlackBerry customers that are already acustomed to these feartures on their existing devices.

I know that RIM dominates the wireless email market but they don't dominate the PDA market. In many cases BlackBerries are seen as inferior to Palm, and Windows Mobile devices less wireless email. I think that wireless email and phone capabilities will become standard on most PDAs kind of like how wifi and bluetooth have become standard on most laptops.

Will Research in Motion be able to capture BlackBerry converts ready to upgrade their Palm Pilots, HP Ipaqs, Dell Axims, etc. to wireless versions if BlackBerries don't come with more features? I would say yes when the only option for these converts to connect to corporate mail is BES. I am not so sure when connecting to corporate mail is not a priortiy or when they have choices other then BES.

That being said, maybe RIM should create a separte line of BlackBerry Devices that offer all the features that the other PDA manufactures are offering.

Posted by: martin_j001

This is a very interesting topic that I've wondered about a lot in the past year or so. It really depends on whether or not RIM is trying to compete with the devices in the "personal" market, and I personally don't think they are. RIM have really cornered the super secure email market with their devices, and most other phone/pda makers aren't trying to get in on this business that much at this time. It certainly would be interesting to see a "personal" blackberry though, with all some of the features you mention.

Posted by: GregGebhardt

I really think that RIM like the other MFGs is struggling to get new hardware out to keep their existing customers happy. I just can't see them taking the time for any non-secure "personal" units. Though it DOES sound good, I just don't think we are going to see it

Posted by: twizardt

I wish they would! I don't use my for (corporate business) and I really love the potential of the BB. They should make a vanilla BB for business and a loaded one for personal use and to compete with MS and their obvious warpath into the market.

Posted by: AlphaShark

I thought that is what the 7100 was designed for.

Posted by: AONEHOBO

I see my 7250 as a personal edition, I use it both for work and for personal but it is completely mine, and not part of a BES. I control it and do not have to worry about any policy established by the IT department. I forward mail both from work or from gmail and Comcast to it. How much more personal than that do you want. If by personal you mean easier to use, I still think that if you read through the forums available you will be up and running in no time. If what you want is more features, fine add them to what we have like full bluetooth functionality (if only the carriers dont disable them),if it is less security (hmmmmm then id say go to something else). I have need to connect to my machine in the office while I am out of the office, or my machine at home while away from home, and I would not wasnt less security in either case. I have only had mine 6 weeks and not only am i adicted but have gained so much knowledge that I am already helping out some of the newer guys coming along. As far as been able to compete with MS why bother, the BB is better, to compete would bring it down a notch.

Posted by: jase88

Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry7250/4.0.0 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1)

The are few things I'd want more in a Blackberry:

" Integrated spell checker.
" Ability to tether to my laptop for wireless data (can't do it on the 7250 yet)

Otherwise, I'm happy. It works for me.

Posted by: racarusotheoreo

Quote:

Originally Posted by tedya

I thought that is what the 7100 was designed for.

And it fails miserably.

Hence, my 7290GSM

Posted by: Mr Pink57

It would be cool if RIM did make a device like this. I think then they could get in to the younger generaton (mind you I am only 21) to go to their product say over a Sidekick maybe. Have things like AIM, Txt messaging, Pic caller id, and all that other fun stuff. I think there sales would go up much more then now.

pink

Posted by: twizardt

Quote:

Originally Posted by jase88

Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry7250/4.0.0 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1)

The are few things I'd want more in a Blackberry:

" Integrated spell checker.
" Ability to tether to my laptop for wireless data (can't do it on the 7250 yet)

Otherwise, I'm happy. It works for me.

We have an integrated spell checker on 7520.
Works really well too.

Posted by: RIMarkable

Quote:

Originally Posted by AONEHOBO

As far as been able to compete with MS why bother, the BB is better, to compete would bring it down a notch.

If Research in Motion intends to stay on top, they must compete with not only Microsoft, but Good, Intellisynch, and Visto as well. These other players, especially Microsoft, intend on dominating this market now that RIM has proven the business model.

I don't think many would have argued that Macintosh were better than Windows PCs back during the early and mid 90s. Heck, many won't argue that Macintosh aren't better than PCs today. Just remember that for every Macintosh that is sold, about 20 or so windows PCs are sold.

Posted by: ajg

I don't think it would take much to make it more Personal Edition like. One, I appreciate security, and hope they keep it that way, we do need a little more flexibility with regards to Bluetooth, maybe some WiFi, memory expansion, etc. Add in a few of the little things, like cameras and picture id, to make them more fun and I think you'd have a winner. I dunno... but I do think there is a lot of room for RIM to make their BB's cooler and more powerful.

Someone said a spell checker... YES! Give me some other themes to choose from, etc. Just because it is for business doesn't mean that it can be cool and asthetically pleasing. The problem I think will be for people in my age group. I'm 22 and am know as the guy who knows hip, but the Blackberry and any smartphone has a far way to go to be hip. They need iPod hip, not stodgy old business guy.

Posted by: astro_warp

Quote:

Originally Posted by RIMarkable

I have been reading a lot of forums lately with feature wish lists for the next generation of BlackBerry devices and I am beginning to think that RIM should come out with a BlackBerry Personal Edition.

I understand the security concerns around putting fully functional Bluetooth, Wi-fi, digital cameras, and even removable media in to BlackBerries but I would have to imagine that most of these features aren't show stoppers for PDA users who may never connect a BlackBerry to a corporate BES. In fact, I believe that the lack of these features could be show stoppers for new potential BlackBerry customers that are already acustomed to these feartures on their existing devices.

I know that RIM dominates the wireless email market but they don't dominate the PDA market. In many cases BlackBerries are seen as inferior to Palm, and Windows Mobile devices less wireless email. I think that wireless email and phone capabilities will become standard on most PDAs kind of like how wifi and bluetooth have become standard on most laptops.

Will Research in Motion be able to capture BlackBerry converts ready to upgrade their Palm Pilots, HP Ipaqs, Dell Axims, etc. to wireless versions if BlackBerries don't come with more features? I would say yes when the only option for these converts to connect to corporate mail is BES. I am not so sure when connecting to corporate mail is not a priortiy or when they have choices other then BES.

That being said, maybe RIM should create a separte line of BlackBerry Devices that offer all the features that the other PDA manufactures are offering.

Actually Blackberry is the worlds best selling PDA !

Posted by: twizardt

They need to stay proactive to keep it that way..

By Mobile Pipeline Staff

PDA shipments, which previously had been flat, increased dramatically in the first quarter of 2005 because of the growing popularity of always-on e-mail, according to a study released Wednesday by Gartner.

The growing popularity of always-on e-mail is also reflected by the fact that Research In Motion's (RIM's) BlackBerry devices vaulted into the lead as the best-selling PDA worldwide. BlackBerry unit sales increased 75 percent compared to the first quarter of 2004, the study says. It now commands 20.8 percent of the worldwide PDA market compared to 14.8 percent of the market a year ago.

PalmOne, which was the market leader a year ago, is now in second place with an 18 percent market share, according to Gartner. Hewlett-Packard, which was the second-leading vendor a year ago, is in third place. HP's market share shrank to 17.6 percent from 21 percent.

The study does not cover devices, such as smartphones, which have voice capabilities. It does, however, cover so-called wireless PDAs that don't have voice capabilities. Other studies have shown declining sales of PDAs, but those studies did not include devices with wireless, non-voice capabilities.

Posted by: astro_warp

Quote:

Originally Posted by twizardt

They need to stay proactive to keep it that way..

By Mobile Pipeline Staff

PDA shipments, which previously had been flat, increased dramatically in the first quarter of 2005 because of the growing popularity of always-on e-mail, according to a study released Wednesday by Gartner.

The growing popularity of always-on e-mail is also reflected by the fact that Research In Motion's (RIM's) BlackBerry devices vaulted into the lead as the best-selling PDA worldwide. BlackBerry unit sales increased 75 percent compared to the first quarter of 2004, the study says. It now commands 20.8 percent of the worldwide PDA market compared to 14.8 percent of the market a year ago.

PalmOne, which was the market leader a year ago, is now in second place with an 18 percent market share, according to Gartner. Hewlett-Packard, which was the second-leading vendor a year ago, is in third place. HP's market share shrank to 17.6 percent from 21 percent.

The study does not cover devices, such as smartphones, which have voice capabilities. It does, however, cover so-called wireless PDAs that don't have voice capabilities. Other studies have shown declining sales of PDAs, but those studies did not include devices with wireless, non-voice capabilities.

Depends what you mean by "....stay proactive......".

Some of us dont want Blackberry devices to turn in Cool [Tacky] , Application packed [unstable] and fun [juvenile] devices.

Picture id, cameras, photo messaging....bah humbug!

Really most business guys dont have time to mess about with setting up little pictures to pop up when someone calls or take photo's of fun nights in a hotel finalising a presentation for the next day.

I hate the latest batch of phones and pda's on the market. Everything is referred to as fun. Ooh ooh assign a picture to a name in your phone book and have fun seeing who's calling???!! Download fun ringtones or fun backgrounds and watch your friends roar with laughter. Huh? Whats that all about?? How is it fun and cool to spend ages setting up pictures for caller id and taking photo's with a phone. Its not cool, it geeky and a waste of time. Climb a mountain, bungee or go sky diving if you want fun!

The Blackberry is a business tool. Having used Tungsten W, Treo 600 (which i have), Treo 650 I am glad they havent changed too much. And even with all these other devices around, there is still no competition.

How can a device with less features and "street cred" (use that phrase loosely) outsell everything else?

Simple. Because its the best for business and those wishing to use email. Its simple, easy to use and whatever you want to do its design and platform allow you to do it quicker than any other pda device.

Posted by: twizardt

You have to think about staying ahead of the game. I remeber a time when "most business guys" didnt want email. We dont need all that crap. But there are things that we could use, Like better apps, ie., calender and calculator,more editable user settings, etc.

Posted by: ajg

Quote:

Originally Posted by astro_warp

I agree that in some cases that making things cool and whatnot will devalue them in the end. Cool does not mean tacky. The two words are in fact almost antonyms. Having a lot of applications does not make anything unstable. Instability comes from bad OS's with poor development and a lot of legacy code (Windows) or from poorly designed applications. Again, large quantities of applications doesn't have anything to do with stability. And fun is not juvenile. I don't know where to begin with that. If you think everything that is fun is juvenile then I'd hate to be your friend cuz it would be boring. I don't mean to get too offensive it just sounds as if anything cool, hip, powerful, and fun is what you consider bad.

I can say for one, picture phones maybe used by teens, but plenty business people are using them too. A friend of mine is in realestate and when she sees a house that a client would love, she takes a picture and emails it directly to them. The whole company does this now. Granted they aren't great pictures generally, but technology is always improving.

It sounds more like you are limiting technology by not having an imagination as to what it would be able to do. For you it may not have a purpose, but keep in mind, according to the late CEO of IBM from decades ago, neither would computers ever have a use for the person. As I like to say, think of all the possibilities, not just what you do now.

Posted by: twizardt

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajg

Well Said! Thank you

Posted by: racarusotheoreo

Quote:

Originally Posted by astro_warp

Depends what you mean by "....stay proactive......".

Some of us dont want Blackberry devices to turn in Cool [Tacky] , Application packed [unstable] and fun [juvenile] devices.

I hate the latest batch of phones and pda's on the market. Everything is referred to as fun. Ooh ooh assign a picture to a name in your phone book and have fun seeing who's calling???!! Download fun ringtones or fun backgrounds and watch your friends roar with laughter. Huh? Whats that all about?? How is it fun and cool to spend ages setting up pictures for caller id and taking photo's with a phone. Its not cool, it geeky and a waste of time. Climb a mountain, bungee or go sky diving if you want fun!

The Blackberry is a business tool.

Finally, a mobile tech consumer that shares my views! Three cheers for astro_warp!

Posted by: astro_warp

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajg

There is a natural progression of technology, eg blackberry. Then the unnatural, eg Palm.

The haste with which we progress with technology decides whether or not its a long term design, eg Blackberry (still my 7290 is same design as 58xx series).

I'm willing to accept that being trendy, wearing trendy clothes, having a modern open minded outlook on life is good, but I dont believe that having a device like the blackberry made trendy and cool with nonsense features will benefit anyone longterm, or make the person using it cool.

Large quantities of apps do make device unstable, simply because if RIM open up the options we will have developers churning out crap all day long. Palm is a good example. Many many downloads available, but every other program conflicts with another and you get device resets and crappy programs.

What we have with Blackberry is QUALITY not QUANTITY and thats the way it should always stay. I would NOT object to a good quality camera (2mp upwards) or decent imaging application, or any well written application with a real use, a real purpose, but lets not turn Blackberry into another Nokia or Palm device (or worse still windows ce), let Blackberry progress at its own speed and I'm sure many useful applications and features with be added in time and will be of the same user friendly high quality we have now.

But I dont think there is any need to panic, as far as I can see Blackberry is well on track. To be world no. 1 for PDA is quite an achievement, bearing in mind the devices have not changed that much, whilst competitors are desperately adding more but giving less, the Blackberry retains a position of dominance in the mobiloe email/pda market having only made subtle, needed changes and additions.

Posted by: ajg

Quote:

Originally Posted by astro_warp

I will still have to disagree. Technologies progress is unnatural by definition. Techonology is unnatural so I'd like to better understand how you or anyone can define the "natural progress" technology and what Palm has done versus Blackberry.

As for trendy, trendy does not mean that it is going to be a bad device. Trendy is nothing more than marketing anyway with little to do with the device. And if you look at the definition of trendy, it means fashionable. Since when is fashionable a clear indication that it is a poor device? The execution of making something trendy will determine whether or not it is going to be filled with nonsence features (another ambiguous term). Keep in mind, the nonsense would imply that it has no function of any use when again, I'd point out that all functions of say, a Series 60 phone, have a use. Perhaps not to you and so you do not use it. But if the designers and engineers do things right, it will NOT cause any problems for the end user.

Now, onto the applications. The quantity of applications will NOT make a device unstable. If there we 10 million applications out there, the Blackberry would still be just as stable as now. IF, the programmer did his job, it will not interfere with other operations of the device. Now if it does, it only takes ONE application to cause instability. On the other hand, assuming your agrument is correct, then the few the applications, the better the device. So, I hope you aren't using Windows... and at that, then I'd say you better not us the Mac OS, or Linux, because there are a lot of applications out there. You better find the operating system with the fewest applications so your computer will be stable. See the problem? You have few applications so you have few problems. Few applications more limited functionality; generally speaking. Therefore the purpose of the device becomes more specific and less appealing; less of a smartphone.

Finally, and please explain this to me because I may not have all the information. Number 1 PDA? Maybe if you look at growth but it is not number on in market share. So I yes, there is an implication that people are really on the bandwagon with the Blackberry. There is no evidence that is has more than 6 million users vs. the nearly 30 million Palm users. Percents and statistics can be made to prove anything. After all, the Mac was the number 1 last quarter.

My last thought, is that I am a Blackberry user and find there devices to be outstanding. It can not replace my PDA in the long term and is missing features with real value to me that I'd like to see in the next versions. In the end, I will probably be with Blackberry for some time or until a better solution comes around.

Posted by: astro_warp

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajg

Well you are allowed to disagree! I'm concerned you are mixing words, eg "Technologies progress is unnatural by definition". By definition??? I think not.

If you understand the R&D and manufacture process then you will understand what i mean. I dont have time now to go through the whole process, but suffice to say, Technology and progress within a long established company like RIM does have traditions and natural advances brought on by years of process and design.

Trendy(the astro_warp definition for devices)[Real name: tacky]: Devices with pretty pictures popping up when someone calls. Devices with piss poor cameras, Devices with swappable covers, swappable buttons, games, Polyphoney ringtones, mp3 player, tv / any application or component which is NOT used on a daily basis and involves "entertaining" ones self accompanied by irritating beeps and tunes in the quiet carriage on a train/anywhere public where it might irritate me.

Re applications. I'm very aware what makes a device unstable. The point I was trying to make is that if RIM open up doors to developers there will be more unstable software out there. Stands to reason. More apps, more competition, prices have to be low, less testign before release, more bugs, more crashes.

Re: number one sales, do some research, as of may this year they were in 1st place, palm in 2nd and HP in 3rd.

Posted by: ajg

Quote:

Originally Posted by astro_warp

Technology is unnatural. I don't know what else to say about that other than technology doesn't grow on trees so technology but definition is unnatural.

Trendy = tacky? Perhaps that is your definition but it is not the real defintion. Tacky is in poor taste. Trendy does not mean poor taste.

"More apps, more competition, prices have to be low, less testign before release, more bugs, more crashes." Again, that has to do with poor engineers and a lack of business ethics not the devices capability.

And once again, number on in sales does not mean number one over all. They still have 24 million users to get to before they are number one. One quarter of great sales does not mean that they are the number one PDA throughout the industry. A one time happenstance doesn't indicate a overall market share.

I'm not going to antagonize anyone. My main concern is that "tradition" blindsides innovation because it is the unknown and people are afraid of it. Having a game on your Blackberry is nice... just for that little bit of downtime you can play a game of Blackjack or something. It doesn't mean that the device is bad. And neither does multimedia; pictures, movies, etc. If the person next to you have a game that make too much noise, ask them kindly to turn it down. After all, that isn't the device's fault, it is the user. I guess I can not convince anyone otherwise, so I will simply say this, devices will evovle far beyond what they are today and it will not become a problem for the device or user if the company who is designing it does a good job. That simple. Why is the Mac so powerful and stable? Why is Blackberry to well liked? It's because of capability and how well it works for the user and for one to ask RIM to stagnate their devices capability as such will be their downfall.

Posted by: astro_warp

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajg

You seem to be twisting my comments.

1) The word unnatural has many meanings, for example it can mean: Inconsistent with an individual pattern or custom.

2) I've never questioned device capability. In fact my point made about applications clearly referred to developers.

3) There are several reports claiming Blackberry is the number one PDA. It sold most PDA's in first quarter of 2005 and a seperate study also indicates its current status as outselling other pda's.

4) You are not antagonising me, its sad you see it that way. I enjoy immensely a good debate.

5) I'm not saying Blackberry should stop producing and advancing good pda handhelds.

Posted by: ajg

Quote:

Originally Posted by astro_warp

You are a wothy debater.

I certainly am enjoying myself. The only reason I say "antogonize" is because when typing online I have no idea your tone of voice. I do not mean to twist your words; it's your words that confused me. Remember I used the word 'implies.' I'm a man who carefully chooses word when speaking publically so I have a critical eye when it comes to language. In either case, I think we are on the same side, just have two different viewpoints on where RIM should take their technology. Kudos to you astro_warp.

Posted by: astro_warp

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajg

You are a wothy debater.

Ah thank you very much AJG, you too. We are on the same side. We both agree RIM should advance. Just that I think they shouldnt rush into too many advancements just because they may have one or two new competitors. I remember the days when call diverts had to be manually programmed and when text messaging wasnt available, so I am definitely glad of the advancements made thus far!

Maybe there should be some punishment island for ungrateful techies where only analogue coverage is available and Blackberry's are banned!

Posted by: ftv

The Blackberry is well on its way to becoming an affordable gadget filled cell phone. You can thank pop culture for that (Celebrities and Rap Music). So for those who want to keep the Blackberry as a simple efficient tool that represents a busy business man...your **** out of luck.

RIM would be extremely dumb not to capitalize on the sudden popularity and interest in the Blackberry and other data solution devices. Expect the Blackberry to evolve...especially with all the competition popping up from 3rd parties and service providers rolling out their own push e-mail solutions.

Posted by: racarusotheoreo

Quote:

Originally Posted by ftv

You can thank pop culture for that (Celebrities and Rap Music).

Yeah, I know what you mean...I'm in my early twenties, when I was a freshman in HS it was all about two way Moto/Skytel pagers in the hip hop bubble; and now its all about BlackBerries (the hip hop culture is becoming more and more business/corporate oriented, as seen with the transition from baggy clothing to button down shirts and cufflinks, etc).

BlackBerries being exploited by the rap crowd, just as they raped Nextel and the Motorola/SkyTel pager phonemena is just a natural progression.

And sadly, it will render a secure BB that much harder to come by. Our only real hope is that the government and military contracts keep BB in their hearts - and checkbooks

Posted by: racarusotheoreo

Also, not to overly depress all of you, but...
Paris Hilton has been spotted numerous times with her new toy...
A shiny BlackBerry 7100t on T-Mobile

So, that is the beginning of the end, if I say so myself.

Posted by: Mobile PhD

RIM needs to expand its' email technology and/or its' device lineup to meet the demands of the public. A large portion of the public WANTS cameras, bluetooth, wi-fi, and the like. They don't care that their digital camera takes better pictures because it doesn't fit in their pocket. They want email, they don't care if the NSA bans cameras, or limits bluetooth. RIM can develop a BlackBerry that meets these demands without destroying the current offerings. Nokia makes no-nonsense phones still, but they also have a "trendy" fashion line. To Astro: Just because you don't use these features, doesn't mean no one else wants them. Think of someone other than yourself. You really sound like you work too much, settle down and have some fun. If they made a "Personal Line" of blackberries, you don't have to buy one. They can still make business oriented models as well. You seem as though you have a good business head on your shoulders. Don't you think it would be profitable for them to capatalise on the younger market? The US government didn't stop buying Hummers because they made a model that was aimed at normal consumers, with leather seats and stereos. And they are making money hand over fist. It didn't make the mil-spec Hummers any less powerful, or less useful. There are plenty other examples as well. You should want RIM to make money. You wouldn't want someone else to buy them and totally change everything! I am obviously in favor of making a model with more features. I got rid of my my 7730 because it got boring. I loved the email, but it wasn't worth the lack of other features. I am not a slacker, or child that just wants toys on my phone. I just like to have fun every once in a while. And the ability to carry extra files with me to work, and take pictures, and transfer things over bluetooth are all things that would make my life easier.