Cingular raising PPU SMS pricing 1/21/07 - Waiving ETF?

[Aurora]

Look how many replies this thread has gotten. Now if there were as many real people who actually were REALLY going to leave, then that would speak volumes. As usual, people are just all talk. and this is why carriers can do what they want and will!

If you want it to change, you must be willing to put yourself on the stand and make an example of yourself. Don't just talk about it, be about it. Too sad this country is all soft!

And I speak of every carriers subscribers!

JE

Average Joe doesn't have the monetary resources to fight a huge corporation like Cingular.

The arbitration clause is, however, there for those interested in really kickin' this up a notch.

[awj223]

Average Joe doesn't have the monetary resources to fight a huge corporation like Cingular.

The arbitration clause is, however, there for those interested in really kickin' this up a notch.

That's why IMO the arbitration clause is the best way to fight this. The average Joe may not have time or money to hire a lawyer to fight Cingular in the courts, but under the arbitration clause Cingular pays for all the costs as long as it isn't frivolous. They'll even reimburse you for the initial filing fee.

If just 2% or around 1,000,000 customers used it, they'd have to first receive (and respond to) that many arbitration notices. Postage alone would run over $300,000. If it takes employees an average $10 to generate the reply, now we're at $10.3M. Then if they refuse to settle and all those disputes go to arbitration, there's the filing fee which is over $100 per dispute. Now we're at least talking $110.3M. Don't you think they'd settle most of those by just grandfathering the rates? If all those disputes go to arbitration then even if Cingular wins, we'd be talking about a serious disruption in their cash flow.

[Jayden0606]

Please don't spread misinformation. The price of the early evenings and weekends went up by $2 recently and I got out of a contract; cellular service contracts are relatively "one-way," but when price increases are involved, generally the carriers agree to let you out if they increase prices.

When the price of the early evenings and weekends went up, I had to escalate my request to get out of a contract through four levels in the customer service hierarchy, but eventually reached someone who knew how to read and was logically able to conclude that the black and white words that both Cingular and I agreed when I signed up for service stated that, while Cingular does reserve the rights to raise prices, customers can be let out of their contract if they chose to upon Cingular making those changes.

Now, the specific wording is very important. The current contract states:



I'm not a lawyer, nor do I have to be to see that if you're SUBSCRIBED to any SERVICES and the price of those services increases, then you can get out of a contract.

However, since the price of incoming SMSs is increasing and that is not a service that you subscribe to, I would argue (and I bet Cingular would, too) that you can't get out of your contract. In fact, the reason you're paying for an incoming or outgoing SMS @ $.15/message is because of a LACK of a service subscription.

Just my $.02 worth.

The terms of service (i.e., the contract you signed with Cingular when you signed up), btw, can be found here.

HERE IS MORE PROOF


You may want to follow your own words about misinformation...


People can argue with my all day, but I can tell you by now, every rep knows not to cancel an account due to the increase. Be prepared for scripts to be read...


Sincerely,
Cingular Employee

[david7700]

It seems the success stories are only about 1% of all who have tried. The script reads...
"SMS is a feature"
but it's considered a Data SERVICE in Cingulars own words

"PPU is not part of your contract"
I just need to find the pricing in the contract, and that should be that

"PPU is an optional feature"
Well I sure wasn't given an option to recieve/send SMS, but NOW they try to get you to disable it, well I hope they are too late!

[TxTwin]

It seems the success stories are only about 1% of all who have tried. The script reads...
"SMS is a feature"
but it's considered a Data SERVICE in Cingulars own words

"PPU is not part of your contract"
I just need to find the pricing in the contract, and that should be that

"PPU is an optional feature"
Well I sure wasn't given an option to recieve/send SMS, but NOW they try to get you to disable it, well I hope they are too late!

Here is how I see it under the currrent circling of Cingular Wagons....

Based on Cingular's stance, I think the choices are down to two:
1- Call and have all but administrative texts blocked, and state you want it noted on the account that you will NOT consider a text plan based on this change without Free Incoming and that you would rather NOT text now or in the future. Any desire to "try" it out on a limited basis has been removed.
[Of course, this will not get you anything but a statement that they will just not even think much of...unless you were paying for some txt. Also, you will have to call back to CS and request that they read the note to be sure it was added to your account. You might also want to follow up with an emial inquiry to request confirmation of this so you are sure there is electronic communication of your statement.].

2 - Put your request in writing per the contract terms and wait for written denial of request. Get your rate plan brochure, and any other arguements stated in this thread together for for your intial request and for arbitration (don't provide EVERYTHING up front) and request arbitration. Make sure you are not too overly aggressive in that you could make it look like frivoulus request. If you are willing to take a 10c grandfathered option, you will fair better than just demanding out without ETF. They might consider that too frivolous if Cingular is willing to offer the 10c grandfather and you still demand out.

Good Luck. I don't think we will win on this, but you might get grandfathered at the old rate to avoid arbitration. I doubt you will be able to get out of contract. I suspect that an arbitrator would figure the grandfathering at 10c will be the only solution.

Then, at some point, Cingular may add free incoming, but you will have to remove that 10c grandfather and go with the current rate (15, 20 , 50?) to get the free incoming.

[veriztd]

If you are willing to take a 10c grandfathered option, you will fair better than just demanding out without ETF. They might consider that too frivolous if Cingular is willing to offer the 10c grandfather and you still demand out.

Only problem is that feature cannot be grandfathered, just like when 411 calls or insurance was increased. All accounts with that feature were billed the higher rate automatically when it took effect. Also keep in mind that brochures have a date stamp on the back and when a new brochure is produced it replaces the prior brochure. It would be the same if you had a brochure from 2005 that showed 411 calls @ $1.59 each and stating that is what was quoted in your contract.

[tszefr]

Only problem is that feature cannot be grandfathered...

Blasted thing does not need to be grandfathered. I have a contract. The contract works both ways, contrary to what some cingular people seem to think. All the prices I agreed to are right there on my Service Summary. The one that was generated for me and has my terms and conditions. My price per month with the various amounts of minutes, optional services, taxes and junk fees. They are all there. Also on my Service Summary is my cost for other things including what I will pay for 411 service and Text Messages 10 cents/message and even a note about the evil charge for incoming messages.

Those are the prices I agreed to. Then we have "IF WE INCREASE THE PRICE OF ANY OF THE SERVICES TO WHICH YOU SUBSCRIBE... WE WILL DISCLOSE THE CHARGE ... YOU MAY TERMINATE WITHOUT PAYING AN EARLY TERMINATION FEE..."

Seems very clear to me. My price is set per contract. Cingular has issued the notice by the "Terms of Service" book and therefore it is my RIGHT to pay no ETF! CS can/will do the right thing or I can and will be sending some certified mail!

Since when is text messaging not a service to which I subscribe? My statement proves it with the already outrageous charges. If I was not subscribed I would receive neither messages nor charges.

[TxTwin]

Only problem is that feature cannot be grandfathered, just like when 411 calls or insurance was increased. All accounts with that feature were billed the higher rate automatically when it took effect. Also keep in mind that brochures have a date stamp on the back and when a new brochure is produced it replaces the prior brochure. It would be the same if you had a brochure from 2005 that showed 411 calls @ $1.59 each and stating that is what was quoted in your contract.

As I remember, one other company had the same issue and ended up grandfathering the rate. It can be done, although it might require programming. And, the TOS refers to the brochure you got when you signed your contract, NOT the newest one out on the street. 411 calls did not have their price listed in the RATE plan section of my brochure.

All I was saying is that with Cingular circling the wagons, probably the only way to approach this issue if you take offense to the increase is to remove your PPU TXT and have you account noted as why [Doesn't do much, except stating your displeasure] or filing written response and trying arbitration. I offered up the grandfathering as one possibility. AND, it should be possible, although it might take some changes on Cingular's end. It is a possible resolution that "could" be mandated by arbitration.

I never said either option would work...just that they are probably the only options left at this time.

I am tired of the Cingular REP attitude that Cingular Customers should take every change by Cingular quietly without saying a peep. Believe me, the acts of Cingular this past year or so and the attitudes expressed in the employee forum [especially seeing so many that didn't think flipping features without client permission was okay ] keep me constantly evaluating the competition for the right opportunity to leave. I will NOT sign a two year contract with Cingular based on the business practices and CS expirences of the past 2 years just so I can leave when I want. I used to recommend Cingular --- no more.

[awj223]

Only problem is that feature cannot be grandfathered, just like when 411 calls or insurance was increased.

Are you getting paid to just repeat the company line? Or, did you write the billing software and do you know something about it that I don't?

It is obvious that overage rates can be set per plan in that software, since people with plans pay different overages than PPU users. It seems like all they need to do is create a new Service called something like "Grandfathered PPU" with a monthly cost of $0.00, 0 included SMS/MMS, and overage of $.10, then add it to all existing accounts...unless their billing software is even more retarded than I think it is.

[veriztd]

Are you getting paid to just repeat the company line? Or, did you write the billing software and do you know something about it that I don't?

It is obvious that overage rates can be set per plan in that software, since people with plans pay different overages than PPU users. It seems like all they need to do is create a new Service called something like "Grandfathered PPU" with a monthly cost of $0.00, 0 included SMS/MMS, and overage of $.10, then add it to all existing accounts...unless their billing software is even more retarded than I think it is.

I will repeat, THERE IS NOTHING IN YOUR CONTRACT THAT STATES THAT TEXT MESSAGING IS GUARANTEED @ $.10/MSG WITH THE PPU FEATURE. Your contract may show text ppu but there is nothing in your contract that states the price per message. I don't know why you folks think otherwise. A product brochure is not a contract.

[veriztd]

I am tired of the Cingular REP attitude that Cingular Customers should take every change by Cingular quietly without saying a peep.

Sorry you feel that way but Cingular reps have a policy they have to adhere to and arbitration might be your only option to get it through to corporate. I enforce policies, I don't write them. I do not agree with the change but then again, nobody asked for my opinion before it was mandated.

[veriztd]

Are you getting paid to just repeat the company line? Or, did you write the billing software and do you know something about it that I don't?

It is obvious that overage rates can be set per plan in that software, since people with plans pay different overages than PPU users. It seems like all they need to do is create a new Service called something like "Grandfathered PPU" with a monthly cost of $0.00, 0 included SMS/MMS, and overage of $.10, then add it to all existing accounts...unless their billing software is even more retarded than I think it is.

I am not in the IT dept and don't know what it would take, but I don't think it will ever happen. When the cost for 7-7 N&W was increased, it changed for everybody whether they had the feature at $7 or were signing up for new service. No difference here.

The best option is to file for arbitration.

[Aurora]

HERE IS MORE PROOF


You may want to follow your own words about misinformation...


People can argue with my all day, but I can tell you by now, every rep knows not to cancel an account due to the increase. Be prepared for scripts to be read...


Sincerely,
Cingular Employee

Warning! We have a fanboy who (1) thinks this is all fun and games (based on the icons used in his post, (2) probably a lowly rep who reads scripts all day long (i.e., no decision-making power, and (3) hides behind the "Cingular Employee" title.

Give me a break. I got out of my contract just fine and dandy (granted, it was the $7 n/w feature price increase). I don't need you to sit here and tell me that I'm spreading misinformation. I recommend you avoid trolling and your sad attempts to discredit serious posts when you yourself aren't providing any solid (or new) information.

Thanks.

[Aurora]

I will repeat, THERE IS NOTHING IN YOUR CONTRACT THAT STATES THAT TEXT MESSAGING IS GUARANTEED @ $.10/MSG WITH THE PPU FEATURE. Your contract may show text ppu but there is nothing in your contract that states the price per message. I don't know why you folks think otherwise. A product brochure is not a contract.

No, that's not what the contract states. The contract states the following:

IF WE INCREASE THE PRICE OF ANY OF THE SERVICES TO WHICH YOU SUBSCRIBE, BEYOND THE LIMITS SET FORTH IN YOUR RATE PLAN BROCHURE...YOU MAY TERMINATE THIS AGREEMENT WITHOUT PAYING AN EARLY TERMINATION FEE OR RETURNING OR PAYING FOR ANY PROMOTIONAL ITEMS, PROVIDED YOUR NOTICE OF TERMINATION IS DELIVERED TO US WITHIN THIRTY (30) DAYS AFTER THE FIRST BILL REFLECTING THE CHANGE.

See the big, red, bold letters?

[Aurora]

I am not in the IT dept and don't know what it would take, but I don't think it will ever happen. When the cost for 7-7 N&W was increased, it changed for everybody whether they had the feature at $7 or were signing up for new service. No difference here.

The best option is to file for arbitration.

This is very true. I would have preferred to have the price of the feature stay the same ($7/mo), but since they were unable to grandfather me, I asked to be released from my contract.