vB Easy Archive - No More USA Blackberry Email??????????

Pages: 1

No More USA Blackberry Email??????????
(Click here to view the original thread with full colors/images)

Posted by: iidoshii

I just saw this....

http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/business...008112609990001

Posted by: GregGebhardt

Not ot worry. I think the court refused to even rehear the case. So RIM is going to do just fine. There will be BB mail.

Posted by: NeilDK

I am not sure I follow your response, GregGebhardt. From the article, it sounds to me like RIM may very well be prevented from selling BlackBerrys and providing email services in the US. RIM was the party requesting the hearing that was denied.

I hope I am wrong but it sure looks like RIM may be in trouble in the US. If I am reading the article wrong or someone knows more.....please reply.

Posted by: jibi

The courts refused to hear the appeal not the case. The case had already been heard and ruled on, granting NTP with an injunction against RIM's BlackBerry product and service in the U.S. The injunction was stayed pending the appeal. The issue now is the basis of the case against RIM was patent infringement, which said patents were recently rejected by the USPTO, our governing body over patents. RIM's appeal was based on jurisdiction of the U.S. court system not the actual patent technology. The appeal was filed just after the ruling against RIM, so the appeal is not up to date.

I'm guessing the injunction will not be granted due to new information surrounding the case that was only recently made available. This will most likely stay pending until NTP's appeal to the USPTO. Once that appeals process is finalized, the case mentioned here will move forward. If the USPTO upholds their current rejection of the NTP wireless email and message technology patents, then I'm sure the courts will find in favor of RIM and the case will be dismissed since there will no longer be any sort of legs for NTP to stand on. I'm no legal expert but common sense tells you that without the patents, NTP has no case against RIM.

This will most likely be in the air for a long, long time.

Posted by: jase88

The U.S. Government relies heavily on Blackberry. It's the cornerstone of their emergency communications system.

I'm sure they'll find a solution to this mess....and I doubt it'll be a solution that works in NTP's favour.

Posted by: GregGebhardt

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeilDK

I am not sure I follow your response, GregGebhardt. From the article, it sounds to me like RIM may very well be prevented from selling BlackBerrys and providing email services in the US. RIM was the party requesting the hearing that was denied.

I hope I am wrong but it sure looks like RIM may be in trouble in the US. If I am reading the article wrong or someone knows more.....please reply.

Sorry but it is not much to worry about. RIM has been going thru court for years and years, so has Microsoft. They are both still around. There are just other things to worry about.

Posted by: jboidc

I believe the money has been set aside by RIM to pay the disputed licensing fees if that's what it comes to. RIM will continue to fight tho, especially since the patents have been thrown out.

Posted by: NEXTELFONEGUY

WE WILL ALL HAVE TO USE I930'S. I WOULD SHOOT MY SELF BEFORE CARRING THAT BRICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: GregGebhardt

Quote:

Originally Posted by NEXTELFONEGUY

WE WILL ALL HAVE TO USE I930'S. I WOULD SHOOT MY SELF BEFORE CARRING THAT BRICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Please leave your gun close by so I can be next!

Posted by: NeilDK

Well, guys.....I sure hope you are right. Thanks for the information.

Posted by: jase88

RIM says they also have a technical work around should the lawsuit move in NTP's favour. This work-around avoids the patented technology somehow...

Posted by: jibi

Quote:

Originally Posted by jase88

The U.S. Government relies heavily on Blackberry. It's the cornerstone of their emergency communications system.

I'm sure they'll find a solution to this mess....and I doubt it'll be a solution that works in NTP's favour.

The injunction does not affect the U.S. Government. Since this is the case, RIM cannot obviously block the U.S. carriers' access to their network. I honestly do not see a simple way of implementing said injunction without affecting government accounts or involving the carriers in some form or fashion. I just honestly don't see this case going very far... however, it may be enough of a storm right here prior to the release of Exchange 2003 SP2 to get finance and IT execs into a frenzy to go ahead and look at Microsoft's upcoming solution (and GoodLink for those not using Exchange).

Posted by: jase88

Quote:

Originally Posted by jibi

It affects sales of the device, software and servers...even if the government uses it's own wireless network.

The servers and infrastructure that run the service are in Canada--so the injunction obviously cannot affect that.

Posted by: jibi

It does not affect government accounts within the U.S., sales or service... since almost all government accounts will be with a wireless carrier, be it Nextel, Verizon, T-Mobile, Cingular, etc., RIM will not be able to deny access to carrier gateways to the RIM network, else they'll affect said government accounts.

Quote:

As part of that litigation, NTP, whose only assets are wireless e-mail related patents, had been granted an injunction banning the sale of BlackBerry devices in the United States and forcing Research in Motion to stop providing e-mail services to all American customers except government account holders.

Posted by: jase88

Quote:

Originally Posted by jibi

It does not affect government accounts within the U.S., sales or service... since almost all government accounts will be with a wireless carrier, be it Nextel, Verizon, T-Mobile, Cingular, etc., RIM will not be able to deny access to carrier gateways to the RIM network, else they'll affect said government accounts.

Ahhh....I didn't realize the ligitation decision stipulated this.

Thanks for the heads up.

Posted by: iidoshii

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregGebhardt

Not ot worry. I think the court refused to even rehear the case. So RIM is going to do just fine. There will be BB mail.

ok good, thanks!

Posted by: jibi

Quote:

Originally Posted by iidoshii

ok good, thanks!

eh, the person ur quoting was incorrect in their statement/comprehension. the courts refused RIM's appeal in the case that ruled against them and for an injunction of their product in the States. thats not good, unless you're pulling for them to lose the case. read my previous statements to bring you up to date a bit.

Posted by: Soapm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jase88

RIM says they also have a technical work around should the lawsuit move in NTP's favour. This work-around avoids the patented technology somehow...

i heard this also, anyone know if it's true. If RIM can string this out in the courts long enough then this will be very important. It will make NTP wish they had of taken some of the recent offers.

Posted by: jibi

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soapm

i heard this also, anyone know if it's true. If RIM can string this out in the courts long enough then this will be very important. It will make NTP wish they had of taken some of the recent offers.

their CEO was quoted in a few articles some months ago about the workaround. but you saw how well-executed the release of the Yahoo client and TMO systems integration went, so i don't really have that much faith in a full-scale infrastructure and technology change. maybe thats just me, though.

Posted by: iidoshii

Quote:

Originally Posted by jibi

oh god, that is terrible!

Posted by: jibi

Quote:

Originally Posted by iidoshii

oh god, that is terrible!

sort of, yes. but considering the patents were rejected by the issuing body, i don't really see the current court case that was ruled upon having any merit - the heart of the case is no longer valid, so how in the hell could the judgement be as much?

trust me, this case is far from over... RIM did the nice thing and stuck their hand out and offered money to NTP. NTP decided they wanted to be greedy and ask for more. now they'll get what they have coming to them, and i hope they have to repay the money earned from those patents to the various companies out there that signed agreements with them (such as Nokia, Good, etc).

Posted by: proaud

F.Y.I.

Here is a link to the original lawsuit documents!

http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/...rim80503ord.pdf

Posted by: jnelson2000

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/new...5A419}&dist=bnb

Posted by: purephase

Holy hell. This is not good.

Posted by: xxhiyanxx

dammit... i do NOT want to go the the i930

Posted by: whsbuss

Lets all just takea deep breath on this. You gotta believe with all the Feds using BBs, the court will probably remand the previous decision for RIM to pay the agreed upon $450M

Posted by: AlphaShark

What does all this mean? Does it mean that there is a possibility that all the carriers would have to stop serviceing BB's? Or is it just the email part that is in jeopardy?

Posted by: jnelson2000

Stop all BB Sales and services in the US. So yes, carriers would not be able to sell or service BB devices.

Posted by: jnelson2000

However, it is highly unlikely that the courts will enforce this. Most likely you will see a high stakes monetary settlement which includes royaltiy fees moving forward.

Posted by: the_good_doctor

Quote:

Originally Posted by tedya

What does all this mean? Does it mean that there is a possibility that all the carriers would have to stop serviceing BB's? Or is it just the email part that is in jeopardy?

Both the devices and service, according to ABC News:

"NTP said the case will move back to the District Court it was first heard in for re-confirmation of the injunction that could halt U.S. sales of the BlackBerry e-mail device and shut down its service in the United States."

I reviewed the ruling by U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia and it appears that ABC is correct...the injuction enjoins RIM from selling its BlackBerry wireless e-mail handhelds, software, and services in the U.S.

Posted by: GregGebhardt

I am betting 6 months from know, my trusty Blackberry will still be working.

Any takers? (paypal is accepted)

Posted by: xxhiyanxx

a client of mine that i'm trying to switch over to blackberries told me today that the order doesn't included government services.. anyone hear about that? if its true all then maybe we are not as secure as we thought. trying to find somethign to back this up.

Posted by: AshG

What's the timeframe for the re-hearing in the original district court? I'm trying to decide how quickly to pounce on a new phone, and am hoping it goes slowly enough I can get my hands on the 7130e before things get too bad.

Posted by: BlackBerryFinch

It is rather sad when 450mil isn't enough but reality is NTP can't afford a shut down of BB or its services, without the revenues RIM sees from the US markets there is no way RIM could pay out a possible 450mil and NTP could end up with nothing excluding a large leagal bill. RIM also revealed mo's back they have a back up plan and service (tested and ready to go) which isn't reliant on the noted NTP patents so no service interuption would occure.

Posted by: whsbuss

Focus on the word "COULD" enforce an injunction.... can you imagine CNN, FOX, NBC, ABC, CBS, and other Major corporations immediately filing an injunction with the federal court? The remedy NTP is seeking (turning off all BB sales/services) would cause enormous damage. I believe the court would force a settlement first.

Posted by: mas90guru

Be realistic. What is the value to NTP of shutting down RIM?

This is nothing more than a negotiating ploy.

IMHO if RIM had an alternative technology that worked they'd be deploying it already...

Posted by: NetGuyR

This is all certainly very scary...and now with the release of SP2 for Exchange with push support, there are a lot of unknown effects that could be had on the market. I'm interested to see what happens down the line in a few months.

I agree, though - if RIM had a viable alternative solution, why arent they implementing it and publicly acknowledging that...wouldnt that help lessen the market scare?

Posted by: plastikman

Quote:

Originally Posted by NetGuyR

This is all certainly very scary...and now with the release of SP2 for Exchange with push support, there are a lot of unknown effects that could be had on the market. I'm interested to see what happens down the line in a few months.

I agree, though - if RIM had a viable alternative solution, why arent they implementing it and publicly acknowledging that...wouldnt that help lessen the market scare?

it could very well be that RIM neds a devaluation in their P/E ratio...its likely that because of the nortel fiasco, they are hedging their bets against a negative ruling in their favour...most people here are probably correct in assuming its a negotiating tactic in the hopes that NT*whoever gets a settlement by way of Waterloo..however allowing some artficial deflation to occur before issuing a record earnings report for the next quarter would actually boost their share price in a fashion that is not artificial but rather is fundamental, which is something that befalls many tech hardware cos...i'm assuming they will issue a record earnings report simply because they have been in that track for some time...although RIM's fundamentals look good, i have to put it out their that their P/E ratio is inflated, and technicals do not necessarily look good for techs on the TSE in the short term (i.e. 2-6 quarters)...

this is just a *maybe* scenario, coming from someone who has some expertise in equity research, and its certainly a question many analysts will be asking in the next conference call...

Posted by: aviationwiz

Well that's pretty scary. If it happened, it would void my contract with VZW, but what does that leave me with, a $300 paperweight?

Posted by: mas90guru

That's the other issue -- if RIM were allowed to go down all the Cell carriers would have to let people out of contracts. I suspect if RIM were issued some type of injunction that many carriers would hop in to stop the ruling.

Even if there is no settlement I bet they can drag this another year....which may be exactly what they want. It could buy RIM time to implement a workaround.

Posted by: L Bo

Merged...

Posted by: Corporate

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this only affects anyone using BB service in the USA eh? So all us Canadians would probably go on business as usual..

Posted by: jase88

Wirelessly posted (nuclear signal: BlackBerry7250/4.0.2 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1)

^ You are correct. RIM has a work-around if the injunction goes into effect. So there won't be any interruption to service.

Remember that RIM servers aren't in the US. So the court's jurisdiction is limited to certain aspects of the service.

Posted by: Mark Rejhon

Excellent question. A lot of people are understandably worried.

There are lots of things going for RIM in this case:

1. As you mentioned, RIM has developed a workaround already. They can keep running. NTP is out of luck, they can only sue for retroactive damages -- and the network keeps running.

2. This patent tussle is stuff that has been going on since 2003 and they haven't been shut down. RIM has had plenty of time with lots of backup plans that the media hasn't been publicizing. Some of us know more a lot more about these plans than the media does.

3. RIM already set aside nearly half a billion dollars to pay NTP. Although they are fighting over details, the money is already set aside. RIM will do a last minute settlement if they have to. The money is already there, but will only be used during an emergency elevent-hour settlement.

4. Even if worse comes to worse, the U.S. government - by way of DOJ - is on RIM's side. Even if they don't deploy the workaround, the USA government has asked for an exemption because the U.S. government is remarkably dependant on this Canadian technology (surprise, surprise!). This gives RIM plenty of time to deploy a workaround at their own leisure. No shutdown necessary.

5. You would have several million angry customers, since BlackBerry is also the most popular PDA (more popular than Palm now -- and many more units than TREO). You can bet RIM is going to play hardball to the eleventh hour, before they give a red dime to NTP.

6. The patent may be invalid. NTP may be suing over nothing. RIM wants to keep its half billion dollars.

Therefore, RIM is never going to be shut down in USA. It is like RIM is wearing six backup parachutes -- Skydiving only jump with one backup parachute in addition to their main parachute. Don't believe the media hype one little bit. The media thinks you always die if your parachute does not open.

It's a total non-issue now. It shouldn't be affecting BlackBerry purchases anymore since the network isn't going to be shut down with all these good news.

Posted by: RazrRob

Can an 8700c be programmed to run on Verizon or T-Mobile? If so, would you mind sharing the settings?
thanks!

Posted by: bryanharig

Quote:

Originally Posted by RazrRob

Can an 8700c be programmed to run on Verizon or T-Mobile? If so, would you mind sharing the settings?
thanks!

T-Mobile:

http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=790290

http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=786661

Verizon/Sprint/Nextel: not possible.

Posted by: rip

latest news on this issue:

http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2.../25/blackberry/

Will BlackBerry go out of season?

An intellectual property lawsuit could silence the ever-present hand-held e-mail device.

By Sam Natapoff

Jan. 25, 2006 | For everyone who ever wished that BlackBerrys were illegal, they soon could be. The ubiquitous hand-held e-mail-phone devices often provoke rage in would-be conversation partners, disgust in onlookers, and fury in those forced to endure their incessant beeping.

But Type A workaholics everywhere are in agony, as a mano a mano battle brews over this ostentatious icon of the information elite. In one corner is Research in Motion Ltd., the Canadian firm in Waterloo, Ontario, that created and manufactures BlackBerrys. In the other is NTP Inc., a small Virginia-based U.S. patent firm that apparently holds the patent on BlackBerry's wireless transmission of e-mail.

The fight cuts to the heart of the battle over intellectual property rights in an information economy. With rising competition at home and abroad, companies are desperately trying to stay current by offering new, innovative goods such as hand-helds, downloadable music, and satellite radio, all at sonic speeds of production. But the obsession with novelty is risky business when it is often unclear whether someone else may already own the idea.

NTP's patents concern wireless transmission of e-mail by radio frequency to a mobile receiver like a BlackBerry. The patents were initially registered by NTP founder Thomas Campana, in 1991, to patent a wireless communication system he created for his original pager company. NTP holds that BlackBerry is encroaching on NTP's patents in its wireless e-mail delivery to its hand-helds. BlackBerry insists its proprietary software does not impinge upon NTP's territory.

On Monday, the U.S. Supreme Court refused to review an appeals court ruling on the case. Specifically, the appeals court held that although RIM's main relay station is based in Canada, the company must still abide by U.S. patent law, given that customers use the device inside U.S. borders. The high court decision means that all BlackBerry service could be suspended as soon as Feb. 1 if no settlement is reached, causing high-powered frenzies from Wall Street to Waikiki. (BlackBerry has 4.3 million U.S. subscribers.) But the U.S. government isn't entirely on the same page. In December 2005, the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office announced that it intended to reject NTP's five patents and its arguments as "unpersuasive." It is still reviewing the case.

RIM put a brave face on Monday's Supreme Court setback. "[W]e were not banking on a Supreme Court review," Mark Guibert, RIM's vice president for corporate marketing, said in a statement. Should a district court judge in Richmond, Va. -- who sided with NTP in 2003 -- rule that BlackBerry must halt its services before the patent office makes its final decision, BlackBerry has created "workaround software" to keep the company in business, Guibert said. NTP could not be reached for comment.

The case was almost resolved last year, when RIM tentatively settled with NTP for $450 million. That agreement imploded, and now the settlement price has skyrocketed to somewhere between $700 million and $1.5 billion, as BlackBerrys have become more popular. With so much money at stake for both companies, analysts say a settlement remains possible.

In the meantime, Karl Marx would be amused to watch RIM and NTP tear each other apart. Now that capital (like communication) is increasingly virtual, those who think they own the means of production may need to double-check their capitalist credentials. It turns out that it's no longer enough to invent a product, build a factory and dominate the market as RIM did. A clever investor such as NTP, a company whose sole purpose is to hold patents, may turn out to be your boss.

The internecine ownership arguments are having some concrete trickle-down effects. While Mommy and Daddy fight over patent rights, the BlackBerry-toting spawn are terrified at the possibility of mobile e-mail deprivation. Ontario-based RIM has been so dominant in convincing American overachievers to buy BlackBerrys that the "South Park" creators should think about adding it to their song, "Blame Canada." If BlackBerrys go dark, so will the mood of much of Wall Street. While this may delight the pen-and-ink crowd, it will likely (if temporarily) cost millions in lost time, reduced efficiency, and therapy bills.

It will also be a significant victory for intellectual property rights. BlackBerry's classic market success will have been brought to heel by a small U.S. holding company that doesn't produce a thing, speculating on products that may never exist. In other words, BlackBerry will have been defeated by an idea. Marx would have been proud.

Posted by: BenMarvin

Wow. This thread is old news...