vB Easy Archive - HID legality

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HID legality
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Posted by: ice512

Anyone knows if the law prohibits after market HID ? Or any other restrains ? Of course I'm not talkin about a crazy 8000K purple coloured HID. Prolly going for 4300K-5000K max. So it'll stay max white with the minimal amount of blue.

Anyone knows ? Stock R ??

Posted by: c^2

I have two pairs of HIDs on my car (6000k). Never had any problems, even driving behind cops.

AFAIK there's nothing under the HTA that prohibits aftermarket HIDs, so long as they are within the white/yellowish-white range of colours.

Posted by: Paolo

its not the K or brightness of your HIDs thats shunned upon by the police, its how you've installed them into youe existing optics/housings. Installing bulbs into halogen reflectors is BAD no matter how well theyre designed, shields, solenoids, whatever they use, but installing HIDs into projectors properly with proper cut-offs are typically Safe.

Posted by: dcomp11

What matters is the colour of the light projected, and the 'beam pattern' of the light. The light must be white light (it's OK if it looks blue, as long as it's actually white). The headlights must be aligned properly (cut-offs etc) and comply with either US DOT standards or ECE standards. Simply put, US DOT compliant headlights are garbage IMO, and are much more offensive to oncoming traffic. European ECE headlights will allow you to have a brighter headlight that is less offensive to oncoming traffice and more effective of actually lighting the road.

Posted by: WoNGsTeR

Quote:

Originally Posted by P_Lam

Anyone knows if the law prohibits after market HID ? Or any other restrains ? Of course I'm not talkin about a crazy 8000K purple coloured HID. Prolly going for 4300K-5000K max. So it'll stay max white with the minimal amount of blue.

Anyone knows ? Stock R ??

i actually asked one of my friend who works for york region. and some of my clients that are cops.... and they actually prefer that you have brighter lights so that you can see the road at night better... as long as they are white or yellow.. and they are not distracting un comming traffic or the driver in front of you.. so if u install th em.... than do it properly and u should be fine...

Posted by: ice512

ok, so seems like HID is alright.
now the big question is...WHERE can i get it properly installed ??

Posted by: Stock R

Are you guys referring to opinions through word of mouth here, or are you actually stating facts from the HTA?

P_Lam, I'll look into it and see what I can dig up. I'm sure I researched on this before but for some reason I can't remember :P I think I recall something about modifying your headlight housing as illegal... Don't quote me on it though.

But as for installing the hids, that's easy. Most kits are plug and play. It's not until you want to retrofit another set of projectors into your existing housing that it starts getting ugly.

Posted by: WoNGsTeR

I am getting my information from actually cops that are from york region and toronto... i have a friend who works for york.. and a few ex customers who are from york and toronto.. in terms of housing i didnt ask, but for install the lights of the hids.. it is fine as i stated...

Posted by: ice512

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stock R

Are you guys referring to opinions through word of mouth here, or are you actually stating facts from the HTA?

P_Lam, I'll look into it and see what I can dig up. I'm sure I researched on this before but for some reason I can't remember :P I think I recall something about modifying your headlight housing as illegal... Don't quote me on it though.

But as for installing the hids, that's easy. Most kits are plug and play. It's not until you want to retrofit another set of projectors into your existing housing that it starts getting ugly.

I know for sure modifying a dark housing is illegal. But from the HTA it only states since HID does not produce any coloured lights, it is not considered illegal. However, i think that only applies to those already came with factory HIDS, i'm not sure about after market ones.
Thanks Stock_R in advance for the research.

Posted by: Stock R

I took a peak...

Quote:

62. (1) When on a highway at any time from one-half hour before sunset to one-half hour after sunrise and at any other time when, due to insufficient light or unfavourable atmospheric conditions, persons and vehicles on the highway are not clearly discernible at a distance of 150 metres or less, every motor vehicle other than a motorcycle shall carry three lighted lamps in a conspicuous position, one on each side of the front of the vehicle which shall display a white or amber light only, and one on the rear of the vehicle which shall display a red light only. R.S.O. 1990, c. H.8, s. 62 (1).

Attachment that affects lamps prohibited

(7) No person shall drive upon a highway a motor vehicle if either or both of the lamps that are required on the front of the vehicle by subsections (1), (2) and (3),

(a) are coated or covered with a coloured material; or

(b) have been modified by the attachment to the lamps or the motor vehicle of any device that reduces the effective area of the lenses or the intensity of the beam of the lamps. 2002, c. 18, Sched. P, s. 19 (1).

Exception

(7.1) Clause (7) (a) does not apply if the lamps are of the prescribed type or meet the prescribed standards. 2002, c. 18, Sched. P, s. 19 (1).

So the color part shouldn't really be an issue. I'd be more worried about the second bolded area.. there's an exception to it, but since i"m not lawyer, i'm not sure what to make of it.

Posted by: ice512

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stock R

I took a peak...

So the color part shouldn't really be an issue. I'd be more worried about the second bolded area.. there's an exception to it, but since i"m not lawyer, i'm not sure what to make of it.

but then HID in no way reduces the intensity or the effective area of the light, PLUS i dont plan on gettin a projector kit anyways, so i guess im all good ?? lolz...

Posted by: WoNGsTeR

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stock R

have been modified by the attachment to the lamps or the motor vehicle of any device that reduces the effective area of the lenses or the intensity of the beam of the lamps. 2002, c. 18, Sched. P, s. 19 (1). .

Yea p lam you should be ok... cause hid do not reduces the lighting......

Posted by: WoNGsTeR

ok.. just asked my friend.. about the housing part. Technically it is illegal to make changes to the housing, but most of the time if he sees a car that is modded with the headlight housing wont pull them over, but if he was to pull u over for speeding or something.. and he wants to be a ******* cause the driver is pissing him off than he will add that charge... so basically all depends on the cop .. cause its not really worth it for the cop to pull u over for that minor charge, but if he wants to be a ******* abt it he will.

Posted by: mandrsn1

I know in the US it is against the law to replace headleads with non-DOT approved lights. There are no DOT approved aftermarket HID kits, thus you cannot technically do it legally. On the otherhand, I have been running with HIDs for about a year now with no troubles.

Posted by: eimajuno

Down here in LA/OC area, there are a ton of cars that have aftermarket HIDs. I am planning on putting them in my truck since my halogens suck. Plus I can get them online for pretty cheap.

Posted by: WoNGsTeR

yea the states laws are a lil more better than laws in canada or ontario...

Posted by: oneluckymo

since a lot experts here... which HID is the best? which brand? and 6000K or 8000K or 10000K looks nicer? i don't really care if it's ligal or not as long as it's nice blueish and really bright!

Posted by: eimajuno

I believe that C^2 has some philips HIDs in his car. That is what I am thinking about getting for my truck. Not to sure what "k" though.

Posted by: chops

Quote:

Originally Posted by oneluckymo

since a lot experts here... which HID is the best? which brand? and 6000K or 8000K or 10000K looks nicer? i don't really care if it's ligal or not as long as it's nice blueish and really bright!

if you want a bluish tint dont go over 8000k...or else it just gets to purple. imo i like 5500-6500k the most...but remember if you get any kind of H.I.D make sure you get some projectors or else the glare will blind oncoming traffic.

Posted by: oneluckymo

Quote:

Originally Posted by chopsu3i

i have a 99 Cougar and the headlights are projection... i think... with the round lense you mean right?

Posted by: ice512

But then there are a lot of cars that comes with HID without projector and they are just fine.

Example :
1999-2002 Acura TL
1999-2002 Lexus ES 300
2000's Mecerdes C Class or E Class
Infiniti G35 both sedan and coupe

Posted by: WoNGsTeR

Quote:

Originally Posted by P_Lam

But then there are a lot of cars that comes with HID without projector and they are just fine.

Example :
1999-2002 Acura TL
1999-2002 Lexus ES 300
2000's Mecerdes C Class or E Class
Infiniti G35 both sedan and coupe

it depends on how headlight housing is designed or how they manufacturer points the HID too....

i gotta do my shocks this year.. so maybe next season i will do hid... and prob install projector angel eyes for mine..

Posted by: dcomp11

Quote:

Originally Posted by WoNGsTeR

yea the states laws are a lil more better than laws in canada or ontario...

I disagree. Both Canadian and American vehicle lighting regulations are a sham compared to the ECE standard the rest of the world uses. At least Canada permits ECE headlamps, the US doesn't.

Posted by: Paolo

some us states will allow ECE lighting, but again, its banned in other states, so driving with them would be kinda musk at best. in canada thankfully we allow ece lighting, i even heard some euro cars HAD ece lighting from the factory, dunno which

Posted by: WoNGsTeR

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcomp11

I disagree. Both Canadian and American vehicle lighting regulations are a sham compared to the ECE standard the rest of the world uses. At least Canada permits ECE headlamps, the US doesn't.

when i made that statement.. i didnt just mean headlamps.. but for modding the car overall..

Posted by: huskyfan23

Quote:

Originally Posted by oneluckymo

since a lot experts here... which HID is the best? which brand? and 6000K or 8000K or 10000K looks nicer? i don't really care if it's ligal or not as long as it's nice blueish and really bright!

4300K will give you the most usable light and still have the bluish tint to it. The higher you go the higher the color, and less light output. Stock vehicles use in the 4000K range. Philips/Osram are the best bulbs. Get Hella/Bosch/Philips ballasts.

I've got bi-xenon HID projectors retrofitted into my headlamps. It's illegal but they're aimed properly. I've never been flashed/pulled over for the 2 years I've had them. I see cops at night all the time and they don't seem to notice/care.

Aftermarket HID kits ARE illegal unless DOT approved (I believe only the Sylvania Xenarc kits are DOT approved).

Also, halogen projectors are different from HID projectors. You will have to swap out the entire projector.

Posted by: wirelessdude04

could I put some HID on my 2005 nissan altima 3.5se

Posted by: dynamo768

I live in NJ, and I want to put HID in my car. I have Toyota Camry. Anybody here know which one should I get? but I don't want get stop my cops lol

Posted by: chops

you can put HID in any car with headlights...

and theres a VERY good chance you wont get pulled over by cops for HIDs especially if you have 4000-5000k...they are on almost all the new luxury cars, so cops dont stop people for them.

Posted by: ice512

ok guys, i got response from the YRP and here's the REAL, OFFICIAL way to check if your HIDs are legal or not. Hope this will help you guys in the future.

Thank you for your interest in Project ERASE. Lighting is one of the most common concerns for vehicle modifiers and the courts have recently made descisions that impact lighting laws.

First, I am going to assume that when you are talking about installing HID lighting, you are referring to your headlights as opposed to fog lights, marker lights or other lights. There are many types of HID lights available on the market and some are knock-offs or look-alikes which are cheaper and not approved for use. The easiest way to check to see if your lights are proper or imporoper is to hold a piece of white paper 1 meter away from the lens of the light. If the light refracts into a rainbow pattern or other colours are observed, then your light is improper. If the light is cast as white and white only, then your light is proper. Don't forget to check the outside edge of the beam of light, not only the centre. The problem with this test is that you have to buy and install the light before testing it; you probably won't get your money back if the bulb fails the test.

Some times, the light bulb on HID lighting appears blue. This can be misleading; eventhough the bulb is blue, the light is still white. This HID light can also be a distraction to other motorists, so be aware of that. There is a second test found in Ontario Regulation 611 which says:
(b) in the case of a dual beam headlamp inspected visually on the lower beam,

(i) the top edge of the low beam high-intensity zone shall be not more than 100 millimetres above nor more than 100 millimetres below the horizontal centre-line of the lamp, and

(ii) the left edge of the low beam high-intensity zone shall be not more than 100 millimetres to the left nor more than 100 millimetres to the right of the vertical centre-line of the lamp,

as measured on a screen placed 8 metres in front of the lamp or by means of a headlamp testing machine in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions; and

(c) in the case of a single beam headlamp inspected visually, the centre of the high-intensity zone of the beam shall be,

(i) not more than 100 millimetres above nor more than 100 millimetres below the horizontal centre-line of the lamp, and

(ii) not more than 100 millimetres to the left nor more than 100 millimetres to the right of the vertical centre-line of the lamp,

as measured on a screen placed 8 metres in front of the lamp, or by means of a headlamp testing machine in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions.

The complete section can be found on this link in Schedule 1 under 'Lighting': http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/DBLaws/...sh/900611_e.htm

Pat Foran of CTV's Consumer Alert just did a spot on this type of lighting in early February. You may be able to find a link to it on the CTV.ca site or Pat Foran's Consumer Alert site.

I hope this information is what you needed to know.
PC Mike Lacroix CD #1104
York Regional Police
Traffic Bureau
17250 Yonge St, Newmarket ON L3Y 4W5
905-830-0303 X7703
fax 905-841-0665
1-866-8POLICE
1104@police.york.on.ca
www.yorkregionsavealife.ca

Posted by: c^2

Quote:

Originally Posted by P_Lam

Some times, the light bulb on HID lighting appears blue. This can be misleading; eventhough the bulb is blue, the light is still white.

HID bulbs are never blue. I think he confused rice bulbs with HIDs.

Posted by: KroniK

Installing Hid's into a vehicle that did not come with them from the factory is illegal. HID kits are illegal due to the glare that they cause. Glare is Light that is emitted in a Uncontrollable path. When light is traveling in a uncontrollable path it can hit other vehicle operators affecting there vision because of the High amount of uncontrollable light that is being Emitted from a HID kit in a standard Halogen housing. If you have ever turned a flashlight on right in front of your face while it is dark out, that is the same feeling that the other drivers on the road experience from a standard HID kit.

Article stating why the kits are illegal.
http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/rulings/glare.html

Have you checked out Hidplanet.com? They have some pretty good stuff there and on there forums as well.
Hidplanet Forums
You need to register to view there forums.

Posted by: ice512

Quote:

Originally Posted by KroniK

Installing Hid's into a vehicle that did not come with them from the factory is illegal. HID kits are illegal due to the glare that they cause. Glare is Light that is emitted in a Uncontrollable path. When light is traveling in a uncontrollable path it can hit other vehicle operators affecting there vision because of the High amount of uncontrollable light that is being Emitted from a HID kit in a standard Halogen housing. If you have ever turned a flashlight on right in front of your face while it is dark out, that is the same feeling that the other drivers on the road experience from a standard HID kit.

Article stating why the kits are illegal.
http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/rulings/glare.html

Have you checked out Hidplanet.com? They have some pretty good stuff there and on there forums as well.
Hidplanet Forums
You need to register to view there forums.

Well apparantly its ok to use it here in Canada. Too bad for the ppl in the states ~

Posted by: Stock R

P_Lam - C^2 is right. It seems the response to your email is directly in regards to those "xenon light bulbs" they sell at pacific mall. I'd consider double checking the issue. I'll see if I can email the MTO and see what they say.

Posted by: WoNGsTeR

to tell u the truth.. this is a really grey area. as long as ur bulbs are not blue, but are white and yellow, and you have pointed the lights properly and its not distracting on coming traffic or the driver infront of you... the police will leave you alone.. they actually prefer you to have better lighting to see at night to reduce accidents.

Posted by: WoNGsTeR

I was at the mazda dealership with my gf cause she wants to get a new car.. and we were interested in the mazda 3... and i mentioned to the salesrep about HIDs, and he mention to me that they are passing a law next year to ban HID... does anybody know about this?

Posted by: c^2

Quote:

Originally Posted by WoNGsTeR

I was at the mazda dealership with my gf cause she wants to get a new car.. and we were interested in the mazda 3... and i mentioned to the salesrep about HIDs, and he mention to me that they are passing a law next year to ban HID... does anybody know about this?

I call BS on this one. Which dealership was this? Markham Mazda? If so, I wouldn't be suprised.

FYI, the Mazda3 will be available with factory HIDs starting from the 07 model year.

Posted by: WoNGsTeR

yea its the one on Markham and Finch... so man when we went in.. there was two sales rep available and hot chick.. and a old man.. the old man approached us.. sigh... lol..