Verbal representations are hard to prove. They'll defer to their TOS and stick it to you anyway.
I have a printout from an online sales assistant, and the fact that the in-store corporate employee signed me up for it.
Anyways, I won't be the one hurting if AT&T decides I need to be on a PDA plan. Worse case scenario for me is I switch to the $19.99 PDA plan once my six months for the rebate are over. Worse case for them is I go to Sprint. Either way, I don't pay any more.
Verbal representations are hard to prove. They'll defer to their TOS and stick it to you anyway.
That is what I am stressing. When I worked for Cingular, I followed the TOS and I always got good QA and customer feedback. If you do your research and you feel you are being told something that goes against what you read, then you must get it in writing, on company letterhead, dated and signed. Otherwise, without proof, the company - whatever company will go by its terms and conditions. You screw yourself by not coverying your .. back.
You are missing the point, AT&T owns the network, you are only using the network as thier paying quest, they make the rules you have to abide by them. If you, as a guest are not polite then you will be told to leave and escorted to the door. It is the same way with every company. Every website has 'acceptable use policies' every company you work for has 'attendance,conduct,pay, and quality ploices you must accept and agree to prior to employment. If you have ever had major surgery, you have to sign pages of paperwork saying you understand this and that, and agree that your were told you could die on the table, ect. All of these are basic Terms of service statements, companies don't have to spell it out for you if they did these statements would take books, it is up to you as a consumer to read and ask questions. For example AT&T makes at least THREE references in its many TOS's. (1) you have to a compatible device, (2) only unlimited data plans are to be used to tether and (3) medianet plans are not for PDA devices. If you call AT&T Mobility and ask them they will tell you the company defines a PDA device as any handheld device with an embeded QWETY keypad. So, it doesn't take a friggin genius to put the pieces together. So do your research, read, and use the brain God gave you - not everyhing is going to be written out for you nor does it have to be.
So according to those stupid TOS I should be able to tether my PDA to my phone using MediaNet since the PDA does not have embeded QWERTY keypad.
No, the TOS specifically say you may not tether unless you use the data connect or blackberry tethered data plan. It's very speicific, only those two plans.
However, by way of comparison....
If media max was not allowed on a PDA, it would be mentioned in the TOS. And it's not.
"compatible device" doesn't cut it. If you look up the word 'compatible' it means "capable of." And the PDA is 100% compatible with Media Max. If they wanted to specify you can't use certain plans with certain devies it would say instead "allowed" , "permitted" or any number of better words.
An attourney wrote this, folks. The words were chosen carefully.
Oh yeah, and the TOS mention nothing about a QWERTY keyboard defining a PDA. That's all internal communication. There's nothing written anywhere that states this that I have found.
You are missing the point, AT&T owns the network, you are only using the network as thier paying quest, they make the rules you have to abide by them. If you, as a guest are not polite then you will be told to leave and escorted to the door. It is the same way with every company. Every website has 'acceptable use policies' every company you work for has 'attendance,conduct,pay, and quality ploices you must accept and agree to prior to employment. If you have ever had major surgery, you have to sign pages of paperwork saying you understand this and that, and agree that your were told you could die on the table, ect. All of these are basic Terms of service statements, companies don't have to spell it out for you if they did these statements would take books, it is up to you as a consumer to read and ask questions. For example AT&T makes at least THREE references in its many TOS's. (1) you have to a compatible device, (2) only unlimited data plans are to be used to tether and (3) medianet plans are not for PDA devices. If you call AT&T Mobility and ask them they will tell you the company defines a PDA device as any handheld device with an embeded QWETY keypad. So, it doesn't take a friggin genius to put the pieces together. So do your research, read, and use the brain God gave you - not everyhing is going to be written out for you nor does it have to be.
Nope, sorry, but you are wrong. ATT LEASES those air spaces from the gov't and and the gov't is ME. They may make the rules but they don't get to just make rules in secret. You know and I know and everyone else knows that there are lots of companies that have had the crap sued out of them and LOST for doing this very same thing. I would bet if ATT came out and said that everyone that was on Media Max 200 that ever tether is now kicked off or immediately put on a bigger plan that there would be a class action law suit that they would lose. On top of that it would be all over the papers, airwaves and boards like this and the bad press would just kill them.
I'm not a lawyer, but I work with policy issues every day. I know what happens when something isn't written down and made public....we lose...EVERY TIME.
So according to those stupid TOS I should be able to tether my PDA to my phone using MediaNet since the PDA does not have embeded QWERTY keypad.
No because tethering, unless you are on an eligable unlimited data plan as quoted in my first post, is expressly not allowed under the TOS. Again, remember there is a big difference in what you can technically make happen with your wireless equipment and what you are allowed to make happen per AT&T Mobility's TOS.
Nope, sorry, but you are wrong. ATT LEASES those air spaces from the gov't and and the gov't is ME. They may make the rules but they don't get to just make rules in secret. You know and I know and everyone else knows that there are lots of companies that have had the crap sued out of them and LOST for doing this very same thing. I would bet if ATT came out and said that everyone that was on Media Max 200 that ever tether is now kicked off or immediately put on a bigger plan that there would be a class action law suit that they would lose. On top of that it would be all over the papers, airwaves and boards like this and the bad press would just kill them.
I'm not a lawyer, but I work with policy issues every day. I know what happens when something isn't written down and made public....we lose...EVERY TIME.
I'm not going to debate with you. I wll say you are wrong - period - I woked in the telcom industry for over 20 years, I used to review tariffis, contracts and executive escalations, as well as work directly with many lawyers. I have also worked for Cingular, so I am famular with thier systems, TOS, 'code of business conduct' ect. You are welcome to see reality any way you choose, but keep in mind I speak from first hand experience - and you - well from opinion.
I'm not going to debate with you. I wll say you are wrong - period - I woked in the telcom industry for over 20 years, I used to review tariffis, contracts and executive escalations, as well as work directly with many lawyers. I have also worked for Cingular, so I am famular with thier systems, TOS, 'code of business conduct' ect. You are welcome to see reality any way you choose, but keep in mind I speak from first hand experience - and you - well from opinion.
You can't deny bad publicity would be extremely distasteful in their mouths. Fortunately, some of us have the ability to make that happen in the event of us getting screwed over by vague wording and using terms outside the public norm.
That's why these consumer affairs specialists with news stations hold so much weight - they work. You point out their business practices to enough people, sales go down. My particular specialty is print, but I do know Clark Howard's number.
You can't deny bad publicity would be extremely distasteful in their mouths. Fortunately, some of us have the ability to make that happen in the event of us getting screwed over by vague wording and using terms outside the public norm.
That's why these consumer affairs specialists with news stations hold so much weight - they work. You point out their business practices to enough people, sales go down. My particular specialty is print, but I do know Clark Howard's number.
Yeah, because the whole debacle surrounding Cingular doubling their text messaging rates went so well. End result: you could opt out of your contract. Wow, big win for the consumer there.
ATT can, and will, screw you if they see that you've using MM200 on an unqualified phone.
You can't deny bad publicity would be extremely distasteful in their mouths. Fortunately, some of us have the ability to make that happen in the event of us getting screwed over by vague wording and using terms outside the public norm.
That's why these consumer affairs specialists with news stations hold so much weight - they work. You point out their business practices to enough people, sales go down. My particular specialty is print, but I do know Clark Howard's number.
Yes, but saddly, most 'bad' publicity only shows up the cunsumer's stupidity. However, usually by the time I would get the issue, the consumer would be so blind to that fact that they wouldn't realize that I was actually there to help them. A good example is where a consumer would self sue the company and claim emontional destress and harassment because the company sent them collection letters and cut thier service off. The consumer would claim many different reasons why they didn't, couldn't , wouldn't pay; but ignore the fact that 30 days is well ... 30 days on anyone's calander. Many times I would confront employees that supposedly told a consumer they would get XXX or YYY, only to be told ' I never said that'. and many times I would find account notes where that same consumer called in and hung up on CS, or was screaming and was verbal abusive on the phone - but then the company was in the wrong ??. My point is that companies and people make misstakes, so be smart, know the rules of the road, and know them better than the people you are dealing with; get any 'ifffey' issues in writing, on company letterhead and dated and signed. It's CYA all the way
Yeah, because the whole debacle surrounding Cingular doubling their text messaging rates went so well. End result: you could opt out of your contract. Wow, big win for the consumer there.
ATT can try, and will try, to screw you if they see that you've using MM200 on an unqualified phone.
Originally Posted by bradleyland
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