vB Easy Archive - How do you answer this question about upgrading?

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How do you answer this question about upgrading?
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Posted by: anubis9278

the question, " When did Cingular start this? Has Cingular always charged an upgrade fee, I never remember paying for it before?

the correct answer is something like since 1993. But how would you phrase it?

Posted by: brealmp3

i'm glad the reseller i work for doesn't charge an upgrade fee. i really think it is silly to charge someone $18 to copy thier contacts to their sim and then take it out and place it in another phone.

what if someone offers to transfer all their contacts and change the sim themselves, do they still get the fee?

Posted by: Mattb2005

the fee is for the man hours and time for the associate and electricity and overhead costs it takes to upgrade someone

Posted by: anubis9278

Quote:

Originally Posted by brealmp3

i'm glad the reseller i work for doesn't charge an upgrade fee. i really think it is silly to charge someone $18 to copy thier contacts to their sim and then take it out and place it in another phone.

what if someone offers to transfer all their contacts and change the sim themselves, do they still get the fee?

reseller? i'm talking about Cingular.

Posted by: SoCal91302

Quote:

Originally Posted by brealmp3

If thats what you consider an upgrade, the yes.. that is foolish. Then again most resellers charge $25 for a SIM card that should be free.

Posted by: brealmp3

An upgrade is not that hard, nor time consuming. Please explain to me what could be about it? Normal circumstances customers have already had the service for almost a year so they know what they need and want.

As for sims, I give them away for free if for a valid reason. The only time I charge for a sim is if someone keeps blocking it by messing with pin or puk code.

Matt if it takes you hours to do an upgrade then that explains why there is the fee. Well the one thing I used to love is that you used to send the people who came to upgrade out of your store and have them do it online because, you tell them the phones are cheaper online. So you don't have to spend all the man hours doing an upgrade.

Posted by: elushon

I tell people that I honestly do not know why they are charging the upgrade fee or what it's actually for.

Everyone so far has accepted that with a chuckle, repected my honesty, and signed.

Posted by: brealmp3

/\/\/\ honestly i think that is the right answer.

Posted by: ivwshane

Quote:

Originally Posted by elushon

I tell people that I honestly do not know why they are charging the upgrade fee or what it's actually for.

Everyone so far has accepted that with a chuckle, repected my honesty, and signed.

That's basically what I say too.

I can't explain it and the only explanation I get from the company is, "It's like an activation fee but since they are already customers we give them a discount on the fee. So in reality they are saving $18 instead of paying $36". Uh sure...

Posted by: BellaDea

i'm sure there's a lot of back end costs that the upgrade fee helps to pay for considering when the company does an upgrade (like an activation) they lose money on the phones and stuff like that. but it's not something explained to customers, i say just go with the whole "i'm not sure, it's just there" kindof thing.

and I know it's not associated with transfering numbers, that's just rediculous....

Posted by: ivwshane

Of course there is a lot of backend cost but it's the same as it's always been and the upgrade fee is not something that all carriers charge nor is it something that's been around for a while.

No matter how you look at it or spin it it's a bs charge. At least with an activation fee you can say that some of that money is used for the credit check.

Posted by: BellaDea

actually most companies charge an upgrade fee.

Posted by: brealmp3

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivwshane

Of course there is a lot of backend cost but it's the same as it's always been and the upgrade fee is not something that all carriers charge nor is it something that's been around for a while.

No matter how you look at it or spin it it's a bs charge. At least with an activation fee you can say that some of that money is used for the credit check.

or the cost of me having to activate a phone, but with an upgrade the phone is already active.

Posted by: ivwshane

Quote:

Originally Posted by BellaDea

actually most companies charge an upgrade fee.

That doesn't mean there is a legitimate reason for the charge.

Posted by: xj911

i never understood this fee...why not put the charge into the cost of the phone? then it doesn't seem so "sneaky" like they are trying to get one over on you.

Posted by: BellaDea

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivwshane

That doesn't mean there is a legitimate reason for the charge.

true, i never said that it was. i'm sure if you asked enough people in the company (like your managers, or regionals, or someone like that) you could find out the reason if there is one.

Posted by: Toothless Tommy

Quote:

Originally Posted by BellaDea

true, i never said that it was. i'm sure if you asked enough people in the company (like your managers, or regionals, or someone like that) you could find out the reason if there is one.

Crapular is the greedest company out there - thats why they charge it .

What is a regional ? = very elusive quasi hidden species that only comes out of hiding once or twice a year
Usually seen once a year at big fake sales rallys ( where they act like your best friend ) but never in the store talking to the reps

Posted by: brealmp3

but it does beat nextel's 35 dollar upgrage fee

Posted by: ivwshane

Quote:

Originally Posted by BellaDea

true, i never said that it was. i'm sure if you asked enough people in the company (like your managers, or regionals, or someone like that) you could find out the reason if there is one.

I have and my initial post is the answer I get. In fact I think that's the official response found on csp.

Quote:

but it does beat nextel's 35 dollar upgrage fee

Some companies are worse than others

Posted by: Alfred_Neuman

i wait till it pops up on their bill.

never when selling the phone.

oh, wait...........

Posted by: Rcadden

I did that ONCE, Alfred, and the guy came up and called me out. Haha. Told him I was sorry, i must've forgot (i really did, I normally let them know everything.). Guy ended up being my best customer, started with ONE phone, within a year I had him with 4 lines. Haha. Everytime I saw the guy he ended up with another phone on his account. Once he even came in to cancel one of them, ended up walking away with another one. Haha.

Posted by: Gibson714

Upgrade fees are charged because every time a company does an upgrade they lose quite a bit of money.Even for new activations,companies usually lose out on the phone and get all the money back in Voice and data services.Activation fees are charged to basically pay for your phone commissions.I used to work for Sprint Nextel and now for verizon and if someone asks me why Upgrade fees are charged,I simply tell them that it is so I can get a paycheck.Most people just laugh and end up signing up.

Posted by: hadeedg

i tell them its because it costs money to send the updated towerlist to their phone for new reception on the phone

everytime is different

Posted by: 1badprincess

The upgrade fee is based on one of cingular oh so important R's.... revenue. Most companies charge upgrade fees and I'm pretty sure Cingular's is the lowest. What I tell my customers is exactly that.... and pretty much give them a shrug and we both laugh at it. Large corporations always find some way to get a little more out of you.

Posted by: tennessee31

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1badprincess

The upgrade fee is based on one of cingular oh so important R's.... revenue. Most companies charge upgrade fees and I'm pretty sure Cingular's is the lowest. What I tell my customers is exactly that.... and pretty much give them a shrug and we both laugh at it. Large corporations always find some way to get a little more out of you.

No, Cingular's upgrade fee is not the lowest. Verizon doesn't charge an upgrade fee, neither does T-Mobile. I don't think Alltel has an upgrade fee on plans higher than $30. US Cellular charges $15. I think Sprint/Nextel is the only major provider with higher upgrade fees. Cingular's prices on just about everything are among the highest in the industry.

Posted by: sevensinz777

easy way of rephrasing about the upgrade fee is pulling a magic string and showering them with confetti and ballons and telling them YES WE WILL NOT WAIVE YOUR UPGRADE FEE - they will be so happy and leave your store smiling about all the confetti you just poured on their head

Posted by: Alfred_Neuman

just dont say a word about it. let cingular realize noone agrees with the fee.

trust me, ive only had maybe 10 people over 2 year span that complained about it.

Posted by: PhoneObsessive

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivwshane

That doesn't mean there is a legitimate reason for the charge.

So true.

Imagine a world where McDonalds charges an "order entry fee." You know, to legitimatly reduce the loss they take when they have to pay someone to enter the order.

Or perhaps a "toll takers fee." To offset the salary of the toll taker on a bridge. Sir, that will be $1.50 to cross the bridge ($1.25 for the bridge and $0.25 to pay my salary to sit here and take your money)

This fee is a charge to take your money. Rationalizing this one is impossible.

.jem

Posted by: Lambert

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alfred_Neuman

just dont say a word about it. let cingular realize noone agrees with the fee.

trust me, ive only had maybe 10 people over 2 year span that complained about it.

All this time you played the "victim" at your store. Good riddance.

Posted by: blessd24

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhoneObsessive

Its called a dine in tax. Thats why everything is to go for me.

Posted by: cingtd

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhoneObsessive

But remember, banks charge you to keep you money with them. So let's bash every bank while we are at it.

So instead of bashing cellular companies let's keep everything in perspective.

Posted by: 1BARFLY

Easy way to look at it, we charge an upgrade fee because the company wants to. if a customer has had Cingular for a long time and they feel that they shouldnt have to pay a fee then just tell them that you will call, customer service to see if they will waive it. Most of the time they will if they want to keep a customer. But that fee puts money in the companies hands which in return comes into ours, so I dont care either way.

Posted by: cingtd

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1BARFLY

Easy way to look at it, we charge an upgrade fee because the company wants to. if a customer has had Cingular for a long time and they feel that they shouldnt have to pay a fee then just tell them that you will call, customer service to see if they will waive it. Most of the time they will if they want to keep a customer. But that fee puts money in the companies hands which in return comes into ours, so I dont care either way.

I agree, it all depends how you approach it w/ cust svc rep. If you start the call screaming about the fee, it is not likely to be easily waived. If you polite and friendly, it is certainly possible the rep could waive the fee. It is always handled on a case by case basis so the resolution may not be the same every time.

Posted by: MissRich87

Quote:

Originally Posted by elushon

I tell people that I honestly do not know why they are charging the upgrade fee or what it's actually for.

Everyone so far has accepted that with a chuckle, repected my honesty, and signed.

Thats about what I say... I'm not sure why they do this. and in california no matter how discounted our phones are they tax off the full price... Does this happen to anyone else? If its free the tax is sometimes almost 30 or 40 bucks! How do you explain that one!?

Posted by: ivwshane

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissRich87

I just tell them that it's california law and cingular doesn't get any part of it. I also tell them I think it sucks too.

Posted by: Lambert

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissRich87

It's a California law that all providers charge tax on the full retail price. Remind them that they live (or are visiting in some cases) one of the most corrupt states in the union. Gotta pay for those hard working illegal alien medical bills and education somehow I guess.

Posted by: dizzle247

the upgrade fee is for people when they migrate over from blue to orange. It used to be called the "migrate" fee, but cingular changed it so that in order to get a discount on a phone, you would have to "upgrade" to an orange phone from a blue phone and sign another contract.

that's what i was taught in CSP .. look it up!

Posted by: ivwshane

Quote:

Originally Posted by dizzle247

the upgrade fee is for people when they migrate over from blue to orange. It used to be called the "migrate" fee, but cingular changed it so that in order to get a discount on a phone, you would have to "upgrade" to an orange phone from a blue phone and sign another contract.

that's what i was taught in CSP .. look it up!

Unfortunately the upgrade fee is charged when people upgrade their orange accounts too.

Posted by: dizzle247

well who gives a damn, waive the freaking fee is the customer *****es about it. haha

Posted by: SoCal91302

Quote:

Originally Posted by dizzle247

I have done a few hundred migrations and have never seen a customer get charged an upgrade or migration fee.

Posted by: tennessee31

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoCal91302

I have done a few hundred migrations and have never seen a customer get charged an upgrade or migration fee.

Yup. Upgrade fee is supposed to be waived for blue customers migrating to orange. There is no such thing as a migration fee. The upgrade fee is only for orange-orange or blue-blue account upgrades.

Posted by: dizzle247

technically, the migration fee got turned into the "upgrade" fee.

Posted by: cingtd

Keep it simple, an upgrade fee is charged when a customer upgrades their phone. With migration from Blue to Orange upgrade costs are waived.

Posted by: gregsmith59

Keep it simple: Cingular wants their prices to look like other carriers, but doesn't exactly want to honor those prices. So they take back $18 when you get a new phone, because they can.

They tried to do the same with blue to orange migrations, but it looked so bad that they eventually removed the charge.

Posted by: Gibson714

Its $18-$36 depending on what company.That is not much money.It has been my experience that most people dont even complain about it ,they might ask why but will accept pretty much any answer you give them.The people that complain are usually the same people who always want to know how much a phone cost after tax because they might not have enough money to pay for it.

Posted by: MissRich87

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lambert

Oh how right you are

Posted by: Lambert

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivwshane

I just tell them that it's california law and cingular doesn't get any part of it. I also tell them I think it sucks too.

Shane..

This guy quoted you as saying that it is California law that you get charged for the upgrade fee.. when in fact you were refering to the sales tax.

Anyone California residents reading this from douchebag's article please visit http://www.boe.ca.gov/proptaxes/proptax.htm and complain about the unfair practice of charging full tax on discount phones. Even if you get a $500 phone for free it can still cost you over $40 for the device. And Bob, that 90's look is getting old.

Posted by: Cingularsucks08

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivwshane

Then the company is lying to YOU!

My parents and I were with AT&T for 15 years before we wanted to upgrade our phones last January(2005) and were forced to "upgrade" to Cingular. I say "upgrade" because in reality, it has been nothing but a complete downgrade and not worth the money.

When we switched over to Cingular, they saw the $18 dollar charge per phone totalling $54. When my mother called to inquire about the charge, she was told by NUMEROUS people that it was because of the merge. I guess they didn't know who they were messing with.

My mother quickly had her call transferred to a supervisor, wrote a letter to the corporate office for Cingular and made sure they KNEW that it is not good business practice to make your customers PAY for a decision that the company made and made without asking the customers.

After about 10 more phone calls, we got our money back. *Persistance seems to be key with Cingular*

Not only has the service been HORRIBLE since the switch, but policies that we were used to as AT&T customers no longer held true. Cingular is infamous for changing policy and not notifying the customer.

Last summer, when it was a lovely 115 degrees outside, I of course could not get service in my apartment. Nor could I get it in my parents house. I had to go OUTSIDE in my car with the sweltering 115 degree heat and make my phone calls. Not to mention, I had more dropped calls in ONE DAY with Cingular than I have had in 4 months with T-Mobile. I literally have only had 1 dropped call with T-Mobile, better service, better plan, cheaper plan, and amazing customer service. (Not to mention, a nice phone... I'm in love with my blue pebl!)

I got my bill from Cingular and hi-lighted every dropped call on the bill which literally was more than half the bill, and called them and finally received a credit. BUT the service didn't get better... so I kept having dropped calls, so I finally said to hell with it. I'm switching.

While my number is still under contract with Cingular, my parents added my number to their family plan and simply don't use the phone.

I'm now with T-Mobile and enjoying every second. I will say that my brothers have Verizon and are exceptionally happy. Sprint - not worth ****!
If you have bad credit and you resort to Sprint, you might as well go to T-Mobile.

I pay LESS MONEY with T-Mobile for a BETTER PLAN than Cingular.
1000 minutes with free nights and weekends for $49.99 and UNLIMITED ANY KIND OF TEXT MESSAGING (including Instant Messenger, picture messages, video messages, text messages, emails, etc.) for 14.99 more.
Cingular - I only had 450 minutes for 39.99 and for 20 dollars more I added only 2500 incoming and outgoing text messages. NOT including messenger or picture or video messages.

So for 5 dollars more, I get better service, a better plan, more messages (I'm addicted to text messages) and more minutes!!!!!

Cingular screws you... they have no reason to charge the price they do for their plans!!!!!

Posted by: ivwshane

Quote:

Cingular - I only had 450 minutes for 39.99 and for 20 dollars more I added only 2500 incoming and outgoing text messages. NOT including messenger or picture or video messages.

Just so you know, $20 now gets you 3000 messages that can be used for text or picture messages

Posted by: Cingularsucks08

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivwshane

Just so you know, $20 now gets you 3000 messages that can be used for text or picture messages

Let me do a cartwheel.
500 more messages?!?!? Doesn't beat unlimited ANY message. Not to mention, that 3000 includes incoming *which they don't tell you when you change your plan if you had free incoming messages before*.

ALSO - Cingular has a problem with text messages. Cingular customers send one message, but to whoever they send it to, that person gets duplicates. NUMEROUS duplicates. and are being charged for those duplicates. *a way for Cingular to **gasp** once again SCREW YOU OVER*... nice thinking Cingular!

Posted by: brealmp3

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cingularsucks08

i think you have way more problems in your life than just a cell phone bill. besides this is an employee section.

Posted by: Naruto62

I work for a Authorized dealer. According to my account executives, activation/upgrade fees are collected for network enhancements. I tell customers they are paying for all of the improvments Cingular has made in their network over the last 21 months.

Posted by: ivwshane

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naruto62

I work for a Authorized dealer. According to my account executives, activation/upgrade fees are collected for network enhancements. I tell customers they are paying for all of the improvments Cingular has made in their network over the last 21 months.

That's a good one.

Posted by: blessd24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cingularsucks08

Get off the employee forum doofus. Go the rant forum, we don't care about your freaking problems.

Posted by: Cingularsucks08

Quote:

Originally Posted by blessd24

Get off the employee forum doofus. Go the rant forum, we don't care about your freaking problems.

who is to say I'm NOT an employee?!?!?! DOOFUS!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: ivwshane

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cingularsucks08

who is to say I'm NOT an employee?!?!?! DOOFUS!!!!!!!!!!!

Because if you were an employee you wouldn't be complaining about unlimited text messages because as employees we get unlimited text

Posted by: Cingularsucks08

Quote:

Originally Posted by brealmp3

i think you have way more problems in your life than just a cell phone bill. besides this is an employee section.

hmmm, and you base that on what?????

Posted by: Cingularsucks08

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivwshane

Because if you were an employee you wouldn't be complaining about unlimited text messages because as employees we get unlimited text

employee forum or not, I'm simply telling your that your company is lying to you to save face because they KNOW they can have multiple law suits against them had they told their CSRs the TRUTH About why they are charging that $18 dollars and they're CSRs would have to respond to their customers with the TRUTH about the charge!

lawsuit heaven

Posted by: blessd24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cingularsucks08

who is to say I'm NOT an employee?!?!?! DOOFUS!!!!!!!!!!!

Because you sound like an 18 year old girl (only 18 because otherwise you wouldn't be able to get a phone on your own plan) who doesn't know the first thing about business.

Posted by: Cingularsucks08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Naruto62

they haven't done **** to improve their network... it sucks more now than it did a year ago...

and guess what... holy ****, what do you know, their network is down in AUSTIN TEXAS at the moment. I can't even get ahold of my parents...

so improving their network my ***!!!

Posted by: ivwshane

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lambert

I just now saw the article, lambert and now I know what you are talking about. Talk about being sneaky.
misquoting a person to bolster up a story is about as dirty as you can get.

Thanks

Posted by: brealmp3

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cingularsucks08

how long have you had t-mobile

Posted by: Cingularsucks08

Quote:

Originally Posted by blessd24

Because you sound like an 18 year old girl (only 18 because otherwise you wouldn't be able to get a phone on your own plan) who doesn't know the first thing about business.

you're kidding right???? I know a LOT about business... not to mention, I have my own plan and could have had my own plan YEARS ago... my parents just decided to spoil me and keep me on their plan

Posted by: Cingularsucks08

Quote:

Originally Posted by brealmp3

how long have you had t-mobile

I had them years ago before I went off to college and switched to AT&T because I was in the damn boondocks and couldn't get service with my dinky motorola v100. I switched back over 4 months ago

Posted by: i0wnj00

Oh boy...back to the days of indy.

Not again.

Posted by: badgermac

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattb2005

the fee is for the man hours and time for the associate and electricity and overhead costs it takes to upgrade someone

I thought that's what the monthly service fees were for.

The upgrade fee is BS. It's hard to justify them. It's a corporate mandated fee. "I don't necessarily like it, but I can't waive it, it's corporate."

Posted by: GBULM1234

I dont' feel sorry for those customers who complain about the upgrade fee, its in your contract when you renew, most of the time you are told upfront or its on the contract in plain site you sign. If your too lazy to ready the fine print then don't sign the contract that way you can't complain about getting charged something you don't remember seeing. As far as cingular is concerned about upgrade fee, it not like we all the sudden started doing this, I have worked here over 4 years, before cingular infact, and we have charged 18 upgrade fee's since cingular was in existence. There should be no surprises to existing customer. And before all the At&T people say it , yes cingular charged up to migrate at first and you were being charged just like every other customer, however cingular dropped the upgrade fee for migration and former blue customer got the better end of that deal, if you want to talk about fair that is, I don't see how blue customers not getting charged to essentially upgrade and orangle customers being subjected to the fee is fair but its is business and I do understand you have to do things to achieve certain goals within the company. as a rep, and manager I have seen some stupid practices, but if cingular wants to charge and upgrade fee and they do, then there is nothing we can do about it, and cingular will continue to charge because they can and they have always done it. NO there should be no surprises that if you upgrade you are getting charged.

Posted by: lili96ilil

Here is why people are mad about the upgrade charge, including myself.

First of all, no Cingular rep I have ever talked to can give you a straight answer on what the charge is for. It always comes down to "the man power, the time it takes to upgrade your phone, swapping SIMs for you, copying contacts, or the processing that needs to be done".

Well, that's a flat out lie. Nothing needs to be done other than me taking the SIM out of my old phone and placing it in my new phone. When this argument is presented to a customer service rep, they try hard to justify, but it simply can't be done.

Funny that if you get a phone through Cingular, in order for you to use your brand new phone, all this mysterious, labor intensive work/processing needs to be done that warrants an $18 charge. HOWEVER, if you decide to get a phone off ebay or from a friend, all you have to do is swap SIM cards and you're good to go.

That proves NOTHING needs to be done on Cingular's part to "upgrade" you. It's all automatic at this point.

Cingular, if you want to charge me $18 for buying a phone from you for whatever costs you need to cover, that's fine, but don't be sneaky about it. Don't call it an "Upgrade Charge" and pretend like work is being done to upgrade me. Add $18 on to the price of the phone and call it a day. No hidden/fine-print charges. Why wouldn't Cingular do something this simple?

Because they want you to think that you're getting that new phone for only $49.99. If the price tag you were staring at said $69.99, all of a sudden that phone may not seem like a great deal, and you'd be better off not upgrading or going with another service provider.

What's this mean? This means that they really want you to upgrade with the possibility of not having all the information that may make you consider other options. Why? Because "upgrading" locks you in for another 2 years.

Yes, it's in the fine print, but that doesn't mean it is not sneaky. And for the person who doesn't feel sorry for customers because they are too lazy to read all of the fine print, assuming you own a home, can you honestly tell me that you read every single word on the 100s of pages of documents you had to sign in order to get your loan?

$18 isn't that much, but it's the principle. Because of this principle, I refuse to ever buy a phone from Cingular. In fact, I'd be willing to pay the same price or more to get it elsewhere. That's what I did with my current phone; the Cingular 8525.

I broke my phone. Yes, my fault. So I went shopping on Cingular's site to get a new phone. I was outraged when I found out I had to pay an additional $18 for an Upgrade fee, since I was already well aware of how the SIM card system works. I asked the rep to explain the charge to me. She read from a script and gave me one of the standard answers. When I argued back with "you guys aren't actually doing anything other than selling me a phone", my point couldn't be rebutted with logic. I tried to get the free waved, but they said no. Nice way to treat of customer of 5+ years with automatic pay.

So, instead of getting my 8525 from Cingular, signing a 2 year contact, and paying an BS upgrade fee, I bought the same phone from ebay for the same price, but no contact and more importantly, no BS upgrade charge.

Once again, it's the principle, not the amount.

Recently, my son fired my SIM card, which meant I had to spend time on the phone with a rep. In the process of discussing options, she continuously tried to get me to upgrade my phone (I am out of contract, go figure), despite me saying, "I have the best phone you guys offer. I'm not interested in upgrading.". She was persistent and continued on, even mentioned she could wave the BS Upgrade charge. "Haha, oh really?", I laughed.

I mentioned again that I had no interest in upgrading, and said I didn't understand what the Upgrade Charge was for in the first place.

"Would you like me to explain that to you, Sir", she asked, obviously not realizing what she was getting herself into.

"Yes, I would love that!", I replied, "I've talked to many reps about that, and no one could really explain it."

For some reason, I thought it was going to be different this time. To my disappointment, she went down the same path that everyone else did, "The upgrade charge covers the processing involved when upgrading your phone.", she said.

So when I started to reply back with my points, she didn't listen, cut me of, and pretty much read the standard, customer-does-not-agree-with-what-I-just-said apology. Haha... She didn't even listen to my points. That's more insulting that listening, and then lying to me again.

Whatever the case, Cingular, just come clean, don't be sneaky, and add the charge to the price of the phone.

I think I'm going to go put my BMW on ebay. I'll give it a killer Buy It Now price of $2000, but then charge $38,000 for shipping. Ha! That's what Cingular would do.

Keep on lying and insulting me, Cingular. Best way to lose a customer.

Posted by: The Champ

Quote:

Originally Posted by lili96ilil

Here is why people are mad about the upgrade charge, including myself.

First of all, no Cingular rep I have ever talked to can give you a straight answer on what the charge is for. It always comes down to "the man power, the time it takes to upgrade your phone, swapping SIMs for you, copying contacts, or the processing that needs to be done".

Well, that's a flat out lie. Nothing needs to be done other than me taking the SIM out of my old phone and placing it in my new phone. When this argument is presented to a customer service rep, they try hard to justify, but it simply can't be done.

Funny that if you get a phone through Cingular, in order for you to use your brand new phone, all this mysterious, labor intensive work/processing needs to be done that warrants an $18 charge. HOWEVER, if you decide to get a phone off ebay or from a friend, all you have to do is swap SIM cards and you're good to go.

That proves NOTHING needs to be done on Cingular's part to "upgrade" you. It's all automatic at this point.

Cingular, if you want to charge me $18 for buying a phone from you for whatever costs you need to cover, that's fine, but don't be sneaky about it. Don't call it an "Upgrade Charge" and pretend like work is being done to upgrade me. Add $18 on to the price of the phone and call it a day. No hidden/fine-print charges. Why wouldn't Cingular do something this simple?

Because they want you to think that you're getting that new phone for only $49.99. If the price tag you were staring at said $69.99, all of a sudden that phone may not seem like a great deal, and you'd be better off not upgrading or going with another service provider.

What's this mean? This means that they really want you to upgrade with the possibility of not having all the information that may make you consider other options. Why? Because "upgrading" locks you in for another 2 years.

Yes, it's in the fine print, but that doesn't mean it is not sneaky. And for the person who doesn't feel sorry for customers because they are too lazy to read all of the fine print, assuming you own a home, can you honestly tell me that you read every single word on the 100s of pages of documents you had to sign in order to get your loan?

$18 isn't that much, but it's the principle. Because of this principle, I refuse to ever buy a phone from Cingular. In fact, I'd be willing to pay the same price or more to get it elsewhere. That's what I did with my current phone; the Cingular 8525.

I broke my phone. Yes, my fault. So I went shopping on Cingular's site to get a new phone. I was outraged when I found out I had to pay an additional $18 for an Upgrade fee, since I was already well aware of how the SIM card system works. I asked the rep to explain the charge to me. She read from a script and gave me one of the standard answers. When I argued back with "you guys aren't actually doing anything other than selling me a phone", my point couldn't be rebutted with logic. I tried to get the free waved, but they said no. Nice way to treat of customer of 5+ years with automatic pay.

So, instead of getting my 8525 from Cingular, signing a 2 year contact, and paying an BS upgrade fee, I bought the same phone from ebay for the same price, but no contact and more importantly, no BS upgrade charge.

Once again, it's the principle, not the amount.

Recently, my son fired my SIM card, which meant I had to spend time on the phone with a rep. In the process of discussing options, she continuously tried to get me to upgrade my phone (I am out of contract, go figure), despite me saying, "I have the best phone you guys offer. I'm not interested in upgrading.". She was persistent and continued on, even mentioned she could wave the BS Upgrade charge. "Haha, oh really?", I laughed.

I mentioned again that I had no interest in upgrading, and said I didn't understand what the Upgrade Charge was for in the first place.

"Would you like me to explain that to you, Sir", she asked, obviously not realizing what she was getting herself into.

"Yes, I would love that!", I replied, "I've talked to many reps about that, and no one could really explain it."

For some reason, I thought it was going to be different this time. To my disappointment, she went down the same path that everyone else did, "The upgrade charge covers the processing involved when upgrading your phone.", she said.

So when I started to reply back with my points, she didn't listen, cut me of, and pretty much read the standard, customer-does-not-agree-with-what-I-just-said apology. Haha... She didn't even listen to my points. That's more insulting that listening, and then lying to me again.

Whatever the case, Cingular, just come clean, don't be sneaky, and add the charge to the price of the phone.

I think I'm going to go put my BMW on ebay. I'll give it a killer Buy It Now price of $2000, but then charge $38,000 for shipping. Ha! That's what Cingular would do.

Keep on lying and insulting me, Cingular. Best way to lose a customer.

No one is lying to you.

You realize Verizon and Sprint also have these charges too right? I'm not sure about Tmobile.

Same as the $36.00 activation fee.

It's all standard.

Posted by: coomac

I can see just how hard it is read through that behemoth cellphone contract totaling all of 1 page. If you're going to be bound to a little piece of paper for the next year or two, how hard is it to skim through it? Do you ignore the one or two page confidentiality agreement you sign when you start a new job then wonder why you got your behind fired for blabbing about your company's IP?

It's understandable if you got tens or hundreds of pages to look through, but when it's one or two pages, there is really no excuse. You don't have to read the entire thing, just skim through and make sure you got everything the rep or whomever 'forgot' to mention. The US would be a much better place if people took on a tiny bit of their share of responsibility.

With all that said, I completely agree that upgrading is automatic and the 'upgrade fee' is going towards paying for other stuff. It's unfortunate that tmobile is going this route as well.

Oh yeah, there's no advantage in buying phones from the carriers as it is. What with the phones being not only locked but completely crippled.

Posted by: lili96ilil

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Champ

No one is lying to you.

You realize Verizon and Sprint also have these charges too right? I'm not sure about Tmobile.

Same as the $36.00 activation fee.

It's all standard.

If my point was on the center of the island, you'd be drowning 50 miles off shore. You missed it.

1) Never did I state other companies didn't do the same. However, do Sprint and Verizon use SIMs? If not, maybe there is actual man work involved. I have no clue. I don't use them. However, if I did, and the situation was the same as Cingular's, I'd have the same complaint. And to counter whatever point you are trying to make, there are some companies who do not charge "upgrade" fees. But, lets not waste too much time discussing this, as this has absolutely nothing to do with the point I made.

2) I am being lied to; either directly by the CSR, or indirectly (since they most likely don't know the real reason either). When I am told, "It is for processing your upgrade", what do you call that? Why doesn't that processing need to be done if I get the phone elsewhere? Please explain. Why can't they go into more detail of what "processing" entails? Hmm... Maybe because they aren't actually "processing" anything?

They are doing nothing more than selling me a phone, period. Why break up the charge of the phone into separate categories and charge you at separate times? Hmm, maybe to make the phone appear cheaper than it really is?

Whatever the real answer is, I have begged Cingular to enlighten me, but they have yet to do so. Therefore, I'm left to come up with my own theories.

3) If this additional $18 goes to something other than padding their profit margin, that's fine, I have no problem paying it. I do have a problem with the apparent sneakiness and lack of information for the charge, and the shady way it is implemented.

Posted by: lili96ilil

Quote:

Originally Posted by coomac

I can see just how hard it is read through that behemoth cellphone contract totaling all of 1 page. If you're going to be bound to a little piece of paper for the next year or two, how hard is it to skim through it? Do you ignore the one or two page confidentiality agreement you sign when you start a new job then wonder why you got your behind fired for blabbing about your company's IP?

It's understandable if you got tens or hundreds of pages to look through, but when it's one or two pages, there is really no excuse. You don't have to read the entire thing, just skim through and make sure you got everything the rep or whomever 'forgot' to mention. The US would be a much better place if people took on a tiny bit of their share of responsibility.

With all that said, I completely agree that upgrading is automatic and the 'upgrade fee' is going towards paying for other stuff. It's unfortunate that tmobile is going this route as well.

Oh yeah, there's no advantage in buying phones from the carriers as it is. What with the phones being not only locked but completely crippled.

You're missing the point also. The point isn't that it's hard to read a one page contract. The point is that people don't do it, Cingular knows people don't do it, Cingular takes advantage of this by using as a way to make their phones appear cheaper than they really are. That's the point.

My point was not that I bought a phone from Cingular, got hit with the upgrade charge because I didn't read, and cried about it. That didn't happen to me. I'm way too smart for that, and know to check and double check stuff, especially when dealing with phone companies.

And even when people know about the charge before hand, the way Cingular implements the charge, people may still be more likely to go ahead with the purchase rather than see the phone for what it "really" costs. Kind of like how people are more willing to pay $29.99 for something, but not $30.00.

Posted by: yvonnebrc

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alfred_Neuman

i wait till it pops up on their bill.

never when selling the phone.

oh, wait...........

That is so shady. It' salespeople like you that make me look bad in the eyes of the customer. As rough as it may be to go over ALL the costs of an upgrade or an activations that's part of your job.

Posted by: Wonwad

I tell the customer about the upgrade before we talk about the phones, it makes things easier.

Posted by: oneaznriceboi

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Champ

No one is lying to you.

You realize Verizon and Sprint also have these charges too right? I'm not sure about Tmobile.

Same as the $36.00 activation fee.

It's all standard.

Verizon doesn't charge you an upgrade fee unless it is one of their exception upgrades when you hit your one year mark. They give you the NE2 discount as an incentive to stay with them and don't charge you a bogus upgrade fee. Quite frankly I think the $18"upgrade" fee is crap. When I was doing upgrades for customers, I felt bad that they had to pay that fee because for what? Me changing their sim cards? Well ATT, give me half of that $18 fee since I am doing a upgrade service. Yes I know I got comission but a measly $5 for upgrading an add a line up to a max of $15 per upgrade. (Worked for an agent) When I got my Verizon line days ago, I walked into the store because I had 4 lines and told them that I wanted to port 4 lines over and didn't want to pay acto. Got manager aproval and bam free acto. Cuz really $18 just to scan in a new IMEI and a new sim doesn't cost ATT $18. For upgrades, I could get a customer in and out in about 15 mins, sometimes even 10 mins.

Posted by: HTC_S60_Fan

I keep it real. I tell people we charge $18 for the upgrade..which is better then paying 436 for a new activation..if they rebuttal..simple..that's wha AT&T charges to process an upgrade...after that sir, I can't really tell u why..I'm jus a lowly sales man...

Posted by: CellOne508

Quote:

Originally Posted by lili96ilil

Man, do me a favor and never sign another contract with AT&T, please purchase your phone outright if it pleases you, but please never post a silly rant like this again, I will never be able to recoop the two minutes it took to read this babble!

Cellone508

Posted by: lili96ilil

Quote:

Originally Posted by CellOne508

Very worthwhile response. Thank you.

You find deception, lying, and shadiness silly. I find it disturbing and dishonest.

If more of the general population had a clue that Cingular charges you $18 for doing your own upgrading, they'd find it disturbing also.

Rather than tell me how silly I am and how I wasted two minutes of your life, why not debate some of the main points I tried to make. It looks like your post was the "silly" one.

Next time you go to the dealership to get your car repaired, would you think it was silly if they charged you $20 doing something they didn't do, and was not able to explain what the charge was for? I wouldn't

Posted by: classylady78

Quote:

Originally Posted by lili96ilil

This is a forum for employees of AT&T (we aren't Cingular anymore).

If you don't like the upgrade fee, buy your phone at full price. Or better yet, go to a different provider. And I guarantee you will find something else to complain about there.

Posted by: classylady78

I have been told that the $18 upgrade fee is just something we charge to make money. We subsidize the phones and take $18 back as a fee.

Since our profits do go into making network upgrades, we can honestly say that is what the money is going to...and that was my official answer from my trainer.

Since we subsidize the phones and take a loss on those, the $18 is justifiable. And if someone doesn't like it, they can buy their phone for $150 more.

Posted by: oneaznriceboi

Quote:

Originally Posted by classylady78

I have been told that the $18 upgrade fee is just something we charge to make money. We subsidize the phones and take $18 back as a fee.

Since our profits do go into making network upgrades, we can honestly say that is what the money is going to...and that was my official answer from my trainer.

Since we subsidize the phones and take a loss on those, the $18 is justifiable. And if someone doesn't like it, they can buy their phone for $150 more.

Then why not tack the $18 onto the price of the phone so people won't grumble and moan when you go over it on the contract

. We all know its a fee people will pay just because. I know people can get it waived, and I have been able to get it waived before, you just go to go through the ranks and effort to and actually be a good paying customer.

Posted by: classylady78

Quote:

Originally Posted by oneaznriceboi

Then why not tack the $18 onto the price of the phone so people won't grumble and moan when you go over it on the contract

I go over the upgrade fee at the beginning of the sale everytime. I think they grumble at the end because it is a surprise to them.

Posted by: lili96ilil

Quote:

Originally Posted by classylady78

Quote:

Originally Posted by classylady78

Finally, the first person to admit it. The "upgrade fee", has nothing to do with upgrading. It has to do with making money. Sneaky suspicion I had all along.

If you read anything I typed, you will see that I don't have a problem with the actual fee. What I do have a problem with is 1) Cingular lying about what the fee is for (which is really comical at this point to anyone who knows how to swap a SIM card), and 2) the way it is implemented, such to give the customer the illusion they are getting the phone at a much cheaper price.

I do understand that cell phone companies take a hit on phones, and trying to recoup that money is perfectly justifiable. What isn't justified is what I mentioned above, which I'm assuming I don't need to repeat for the 6th time.

Label me anything you want, but if you had to deal with a company who used tactics to deceive you about the cost of their products, and then blatantly lied to you about it, you'd have something to say also... I'd hope. As stated before, if a greater number of Cingular's customer base actually realized they were being lied to, there would be more of an uproar. People who spot shenanigans like this and make noise about it are the people who cause change. You should thank complainers like me; with out us, a classy lady such as yourself would still not be allowed to vote.

Posted by: ivwshane

Make all the noise you want but do it in the proper forum.

Posted by: cingtd

Quote:

Originally Posted by lili96ilil

The "upgrade fee", has nothing to do with upgrading. It has to do with making money. Sneaky suspicion I had all along.

Nothing personal, but it is every corporation's ultimate goal to make money, unless they happen to be a charity. Nothing new there. To be honest with you, I can't offer any other excuse. I can assure you that as an employee I could lose my job if I agreed to waive every upgrade/activation fee that came my way.

Posted by: lili96ilil

Quote:

Originally Posted by cingtd

I'm not sure why this point is so hard to get across. No one is arguing what you just said; that is obvious. The point is, don't deceive and lie. Don't call it an upgrade charge, since it is not an upgrade charge. Add $18 on to the price of the phone, so customers know what the phone cost right away, without hoping a salesperson informs them, or having to read fine print to get the "real cost". That is ALL I'm saying.

Posted by: ivwshane

Quote:

Originally Posted by lili96ilil

What you are saying is that you want us to not follow company policy. What we are saying is that it is company policy and all we are doing is our job (which includes informing the customer of the fee).

If you want to pay us our salaries then I'm sure we would be happy say what ever you want. Until then your information and insight is pointless.

Posted by: lili96ilil

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivwshane

Sigh... I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're not very old.

When I say, "don't call it an upgrade charge..." in the post you are quoting, I'm not referring to you, bottom of the totem pole. I'm referring to Cingular as a company; the twisted policy you speak of being changed to reflect the truth, and not deceive customers. I'm not referring to one individual that works at a local store somehow having the authority and ability to make these changes.

However, assuming you're a sales guy at a store, this is the action I'd expect:

Customer: "What's the upgrade charge for anyway? Don't I just have to swap my SIM card? Seems kind of insulting that you are charging me an upgrade fee when there is no upgrading being done."

You: "You know, that's a good point. Unfortunately, there's not much I can do about it, but I will relay your comments about this to my manager and maybe he can go through the proper channels."

If I would've gotten an honest response like that, I may have purchased from Cingular and ensured them more money by signing again.

Posted by: zonderF

So what if we do add the $18 to the price of the phone? Then we will have a hundred threads (in the right forums of course) about how it's an outrage that "Cingular" charges so much more for their phones than everybody else.

Posted by: JP Whoregan

If $18 is a dealbreaker, they don't need to be getting an upgrade. Period.

I'm not rich or anything, but I can dig $18 in change out of my couch. If they don't wanna pay the upgrade fee, then fine.

Posted by: JP Whoregan

Quote:

Originally Posted by lili96ilil

Classlady, placing the label of "chronic complainer" on me is a poor attempt to invalidate the points I have tried to make, and the questions I have asked. If it came to putting money where your mouth is, you would quickly recant your statement, since you have no way of knowing this better than you know my shoe size. I have always praised Cingular for everything expect this one matter.

Thank you for pointing out I am able to circumvent the upgrade fee by purchasing a phone at full price. As I already stated, this is what I do, and will continue to do. It's the principle.

ATT, Cingular, same thing. Semantics. Your point? Almost as worthless as a post as the one from above, but lets move on to your next which, ironically, is one of the best, and probably the most honest.

Finally, the first person to admit it. The "upgrade fee", has nothing to do with upgrading. It has to do with making money. Sneaky suspicion I had all along.

If you read anything I typed, you will see that I don't have a problem with the actual fee. What I do have a problem with is 1) Cingular lying about what the fee is for (which is really comical at this point to anyone who knows how to swap a SIM card), and 2) the way it is implemented, such to give the customer the illusion they are getting the phone at a much cheaper price.

I do understand that cell phone companies take a hit on phones, and trying to recoup that money is perfectly justifiable. What isn't justified is what I mentioned above, which I'm assuming I don't need to repeat for the 6th time.

Label me anything you want, but if you had to deal with a company who used tactics to deceive you about the cost of their products, and then blatantly lied to you about it, you'd have something to say also... I'd hope. As stated before, if a greater number of Cingular's customer base actually realized they were being lied to, there would be more of an uproar. People who spot shenanigans like this and make noise about it are the people who cause change. You should thank complainers like me; with out us, a classy lady such as yourself would still not be allowed to vote.

Dude, this is an employee forum. With all due respect to a nice customer like yourself, get the hell out. You're in here to complain to us about a company policy that nobody here can do anything about. If you feel like you are being lied to, then call the BBB, your state's attorney's office, or at least switch carriers. This thread was initiated by an employee for other employees concerning a work situation.

Posted by: CaptShadow

To avoid being banned from this forum I suggest all non-agent/employees read the sticky at the top of this subforum before participating in threads here.

http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=828735

Posted by: Wrangler3383

If the EMPLOYEES/AGENTS would like to open a similar thread to continue this discussion, feel free.