vB Easy Archive - Smartphones w/touchscreens

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Smartphones w/touchscreens
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Posted by: miamicanes

Are there any currently (or soon-to-be) available WM5 smartphones that have:

* 320x240 or better resolution

* touchscreen suitable for handwriting recognition using block input

* hardkeys for phone keypad

* NO keyboard for letters. Especially not a Blackberry-like "in your face" keyboard that reduces you to trying to press tiny microscopic buttons to dial.

* A joystick suitable for arcade/action games. By definition, a 5-way navigator with outer d-pad and big separate button in the middle does not meet this requirement.

* EDGE (sadly, this is the requirement that kills the ASUS P525)

* removable memory (SD, mini-SD, micro-SD, etc)

* Bluetooth

I'm distinguishing "Smartphone" from "PDAphone" mainly by form factor. For better or worse, it looks like "PDAphones" are always going to be stuck with huge-yet-still-dysfunctional keyboards that, at best, might be tucked inside like the PPC-6700 (HTC Apache/Wizard).

Sigh. I cried when I saw that the ASUS P525 couldn't do EDGE. It's almost perfect, but I could never live with GPRS data rates. 150-224kbps is slow, but tolerable. 9-53k is human rights-violating cruel and unusual punishment.

Anyway, here's the p525:

Posted by: DereX888

keyboard on xda exec feels very comfy IMHO,
kb on VOQ is not comfy at all, its designed for thumb-typing IMHO
but ofcoz it all depends on the size of your fingers

anyways if you need touchscreen and large size screen - isn't that what distinguishes PocketPC from Smartphone in general?

Posted by: RonAnnArbor

You've posted a lot on this same question over the past two days...I don't think you are going to find exactly what you want right now. There are no touch-screen smartphones that don't have a keyboard. The HTC Wizard sounds closest to what you might want, but it is true, it is a small brick.

All of the smartphones currently available in the USA are generally listed here at
This link: https://www.microsoft.com/windowsmobile/5/default.mspx

In addition, you can find phones like the HTC Star Trek (Qtek 8500, iMAte Smart Flip, and eventually the CIngular 3125) available online and on eBay, imported from Europe for the most part. The Dopod versions are imported from Asia.

CIngular.com and t-mobile.com both break out smartphones and PDA phones so you should check there first if you are looking for EDGE compatible phones in the USA.

You will find that there are no Palm PDA phones that will meet your requirements. Pocket PC phones (which today have morphed into Windows Mobile 5.0 phones) are the current state of the art.

THe USA lags behind Europe in these phones.

Posted by: miamicanes

Quote:

Originally Posted by DereX888

anyways if you need touchscreen and large size screen - isn't that what distinguishes PocketPC from Smartphone in general?

In the view of Microsoft and American manufacturers, yeah. In the eyes of Asian manufacturers, not necessarily.

The problem with official PDA phones is that they either have Blackberry-like keyboards that are a royal pain to use for dialing (especially with one hand, since thumbs are too big to easily press a single button on one) or rely on soft keypads which aren't as bad as they intuitively seem at first (I owned a Samsung SPH-i300 for > 3 years), but can be a pain to use with auto-attendants ("Press 1 for English, Marque 'dos' para Espanol, ..."), and an absolute nightmare for entering long sequences like credit card numbers. There's a lot to be said for the ergonomics of a nice, big, beefy keypad with 0-9, *, #, a real joystick, two hardkeys below the screen, and a few more well-placed hardkeys.

The way I (and lots of Asian manufacturers) see it, a touchscreen adds almost nothing to the cost (especially for a device intended to sell for $500+), and vastly improves compatibility with non-Smartphone-certified software. IMHO, Microsoft's REAL motive for promoting Smartphones-sans-touchscreens has little to do with cost, and more to do with prodding software authors to try a little harder to create apps that are usable without a stylus. A noble goal, but the fact is, there's lots of legacy PPC software that could run perfectly well on Smartphones but for their dependence upon touchscreens.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonAnnArbor

You've posted a lot on this same question over the past two days...I don't think you are going to find exactly what you want right now.

Yeah, I guess I did get a little obsessed with my quest to find the perfect phone ;-) Actually, there ARE three phones that I'd buy in a heartbeat if they did EDGE... the GSPDA M68 (PalmOS 5.4), ASUS P525 (WM5), and the Trolltech Greenphone. It blows my mind how anyone could design a brand new phone to sell NOW that lacks EDGE.

I'm still leaning towards the 6700, but my enthusiasm for it went WAY down after discovering on Monday that at least one major PPC2002 game (Rayman) used the "Windows" and "OK" buttons for jumping and punching... making the game nearly impossible to play, with no apparent provision for remapping. I'm not in love with Rayman per se, but if its button-mapping choices reflect the norm for PocketPC games, it's a bad sign. I'm still trying to find out whether it's possible to remap the buttons in a way that would enable even a VirtualKey-oblivious app to be tricked into working.

Of course, there's always "Plan B" -- the Sony-Ericsson K790a. Not a PDA phone at all... but nevertheless, it has a strange appeal I can't quite explain. If it cost $250, ran on Sprint, and Sprint used R-UIM cards so I could go back and forth between it and a PDA phone, I'd have bought one without a second thought. But the fact that it's expensive, uninsurable, and would require a major lifestyle change (switching to T-Mobile) is a sobering drawback.

So... getting back to the original topic... are there any other manufacturers that aren't necessarily "big" players who make cool GSM phones with EDGE that make Smartphones with touchscreens? I did manage to find another interesting company -- OKWAP. But it's hard to tell much about them, because just about everything I've seen about their phones is in Chinese. But they look interesting, too... and apparently the HTC Blizzard is supposed to be another smartphone + touchscreen.

Posted by: Ishimaru

this is the smartphone forum, not the pocket pc forum.

Posted by: miamicanes

And this is about phones with Smartphone formfactor and handwriting input... in other words, the ones that don't neatly fit into either niche

... like the OKWAP K728... which is, in fact, running WM5 Smartphone Edition, slightly hacked by OKWAP to support the touchscreen and handwriting recognition (and basically transform them into de-facto PDA phones) without losing the one-handed navigability of WM5 Smartphone Edition.

Posted by: DereX888

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkJedi

this is the smartphone forum, not the pocket pc forum.

Since Windows Mobile 5 came out the difference is almost non-existant (at least in the OS) as most PPC software runs on "phone edition", and same goes for smartphone soft on PPC.
In short time we will have only 'smartphones' with or without touchscreen, since more and more people is getting 'smarter' and prefer 'all-in-one' devices instead of bunch of separate toys (PDA, cell, musicplayer, digital camera, ... )

Posted by: Ishimaru

uh, there is a HUGE difference between PPC and smartphone. there are NOT any smartphones with a touchscreen, MS didn't include support for that in the OS. And that one above is third party related.

Posted by: CeluGeek

Quote:

Originally Posted by miamicanes

In the view of Microsoft and American manufacturers, yeah. In the eyes of Asian manufacturers, not necessarily.

Since Microsoft creates the OS for these devices, their view carries a LOT of weight. Smartphones have no touchscreen, other than through some proprietary hardware requiring non-standard drivers. Most of the models you describe are simply Pocket PC Phones with a hardware phone keypad.

As for the QWERTY keypads, I have large hands and I can still dial with one hand and without looking on my iPAQ 6515. There are a few Asian units that are interesting - I'd settle for a sliding QWERTY keypad if I could have a real phone keypad on the front - but these manufacturers have no interest of transcending beyond Asian markets so they are out of the question.

Posted by: DereX888

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkJedi

uh, there is a HUGE difference between PPC and smartphone. there are NOT any smartphones with a touchscreen, MS didn't include support for that in the OS. And that one above is third party related.

So youre saying i.e. Windows XP "Home Edition" is not really Windows XP, because it doesn't include few services found in WinXP "Professional" version, but available from third parties.

Posted by: CeluGeek

Quote:

Originally Posted by DereX888

So youre saying i.e. Windows XP "Home Edition" is not really Windows XP, because it doesn't include few services found in WinXP "Professional" version, but available from third parties.

It is not the same thing. Not all programs for Windows Mobile Smartphone run on a Pocket PC, and very few programs for Pocket PC run on the Smartphone. When you cut through all the marketing crap you find out that the Pocket PC and the Smartphone are still two different platforms. This is supposed to be over with the next version of Windows Mobile (Photon) but I wouldn't bet on Microsoft delivering then the same thing they promised for WM 5 and that they didn't deliver.

Posted by: Ishimaru

He is correct sir!

And that's not the difference between Home and Pro, lol.

Posted by: disturbedsaint

I am looking for the same kind of device, though not necesseraly with hardkeys.
Something like the SE P910(i) without the keyboard-lid attached running Windows Mobile.

Lenovo makes a phone just like this, the ET980, though it seems like it doesn't support anything beyond GPRS.
Specs can be found here:
http://www.lenovomobile.com/sj/pro_...3&dummy=6845998

And there's the QDA lite and QDA Icon, both not supporting hardkeys, but the Icon should support EDGE.
See for example: http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/smar...icon-183825.php

I haven't found any other phone with hardkeys besided the (cancelled) HTC Blizzard and the already mentioned OKWAP phone.

Posted by: CeluGeek

Quote:

Originally Posted by disturbedsaint

I am looking for the same kind of device, though not necesseraly with hardkeys.
Something like the SE P910(i) without the keyboard-lid attached running Windows Mobile.

Isn't this what a Pocket PC Phone is?

Posted by: central50

Quote:

Originally Posted by WM4me

Thats why I like the VOQ, it has the real keypad on the front, and they the QWERTY keys when you open it up.

I must say from a stand point of I use that keyboard a lot for text messages, ims and my calendar for business - it is a very big help and it is one of the biggest reasons I bought the phone as I did. I don't like pdas where you have to sit there and touch each letter. Then its like texting with a phone.

These keypads help a lot.

Posted by: disturbedsaint

Quote:

Originally Posted by WM4me

Isn't this what a Pocket PC Phone is?

No, a PocketPC Phone is bulky, a smartphone with (only) a touchscreen isn't

Posted by: LIVEFRMNYC

I think I found what your looking for ......CHECK LINK OUT.

Dallab DX8: ........SECOND PHONE ON PAGE. CLICK ME

Posted by: DereX888

that is nice phone indeed

Posted by: disturbedsaint

Found some more interesting phones, especially the other okwap (bar)model:
http://www.mobile-review.com/exhibi...models-en.shtml

Posted by: CeluGeek

Quote:

Originally Posted by LIVEFRMNYC

I think I found what your looking for ......CHECK LINK OUT.

Dallab DX8: ........SECOND PHONE ON PAGE. CLICK ME

Again, that's a Pocket PC Phone with a hardware phone keypad.

Posted by: DereX888

Quote:

Originally Posted by WM4me

Again, that's a Pocket PC Phone with a hardware phone keypad.

Chill out man, does it really make to you such big difference if the device you hold in your hand is called i.e. 'smartphone with touchscreen' or 'poketpc with phone'?

Posted by: LIVEFRMNYC

Quote:

Originally Posted by WM4me

Again, that's a Pocket PC Phone with a hardware phone keypad.

THIS IS WHAT THE MAKER OF THIS THREAD STATED .......

I'm distinguishing "Smartphone" from "PDAphone" mainly by form factor. For better or worse, it looks like "PDAphones" are always going to be stuck with huge-yet-still-dysfunctional keyboards that, at best, might be tucked inside like the PPC-6700 (HTC Apache/Wizard).

Sigh. I cried when I saw that the ASUS P525 couldn't do EDGE. It's almost perfect, but I could never live with GPRS data rates. 150-224kbps is slow, but tolerable. 9-53k is human rights-violating cruel and unusual punishment.

Now I'll be damned if phone in my link is not what he's looking for.

Posted by: miamicanes

Yep, that looks like it, spot on!

Posted by: CeluGeek

Quote:

Originally Posted by DereX888

Chill out man, does it really make to you such big difference if the device you hold in your hand is called i.e. 'smartphone with touchscreen' or 'poketpc with phone'?

Actually it does. The OP is looking for either a Smartphone with a touch screen or a Pocket PC Phone with a phone keypad, but as has been said many, many times Pocket PC's and Smartphones are not the same thing when it comes to the software you can run on the device so it does make a difference what device is recommended.

Posted by: miamicanes

Update... apparently, the Dallab DX-8 has a twin... the Axia A308:

Posted by: LIVEFRMNYC

Quote:

Originally Posted by miamicanes

Update... apparently, the Dallab DX-8 has a twin... the Axia A308:

Sweet, hopefully this Hybrid PDA/Smartphone catches on quickly.

Lets say a by 2008 in US.

Posted by: DereX888

Quote:

Originally Posted by WM4me

I think you don't see the technology trends - which tend to morph various devices into a single device.
Its obvious that very soon there will be no more 'smartphones' but all will be mostly PocketPCs with hardware keyboards and keypads, and some dumb-down el-cheapo PocketPC Phone Editions just without a keyboard.
Thats IMHO exactly what OP wants - a device phone-size that does all what smartphones & pocketpcs do, with a touchscreen and normal keypad

Most of us don't care is it a smartphone with touchscreen, or a pocketpc with hardware keypad, or what is it called.