vB Easy Archive - Secret shops just got worse

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Secret shops just got worse
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Posted by: StattlichPassat

I don't know about your agents, but mine is now slashing your commission by 50% if you score less than an 85% shop.

But that's not the bad part. Don't ask the shopper about how they use their phone (business or personal, how many minutes they use), and get 10 points deducted. Don't ask about their travelling preferences and show them places on the map for the ALLOVER network, another 10 point deduction. This is getting very, very nasty. Just when I thought it was about time it was going to start easing up.

Frankly, I'm insulted. I'm a great rep and work my butt off harder than most anyone else in my area, but it doesn't matter to them and I'm being threatened with my job financially regardless. This reinforced policy says, "We don't trust you, we don't like you, and we want you gone." Do they really not want us around any longer? Are they really trying to piss us off and make us quit? They have no care for those of us who actually want to stick around as long as possible and move up into the company's corporate ranks... unless they don't want us to. This is a piss-poor business move at the level they're implementing it at. I've been manager-hungry lately to move up and get my own store this year, but with all this taking place, it's really made me shy away from such thoughts and think twice... because there are even stiffer deductions from your quarterly bonus now.

If they really don't want us around anymore and are going to treat us like that, I'll leave just as soon as I find a new job.

Posted by: Rcadden

Didn't you already leave once? When are these policies going into effect? My buddy who works here in Keller says he hasn't heard any of these new policies.

Posted by: SE Aholic

Did you ever think there is a cost/loss to your agents business if they do not maintain a score above 85%. My understanding is that in some areas of the country the market has dictated that if you get a low scoring shop the company(cingular) will pull your locations listings from there advertisements. That is a huge loss to any business to not be listed in major print ads. That is your agents way to assure if they do lose that print advertisement they still get compensated per say for the money they will spend out of there own pocket to advertise there business for that month. Bottom line ask the right qualifying questions and demonstrate everything the mystery shopper would be looking for and you dont have to worry.

Posted by: hatoncat

Lessons to be learned from Cell Phone World War II: Always let the people on the battlefield make the tactical decisions. Unfortunately, Cingular is going to have to learn this the hard way... just like Germany did.

Posted by: penk

Quote:

Originally Posted by StattlichPassat

But that's not the bad part. Don't ask the shopper about how they use their phone (business or personal, how many minutes they use), and get 10 points deducted. Don't ask about their travelling preferences and show them places on the map for the ALLOVER network, another 10 point deduction.

these are easily the most important qualifying questions a wireless sales rep can ask a customer - right behind "do-you-have/have-you-ever-had a cellular (wireless) phone?" and "are you over 18?".

anyone who doesn't automatically ask these questions probably shouldn't be celling.

Posted by: kirbo20

Our store is going to install video cameras with audio to show how incompetent Cingular shoppers actually are. I recently scored an 87% because I did not mention a two year contract or demonstrate any features. The funny thing is that in the comment box at the end of the shop report he mentioned that I talked about 2 year contracts. He didn't relize that PTT and text messaging were features so thats why I loss points in that category. Allowing people outside of Cingular to come in and grade us on our performance and deduct pay for what some unqualified person says we did or didn't do is ridicoulous.

Posted by: CingularZ

As long as you guys do your job, you should be fine. Your RAE will also back you up and make sure you dont get hammered by those real customers who lets say, just forget what happened.

Truth is, I hate to tell you guys but majority of your secret shop isnt based on real customers, its people that were hired by Cingular who know what to look out for.

As someone stated before, do what you know is needed and ask the right questions. Truth is, as Im sure you may agree.. alot of dealers now can give two sh*ts about the customer, and that is hurting the market as a whole. All they care is numbers, but realistically the profit comes from your residual not the one time sale .

good luck

Posted by: kirbo20

We are doing our jobs but unfortunately Cingular can't see it because the people they send into shop us bring their kids and roll out of bed 5 min before they get here. The guy that came in the other day yawned 10 or more times and was looking around in a daze. I had a lady that came in about 3 months ago and her kid was running around our store and she was paying attention to the kid the whole time. How is she supposed to remember what I was saying when she isn't paying attention? Like I said our store is going to do everything possible to shut down this flawed process. Video and audio surveillance won't lie. Yeah I know everyone that gets below a 90 is going to ***** and say I did this and I did that but when Cingular sees that we aren't bullsh**ing they are going be like oh maybe the shop process needs work.

Posted by: Freakshow105

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularZ

As long as you guys do your job, you should be fine. Your RAE will also back you up and make sure you dont get hammered by those real customers who lets say, just forget what happened.

Truth is, I hate to tell you guys but majority of your secret shop isnt based on real customers, its people that were hired by Cingular who know what to look out for.

As someone stated before, do what you know is needed and ask the right questions. Truth is, as Im sure you may agree.. alot of dealers now can give two sh*ts about the customer, and that is hurting the market as a whole. All they care is numbers, but realistically the profit comes from your residual not the one time sale .

good luck

No Shop n Check hires the mystery shoppers and they are anyone off the street...it doesnt say that a cingular employee CANT shop but that it is discouraged that we not shop where we work

Posted by: Serinus

"Bottom line ask the right qualifying questions and demonstrate everything the mystery shopper would be looking for and you dont have to worry."

"its people that were hired by Cingular who know what to look out for. "

Did you not see that Kirbo was marked off for not mentioning a 2 year contract, and then the shopper said Kirbo mentioned the 2 year contract in the comments box?
If they're marking off for this, then what else are they incorrectly marking for without an easy proof?

It doesn't matter if you ask the right questions or not. What matters is which box the shopper decides they want to check. Do we really want people motivated by "Well, it wouldn't look good if I gave out a 100% on two shops in a row." to be deciding our commissions?

Know what it takes to be a secret shopper? http://www.shopncheck.com/recruit.html
These are not Cingular representatives who know what to look for. These are random losers on welfare who can't hold a job for more than 2 weeks, so they become a "Mystery shopper" so they can buy their crack for another 2 weeks.

Posted by: BellaDea

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularZ

As long as you guys do your job, you should be fine. Your RAE will also back you up and make sure you dont get hammered by those real customers who lets say, just forget what happened.

you're funny

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularZ

Truth is, I hate to tell you guys but majority of your secret shop isnt based on real customers, its people that were hired by Cingular who know what to look out for.

as MRDJ stated, these people are generic mystery shoppers. Most of them have no idea what's going on. Like my shopper said, he was greeted right away but not within 10 feet/10 seconds. considering there was NO ONE in the store when he walked in and I greeted him the moment he step foot in the door (the door hadn't even finished closing behind him) it shows the intelligence of this individual.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularZ

As someone stated before, do what you know is needed and ask the right questions. Truth is, as Im sure you may agree.. alot of dealers now can give two sh*ts about the customer, and that is hurting the market as a whole. All they care is numbers,

This I will agree with you on. There are a lot of dealers and even just reps out there that don't care about the customer when it comes to the customer service side of it. course that customer you may help answering questions could be your 5 line referral deal tomorrow.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularZ

but realistically the profit comes from your residual not the one time sale .

good luck

the profit of the company yes, for the salesperson, it is just the one time sale (course the higher plan you sell usually the higher the commission...... sometimes).

Posted by: CingularZ

As an employee of Cingular, I am telling you guys.. you will be shopped by Cingular reps in your area.

Not everyone is a generic shopper off the street.

Regarding this..

Quote:

the profit of the company yes, for the salesperson, it is just the one time sale (course the higher plan you sell usually the higher the commission...... sometimes).

Thats what differs your from the other guy who maintains his gross add's.. I am telling you from handling one of the biggest and most competitive markets for CIngular, that IF YOU WANT TO BE SUCCESSFUL , IT IS NOT JUST A ONE TIME SALE. Many of my top sales guys, make huge dividends from referrals and from existing customer base.

I know you're going to argue with me, but im trying to tell you that you need to think beyond that point of sale.

Posted by: Serinus

"I know you're going to argue with me, but im trying to tell you that you need to think beyond that point of sale."

Well, first, I don't work on commission. I'm salary. This means that I'm not personally losing anything by these shops, yet I can still see that the idea is a side effect of a mental defect.

If these are Cingular reps shopping us, well... it looks like Cingular's in trouble since their employees can't identify what a "feature" is.

Posted by: Rcadden

Any good salesperson knows that it's ALL about the residual, not the one-time hit. First of all, word-of-mouth advertising is the best there is, hands down, and it's free. If you think that any other form of advertising besides your friend telling you something is better, then you are dead wrong. I'm sorry but you are. That being said, I personally have had many people return to me to upgrade or bring their friend or whatever because I helped them with something related to a phone that they didn't buy from me. One lady, I explained to her how to get through the menus and whatnot on her phone. Spent about ten-fifteen minutes. I was slow, anyways. Two weeks later she brings in her neighbor for a 3-liner, said, "Ricky'll take care of you, I'd suggest him to anyone." I've had customers come back to my store and make the manager call me to come in early cause they didn't wanna buy their phones from anyone but me. It's that kinda stuff that proves that the residual sale is the best one you can have.

Posted by: makhay

our shoppers are not allowed to have anyone else with them... and my pay isnt affected by our shops... now our shops have changed atleast in imi, non-negotiables will be gone... just based on performance...

Posted by: kirbo20

"As an employee of Cingular, I am telling you guys.. you will be shopped by Cingular reps in your area."

Like Serinus said if the people we are getting shopped by were infact Cingular employees then Cingular would be in trouble. Cingularz if you really believe that you get shopped by Cingular employees then you must have started out as a secret shopper yourself; because there is no way anyone can back up a secret shopper.

Posted by: kilowatt

shop'n chek does not let cingular employees do shops of other cingular stores.

Posted by: CingularZ

Quote:

Originally Posted by kilowatt

shop'n chek does not let cingular employees do shops of other cingular stores.

This has nothing to do with shop n check

You dont have to listen to me, I am trying to give you guys a heads up that Cingular corporate will be using area reps to shop agents.

Some of you guys who still want to argue with me about this, so be it. Im not here trying to prove anything to you, Im trying to help you.

Posted by: kirbo20

It has everything to do with shop n check. They hire shoppers and they shop us it’s that simple. We always take pictures of the shopper and if it wasn’t against my better judgment I would post the pictures and have you look at them. It would take you 2 seconds to see that they are no employees of Cingular Wireless. I don’t believe that Cingular would hire grunge to work at a corporate store. This is going to be my last response to CingularZ he obviously works at a mall kiosk or some other uninformed location about how Cingular operates and I don’t want to waste anymore of my time.

Posted by: theclarks1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Serinus

"Bottom line ask the right qualifying questions and demonstrate everything the mystery shopper would be looking for and you dont have to worry."

"its people that were hired by Cingular who know what to look out for. "

Did you not see that Kirbo was marked off for not mentioning a 2 year contract, and then the shopper said Kirbo mentioned the 2 year contract in the comments box?
If they're marking off for this, then what else are they incorrectly marking for without an easy proof?

It doesn't matter if you ask the right questions or not. What matters is which box the shopper decides they want to check. Do we really want people motivated by "Well, it wouldn't look good if I gave out a 100% on two shops in a row." to be deciding our commissions?

Know what it takes to be a secret shopper? http://www.shopncheck.com/recruit.html
These are not Cingular representatives who know what to look for. [B]These are random losers on welfare who can't hold a job for more than 2 weeks, so they become a "Mystery shopper" so they can buy their crack for another 2 weeks.[B]

There is no call to make assumptions of what kind of person a shopper is. If the person is bringing other family members in with them then since you guys seem to know who the shoppers are then report it. Thats not allowed. If you do get caught bringing them you will be terminated from the shop program. There are some shoppers that are on the up and up. I can tell you for sure that some of them do there homework. Its really not that easy to pass some of the tests that you have to take to even get the shop. But Im sure that there are some out there but I wouldnt assume what one shoppers looks what they are. But if you guys report this then the more bad shoppers will be put out of the program.

I don’t believe that Cingular would hire grunge to work at a corporate store.

I dont understand why you would judge someone based on what they wear or what they look like. I know guys that have millions in the bank that dress like everyday people and sometimes worse! There again how do you know that this person isint dressed like this so corp will know how you react to this? Also if you have these people on camera and have pictures of them, take it to corp, let your agent rep know. You can contest the shops if you think that they are invalid.

Posted by: kilowatt

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularZ

i wish they would send corporate employees in. at least they will know what to look for and hopefully remember everything. unlike the woman i got a couple of months ago who gave me a 78 when i have consistently gotten scores in the 90's and even 100 several times. i wrote a two page dispute of the shop because i knew when the shop occured and who the person was...it really didn't do any good though.

Posted by: sheila627

i am a shop n check shopper i would be glad to let you know what date your going to be shopped the smart agents will go and sign up and shop themselves and not worry about their commsions and yes its true the shoppers have no clue i worked for corporate for 2 years we zalways got great scores huh i wonder how if your can't trust the shopper be the shopper and eliminate the bs

Posted by: theclarks1

Quote:

Originally Posted by sheila627

i am a shop n check shopper i would be glad to let you know what date your going to be shopped the smart agents will go and sign up and shop themselves and not worry about their commsions and yes its true the shoppers have no clue i worked for corporate for 2 years we zalways got great scores huh i wonder how if your can't trust the shopper be the shopper and eliminate the bs

So you are saying that shoppers have no clue? Well you are a shopper or so you say, are you going to include yourself in that?

Posted by: pikapp168

These secret shopers are the worst anyway! The company they use sucks! I went on it to see what the requirements were and anyone can be a shopper! Even Joe Crack Head! Its all bogus-I've scored 3 100's and all high 90's other than that but it still sucks!

Posted by: theclarks1

Quote:

Originally Posted by pikapp168

These secret shopers are the worst anyway! The company they use sucks! I went on it to see what the requirements were and anyone can be a shopper! Even Joe Crack Head! Its all bogus-I've scored 3 100's and all high 90's other than that but it still sucks!

Yes anyone can become a shopper, but you have tests that you have to pass before you can even be qualified for a shop. Look folks they dont just do cellular, they do all diffrent kinds of retail in the US. The tests for cellular are difficult. If you are seeing somone who dosent know what they are talking about then they have in some way shape or form cheated on the test that you have to take or gotten the information from another person. The people that I know prepare for 2-3 days before they go to the shop. Also you just cant sign up and get the cell shops. You have to do lots of other shops and do well on reporting those too. I know that it took others 3 months to get cell shops.

Posted by: CingularZ

Quote:

Originally Posted by kirbo20

It has everything to do with shop n check. They hire shoppers and they shop us it’s that simple. We always take pictures of the shopper and if it wasn’t against my better judgment I would post the pictures and have you look at them. It would take you 2 seconds to see that they are no employees of Cingular Wireless. I don’t believe that Cingular would hire grunge to work at a corporate store. This is going to be my last response to CingularZ he obviously works at a mall kiosk or some other uninformed location about how Cingular operates and I don’t want to waste anymore of my time.

Yes, please dont wast anymore of your time.

The fact that your high expertise of pre-judging a "shopper" tells us all that you must know everything

I dont work at a mall kiosk, but I cant disclose who or where I work due to obvious legal reasons.

I came on these forums to see what we can do to help our agents/indirect side of Cingular. I gave you my advice, and you can choose to believe it or not but let me just say, never say never.

You may be used to the way things were run, but times have changed.

Send me a pm when you get your next mystery shop summary.

Posted by: jsmcguir

Quote:

Originally Posted by kirbo20

well kirbo. that was pretty brutal. First, I've worked in malls for years. I'm offended by your own uniformed opinion about all kiosks. Second, my mom is a mystery shopper (in another state.) turns out, she can go out on her lunch break of her local gov'n job and mystery shop, and get a couple hundred bucks a week, plus free meals and movies. She is the opposite of grunge. Valedictorian, went to school at Northwestern (full scholarship), published author of several books, etc... You get the idea. She shops because she thinks it's a good way to learn about this stuff. I think you should hold back just a little on your uninformed blanket statements.

anyway, off my soap box and back to the point of the thread, in my market, a score under 85% earns you a conference call with the regional director of sales, your arsm, and your store manager, as well as two role plays before you're allowed on the sales floor again. i think i'd almost rather take a hit to the commission. that would be an unpleasant phone call.

Posted by: kilowatt

come on now....secret shoppers don't make a couple hundred a week. maybe a hundred at most part-time...

Posted by: kirbo20

OK the grunge thing was a little harsh. I was just saying that the people in my area that are shoppers are not the cream of the crop. There is no way in hell they are from a Cingular Corporate store like some have mentioned in this post. It's just a flawed process that needs to be fixed or done away with.

Posted by: CingularZ

Quote:

Originally Posted by kirbo20

OK the grunge thing was a little harsh. I was just saying that the people in my area that are shoppers are not the cream of the crop. There is no way in hell they are from a Cingular Corporate store like some have mentioned in this post. It's just a flawed process that needs to be fixed or done away with.

No way in hell ? really, okay..

btw, just so you know. No where did I say that "ALL" mystery shoppers are from Cingular direct, and I never said Cingular corporate "store"

As someone in the Indirect channel, dont be surprised when Cingular ARSM,RAMs and RAE's are shopping your stores.

Posted by: BellaDea

oh ya, that'll happen. I've seen it many times. but for mystery shop scores that count are done from the shopper company they use. ARSM, RAMs, and RAE's shops are just to make sure you're doing your job.

Posted by: kirbo20

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularZ

As someone in the Indirect channel, dont be surprised when Cingular ARSM,RAMs and RAE's are shopping your stores.

I didn't plan on responding to another one of your post but this is actually what we are hoping for. If we could get someone knowledgeable in the operation of Cingular and what is expected of us employees during a secret shop then the process might work. Until then everyone hold their breath and hope the secret shopper clicks the correct check box on the report.

Posted by: theclarks1

Quote:

Originally Posted by kirbo20

They dont just do a click in the report. They have at least 3 pages of stuff to comment on and such. I can tell you that the ones that suck will not be around to do many more. The people that you report the shops to check up on what you do and most of the time if there is the least little thing that dosent sound right they will call or email you. All they have to have knowledge of is what is on the report and what questions that they have to ask. If they read it and know what they are doing then they should have no issues. As for "knowing" cellular, I know reps that know less than a 70 year old man. They can just BS well. So on these shops as long as they know what to look for and as long as You do your job and know your material then you should be ok. I know that there are some shoppers that are diffrent and IM not saying that all of them are good at all but, things that you learn that you dont know then you should be able to put that to work for you and know it the next time.

Posted by: kirbo20

I take it you didn't read the post? If you did you would have seen where I posted that I got marked off for 2 points for not mentioning a 2 year contract. Then at the end of the report where he gives general comments he acknowledges that I mentioned a 2 year contract. I can't do much about that can I? I don't personally work on a commission so I am not on here to defend my self and whine that I'm getting my commissions slashed. I work on salary so as of right now it's not affecting me. The day it does then I will be on here crying. Bottom line the secret shop program is flawed and as CingularZ said about the Rae’s and such shopping us; well that would be great.

Posted by: CingularZ

Quote:

Originally Posted by kirbo20

That will change too, in fact I believe even the scoring will be modified.

Good luck

Posted by: stlsingledad

Secret Shops exist in almost every business today. And, I don't know of any of them that have "perfect" programs. Since I don't work for Cingular, I don't know how you measure customer satisfaction aside from the shops, but I can tell you from the restaurant end of things it can get confusing.

I worked as a manager for a large corporate restaurant chain (full service) that did both shops and random customer surveys (Questar) that came up as people paid. It was always a bit troubling to me that if our shop scores were high (90 and up) our Questar scores, which measured customer loyalty and a host of individual areas, always went down. When Questar was looking good and on the rise, shop scores declined. I dare anyone to explain that one to me. Apparently the things that the shoppers looked for were the exact opposite of what the average customer wanted.

I just got to the point where as long as the shops were in the "acceptable" range I pretty much ignored them and worked on the areas Questar measured specifically. I'd rather have a business full of happy real customers than one that dazzles shoppers. It's just a numbers game you learn to play.

Posted by: theclarks1

Quote:

Originally Posted by kirbo20

I take it you didn't read the post? If you did you would have seen where I posted that I got marked off for 2 points for not mentioning a 2 year contract. Then at the end of the report where he gives general comments he acknowledges that I mentioned a 2 year contract. I can't do much about that can I? I don't personally work on a commission so I am not on here to defend my self and whine that I'm getting my commissions slashed. I work on salary so as of right now it's not affecting me. The day it does then I will be on here crying. Bottom line the secret shop program is flawed and as CingularZ said about the Rae’s and such shopping us; well that would be great.

What makes no sense to me is why you were marked off if he or she mentioned that you said there was a 2 year contract option. These sheets are reviewed by the shopncheck company corporate then passed on to the people at cingular. So maybe shopncheck made the mistake, but it was mentioned in the report then the person did make the effort to correct there mistake if they didnt fill things out correctly. Everyone makes mistakes, and I can say as a salesperson that I dont always remember everything and Im sure that you and others do also. You can go over all the sheets that you have in front of you and still miss things.

Posted by: bssop

The scoring has been changed, it is now all about the presentation. However, it still is a mystery shop and ALL are flawed. I still believe the proof is in the numbers.

Posted by: kirbo20

Quote:

Originally Posted by theclarks1

Yeah people make mistakes and that's why it shouldn't affect commisions.

Posted by: theclarks1

Quote:

Originally Posted by kirbo20

Yeah people make mistakes and that's why it shouldn't affect commisions.

If I contstantly came in late, messed up things, didnt know what I was supposed to tell the customer, do you think that any boss wouldnt cut your pay in one way or the other? ONe way would be cutting of hours. These shops are made to see how you do based on a person that or may have no idea about cellular phones. You guys KNOW when you are going to get shopped, know who the person is when they come in(this has been stated in other posts) and have them on camera and even take pictures of them. So why not be prepared, or make your own little list of things that you are supposed to say to them and then you should be ok. But if its as bad as you guys say it is then I agree down with shopncheck.

Posted by: kirbo20

Is this thread that hard to understand? We are prepared; we do know when it's a shopper that's pretty much what this thread is about. These shoppers are idiots they don't remember things that are said to them because they don't care. There is a list but the people in my company are intelligent and have no need for a list to carry around with them. Maybe the secret shoppers should carry a list or a personal audio recorder so that they can go back and listen to what was actually said.

Posted by: theclarks1

Quote:

Originally Posted by kirbo20

Is this thread that hard to understand? We are prepared; we do know when it's a shopper that's pretty much what this thread is about. These shoppers are idiots they don't remember things that are said to them because they don't care. There is a list but the people in my company are intelligent and have no need for a list to carry around with them. Maybe the secret shoppers should carry a list or a personal audio recorder so that they can go back and listen to what was actually said.

Tell ya what the last shop that I know of, the person read off the sheet and told the shopper hey do you know of anything that I forgot? Im tellin ya all shoppers arent idiots. But I cant tell you how many retails that I have shopped myself and 50% of the reps will try to push you into something that you dont need or want. Again if you are prepared then you wouldnt get the low score. I havent been saying anything but now I can see that it may not be the shoppers fault. If I get a low score I find out what I did and learn from it. I dont gripe and complain. I learn from my mistakes. This thread should really be closed. All we are doing is going in circles over something that is going to get everyone riled up.