vB Easy Archive - Excellent article on RAM issues in new Nokia S60 phones.

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Excellent article on RAM issues in new Nokia S60 phones.
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Posted by: Monkey

Hello
Allaboutsymbian.com has just posted a short article about the low RAM issues with the new Nokia S60 3rd edition devices. Read it here:
http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/feat...ng_over_RAM.php
I really wish that people at Nokia would read it though as they are the only ones that can do anything about it.

Posted by: mark mackarus

Great article! Thanks for the link.

Posted by: Dr Tran

Symbian was supposed to be a platform designed around low amounts of RAM.

Many software developers ignore that and make their programs use too much RAM.

Posted by: JonInTheHouse

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Tran

Symbian was supposed to be a platform designed around low amounts of RAM.

Many software developers ignore that and make their programs use too much RAM.

The Nokia web-browser seems to be one of the worst offenders.

Posted by: fantasy8

i highly doubt nokia will listen to wat 1 man says. plus, for them to add that 40mb of ram...will probabaly increase the price by alot...

Posted by: Monkey

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Tran

Symbian was supposed to be a platform designed around low amounts of RAM.

Many software developers ignore that and make their programs use too much RAM.

That might have been the original precept of Symbian but it hasn't been true since the days of Nokia 3650 as the article's author points out. And JonInTheHouse is absolutely right, the new Nokia web browser has got to be The Most Ram Hungry Series60 application currently available. It is very ironic that Nokia itself develops an app that needs more Ram resources than they install in their phones. I mean, would you buy a General Motors truck designed to carry 1 ton of cargo but with an engine that could barely move the truck if you actually put that much stuff on the truck - in effect that is what Nokia is asking its customers (namely us) to do here. Well, frankly I feel a bit cheated by this.

Posted by: fidorulz

Quote:

Originally Posted by fantasy8

i highly doubt nokia will listen to wat 1 man says. plus, for them to add that 40mb of ram...will probabaly increase the price by alot...

RAM dosent make the phone that much more expensive or big in size. The 6620 was the ram memory leader untill the n70 came out. Even the 668x and others where more expensive but lacked the ram

Posted by: JonnyBruha

All this talk makes me hungry for an N70 all over again.

Posted by: MapleLeafs

Phones dont have upgradeable ram like computers, yet they become more and more like pc's. nokia should use common sense and:
1. Put in upgradeable ram(unlikely)
or
2. Give more than enough ram to keep the phone useable for a couple of years.

when u buy a pc u always get the max ram, processing power, etc u can afford, even if the cheap model will be sufficient for todays needs. I thought doing the same when i bought my n80, but it cant even handle todays demands. its like buying a high-end pc and putting 128 megs of ram in it. Its just plain stupidity. Has anybody tried to change to swap the ram chip yet?...

Posted by: JonnyBruha

If these devices operate like Windows devices, I highly, HIGHLY doubt that would work. You can't just plug in a random piece of hardware from a different device and expect the phone to recognize it and then successfully USE it without errors. That's like trying to install a wifi chip from an N80 into an N70.

HOWEVER, if the only differences in RAM technology was the memory itself and the units were otherwise EXACTLY THE SAME, we may be in business.

I plan on buying an N70. Perhaps I will dabble with some FCC documents of the inside of the N70 and E70 and see what I can or can not do. (Probably kill two high-end phones, :lol)

Posted by: JonInTheHouse

Heck, how about just letting us use some our secure digital card as swap space? Apparently an unknown concept in Symbian land...

Posted by: friedbrains

if you have read the article above, then better read this one that tell you how to fully maximise your RAM for multi-tasking, again from AAS

WORK THAT RAM

Posted by: JonnyBruha

After reading these articles and the article about how to maximize your E70, I checked a couple things on my phone. According to SysExplorer, the E70 has 45mb of RAM on the frive, but only 12 or so available with only the active standby running. Maybe it's not that Nokia shorted the devices, but that they're really just not using the space effectively.

I remember reading tips on how to free up RAM on my old 6630 like the Fax Modem and other processes that are never used and it would free up a couple megs. Shouldn't something like that be an option on these devices too?

Posted by: Perry

I did not have any RAM troubles with my P910a - of course there is the SMan utility that 'flushes' running programs out of memory (user configurable).

Maybe we need a similar app for S60.

Posted by: razamataz

For everybody that is having the ram issues I would suggest you take a closer look at the E61, Im pretty sure it is the current leader of all the E and N series of phones (except for the N70) I have about 22meg at the standby screen after boot up. And while the N70 still has More, im pretty sure 22 is plenty for 99% of you all out there.

Posted by: razamataz

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnyBruha

After reading these articles and the article about how to maximize your E70, I checked a couple things on my phone. According to SysExplorer, the E70 has 45mb of RAM on the frive, but only 12 or so available with only the active standby running. Maybe it's not that Nokia shorted the devices, but that they're really just not using the space effectively.

I remember reading tips on how to free up RAM on my old 6630 like the Fax Modem and other processes that are never used and it would free up a couple megs. Shouldn't something like that be an option on these devices too?

I think it was on APOC'S website (symbian-freak.com) Though I cant find it. But yeah, Using taskman or something equivelent you could shut down all the crap you didnt need and free up a load of free space. Maybe someone should ask APOC to see if he still has the link somewhere, and maybe a list of stuff you can shut down.

Posted by: JonnyBruha

I don't believe there is software that exists that would close those processes. Taskman doesn't even close them.

Posted by: fidorulz

Quote:

Originally Posted by razamataz

Here is what I found but the applactions required may not be out there yet for 3rd edition unless taskman can do the job

http://www.symbian-freak.com/quides/freeupmem.htm

Posted by: razamataz

Ill try it out and post my findings.....

Posted by: razamataz

Damn!!! No luck

man, we really need some good apps like app man, that be a huge app right now. That and celltrack or fieldtest

Posted by: neoufo51

Does Opera Mobile for S60 use less RAM than the Builtin web browser?

Posted by: neoufo51

It seems that it does use less RAM but is not as good as the Safari Based Nokia Browser.

Posted by: bikemanj7

So the N73 has Ram issues?

Posted by: Box215

yes, it does

Posted by: Dogmann

Hi all,
I discovered a little trick that i occasionally use on my N93 i assume it would work on other S60 3rd edition phones also. I have my last short cut on active standby set up for the memory card, so within 4 clicks i can select memory card, options, remove memory card. This shuts all running apps to free up all the ram and no you don't actually have to remove the memory card either.

It does appear we have moved into a new era with the latest incarnations of Symbian and it is no longer the Ram efficient OS it used to be. This could IMO be partially due to higher res screens and increased processor speeds plus much more complex programs but what ever it is we have to learn to live with it. It appears to me that manufacturers when testing their equipment don't seem to run as many apps or push their devices as hard as some of us consumers, maybe they only ever run single apps?
As has been mentioned by many others just why the didn't increase the amount of Ram in the build is very odd to say the least as i can't see the cost of Ram pushing Costs and prices up that much. To be honest i have not suffered any problems with freezes or crashes or any low memory messages but then i haven't loaded tons of 3rd party apps either and i do think this makes a huge difference.

Marc

Posted by: JonnyBruha

I suppose that's a good idea to quickly shut off all the applications that are running, but you may as well put TaskMan as the last icon and use that to kill the applications too. It may be more button presses, but at the very least, you're not risking losing all the information on your memory card.

Posted by: Dogmann

Hi JonnyBruha,
Except for one thing Best Taskman for S60 3rd Edition is reduced in functionality and can't perform what you suggest. Which is why i made the suggestion and didn't bother buying Taskman and removed it from my phone.

Marc

Posted by: JonnyBruha

What are you talking about? You want to kill all the applications running in the background, right? That's exactly what TaskMan does. Furthermore, I checked how much RAM was available when I did it with either method using the same program and they both came up the same.

Posted by: pfreitas

Quote:

Originally Posted by MapleLeafs

Phones dont have upgradeable ram like computers

Pocket PC phones do....I upgraded my imate jam to 128mbram up from 64. My old siemens sx66 was capped at 128 so it wasnt upgradeable beyond that.....sure would be nice if some smUrt people out there could figure out how to upgrade the ram on our S60s

Posted by: friedbrains

Quote:

Originally Posted by greentooth

sure, once you find a compatible flash ram chip with the same capability and pin assignment with a higher capacity... then, just desolder the old one and put the new one...

BTW, to the one who posted above, a simpler way to click on the "remove memory card" is to press on the "ON/OFF" button and click UP (its in the bottom of the list)

Posted by: sir-gee

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monkey

Hello
Allaboutsymbian.com has just posted a short article about the low RAM issues with the new Nokia S60 3rd edition devices. Read it here:
http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/feat...ng_over_RAM.php
I really wish that people at Nokia would read it though as they are the only ones that can do anything about it.

oi nokia 73 new firmware is out on the nokia website so go on www.nokia.com and u can download it

Posted by: pfreitas

Quote:

Originally Posted by friedbrains

I didnt do the upgrade

I paid for it!!

Posted by: Dogmann

Hi all,
I accept that you can achieve the same by using the one /off switch except i have a N93 and if opened in flip mode its not easy to get to that switch. Also i now use Handy Taskman that does indeed now offer the ability to close or kill apps. but as i have said it is no longer possible to run as many apps as we want without running out of Ram so IMO things have changed and whether we will ever see this resolved in newer phones is I'm afraid a case of wait and see. We can but hope but it is not just Nokia's Symbian phones it does appear to be effecting all the new Symbian phones and in reality the SE phones are far worse off than the Nokia phones IMHO.

Marc

Posted by: Jules_N93

Quote:

Originally Posted by razamataz

For everybody that is having the ram issues I would suggest you take a closer look at the E61, Im pretty sure it is the current leader of all the E and N series of phones (except for the N70) I have about 22meg at the standby screen after boot up. And while the N70 still has More, im pretty sure 22 is plenty for 99% of you all out there.

The N93 has 23mb after booting (with fw 20.0.058) =)

What still amazes me is that there is no way to redistribute ram, from the C:-drive to the D:-drive. I have 45mb of unused ram, it would sure help if i could push 40 of those to the D:-drive...

Posted by: Dogmann

@Jules N93,
That 40mb's of memory you have your eyes on is storage memory not Ram, all memory is not equal or the same you can't just swap them.

Marc

Posted by: Jules_N93

Are you sure? I thought C: and D: were on the same chip..

Posted by: pfreitas

N73 vs N80 ram availability after boot?...anyone?

Posted by: pfreitas

Quote:

Originally Posted by greentooth

N73 vs N80 ram availability after boot?...anyone?

lol....both phones bought and sold and still no response although i answered my own question.

Posted by: angel_wing0

Quote:

Originally Posted by AteFifty

N73 vs N80 ram availability after boot?...anyone?

i'll tell u once fexplorer becomes avaliable

Posted by: pfreitas

Quote:

Originally Posted by angel_wing0

i'll tell u once fexplorer becomes avaliable

I downloaded the .sis but have been too lazy to fill out the certificate....and I've heard that even after that the .sis wasnt working. I cant wait though!

Posted by: angel_wing0

Quote:

Originally Posted by AteFifty

I downloaded the .sis but have been too lazy to fill out the certificate....and I've heard that even after that the .sis wasnt working. I cant wait though!

yeah cuz its for s60v2 not s60v3...

Posted by: pfreitas

Quote:

Originally Posted by angel_wing0

yeah cuz its for s60v2 not s60v3...

I thought the beta was an unsigned v3?

Posted by: angel_wing0

Quote:

Originally Posted by AteFifty

I thought the beta was an unsigned v3?

no it turned out to be s60v2...else u will be seeing fexplorer beta reviews left right up and down

Posted by: pfreitas

Quote:

Originally Posted by angel_wing0

no it turned out to be s60v2...else u will be seeing fexplorer beta reviews left right up and down

well that certainly makes sense.....fortunately for me it was preinstalled on my n850i

Posted by: angel_wing0

Quote:

Originally Posted by AteFifty

well that certainly makes sense.....fortunately for me it was preinstalled on my n850i

where are the pics now there? me want see!

Posted by: pfreitas

Quote:

Originally Posted by angel_wing0

where are the pics now there? me want see!

Direct from Finland!!!.....notice the retro fitting the N850i uses!

Posted by: JonnyBruha

For those interested, my N73 reports that there is 45mb of RAM, and it boots with anywhere from 17-20mb of that available. And yes, I know the difference between RAM and internal memory. It just so happens that the N73 has same amount of both. I imagine the other 25mb of it are wrapped up in making the phone work properly, plus other useless things like the fax server and what not. (you used to be able to turn those off on v2 with certain apps)

Posted by: romeo26

man...on one of my post (forgot what thread) i had a link which reviewed the n95, and i remember the n95 having only 40 mb of ram and 18 left after turning on the phone. is this too little ammount of ram?

Posted by: pfreitas

Quote:

Originally Posted by romeo26

man...on one of my post (forgot what thread) i had a link which reviewed the n95, and i remember the n95 having only 40 mb of ram and 18 left after turning on the phone. is this too little ammount of ram?

Its going to have something more along the lines of 64mbs of Ram so I would say that's too low! I was told the Ram should be comparable to the E61.

Posted by: iamstupid

great artilce thanks for sharing

Posted by: Monkey

Quote:

Originally Posted by AteFifty

Its going to have something more along the lines of 64mbs of Ram so I would say that's too low! I was told the Ram should be comparable to the E61.

The info that N95 is supposed to have 64MB of Ram built-in has been circulating for some time now but all those who actually received pre-production models for testing and review reported so far that it only has 45MB with about 18 to 19 MB free after a clean boot. Now, the question is whether Nokia is going to actually install 64MB of Ram in production devices and it only has put 45MB in pre-production models (such a hardware difference between pre-production and production models seems very very unlikely), or whether the info about 64MB was simply an unfounded speculation fueled by wishful thinking. Time will tell....
Another big unknown at this point is the amount of Ram that they will put in the upcoming E90 Communicator.

Posted by: pfreitas

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monkey

Yeah..that's bad news! I posted that prior to Angel and the other bloggers receiving their proto models.

Posted by: friedbrains

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monkey

well, the E90 is reported to have 128MB of RAM, and at my-symbian, Michal, is saying there will be about 80MB of free RAM for the user upon boot up, compared to about 22MB of RAM on the E61 that is free, and with E61 having trouble opening up a 2MB pdf file, i dont kno wif this 80MB will be enough... i am asking Michal, and so far he is simply saying it is enough without actually saying how big of a pdf file he has opened so far on his E90 proto...

Posted by: pfreitas

This is what the N95 should be reading....except for that processing speed which isnt the final speed on the E90 either. It will be a 330 upon release but look at that RAM. They start loading them up like this and it's one less thing we can ***** about!...and aside from enabling all of their future phones w/ 850mhz and maybe..just maybe US3G we can sit back and enjoy these things IMO.

Posted by: rainydays1981

The harware difference between E62 and E61 are as follows. The E61(and E60, E70) is 3g(doesn't work in us), duel chip processer. One for calls and one for apps. The app processer is ARM9 220 Mhz/64 MB SDRAM/128 NAND flash w/o XIP(uses ram to load apps. The E62 is 2g single chip ARM9 235 Mhz/ 32MB SDRAM/32 NOR+128 NAND flash w/ XIP(uses flash to run apps in place. The MB difference seems nice but I wonder if there is a reall difference in performance. Could some one who knows this stuff put it in english. Found it on the Nokia known issues technical information page if you want to hunt for the origional document.

Posted by: jimmi1977

I noticed that my Nokia E50 only has 12 mb of RAM free for apps, while E65 has something close to 20mb.

Do these phones have the same processor and amount of ram? Is there any way to kill unneeded apps on E50 so that more RAM is available to my apps?

Posted by: Pheonix SZ

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnyBruha

If these devices operate like Windows devices, I highly, HIGHLY doubt that would work. You can't just plug in a random piece of hardware from a different device and expect the phone to recognize it and then successfully USE it without errors. That's like trying to install a wifi chip from an N80 into an N70.

HOWEVER, if the only differences in RAM technology was the memory itself and the units were otherwise EXACTLY THE SAME, we may be in business.

I plan on buying an N70. Perhaps I will dabble with some FCC documents of the inside of the N70 and E70 and see what I can or can not do. (Probably kill two high-end phones, :lol)

Good luck, dude.
It would be nice to think that it were possible - without any tweaks necessary to the OS.

Posted by: freebird_9924

dont go for n70 also
after updating firmware much prb of hang
even i play songs then after quiting it hangs for 1min

Posted by: unrealii

Great...after reading this I am tempted to hold off on an nokia s60 device until one is released with an acceptable amount of free ram.

Thank you nokia!

Posted by: Ago Vino Verita

As I was mentioning to a few people before, this is one of the reasons why I ended jumping ship to a TyTN. On a clean boot I am running easily about 25megs of RAM on a 64meg unit. And this is while running three, albeit small apps in the background and the Today screen full of plug-ins, which would be on the same note as the Standby screen.

Nokia, what is going on? Don't keep us waiting. Throw a bone to us tech-heads.

Posted by: pfreitas

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ago Vino Verita

As I was mentioning to a few people before, this is one of the reasons why I ended jumping ship to a TyTN. On a clean boot I am running easily about 25megs of RAM on a 64meg unit. And this is while running three, albeit small apps in the background and the Today screen full of plug-ins, which would be on the same note as the Standby screen.

Nokia, what is going on? Don't keep us waiting. Throw a bone to us tech-heads.

I agree...if they're going to pound the "multimedia computer" into our heads they better realize that they're released some real "under powered" computers when they don't offer up the appropriate RAM. Fp1 phones have allowed us to see the light in regards to a lightning fast UI but they need to bolster up the RAM in ALL s60 devices, not just the E90.

..and throw a little more juice our way...we know you can do it....E61 family has it and you know the the N73 has it.....Take a look at the N95 sales...you know we'll spend the extra buck for something that's done right. (although the N95 isn't all there imo)

Posted by: AkshayGenius

N95 still suffers from a lot of RAM issues, how much more would it cost to put in a li'l more RAM anyway?

Posted by: v1ralIV

can anyone confirm if the n95 does or does not have 64mb RAM thats kinda sad if it doesn't, alot of smartphones today have 64

Posted by: pfreitas

Quote:

Originally Posted by v1ralIV

can anyone confirm if the n95 does or does not have 64mb RAM thats kinda sad if it doesn't, alot of smartphones today have 64

It has 20 available to the user. Those other smartphones that sport 64mb's have roughly the same amount at their disposal. You need to get them into triple digits to equate to a more user friendly phone imo. I'm drooling over the thought of 80 free mb's of RAM and 4gigs of storage for my E90!

Posted by: Evan5

I really wish that

Posted by: BlueSun

The fastest S60v3 phone is N76
It has 90MB RAM !!!

Posted by: pfreitas

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueSun

The fastest S60v3 phone is N76
It has 90MB RAM !!!

Sorry bro...E90 has 128 of which nearly 80 are available to the user upon boot. N76 has 40 available which isn't too shabby either and should be plenty for anything you desire.....that is of course until that tiny little battery dies on you...

edit:...and RAM doesn't necessarily determine how fast it's going to be. It's the amount of virtual memory available to you....of course the more the merrier but a fast processor is part of the equation.

Posted by: Alpha43

Quote:

Originally Posted by greenteeth

I have made a memory swap application before for linux phones in the past.. The application basically take memory from the memory card and created virtual ram with it.. I wish i knew how to port it for you guys.. Any developers for s60 here? we can work together to make it happen..

~Alpha~

Posted by: Huggy_Bear81

on the n95's at what point do you guys start to get low memory messages or a complete freeze up of the phone? like how many apps and which apps are u running?

Thanks

Posted by: Dr Tran

Music player + web will often cause memory error
Music player + maps will often cause memory error

Posted by: CingularWRX

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpha43

That would be great! where can we look for info on porting into S60? I'll help where I can...dont know too much about it but I'm a quick learner

Posted by: Alpha43

Quote:

Originally Posted by CingularWRX

That would be great! where can we look for info on porting into S60? I'll help where I can...dont know too much about it but I'm a quick learner

Thats where the nokia experts would need to help me. haha

We can make up to a 128mb memory swap. But usually 64mbs work the best.

I am very suprised that no other developer has ever made one for s60...

~Alpha~

Posted by: tetatdo

so there's pretty much no resolution on ram issues?

I should sell my e70 :shifty

Posted by: jimmi1977

My e50 got much better with the newer firmware: I can run 3 java apps at the same time instead of one. I am a happy camper now