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Thread: In-depth: How do we fight the fakes/clones?

  1. #1
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    Question In-depth: How do we fight the fakes/clones?

    I've been wondering..Is it not possible to have a sticky where we list the fake/clone phones we come across on ebay (or somewhere else)? In this way, we can have a place where all the fake/clone information is stored and we can report them much faster to the authorities. I report every one of them when I see them on ebay but I believe it'd be more effective if we were to take collective action.

    8600 is already cloned, not to mention the Arte clones already started to pop.

    Just recently, I've come across some info on the fake Siroccos (most of which is gold). Apparently, these guys don't even use original 8800s (and convert them) anymore. They can use Nokia 6111s and flash them to look like a Sirocco. Consequently, *#0000# brings back RM-165 and everything else checks out. That's why you can find a gold Sirocco for so much less nowadays.

    There's got to be something we can do!

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    how do you tell a real luna from a fake?

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    Execution for those found to be selling fakes. Same with people who spam, and those who leave gum under seats at theatres.

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    Quote Originally Posted by laminator
    how do you tell a real luna from a fake?
    laminator,

    Greetings.

    It has been discussed before...

    http://howardforums.com/showthread.p...t#post10776602
    --

    HC - NO "i"
    I am NOT "the" HC, we are TWO different individuals!


    "If we amplify everything, we hear nothing!" - Jon Stewart, Comedian

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    Yea those Cect N95`s are pretty close, I`m thinking of getting one!

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    Question Why would people go for the counterfeits / knock-offs

    skatistic888,

    I believe it goes beyond just have the knowledge to differentiate the authentic than the counterfeiting / knock-off handsets...

    1. Why would people start looking for or picking up the knock-off handsets - especially to those so-called "high-end", "luxury" models, in the first place? I think LUST, GREED and MATERIALISM are parts of the problem. Some says it is also linked to age... No, I disagree because it is an observable facts in many other counterfeit products for ALL age groups and genders. Some people will go for the MOST features the handsets can offer, some people will just want to SHOW OFF the hot-out-the-press models when the regular inventory is sacred while some other will go for the BARGAIN, LEAST EXPENSIVE DEALS - REGARDLESS OF THE AUTHENTICITY! Until we can deal with our mindsets, rather paying MORE to get the authentic products may get in our way. That leads to...

    2. Where would people start looking for or picking up the knock-off handsets - especially to those not offered by the carriers? Questionable online auctions, classifieds, or brick-and-mortar retailers. Sure, we are not necessarily crooks by default and sometimes deals look "normal / unsuspicious" at all. However, I think if more people realize how TRUSTWORTHY of the points of sales are, then it will eliminate the risks to get the knock-offs. Then...

    3. How to tell if a deal is TRUSTWORTHY or not? There is no universal answer to that but I think we can ONLY RELY on the good REFERENCES FROM OUR TRUSTED CIRCLE MORE than just few positive feedbacks as well as studying more about the handset itself. Take the 8600 Luna, for example, there are blogs after blogs showing people how crafty the crooks are... http://justamp.blogspot.com/2008/01/...okia-8600.html These days with the advancement of the technology, abundance resources of low-cost manufacturing - especially in the "world's factories" like China, it is sad that some people would put them in the WRONG use. But we can also defend ourselves and minimize the risks by using the same resources available to us. Also, TRUST OUR INSTINCTS... if you feel uncomfortable or something in doubts for deal - be it obvious or not quite obvious - just PASS.

    I always stress the importance of getting the "real" thing. It is not simply a moral, ethical issue but more about OUR VALUES and PRINCIPLES. I am sure everyone can honestly ask OURSELVES if we could afford to buy something - especially to those who treat handset more than a communication tool.

  7. #7
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    I seny a few messages to sellers selling clones and i got a reply back.

    He was selling a gold Nokia 8800 as a Sirocco Gold, he said it was an honest mistake made by his workers. Alas, the listing was already finished by then.

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    Im trying my best to fight them, by making more people aware...

    http://gsi-r.vox.com/

    http://www.n95users.com/forum/genera...-review-6.html

    http://www.n95users.com/forum/115798-post54.html

    http://www.n95users.com/forum/market...ke-phones.html

    In the process of writting a detailed blog regarding the almost identical N95-2
    NokiaUsers.net

    http://mickyfin.vox.com/

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    HC - NO "i",
    I agree with all you said. We are one of very few people who can tell small differences in fakes/clones from the real things (e.g. in Luna 8600), we are rather in the safe zone when it comes to these.

    That being said, I've got a less problem when they're sold outright as fakes/clones. I know there's a totally different market for them, just as there's for bags. People who buy these products would never be able touch the real thing anyways.

    That's not my concern though. Simply put, some people are naive. Most of the time these products are marketed as "Same but this one is just made in China instead", and people jump on them. I am concerned about people who think they're getting the real thing and end up with a fake/clone.

    I guess it is best to use your judgment but as I said, some peope are just really really naive...

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    Quote Originally Posted by free_gas
    Yea those Cect N95`s are pretty close, I`m thinking of getting one!
    fakes/clones make no sense at all, and let me emphasize this again "no sense at all", when it comes to smartphones.

    Forget everything else, -the GPS you're not getting, the non-existent wi-fi, 5MP camera missing-, you are not getting an S60 operating system. You can't install any applications on that. It is simply a dumb phone, a very dumb phone, in an N95 case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by skatistic888
    HC - NO "i",
    I agree with all you said. We are one of very few people who can tell small differences in fakes/clones from the real things (e.g. in Luna 8600), we are rather in the safe zone when it comes to these.

    That being said, I've got a less problem when they're sold outright as fakes/clones. I know there's a totally different market for them, just as there's for bags. People who buy these products would never be able touch the real thing anyways.

    That's not my concern though. Simply put, some people are naive. Most of the time these products are marketed as "Same but this one is just made in China instead", and people jump on them. I am concerned about people who think they're getting the real thing and end up with a fake/clone.

    I guess it is best to use your judgment but as I said, some peope are just really really naive...
    skatistic888,

    I too always want to educate others - especially to those who are way too "innocent" or lack of the awareness.

    In my previous post, point #2 and #3 have addressed your concern regarding people who think they are getting the real thing but may end up with the knock-off.

    I want emphasize once more about the TRUSTWORTHINESS of the points of sales... If we ALL ONLY shop at TRUSTED sources, the chance of getting burnt is ALMOST NON-EXISTENT! Ever worry if you shop at Nokia Flagship Store, Carphone, the HoFo sponsors, or HoFo members whom you have known for a while?

    Sure, you may say but we probably do not have Nokia Flagship Stores or Carphone around, and the big boxes like Future Shop, Best Buy do not sell the models we want.

    Then, it brings back to my point #1... Ask OURSELVES honestly why we want that handset so bad and if we can actually afford to? Everyone, include myself, has the right to indulge and shop for a good deal is not a bad thing. However, in this info age, it is relatively easy to find out the the SPECIFICATIONS, FEATURES, EXPECTED PRICE RANGE of virtually everything! If a handset that we want is not available through authorized distribution channels where we live, it means we need to deal with the TRUSTED sources which import it from elsewhere. Often, it interprets HIGHER COST. Once again, can we afford to? Sure the same thing may cost less overseas but can we afford to pay for the airfare to get there, just buying a handset?

    If you go to Mississauga, there is a small mainstream mall on Central Parkway East (at Burnhamthrope East). There was a kiosk (I do not know if it is still around) selling iPods, cellphones - which some "innocent" buyers may fall for them! Once again, why would one shop for iPods there where more TRUSTED sources are around and why would one be so sure about he / she is getting an AUTHENTIC handset, which is officially not selling in this country by the manufacturer, in a mall and totally unfamiliar with - even among the cellphone freaks?

    The bottom line: there is NO universal answer but I think we could ALL START EXAMINING WITH OUR MINDSETS AND SHOPPING HABITS.

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    ^^^above^^^ watever howard says =)
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatistic888
    fakes/clones make no sense at all, and let me emphasize this again "no sense at all", when it comes to smartphones.

    Forget everything else, -the GPS you're not getting, the non-existent wi-fi, 5MP camera missing-, you are not getting an S60 operating system. You can't install any applications on that. It is simply a dumb phone, a very dumb phone, in an N95 case.
    Just for the look, and the cect N95 clone does play video, and is very very hard to distinguish from the original, if it was not for the cheap optics lens bezel...

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    well being a relative newbie here ill add my thoughts.

    a co-worker got a CECT iphone. he paid 200$ for it. it lasted a month. he sent it back and got another. that one lasted a week. now nothing. he paid postage and insurance to them back, and paying shipping for the "new" phone back. all in all i think he spent 300$ or so with expedited s/h, ins, etc.

    to me its a colossal freakin' waste. could have waited and saved and got the real deal. i guess it really is a vanity thing so the person can be bragging about having a copy of something and to top it off its a POS.

    i travel tons for leisure and work, ive been diving for eight years and get to hit some crazy places. ive seen copies of stuff from ipods to jordans and americans, etc snapping them up. in the philippines the outdoor markets have omega copies that are really nice if you want to drop 50$ for a 1200$ watch. phones, shoes, etc.

    too me quality is king. ive had pos cars, phones, clothes, etc. i worked hard to get where i am at in life, tons of school but its done. shopping for clothes at brooks brothers rather than old navy, yeah i will do that. its quality. if your broke and you cant afford clothes other than walmart, fine do what you can. but id rather buy something once than repeat the damn process over and over.

    its why im on this site. i wanted info from people who know the in's and out's of the phones im looking at. quality once vs a cluster fxxx of wasted time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by free_gas
    Just for the look, and the cect N95 clone does play video, and is very very hard to distinguish from the original, if it was not for the cheap optics lens bezel...
    free_gas,

    Greetings.

    Before I go on, please understand I am NOT here to judge you. However, I really want to understand your mindset and shopping behaviour.

    Can you be frank with us and share with us...

    1. Why would you not mind to or even consider to get a N95 knock-off? Of course, I acknowledge PRICE difference plays a big part. But, I mean if you can find a 2nd hand N95 in great shape - for just a little more than the knock-off, would you change your mind?

    2. How do you normally study / learn about cellphones? All cellphones - authentic makes and models or not - should at least make calls. By simply judging what a particular handset can do or has the same features like playing video (some knock-off can play EVEN more formats than the original), do you consider it as an incentive to go for the "more bangs for the buck"?

    3. Where do you usually shop for the handsets? I acknowledge that big box retail chains are not always carrying the "cool" cellphones and we have a "close system" in North America that handsets could only go through our carriers - even for GSM, increasing numbers of GSM carriers now put restriction on certain features or doing "exclusive" plans for exclusive models.

    Thank you for your sharing.

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