vB Easy Archive - Unbranded flexes + updated flashes for SLVR L7?

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Unbranded flexes + updated flashes for SLVR L7?
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Posted by: gbcue

Are there any clean (unbranded) flexes for the SLVR L7 yet?

How about any updated flashes?

Thanks!

Posted by: gbcue

Would they be the RAZR flash/flexes?

Posted by: Flying h4x0r

I don't think razr flashes would work on the slvr. The code groups need to be in the same address...

Posted by: drporf

I agree, I dont think the v3 software will work; you will definately have a nice paperweight if you try. I guess we will all have to wait for someone to release the goodies for the L7.

Posted by: Rassilon

Why would someone put a v3 flex on a SLVR?

Posted by: gbcue

I guess I'll need to wait for the new flexes like Engineering and stuff...

Posted by: tco

has anyone had any luck finding unbranded flex

Posted by: Rassilon

Might have to wait for one of the motorola leaks to release it.

Posted by: nekcdt

There's one at gocellular.org

Posted by: Rassilon

It might be branded though.
SLVR L7 German RETAIL flash
R4513_G_08.B7.DAR_RB PDS015 LP0039 DRM0101 JPJAVA_G_08_L7_06_00_03R_SE4639AB1F110C_1FF

Posted by: nekcdt

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rassilon

It might be branded though.
SLVR L7 German RETAIL flash
R4513_G_08.B7.DAR_RB PDS015 LP0039 DRM0101 JPJAVA_G_08_L7_06_00_03R_SE4639AB1F110C_1FF

It works with my SLVR flawlessly

And I'm not in Germany

Posted by: djdownhill

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rassilon

It might be branded though.
SLVR L7 German RETAIL flash
R4513_G_08.B7.DAR_RB PDS015 LP0039 DRM0101 JPJAVA_G_08_L7_06_00_03R_SE4639AB1F110C_1FF

If I'm not mistaken the flex is a stock unbranded Moto SE Euorpean flex.

Posted by: nekcdt

dj is correct
Flex version: SE4639AB1F110C
Technology: Quad-Band GSM
S/W version: R4513_G_08.B7.DAR_RB
DSP S/W Version: 631F1F00
Language List: 0039
Data Ready: Yes
Browser Ready: Yes
Mp3 Ready: Yes

Posted by: gbcue

So it doesn't got on a SLVR, then, but a vxxx series?

Posted by: nekcdt

After flashing it, if you get the message: "Flex error - Phone Subsidy locked", connect your phone to P2K Commander, browse to a/mobile/system/ and delete the file secure_pds_init. Do not restart your phone, unplug it from the USB cable first, then goto Menu > Settings > Personalise > Greeting and delete it. Now restart the phone and the message is gone.

Posted by: phattbam

I"m using it right now.. it's great.. unbranded

Posted by: gbcue

Does this flex re-lock your phone?

Posted by: phattbam

nope... unbranded unlocked.

Posted by: coooie

I just bought the L7, and I don't know how to flash or unlock it. I don't know what tools are needed to flash. If anybody can help, I would appreciate it.

Thanks

Posted by: hogprint

Question about the flash, when I extract it the file extension is *.sbf and my PST program won't recognize it. I am new to Moto from SE and wonder if I should just change the file extension or am I missing something?

Posted by: djdownhill

You need the latest version of RSD lite 2.3
PST is going away in the future with the addition of the .sbf files now out by Motorola and PST not being able to read this format.

Google is your friend.

Posted by: andyahs

Quote:

Originally Posted by hogprint

Question about the flash, when I extract it the file extension is *.sbf and my PST program won't recognize it. I am new to Moto from SE and wonder if I should just change the file extension or am I missing something?

The .sbf extension requires the latest version of RSD Lite v2.3. You will need to google for it.

Posted by: hogprint

Thanks for the tips.

Posted by: hogprint

kee-rhyst that proggie is hard to find......... good thing I have a rudimentary knowledge of German.......

Posted by: hogprint

Found everything and with a few workarounds I have the new software on my L7. Thanks to this forum I have my unbranded unlocked SLVR L7.

Cheers............

Posted by: sandboy

Does this flash/flex file allow you to change the right soft-key on UK Voda-cra**ed phones so that it doesn't point to Vodafone LIVE?

Only asking cos I can't find my USB cable

I know it's here somewhere....

Posted by: Flying h4x0r

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandboy

Does this flash/flex file allow you to change the right soft-key on UK Voda-cra**ed phones so that it doesn't point to Vodafone LIVE?

Yeah, thats annoying, the seem edit doesn't fix it, so hopefully this flash will

And i'm tired of the 12 item menu, and the goofy looking vodafone icons...

Posted by: Flying h4x0r

i just flashed mine, and all that is gone!

Posted by: coooie

When you flash, do you have to remove the sim card first or leave it in when flashing?

Posted by: Flying h4x0r

i don't think it matters, i left mine in, i also left my t-flash card in

Posted by: hogprint

Same here. I left both in.

Posted by: laffingbilly

hey, did your vodafone branded ones come with itunes?

Posted by: Flying h4x0r

no message is too short

Posted by: xliteit

If I have a Cingular sim card, but an unbranded/unlocked Slvr, is there any info I need from my old Cingular phone settings that I'll need to enter into my new Slvr? Such as text msg/voicemail setup settings? Just wondering, I'm getting a Slvr in the mail soon and before I ship off my cingular Razr I want to make sure I have all the info I need.

Posted by: nandosze

Yes, you will need to enter your websessions information for web access/mms messages. You will also need to edit a seem to enable voicemail setup in order to put your vm # in. Mine wanted to dial 211 for vm. Websessions can be deleted from the phone with some p2k s/w and the new ones can be delivered ota from the cingular web site/support area in your account. You will also have the annoying vm icon msg that you will need to seem edit. It might be easier to just flash to the unbranded one thats flying around here. I am waiting another few days since I already edited my seems and websessions. Id rather wait and let a few more people try it out.

Good Luck.

BTW, all this info was found at the motox forums and here at Hofo so just search for the specific problems.

Posted by: xliteit

I think I'm going to just flash the phone instead of dealing with seem editing. Flashing it should get everything working properly right? (Like no vodafone icons.) Besides entering the Cingular setup settings, which I'll do afterwards.

Posted by: Flying h4x0r

Quote:

Originally Posted by xliteit

I think I'm going to just flash the phone instead of dealing with seem editing. Flashing it should get everything working properly right? (Like no vodafone icons.) Besides entering the Cingular setup settings, which I'll do afterwards.

Yes, that is what i did. The Vodafone one was just way to hard to unbrand. Now that all of that is gone, this phone is easier to customize to my own liking.

Posted by: phattbam

Flashing it is faster, but I like having Vodafone's icons, the stock Moto icons are plain.

Posted by: Flying h4x0r

Quote:

Originally Posted by phattbam

Flashing it is faster, but I like having Vodafone's icons, the stock Moto icons are plain.

I agree that the stock icons are plain, but I thought the vodafone icons are even more bland...

You could try out one of the 3D icon packs from motomodders.net, you'd probably like those better.

EDIT: What were the TIM icons like?

Posted by: sandboy

Quote:

Originally Posted by phattbam

Flashing it is faster, but I like having Vodafone's icons, the stock Moto icons are plain.

There is a skin on MotoX or gocellular (Vodafone red) that I had on my V3 that has the Voda icons embedded in it. Maybe that would work on the L7.. That is, if the skins are compatible.

Posted by: phattbam

I've been using the skins and they work fine. I like the vodafone icons over the stock ones since they stand out better.

Posted by: tigernet

...just to re-ask a question earlier in this thread...I have never flashed a phone before, but want to do so with my SLVR L7...

...could someone post a step by step guide (idiot's version with no assumptions of knowledge) or point me to one...

Thanks in advance...

Cheers
Nick

Posted by: Flying h4x0r

has anyone tried installing a language pack on this phone yet?

Posted by: sandboy

Quote:

Originally Posted by phattbam

I've been using the skins and they work fine. I like the vodafone icons over the stock ones since they stand out better.

Whereabouts do you put the skins?

I flashed my phone earlier (took a while, I was on tenterhooks). Got it connected up to P2Kcommander, but there was no mention of either 'pictures' or 'skins' in the right hand side of the screen. And when I was connected to P2KMAN there was a list on the left hand side of the screen and when I clicked on each item nothing came up on the other side of the screen.

There seems to be 2 drives (an 'A' and a 'C'). Are they in the 'C' drive? If so, how do I access it?

Posted by: CadilacCTS

I am also looking for a simple step by step guide to flashing my slvr l7 to be unlocked and unbranded, and hopefully have itunes. Does anyone have this available and willing to share? Thanks. Really appriciate any help I can get!

Posted by: aparadektos

Just got hold of my SLVR L7 V*****E branded phone.
Flex = SE5535AXXG50E2
S/W = R4513_G_08.B7.5DR_RB
DSP = 61381B00

1) I need drivers & sync software for Outlook
2) Looking for instructions to unbrand (I have PK software.....)
3) iTunes ?

anybody PM please

Posted by: Flying h4x0r

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandboy

There seems to be 2 drives (an 'A' and a 'C'). Are they in the 'C' drive? If so, how do I access it?

yes, all the skins are on the C drive

Posted by: Flying h4x0r

For all you newbies who want a step by step guide to flash your phone, heres what we have tco has made so far:

http://slvr.wikispaces.com/

We'll add more on there later, but for now you guys can search the threads and find the information you need... everything you need is alread on this forum..

Posted by: tigernet

...many thanks from all us 'newbies'...

(been lurking for over a year but never had a need to post till now!!!)

Cheers
Nick

Posted by: tigernet

...great advice on that page...

...however, RSD Lite 1.6 did not ask me for drivers, and will not see .rar files to open the flex/flash file...

...any ideas...

Cheers
Nick

Posted by: tco

Quote:

Originally Posted by tigernet

...great advice on that page...

...however, RSD Lite 1.6 did not ask me for drivers, and will not see .rar files to open the flex/flash file...

...any ideas...

Cheers
Nick

I updated the page with the following...

NOTE: This file is archived using RAR compression. RAR is similar to .ZIP. You will need to get a utility to support RAR decompresion/archiving. WinRAR is a good choice. It is a commercial product that has the option to try it for FREE.

Did RSD see your phone? If so the drivers were already installed.

Posted by: tigernet

...that would be it then!!! Thanks for that...yes, RSD has seen the phone - I will try the flash in an hour or so and let you know how I get on...

Cheers
Nick

Posted by: phattbam

i dont know if that version would work. I used rsd lite 2.3 and I've flashed 3 of the 4 L7s I've gotten. Just received 4th yesterday.

Posted by: laffingbilly

man, just got the black slvr l7 today. it rocks. like the looks alot. had originally bought silver on ebay, but seller changed to black no extra charge. the seller rocks, too.

Posted by: tigernet

...ok...tried all the above...and got RSD lite 2.3...can now see the file, but when I click show device, nothing hqappens...

...am I missing something obvious?

Thanks in advance again for the help...

Cheers
Nick

Posted by: sandboy

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flying h4x0r

yes, all the skins are on the C drive

Found them!!!!!!! Needed to d/l p2ktools 0.8.6 as nothing else would let me access them.

I now have an unbranded MotoX'd SLVR and I love it!!!!!!

Just need to get it unlocked now

Posted by: laffingbilly

what about seem edits? is there a comprehensive list of seem edits yet?

sure would like itunes as well. the mp3 player on the thing stinks having to wait for java to load.

definitely better reception than my razr.

Posted by: phattbam

similar to those used on the Vxxx model phones. would like to get the timeout clock displayed

Posted by: Flying h4x0r

yeah, the time out clock is the biggest thing i want on this phone.

Posted by: phattbam

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flying h4x0r

yeah, the time out clock is the biggest thing i want on this phone.

have you seem edited anything on the phone?

Posted by: comandiniuk

Not quite sure. Is it possible to use PST to flash the L7? I managed to acquire an unlocked (voda branded) silver SLVR (very nice too) and obviously now want to get it back to factory settings standard but have never used RSD Lite before. I have d/loaded the program and everything but just wondered if anyone had ried using PST to flash? I am no newbie by any means but couldn't find a definitive answer. Any help would be much appreciated!!

Posted by: phattbam

I tried using pst and it gave my brand new L7 a corrupt code. I had to bring it back to life with the rsd lite 2.3

Posted by: xliteit

Wow. OK so I received my new L7 a few days ago, and being the noob that I am, did not realize how lucky I was. You see I received the "special" and rare Slvr that comes in a white box, completely unbranded/unlocked OUT OF THE BOX brand new, no vodafone, no tim logos anywhere. However, just today I flashed it with the German retail flash. BIG MISTAKE.

Now the date is wrong. Can't figure out how to change that, don't really feel like having to deal with anything except flashing which is the easiest for a noob like me. Anyway, if anyone knows where I can find the ORIGINAL retail moto oem flash (no brands and not the german retail 4513 that everyone has) then Please let me know. I doubt that anyone can find it or knows where it is because everyone would have that one instead. But it's worth a post to try.

*edit* Does anyone else have any problems with a wrong date display? Mine displays Apr '06. Clearly a problem. I've tried restarting, resetting, etc. If anyone's had this problem and/or found a solution please let me know. It's starting to bother me more and more and I can't find a way to edit the date. Also my time display is military time. I would like to change that also.

Posted by: gbcue

You should have backed up...

Posted by: laffingbilly

Quote:

Originally Posted by xliteit

Wow. OK so I received my new L7 a few days ago, and being the noob that I am, did not realize how lucky I was. You see I received the "special" and rare Slvr that comes in a white box, completely unbranded/unlocked OUT OF THE BOX brand new, no vodafone, no tim logos anywhere. However, just today I flashed it with the German retail flash. BIG MISTAKE.

the flash does not have autodate update enabled on it. the same seem edits to enable it works. i've been doing some playing around with the seems and it is basically the same as the razr.

i prefer p2kman, but don't know how to force it to divide the /a and /c folders. p2kcommander works, but i'm so use to p2kman

Posted by: Flying h4x0r

Quote:

Originally Posted by xliteit

man... that sucks... why did you flash it when you already had an unbranded version?

look at XLR8's seem map, and look through it to see if you can fix any of those...

the date can be fixed by enabling the autoupdate seem, or by manually setting the time and date in the initial settings menu

Posted by: tigernet

Quote:

Originally Posted by tigernet

...ok...tried all the above...and got RSD lite 2.3...can now see the file, but when I click show device, nothing hqappens...

...am I missing something obvious?

Thanks in advance again for the help...

Cheers
Nick

...help!!! Don't know where to go from here...

Cheers
Nick

Posted by: Flying h4x0r

it sounds like the computer can't see your phone...

have you installed drivers?

made sure that the USB connection settings are "DATA and FAX"?

try installing MPT and see if that can find your phone

Posted by: tigernet

...sees the phone fine with MPT...hooks up no probs...

...scratches head again!!!

Cheers
Nick

Posted by: xliteit

One thing I noticed when flashing my Slvr with RSD Lite is that for your computer to recognize it (if you're running windows xp), then there will be about 4 different windows prompts that ask you to install drivers for the phone. I had to point each one to the same C:/common files/motorola directory. After I did that though it recognized it with no problem. The scary thing was though, as I was flashing it, a windows prompt came up and asked me to install the drivers. If i didn't use my intuition and point to folder and just backed out and quit, I probably would have had a paperweight. So all You XP users out there who have this problem, just follow the prompt and point the drivers to the motorola drivers folder.

Posted by: Flying h4x0r

when it asked for drivers during the flash, i pointed to the same folder, but my comptuer took a while to finish installing it...

and RSD said "Flash failed.." i freaked out at first, but i just pushed start again, and it resumed where it left off.. so don't worry

Posted by: tigernet

...hmmm...I was never asked for drivers though...I have the drivers installed and MPT sees the phone...could it be because I am using a USB hub??

Cheers
Nick

Posted by: tco

Tigernet....try to install pk2commander....see if it prompts you to install drivers when you launch the appliaction. See if p2kcommander sees the phone...see if you can browse the a nd c drives.

Posted by: joe_le_taxi

hi guys!

it's my first post here =)
i've been reading this threads and learning and so..and i flashed my L7 with that "L7-R4513_G_08.B7.DAR.rar" file ...suppose it would become a deutch-phone but no. it's ok, in portuguese (it's my language, i'm in portugal). i guess it has also english.

the question and the reason for my post is that trying seem editing it's a lost of time....the map at xlr8 wonderful page (yes it's very very good explained, thanks xlr8) don't apply to our mobile. because of different addressing? don't know...but it's not the same, so be careful with seem edit. i think i'm not wrong but i sleeped only 4 hours last night.. =P

i don't beliave i'm the first guy to discover this lol..so if someone knows where to get a map to seem addressing of our L7s post here something please.

here is a link to detail this a bit:

http://mega.ist.utl.pt/~jcxa/3D_offset_printscreen.JPG

note that if the addresses were the same as the ones at xlr8 page here at 3D offset we've should have 0x00000001 and not 0x10101111, right?

again: if someone discover a valid map please post it =)

cheers

Posted by: laffingbilly

any try to upload itunes java? i think i have a corrupt itunes java file. it's not doing it. i'm having some problem actually using any java with the slvr. i think it is pst that i'm having problem with. not identifying the correct port.

Posted by: sandboy

Quote:

Originally Posted by tco

Tigernet....try to install pk2commander....see if it prompts you to install drivers when you launch the appliaction. See if p2kcommander sees the phone...see if you can browse the a nd c drives.

You can't browse the C drive with p2kCommander. You willll have to use p2kTools 0.8.6.

Posted by: Flying h4x0r

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe_le_taxi

hi guys!

it's my first post here =)
i've been reading this threads and learning and so..and i flashed my L7 with that "L7-R4513_G_08.B7.DAR.rar" file ...suppose it would become a deutch-phone but no. it's ok, in portuguese (it's my language, i'm in portugal). i guess it has also english.

the question and the reason for my post is that trying seem editing it's a lost of time....the map at xlr8 wonderful page (yes it's very very good explained, thanks xlr8) don't apply to our mobile. because of different addressing? don't know...but it's not the same, so be careful with seem edit. i think i'm not wrong but i sleeped only 4 hours last night.. =P

i don't beliave i'm the first guy to discover this lol..so if someone knows where to get a map to seem addressing of our L7s post here something please.

here is a link to detail this a bit:

http://mega.ist.utl.pt/~jcxa/3D_offset_printscreen.JPG

note that if the addresses were the same as the ones at xlr8 page here at 3D offset we've should have 0x00000001 and not 0x10101111, right?

again: if someone discover a valid map please post it =)

cheers

i found that most of the offsets on xlr8's map also apply to the L7

Posted by: nekcdt

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandboy

You can't browse the C drive with p2kCommander. You willll have to use p2kTools 0.8.6.

Simply not true.
Click Options and select which drive you want to use. Hit Re-Read and it works fine.

Posted by: laffingbilly

^^correct,
at the top of the window in p2kcommander, select options. top right of the dialogue box will allow you to switch between a, b, c (b being for transfer flash card). don't forget to re-read. however, p2kcommander seems to crash every so often.

on a separate note, anyone get any programs to read the java on the SLVR? i've tried p2k tools and Midway, but neither pick up any java programs even though there are four on the SLVR. also, i tried the itunes java program installation with midway. midway succeeded in installing on the phone, but the phone does not show it as a selection when you go to Games & Apps. anyone succeed to getting any java games or apps on the SLVR and working?

Posted by: phattbam

have you tried changing it? Sorry if you have but try this:
Menu > settings > initital setup > time and date > ** if autoupdate is on switch it off> change date go to format and switch it to whichever one you prefer, and go to time and switch 24 hr to am or pm. I hope that helps. I dont know if you've tried. I didnt read anywhere on your post that you have or not.. good luck

Posted by: xgman

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe_le_taxi

P2K advanced editor seems to map it somewhat.

Posted by: xliteit

Quote:

Originally Posted by phattbam

have you tried changing it? Sorry if you have but try this:
Menu > settings > initital setup > time and date > ** if autoupdate is on switch it off> change date go to format and switch it to whichever one you prefer, and go to time and switch 24 hr to am or pm. I hope that helps. I dont know if you've tried. I didnt read anywhere on your post that you have or not.. good luck

I'm guessing that post was directed towards me because I was the one with the time/date problem..but anyway yes I tried that and now the date/time is set correctly. However I don't even want my SLVR any more but thats besides the point

Posted by: krappy

please dont discuss sem editing here... this thread is for Flashes and FLexes

Posted by: joe_le_taxi

hey krapp please tell me where is the thread for "seem editing" for our SLVR.

Posted by: phattbam

Quote:

Originally Posted by xliteit

What happened? please do tell

Posted by: xgman

On the German flash auto time/date is not available.

Posted by: phattbam

seem edits are necessary.

Posted by: xgman

yes, I have used search, can anyone link the P2KTools 0.8.6 please? Thanks.

Posted by: phattbam

try gocellular.org or motomodders.net

Posted by: xgman

found thanks.

Posted by: laffingbilly

Quote:

Originally Posted by xliteit

man, if you don't want your SLVR, i'll take it. i'm sure if there is a seem thread, you would probably find that most of the seems for the razr work the same for the slvr.

hopefully, there will be some other flexes/flashes out there.

i also think that the programs for modding the slvr will come around too. i'm not sure, but i think there is an issue with installing java using midway or p2ktools since i can install things but they do not show up in my java games & app lists. then there is the right smart key button.

Posted by: Marecki

Hi guys, can I use this flash R4513_G_08.B7.DAR_RB... on my v360? The software series is the same as for V360 but are these phones compatible?

Posted by: phattbam

I wouldnt try it. L7 is a bar phone. v360 is a flip. you might not get things to function properly.

Posted by: Marecki

Quote:

Originally Posted by phattbam

I wouldnt try it. L7 is a bar phone. v360 is a flip. you might not get things to function properly.

I don't think that's a problem, it's similar to C980 and V980 where f/w is the same. I'd give a try if I had a reflash instead of a monster. Can any one post a reflash? SHXCoDec doesn't read sbf files so I can't make a reflash myself.

Posted by: Poe408

is there any way to install language packs on the l7? specifically, traditional chinese?

Posted by: krappy

cant do flash v360 on the L7 the new LTE platform wont let you do it, and they have different bootloaders...

Posted by: ccparkhill

Can anybody tell me how to unlock an L7 on o2?

Posted by: feverfive

Quote:

Originally Posted by ccparkhill

Can anybody tell me how to unlock an L7 on o2?

You trying to get this thread locked?? Read the rules...

Posted by: Moderator HF 22

Quote:

Originally Posted by ccparkhill

Can anybody tell me how to unlock an L7 on o2?

Read the rules before posting.

Posted by: photomo

Has anyone managed to successfully backup their existing SLVR firmware? I've tried using the latest version of FlashBackup (which I think is 2.59 Beta), yet it gives me a critical error 84 on the phone....probably due to an unsupported bootloader (08.D0).

I really want to flash with the unbranded firmware, but don't want to take the risk without a backup of my current firmware. I'd be grateful if anyone could tell me whether it is possible to do a backup.

Cheers.

Posted by: ng12345

aslo looking for a way to backup my current flash/flex

mine is unbranded and comptely fine; but before i start doing menu edits and stuff (trying to get airplane mode on it); i want to have a safe backjp

N

Posted by: TheBlueRaja

Hi All,
Ran in the Firmware in this thread - but i still dont get the option to Automatically lock the Keypad with this firmware - is everyone else having this issue?

Is there any firmware available that has that option?

This site has two more firmware versions available but there is not much info to go with them so i havent tried these out yet.

Anyone here tried them - and if so do you get the automatic keypad lock option?

Posted by: jacster99

Hi,

Got as far as installing RSD Lite 2.3 - when it came to doing whatever is needed in RSD my phone was not recognised. When i say this, i mean nothing happens and my phone does not show up.

Any pointers?

Many thanks!

Posted by: Foosh9

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flying h4x0r

For all you newbies who want a step by step guide to flash your phone, heres what we have tco has made so far:

http://slvr.wikispaces.com/

We'll add more on there later, but for now you guys can search the threads and find the information you need... everything you need is alread on this forum..

This doesn't tell us anything about how to flash a SLVR. I don't see how any of this is remotely useful. I've been searching these forums for 4 hours and find nothing to tell me how to flash a SLVR L7 with Chinese firmware. I'm soooooo frsutrated.

Posted by: phattbam

google this RSD Lite 2.4, and check out gocellular.org for flash files..

Posted by: cowboys93

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foosh9

Here are some places to START:

Motorola Phone Section of Hofo:
http://howardforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=315

http://howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=843194

http://howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=802937

http://howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=842804

Cingular Phones:

http://howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=764194

Also, motomodders.net is an excellent source of information .

FYI, the only way to achieve what you want is to read and research BEFORE attempteing to mod your phone. Heck, I just recently completed my first seem edit on my V600 after almost 2 years!!

While not specific to the chinese info you seek, the above links should give you more than enough data.

Posted by: phattbam

^^ that's someone who took some time out to help.. honestly though.. research is the key and patience.

Posted by: Foosh9

Quote:

Originally Posted by phattbam

google this RSD Lite 2.4, and check out gocellular.org for flash files..

I've done both and I am on an endless tour through every cell phone forum known to man. 6 hours on this and not one person can tell me in steps 1, 2, 3...

HOW TO FLASH A SLVR L7 WITH THE CHINESE LANGUAGE PACKAGE FIRMWARE SO I CAN USE ISYNC ON MY MAC WITH THE SLVR. SOMEBODY, PLEASE HELP.

Posted by: cowboys93

WOW...asking for help...getting several helpful direct links....responds with yelling (all caps)

FWIW, NOBODY is going to hold you hand here buddy. There are stickies, How-to's etc. Search, read and you may learn enough to help the next person out.

did you see "There's one at gocellular.org"

I am officially done monitoring this thread.

Posted by: phattbam

well let's start by telling us what you have so far... have you downloaded the flash file?

Posted by: Foosh9

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowboys93

THanks for the help. Didn't mean to scream but my hands were getting sore from pulling my hair out. I''ve been reading and reading. Still have absolutely no clue what anyone is talking about and about to give up but I appreciate youyr input.

Posted by: Foosh9

Quote:

Originally Posted by phattbam

well let's start by telling us what you have so far... have you downloaded the flash file?

No, I can't find it. Do I download it on my Mac? Someone said it would only work on a PC.

Posted by: phattbam

http://www.gocellular.org/modules.p...download&sid=12

if you check now. it's the 7th one down from the top..

Posted by: Foosh9

Thanks. I must be thick as a brick. I logged in to gocellular.com I hit the link, it says I am not authorized. I log in and then can't get the link. 7th down from the top on Flash_Flex files? THere are 6 on the page and no way to get to the 7th. I'm not that comoputer stupid. This is just making me nuts. Thanks for your help and patience.

Posted by: Foosh9

Quote:

Originally Posted by phattbam

http://www.gocellular.org/modules.p...download&sid=12

if you check now. it's the 7th one down from the top..

I got it downloaded on my Mac. Now what do I do with it? What do I do next? Sorry. THanks for your help on this.

Posted by: Foosh9

Quote:

Originally Posted by phattbam

http://www.gocellular.org/modules.p...download&sid=12

if you check now. it's the 7th one down from the top..

THis looks like new Firmware but I don't know what to do with it.

http://forum.gsmserver.com/showthread.php?t=1603

Posted by: phattbam

As others have posted, you need to us a PC to run rsd lite 2.4 in order to flash anything. The one I pointed out has Chinese on it. the one you just linked may not..

Posted by: Foosh9

Quote:

Originally Posted by phattbam

As others have posted, you need to us a PC to run rsd lite 2.4 in order to flash anything. The one I pointed out has Chinese on it. the one you just linked may not..

Thanks for all your help. The issue was not using a PC, but a Mac, all along. Going to try it with a PC tomorrow. I hope I'm not back!

Posted by: phattbam

if you dont want to come back.. what's that all about? did you not get any help from the members here?

Posted by: cantuchristoph

that means that it worked and he doesnt need to come back for help. relax man.

Posted by: phattbam

I guess. but it seems like he didn't appreciate the help. maybe it's the wording being used.

Posted by: cowboys93

I took it as the OP realized the "issue" was he needed to use a PC. So, after realizing this and having access to a PC...he/she should not need to come back.

Unless they want to say thanks!!

Posted by: Foosh9

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowboys93

I took it as the OP realized the "issue" was he needed to use a PC. So, after realizing this and having access to a PC...he/she should not need to come back.

Unless they want to say thanks!!

You are the sensitive one. Easily offended by things like all caps for emphasis (not yelling). I appreciate all the help you guys have, especially phattbam" who didn't just point me at the ocean and say, "There's dinner, just find it". Believe it or not some of us don't use these forums all the time and just need help getting a problem solved without reading the history of cell phones. Anyway, maybe that goes with the extensive knowledge you guys have. I do appreciate the help. Haven't been able to get a PC to get this done yet, but if it works it will be really neat, Meanwhile it was a much better use of my time to key the 500+ contacts I had in manually. Some things are better left to the pros! I ain't one, no doubt about it!

Posted by: cowboys93

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foosh9

I am not sensitive at all. As a matter of fact, I truly hope you are able to flas/flex or seem edit your phone and don't fry it in the process.

I made no reference to your use of ALL CAPS , so I really don't understand why you "QUOTED" my post when responding to somebodyelse's ISSUE with you using ALL CAPS and NOT COMINING BACK.

One again, good luck and let us know how it turns out for you!

Posted by: krappy

lol is it just me or i cant modd my cingular flashed L7? i cant get it to connect to the computer... neither can i get my v3i to connect too..... but my other unbranded L7 w/o itunes will connect.... and yes it is in data/fax in the usb settings....

Posted by: Foosh9

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowboys93

Thanks, I do appreciate the help. Going to try it tonight. If it frys the phone it won't be the worst thing, this has been a ridiculous waste of energy. I would never reccomend any amatuer buying an unloced phone, EVER.

By the way, do you have any idea if the new firmware will allow the phone to get e-mail from Cingular? The selections for e-mail provider under e-mail account setup are "Vodaphone-eMail", "E-Plus E-Mail", "o2 Email" and "Custom". It needs to be mMode e-mail but there is no way to change "Custom" to "mMode e-mail". I don't think this firmware will solve this issue until someone finds a Cingular firmware patch.

Posted by: phattbam

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foosh9

Meanwhile it was a much better use of my time to key the 500+ contacts I had in manually. Some things are better left to the pros! I ain't one, no doubt about it!

email me.. or PM me.. I'll help you out with the time I have available.. mobile phone tools is what you need. so if you can find that you're good to go... otherwise just feel free to ask. you have been offered help by me.

Posted by: Foosh9

Quote:

Originally Posted by phattbam

Thank you, that is very cool of you!

I'll try later today or this evening after I get the PC lined up.

Posted by: Foosh9

Quote:

Originally Posted by phattbam

THanks again. The friend with the PC has a RAZR with Mobile Phone Tools (my SLVR came without any of the software but since I have a Mac it wouldn't be useful anyway). Should I change the settings with the Mobile phone tool program on his PC? He's downloaded the firmware changes and we're going to fix my phone or dry it on his PC. We may as well try the Mobile phone tools at the same time.

Posted by: phattbam

what exactly was it you want to do to your phone? Update the language to Chinese and add phone contacts through MPT??

Posted by: Foosh9

Quote:

Originally Posted by phattbam

what exactly was it you want to do to your phone? Update the language to Chinese and add phone contacts through MPT??

I have a German firmware SLVR. Someone said to flash it with Chinese firmware. I am trying to get the Bluetooth to work with my Mac and then trying to get my e-mails from mmode with Cingular.

Posted by: Foosh9

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foosh9

I have a German firmware SLVR. Someone said to flash it with Chinese firmware. I am trying to get the Bluetooth to work with my Mac and then trying to get my e-mails from mmode with Cingular.

I flased it successfully but now a lot of my menus and choices are in Chinese. The bluetooth syncs just fine with my Mac but how do I get back to English characters? My Phone book entry categories are all in Chinese.

Posted by: tco

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foosh9

Change the language to English. As far as the catagories go, I'll have to check but I think I had to change these with P2k Advanced Editor. Need to look at my other computer to make sure....I'll let you know.

Posted by: Foosh9

Quote:

Originally Posted by tco

Writing from the local mental institution in between electric shock therapy and typing with my nose due to the straightjacket. Flashed the phone, then iSync'd it with my Mac. Got all my contacts but the categories and some of the menus were in Chinese characters. THen flashed it again with some firmware someone else gave me from MotoModders Forum. This time the Chinese characters went away and it still connected with Bluetooth to my Mac. So I iSync'd it again (meanwhile the phone was all set up with the old German firmware before I flashed it and of course, all that was lost completely) and this time it modified the Address Book on my iSync by erasing all my contacts. I changed SIM cards back to my old Nokia 6620 and iSync'd that to get the contacts back on iSync and then put the SIM card back in the SLVR. I went to sync it again and lost some of the contacts (maybe 10%) and ALL the contacts were now first name last name. Sooooo, right before they came to get me, I was busy manually changing all the contacts back to last name first name. There is no shot at all to get the right mmode so I can get e-mail. If Cingular didn't have such awful service compared to Verizon I'd go get a real SLVR and trash this one. But I'm an old AT&T customer and I don't want to migrate to Cingular and get a Cingular contract. When I get out of this rubber room, I'm going to try to see if backing over it with my car will help. Thanks for your help, gotta go my straw and breakfast are here.

Posted by: phattbam

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foosh9

I PMed you about that.. you can delete all of them except general. you can create a new one and call it general in english

seems like you're a Cingular Blue user, try this

http://secure.mouse2mobile.com/clie...iguredevice.asp

if Orange use this

https://secure.mouse2mobile.com/cli...iguredevice.asp

Posted by: cowboys93

Foosh...

Keep in mind that the phone is new in the USA. You have gone through a great deal of pain, and after you get it right, you will be the source for your fellow HOFO members!

Posted by: tco

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foosh9

When you say mail..are you talking POP3/IMAP?

Posted by: scargo02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foosh9

...There is no shot at all to get the right mmode so I can get e-mail. If Cingular didn't have such awful service compared to Verizon I'd go get a real SLVR and trash this one. But I'm an old AT&T customer and I don't want to migrate to Cingular and get a Cingular contract...

Hi, I'm new...but...noticed you were looking for mMode on your SLVR...

I also have Cingular Blue (AT&T) and have sucessfully configured mMode and MMS (manual input) using the settings for the V3. Note the GPRS APN setting for both mMode and MMS seems to be "proxy" (no quotes). I have the unlocked German version and was able to put 2 new entries under Web Sessions.

I hope this helps!

Posted by: phattbam

Quote:

Originally Posted by phattbam

use this it's easier.

Posted by: scargo02

Quote:

Originally Posted by phattbam

use this it's easier.

I couldn't get those to work with my L7 (German unbranded/unlocked)...hence why I did it manually.

Posted by: phattbam

that's really strange, because when I was using the German retail flash, I had no issues getting them to configure and work. It's posted if anyone else needs it though.

Posted by: scargo02

Quote:

Originally Posted by phattbam

that's really strange, because when I was using the German retail flash, I had no issues getting them to configure and work. It's posted if anyone else needs it though.

Well hopefully others are able to use your link...as the manual config is tedious.

Posted by: Foosh9

Quote:

Originally Posted by phattbam

I am a Cingular Blue user and I downlloaded all those before I flashed the phone and then again today before your message. Still can't get attachments/pictures but I am receiving e-mails shwoing the attachments. If I sent a picture from my Verizon phone I can download it onto the SLVR but not a pciture sent either as an attachment or embedded in an e-mail sent from my Mac. Here comes the white coats again......

Posted by: scargo02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foosh9

Try the manual setup for MMS...that's the problem I had with the auto-config site for MMS - still didn't work. I can send/receive pictures after doing the manual setup.

Posted by: Foosh9

Quote:

Originally Posted by scargo02

Tried it with someone from CIngular/AT&T support but there is no place to put the Gateway IP on jmy menu so it can't be set up. All the other settings are there but no Gateway IP. Go figure!

Posted by: GottaHaveNextel

Sweet. That software worked perfectly on my vodaphone to get rid of all their crap on it.

Posted by: redragon745

Quote:

Originally Posted by GottaHaveNextel

Sweet. That software worked perfectly on my vodaphone to get rid of all their crap on it.

If you "GottaHaveNextel", why are you with Cingular?

Posted by: GottaHaveNextel

Quote:

Originally Posted by redragon745

If you "GottaHaveNextel", why are you with Cingular?

Nextel for work, cingular for personal

Posted by: scargo02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foosh9

Tried it with someone from CIngular/AT&T support but there is no place to put the Gateway IP on jmy menu so it can't be set up. All the other settings are there but no Gateway IP. Go figure!

Put the Gateway IP setting under Proxy 1 (works for MMS and mMode).

Posted by: Foosh9

Quote:

Originally Posted by scargo02

Put the Gateway IP setting under Proxy 1 (works for MMS and mMode).

Tried that and when I try to launch the browser, I get: 404: PAGE CANNOT BE FOUND

Posted by: scargo02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foosh9

Tried that and when I try to launch the browser, I get: 404: PAGE CANNOT BE FOUND

Don't know what to tell ya then...I had to redo my settings last night after fooling around with an updated flash [R4513_G_08.B7.DCR_RB] but ended up putting it back to the original German image. They still work fine...

Posted by: gotbah

Hey, I am also a ATT user and have the Cingular slvr L7, I was wondering if there is any way that ATT users can use this phone?? I've had this phone for weeks now and still can't figure it out. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.

Posted by: kloquewerk

I am having the same problems as others on here with RSD Lite not being able to detect my phone. MPT can detect it but only when it's using bluetooth. As soon as I open RSD it looks like it starts the bluetooth connection than kicks from phone from being charged with the USB. Any ideas on why I cannot see the device using RSD?

Posted by: kloquewerk

OK, well I finally got RSD to recognize my phone and I did the flash but now my phone won't turn on. The keypad lights come on for a second then turn off. I hope I don't have a paperweight now. Any ideas? This all happened when RSD finished flashing the phone and tried to reboot it. It said to manually turn the phone on and now it won't. HELP!

Posted by: kloquewerk

OK, one more post. I got the phone to work again by flashing it back to the original Cingular flex. I had to hit the "*" and the "#" keys along with the power button to let the phone tranfser files through usb so I could reflash the phone. I guess neither of the new flashes work for me...still don't know why though.

Posted by: scargo02

Does anyone know what's different and/or updated on the R4513_G_08.B7.DCR_RB firmware besides time/date autoupdate and PTT enabled over the standard R4513_G_08.B7.DAR_RB firmware that comes on the German unlocked/unbranded L7s?

I'm assuming DAR --> DCR is the firmware revision?

Posted by: bee

I have a problem when trying to flash, when te bootloader is loaded..and like 31% done..it just Fails...whats the problem?

Posted by: asif_bhushan

Can i flash from e398 to L7...how do i do that..pls help

Posted by: phattbam

I wouldn't try that. they both use different platforms and you might end up with a paperweight.

Posted by: tsunami_splash

i'm just wondering if i can flash the cingular firmware onto my slvr to get itunes.. haha.. j/k.

do we know who is currently active in modding these current firmwares? i'm considering attempting to build a no fuss version that will give come premodelled to rogers wireless specs in terms of WAP settings, wallpaper, etc.

Posted by: phattbam

start it I'm sure there are other members who would appreciate that effort.

Posted by: kloquewerk

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsunami_splash

i'm just wondering if i can flash the cingular firmware onto my slvr to get itunes.. haha.. j/k.

actually you can

Posted by: scargo02

Quote:

Originally Posted by kloquewerk

actually you can

Don't tease like that!

Posted by: kloquewerk

R4517_G_08.C4.1ER_PDS015_LP0003_DRM0101_JPJAVA_G_0 8_L7_01_03_17R_GSTROYBCIN01NA124_1FF.shx

cingular branded flex with iTunes. can only be used with 0A.20 bootloader though so check your version first. flex at your own risk!!

Here!!!

Posted by: SubZ3r0

hey what tools do you use to connect to the slvr l7? i got rsd but all i can do is flash with it *durr*..but if i wanted to copy new themes and what not..what tools do i use?

Posted by: markogin

Quote:

Originally Posted by bee

I have a problem when trying to flash, when te bootloader is loaded..and like 31% done..it just Fails...whats the problem?

What version of RSD are you using??

Posted by: Yze

i wish i had an extra slvr to test this on ;d

Posted by: bee

Quote:

Originally Posted by markogin

What version of RSD are you using??

I use RSD 2.5
I tried smartmoto 1.17 and PST too.....

____________

I have:

Software Version: R44419_G_08.D4.0FR_RB
Flex Version: GSTL7T675CH026 - 1.0.C0.C0.1.C1.0.0.2.C3.C0.2.C1.C2.C3.C3.2.C1.C3.0
Bootloader Version: 08.D0
DRM Version: 0101
Bound
Signature: Allowed

that is a china-mobile branded fw.

I am trying to flash in the R4513 LP0015 fw.

it always fails when entering flashmode..

I get this error: MA type 0 is not spported.
Flash failed error unable to connect to the subscriber unit.
Unable to get string deciptors.

Posted by: markogin

2.5 worked for me, why don't you try a different flash/flex

Posted by: brbreslin

I have a slvr l7 cingular but they sent me a att sim card. now it requires a subsidy password. How do i find this out and/or unlock it?

Posted by: cowboys93

If they sent you a aws sim , you are fortunate. Are you sure they did not migrate you and should have sent an Orange SIM??

Posted by: bee

Quote:

Originally Posted by markogin

2.5 worked for me, why don't you try a different flash/flex

I tried to flash in many different firmwares....nothing will flash.
I always get error when the bootloader loads up,..

RSD gives error: API not supported.
PST says: MA type 0, not supported.
Chipset 9, not supported

Posted by: joe_le_taxi

hi folks!

now that gocellular.org changed their page to a 100% forum how can we get those lovely flashes?! their "download" menu doesn't work at all

at modyomoto there are some flashes but don't know if that guy who maintains it updates all stuff...

help! new updated links with updated flashes needed.....

Posted by: scargo02

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe_le_taxi

hi folks!

now that gocellular.org changed their page to a 100% forum how can we get those lovely flashes?! their "download" menu doesn't work at all

at modyomoto there are some flashes but don't know if that guy who maintains it updates all stuff...

help! new updated links with updated flashes needed.....

I can get to the flashes fine on gocellular, are you registered over there?

Posted by: Rassilon

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe_le_taxi

hi folks!

now that gocellular.org changed their page to a 100% forum how can we get those lovely flashes?! their "download" menu doesn't work at all

at modyomoto there are some flashes but don't know if that guy who maintains it updates all stuff...

help! new updated links with updated flashes needed.....

Nothing wrong with the download section and there are several SLVR L7 firmwares there. Its free and you just need to register for access. We have it set to register because to many other sites were hotlinking to the files. The site isn't 100% forum, only the forum is a forum. The rest of the site is just a different CMS than what we were using since the other CMS was limited in what it could do and it wasn't compatable with vbulletin.

Posted by: milosradic

Hi,

I didnt kill phone, but I was mesing with skins and reflash it and now screen freeze from time to time & I can not enter in camera (to shoot pics) - it says " it is busy now"
so....
I need SE5769AB1H2 flash, TIM network, unlocked so that I can return it back in shop without breaking waranty & take new one.... Or if someone can/have another idea ??? I would apriciate any help..

Posted by: NUTTTR

So.... I looked through another thread and downloaded (and installed) the corelet for iTunes.... it works 100%.... The only way to start the app is to hook it to the computer and 'update' the phone (i've only used motoman itunes equivalent - i haven't tried to see if itunes reads it yet), it opens the app - you can start a song - pause it and hide the app, and it sits in the 'background' on the front screen. Now - i've seen SOMEWHERE that someone had an 'itunes' softkey (right one) on their L7 - i want to know how the person got this - as i need this key to show so i can actually load the app from the phone!
Any help?
Aaron

Posted by: joe_le_taxi

wow! sorry!!! 1000 x sorrys! the site is ok, the downloads are just fine now. i entered gocellular when you folks were updating it i guess... and when i clicked "Download" at the top of the page it made some kind of an error. nevermind

and what about the language of the site? my browser draws some squares, i think it's because the language is not always english in there. right?

Posted by: joe_le_taxi

hi again! i forgot to say: today i played a while with some friend's V3i and it's just equal to my SLVR except the camara which is better, the presence of i-tunes (mine hasn't), and that airplane mode very hidden inside too much menu's options. it still hasn't the ability to permanently turn on delivery reports at sms's menu! she (the owner) still has to turn delivery reports on for each sms message, this is one thing that annoys me in my SLVR...

why motorola engineeres don't update the damn software?!?

Posted by: tigerhuynh87

i have a slvr l7 with 0a.20 bootloaderand the cingularr r4517 is it posible for me to flash the phone with the germen with out it dieing on me and will it turn on?

Posted by: TruBlu01

So what is the latest and greatest unbranded firmware?

Thanks

Posted by: scargo02

Quote:

Originally Posted by TruBlu01

So what is the latest and greatest unbranded firmware?

Thanks

There is no greatest...the three major versions are the DAR_RB, DBR_RB and DCR_RB - all differ slightly (as to what's enabled, some default ringers, pictures and java apps).

Posted by: my merc 4

can someone explain to me what all this flashing and flexing means?

Posted by: phattbam

check out the FAQ section.. it's explained there.

Posted by: my merc 4

link me up?

Posted by: phattbam

http://www.howardforums.com/showthr...threadid=171768

Posted by: my merc 4

well after browsing that faq....i can't figure out what u guys are flexing when talking about th V7 specifically...is it games or are u like over clocking the processor to make it run faster?

Posted by: phattbam

flash is what runs the phone. flex is what some providers flood their phones with.. if you have a Cingular L7 it's probably got media net or something to do with cingular's store to download games and mp3s and such, with an unbranded flash/flex(monster pack) you'll eliminate all that. but keep in mind that you will lose anything stored on the phone. If someone else has anything to correct or add please do so.

Posted by: joe_le_taxi

hey guys there's a new flex at gocellular

check it out!

Posted by: scargo02

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe_le_taxi

hey guys there's a new flex at gocellular

check it out!

It's a R4517 not R4513 and has the 08.C4 bootloader not 08.B7, isn't that the same problem with the Cingular flash on the unbranded/unlocked phones as well?

Posted by: joe_le_taxi

no, you're not getting the right flash file...open your eyes

i've flashed yesterday and everything is fine. but can't discover differences between this and my previous flash thought.

i found that there is no "airplane mode": i edited some seems and turned on everything that said "airplane" but can't do it. the firm don't have it.

the sms messages still don't have delivery reports ON as default but OFF as default, so we still need to change it to ON for each sms message we send.

and that annoying key lock feature still remains "manual" mode. those motorola guys are playing with us

flex: GSTL7RTAT149
software version: R4513_G_08.B7.DCR_RB
S/W DSP version: 631F1F00
Language Pack: 0039

Posted by: markogin

This seems to be an update to the german FW, mine is:

R4513_G_08.B7.DAR_RB

so since yours is DCR_RB must be a newer one

Would be good to know what are the improvements on this FW to know if it's worth an update and loose all the settings...........anybody??

Thanks

Posted by: ng12345

could anyone elaborate on the differences between DAR, DBR, and DCR

i have the DBR firmware ... does not have airplane mode

do either DAR or DCR have this modes?

Posted by: phattbam

the differences between them would be where they originated. languages they support originally but they can be reflashed with new language packs. I can't say I know all the differences but I can say that the DBR does not have airplane mode.

Posted by: scargo02

Quote:

Originally Posted by phattbam

the differences between them would be where they originated. languages they support originally but they can be reflashed with new language packs. I can't say I know all the differences but I can say that the DBR does not have airplane mode.

Nor does DAR or DCR...

Posted by: ng12345

so only the cingular firmware has the airplane mode ... as of right now?

Posted by: scargo02

Quote:

Originally Posted by ng12345

so only the cingular firmware has the airplane mode ... as of right now?

AFAIK, yes.

Posted by: markogin

Has anybody used DAR and DCR and want to share the difference?

Posted by: scargo02

Quote:

Originally Posted by markogin

Has anybody used DAR and DCR and want to share the difference?

DAR = right side button goes to web access, DCR = camera.
DCR = autoupdate & PTT enabled.

That's about it...

Posted by: markogin

Quote:

Originally Posted by scargo02

DAR = right side button goes to web access, DCR = camera.
DCR = autoupdate & PTT enabled.

That's about it...

Thank you, definitely not worth the hassle to change