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Another reason to hate GoPhone

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Posted by: StattlichPassat

I had a similar situation yesterday of two similar guys that came in yesterday to buy five phones outright. Never done that before- very suspicious.

Quote:
Surge in Sale of Disposable Cell Phones May Have Terror Link

Jan. 12, 2006 — Federal agents have launched an investigation into a surge in the purchase of large quantities of disposable cell phones by individuals from the Middle East and Pakistan, ABC News has learned.

The phones — which do not require purchasers to sign a contract or have a credit card — have many legitimate uses, and are popular with people who have bad credit or for use as emergency phones tucked away in glove compartments or tackle boxes. But since they can be difficult or impossible to track, law enforcement officials say the phones are widely used by criminal gangs and terrorists.

"There's very little audit trail assigned to this phone. One can walk in, purchase it in cash, you don't have to put down a credit card, buy any amount of minutes to it, and you don't, frankly, know who bought this," said Jack Cloonan, a former FBI official who is now an ABC News consultant.

Law enforcement officials say the phones were used to detonate the bombs terrorists used in the Madrid train attacks in March 2004.

"The application of prepaid phones for nefarious reasons, is really widespread. For example, the terrorists in Madrid used prepaid phones to detonate the bombs in the subway trains that killed more than 200 people," said Roger Entner, a communications consultant.


150 Phones in One Sale, 60 Phones in Another

The FBI is closely monitoring the potentially dangerous development, which came to light following recent large-quantity purchases in California and Texas, officials confirmed.

In one New Year's Eve transaction at a Target store in Hemet, Calif., 150 disposable tracfones were purchased. Suspicious store employees notified police, who called in the FBI, law enforcement sources said.


In an earlier incident, at a Wal-mart store in Midland, Texas, on December 18, six individuals attempted to buy about 60 of the phones until store clerks became suspicious and notified the police. A Wal-mart spokesperson confirmed the incident.

The Midland, Texas, police report dated December 18 and obtained by ABC News states: "Information obtained by MPD [Midland Police Department] dispatch personnel indicated that approximately six individuals of Middle-Eastern origin were attempting to purchase an unusually large quantity of tracfones (disposable cell phones with prepaid minutes attached)." At least one of the suspects was identified as being from Iraq and another from Pakistan, officials said.

"Upon the arrival of officers, suspects were observed moving away from the registers — appearing to evade detection while ridding themselves of the merchandise."

Other reports have come in from other cities, including Dallas, and from authorities in other states. Authorities in Pennsylvania, New York and other parts of Texas confirmed that they were alerted to the cases, and sources say other jurisdictions were also notified.

The growing use of the throwaway cell phones has been cited by President Bush as an important justification for expanding the wiretap laws under the Patriot Act.

"Law enforcement officials can now use what's now called roving wiretaps, which will prevent a terrorist from switching cell phones to get a message out to one of his buddies," Bush said on April 20, 2004.


Legitimate Uses May Have Spurred Sales, Too

Law enforcement sources say it is possible some large purchases that have been identified as being sent to the Middle East could have been sent for resale in a sellers' market for handsets, or simply given to friends and relatives. Officials are also investigating these possibilities.

Managing the complex balancing of these two issues — significant and legitimate uses and their potential for misuse has been an ongoing dilemma for law enforcement.

For now, both intelligence officers and bomb technicians have been monitoring reports of large-quantity purchases.

Some such purchases may have innocent explanations, but even law enforcement officials themselves say disposable phones are sometimes their own phones of choice when operating in hostile environments. The CIA recently used them in a kidnapping in Milan, Italy. Italian authorities were able to track the telephones. But they mostly tracked them to a dead end — the false identities in which they were purchased.

Possible purchasers of disposable cellular phones could also include political extremists, terrorist supporters, sympathizers or others simply shaken by the recent revelations of the spy agency's widespread monitoring of calls, including calls to and from the United States to foreign countries.


Police Report Identifies Terror Links

The Midland, Texas, arrest report police also identified the individuals as linked to a terror cell:

"Evasive responses provided by the subjects, coupled with actions observed by officers at the onset of the contact prompted the notification of local FBI officials to assist in the investigation," the report said. "Upon the arrival of special agents, and as a result of subsequent interviews, it was discovered that members of the group were linked to suspected terrorist cells stationed within the Metroplex.

Law enforcement officials have not elaborated on the information in the report or specified which terrorist group the individuals were allegedly linked to.

In addition, special agents reported that similar incidents centering on the large-scale purchases of tracfones had been reported throughout the nation — identifying individuals of Middle-Eastern descent as the purchasers."

ABC News is working to confirm the details in the police report.

"Upon conclusion of the initial investigation, three of the suspects were taken into custody on immigration violations, with one individual arrested for possession of marijuana — the drug having been discovered during the search of the group's vehicle. Also found within the green 2002 Kia van were additional cell phones, the total believed to be approximately 60."

FBI officials told ABC News that while the cases may wind up in the hands of Immigrations and Customs Enforcement, the FBI would benefit from any intelligence gleaned and would take the lead if a solid terrorist connection emerged.


http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/Investiga...tory?id=1499905



Posted by: Perceptions

Two Takes on this:

1) Cingular has regulations that state that people who start gophones whether PAYGO or Pick your Plan.

Must be at least 18 years old
Have Valid ID
SSN

Ofcourse this is not enforced because prepay customers usually lack one of the three requirements.

So you have to hold the people who activate go phones (sales rep or CS) accountable .

2) I love the "shock" factor of the article by focusing on their uses for "terrorist activities". I will put money down that illegal uses of go phones are for domestic crimes. Drug dealing, prostitution. money laundering, mob hits, etc etc etc. What percentage of illegal gophone activites do you think "terrorist activities" make up?

"The growing use of the throwaway cell phones has been cited by President Bush as an important justification for expanding the wiretap laws under the Patriot Act."

Good old Joe now thinks, "Hey wiretaps protect me!"

I am not a liberal nut. I just find it funny how the media can twist the perception of society.



Posted by: Imari

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perceptions
Two Takes on this:

1) Cingular has regulations that state that people who start gophones whether PAYGO or Pick your Plan.

Must be at least 18 years old
Have Valid ID
SSN



Must be 18? NO. That's one of the things about prepaids, great for kids
Have valid ID? NO. You can buy one from Wal-Mart with CASH. No ID required
SSN....again, NO! Why would we require an SSN unless we are running your credit, which would put you on a contract, not a prepaid.

I pull up prepaid accounts EVERY day. Typically the only information on their is their NAME, ADDRESS, and sometimes their BIRTHDATE. No SSN or anything else required.



Posted by: gregsmith59

Quote:
Originally Posted by StattlichPassat
I had a similar situation yesterday of two similar guys that came in yesterday to buy five phones outright. Never done that before- very suspicious.



http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/Investiga...tory?id=1499905

In Singapore the government has rules requiring ID. In Singapore I actually had to allow a xerox copy of either a drivers license or passport before I could get the prepaid SIM, and fill out an application.

In Australia I think they have some rules too, so I had a local friend sign up for me. In New Zealand there was no ID required.



Posted by: sheila627

The funny thing is the FBI is probably hot on the track of a phone plus agent store that buys there phones from walmart ot target because it's cheaper than getting them through cingular i'm an agent if i thought walmart would sell me 60 to 150 phones i would probably be on their list to. But walmart does have a policy that if you buy over 3 you have to have manager approval ........ AHHH our tax dollars at work



Posted by: AdmiralAK

Seems like fearmongering to me...



Posted by: dot_null

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmiralAK
Seems like fearmongering to me...

I completely agree. Just another media FUD campaign...



Posted by: Perceptions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Imari
Must be 18? NO. That's one of the things about prepaids, great for kids
Have valid ID? NO. You can buy one from Wal-Mart with CASH. No ID required
SSN....again, NO! Why would we require an SSN unless we are running your credit, which would put you on a contract, not a prepaid.

I pull up prepaid accounts EVERY day. Typically the only information on their is their NAME, ADDRESS, and sometimes their BIRTHDATE. No SSN or anything else required.

You are suppose to ask for that information Imari. Just because you do not do it does not mean it is not impossible to activate. Many sales rep make up the information to a) get the activation done quickly or B) like I said the customer does not have all the information. Better check CSP.



Posted by: anubis9278

well since i use my gophone to make calls to my ex-wifes lawyer I will keep my comments to myself

note: no lawyers have been hurt yet.



Posted by: Perceptions

I use my gophone to call high ranking govt officials

Man how quickly they transfer me to the correct person when my caller ID reads "Osama Bi..."



Posted by: anubis9278

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perceptions
I use my gophone to call high ranking govt officials

Man how quickly they transfer me to the correct person when my caller ID reads "Osama Bi..."



too funny



Posted by: StattlichPassat

Well, the terrorist tie-ins are interesting, but my main concern is in the odds of things, not terrorism, but that probably a lot of these things are being used for illegitimate purposes. And personally, from the looks of most of the people that come in to buy them, I wouldn't be surprised.

There's a reason to have good credit, valid IDs... and there are reasons not. I've never been a fan of our GoPhone program.



Posted by: DonaldMick

So what's going to happen if the US pulls a Japan (IIRC), who banned pre-paid phones without a credit check?

$200 deposit and $200 credit limits for all?



Posted by: CA

As a side note, here in DC there are a lot of illegal immigrants that hang around places like Home Depot for day work. One guy usually, but not always, buys several of them and gives/sells them to the workers. It's kind of like an underground employment office.

Oh no I can see a carrier commercial here!



Posted by: AdmiralAK

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perceptions
I use my gophone to call high ranking govt officials

Man how quickly they transfer me to the correct person when my caller ID reads "Osama Bi..."

bi-platform?
bi-polar?
bi-sexual?

LOL :P
possibilities are endless



Posted by: Canadian Maniac

Prepaid was great for me as a kid, but it really does attract a seedier crowd when it comes to adults.



Posted by: CA

It's also now 30% of revenue. I guess wireless attracts the seedier crowd.



Posted by: StattlichPassat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonix
It's also now 30% of revenue. I guess wireless attracts the seedier crowd.


Where did you hear that from? I highly doubt it.

Prepaid definitely attracts a seedier crowd- you can spot them before they walk in the store. "What do you want to bet that..."



Posted by: cowboys93

Well...

1. The terrosits "link" reported referred to Trac Fone, not Go Phones. Although they may have bought some of those as well.

2. Aren't all pre-paid phones prone to the same abuse (illegal activities)?

3. For me, pre-pay isn't an option. However, I can see the need for parents who decide their underaged child needs a phone. Heck, I bought my 12 year old neice a pre-paid phone and re-up her monthly, just give her MTM access to family members (adults) just in case of an emergency.


The title of this thread and the subject of the original post don't aren't specific to cingular. A better title would be "Another reason to hate prepaid cell phones". Of course, this would only apply to those who are overly paranoid ..but that is a political thread I refuse to start or participate in.



Posted by: CA

Quote:
Originally Posted by StattlichPassat
Where did you hear that from? I highly doubt it.

Prepaid definitely attracts a seedier crowd- you can spot them before they walk in the store. "What do you want to bet that..."
I would have to look for it, but I did post the article with that number and even Quoted it to stick out. Honestly I didn't think it was so high, but with all the Prepay advertising especially Cingular it makes sense.

And they do get the money up front without the cost of billing and collections. I guess if you work in a cell store you may not see a lot of it, but try Walmart, Target, 7Eleven, and every other corner store. These people just want a phone for occasional use..no contract, another bill you gotta pay etc. It always amazes me that when people "go to the clinic" or whatever they think everyone does.

The whole idea of the "wireless industry" is an enigma to me.

If you separate the commission/profit/marketing costs from the billable revenue it leaves the true cost of wireless. Witch is a small fraction to the total. In reality that why they give you m2m and $9.99 family plan rates.

People have chosen contracts only because they have had to. I'm not saying it will stop because there are a lot of users that see a value in spending time on a phone. But as time passes more and more people will get over the wow effect and elect to go prepay.

My true irony is that I have several accounts with a few carriers for business use and I would most of the time rather text someone and not have to constantly do the hello how you doing etc. then get to the point thing.

But that's just me.





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