Cingular raising PPU SMS pricing 1/21/07 - Waiving ETF?

[TxTwin]

Yes, I read the thread. I merely stated this notion because in the end, I feel, in my opinion that the topic on hand is a bit over exaggerated.

I feel Cingular gives alot more to us, as consumers that cleary justifies $0.05 on hand. and if Im going to sit here and fight about something, then at least fight about whats on the table, not assumptions, ifs and or buts.

If the $0.05 increase is that detrimental, and enough for you to really want to leave Cingular, then I dont know what else to tell you..

For sure, jsut the rollover alone already is a huge BENEFIT to me compared to any other carrier, just my opinion.

Why do you feel you have to fight with us in the first place? And that WE should be the ones to go to our corner and say that cingtd and CingularZ are right...Cingular has EVERY RIGHT to change whatever they want and only we have to abide by the contract. The contract is not cut and dry on this issue...not one of you have been able to prove that it is 100% without a doubt valid and legal and would stand up in arbitration.

I have clearly stated that this was not the first thing for me that has soured my opinion of Cingular, and not the first for others. I have also said that I stay with Cingular because, unfortunately, the RollOver best fits my needs. However, my usage is increasing and soon, it will no longer be a benefit, as at the next price break, rollover will not really be a factor for ME.

Yes, maybe it has become over stated. BUT, it is because of a few Cingular employees and fanboys/apologists that continue to state their OPINION as fact and tell us we should just shut up and say "Thank you Cingular for showing me the light -- Yes, Lord Jack, we do need to add a TXT plan so you can increase your ARPU".

HOFO is a place that we can come and express our discontent...If no customer requests an out using this, or state they would like out or grandfather (apparently that was done by another provider in a similar situation)...if no customer calls and states that they will not jump and pay for a text plan just to help Cingular raise their ARPU...if no customer calls and requests that instead their TXT is BLOCKED (which, by the way, apparently Cingular will not guarantee the block)....arrrgghh! What next? We have pointed out that the 10c was clearly stated on our rate plan brochures, and in our service summaries. If Cingular had just included free incoming txt's with the increase, or at least a certain number a month, you probably wouldn't have heard much complaint except for those that lost coverage in the "Integration" and are just looking for a way out.

To take the apartment analogy from above and bring it a bit closer...Say you rent an apartment with a view of the lake/bay/mountain (your choice) with a nice patio to enjoy that view, several club houses with pools and recreational facilities. YOUR brochure lists and shows these amenities, and your lease "references" them just as "amenities". You agree to pay $1000 a month. Then, suddenly they want to tear out your patio for the rest of your lease for renovations that leave you without patio for months-- and when you ask for a rent reduction, they tell you the patio (that they will charge you to weed and clean if you don't maintain) is not part of your lease (Plan)? And, they start to charge extra for every time you use the pool? They offer you a choice of paying a membership (txt plan) if you don't want to pay per use....

I don't think this thread would have had near as much traction if it weren't for the posters [We all know who they are] that told us that CINGULAR has every RIGHT to raise the price and we should suck it up and add that Text Plan...and they know that this is 100% enforcable and clearly stated because they WORK for Cingular.

Give me a break. I think it is time for the Cingular Employees that are repeating their same opinions over and over as fact with no new information to add to the discussion return to the thread about this in the EMPLOYEE forum and leave us to discuss amongst the customers our success or lack of success in fighting Cingular in a change to our contract that we disagree with....

I'm done. Between the way Cingular handled my account during the "rollout" of GSM, the integration of Blue & Orange towers, the voice mail platform changes (that was a nightmare and a mess), the LTV saga, the Roaming nasty grams that some received (when Cingular doesn't even show you when you are roaming, and confuse the issue by showing Cingular Towers in other markets as ROAMING on your bill), and the horrible way they handled Free2Go accounts.....this was just one more piece of poorly executed change that makes me cringe at the thought of ever signing another contract....let alone a 2 year contract with this company!

[chibby]

I`m sure it was a case by case basis and maybe because I called early on. I asked if my incoming would now be .15 and was told yes. I told them that Blue incoming was free and it didn`t matter if I was on a text plan or not, it was still free. Was put on hold while she talked to a supervisor. She came back on to tell me that the supervisor agreed as well and I would be let off.

Maybe I just got lucky.

[david7700]

Damn straight you got lucky.

Cingular has locked up, reinforced, and circled the wagons on this one. I went to the store to talk, and even the employees working have been told to enforce the "contract" and say things like,

"if you don't use PPU, you don't pay" - BuLLShat!! I have no choice to recieve TXT's, and no option was given when I signed up, therefore it is NOT optional! And PPU was an included part of my Service!

"you have to call customer service on that one" - O.K. buddy, so you employees are basically worthless and only there to sell stuff and sucker people into contracts and then say, "we raise the price of an included DATA SERVICE and you have no way out, thanks for choosing Cingular!"

[TxTwin]

Its funny you mention this example, let me put it in easier terms for you then..

According to your theory, that is correct. Why? Because the contract that you normally sign with your landlord, states clearly that through a range of your rental/leasing period, the price is agreed upon, hence called your LEASE.

The problem is you cant apply this to the T&C, or shall i say your contract with CINGULAR... why?

Heres the contract for you to read...

"IF WE INCREASE THE PRICE OF ANY OF THE SERVICES TO WHICH YOU SUBSCRIBE... YOU MAY TERMINATE THIS AGREEMENT WITHOUT PAYING AN EARLY TERMINATION FEE... PROVIDED YOUR NOTICE OF TERMINATION IS DELIVERED TO US WITHIN THIRTY (30) DAYS AFTER THE FIRST BILL REFLECTING THE CHANGE.""

Do you notice the key word?

Let me give you a hint, its called SUBSCRIBE. Technically so, pay per use is not a subscription price. Its not a set price that is agreed upon prior? why? Because its a PAY PER USAGE rate, which means you only get charged if you use it, and if you dont, you wont. So for example, in case you are still confused.. if they change your RATE PLAN, or the MEDIA BUNDLE that you signed up for , then yes.. they broke the contract, but a PPU, or a company taxed fee or local tax increase, sorry that doesnt count.

So from a legal standpoint, they can change that rate and no it doesnt not void your contract. Sorry, but no one is getting out of their contract because of the PPU increase, at least not if you are trying to use the legal case as you mistakenly thought so prior..

You need to compare apples to apples, the problem is your example is not the same. Hope you understand.

You are stating YOUR interpretation as THE interpretation! Are you a lawyer? Even if you are, you get a bunch of lawyers in a room and they will argue case law on both sides....if they couldn't there wouldn't be so many lawyers and law suits.

The issue of "Subscription" has been discussed thoroughly....So, if I am on contract and have [Okay I'll use the brochure I have handy to make it easiest] -- the Family Talk Plan for 700RO for $69.00? Am I subscribed to that PLAN?

Okay, if I am not subscribed to that PLAN, what am I subscribed to??

Okay, now on my brochure that is referenced in the Service Summary and contract clause...has a big ORANGE rectangle with the Family Talk Plans. AND in that same rectangle is the statement "INCLUDED FEATURES" and under INCLUDED FEATURES is listed Nationwide Long Distance, Voice Mail, Call Forwarding, Call Waiting, 3 Way Calling, Caller ID, Detailed Billing, Text/Instant Messaging (10c per message) [AND YES the price of 10c is LISTED in the brochure], Picture/Video Messaging (25c per message) and Media Net Browsing (1c/KB).

So...using your logic, you would be fine if Cingular told you that next month they will start charging you $1.00 for every LD call, $0.50 for every voice mail deposit AND retrieval (regardless of from cell or landline), and $.xx for every call that is forwarded, and $0.xx for every call that is waiting, and $0.xx for every 3 way call, and $0.01 for every Caller ID displayed on the phone, and $5.00 for detailed billing....and so forth...

Would you still say these are not subscribed services and that you have to suck it up and pay these fees? I hope you understand.

[CingularZ]

I`m sure it was a case by case basis and maybe because I called early on. I asked if my incoming would now be .15 and was told yes. I told them that Blue incoming was free and it didn`t matter if I was on a text plan or not, it was still free. Was put on hold while she talked to a supervisor. She came back on to tell me that the supervisor agreed as well and I would be let off.

Maybe I just got lucky.

I think it was because you were legacy Blue customer... which means you prob had an awesome voice plan no?

[chibby]

900 mins/ 59.99 + 9.99 add a line. 100 text for 2.99 on each line. Total 70.64/month after taxes and fan discount.

I now have 700 mins/unlimited text and nights at 7pm for 66.18 after tax and fan discount. 2 lines.

I think I did ok.

[CingularZ]

TXT Win,

Im not going to sit here and argue with you, I do understand we dont agree so lets just leave it as that

But the bottom line IS which is something neither you or can change, is the fact that the PPU rate will increase, and according to the contract terms (ORANGE customers, I wont say for BLUE) it's allowed.

Keep in mind, a subscription would be like a MEDIA bundle or a RATE PLAN and in those specific cases, the rate per txt message has not INCREASED, ITs still $.10 per, therefore as stated in the T&C, they have not changed ANY SUBSCRIBED SVC Fees.

As I stated before, my opinion is that this topic alone is overly exaggerated. $.05 is just too minimal to argue, and seemingly so and YES I DO UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU GUYS ARE ARGUING ABOUT, ITS NOT ABOUT THE MONEY, ITS ABOUT THE PRINCIPAL.. thats fine, but in the end, regardless.. it is , what it is.

If it was just charged to me, and not others.. then I would feel its unfair, but this is spread across the board, and I do understand ALL BUSINESS has costs increase or decrease, the same token would be if Cingular was to discount the rate, would you so noble to not take the option and state, BUT MY CONTRACT SAYS ITS $.10 so Im sticking with it !! Prob not...

[CingularZ]

Why do you feel you have to fight with us in the first place? And that WE should be the ones to go to our corner and say that cingtd and CingularZ are right...Cingular has EVERY RIGHT to change whatever they want and only we have to abide by the contract. The contract is not cut and dry on this issue...not one of you have been able to prove that it is 100% without a doubt valid and legal and would stand up in arbitration.

I have clearly stated that this was not the first thing for me that has soured my opinion of Cingular, and not the first for others. I have also said that I stay with Cingular because, unfortunately, the RollOver best fits my needs. However, my usage is increasing and soon, it will no longer be a benefit, as at the next price break, rollover will not really be a factor for ME.

Yes, maybe it has become over stated. BUT, it is because of a few Cingular employees and fanboys/apologists that continue to state their OPINION as fact and tell us we should just shut up and say "Thank you Cingular for showing me the light -- Yes, Lord Jack, we do need to add a TXT plan so you can increase your ARPU".

HOFO is a place that we can come and express our discontent...If no customer requests an out using this, or state they would like out or grandfather (apparently that was done by another provider in a similar situation)...if no customer calls and states that they will not jump and pay for a text plan just to help Cingular raise their ARPU...if no customer calls and requests that instead their TXT is BLOCKED (which, by the way, apparently Cingular will not guarantee the block)....arrrgghh! What next? We have pointed out that the 10c was clearly stated on our rate plan brochures, and in our service summaries. If Cingular had just included free incoming txt's with the increase, or at least a certain number a month, you probably wouldn't have heard much complaint except for those that lost coverage in the "Integration" and are just looking for a way out.

To take the apartment analogy from above and bring it a bit closer...Say you rent an apartment with a view of the lake/bay/mountain (your choice) with a nice patio to enjoy that view, several club houses with pools and recreational facilities. YOUR brochure lists and shows these amenities, and your lease "references" them just as "amenities". You agree to pay $1000 a month. Then, suddenly they want to tear out your patio for the rest of your lease for renovations that leave you without patio for months-- and when you ask for a rent reduction, they tell you the patio (that they will charge you to weed and clean if you don't maintain) is not part of your lease (Plan)? And, they start to charge extra for every time you use the pool? They offer you a choice of paying a membership (txt plan) if you don't want to pay per use....

I don't think this thread would have had near as much traction if it weren't for the posters [We all know who they are] that told us that CINGULAR has every RIGHT to raise the price and we should suck it up and add that Text Plan...and they know that this is 100% enforcable and clearly stated because they WORK for Cingular.

Give me a break. I think it is time for the Cingular Employees that are repeating their same opinions over and over as fact with no new information to add to the discussion return to the thread about this in the EMPLOYEE forum and leave us to discuss amongst the customers our success or lack of success in fighting Cingular in a change to our contract that we disagree with....

I'm done. Between the way Cingular handled my account during the "rollout" of GSM, the integration of Blue & Orange towers, the voice mail platform changes (that was a nightmare and a mess), the LTV saga, the Roaming nasty grams that some received (when Cingular doesn't even show you when you are roaming, and confuse the issue by showing Cingular Towers in other markets as ROAMING on your bill), and the horrible way they handled Free2Go accounts.....this was just one more piece of poorly executed change that makes me cringe at the thought of ever signing another contract....let alone a 2 year contract with this company!

I didnt see this post prior, but in defense.. I am not here trying to say who is right or not.

You seem to have this power control, that suddenly the rules of this forum must be in your favor.

Yes you have absolutely every right to come to HOFO to express your discontent, but at the same token, users have the right to express their appraisal.

It is not my fault that you dont seem to understand the terms and condition of your contract, but hey.. IF YOU CAN SUE CINGULAR ON THE BASIS OF YOUR THEORY, THEN ILL SUPPORT YOU , Just let me know and I will add my name to your class action lawsuit. But I think you will soon find out, your "interpretation" will not hold up in the court of law. and again, this isnt about Right or Wrong, this is business and it is what it is.

Also Im not forcing you to do anything, just like you.. I am just stating my opinion, as you are too.

But what I cant figure out is, it seems to me you have more issues with Cingular than this PPU increase which btw didnt even happen yet. So why dont you just leave and go to the "better" carrier who will do more for you and give you justice? Surely a $175 ETF fee isnt going to stop you, assuming you got an awesome phone compensated much higher when you first sign up. Consider it break even right?

[david7700]

I already had my phone when I signed the contract for Cingular Service! ETF fee just bends me over backwards and screws me from hell.

Sure, I don't have to use SMS, but what if that is part of the reason I signed up with Cingular? So that I can pay 10c per message! How can you people not see that this is pure extortion? 175$ will stop me from leaving when that is the cost of almost 5 months service!

[TxTwin]

I didnt see this post prior, but in defense.. I am not here trying to say who is right or not.

You seem to have this power control, that suddenly the rules of this forum must be in your favor.

Yes you have absolutely every right to come to HOFO to express your discontent, but at the same token, users have the right to express their appraisal.

It is not my fault that you dont seem to understand the terms and condition of your contract, but hey.. IF YOU CAN SUE CINGULAR ON THE BASIS OF YOUR THEORY, THEN ILL SUPPORT YOU , Just let me know and I will add my name to your class action lawsuit. But I think you will soon find out, your "interpretation" will not hold up in the court of law. and again, this isnt about Right or Wrong, this is business and it is what it is.

Also Im not forcing you to do anything, just like you.. I am just stating my opinion, as you are too.

But what I cant figure out is, it seems to me you have more issues with Cingular than this PPU increase which btw didnt even happen yet. So why dont you just leave and go to the "better" carrier who will do more for you and give you justice? Surely a $175 ETF fee isnt going to stop you, assuming you got an awesome phone compensated much higher when you first sign up. Consider it break even right?

I have had ONE "subsidized" phone from Cingular...my original TDMA wonder brick. I have explained WHY I have not left...yet.

I have never said that the issue is clearly on the side of the customer. I have presented some arguments that could weigh in the customer favor in arbitration. Again....You say you aren't saying who is right or not, but you sure seem to be here saying who is right or wrong when you constantly say that we don't understand.... and we can't read the contract...

I never said I was going to start a class action suit, or sue Cingular personally, or even that I was chosing the Arbitration path. I did express my opinion in various posts regarding this topic that the oft quoted paragraph can be interpreted differently than the fanboy interpretation that Cingular is 100% solid in their right to deny someone their get out of jail free card (no ETF). You might want to re-read my post 287, and, in 450, I indicated that I thought that Cingular would get more people buying bigger packages for txt with a little honey --- free incoming and you might get a few new TXT addicts...

Again...explain how my rate plan lists the "Included" features, including pricing for text messages...yet they are not subscribed? And, if what you say about subscribed services...will you be as agreeable if they start charging you for those other features? Like Long Distance? Caller ID? Voice Mail deposits and retrievals from landlines? You don't HAVE to use Long Distance or voicemail...just like you don't have to use Text Messaging. [720, 754]

I have repeatedly indicated it was not about the Text Messaging per se...but the direction this company is going. If someone that is unhappy with Cingular can find a way to get out of their ETF and leave over this, more power to them. [533 +] I also stood up for Cingular when someone said the notice was in fine print on their bill stating that on my bill (my region) it was clearly printed and visible.[724]

I have also indicated that since Cingular has circled the wagons (acknowledged your view point) that it is unlikely anyone that didn't luck out early will succeed in getting out by repetitively calling Customer Service [553 + ] I indicated if they are serious about using this as an out, they need to go the formal way and request it in writing and when/if denied, then request arbitration. I believe I even indicated that I was not sure they would even win in arbitration, but that I saw it as the last chance.

I also feel that anyone that leaves (with or without paying ETF) that feels this increase was out of line and is one of their reasons for leaving, they should make it darn clear that it was part of their decision making. And, that those that don't need to do much text, stop doing any and have it "blocked" instead of rewarding Cingular with getting a txt plan.* [Post 514 +]

If we don't squawk about the increase...and if there is nothing posted in any of the forums about customer displeasure of the increase, the management team is likely to say...well, they took that one without complaint, lets try forcing XYZ on them next. And, Cingular could have avoided all this by either allowing free incoming at the same time, or allowing a few free incoming on any account -- remember, they have said they cannot guarantee that they will be able to block all non-administrative messages. They are just looking for the ARPU increase and the $$ from American Idol.

If all you want to do is quote the same paragraph we have quoted and tell us we can't read...then I am sure the employee forum will welcome your interpretation with open arms. For those that are trying to get out, or are sending written notice, or trying arbitration...please keep the rest of us posted on your success or lack there of....as far as interpretation of the contract, unless either side has a new twist on the interpretation, we can probably leave that paragraph where it lies....both sides have quoted it enough that it should be emblazoned in all our minds.

Again, if you had really read most of my posts on this subject, you would see that I have clearly stated that with the wagons circled, the chance are slim of getting out, but for those that want to try, I have tried to give some points to use in their argument...I can read, and I can think for myself... [720, 724 +]

Okay you can respond and get the last word. GO for it! I am not the control freak. I just can't stand the attitudes some of the fanboys that feel they have to counter every negative post about Cingular.

I'm sorry, but those that are unhappy with this and other changes at Cingluar and want to try and get out should have the opportunity to discuss their approaches and successes and failures without being called stupid and told that they can't read a contract....that is open to interpretation by all...And yes, as .7 (I believe) said, most of those trying to get out of their contract over this issue probably are wanting out for other reasons as well. Others are probably incensed but it doesn't affect them because they don't use PPU because they have a plan or don't Text...but are concerned about what Cingular has planned next for us...

Best wishes to all for a happy, healthy and safe 2007!

[CingularZ]

I already had my phone when I signed the contract for Cingular Service! ETF fee just bends me over backwards and screws me from hell.

Sure, I don't have to use SMS, but what if that is part of the reason I signed up with Cingular? So that I can pay 10c per message! How can you people not see that this is pure extortion? 175$ will stop me from leaving when that is the cost of almost 5 months service!

It has always been known to me that PAY PER USE was not binding to the contract, my rate plan, my blackberry and latop tethering was.

Perhaps the misunderstanding is really about your contract, not so much about this price increase.

Lets assume Cingular LOWERED the prices for PPU, or made a change as they had within the year such as having all messages (TXT,SMS,MMS) be priced the same, would you pleased that you wouldnt be able to obtain those benefits because of your contract? Would you still be happy or be noble enough to not request anything, stick with your contract terms?

I think for the most part, there would be the same complaints as you are now... its a lose lose situation for Cingular imo, because customers always have the notion to want more , but dont want to pay for it. I just cant believe how any customer or person in general can expect any type of utility service to not EVER change their rates or fees.

[CingularZ]

TXTWin

As I stated before, It seems to me you have more of a personal issue whther with Cingular and/or the "fanboys" as you like to claim

Whats ironic about that statement is, what do you consider yourself? You sit here badmouthing Cingular, but then defend it so I take it you're just a two face?

So let me get this straight, you can say NEGATIVE things about Cingular , which btw, yes you have every right to, but no one else can counter your claims to defend perhaps, their own opinion?

Believe me, there are many other things that I dont agree with Cingular, but at the end of the day, OVERALL, its still the best provider for me and vs any other carrier, It would take alot more than a PPU increase for me to really want to leave. To be able to do the things I do today, is beyond any monetary value that I could think of.

I didnt write the contract, you just cant seem to understand the terminology which Im trying to point out to you. Also Cingular MGMT, doesnt make decisions based on Howardforums.

I mentioned the lawsuit to prove my point that your intepretation is wrong, yet you seem to go around in circles. As I stated before, if you feel the CONTRACT upholds the PPU price that you initially signed up for, then please go ahead and let us know if it works. I can admit I am wrong, can you?

The decision to increase PPU was a matter of financial reasons that the company had accessed in regards to the recent trend of txt messaging and the lack of subscription svcs. What you dont know is, the percentage of people who use txt message (at the $.10 rate) was actually paying more than what a bundle would cost. Whether you believe this or not, wells I guess thats another debate that I'll leave out.

Anyways, my opinion is this forum is matter of discussion. I think we can all agree that any topic presented, you state your opinion/point and your defenses to support that claim. And thats that, just please stop with the assumptions and the prejudicial claims that just because we dont agree with you, now were fanboys or wuteva else you want to use to make an excuse that some things arent so bad as you may think..

[GSM4ruralareas]

I just can't stand the attitudes some of the fanboys that feel they have to counter every negative post about Cingular.

I could not agree more!

[tszefr]

Lets assume Cingular LOWERED the prices for PPU, or made a change as they had within the year such as having all messages (TXT,SMS,MMS) be priced the same, would you pleased that you wouldnt be able to obtain those benefits because of your contract?

Do I have to read your own Terms to you? They say, in part "IF WE INCREASE THE PRICE OF ANY OF THE SERVICES TO WHICH YOU SUBSCRIBE... OR WE MATERIALLY DECREASE THE GEOGRAPHICAL COVERAGE AREA... YOU MAY TERMINATE THIS AGREEMENT..."

Seems very clear. I subscribe to PPU. My bill shows that I subscribe because I got charged. Nobody will complain if the prices are lowered or the coverage increased. Neither would be grounds for complaint or termination.

Nobody said a purveyor cannot increase prices. My price is however set and agreed to with a term stipulated in the paperwork provided to me. I have already been pillaged because they have an evil charge for incoming. As a long time AT&T customer the price for years was a dime to send. There is no justification for charging for incoming, and the the increase to 15 cents makes my price now TRIPLE what it was 6 months ago. When a company can make a handsome profit charging only a nickel to send and free to receive, I call it highway robbery to charge 15 cents each. If Cingular insists the price will be 15, I have the right to terminate without ETF, per the Terms.

Just because the price of voice minutes has imploded does not mean there is any justification to make up for it by extracting exhorbitant profit from those who would send a few text messages!

[GSM4ruralareas]

How difficult is it for you to understand that a subscription service doesn't have to have a base monthly cost? The terms don't specify that they have to increase the base monthly cost of subscription services, but are vague. IMO PPU text messaging is a subscription service with a base cost of $0 per month. The cost per message is also an attribute of that subscription. Most people are also subscribed to M2M, VM, etc. at $0 per month.. The cost just increased for those without a text plan or bundle with a nonzero base monthly cost.

What if they took away unlimited M2M, n&w, charged $1 per minute to access voicemail, and raised the additional minute cost from $.45 to $.95? Those are all optional in that you don't HAVE to have them in order to have a RATE PLAN, you can opt out. And you don't HAVE to use your voice minutes. You can keep the phone off all the time or never answer your calls, therefore additional minutes are optional.