Cingular raising PPU SMS pricing 1/21/07 - Waiving ETF?

[formercanuck]

Unfortunately for the consumer, any and all cellular companies will continue to sell products and services for as much as they can. Simply law of supply and demand. Unless demand starts dropping, prices will continue to rise as time goes on.

I agree... look at how cheap items such as VCR's, Diskettes became once DVD's and CD-R's came onto the market with reasonable prices. Even CRT Television's are becoming quite cheap now that LCD/Plasma/Projection TV's are mainstream.

[Opi]

Attention NYC area Cingular subscribers who are angered by the price increase and have been refused no ETF contract termination by Cingular.

I have been in contact with WABC Eyewitness News "7 On Your Side" and they are looking for others. Please contact them HERE

Done, Im going to see what I can do for Philly customers as well

[veriztd]

No ma'am I think you are wrong here. It is not supply and demand. But let us take a look at an example:

Hurricane is coming. Thousands want out. I have a gas station and 10,000 gallons, on the road out. You want gasoline and I have it. Demand far exceeds the 10,000 that I have. Therefore I will price it accordingly. $20/gallon thank you. That is called gouging. Will I get in trouble? Likely.

Back to text messaging: Let's see I have 450 + 5000 + unlimited M2M minutes. Let us just say I have a thousand. But in each of those one minute slices there can be sent easily 50 or so text messages. How many text will fit in my minutes allotment now?

There is no want of supply! The carrier would be better off encouraging usage rather than penalizing texting with an outrageous 15 cent charge.

What is lacking is common sense on high. Cingular has everyone from the cube farms to the leather offices up in a stir trying to make sure that the victims don't get what the contract says they should get: Out without an ETF. Instead of putting in a hike, they should have and should now announce a cut.

You are probably too young to remember but we used to have a 90% top "income" tax rate in the USA. President Reagan changed all that. Down to something like 20 or 25% top rate. Know what? The government revenue went up as a result of the tax cut! Cingular revenue would do the same if they would cut, not hike the cost of text messages.

tszefr for VP of Marketing!

You are confused. This is supply and demand because if customers are unwilling to pay the extra cost they have 3 choices: stop using text messages, get a text plan, or find another carrier who will suit their needs (assuming they are not in contract). I never suggested I agreed with the increase but don't whine that customer's don't have choices.

Here is a reality check for you: $.10/msg, 50 msg=$5.00, $.15/msg, 35 msg=$5.25 and finally Msg Starter 200=$4.99. I would be willing to bet that most folks complaining about the increase have some sort of messaging package so the increase will have no affect on them whatsoever.

Personally, while I also feel that it is unfare that the US Post Office and gas companies continue to raise the cost of their products/services there is nothing you or I can do to change that.

BTW: I was born before Nixon became President, don't assume you know me personally.

[awj223]

You are confused. This is supply and demand because if customers are unwilling to pay the extra cost they have 3 choices: stop using text messages, get a text plan, or find another carrier who will suit their needs (assuming they are not in contract). I never suggested I agreed with the increase but don't whine that customer's don't have choices.

No YOU are confused. The usual supply and demand rules that govern prices for most consumer goods do not apply because there is an almost unlimited supply when it comes to text messages. It's not truly unlimited or infinite; the limiting factor is Cingular's spectrum licenses, which limits network capacity. However, if Cingular can give away voice minutes for almost nothing (unlimited N&W and M2M), and since an SMS takes far fewer bytes (and hence, far less spectrum over time) than a voice call, the pricing is orders of magnitude higher than it should be. The "supply" is the amount of spectrum available, and these prices are way out of whack. Let's just say you can transmit 50 SMS messages in the same amount of spectrum usage over time as a one-minute call. Well let's see, even the most expensive voice minutes (overages) come to $0.45/minute, so SMS messages should be no more than a penny AT MOST. Texting also has the effect of keeping voice calls down, which frees up spectrum. So if you want to look at it from a supply and demand perspective, we're operating in the region where supply (spectrum) for SMS far exceeds demand, and prices should be falling like a rock.

[veriztd]

No YOU are confused. The usual supply and demand rules that govern prices for most consumer goods do not apply because there is an almost unlimited supply when it comes to text messages. It's not truly unlimited or infinite; the limiting factor is Cingular's spectrum licenses, which limits network capacity. However, if Cingular can give away voice minutes for almost nothing (unlimited N&W and M2M), and since an SMS takes far fewer bytes (and hence, far less spectrum over time) than a voice call, the pricing is orders of magnitude higher than it should be. The "supply" is the amount of spectrum available, and these prices are way out of whack. Let's just say you can transmit 50 SMS messages in the same amount of spectrum usage over time as a one-minute call. Well let's see, even the most expensive voice minutes (overages) come to $0.45/minute, so SMS messages should be no more than a penny AT MOST. Texting also has the effect of keeping voice calls down, which frees up spectrum. So if you want to look at it from a supply and demand perspective, we're operating in the region where supply (spectrum) for SMS far exceeds demand, and prices should be falling like a rock.

Don't even try comparing the cost of Voice minutes and text messages. Last time I checked, no cellular company is a charity that gives away services out of the kindness of the heart without some cost.

[awj223]

Don't even try comparing the cost of Voice minutes and text messages. Last time I checked, no cellular company is a charity that gives away services out of the kindness of the heart without some cost.

Okay, so why can I call all my friends on Cingular anytime, and why can I call anywhere in the US all weekend long, without paying extra? You're right, Cingular isn't a charity, they're a for profit business. You don't bring in revenue by giving away unlimited minutes.

So why is it okay to give away voice minutes on the cheap and gouge customers for SMS? Why don't I have unlimited M2M SMS, unlimited offpeak SMS, and rollover SMS? If voice minutes can be given away that for that cheap, SMS should be less than a penny each. Conversely, if an SMS takes $0.15 of spectrum and network equipment to deliver, voice minutes should be a lot more expensive.

That Cingular, as a for profit business, would charge as much as it can get for these services makes perfect sense. However, the discrepancy between the cost of voice minutes and SMS makes no sense. Either one should be a lot cheaper or the other should be a lot more expensive. This is especially true since increased use of the latter would result in decreased use of the former.

[CA]

Unfortunately for the consumer, any and all cellular companies will continue to sell products and services for as much as they can. Simply law of supply and demand. Unless demand starts dropping, prices will continue to rise as time goes on.

Correct you are(this time ) in the USA the cost is what someone is willing to pay...done deal!

The flaw in your argument is when prices go up alternatives(competition)appear.

Enter MuniWiFi! Can you say "maybe we should of thought", or maybe they did and said "the end my friend".

And he came to a door...and he looked inside
The Doors

[veriztd]

That Cingular, as a for profit business, would charge as much as it can get for these services makes perfect sense. However, the discrepancy between the cost of voice minutes and SMS makes no sense. Either one should be a lot cheaper or the other should be a lot more expensive. This is especially true since increased use of the latter would result in decreased use of the former.

And how much research have you done to support that statement. While I will not pretend to know the actual cost, I suspect you don't either. Don't make generalizations if you can't back it up.

[awj223]

And how much research have you done to support that statement. While I will not pretend to know the actual cost, I suspect you don't either. Don't make generalizations if you can't back it up.

I can HEAR the buzzing caused by the phone as it sends a text message, and it doesn't take too long. The other costs associated with SMS are on the receiving end - they must be stored somewhere if the recipient's phone is turned off or out of range. But oh wait, voicemail is that way too, and it takes a lot more space on servers to store audio than text. So why am I not billed for $0.15 for retrieving VMs, and even more for saving them rather than deleting them? Want something more objective? Data overages are $8 per MB or 0.8 cents per kilobyte. How many kB maximum in an SMS? At $0.15 per SMS, what is that rate per kB?

When things are off by this many orders of magnitude, it doesn't take research to figure it out.

[veriztd]

I can HEAR the buzzing caused by the phone as it sends a text message, and it doesn't take too long. The other costs associated with SMS are on the receiving end - they must be stored somewhere if the recipient's phone is turned off or out of range. But oh wait, voicemail is that way too, and it takes a lot more space on servers to store audio than text. So why am I not billed for $0.15 for retrieving VMs, and even more for saving them rather than deleting them? Want something more objective? Data overages are $8 per MB or 0.8 cents per kilobyte. How many kB maximum in an SMS? At $0.15 per SMS, what is that rate per kB?

When things are off by this many orders of magnitude, it doesn't take research to figure it out.

And yet, you still speculate on the actual cost.

[ivwshane]

Why does it matter how much it costs? Its not going to change anything. If you don't like the price go somewhere else. If enough people do this then I'm sure the price will be adjusted.

No matter what there is no use arguing over it.



///END OF THREAD!

[torifile]

You guys don't know how to debate. You had cingtd pinned against the wall with his ridiculous claim of this being a supply and demand issue and you let him shift the argument to the cost. Nice work.

[tszefr]

And yet, you still speculate on the actual cost.

No the overhead cost is not that relevant. Multiply out the number of bytes sent by the outrageous price charged and you are looking at something on the order of $1500 per megabyte. Compare that to Cingular asking price (a much smaller outrage) of $10.24/megabyte and you get to see just how grotesquely out of line is the pricing for SMS.

There has to be a price for it though. If text was free, the demand would go bonkers. The reference price back from AT&T and Cingular and others was a dime to send and free (of course) to receive. The price of talking minutes has dropped drastically. It is time the price of text also be cut. When it costs far far more to send a few words of text than to yack for a minute, something is very very wrong!

[Fire14]

Attention NYC area Cingular subscribers who are angered by the price increase and have been refused no ETF contract termination by Cingular.

I have been in contact with WABC Eyewitness News "7 On Your Side" and they are looking for others. Please contact them HERE

I contacted them, and feel they also need to go into the Blue customers & lack of decent SMS plans like the other carriers have.

[chnky18]

well I emailed all 4 major news stations in the DFW area and emailed the major newspaper here so hopefully someone will respond and want to put it on the news.