National 3G Maps

[ggore]

Ggore, if the latest map combined with my knowledge is to be believed, AT&T has made massive rural coverage upgrades around here. The map reflects a site in Ovando (wasn't live last time I drove to Helena, but hope it's real - that town's fought a long time to keep cell service away) and the area north of Seeley Lake shown as roaming is in fact native UMTS now (co-lo on the same site at Condon Church). It's odd THAT isn't shown despite it being there at least a couple months now, and coverage in Ovando (which I haven't seen with my own eyes yet) is shown despite obviously being more recent. Weird stuff there...

That's good, I'm happy they are paying some attention to Montana. I've driven Sheridan to Billings, up Hwy 3 to Lavina, over to Harlowton, up through Judith Gap to Great Falls, and on up to Calgary 10-11 times, suffering no service on my AT&T phone most of the way, and it's nice to know things have improved. Absolutely beautiful drive.

I take a screenshot of AT&T's coverage map every month for the state of Oklahoma, for comparison purposes, and nothing has changed for 8 months now, since they added an EDGE site 25 miles west of here, in a little town of 100 people in the same river valley, to fill in a gap in coverage. The addition of that one site meant that EVERY town in the western half of the state, in AT&T's native coverage area, no matter what size, now has an AT&T site IN it. There may be gaps in highway coverage, but every town is covered. Except ONE. This one. A county seat. We still have our gap here. And according to that store manager again, they have no plans to fill it in.

I hope they bring the equipment down here from one of the EDGE sites in New York City they want to shut down and use it to fill in this gap. They probably won't, I'm sure they know they're doomed when Pioneer turns on their LTE system and they still have only EDGE to offer.

[Jordan T]

You should've had roaming on either Alltel (this is now the AT&T network BUT Alltel only had GSM on about half their towers, even at that the signal was very weak, it didn't actually work right most of the time, etc. AT&T now has UMTS on every former Alltel CDMA site plus many new sites. They have not added GSM to any new sites that didn't already have GSM, but they have tweaked the GSM network so it works much better than it did) or CellularOne in both Billings and Great Falls, as well as a fair chunk of the Interstate.

Much much better now though. Native UMTS HSPA+ that is much further reaching than Alltel CDMA was or Verizon is

[sprke81]

Much much better now though. Native UMTS HSPA+ that is much further reaching than Alltel CDMA was or Verizon is

I'm not quite as thrilled with the AT&T network in MT as you are. I can tell you its not near as good as the their "mature" netwok in other places. I was back in MT end of January...on the way there I travelled down I90 through SD. My phone did a lot of switching back and forth between GSM and HSPA..especially when the signal was weak. I found this same thing in MT where I used to live. Also data speeds aren't very good yet. Lots of my friends and family have switched to VZW from AT&T because of decreased coverage from what they were used to with Alltel. I can't say I blame them..I wasn't very impressed with AT&T when I was there.

In the Omaha area AT&T is very good. I have never seen EDGE unless I go out of the coverage area and roam. I was doing speed tests today and getting over 8MB down and week or so ago I broke 10 down

[Jordan T]

I only have speed issues on sites that are still only one channel. Coverage is an interesting beast. The UMTS signal definitely doesn't reach some places the CDMA did. AT&T is rapidly adding sites and filling in where this is an issue. I know a person close to me but rural whose old Alltel phone kinda-worked at their house (really iffy terrain) and whose new AT&T phone didn't work. Verizon has no service at all where they live. They switched to Verizon due to the lack of coverage. They honestly believe now Verizon is great at their house. They're roaming constantly on AT&T. LOL. What's funnier is AT&T added a new site much closer to their house (new so no CDMA for them) and now the AT&T signal at their house is perfect. And they signed a two year contract and seem perfectly happy because their phones kinda work which the AT&T ones didn't at first. Next year of course unless Verizon does something they'll have no service at all. And since it's the almighty Verizon they'll probably just accept that and keep Verizon since after all "they're the best"

Similar with the road from Kalispell to Helena. I know a guy who travels it a lot. Switched to Verizon due to less coverage (Alltel roamed freely on Verizon and there are a few tiny dots of Verizon coverage from more distant sites along there - enough one could make an emergency call if one had to even if they'd have to hike a bit). Sure that was a loss for a few months. Now, apparently, AT&T has a good chunk of that road fully covered (Verizon has a few dots on high ground from a site at Clearwater that bounces off the mountains and makes some distant "hot spots"). But you know what? I bet he will still be glad he switched. And even convince himself scattered dots are better than waiting a few months for full service. AT&T has a terrible reputation here.

And rightly so, but they had it before they switched anyone. They lost many customers before anyone had an AT&T phone. Because they knew friends and relatives with AT&T who had terrible roaming service. The switch wasn't too smooth. The loss of some small marginal coverage areas where the wider channel width was an issue was offset by other places with much stronger signal now (there are many of those too! Even on launch day!). What killed the reputation was the overloading. One UMTS channel couldn't meet demand in the cities. Calls dropped in town for no apparent reason. Data would totally fail whenever the network was busy. Etc. Some major sites like downtown Kalispell are STILL one channel for no obvious reason (trouble adding PCS antennas or getting backhaul?). Voice is better even in those areas because neighbor cells are offloading a lot of outdoor traffic onto PCS (though with very weak signal shown on the phone. It's funny when you have one bar outside walk in a building and get five bars). But that one poor channel is just too overloaded for good data speeds. 500kbps isn't unusual downtown unless outside on PCS (then 1-2 Mbps due to the weak signal...). Given 500kbps was typical everywhere on Alltel though, and Verizon doesn't fare a whole lot better, I'd say it's not too bad now!

[ggore]

New 3G upgrades to HSPA+/EB in Kansas! As usual, no new areas have been upgraded from EDGE to 3G, but service in 5 cities, Dodge City, Garden City, Goodland, Colby, and Great Bend have been upgraded to HSPA+/EB. Good for them! One site in Colorado along Interstate 70 at Limon, has been upgraded as well. AT&T is now showing lots of upgrades in the Great Plains states, but, just as the AT&T store manager told me, nothing has been added or upgraded in Oklahoma.

Attachment 80224

[ilvla2]

New 3G upgrades to HSPA+/EB in Kansas! As usual, no new areas have been upgraded from EDGE to 3G, but service in 5 cities, Dodge City, Garden City, Goodland, Colby, and Great Bend have been upgraded to HSPA+/EB. Good for them! One site in Colorado along Interstate 70 at Limon, has been upgraded as well. AT&T is now showing lots of upgrades in the Great Plains states, but, just as the AT&T store manager told me, nothing has been added or upgraded in Oklahoma.

Attachment 80224

It looks like a good bit of Kansas is now 3G.

[ilvla2]

The maps have been upated to 3/16.

NorCal-

1.Susanville, Westwood, Honey Lake area, Wendel and Janesville in Lassen County in Northeastern California now have HSPA+ w/EB.

In Southeastern Idaho-

1.3G now in Felt, Lamont, Drummond, Tetonia, Driggs and Victor (Teton Valley).
2.3G now in Swan Valley.
3.3G now in Malad.
4.Expanded 3G around Rupert.
5.Expanded 3G in Blaine, Camas and Lincoln Counties.
6.3G now in Rogerson, Hollister and in Jackpot, NV (Jackpot is in the Mountain Time Zone, and is a HUGE gambling destination for Idahoan's, so I include it. It has more in common with ID than NV).

In Oregon-

1.HSPA+ w/EB now on in Selma, Kerby, Klamath Falls, Myrtle Creek, Roseburg, Bandon, Coos Bay, Florence, Newport, Toledo, Bend and Prineville.

Oh, Montana got a BUNCH of HSPA+ w/EB, Mark should be VERY happy!

WOW, they're really on the ball here in the west! All of those areas are VERY rural to very remote.

Edit-HSPA+ w/EB now on in Jackson, WY.

I don't see any new stuff in Nevada or Utah, and I couldn't tell you the changes in Arizona, New Mexico or Washington, as I haven't really paid attention to those states.

Edit-I found more goodies in California!

1.HSPA+ w/EB now on in Lone Pine, Independence, Keeler, Lee Vining, Mono Lake, Bridgeport and June Lake.

It looks like both North and South Dakota got a lot of new HSPA+ w/EB too.

AT&T is moving on up in the west, finally!

[ggore]

It looks like a good bit of Kansas is now 3G.

The western half of Kansas has been 100% 3G coverage for several years now. AT&T was required to upgrade the Alltel areas they bought to 3G service when they bought them. These upgrades are from 3G to HSPA+/EB service. There is a definite pattern going on here. This former Alltel country, and along with Montana and the Dakotas (although I wonder what sort of antennas AT&T is using in the Dakotas to produce a square coverage area LOL), it seems to be where the vast majority of AT&T upgrades are happening nowadays. They aren't adding any new 3G territory, just upgrading existing service to their "fake 4G" in order to compete with Verizon. These are areas where Verizon will be rolling out their LTE service over the next year, so I'm sure they're working hard to get something going to compete with that or face being left in the dust.

[ilvla2]

The western half of Kansas has been 100% 3G coverage for several years now. AT&T was required to upgrade the Alltel areas they bought to 3G service when they bought them. These upgrades are from 3G to HSPA+/EB service. There is a definite pattern going on here. This former Alltel country, and along with Montana and the Dakotas (although I wonder what sort of antennas AT&T is using in the Dakotas to produce a square coverage area LOL), it seems to be where the vast majority of AT&T upgrades are happening nowadays. They aren't adding any new 3G territory, just upgrading existing service to their "fake 4G" in order to compete with Verizon. These are areas where Verizon will be rolling out their LTE service over the next year, so I'm sure they're working hard to get something going to compete with that or face being left in the dust.

They added quite a bit of new 3G in Southeastern Idaho, check my post above.

"In Southeastern Idaho-

1.3G now in Felt, Lamont, Drummond, Tetonia, Driggs and Victor (Teton Valley).
2.3G now in Swan Valley.
3.3G now in Malad.
4.Expanded 3G around Rupert.
5.Expanded 3G in Blaine, Camas and Lincoln Counties.
6.3G now in Rogerson, Hollister and in Jackpot, NV (Jackpot is in the Mountain Time Zone, and is a HUGE gambling destination for Idahoan's, so I include it. It has more in common with ID than NV)."

[sprke81]

Wow very nice update. Now lets get rid of the EDGE areas..

[kneedragger32]

New 3G sites in Mississippi, as well as new EB areas. Also, according to mark the spot, lots of new areas should be coming online within the next month

[TWX]

Doesn't seem to show any new 3G in Michigan. Hopefully next map update.

[Jordan T]

The western half of Kansas has been 100% 3G coverage for several years now. AT&T was required to upgrade the Alltel areas they bought to 3G service when they bought them. These upgrades are from 3G to HSPA+/EB service. There is a definite pattern going on here. This former Alltel country, and along with Montana and the Dakotas (although I wonder what sort of antennas AT&T is using in the Dakotas to produce a square coverage area LOL), it seems to be where the vast majority of AT&T upgrades are happening nowadays. They aren't adding any new 3G territory, just upgrading existing service to their "fake 4G" in order to compete with Verizon. These are areas where Verizon will be rolling out their LTE service over the next year, so I'm sure they're working hard to get something going to compete with that or face being left in the dust.

ggore, saying they were "required" to like I said is kinda a stretch that people like on here. It made economic sense, and so they told the FCC it was one of the public interest benefits to allowing the purchase. No one knows if they'd said they were just going to do GSM what the FCC would've said. Western Kansas already was a GSM network (Unicel) but everywhere else was CDMA with isolated, near-useless GSM. Saying "hey look it's all going to be UMTS HSPA" was an easy way to show a tangible public interest reason for approval. No one at the FCC or DOJ said "nope, you have to add UMTS or we won't approve"

As for the squares in the Dakotas, I'm almost positive a mapping artifact. The Dakotas are flat as heck and a very weak, not really exactly usable signal, goes a long ways. So, presumably, they put bounding boxes on the mapping to show edges of expected usable service. This isn't perfect. T-Mobile's maps use (or used, I can't find any quick examples as their new maps are much less detailed than the old ones until you zoom in) circles in the same way if you look at them. Which, admittedly, make much more sense than squares GSM it's pretty simple... 35km and you're dead since you fall out of your timeslot. UMTS, this is a harder call (where to bind as the maximum possible range regardless of predicted signal), since there's no hard limit in the tech, but many variables.

As for no new 3G territory, WRONG. I can't tell you how much new area they cover here that Alltel never did and that Verizon doesn't. Most of this had no service, a small portion of it had 2G GSM roaming (on CellularOne). Plenty of new 3G area, even in the last few months for my state at least.

As for the "fake 4G" thing. If you want to call it that, then you have to call Verizon LTE "fake 4G" also. No technology currently deployed meets the original meaning of "4G" (IMT-Advanced). "4G" is NOT and never has been an officially defined term, which the ITU clarified in officially recognizing that while 4G was widely understood to mean IMT-Advanced, it was not defined, and was being used to refer to evolved 3G technologies. Many people claimed the ITU redefined 4G. They didn't. They simply acknowledged that it was not a defined term, and that it was being used to refer to technologies that didn't meet the IMT-Advanced specifications.

Oh, Montana got a BUNCH of HSPA+ w/EB, Mark should be VERY happy!

Hardly. Just confused as heck. They still don't show they co-located on CellularOne's site in Condon, oddly enough. But they now show enhanced backhaul a lot of places. The problem is the "where's" are confusing as heck. Seeley Lake (isolated and remote but on the highway from Kalispell to Helena - the only place until recently that had service - remember how I said how much service increased along there) is now EB!!! But my town, Kalispell, isn't. Helena, where I spend a lot of time, isn't either. Missoula - maybe - can't tell from the map if the main sites IN Missoula are or if that's just spillover, certainly the whole area isn't. But it LOOKS like at least the U of M and downtown are. Will be interesting to see speeds next time I'm in Missoula. Ronan is EB (so what?) but Polson, just north and much larger, isn't. Great Falls, with a major military base, isn't. Chester in the middle of NOWHERE north of Great Falls near the Canadian border, is. Some sites around Billings are, but if you zoom in you see spots that aren't IN Billings suggesting that may just be spill over from around Billings. Bozeman (MSU home and a high-tech city for Montana) isn't, but Belgrade and much of the rural area outside Bozeman is. Butte isn't, but a lot of the rural highway south of Butte IS. Until you get to the next meaningful size town (Dillion).

So no, I'm not happy. Just confused as heck. NONE of that "enhanced backhaul" means diddley squat. It's all in very isolated, already fast due to low loads places. Billings and Missoula are the only two major cities that MIGHT have it and even then it looks just as likely to be spill in the mapping process from very rural surrounding areas. My guess? These are just microwave links that are just as easily upgraded to IP based gear (or may even have already been since it's fairly new gear and just not listed yet as "4G"? I've always got great speeds in Seeley Lake for example... and I've never been to Chester but people there have LOVED AT&T. I can't say I had that great experience in Ronan though, another of the new "4G" areas.

I see no new coverage anywhere I go and no meaningful "4G." I was much more excited last map update seeing coverage for a large area around and including Ovando, since that covers a LONG stretch of a road I travel frequently.

[ggore]

I am not getting involved in the debate over what is 4G and what isn't, and I'm just commenting on what the maps show. Whether the maps are correct or not I will also leave to others to decide.

[zephxiii]

The I-70 corridor east of Indianapolis is now fully covered in HSPA+ & EB all the way to ohio. My market in IN is now marked with EB....more HSPA coverage to come in Indiana and MI as well.

EDIT: I think i see some new down in AZ as well.