vB Easy Archive - Unlock Phones !!!!!

Pages: 1

Unlock Phones !!!!!
(Click here to view the original thread with full colors/images)

Posted by: aah_tree

Let me put it this way, unlocking is legal u know why, in toronto, u can bring any GSM phones to FIDO and they will unlock it for you for 200 bucks.. If it is illagel, then fido will be ****ed up already....

Posted by: F.Ruehl

Quote:

Originally posted by aah_tree
Let me put it this way, unlocking is legal u know why, in toronto, u can bring any GSM phones to FIDO and they will unlock it for you for 200 bucks.. If it is illagel, then fido will be ****ed up already....

It's so simple: Unlocking is legal if done by the provider. You pay back the subsidy and everything is OK: no copyright violation, no financial damage for the provider.
Unlocking is illegal if done without the consent of the provider and without paying back the subsidy (as offered by Spear).

Posted by: Killa-b

explain this. i buy a phone from cityphone and its locked, no contract.

i take it to fido and get it un locked and use it on fido, i stop my cityphone usage. how does city make up their sub?

Posted by: aah_tree

i guess u are right but then why does fido will actually unlocked phones for u? then wat good does city actually do???
who cares about if it is legal or not, i guess once u own the phone, that phone is urs, u pay for it. it is not owned by the network.... it is ur porpoty... i guess it iss legal to unlock phones right SPEAR?????

Posted by: Schukey

It's probably only illegal in Germany.

Posted by: F.Ruehl

Quote:

Originally posted by Killa-b
explain this. i buy a phone from cityphone and its locked, no contract.

i take it to fido and get it un locked and use it on fido, i stop my cityphone usage. how does city make up their sub?

Is Cityphone a provider or just a phone dealer?

Posted by: F.Ruehl

Quote:

Originally posted by Schukey
It's probably only illegal in Germany.

Nope. Copyright is universal. And fraud is prosecuted in North America, too, isn't it?

Posted by: matrix81

Quote:

Originally posted by F.Ruehl

Nope. Copyright is universal. And fraud is prosecuted in North America, too, isn't it?

Mr Ruehl.

Please stop with your techinicality here.. I guess German people are very honest about these unlocking issues, but Americans are very forgiving about this "sin" of unlocking your stinking cell phone

Posted by: F.Ruehl

Quote:

Originally posted by matrix81
Please stop with your techinicality here.. I guess German people are very honest about these unlocking issues, but Americans are very forgiving about this "sin" of unlocking your stinking cell phone

I'm sorry if I embarassed you with technicality but it was necessary to show that some statements and opinions regarding unlocking are simply wrong.

Posted by: AdmiralAK

If you own the phone then you can unlock it yourlsef if need be.
People unlock phones from prepaid packages in greece every day at local stores because they just dont like the rates of the prepaid package.

If you rented the phone or did not own it then you couldnt do anything on your own, bus since you are the owner then you can unlock it. Its your property, its legal.

Admiral

Posted by: F.Ruehl

[QUOTE]Originally posted by AdmiralAK
If you own the phone then you can unlock it yourlsef if need be.
People unlock phones from prepaid packages in greece every day at local stores because they just dont like the rates of the prepaid package.

Especially with prepaid packages unlocking is illegal since you breach the contract to stay with your provider for a given time. You inflict a financial damage on your provider by "stealing" the subsidy. In other words: This is fraud.

If you rented the phone or did not own it then you couldnt do anything on your own, bus since you are the owner then you can unlock it. Its your property, its legal.

You're wrong. See what I wrote earlier here and in the other thread. Keywords: software copyright and unauthorized altering of data.

Posted by: AdmiralAK

Is this the law in germany ?
Or is this international law ?

When you buy a prepaid package there is no set amount of time that you have to stay with them, that is the reason it is prepaid and you dont have a contract.

IF there is a "contract" inside the box with the prepadi package, then I agree with you that you are bound by those terms. If there is not contract in or out of the box you are not.

Furthermore, unlocking doesnt mean not using a certain provider. You can unlock it and still use the same provider. The concepts are not mutually exclussive.

Admiral

Posted by: F.Ruehl

Quote:

Originally posted by AdmiralAK
Is this the law in germany ?
Or is this international law ?

Copyright is international law. Fraud is punishable everywhere, too.

When you buy a prepaid package there is no set amount of time that you have to stay with them, that is the reason it is prepaid and you dont have a contract.

Usually there is a certain amount of time that you cannot use your phone with another privider. Here in Germany you have to stay with the original provider for 2 years or pay ~80$ before you can legally unlock you phone.

IF there is a "contract" inside the box with the prepadi package, then I agree with you that you are bound by those terms. If there is not contract in or out of the box you are not.

I don't know of any prepaid package that doesn't come with some sort of service contract. It's just that you don't have a monthly fee.
Even if there's no contract at all: If

- the provider lock is part of the prepaid package description
- the provider lock is communicated on the advertising
- you are told of the provider lock in the store

then you agreed to this condition when buying the package. You're bound to it.

Furthermore, unlocking doesnt mean not using a certain provider. You can unlock it and still use the same provider. The concepts are not mutually exclussive.

Are you serious with this? The original provider sells you a subsidized phone and *of course* doesn't want you to use another provider. You knew this and you accepted this by signing the contract. If you unlock and use another provider then you breach the contract and steal (at least part of) the subsidy.

Posted by: AdmiralAK

Hmmm....were to start

1) I want to see proof of this sim-subsidy-lock international copyright(any web sites that you can point me to ?

)

2) I am serious on my last point. One might have a SIM card from another provider that they want to copy contacts over to their new phone. Or in the case of prepaid packages sometimes you cant find a place to get a renewal coupon (maybe because of the time of day and most shops are closed) and you need to make an important call and you just have another SIM with you, that has some $$$ in it available. I unlocked my phones just to be able to do the SIM swapping thing and save SMSs, get phone numbers from other people and so on.

3) On the prepaid package deals, everytime I have gone with my friends (in greece) to get a prepaid package I have not seen writings on the package that it is locked, nor have the store people told us that it was locked. Only after we tried to swap phones (his 3310 and my T28w) for a couple of days did we find out his nokia was locked.

4) As I said before, for plans I have no problem with rules because its in the contract or in company policy to unlock the phone after xxx amount of money has been paid or if xxxx amount of time has passed. My company here in the USA has a provision that you must be a customer for 3 months before you can unlock your phone (and with good financial standing). Those are just the rules. My beef is with the prepaid packages

-- thats what I want to clear up.

Admiral

Posted by: F.Ruehl

Quote:

Originally posted by AdmiralAK
1) I want to see proof of this sim-subsidy-lock international copyright(any web sites that you can point me to ?[/B]

General copyright is applicable that prohibits the unathorized change of software. You're never the owner but only a licensee. It's the same for your PC software as for your telephone software. There's no need for special SIM lock subclauses.

2) I am serious on my last point. One might have a SIM card from another provider that they want to copy contacts over to their new phone. Or in the case of prepaid packages sometimes you cant find a place to get a renewal coupon (maybe because of the time of day and most shops are closed) and you need to make an important call and you just have another SIM with you, that has some $$$ in it available. I unlocked my phones just to be able to do the SIM swapping thing and save SMSs, get phone numbers from other people and so on.

I understand that. However, from a legal point of view it's not OK.

3) On the prepaid package deals, everytime I have gone with my friends (in greece) to get a prepaid package I have not seen writings on the package that it is locked, nor have the store people told us that it was locked. Only after we tried to swap phones (his 3310 and my T28w) for a couple of days did we find out his nokia was locked.

That's not OK. If the lock comes as a complete surprise then it's not part of a contract whatsoever.

4) As I said before, for plans I have no problem with rules because its in the contract or in company policy to unlock the phone after xxx amount of money has been paid or if xxxx amount of time has passed. My company here in the USA has a provision that you must be a customer for 3 months before you can unlock your phone (and with good financial standing). Those are just the rules. My beef is with the prepaid packages -- thats what I want to clear up.

Here in Germany subsidized phones that you buy with a plan are never locked. You pay for them with your monthly fee over 2 years. Only the prepaid packages have locked phones and it is clearly stated: You mustn't use the phone with another provider for 2 years or pay ~80$.

Posted by: spear

Hey people don't listen him that in Germany unlocking is illegal.
Almost 60% of mu customers come from Germany.
I can confirm here that every service center, every shop and every second student in Germany make unlocking. Yes Frank, this is the true. And they make good money!
You can continue your bla bla bla here, but it have not efect like you see of all messages above.
You are alone - sorry.

You can stop now and go to drink something...

regards,
spear

Posted by: aah_tree

Well, who cares about if it is legal or not, as long as it can be used, then it is fine right? And who cares about the lost of money from the network right? think of it this way, if there is no unlocking, then i will need to be tied up in 1 network. But the reality is i payed for my phone at cost, it is all from my pocket, after contract is over, i can do anything about it. but if u buy it from ebay, then it coems as is, u pay for it or someone actually paid for it, so i guess it will just fine if u are going to unlock it..

Posted by: matrix81

NOW EVERYONE..

What Mr. Ruehl is saying is that
1. you can not unlock your phone, because it's unethical
2. You shouldn't buy unlocked phones from ebay because it's unethical
3. you shouldn't call your service provider to ask for unlocking code because it's unethical.
4. you should shave your head, and become a priest and go in to the mountain and meditate and forget about all this wordly stuff

Posted by: AdmiralAK

All joking aside, I enjoy this conversation cause its cause for a debate and I havent been in one for a while

In greece too phones on a plan are never locked, and as a matter of fact you can pick out any phone from a wide selection, unlike here.

Posted by: aah_tree

i love this topic too.
it is fun to read wat other ppl have to say..
hahahaa.

UNLOCK all u want ppl
it is legal.
if it is illagel, the how come fido in toront will unlock phoesn for you??

it is a company dummie......
if they are ok with unlocking then we can do it too

right?
agree

Posted by: mawti

I think Frank is just pissed cuz we stealing food off his table!

Posted by: F.Ruehl

Sadly some of you guys have run out of arguments and start bullying now. Since this is not much fun here is my last post on this matter:

1. My arguments showed that unlocking is illegal when it means fraud by stealing the phone subsidy and/or violating phone software copyright.
2. This implies that in these cases unlocking services offered by guys like Spear are illegal, too, even if the guys pretend otherwise.
3. The fact that many people use unlocking services doesn't make them legal.

See you on more S40 related topics in other threads.