vB Easy Archive - The 8700g: One cheap POS

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The 8700g: One cheap POS
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Posted by: Chinasaur

In a moment of weakness, I purchased an 8700g from Fry's last week.

Gack...a mistake and it's going back.

1. Keyboard - Although the demo unit was out and I typed on it..I figured the keys would be a bit less cheap than on the demo unit as all demo units are cheap POS. Wrong. The demo unit is exactly the same as the real McCoy. Keyboard slides/moves around and keys are NOT at same height across keys. CHEAP

2. Battery door - After 24 hours, the battery door is sliding around on my fingers making it hard to type. Again, I had read reviews of this crud but expected later builds to be better. Wrong. Battery door now has half a biz card behind it to keep it tight. CHEAP.

3. Keyboard - key closeness - What insane person in Waterloo designed this POS? Keys are Treo close and that's a bug..not a feature. If you are an adult male who likes to type fast and did so on a 7290, chances are you WON'T like this keyboard.

4. Case - Feels cheap. Way too slick for own good. Needs texture like the 7290 had. Case 'creaks' when used and that does NOT engender confidence in unit. CHEAP.

On the other hand - Screen is gorgeous, EDGE is nice and fast. CPU makes the BB fly!!!! VERY VERY nice after coming from the 7290. If you can overlook the cheap build, keyboard and battery door issue (and like BB software and alol that that entails), then you won't be sad with this device.

I post this just so maybe someone else who reads reviews won't believe that the cheap factor is gone from the 8700g. It's still there.

I have an e61 on way so I'm going to return this piece 'o garbage and go back to Nokia where I belong.

Word to the wise - Make sure you can return this unit "IF" you buy it. Because I can almost assure you that you will want to return it.

YMMV.

Cheers.

Posted by: beansy72

Do users who have the 8700c from Cingular feel the same way? I take it they are the same device.

Posted by: painpour

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chinasaur

In a moment of weakness, I purchased an 8700g from Fry's last week.

Gack...a mistake and it's going back.

1. Keyboard - Although the demo unit was out and I typed on it..I figured the keys would be a bit less cheap than on the demo unit as all demo units are cheap POS. Wrong. The demo unit is exactly the same as the real McCoy. Keyboard slides/moves around and keys are NOT at same height across keys. CHEAP

2. Battery door - After 24 hours, the battery door is sliding around on my fingers making it hard to type. Again, I had read reviews of this crud but expected later builds to be better. Wrong. Battery door now has half a biz card behind it to keep it tight. CHEAP.

3. Keyboard - key closeness - What insane person in Waterloo designed this POS? Keys are Treo close and that's a bug..not a feature. If you are an adult male who likes to type fast and did so on a 7290, chances are you WON'T like this keyboard.

4. Case - Feels cheap. Way too slick for own good. Needs texture like the 7290 had. Case 'creaks' when used and that does NOT engender confidence in unit. CHEAP.

On the other hand - Screen is gorgeous, EDGE is nice and fast. CPU makes the BB fly!!!! VERY VERY nice after coming from the 7290. If you can overlook the cheap build, keyboard and battery door issue (and like BB software and alol that that entails), then you won't be sad with this device.

I post this just so maybe someone else who reads reviews won't believe that the cheap factor is gone from the 8700g. It's still there.

I have an e61 on way so I'm going to return this piece 'o garbage and go back to Nokia where I belong.

Word to the wise - Make sure you can return this unit "IF" you buy it. Because I can almost assure you that you will want to return it.

YMMV.

Cheers.

Not sure whats going on with your battery door. Sounds like your Blackberry is defective. I don't have any issue with my door and if you type with your fingertips its very accurate.

Posted by: vibribbon

Another odd detail is the keyboard issue - sounds refurbished or defective. My 8700r keyboard has precisely level and firmly sprung keys. They are nearly identical in feel to my Treo 650, only with flatter surfaces. I have typed novels worth of words on my 600 and 650 and the 8700r keyboard is simply a more optimal design.

My battery door has under a millimeter of clear vertical play in its slot.

Posted by: seann

Take it back and swap it out.

Posted by: GregGebhardt

What you are just finding out is what I reported here when the first 8700s for Cingular came out. Going from the 7520 made the 8700 feel like a toy. No where near as robust in build as the older Blackberrys. The soft plastic screen on the 8700 and 7100 series will for sure keep companies that make Displex doing well.

What was worst is mine filled up with dust behind the screen. Two of my friends did the same and they even got the new improved models and still got dust behind their screen. I look at their handheld after 6 months use and they look like they have been used for years.

Give me the screen and electronics of the 8700 in my 7520 case and I will show you a phone to kill for.

Posted by: RUF993Turbo

I do agree with you on a few things. The battery door is very cheaply made, they needed something that is less flimsy. The keys on my keyboard does shift as well, I will check out another one at tmobile Thurs and see if its just a few or if its all of them.

Posted by: mas90guru

I just replaced an 8700C with another and neither had the sliding keyboard problem. Both do seem a bit cheaper in qualty. I don't hang on to them for more than a year so scratches and scuffs don't bother me. My most recent 8700 has the sliding battery door problem but no issue with keys (someone else was asking about sliding keys but can't remember if it was you).

Posted by: Chinasaur

I agree with Greg. If I could have my 7290 case/keyboard, with the 8700 screen and electronics....that would be a great phone. Except that as phones, Blackberries make great PDA's

Posted by: Xeraux

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chinasaur

I have an e61 on way so I'm going to return this piece 'o garbage and go back to Nokia where I belong.

Just a word of warning... The E61's Blackberry Connect doesn't work anywhere near as well as a full on Blackberry. And that's coming from someone who LOVES his S60 Nokia N90. The E61 will be a great smartphone, but for wireless sync'ing, integration, and multiple account e-mail, push or otherwise, nothing beats a Blackberry.

Posted by: Chinasaur

Xeraux,

Thanks for heads up, but I never considered the BB Connect option. If I find I can't live without push mail, I'll go Seven or somebody else. For now, a 15 minute poll interval is fine with me.

Luck.

Posted by: El Chino

Nothing beats the old 72xx series

Posted by: AONEHOBO

Quote:

Originally Posted by painpour

Not sure whats going on with your battery door. Sounds like your Blackberry is defective. I don't have any issue with my door and if you type with your fingertips its very accurate.

It is not defective it is a common problem most people wind up putting a piece of folded business card inside to prevent the slide. It is a know issue. I agree with his whole assesment of the unit, other than EDGE and the nice screen it is a cheap POS, and by the way the EVDO in my Verizo7250 is faster than the EDGE on the 8700. I have tested both side by side, not to say anything of the construction factor of the 7250. If I had dropped the 8700 even once I would have a paper weight, my 7250 0n the othr hand is rock solid. Recessed screen to help protect it as well.

Posted by: jase88

Some of the earlier 7200's (7280, 7290, etc) had the same issue with the battery door. I too used the business card trick to tighten things up. Its regretable that RIM hasn't resolved such long-standing design issues; and changed positive design features such as the recessed screen.

The 8700 series is lighter, and I believe this contributes to the perception that its somehow cheaper.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AONEHOBO

Posted by: DukeN

Agreed to all points as to what the OP said. Forgot to mention the dust issue underneath the screen though.

That being said, I'll take it over the 72xx becuase of the screen, ringers and response time anyday.

Posted by: flyingfortress

Try the 9300! BB Connect.

Posted by: phillyslickster

Chinasaur and Ruff, I'm glad that I haven't had any of the issues that you had with your 8700g. I use my 8700g a lot being that I use it a lot at work, but I also use it outside of work as well. I average 50+ emails per day on my 8700g that I respond to or originate. With that, I or anyone needs their device to be dependable. Did you even go back to get another 8700g? Because that sounds like a worn out demo. Wheb I had Cingular service, I used the 8700c and I didn't get the dust under my screen either. I guess I have been lucky with my BB devices. Yet, it has been another story when it came to the Treo devices. *sigh*

Posted by: diegosalinas

I am trying out the 8700g this week and have to say I am more than likely returning it and sticking with my 7130c.

The keyboard issue was the same in all 6 (!!) 8700gs I have come across this month...it is a slight wiggle but it is annoying esp since the thing costs $$

On the plus, Tmo has the best priced BB data plan out there....$59.99 with 1000 mins and unlimited email/sms/data. Plus, the Yahoo Mail sync is awesome. EDGE is right on the mark, the processor is fast, the screen is large and gorgeous, and it is just plain reliable for emails.

I guess if you can deal with the plastic casing/wiggly keyboard, the other stuff makes up for it for sure.

Posted by: BLunted

the reason for the keyboard being loose and sliding left to right is a flaw in the molding of the 8700g housing. I purchased a new one from T-Mobile when they first came out and the keyboard was seated properly and tight. on the sticker behind the battery it said it was made in mexico. I ended up breaking my blackberry and had to send it in for a replacement i requested a new one since I bought a new one and had to add on a 2 year contract. I had about 5 different replacement phones sent to me all with a loose keyboard and they all said on the sticker made in canada(not sure if that has anything to do with it but possibly the 2 different assembly locations might be getting there parts from different distributors). I opened up a few of them and found out that the plastic peice that holds the keyboard down does not fit properly in the housing and pops halfway out which leads to the keyboard being loose. I figured out a way to file it down some and fixed the problem. I complained to T-Mobile many times throughout the whole month ordeal of having unit after unit sent out. I explained how the products they are selling are defective and I had proof but they really didn't care. I wish something could be done about this but I really don't know what else to do.

Posted by: Chinasaur

diegosalinas,

The plan you refer to, and all T-Mob BB plans actually, does NOT have unlmited SMS. Be careful. It's unlimited data/email only.

Posted by: Chinasaur

I dropped the Nokia e61 and went back to the 8700g - here's why...

I have longed for the e61. I dreamed about it. I had lewd thoughts about it. I wanted the e61 to bear my children. Alas, it was not to be. As hard as I tried, the e61 could not live up to my expectations (minimal as they were) and that crushed me. Time and again I found myself attempting to scroll or use the escape button in a situtation where I knew BB would have implemented a more elegant solution.

The BB 8700g is cheap AND the BB OS has some limitations. And I'm still not a fan of the scroll wheel and Alt+Escape button solution... That said, I went back to my 8700g (and very glad I am that I did) and here is why:

1. The balance of the device really bugged me. The e61 is long and thin and is top heavy. Holding it causes my hands to cramp and feel uncomfortable. The 8700 is more balanced and does not slip out of my hand like the e61. The 8700, in spite of being slick cheap plastic, does not feel uncomfortable in my hands as does the aluminum e61. The 8700 is not unbalanced. The e61 is tapered at the keyboard, the one place I need it to be thicker so I can grab it better.

2. Keyboard - Keys are not friendly. I need fast action keys and the e61 keys take a lot of pressure, applied directly down, to acivate. I can't adapt to this. By slowing down a bit I can reduce my error count on the 8700 to ~5-10%. On the e61 I am slowed down by the keyboard itself AND still make errors. It's larger, which I am a fan of, and yet I loathe this keyboard. I can fly on a Blackberry keyboard but the space key on the e61 gets in my way every time I use it.

3. Menu structure - While I have Nokia's for years, the S60 menu structure is unecessarily Byzantine in it's implementation. Way too many nested levels to accomplish something.

4. BB OS - Whatever I may think of the latest hardware, and the OS limitations, it can't be denied that the BB ROCKS! when it comes to sending messages of any kind. It just flat out kills re: speed, reliability, setup, ease of use when sending/receiving emails and SMS. I missed this. The e61 makes messaging a CHORE. Additionally, you can only poll an email account every 30 minutes on an e61!!! WTF? I don't "need" PUSH email but I do need to be able to PULL at least every 5-10 minutes. And yes, tried ProfiMail and it sucked.

5. Blackberry Connect on e61 - Used Asian install file. Took under 10 minutes to get it installed and it worked. Flawlessly. All the while however, the main thought I had ricocheting through my head was "why do this when you already have it on your BB without all this extra effort..dufus!!"

6. Screen - The e61 KILLS the BB 8700 on screen. NO comparison. Sadly, it's not enough

I will miss it. The BB screen is smaller and less sharp (8700 is 64K vs e61 16M) and I still choose it over the e61.

7. Media - I can't listen to music and work at same time. But, I wanted a device I could at least load up and have available. the e61 DOES play my iTunes ripped/encoded 224k AAC files, but the Media player shows them as Unknown artist, album etc. Arggh.. No go.

8. 802.11b/g - Won't connect into my 128k WEP enabled WiFi home network. I will try WPA as most people report success with WPA..but come one Nokia... not WEP?????

9. More media - RealPlayer works and then doesn't. Most of my .mpg's and .mpeg's dont play. That's total BS. I know what the manual says about what formats will/wont play..but BS. .mpg's are ubiquitous and should play! Flash won't stream? BS.

10. ShapeServices (bless their little german hearts), switched my BB license over to the Symbian platform..but guess what? I could use IM+ on my e61 with no problems. But let my GF insert HER SIM into my device and it wouldn't function. Not IM+'s fault..but another glitch that leaves you scratching your head, looking a the e61 and saying "WTF???"

11. I cry for the inability to use the .doc, .xls or .ppt features on the e61 but I still feel I come out ahead because at least I can use the device. The e61 seemed to go out of its' way to to throw up roadblocks to use.

12. The 8700 is a poor phone compared to a Nokia. Nobody will deny that. However, I still would choose to live with "what did you say????" vs a device that I hated to use

13. Losing storage - BB has no storage yet (MiniSD or otherwise). I do actually have work files I need to tote around with me (access lists, user profiles lists, test scripts, jokes, etc). I can make do with the BB Notes app but I really wanted the ability to use the e61 as mass storage. Again, I would walk away from it to get a device that just worked vs one that didn't.

14. CPU - The 8700g is much faster, to me, than the e61. The e61 is maybe 80Mhz slower, but due to the Symbian OS, feels much slower. Custom themes make it worse.

There are other reasons I've not even covered here why I moved back to the 8700. I can't remember all the things that got up my nose while using the e61 and made me long for the 8700. I just listed the ones I could remember.

All in all, if the BB 7290 had the features of the 8700, then I would be happy because I loved the 7290's heft and keyboard. YMMV.

:cheers:

Posted by: cd1000

I agree with most of the sentiments posted already. The 7290 had a better build, but the improvements with the screen and edge are very nice. Of course evdo is faster..no one claimed otherwise.
I find the phone on the 8700 to be identical to the 7290...too bad because that is mediocre. It also lacks in earpiece volume just like the 7290. Oh well there is no perfect smartphone out there so use what makes you happy until the next "great thing" comes out. I was a blackberry user for 2 years and then switched away to windows devices and palm with evdo and this and that. Using a blackberry again is like coming home to see and old friend. Too bad tmo doesn't have 3g.

Posted by: briareus

I kinda laughed at Chinasaur but I really appreicate his efforts and written out thoughts on why switching to the E61 didn't work out for him. The 8700c isn't a perfect device by any means, but it's th eone I've been happiest with so far...

Posted by: jbandes

Has to be better than the Cingular 8125 unit. I loved it when I first brought it home. Then the true test. Its SLOW freezes often and is not reliable. I was waiting for a very important call. It was frozen and the call went to voice mail. I lost the sale. I am a CIO and very technical so I applied all the hacks. The speed hack did work but made the phone even more unstable.

When i saw the 8700c Black Berry device access the Internet using EDGE I could not beleive it. That alone made me want one. This device is the king as far as I have seen so far.

James

Posted by: bjablonka

I come from the Imate Jamin/Pocket PC's with Windows Mobil 5.0. I loved the ability with Word/Excel/PPP etc, however, I needed push email I tried several different applications to get it to work, but none worked. I then decided to try the BB 870g and absolutely love the email applications. Miss things like voice recorder, but what the heck. Did not experience any of the problems which were mentioned here, like dust etc. The advantage BB has for me is that T-Mobile offers a $20/month international data plan with unlimited usage, that alone pays for the device itself. With my pocket PC I used to pay close to $200/month for international data roaming.

Posted by: king nothing

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chinasaur

diegosalinas,

The plan you refer to, and all T-Mob BB plans actually, does NOT have unlmited SMS. Be careful. It's unlimited data/email only.

Actually, that is NOT true. The BB minutes and mail plan, which diegosalinas referrs to, DOES have unlimited SMS. Both the minutes and mail plan and the minutes and mail ultra plan HAVE unlimited SMS. I had that plan for a while and enjoyed it.

T-Mobile Minutes and Mail Plan

Posted by: Institute

I talked to T-Mobile two nights ago and they said the 29.99 blackberry plan comes with 300 sms.

Posted by: king nothing

Quote:

Originally Posted by Institute

I talked to T-Mobile two nights ago and they said the 29.99 blackberry plan comes with 300 sms.

That is correct also. Many of the different plans come with various levels of SMS included.

Posted by: jbandes

I love the last post about windows mobile 5. I miss voice commander and te windows things. A host called 1and1 and they have direct push I was using a cingular 8125 but it was unreliable. Cant wait for my BB

Posted by: Zro

Quote:

Originally Posted by BLunted

the reason for the keyboard being loose and sliding left to right is a flaw in the molding of the 8700g housing. I purchased a new one from T-Mobile when they first came out and the keyboard was seated properly and tight. on the sticker behind the battery it said it was made in mexico. I ended up breaking my blackberry and had to send it in for a replacement i requested a new one since I bought a new one and had to add on a 2 year contract. I had about 5 different replacement phones sent to me all with a loose keyboard and they all said on the sticker made in canada(not sure if that has anything to do with it but possibly the 2 different assembly locations might be getting there parts from different distributors).

Sorry but I'm going to have to call BS on some of this. BlackBerry's are made in Canada (Waterloo, Ontario to be exact)...especially when they are first released. Older models may be outsourced (not exactly sure about that) but from what i've heard, most are still built in Canada then configured in another location local to where they'll be sold. This is evident from a couple of different interviews with Mike L from RIM where he talks about the benefits of having R&D and Manufacturing in the same location. Sure the 8700g may not exactly be brand new, but still made in Canada.

Not sure if it's just in the states (or maybe just the ones that you got) but I've never seen a "made in" sticker on a BlackBerry sold here in Canada.

You could have narrowed down the cause, but it's not due to where it's made. It would be stupid for a company to get parts from two different places just because they are located in different areas.

Zro

Posted by: shadowbox

Poor quality construction, like cracks and squeaks and rattles and dust behind a screen that scratches easily - sounds like a $5 toy - stops me from upgrading to the 8700 from my rock solid 7290. Last thing I need is an expensive device that's annoying to use and has parts falling off unless they are jammed or taped in place and that requires the user to keep a stack of screen protectors on hand. How did RIM manage to get so many simple things so wrong in an otherwise very powerful design? Even worse, the posts in here and elsewhere seem to indicate that months after first launching this thing RIM is still churning out 8700's with the exact same design and material flaws. Why don't they just fix it?

Posted by: phillyslickster

Well, I don't have any of those issues with mine and I've had it 3 months now.

Posted by: GregGebhardt

With the MODs permission, I can't stand it anymore.

The 7xxx series is FAR superior in build quality compared to the 8700 and 71xx series.

That is not a rumor.

Posted by: WebbyBabe

8700g rocks! I love mine. No problems here.

Posted by: mo-bile

No complaints whatsoever with my 8700c.

Posted by: naviwilliams

I've had my 8700g 4 days, and it's the best choice of a BlackBerry, I've ever made...

Posted by: Synncere

I love my 8700r but it won't hold up to the abuse my 7280 and 7290 took so I baby mine and make sure no harm comes to it.

Posted by: jbandes

Love my 8700c unit on Cingular best portable device I ever purchased. This one actually works

Posted by: iav122003

Love my 8700c.
My 7130c.
And my 7520.

WITH THAT BEING SAID...the only one capable of withstanding a terrorist attack is the 7520.