vB Easy Archive - A special thanks to the kid who leaked the UMTS/HSDPA Stuff off CSP...

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A special thanks to the kid who leaked the UMTS/HSDPA Stuff off CSP...
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Posted by: nskgti23

I just want to extend a special thank you to the kid who leaked the UMTS/HSDPA stuff off CSP onto this forum. Because of you, I am unable to access the UMTS link on CSP to get important information for 3 of my customers that require it today. Next time you have the brilliant idea to publish CONFIDENTIAL/PROPRIETARY information to the world, do the rest of us a favor and smash your computer keyboard and screen.

Thanks for costing me a couple grand...

Posted by: noodles5666

Quote:

Originally Posted by nskgti23

I just want to extend a special thank you to the kid who leaked the UMTS/HSDPA stuff off CSP onto this forum. Because of you, I am unable to access the UMTS link on CSP to get important information for 3 of my customers that require it today. Next time you have the brilliant idea to publish CONFIDENTIAL/PROPRIETARY information to the world, do the rest of us a favor and smash your computer keyboard and screen.

Thanks for costing me a couple grand...

Hey hey hey. Come on now. What do you need. Most of the information you can get on here. What were you looking for.

Posted by: kilowatt

if it is costing you a couple of grand use your head find the info you need somewhere other than CSP.

Posted by: nskgti23

Quote:

Originally Posted by noodles5666

Hey hey hey. Come on now. What do you need. Most of the information you can get on here. What were you looking for.

Wrong, there are presentations on there that were designed for customers that have signed NDA's with the company. I will get them, but I don't have another meeting with them until the end of November. My contact managed to fit me in early today, but I didn't have time to bring in info on the UMTS stuff because it is UNAVAILABLE on CSP right now to prevent more leaks. Sure, I'll get my money at some point early next year, but it would be nice to have it before XMas...

I'm not going to bring stuff in off of Howard Forums, Engadget or RCRNews to a LARGE corporate customer...

Either way, the meeting is over... So now I have to wait for a late November/December or even January deployment...

Posted by: nskgti23

Quote:

Originally Posted by kilowatt

if it is costing you a couple of grand use your head find the info you need somewhere other than CSP.

If a kid didn't leak the info I wouldn't have to spend 2 hours wasting my time trying to get the UMTS info from other sources, which costs me more money. As I said in my other post, I'll get the sale later, but I have to wait until I can get back in for another meeting.

Either way, I really hope this kid gets what's coming to him. I know the Upper Management wants his head on a stick, and if he has ever logged into HoFo from his NT Log-in, they will have it soon enough.

Posted by: Agent2563

Quote:

Originally Posted by nskgti23

Every post you make is concerning money and how much you make. Maybe some of us come here to find things other than how great nskgti23's job is. There is something to be said for modesty.

Posted by: nskgti23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agent2563

Every post you make is concerning money and how much you make. Maybe some of us come here to find things other than how great nskgti23's job is. There is something to be said for modesty.

First off, not EVERY post I make on here is in relation to money. I have almost 3500 posts on this board in a range of forums from the Nextel, Smartphone, PPC, Cingular, AWS, B/S/T, computer and lounge groups... In fact I would say that 99% of my posts have NOTHING to do with money.

Yes, I am happy that I have a job that pays me well and I expect to make good money for the amount of work that I do. I work hard and have very good relationships with a number of very large customers. So rather than talking to me about modesty, post something worth while.

Second, when a kid comes into this forum, posts info that is PROPRIETARY to Cingular, he is breaking the NDA that he agreed to. When that impacts my ability to do business, of course I'm going to be mad. How would you like me to come into your office, lock up all the files and computers, and ask you to get something done?

Posted by: Imari

If this is information that you have to have regularly, shouldn't you KNOW it by now without having to look it up every time? Or even have it printed out somewhere?

Posted by: nskgti23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imari

If this is information that you have to have regularly, shouldn't you KNOW it by now without having to look it up every time? Or even have it printed out somewhere?

I should have KNOWN that some kid was going to take the info that was just posted on an internal site and post it on the net? I should have known that they were going to lock the entire UMTS site down because of such post?

This info had only been up for a few days. I didn't have time to get it. Plus I didn't expect to have a meeting with these people today. Sometimes people have availability just pop up, that wasn't there the month before. Mind you, I'm not dealing with Joe Blow off the street who can just clear his day for me... These people have companies to run.

Posted by: samab

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agent2563

Every post you make is concerning money and how much you make. Maybe some of us come here to find things other than how great nskgti23's job is. There is something to be said for modesty.

I disagree with you 100%.

In order to even keep this hofo forum alive --- you have to keep the lawyers from suing howard to get that kid's ip address.

As a Canadian, I don't want the canadian side of hofo getting side-swiped by these events.

Posted by: nskgti23

If this kid is employed by Cingular and he has EVER logged into HoFo from his work terminal, they already know who he is...

Quote:

Originally Posted by samab

Posted by: SuxBeingU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agent2563

Every post you make is concerning money and how much you make. Maybe some of us come here to find things other than how great nskgti23's job is. There is something to be said for modesty.

I can vouch for him not all are about money he has quite a library of posts bashing indirects dealers too.

Posted by: Agent2563

Quote:

Originally Posted by samab

Maybe I didn't make myself clear. The kid is wrong who did it obviously and Cingular is idiotic for releasing the information on such an easily available site. Their UMTS equipment vendors are pretty forthcoming about their sales to cingular, no surprise as to where the equipment is being shipped.

I knew many blue B2B reps, I was even recruited to be one. I don't remember any of them being so ... abrasive and avaricious.

Just an opinion. Take it for that.

Posted by: nskgti23

Cingular released the info to the employes to prepare them to SELL the product. How would you like to be told to sell something that you didn't know what it was?

The blame on this lays strictly on the kid who released it. When EVERY Cingular employee starts work, they agree to an NDA stating they will not release CONFIDENTIAL/PROPRIETARY information to the public. That is why almost EVERY internal document states CONFIDENTIAL AND PROPRIETARY on them.

As for your comments towards my attitude... My attitude on this forum and work ethic are two totally different things. Yes I expect to get paid. Yes I expect to get paid very well for that matter, as I am a VERY good at what I do. Part of being a good sales rep is being confident in yourself and your product. Selling wireless in the B2B space has as much to do with selling yourself, as the rep, as it does with selling the product.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agent2563

Posted by: nskgti23

Glad you are so fond of me...

Do you think I care...

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuxBeingU

I can vouch for him not all are about money he has quite a library of posts bashing indirects dealers too.

Posted by: ibclubbin

(in my Napoleon Dynamite voice) what a friggin idiot!

some hofo reject has the balls to post confidential info like that...hopefully he is canned ASAP for his Code of Conduct violation

Posted by: nskgti23

And he returns from the dead...

I'm never inviting you back to read something if your going to steal my lines...

Gosh, your ruining my life!!!!!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibclubbin

(in my Napoleon Dynamite voice) what a friggin idiot!

some hofo reject has the balls to post confidential info like that...hopefully he is canned ASAP for his Code of Conduct violation

Posted by: 3rdshift

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/4.0 (MobilePhone MM-7400/US/1.0) NetFront/3.1 MMP/2.0)

im glad that kid did what he did, you cannot stop non-conformists. i also quite like your reaction, its so....greed driven...while at the same time bloody hilarious.

Posted by: strickzilla

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3rdshift

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/4.0 (MobilePhone MM-7400/US/1.0) NetFront/3.1 MMP/2.0)

im glad that kid did what he did, you cannot stop non-conformists. i also quite like your reaction, its so....greed driven...while at the same time bloody hilarious.

well im glad you liked it cause what it will cause is a HUGE security backlash and it will be harder to get information out to you guys....hofo, at least to me was a way for us employess to push the envelope im sure some propiatary info has been leaked before, ive seen maps from out colaterall site posted here, but if somone asked me somethign in pm or out of the "office" id answer as best i could but id NEVER flat out give up stuff like that and DEFINATELY not a place like here.

one thign cingular was really good at was keeping the emlpoyees informed maybe a little too much invo and now its all dried up. no more tips no more "secrets" Big brother is REALLY watchin...

i hope they fire that kid so fast his head will spin

Posted by: Soopafly

I know corporate is pretty pissed, though CSP should have been setup more secure. I'll admit though they are starting to secure now after this mess.

And yes I would like also to thank this kid as all Pacific Northwest region employees must take the Code of Conduct certification once again. I wouldn't mind seeing this kid hung from the Cingular Jack.

Posted by: yoshix003

I work at a in-direct dealer and I believe CSP is not a big issue is like going to any other store and opening your "Employee" operation manual.. Nothing to be a huge threat to the company. I read skimmed around CSP, and personally got bore.

If someone got hold of POS, then we be screwed.

Posted by: BellaDea

sorry but I'm a little pissed at this kid as well and also how Hofo handeled it. the thread should have been taken down the SECOND it was noticed and a new one started just talking about UMTS without confidential info leaked. Now that this site cannot be trusted to adhere to confidentiality agreements from carriers and respecting that, Hofo will be watched and most likely banned from work sooner or later.

I'll agree with nksgti23 and add that this kid royally screwed us and himself. I'd be just as pissed as nksgti23 is considering his situation. put yourself in his shoes and then say "oh well, that sucks".

Posted by: anubis9278

i still see it.

Posted by: CA

Quote:

Originally Posted by mo162

sorry but I'm a little pissed at this kid as well and also how Hofo handeled it. the thread should have been taken down the SECOND it was noticed and a new one started just talking about UMTS without confidential info leaked. Now that this site cannot be trusted to adhere to and respecting that, Hofo will be watched and most likely banned from work sooner or later.

I'll agree with nksgti23 and add that this kid royally screwed us and himself. I'd be just as pissed as nksgti23 is considering his situation. put yourself in his shoes and then say "oh well, that sucks".

HoFo is not a Cingular owned site and has NO “confidentiality agreements from carriers”.

I can understand you are an employee and you’re bothered, but information IS why HoFo is here, and I believe was correctly not taken down.

I can only assume there are many B2B salesmen out there that need material for demonstrations, but had it been me with thousands (and potentially millions when you consider the sales force) at stake I would uses my resources (a cell call comes to mind) (actually one of the truly good uses) and gotten the materials from Cingular. They would have looked a whole lot more professional that web printouts.

A wealthy man once told me that the rich brag and the wealthy don’t speak of their money.

Posted by: BellaDea

I know Hofo is not owend by cingular but there are forums out there that have cingular specific areas that respect confidentiality of every carrier they have a forum for. it just seems inconsiderate to me that Hofo wouldn't respect another carrier in that way just to get some publicity.

Posted by: AmsterdamRave

I dont see how this information was really confidential considering ive had CSR's tell me about the UMTS info with no kind of hesistation whatsoever.

Secondly i dont see why this is anyones fault? Does it really suprise anyone including cingular corporate that this information got released? Keeping a secret in the wireless industry for the mostpart is like trying to figure out just how stupid president bush is.

People whine when NDA's are broken well im sure these same people blab to their families and friends and partners about stuff. Well thats considering breaking an NDA if you wanna play that game.

If CSP had been down then would you still be upset? Seems like you just want someone to blame for your loss. And quite frankly leaks happen in this industry

Posted by: AmsterdamRave

Quote:

Originally Posted by mo162

I know Hofo is not owend by cingular but there are forums out there that have cingular specific areas that respect confidentiality of every carrier they have a forum for. it just seems inconsiderate to me that Hofo wouldn't respect another carrier in that way just to get some publicity.

Funny i didnt see anyone saying it was wrong when Confidential information for Verizon or Sprint got leaked. I mean if your really a Confidentialiy Jockey then it would be in general not just selective

And since were talking about breaking the NDA why were there threads leaking info on ringback tunes,the HP,the Nokia Flip,Threads on upcoming Rate plans if you were truly upset over the leaks then those would count as well...

Posted by: CA

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmsterdamRave

“ringback tunes,the HP,the Nokia Flip,Threads on upcoming Rate plans “

If those are “NDA Protected” leaked examples that haven’t been scrutinized any argument is lost.

“This KID” can make an argument Cingular can not. In fact Cingular has benefited from those posts.

Posted by: BellaDea

you know, you're right. leaking is leaking. but there is a difference of saying what is going to come and giving out a corporate website. that's where the frustration lies. not necessarily leaking the UMTS stuff, but CSP itself. There's a lot on there, not just the UMTS stuff.

If I was here during the sprint and verizon leak similiar to this, I'm sure I'd be saying the same thing.

Posted by: AmsterdamRave

Quote:

Originally Posted by mo162

you know, you're right. leaking is leaking. but there is a difference of saying what is going to come and giving out a corporate website. that's where the frustration lies. not necessarily leaking the UMTS stuff, but CSP itself. There's a lot on there, not just the UMTS stuff.

If I was here during the sprint and verizon leak similiar to this, I'm sure I'd be saying the same thing.

Between the threads that ask if anyone is having pos login issues to the threads on telegence i think most of the employees give alot of their own info away

Posted by: BellaDea

it's still different than actually posting the website itself for the public.

Posted by: bobolito

Quote:

Originally Posted by nskgti23

What do you think was the first thing most of us did when we saw that stuff posted? Many people around here have the entire page and its content saved in their hard drives!

But I don't understand why you don't have access to that information anymore being that you work for the company. Wouldn't they give you a password to access it now that it is locked up and secure? Is it possible they don't want you to have access to that info anyway?

Posted by: nskgti23

They have completely pulled the UMTS info from the intranet... So NO ONE has access right now...

One thing that I find interesting is that HoFo does not follow the same laws that carriers have to. If something says confidential/proprietary for another carrier they are not legally allowed to display that info internally. Sure they can discuss it and use it, but they can not post said info on their company intranet. Only publically disclosed info and be "released" internally to other carriers.

HoFo on the other hand feels free to allow users to post internal documents... The original thread should have been deleted. If the kid wanted to post all the info, but not use the actual document, that would be one thing, but he posted the entire document.

Posted by: CA

“One thing that I find interesting is that HoFo does not follow the same laws that carriers have to”

HoFo is not a carrier.

“If something says confidential/proprietary for another carrier they are not legally allowed to display that info internally.”

What? In what country? I don’t understand how any part of our government could make this a tort.

If one carrier has an agreement with another not to disclose specific information in exchange for a consideration that’s a contract. And as a contract can be breached and therefore litigated.

If you are aware that there is a contract between carriers then there also may be a breach, but still HoFo is not a carrier.

In fact HoFo is a public Forum and is protected by law against private civil suits.

The Constitution protects the “press” and the citizens against what you consider “LAW”.

Posted by: mulletwireless

Quote:

Originally Posted by nskgti23

you were a little behind the times it was posted by WSJ weeks before it ended up on hofo, wired mag had news about it, UK's T3 ran a big artical on it. It is the nature of the beast you have something people will find out about it before the company say yes it is true or no it is not. Many hofo members are the real wireless insiders. You might want to read Cingular policy on using blogs, just by posting you could end up losing your job...

Posted by: CA

Quote:

Originally Posted by mulletwireless

You might want to read Cingular policy on using blogs, just by posting you could end up losing your job...

No way, if Cingular restricts its employees from posting certain information that you see on this site that would make some two faced no?

Posted by: nskgti23

There is a difference between speculation and internal documents being released... The WSJ did not have release dates or a market list.

And Sonix, I have actually done work with the CI team and it is stated that if a document says Confidential/Proprietary, no matter how it was obtained, it can not be distributed to the company.

I understand that HoFo is not a carrier, but there should be some ethics upheld on this board. Internal documents are just that, Internal.... As I said, if the kid wanted to leak stuff in his own words, I might have had a different tone. Or if he wanted to provide the info to someone to post, there would have been nothing Cingular could have done. The issue is he was so brash about openly working for cingular and posting it... A little sleezy in my book.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mulletwireless

Posted by: CA

Quote:

Originally Posted by nskgti23

There is a difference between speculation and internal documents being released... The WSJ did not have release dates or a market list.

And Sonix, I have actually done work with the CI team and it is stated that if a document says Confidential/Proprietary, no matter how it was obtained, it can not be distributed to the company.

I understand that HoFo is not a carrier, but there should be some ethics upheld on this board. Internal documents are just that, Internal.... As I said, if the kid wanted to leak stuff in his own words, I might have had a different tone. Or if he wanted to provide the info to someone to post, there would have been nothing Cingular could have done. The issue is he was so brash about openly working for cingular and posting it... A little sleezy in my book.

Oh I agree it was a sleazy thing to do no doubt. It's the claiming the “law” stuff.

I'm not familiar with the CI team so I cant understand your point on the distribution issue. If its a Cingular thing your argument has gone further south. If its an agreement between Carriers then you win.

Unless of course its a Criminal division of some part of the government, Then I lose.

Posted by: nskgti23

I believe there is actually legal code on it, but I am not sure where it is based.

CI is competetive intellegence...

I'll try and find the legal reference.

Posted by: CA

Quote:

Originally Posted by nskgti23

I believe there is actually legal code on it, but I am not sure where it is based.

CI is competetive intellegence...

I'll try and find the legal reference.

“CI is competetive intellegence... “

It sounds like language in a contract between either a carrier and employees or between competitive carriers, I suspect the first. If thats the case it isn't a violation of any law, and is a breach of contract for either party. Again assuming its not a code violation(law) HoFo isn't bound to it.

The “KID” my be liable, and if the agreement includes remedies they will be enforceable by a judge. This point may be mute because, in this case those remedies most likely wont be recoverable.

Again assuming these are the facts I find it hard to believe Cingular would sue him. To what end? Cingular would have to show real damages, risk bad press suing a “Kid”, and pay an attorney several thousand dollars. In the end they may recover nothing.

Posted by: Agent2563

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonix

Competetive Intelligence: either A. you are making little spreadsheets with other carriers plans listing who has what or B. You are actively trying to acquire (steal) confidential and proprietary information of other carriers.

So you got outspied.

So which are you Nskgti23? A or B.

Posted by: CA

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agent2563

My brain toyed with that idea also, but NA he just sounds like the kind of guy who just wants to know what the competition is up to.

Posted by: BellaDea

Quote:

Originally Posted by nskgti23

They have completely pulled the UMTS info from the intranet... So NO ONE has access right now...

One thing that I find interesting is that HoFo does not follow the same laws that carriers have to. If something says confidential/proprietary for another carrier they are not legally allowed to display that info internally. Sure they can discuss it and use it, but they can not post said info on their company intranet. Only publically disclosed info and be "released" internally to other carriers.

HoFo on the other hand feels free to allow users to post internal documents... The original thread should have been deleted. If the kid wanted to post all the info, but not use the actual document, that would be one thing, but he posted the entire document.

thank you!

Posted by: nskgti23

Competetive intellegence has a lot more to do with finance and strategy rather than stealing confidential documents.

There is a big difference between stealling documents and researching other carriers moves...

Additionally I don't work for the C.I. Department, I just had a lot of contact with them in the past. So no, I didn't get outspied, neither did Cingular. Some kid decided he'd be cool by posting internal documents on a public forum.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agent2563

Posted by: nskgti23

Sonix-

I got some clarification on the legal/ethical codes of confidential/proprietary documents.

It is unethical for a carrier to use confidential/proprietary documents from a competitor. This isn't to say that people can't view them, but that they should not be used to influence competetive pricing or strategy.

The legal aspect of this is more in regards to the people that disclose confidential info. A company is able to terminate and even take legal/finacial action against the parties that disclose internal documents.

Posted by: CA

Quote:

Originally Posted by nskgti23

Sonix-

I got some clarification on the legal/ethical codes of confidential/proprietary documents.

It is unethical for a carrier to use confidential/proprietary documents from a competitor. This isn't to say that people can't view them, but that they should not be used to influence competetive pricing or strategy.

The legal aspect of this is more in regards to the people that disclose confidential info. A company is able to terminate and even take legal/finacial action against the parties that disclose internal documents.

There we go thats what I thought. He may get fired, but thats about it. Cingular had no business allowing access to parties that have no use for sensitive data and I believe they learned their lesson. I'll even bet the will create a protocol for this access.

I have similar problems with sales defecting to the competition and using my info and customer list. They sign non compete, but they sometimes have little meaning to the offender because the courts cant make me whole. Instead I send the 3rd party a letter of intent to sue that person and name company as a co defendant.

It usually works because of the publicity and the potential cost of litigation to the 3rd party. I guess its called an end run.

Posted by: shortdog

The fact of the matter is, the maps were located on a publicly available server, not protected by any type of security. While the information regarding time for launch was not publicly available, I don't believe that the 1 November date is correct. How can Cingular be trying to launch a big product like UMTS/HSDPA without some initial advertising to get a good order backlog ready?

Posted by: sevensinz777

... hypocrite... and when i say that i mean... your crying about leaking info right? ... but you yourself is leaking info about the very code of conduct you are protecting? duh-

Posted by: nskgti23

Quote:

Originally Posted by sevensinz777

... hypocrite... and when i say that i mean... your crying about leaking info right? ... but you yourself is leaking info about the very code of conduct you are protecting? duh-

What the hell are you talking about? I'm not leaking sensitive information on the net. I simply said that there is a CORPORATE CODE OF CONDUCT that is in place at most major US companies. This is not a trade secret or some special code that cingular holds...

So before you call me a hypocrite, think about what you say and post something useful...

Posted by: .7

There's no more to say on this thread. I cant see anything more than everyone going back and forth from here on out.