vB Easy Archive - Cingular Denies Treo Is a Smartphone

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Cingular Denies Treo Is a Smartphone
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Posted by: CA

What the hell are they thinking? So now data on a 2125 is $20.00 and on a Treo it's $40.00. Thats a real good way to bring on the churn!

Quote:

Cingular Denies Treo Is a Smartphone

By agent680, posted 6 hours ago
Reader Comments: 1

What's in a name?

Is Palm's Treo device a smartphone? Not according to U.S. wireless carrier Cingular, which says the wireless device is a PDA. But do consumers really care?

In a posting on a ZDNet blog about the launch of a Microsoft Windows Mobile smartphone by Cingular, John Kampfe, director of media and industry analyst relations at Cingular, said that the Treo 700w handheld device is not a smartphone but a handheld. He also said that the Treo 650, which Cingular sells, is not a smartphone.

The just-announced, Cingular-branded 2125 smartphone, made by High Tech Computer Corp., is on sale now for $199. Cingular, a joint venture between AT&T and BellSouth, is targeting the smartphone at both business and consumer customers.

The 2125 runs Microsoft's Windows Mobile 5.0 software and offers Bluetooth connectivity, quad-band international roaming, and high-speed wireless data communications over Cingular's nationwide EDGE network.

Voice-Centric Device

In the ZDnet blog posting, Kampfe said that Cingular does not consider the Treo 700w to be a smartphone, despite the fact that it too runs Windows Mobile 5.0.

He argued that a smartphone has to be a voice-centric device, which the Treo is not. Rival U.S. carrier Verizon Wireless launched the Treo 700w at the Consumer Electronics Show earlier this month. The Treo 700w offers high-speed data communications over Verizon's EVDO network.

Yankee Group analyst John Jackson said that the millions of people using Treo devices do not care whether it is classified as a PDA or as a smartphone.

"What people care about is the functionality offered by a device," Jackson said. Palm, in its promotional material for the Treo, clearly sees the device as a smartphone.

Kampfe declined to comment for this article.

Blurred Distinctions

David Linsalata, an analyst with IDC, said that, from the consumer perspective, the distinctions between the different types of devices -- cellphones, PDAs, and smartphones -- are becoming increasingly blurred.

"You get handheld devices which are basically cellphones, but which also have some of the capabilities of what would traditionally be considered a smartphone," Linsalata said. "Similarly, data-centric devices are getting voice capabilities."

Linsalata said that, while a cellphone might allow a user to do Web browsing or e-mail, these applications would be much easier on a data-centric device with a proper keyboard.

"Ultimately, the question is what kind of experience do consumers get with a cellphone as opposed to a PDA or a smartphone when they want to carry out advanced applications," he said.

http://mobilitytoday.com/news/006037/cingular_Palm_Treo

Posted by: Quake97

Well, it is more of a PDA than it is a phone. That's the distinction they're trying to make. The Cingular 2125 is a smartphone because it's more a phone than a PDA. Cingular also assumes, rightly, that people will do more downloading on a PDA-type opf phone with push email, web browsing and such. It makes sense to me. Does it suck? Of course it does.

Joe

Posted by: CA

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quake97

Well, it is more of a PDA than it is a phone. That's the distinction they're trying to make. The Cingular 2125 is a smartphone because it's more a phone than a PDA. Cingular also assumes, rightly, that people will do more downloading on a PDA-type opf phone with push email, web browsing and such. It makes sense to me. Does it suck? Of course it does.

Joe

See now I have a problem with that. More people buy phones than PDA's and with the 2125's ability to do push email and browse etc. I'm willing to bet the average data use will be greater on the 2125 than on the more expensive Treo.

If I was Treo I would be sending piles of hate(pushed) email to Stan.

Posted by: Fatman

The Treo's require a different data plan then 2125 right? Is this the only major push for 'naming' of these devices?

Posted by: CA

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fatman

The Treo's require a different data plan then 2125 right? Is this the only major push for 'naming' of these devices?

Yep!...

Posted by: Fatman

Are there ways around this? How about you pretend you have a 2125 and just pay $19.99 when instead you are using a Treo?

Posted by: elushon

Sorry folks...There's money to be had, so Cingular's gonna do what makes them the most...And a branded CIngular Manufactured phone is gonna bring in the cash for them they think, so scare people away from the treo to their own device instead.

Capitalism at work.

Posted by: CA

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fatman

Are there ways around this? How about you pretend you have a 2125 and just pay $19.99 when instead you are using a Treo?

Cingular prices by phone of record. Yes you can trick Cingular if that floats your boat but doing it without having to steal just does it for me.

If you are creative that is.

Posted by: KikoKazuma

The 2125 is a phone first, smartphone second. It uses Windows Mobile 5.0 smartphone edition.

The treo 650 is a pda first, phone second. It has a touchscreen, qwerty keyboard, and other features you won't find on a smartphone. It runs the PalmOS.

Cingular is right if you ask me.

Posted by: CA

Quote:

Originally Posted by KikoKazuma

The 2125 is a phone first, smartphone second. It uses Windows Mobile 5.0 smartphone edition.

The treo 650 is a pda first, phone second. It has a touchscreen, qwerty keyboard, and other features you won't find on a smartphone. It runs the PalmOS.

Cingular is right if you ask me.

No disrespect intended, but that sounds like the company line to me. What does it matter if you can tap on the screen to them, your the one who paid to be able to tap. I don't care if it puts me to sleep. Until they publish some numbers showing the Treo using more resource's it's just bull ****.

It reminds me of the old Telco day's when they charged you for extension phones at home and wouldn't even let you buy them.

Posted by: KikoKazuma

The treo generally uses a lot more data than the 2125 with the browser alone. I'm pretty sure e-mails are going in and out a lot faster with a qwerty, thats just my opinion.

Posted by: bdc10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonix

Well, I have to agree that while the line is getting greyer all the time, there are some distinctions between PDAs that happen to be phones, and phones that have PDA functionality.

Specifically, a PDA seems to be driven by a stylus and, at least as far as Microsoft seems to be concerned, is not really fully usable one-handed. The Treo 700 (which I tried for about a week) is a fine example. It's really hard to use that device entirely one-handed. And, if you look at the hardware, you can understand why. It's got a stylus and a full keyboard. It's designed to be used with two hands, and it operates quite nicely that way.

My 2125 phone, on the other hand (no pun intended) is completely capable of being operated with one hand. It has fewer buttons, no stylus, and a UI optimized for one-handed use.

There are also some technical differences between the two devices that use WM5. But they are mostly of interest to developers, and will probably change in the long run as the PDA becomes a lot more like the phone.

What's amazing to me is that Cingular can charge $45 a month for EDGE when Verizon is charging as little as $30 a month for EVDO on a PDA.

Posted by: Perceptions

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonix

No disrespect intended, but that sounds like the company line to me. What does it matter if you can tap on the screen to them, your the one who paid to be able to tap.

So how do you classify the Sx-66, HP 6515, HTC 8125?

Posted by: FESCSteve

What's in a name really? You're not guranteed to use more data with one phone over another so the argument that the typical 2125 will use more data is just a blind guess. I know there are people with Nokias out there using a ton of data with Mobitv and streaming internet radio - why not charge them for the PDA plan? Why not charge an even higher data plan - there are certainly phones out there eating more data thansome use tethering on a PC. I guess to be really fair, we should all either pay per KB or pay one flat rate for 'all you can eat'.

Also, where Sonix accuses those of us who use the $20.00 media works plan on their Treos as being theives, I think the one ripping people off are Cingular for what seems like a double standard for data packages.

Steve

Posted by: CeluGeek

The idea is that since in a PDA phone (Treo 600, Siemens SX66 iPAQ h6515) you can input text easier than on a smartphone (Nokia 6682, Motorola MPx220, Cingular 2125) you are bound to use more data by sending/receiving more email and doing a lot more web browsing on the PDA.

I can tell you: even though I can browse HTML websites on my SMT5600 with the MEdiaNet Unlimited plan, I think it twice before typing a URL and filling out web forms. Can you imagine the difference between typing this HoFo post on a SMT5600 vs a Treo 650? Also, the screen size does matter too. Webpages look more cramped and require a lot more scrolling on a smartphone than on a PDA phone, which makes heavy browsing an experience less enjoyable and inviting on a smartphone.

I think Cingular's distintion of PDA phones from smartphones is a right one. Even though the hardware on both devices can technically take you to the same places, the usability of the hardware will determine how likely and how frequently you'll go to those places.

Posted by: .7

Its strarting to become quite the slippery slope that Cingular is trying to climb with their pricing on these devices.

Posted by: JP

Looks you guys are leveling with Canadian carrier rates (and not in a good way)

Posted by: CA

Just to clarify my thoughts on this topic I need to be able somehow make you guy's understand that to me when I but a device I buy what I want with the features, OS, etc. that suits me. Period.

Lets, for the sake of the discussion, keep our eye on the ball and not bring in the minutia of the different devices.

Now carriers provide service that's a separate issue or should be. Why should they charge more for a device that has more features. They are in the service industry and as such have an inventory of data(so to speak). Until a carrier shows some numbers proving that any one device consumes more of their inventory they are simply making a chump out of me. Now this is legal, but at these prices I can also walk, until at least they IMO see their pigheaded behavior.

Quote:

Also, where Sonix accuses those of us who use the $20.00 media works plan on their Treos as being theives, I think the one ripping people off are Cingular for what seems like a double standard for data packages.

If you look I was simply saying that their may be a better way to getting "just" prices that taking them. However you have hit the nail on the head, they created this behavior and I would think CAN stop it easily, but chose not to because of the bad press and churn that it would cause.

Posted by: pheenix11

Does anyone know if you want to use the bluetooth on a 2125 to tether a laptop, do you have to get the data instead of the medianet plan? How do they know?

Posted by: ASimpleFarmer

i figure that a smartphone doesnt have a touch screen, while a pda phone does

Posted by: DonaldMick

So if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and swims like a duck, it's a platypus?

Quote:

i figure that a smartphone doesnt have a touch screen, while a pda phone does

Not necessarily. I don't believe the HPs have a touch screen, for one. Basically, cinguliano nailed it - if it's got the full-text keyboard and any sort of OS on it (Blackberry, Palm, Windows Mobile) then Cingular considers it to be a PDA.

Posted by: ASimpleFarmer

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonaldMick

So if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and swims like a duck, it's a platypus?

Not necessarily. I don't believe the HPs have a touch screen, for one. Basically, cinguliano nailed it - if it's got the full-text keyboard and any sort of OS on it (Blackberry, Palm, Windows Mobile) then Cingular considers it to be a PDA.

the only hp i can think of are the 6500 series, which do have a touch screen.

most traditional pda's dont have keyboards. would you call it a smart device then?

I mean, there is no point arguing haha

Posted by: stuXstu

I think everyone can agree that Black Berry's use a lot of bandwidth. So will PDA's when push email hits. Also, the PDA phone is aimed at the business world. Trust me when I tell you that the business world is not looking at websites in a starbucks. They are using VPNs to connect to the home office and using push email.

Though I would like Cingular to have cheaper rates, I don't really care since my company pays the bill.

Keep fighting the good fight.....

Posted by: CA

Quote:

Originally Posted by stuXstu

I think everyone can agree that Black Berry's use a lot of bandwidth. So will PDA's when push email hits. Also, the PDA phone is aimed at the business world. Trust me when I tell you that the business world is not looking at websites in a starbucks. They are using VPNs to connect to the home office and using push email.

Though I would like Cingular to have cheaper rates, I don't really care since my company pays the bill.

Keep fighting the good fight.....

Your correct BB's created the push email market. But the 2125 "smartphone"($20.00) for example will have push email and use the same ammount of data as a BB.