vB Easy Archive - Anybody have thoughts on the Supreme court Ruling?

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Anybody have thoughts on the Supreme court Ruling?
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Posted by: dawaits

I just bought a 7130e from Verizon, and today the Supreme Court has ruled to not hear RIM's appeal about Patent Infringement. I have read that if RIM needed too they had a backup plan, just wanted to know your thoughts.

Posted by: GregGebhardt

I would not worry. There will be Blackberry service no matter what.

Posted by: martin_j001

I'm personally still not worried. The patent office is days away from ruling that NTP's patents are all rejected anyways, which would make the whole case null and void....

Posted by: jase88

No, the Supreme Court ruled not to decide the issue of the lower court's jurisdiction of the matter outside of the U.S. The Supreme Court did not address whether or not to hear the imfringement matter.

This was expected. Nobody really thought the Surpreme Court would open the jurisidictional "can of worms"....

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawaits

I just bought a 7130e from Verizon, and today the Supreme Court has ruled to not hear RIM's appeal about Patent Infringement. I have read that if RIM needed too they had a backup plan, just wanted to know your thoughts.

Posted by: AshG

Total speculatory question here...

In the case that the court system totally messes up the case and gives NTP the win and leaves BB service dead in the water without a fix, what recourse would those of us currently using BB phones have?

RIM keeps saying there's a workaround; are they refusing to discuss it as to not influence the case?

Posted by: dawaits

In the past I read where RIM is going to implement the workaround, no matter the judgement.
As for my alternative, I have none.

Posted by: idensteve

Say it isn't so!
http://money.cnn.com/2006/01/23/tec...dex.htm?cnn=yes

Posted by: martin_j001

Please see this thread, already started, on the same topic....
http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=829299

Posted by: hillstrubl

it wont happen,
the federal govt is now past the point of no return with their need of blackberries...

Posted by: Baadshah7

Quote:

Originally Posted by hillstrubl

it wont happen,
the federal govt is now past the point of no return with their need of blackberries...

I totally agree...although in the CNN article, they mention that Government and Federal employees will continue to have BB service in the U.S. It's us regular consumers and small business users that will mostly be affected. I will surely miss my BB.....I'm sure RIM will come up with something....I've a relative that's a RIM engineer, and he's very tight lipped about this issue....I'm sure they have something cookin' as we speak!

Posted by: whsbuss

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baadshah7

But most likely, it won't be the same push email we are acustomed to. If RIM had a better mouse trap, they would have implemeted it already and minimized the amount of damages NTP is looking for.

Posted by: AlbertoM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whsbuss

But most likely, it won't be the same push email we are acustomed to. If RIM had a better mouse trap, they would have implemeted it already and minimized the amount of damages NTP is looking for.

Maybe. But that woul be admitting that NTP was right...they'll wait until the 11th hour.

Posted by: rgvgsm

So if RIM did due diligence, how did they miss this patent? Or did they see it and sincerely just think it didn't apply them without testing it through appropriate legal means? Or is it just a case of a bunch of shrewd lawyers who have been clever enough to be able to twist something around that may not have been looked upon as an infringement before? If this was the case, then why should RIM have to pay back royalties if they were sincere in their patent search before? After all I can't imagine RIM would have deliberately meant to be sneaky and steal someones idea if they knew there was a very good chance it would bite them in the behind later. Of course maybe I'm wrong and RIM deserve all they get...

If RIM do lose then it's going to set a precedent in that companies will forever (if they aren't already) be looking over there shoulder wondering if there is a patent out there that they thought didn't apply to them, even when validated through legal means, waiting to destroy their company.

Posted by: mch

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baadshah7

a lot of large businesses use BB technology too.

I expect that RIM will maintain that it is impossible for them to separate out the U.S. government/law enforcement/emergency service personnel from business and individual customers. I'm not sure they are set up to do that, especially with the cellular carriers actually having the visibility into who is buying what. It would probably take some work and some time.

The U.S. patent system is out of control though to the point where it is stifling innovation. It isn't just RIM. Pretty much any big company that innovates anything in high tech is spending a tremendous amount of money on legal fees to deal with patent related lawsuits. Patents were issued for many things which were either obvious and not particularly innovative and/or where there was prior art. It's great business for the lawyers.

Posted by: mas90guru

Last I read about the "workaround" is that it would require re-loading every BB with a new O/S and was NOT a behind the scenes fix as has been speculated. This could be one reason that the fix has not been implemented. The other reason is that it may disrupt service or not work as expected.

Posted by: CarlGalgano

Quote:

Originally Posted by rgvgsm

So if RIM did due diligence, how did they miss this patent? Or did they see it and sincerely just think it didn't apply them without testing it through appropriate legal means? Or is it just a case of a bunch of shrewd lawyers who have been clever enough to be able to twist something around that may not have been looked upon as an infringement before?

I think RIMS entire defense was not to dispute the patent, but to say they were not subject to it, because their mail/messaging servers are located outside the US.

Posted by: pcmagsascha

I spoke to RIM, and they said that the workaround would involve installing software on every device. NTP has agreed to a 30-day 'grace period' in the worst-case scenario, so if an injunction happens, RIM would send out the free 'upgrade' so people could install it before the grace period is up. They still won't tell me exactly what the workaround is, of course.

I really don't think Blackberry service will shut down - I think at worst, we'll all have to install the mysterious, magic workaround. Of course, that didn't stop my editors from asking me to write this story about Blackberry alternatives

(more RIM quotes in there, too.)

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1915270,00.asp

Posted by: GregGebhardt

Quote:

Originally Posted by pcmagsascha

I spoke to RIM, and they said that the workaround would involve installing software on every device. NTP has agreed to a 30-day 'grace period' in the worst-case scenario, so if an injunction happens, RIM would send out the free 'upgrade' so people could install it before the grace period is up. They still won't tell me exactly what the workaround is, of course.

I really don't think Blackberry service will shut down - I think at worst, we'll all have to install the mysterious, magic workaround. Of course, that didn't stop my editors from asking me to write this story about Blackberry alternatives

(more RIM quotes in there, too.)

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1915270,00.asp

Or we will all have to pay an additional $10 per month to pay the billion dollars that NTP wants. I would not like it but I would pay.

Posted by: RavenII

I strongly believe that there is NO way that blackberry service will be shut off...NO WAY! I mean do you know what kind of devistation it would cause? Did you guys know that the marines use blackberries for communication? Imagine how many other Government agencies and such use this product...right next to impossible. I'm not the type of person to be surprised by a lot of things...and if it actually shut down...permanently I would be VERY surprised.

Posted by: martin_j001

Quote:

Originally Posted by RavenII

I strongly believe that there is NO way that blackberry service will be shut off...NO WAY! I mean do you know what kind of devistation it would cause? Did you guys know that the marines use blackberries for communication? Imagine how many other Government agencies and such use this product...right next to impossible. I'm not the type of person to be surprised by a lot of things...and if it actually shut down...permanently I would be VERY surprised.

Its already been pointed out, and has been in all the previous threads on this topic, that whaever happens in this case gov't bb's would be unaffected by the outcome.... In other words while personal and corporate (non-gov't) bb users would be SOL, the US gov't bb's would continue to work as absolutely normal....

Posted by: Mr Pink57

I feel kinda stupid saying it but isnt there something within the civial rights saying nothing can be shut down (may be different word) that directly hurts others?

pink

Posted by: lgreenberg

How does shutting down Blackberry service hurt anyone?

Since emergency workers and governments employess would be excluded from the shut down I'm not sure how.

Posted by: T2-T-mo

Heard the RIM work around doesnt require any software download to the handheld. Also it is in trials right now in enterprises and in certain areas. Some users are using it and dont even know!

Only change required is in RIM NOC in canada.

Spoke to my security contacts at RIM and they are looking into who leaked this info.

Posted by: jpsilvashy

hmm, i would like to see how the debate over text input methods will go as well, here i have an article for this http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/051214/2005...365.html?.v%3D1

Posted by: Mr Pink57

Quote:

Originally Posted by lgreenberg

How does shutting down Blackberry service hurt anyone?

Since emergency workers and governments employess would be excluded from the shut down I'm not sure how.

Well Civil Rights is not just emergency workers and Gov't employee's also large corporations that use BB service that pretty much rely on there service would be crushed. For how much money has been invested in BB's and BES alone is a killer, plus all the IT man hours that where paid for it.

pink

Posted by: hillstrubl

agreed, it'll cost BILLIONS of dollars to US companies each day if its shut off...

Posted by: RavenII

Keep in mind the customers that a LOT of providers would lose...it's just nuts...totally nuts...it's like how everyone said UAL (United Airlines) would shut down...I kept saying...impossible...UAL is the main carrier for US mail...

Posted by: trskit

The thinkg that gets me is how the media is blowing this up to be the end of the world. I have seen news stories on this for 4 nights running saying that "services will be shut down". Now I have every customer calling me asking me what I'm going to do "when" not "if" their service is shut off. I had 1 call and 2 people come in today alone. Thething that sucks is that no matter what I say they believe I'm just lying since the "news" said it and therefore it must be true.

Posted by: Moonbase0ne

Quote:

Originally Posted by T2-T-mo

Heard the RIM work around doesnt require any software download to the handheld. Also it is in trials right now in enterprises and in certain areas. Some users are using it and dont even know!

Only change required is in RIM NOC in canada.

Spoke to my security contacts at RIM and they are looking into who leaked this info.

I don't mind at all if I have to download software or even take my 8700c into a Cingular store to have the new work-around installed.

Bottom line is, I want my Blackberry cause it is, honeslty, the second best cellphone i have ever used. and, it is perfect for me in just about every way. So, if things do go sour and I have to download a program or whatever, I will be happy to considering the situation. But, like I said, bottom line is, I wanna be able to keep using my 8700c.

i tried the Treo and the HP on Cingular and honestly, I didn't like them at all. Mostly because of the keypad.

I like the Sidekick keypad, but that would mean I would have to switched to TMO, which wsa my second choice. But, so far I am happy with Cingular so hopefully things will work out.

And NO, I don't wanna get a Sidekick as a data device and have to carry 2 phones.

Posted by: T68Gabe

Posted by: Moonbase0ne

I read that yesterday.

Hmm, things don't look good for Rim....

Posted by: 1906!

So, if they close Blackberry down, can we protest NTP maybe start a world wide divestment of the banks that NTP uses, the computer companies they work with etc? They cannot be untouchable!

Posted by: BayStBoi

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1906!

So, if they close Blackberry down, can we protest NTP maybe start a world wide divestment of the banks that NTP uses, the computer companies they work with etc? They cannot be untouchable!

The problem is, NTP isn't a "real" company. It's a shell corporation that just owns a bunch of patents. It has no real operations / business it conducts other than to seek / earn royalty payments on the patents it holds.

Posted by: mkempton

I have a real noob question here. I'm currently waiting for resolution of the v710 issue and will switch to a 7130e on VZW, so this is all very interesting to me. I don't understand how RIM can "shut off the service". How do they control my device and servers once I buy them? My understanding of them (and this is from when they were nice little units the size of a pager, not a phone combo), is that I have an external-facing BB server at my company that ties into our Notes or Exchange servers. My BB device goes over the internet on my <your wireless provider here> service to that server and gets the messages in my Notes or Exchange inbox/calendar/task list. How can RIM shut that service down?

Sorry for the really elementary question.

TIA

PS - Why does HoFo keep blanking out the word "o_u_t_w_a_r_d" from my message? I had to change it to "external".

Posted by: BayStBoi

Quote:

Originally Posted by mkempton

I have a real noob question here. I'm currently waiting for resolution of the v710 issue and will switch to a 7130e on VZW, so this is all very interesting to me. I don't understand how RIM can "shut off the service". How do they control my device and servers once I buy them? My understanding of them (and this is from when they were nice little units the size of a pager, not a phone combo), is that I have an external-facing BB server at my company that ties into our Notes or Exchange servers. My BB device goes over the internet on my <your wireless provider here> service to that server and gets the messages in my Notes or Exchange inbox/calendar/task list. How can RIM shut that service down?

Sitting between that server at work and your wireless carrier are all of RIM's servers in Waterloo, Ontario. The server at your office doesn't know how to talk to each and every wireless carrier. Instead, it transmits it "home" to RIM's infrastructure, which then routes it over to each of the wireless carriers to transmit to your handheld.

Posted by: mkempton

Quote:

Originally Posted by BayStBoi

THANK YOU!!!

NOW I'm worried! :-)